Rebane's Ruminations
December 2014
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George Rebane

[This is the addended transcript of my regular KVMR commentary broadcast on 3 December 2014.]

I intended this to be a wrap-up on the Ferguson riots, but sadly there is no wrap possible, because Ferguson is just the latest chapter in the marathon effort to fundamentally transform America.  So all we can do is pause here and take stock of recent happenings with the Michael Brown shooting by Officer Darren Wilson in Ferguson, Missouri on 9 August last.

Michael Brown was a product of our broken black culture.  He was an underachiever with an attitude, a racist, and on that day, a criminal.  He met his end by having the audacity to walk down the center of a trafficked street and challenge a policeman on patrol responding to a 911 about a convenience store robbery in the neighborhood.  It turned out the robbery was committed by Brown, a fact then not known by Wilson.  The criminal grand jury was presented all the evidence about the shooting, which it considered for over 12 weeks before concluding that Officer Wilson shot Brown in the line of duty, and the case required no indictment for a subsequent trial.


However, to those with agendas that far overarched the town of Ferguson, this was a tragedy not to be wasted.  To put things in perspective, we consider that blacks murder almost 5,400 people annually, and whites murder almost 4,400.  Given that blacks make up 13% and whites 63% of the population, blacks kill people, overwhelmingly each other, at a rate at least six times higher than do whites.  Over the last 40 years of government programs and transfer payments, black crime rates have soared while their families were decimated.  The resulting despair and misery in their neighborhoods have become the enduring national ‘poster child’ that have kept progressive vote-buying policies and programs in high gear.  So when a white cop is reported shooting an unarmed black teen-ager, there is hay to be made regardless of the facts, the jurisdictions involved, or the legal due process followed.

The Ferguson incident had to support the narrative that the shooting was prima facie evidence of white-on-black racism still alive and well in the country, a racism that must be continually acknowledged, and a racism that must give rise to ever more investigations, oversights, wealth transfers, and special race-based remedies for the aggrieved and the alleged offenders.  Our federal government was quick to draw attention to all those necessities through the personal appeals of President Obama and his Attorney General Eric Holder.  Holder flew down to make sure that no one misunderstood the nationally significant incident that was now being manufactured from a confrontation between a criminal youth with an attitude and an officer of the local police.

From there the commissioned riots were expanded and inflamed by the ever-willing media.  Some lamestream outlets like CNN even attempted to misreport the riots as peaceful spontaneous demonstrations, while they tried to keep the burning cars and buildings out of their video shots.  Nevertheless, enough thousands of useful idiots could be and were assembled in over a hundred cities to dutifully riot, burn, and plunder while shouting ‘Hands up, don’t shoot!’ – itself a manufactured mantra that according to the grand jury had nothing to do with what happened in Ferguson.  The show had to go on, and we have yet to hear the last of it.

Why?  Because for no apparent reason other than to inspire continuing dissatisfaction with the current national order, the federal government stepped in to launch an investigation and potential prosecution of Officer Wilson for – seatbelts please – for violating Michael Brown’s civil rights.  And then to launch an add-on investigation to see if the Ferguson police practices had racial overtones which might require more federal regulations to saddle police departments across the land.  And why all this after judicial due process determined that the shooting was justified in the line of duty?  Well, it’s the agenda stupid, it’s the agenda.

As I reflect on this insane tragedy and try to put it into some reasonable perspective, the question occurs to me – are those hoodlums torching cars and buildings, and gleefully carrying merchandize out of neighborhood stores; are they trying achieve the same American dream that you and I are working daily to maintain in our country?  I cannot answer for you, but my own answer is a definite NO.  They are nothing like me or mine, and they have a very different direction in mind for our land, the progress along which their elite leaders are doing everything they can with the shooting in Ferguson.

My name is Rebane, and I also expand on this and related themes on georgerebane.com where the addended transcript of this commentary is posted with relevant links, and debated extensively.  However my views are not necessarily shared by KVMR.  Thank you for listening.

