Rebane's Ruminations
December 2014
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George Rebane

Reports from Sydney (here) are the latest addition to a new dimension of threats from the world of Islam.  We have seen in Canada, the UK, the US, and now Australia how self-radicalized Muslims are emerging from the commonly viewed ‘moderate Islamic communities’ to plan and commit acts of jihadic terror in their adopted countries.  These terrorists have no formal relationship to established jihadist organizations that are publicly sworn to the destruction of our civilization, and its replacement with a most severe form of global Islam.

This class of lone wolf Muslim terrorist is always the hardest to detect and stop, especially in liberal societies of the west where today there is present an almost insane imperative to deny history and current evidence.  The delivered public wisdom is that the largely silent Muslim communities, already established in such host countries, share our horror and condemnation of the growing litany of ongoing terror that Islamists have spread to multiple continents worldwide.  Unfortunately, that is not the case.

One of the leading and more constructive voices in the west who warns us about the real mindset of Islam is Dr Tawfik Hamid, himself a former jihadist.  He has written and spoken extensively in the west’s leading media outlets such the WSJ and the NYT.  Years ago Dr Hamid started warning us about Islam and the dangerous politicized use of ‘Islamophobia’ (e.g. here).  Besides his own experience with radicalized Islam and its broadly accepted geo-strategic objectives, Hamid has brought forth evidence from Islam itself citing numerous surveys of Muslim attitudes (e.g. from Pew Research) both in the west and from ‘the Arab street’.

Hamid, along with other tolerant Muslim intellectuals, continue to paint a realistic picture of Islam’s relationship with the west.  An accessible compendium of such commentaries that seeks to inform us is available from ‘A symposium: What is Moderate Islam?’

I bring these reports to your attention not only in connection with the newly emerging ‘Islamist threat vector’, but also to remind some readers who have been critical of RR’s interpretation of what has really been going on between Islam and the west during the recent decades.  We are closer than ever to identifying the real geo-strategic threat to the west from radicalizing Islam (see also Kissinger’s World Order) without which we have been flailing ineffectively in what we mistakenly call our “war against terror”.  I believe we can begin winning again only after we realize the true nature of the conflict in which we are engaged.

[30dec14 update]  And one of the west’s greatest statesmen, historians, and wartime leaders Sir Winston Churchill penned and delivered these words in an 1899 history book when he was already a decorated veteran and journalist.  His prophetic insights about Islam (then Mohammedanism) – "No stronger retrograde force exists in the world" – echo stronger than ever across the intervening century.  (H/T to correspondent)

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.  The effects are apparent in many countries, improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement, the next of its dignity and sanctity.  The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.  Individual Muslims may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.

(Churchill W., The River War (First Edition,Vol II, pgs 248-250), London)

[4jan15 update]  For more on what moderate Islamic leaders are saying about Islam's support of its radical factions, please see 'Scattershots – 4jan15'.

Posted in , ,

191 responses to “Islamophobia 2.0 (updated 4jan15)”

  1. Paul Emery Avatar

    Walt
    If you would like to know the extent of public funding KVMR call the station 265 9075 and talk to the General Manager or Business Manager. You can also contact the Board of Directors by mail or attend a meeting. I will not get into discussing KVMR business on this or any blog.
    Walt we have a 3-5 Trillion bill for our adventures in Iraq. What did we gain for that? What resources in treasure and blood should we budget for these tasks that you deem necessary? If you read my response to the question it read “our streets with rare exceptions” WWll was an exception as was direct action against al-Qaeda but not much else. What limits do you impose on our use of military?
    George What “level of military contentions” do you see as appropriate. Who should pay for this? Do you include Iraq in you scope of actions?

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  2. Walt Avatar

    News flash Paul,, Al-Qaeda is alive and well and is now known as ISIS. The Taliban is alive and well, and now a few numbers less than last week. They just tried to attack our troops again.
    So how much genocide will you accept “over there” in the name of Ala?
    Good thing your “views” are in the shallow minority.