[Addendum]  The one-sidedness of the Ferguson shooting is what infuriates the millions who seek to inform themselves.  The fraction of blacks shot to death in the St Louis area by white police is 2%.  Yet scumbags like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson fly around the country during these occasions doing their best to convince their constituents that white cops shooting black kids is an epidemic.  An epidemic that needs to be stopped by the most dramatic of street outpourings.

What is more reprehensible to me is that the Sharptons and Jacksons are lauded by liberal leaders.  That their personal lives are such that they would lack any moral credentials in less disadvantaged public forums is totally papered over by the national progressive leadership.  They are seen and celebrated in congressional conclaves and White House gathering to address or acknowledge this social problem or that.  And sadder yet is when some of their real credentials leak out to their constituents, then those are taken as confirmation that all are birds of a feather, and that it’s not only OK but ‘normal’ to do and say the things such degraded public persons do and say.

Now I believe that all police killings should become a detailed matter of public record.  However, that is not the case today.  Nationally there are about 18,000 law enforcement agencies, and all of them report their officer killings to the FBI at their pleasure.  The FBI attempts to keep records on such shootings, but an analysis by WSJ staff (reported here) discovered that during recent years there were actually 45% more police justifiable homicides than in the FBI tally.  Whenever government kills, it should become a matter of open public record so that we can keep tabs on the trends that move Leviathan.  All should know that governments in modern times have been the biggest killers of their own citizens.  Governments have killed more of their own than have died in all the wars (here and here).

[4dec14 update]  ‘Staten Island cigarette vendor Eric Garner was killed by the NYPD on 17 July 2014.’  ‘Lifelong criminal Eric Garner was caught selling black market goods on Staten Island on 17 July 2014, and died while resisting arrest by officers of the NYPD.’

From what we know now of the Garner case, buttressed primarily by the video (chokehold, aftermath) of his arrest and death, and the grand jury’s verdict exonerating the officer involved, I throw in my own two cents worth here.

1. The Ferguson and Staten Island cases involved totally different encounters with their respective victims Brown and Garner.

2. From the arrest video it does not appear that Mr Garner resisted arrest; the police assaulted him before there was any physical evidence of any resistance (e.g. his hands were already in the air), although there may have been a verbal exchange indicating otherwise.

3. Mr Garner’s takedown was a clumsy affair with any attempt at a carotid hold immediately slipping into a visible choke hold.  Nevertheless, the coroner indicated that his windpipe had not been crushed or suffered permanent damage.

4. From his arrest record Garner appears to have been a lifelong, unsuccessful, petty criminal reduced to selling individual cigarettes on the black market.

5. The grand jury presumably studied the arrest video and its aftermath in detail.  Using that and other evidence presented, it decided not to indict Officers Daniel Pantaleo and Justin Damico.

6. Since choke holds by police are illegal, there had to be extenuating evidence which made this potentially unnecessary and clearly botched takedown exculpable.  Else, in my opinion, the grand jury made a grievous mistake.

7. There is no evidence that the Garner case and the Brown case had any relation, especially being connected by protester allegations that both are part of a systematic nationwide vendetta by white police against innocent blacks.

8. We are told that the transcripts of the grand jury hearings will be made public soon.  I am willing to wait until that information comes in.

[6dec14 update]  Having watched the Staten Island video over 20 times, many in freeze frame, I am more disturbed than ever at how the NYPD handled the situation.  Not only did Mr Garner offer no resistance, there was absolutely no immediancy to the entire situation.  Mr Garner was a petty criminal selling individual cigarettes – doing business as a willing seller with willing buyers who happen to approach him.  Who was aggrived in these transactions?  Most certainly not the buyer or seller or the local community – it was the state.  The state was denied its pound of flesh in the transactions, and therefore its apparatchiks went into thoughtless action just because they could.