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  3. Paul Emery Avatar

    Well Walt, what in your view should we be doing as of right now? Where were our troops when they attacked us?

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  4. Walt Avatar

    That’s easy. Breaking all their toys, shooting anyone with a gun, destroying any weapon found. Exactly what we did in WWII. But we are NOT doing that.
    We have a small contingent at the Baghdad airport. That’s were the latest gun fight took place. They came looking for a fight and lost.
    Again.. You take your freedoms for granted.

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  5. Paul Emery Avatar

    Okay Walt. That’s a solution. Do you have any idea about how many ground troops that would require since it would be door to door town by town combat over the entire region? How much would that cost and how long will it take? What would it take to maintain the gains? These are serious questions that would have to be addressed before that path is taken.

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  6. Walt Avatar

    It would have been a hell of a lot cheaper if our troops didn’t have to do their jobs with one arm tied behind their backs. Or give ground back one it was taken, just to be retaken over and over, and at the cost of extra lives. Take it and keep it like we have done in previous wars. But that’s not the LIB way. Thank You LIB politicians playing armchair generals. When LIBS run the show,, the wars are lost. We should have taken that oil in compensation. But we didn’t.
    We made Germany pay for the costs of WWI.. They just made the final payment.
    Funny how a person that is subsidized gripes about the cost to “other people”.

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  7. Walt Avatar

    For those that just hate torture,,
    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/12/19/isis-reportedly-selling-christian-artifacts-turning-churches-into-torture-1596164509/
    Christian persecution is alive and well. But if anyone dare speak ill of Muslims in any way shape or form,,, ( and to think we had to wear white gloves while handling the Koran at GITMO as not to offend the prisoners)

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  8. Paul Emery Avatar

    So Walt our “conquest” would have to be virtually the entire Middle East. Afganistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Libya, parts of Africa……. How far do we go in our occupation and conquest ? Do we go it alone or do we have international partners?

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  9. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Walt, you nailed it with the ISIS torturing Christians link. While y’all debate the Iraq wars, the merits of wars, and all that stuff, the real issues emerge.
    Since the fall (weakening) of secular governments in that region including the results of the Arab Spring, the true nature of the Beast has emerged. It is all about Islam is superior to everything. While not quite an ethic cleansing going on, it’s more of a Holy War against non Muslins and the wrong kind of Muslims. In fact, governments of the sheikdoms, Turkey, Syria, Libya, Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq, etc represent the enemy to ISIS. They are either the wrong kind of Muslims or not under the one big Muslin government controlled by….The Muslim Brotherhood. The evil Great Satan is part of the Holy War cleansing of course. Anyone who does not believe in the right kind of Islam is the enemy. Religious cleansing if you will. Moderate Muslims have much to be worried about.
    While we rehash “Bush started it” and drone strikes and civilian casualties and the merits/horrors of War, let’s look at the bigger picture. They declared War on every single Muslim and Arab government that is practicing the wrong like of Islam as well as the Great Satan. Do you think for one moment the Kurds or the Hindus or Christians, or moderate Muslims will be left in peace? This is a Holy War declared on the World. Once they get their house in order and all populations in the region subdued, they will be expanding. That is the big picture. You cannot negotiate with a rattlesnake, nor will understanding them and playing nice make the leopard change its spots.
    Walt’s link is worth reposting.
    http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/12/20/isis-reportedly-selling-christian-artifacts-turning-churches-into-torture-1596164509/

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  10. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Todd and many of those who comment here on RR,
    Love the country and hate the government, coming back around to the different forms of libertarianism. Most who claim to be libertarians here are American style libertarians or objectivist libertarian (main focus is taxation and regulation on industry) or George along with a few others are neoliberal libertarians (conservatarian). I am first and foremost a civil libertarian but in the big picture a social libertarian.
    Utah Phillips- Anarchy
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6t6nzLX9gF4

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  11. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 116am – the feel-good philosophy of people like Utah Phillips has a fatal flaw in that it doesn’t account for how humans really behave in co-operative societies that are larger than a handful of members. In this Utah is not unique, but joins those subscribing to the utopic visions preached by collectivists going on two centuries now. And the problem has always been that such desirable social orders never come about through people’s voluntary desires, but always need the guns of the elites to whip them into correct compliance. Examples of failures, along with the deaths of tens of millions, abound.

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  12. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    No Ben Emery, I am a conservative man and I really really like what I stand for. I think you fall into the trap you allege others do and you “generalize” someone’s ideology. For instance, I am for a woman’s hegemony over her own body, but I just don’t want tax money going for abortion. Ho about you Ben Emery?
    My point is you have a distorted view of others and try your best to pigeon hole them into someplace you can judge. That is not very Christian of you. So, though your are a tremendously flawed man, I still wish you good luck and health and a Merry Christmas.

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  13. Walt Avatar

    Give it a rest Paul, We are not a “conquering” nation. Which brings us back around to another of my questions to you that you flat out ignored. How come we didn’t keep Mexico,, Japan, and most of Europe? We “conquered” them,, as you put it. Instead, we “gave” it all back and paid to rebuild those that attacked us. Kinda shoots your idea full of holes.
    You may care to revisit history, instead of trying to revise it.
    As for Utah,, I really like his early work. Other than that, his politics sucked.
    He started serving up that “Moose turd pie” he used to sing about.

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  14. Paul Emery Avatar

    Walt writes:
    “Take it and keep it like we have done in previous wars.”
    If that’s not “conquering” what is? You are a very confused person for sure.
    George writes:
    ” And the problem has always been that such desirable social orders never come about through people’s voluntary desires, but always need the guns of the elites to whip them into correct compliance.”
    Can you tell me how that process has happened in Denmark, Sweden, Australia, Switzerland ,,,,, all of which have collectivist social programs including universal health care. That is a very careless and unfounded statement George that has no examples in recent history to verify your conclusion.

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  15. Walt Avatar

    Now that’s rich.. Take what I said, and twist it to fit your needs.
    It’s so far out of context it isn’t even close.
    Now answer the question on why we didn’t keep Japan and Mexico. That’s what “conquering nations” do. Do you forget we marched into Mexico City? Forget “Big Moe” sat in the harbor of Tokyo? Read some history Paul.
    Ahhh, Who an I kidding… If it doesn’t fit Paul’s warped line, or can be revised to fit LIB logic,, NO answer will be forthcoming.
    So tell us we didn’t rebuild Japan after the war. ( that would be WWII)
    Let’s hear why Japan didn’t invade the Main land U.S. ( But they did mess with us in Alaska…Did you know that Paul?)
    Should have done more studying and less protesting back in the day. Facts out way opinion and feelings.

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  16. driveByPoster Avatar
    driveByPoster

    “Can you tell me how that process has happened in Denmark, Sweden, Australia, Switzerland ,,,,, all of which have collectivist social programs including universal health care.”
    I suppose because they are filled (or used to be filled) with Danes, Swedes, Australians, and Swiss people.
    That’s too glib an answer, though. All of those places were quite violent, and the first two were imperial powers, until fairly recently.
    If you can answer why a Swiss citizen is reasonably well behaved, and most of the so-called third world isn’t, then you’ll really accomplish something. I do think, for what it’s worth, that those who see an answer in top-down social policy are probably barking up the wrong tree.

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  17. Walt Avatar

    And now the Swedes have a BIG problem with their growing Muslim population.
    Munticulty-ism has jumped up and bit them in the ass as well.
    Paul is on one of his “look over there! I just can’t deal with the facts.” kicks again.