Since there was no immediacy involved, if the cops on scene thought Mr Garcia was a bit slow in compliance (not evident from the video), then take your time.  Pull up a chair, grab a soft drink and talk to the man and explain the matter to him in plain language while all parties let the heat of encounter dissipate.  Hell, take fifteen minutes to chat about it; Garcia was not going to go anywhere or hurt anyone.  So yes, the NYPD needs a lot of retraining if these cops were exemplars of New York's finest.  They need to crank up their situational awareness so that they can tell when it's time to use peremptory force or not.

[8dec14 update]  And now for the expected politically incorrect coda to this post, let's consider the matter of white police killed by blacks.  These occur quietly across the country with no protests, no AG visits, no outrage from black leaders (nor even whites), and, of course, no national news coverage.  Here are just four recent ones picked up by a blogger.  (H/T to reader).

Posted in , , ,

112 responses to “Ferguson Wrap-up (8dec14 update)”

  1. RL Crabb Avatar

    I’ve kept my mouth shut concerning the Ferguson incident. I wasn’t there. The eyewitness accounts were not too reliable. We saw the video from the convenience store, but that still doesn’t tell me what actually happened in the car. The amount of misinformation from all sides of the media was overwhelming and emotionally charged. Still, the grand jury saw the evidence and rendered a judgement.
    But now, with a similar decision in the Eric Garner case, you have to wonder if there isn’t something terribly wrong with the system as it now exists. Especially since we have a video of the entire event. Should Garner have been choked to death for selling cigarettes on the street? Should no one be held accountable for overreacting? And why was the person who shot the video charged? What does it take to indict a cop?

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  2. Walt Avatar

    The liar in Chief strikes again. He has stuck his nose in every incident, now pipes up with this nose growing line of BS.
    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2014/12/03/Obama-on-Garner-My-Tradition-is-Not-to-Remark-on-Cases
    “President Barack Obama claimed that he does not involve himself in such controversies. “My tradition is not to remark on cases where there may still be an investigation,” he said. ”
    RL… As for Ferguson, I do believe they made the right call. “O”, Holder and the race bait brothers ( Sharpton and Jackson) The gas on the fire. Remember,, in Grand Jury investigations, there is no “defense” att. looking out for the cop.(or anyone else for that matter) It’s one sided. Holder is still trying to find a way to hang this guy.
    What went down today is a different matter. An arrest is an arrest. There is no “we will come back later when you calm down.”
    As to your question,, Well,,, I don’t know. Maybe what applies to you and me. Intent?
    How many home owners get indicted for protecting their home with a gun? ( plenty)
    Criminals these days have more rights than we do. Hell.. The rioters won’t even get charged. Not even the kid’s step Dad for inciting violence.
    “O” and Co. have pushed just being Black, makes one a victim just because of ones color.
    If A White guy gets killed by a person of color, it never a hate crime. But it sure is if it’s the other way around. That is now automatic.

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  3. Bob Hobert Avatar
    Bob Hobert

    Reference RL 0709 pm “Should Garner have been choked to death for selling cigarettes on the street?” I am a late comer to this latest story so I started reading this evening. Here’s what I have found right off –
    “Garner did not die of asphyxiation. The preliminary autopsy showed no damage to Garner’s windpipe or neck bones”
    “So what was Pantaleo doing? He was applying a submission hold, which is not barred by the NYPD, and is designed to deprive the brain of oxygen by stopping blood flow through the arteries. So say the experts on submission holds.”
    “According to Garner’s friends, he had several health issues: diabetes, sleep apnea, and asthma so severe that he had to quit his job as a horticulturist for the city’s parks department. He wheezed when he talked and could not walk a block without resting, they said.”
    “It appears that the so-called “chokehold” was instrumental in triggering Garner’s pre-existing health problems and causing his death, but Garner was not choked to death, as the media seems to maintain.”
    I’ll read more and learn more. But if Garner was not choked to death the air goes out of another phony narrative. Not that that will stop it.