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  18. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Well, all I can saw is our peacenik libhole comrades run Detroit and Chicago based on the religion of hope. And ran it into the ground they did. Socialist Marxists always hope their way will work. Hasn’t yet, but euphoria utopias are a’comin. Hope and change, yes we can!!
    Christmas greeting to all libholes, Chicago style. What some cheese with that whine?
    http://news.yahoo.com/christmas-chicago-style-mayor-rahm-son-robbed-front-204112861.html

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  19. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 451pm – The guns don’t come out until the people want to go back to what they had before. In the countries you mention, that has yet to happen, but it’s a’comin’, especially as they attempt to politically correctly settle their Muslim immigrants. In the countries where people have wanted to return to their previous governance, then that’s called counter-revolution and ruthlessly suppressed. In such lands the double dummies have never seen it coming and are always surprised when the doors behind them are sealed shut. About half of our electorate today find themselves in those ranks – dangerous times.

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  20. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    Can you give me a contemporary example of your first sentence. “The guns don’t come out until the people want to go back to what they had before.” You have added the immigration element to the question of the demise of collectivist economics into bayonets in the streets. At least you agree that it has not yet happened. Just give me one modern example that I can look at. And driveby we are talking about contemporary countries that have collectivism as part of their economics and governance not mid-evil times. George believes it will all go to shit but he has no examples.

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  21. driveByPoster Avatar
    driveByPoster

    “we are talking about contemporary countries that have collectivism as part of their economics ”
    Probably ‘I am’ rather than ‘we are’, is a more correct form.
    In any case, both the Swiss and the Danes had a civil war in the mid 19th century. What you might think of as European countries are nearly all fairly modern constructs. Modern social and political beliefs would be quite mysterious to someone your grandfather’s age or older. The take-away might be that there is no inevitable path to history.
    The short form of what I view as mistaken thinking is that somehow you can recast a population into Swiss people by giving (or imposing) similar laws and institutions. It’s a form of cargo cult reasoning and a bit tedious to boot.

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  22. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 1124pm – With your demand for “contemporary examples” you again seem to push the, in my opinion, deadly and erroneous idea that if it happened in the past then it will not happen again. Of the many countries that had populist revolutions and governance changing ‘elections’, almost all of them anticipated a much more liberal future than their new rulers forced on them. And any that even made a peep to protest and argue for a gentler governance were immediately marched to the wall or gallows. Cuba is again in the news, and serves as an excellent example. When he bamboozled the people into accepting him as an “agrarian reformer”, he soon changed his stripe to communism and the executions began in which cadres of anyone considered as having the talents to provide opposition leadership or support were simply killed. This went on for months in 1960-61.
    But according to you and yours, none of this can happen again.

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  23. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    The situations are completely different between Cuba and say Denmark, which you say is scheduled for bayonets in the streets because of their collectivist policies. By your numeration that includes ALL nations with progressive governments which is quite a stretch by anyone’s imagination. It sure makes any reasonable observer to say “well oh well” at your general expostulations.
    Well Walt perhaps I misunderstood what you meant by “take and keep”. Please explain. Also since our misadventure in Iraw cost around 3 Trillion how much do you estimate it would cost to “take and keep” in the middle east to achieve your desired results. Who will pay for that? How long will it take? Whats our exit strategy?

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  24. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/world/1.631956
    http://www.press-report.net/immigration-issues-in-sweden. Looks like them Swedish meatballs are losing some of their flavor.

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  25. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 946am – Your zero-one debating policy leaves little room for the reality of nuance. Denmark “scheduled for bayonets” ??!! But I do think that things will change when/if the US removes its military umbrella protecting Europe. Then immigration and the economies will drive the social temperatures, and more so the more they are centrally planned and controlled. Ref also Mr Tozer’s 947am, and George Friedman’s piece on contemporary Russia.
    http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/viewing-russia-inside#axzz3MSjFgeIl

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  26. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    “But according to you and yours, none of this can happen again.” — The likelihood of such thing happening in a modern democratic country is probably very small. However history tells us that dictators are often replaced with the same. Africa is a prime example and the only reason some Middle Eastern countries have avoided this outcome is because of strong monarchies or strong dictators. As we have seen in Iraq, Libya, Egypt, and elsewhere, take out the power and chaos fills the vacuum. The destabilization of middle eastern politics, primarily caused by US intervention and destruction, will eventually spread to the entire region taking out the Saudis and other monarchies with it as happened a couple of centuries earlier in Europe. It is just the evolution of culture. Eventually most people will tire of monarchial/colonial rule and strive for self-determination. Once the monarchs and colonials are removed, the next step will be to go after the power of ruling corporatist elites who have simply replaced ‘rule by birthright’ with ‘rule by bank account’. The dream and the promise of the American Revolution didn’t end with George Washington, it continues to spread. The only problem is that the corporatists have lost control (like what happened in Cuba) over the politics of the revolutionaries.

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  27. Walt Avatar

    Paul is a lost cause. A melon as dense as depleted uranium. He calls the U.S. a “conquering nation”, yet can’t or won’t say a word on why “we” didn’t keep enemy lands/nations we defeated in war,but instead, rebuilt and handed back to the people of those lands. Nope,, just NOT going to go there. If the U.S. is/was as Paul insinuates, we would be “ruling”
    most of the globe today.
    Islam on the other hand , is out to do just that, and they are using the mambi pambi, munticulty, “we can all get along” BS to their advantage to do just that. And their “holy men” have even said as much.
    Have the so called peace loving Muslims piped up against the aggressors of their faith?
    Hardly a peep. It’s against the faith to do so.(it seems) The passive Muslims die at the hands of radical Muslims. I give you ISIS as proof.
    Paul and Joe need to take a good hard look at the meaning of jehaud. ( that means “holy war”.. war against all other religions, and ways of life.. Including ours)

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  28. George Rebane Avatar

    JoeK 1004am – good arguments. RR has long argued that autocracy cum tyranny are very stable forms of governance (agreeing with your observation that “dictators are often replace with the same”). Moreover, I believe that such tyrannies will be abetted by technology advances that support the monitoring and tracking of large numbers of people, ideas, and communications. It is hard to conceive of corporatists being able to overcome their desire for shorter term gains which is usually anathema for their longer term ability to remain in control. (By corporatists, I mean putatively non-governmental enterprises that still require the government gun to operate and grow.)

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  29. Walt Avatar

    Well Joe may want co conciser the fist “uprising” of “WE the People”. I give him the “Bundy
    incident”. Our government working with foreign interests in a “land swap” ( We will allow you to build on THIS piece of government land,, and we take the rights of use of another piece of government land in exchange…. A Harry Reid dirty trick)
    ” The People” would have NONE of it. And just who prevailed?
    If it wasn’t for the 2ND Amendment Joe,, we would be in a government police state by now.
    ( A Progressive police state) Now the plan is to turn the “have nots” against the “haves”.
    Or class warfare if you like. LIBS are still promising the “have nots” with government handouts. ( Just like in good ol’ Commie lands..How did that work out?)
    Cuba is taxing at 98%.. Maybe that’s what Lefties would like here.

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  30. Paul Emery Avatar

    Walt
    Back to a central question. Under you’re “take and keep” Mid-Eastern policy how much would it cost, who would pay for it and how long would we “keep” those soverign nations before releasing them from U.S control citing WWll catch and release policies you appropriately describe.
    Well George at last you’re talking real world not whirl winding “theories” of the future. Yes, wnen-if the umbrella of U.S. cover is lifted in Western Europe many things can happen you’re theory being one of them. With the Repub wing of the fat bird currently in fashion do you see that happening in the predictable future?

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  31. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    I wonder who the resident liberals and self hating Americans blame for the Taliban killing 140 kids last week. I bet it must be those Americans?

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  32. George Rebane Avatar

    Re the next two years – all the world’s bad guys will want to make hay while Obama is still in charge. While Obama is trying to burnish his legacy, things may get very dicey at the world’s hot spots. (We haven’t even talked about China’s ‘opportunities’.)

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  33. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    Cuba is taxing at 98%.. Maybe that’s what Lefties would like here.– 2% of a billion dollars is still $20 million. Could you live on that? If it takes a 98% tax on the super wealthy to put the country back on its feet than so be it. A consumer based economy (70% of US economy base) needs people who have money to spend. The wealthy in America now have as much or more wealth, compared to the rest of the population, than any other time in our history rivaling the pre-crash roaring 20s in discrepancy. We all know what the outcome of that situation was.

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  34. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    So Paul Emery, what about Tibet? Can you figure a way for their slavery being blamed on the USA and Bush? Seems I have not heard your detailed piece on Tienanmen Square. Remember those kids and protesters. TANK MAN? All murdered by the Chinese Commies. Please feel free to discuss these issues with the readers here. I am all ears on how Bush/Cheney were responsible. Oh and Rwanda. Give us your input on American hegemony that caused the murder of a million blacks by a black tribe? All ears here.

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  35. Walt Avatar

    ” Keep and take” is what you do in war. Figure it out Paul. You don’t fight over a given hill or town just to pull out and let the enemy re-occupy, just to go back the next day or week to do it all over again.
    NOW smart guy,, it your turn. “If” we area conquering nation as you say, how come we gave it all back? Your back to your dodging the hard questions.
    If we had it your way, we wouldn’t have lifted a finger until Japan and Germany landed on U.S. soil, and the fighting was in the streets of S.F. and N.Y.
    As for your idiotic “cost” crap,, Since when do LIBS care about cost? They have been REAL GOOD at running printing presses 24/7,, and adding decimal points and zeros on computer ledgers. ( Instant money)

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  36. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    Cato Institute scholar Doug Bandou writes:
    “This time ten years ago the grand Iraqi cakewalk had begun. American military forces were racing toward victory. The world was going to be transformed.
    But not in the way President George W. Bush and his top officials imagined. Invading Iraq turned out to be one of Washington’s greatest strategic mistakes.”
    What’s to prevent a future Republican administration from making the same tragic mistake if placed in control?
    Briefly Todd bad stuff happens in the world. Do you think it’s our responsibility to right all the wrongs on the planet? We spent 3 Trillion in Iraq and thousands of lives and what did we gain?
    http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/death-misery-debt-iraqs-unintended-conquest-america

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  37. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Paul Emery 1:09 PM above.
    You are tiresome Paul. I ask you questions and your response is always the same. No response. But you retort with a question. Why not answer my questions about the Chinese nd Tibet? Is it because you have nothing smart to say or you actually don’t know anything?
    Regarding your new found love for the CATO Institute. It is a libertarian organization of which they appear a middle of the road group. Some things we both probably agree with and some not so much. You would be better off making your points by using the American Enterprise Institute if you are trying to gain some traction.

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  38. Walt Avatar

    After WWII, up until the late 60’s it’s we the U.S. that kept the world at peace.( for the most part) If it wasn’t for us Paul Communism would rule supreme. That’s a fact.
    If things are SO rough for ya’ Paul, denounce your citizenship and hit the road for the likes of Cuba, N.Korea, or Putin land. You seem to like the way they do things a lot better than things are run here. There is always China. Just because you like your “beauty” of N.C. isn’t a good enough excuse not to go.
    Most of those places are anti capitalist. You should love it there. Gov. will make all the choices for you. From your job, to where you live. Everyone is equally poor. Just they way Progressives here, want things.
    That should be our new export. Progressives. Instead of “them” trying to change things here, send “them” to where it already exists. ( Somehow I get the idea that just won’t go over vary well)
    But thanks to today’s Progressive LIB, The U.S. isn’t at the top of the list of “freedom nations”. Now THAT is something that needs to change. That “change” has already started, with the last three elections. It’s been open season at the election booth on Progressiveism.

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  39. Walt Avatar

    Wasn’t it Egypt that “O” tried to meddle in? He managed to get one Son of a bitch, ( but he was OUR Son of a bitch and kept things on a somewhat even keel) removed from office and had a goon from his (“O”‘s) pals from the Muslim Brotherhood ( a terrorist group) installed as the new leader. Well that didn’t last long,, “the people” saw him as the bastard he was and forced him out.
    One of those recent events “someone” was demanding evidence to.
    YEE of short, selective memory…

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  40. Paul Emery Avatar

    Sure Todd
    Bush and Cheney we not responsible for Tibet, Tienanmen Square, Rwanda….Question answered?

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  41. Walt Avatar

    Hay Paul!! How well do you think those “FREE TIBET” bumper stickers would go over in Beijing? Care to try it? As they say,,, ” talk is cheap”.

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  42. Walt Avatar

    Forget Carter and the Iran hostage crisis? That ended because they knew full well Reagan would have none of it, and would deal with them the second he took the oath of office.
    Unlike today, where they know “O” is spineless, and actually has a Muslim background.
    ( just won’t attack one of their own…. and really hasn’t) So one can say “O” is the Father of ISIS. He has allowed them to slaughter and grow unchecked. And a few token drone strikes isn’t going to slow them down.(and hasn’t)

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  43. Paul Emery Avatar

    Walt
    Can you attempt to speculate on how much your slam ‘um policy in the Middle East would cost in treasure and blood, who would pay for it and how long it would last?

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  44. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Paul, every time a US President signals in a opaque way backing in some fashion (usually moral support) some population opposing a ruthless regime, all hell breaks loose and the civilian opposition is crushed. So, in a way, we are responsible for millions of deaths just by an offhanded remark by someone sitting in the Oval Office.
    After Desert Storm, the Kurds took George H W Bush’s words and started an uprising. They got crushed until we started doing the UN and NATO backed air patrols over the Kurdish populations, which ironically got us back in there after Suddam’s violations of the no fly zones, but I digress. Those poor Ahabs tribes in southern Iraq were not so lucky immediately after Gulf 1. They no longer exist, save a handful. We signaled we would protect them. Words are kinda important.
    Remember Clinton’s off the cuff remark about loosening the rules for Haitian immigrants right after he was sworn in? That instant poor Haitians started building rafts and hundreds were lost a sea. We are responsible for that loss of life.
    I am quite certain the reader can name many more better examples than those above. In a way we are responsible for the expansion of the Ahab Spring as Obama invited the Muslim Brotherhood and their lovely hoods to his Cairo blather speech over the objections of the Egyptian Prez. Then we turned our back on the Egyptian Pres and offered moral support for his opponents. We are responsible……
    When a US President speaks, his words speak louder than actions. Deaths follow. But, Clinton was such a great politician he mastered the “what I said is not what I meant” without any blame for bodies floating out there in shark infested waters.
    Yes, we have blood on our hands because of the words of a President. Just like the recent slaughter of the Christians in the Kurdish areas we signaled we would aid. “Ha ha ha, just joking” quipped our current Administration.

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  45. Walt Avatar

    Back to that lame, pure speculation ? Now grow a pair and answer my previous, multiply asked question. ( I know.. NOT happening.) Yup,, you sure painted yourself into a corner this time.

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  46. Walt Avatar

    Speaking of cost,, how bout using a half million dollar missile on a terrorist tank, instead of a 1000 dollar beater Toyota ? Nope,, “O” and Co. won’t allow that. ( The White House picks the targets. NOT the military.) No attacks of terrorist troop concentrations.
    Nope,, None of that either.
    Just hit Youtube Paul,, There is plenty of leaked attack footage.

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  47. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Can’t argue with a brick Walt.

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  48. Walt Avatar

    Todd. It’s proving the fact that he can’t back up what he says with ANY facts.
    None… ZIP…. Nada…. He’s full of BS, and Lord knows where he gets it from.
    SO many easy questions to him and of his ideals,, yet no way to back up the claims.
    When cornered, he skedaddles, or changes the subject, and the tried and true ” But look over here!”
    Yes, a “common ditch digger” can best “the Great one” (ha) of Nevada City more times than not. ( it sure must suck when that happens)

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