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  4. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Jeff Alaways.

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  5. Larry Wirth Avatar
    Larry Wirth

    Bob, it’s called a “carotid” choke hold and it cuts off blood to the brain. Standard Army hand-to-hand training. It will cause loss of consciousness in eight seconds and death in fifteen. Many PD’s including LA have banned it due to the high likelihood of irreversible brain damage. Good idea. L

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  6. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    As for as Michael Brown goes, there is only one person responsible for the 18 year old’s death. That person was Michael Brown.
    He was young and big at 6′ 4″, 270 lbs that night. He walked into the store and grabbed some cigar packs. After leaving, he walked right back in a pushed some smaller people around and gave them trash talk. Nobody was going to tell him what to do.
    He walks down the middle of a road and a cop tells him to use the sidewalk. Nobody tells Michael Brown what to do so, as per his MO, he starts his trash talk. The cop pulls over and as per Michael Brown’s MO again, he walks over to the cop car, reaches in, punches the cop with more trash talk. The rest is history. Nobody is going to tell Michael Brown what to do, especially some honky bacon. The teenager at any time could have ended the inevitable, could have stopped 160 feet away and not turned back and came back toward the officer one last time. But, then again, nobody is going to disrespect Michael Brown, not some store clerk after he strong armed him, not some cop who shot him in his hand.
    If you dance with a cop at lunch, you will be late for supper. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Now, because of Michael Brown’s actions, a young policeman’s life and reputation is ruined forever. Where is the empathy for Officer Wilson?

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  7. Bob Hobert Avatar
    Bob Hobert

    Thanks Larry. Whatever the hold, it triggered Garner’s death from existing health issues. He wasn’t being “choked” when he was saying “I can’t breathe.” How would that work.
    Another facet of this story is why the cops were even arresting Garner – for selling untaxed cigarettes. The police were ordered to crack down on illegal cigarette sales just days before Garner died. Would anyone suspect that New York’s $5.85 tax on a pack of legal cigarettes had anything to do with this tragedy?

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  8. Paul Emery Avatar

    George writes
    “He was an underachiever with an attitude, a racist, and on that day, a criminal. ”
    George Can you point me to some documentation that Brown was a racist?

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  9. Paul Emery Avatar

    Todd
    Why the reference to Jeff Alaways? You mean the Nevada County Sheriff who got one year of soft time for stealing
    methamphetamines and cocaine from the sheriffs evidence locker and selling them to an undercover cop in Auburn.

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  10. RL Crabb Avatar

    So it appears that even if the police wear cop-cams, they can do pretty much anything they want and a grand jury that only hears their side of the story will let them off. Plus, we get to see people get snuffed on Youtube. Sweet.

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  11. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Its about the law enforcement protocol towards the poor and especially young men of color.
    But you guys don’t mind that because your not young men of color and have defended Stop and Frisk many times before.
    Walking while black shouldn’t be a green light for profiling and harassment.
    http://documentaryheaven.com/the-hunted-and-the-hated-an-inside-look-at-the-nypds-stop-and-frisk-policy/
    It’s not about Michael Brown its about a systemic problem.
    A short list of Unarmed People Of Color killed by police since 2000.
    2014: Victor White III (Iberia Parish, LA)
    2014: Dante Parker (San Bernardino County, CA)
    2014: Ezell Ford (Los Angeles, CA)
    2014: Michael Brown (Ferguson, MO)
    2014: Tyree Woodson (Baltimore, MD)
    2014: John Crawford III (Beavercreek, OH)
    2014: Eric Garner (New York, NY)
    2014: Yvette Smith (Bastrop, TX)
    2014: Jordan Baker (Houston, TX)
    2013: Barrington Williams (New York, NY)
    2013: Carlos Alcis (New York, NY)
    2013: Deion Fludd (New York, NY)
    2013: Jonathan Ferrell (Bradfield Farms, NC)
    2013: Kimani Gray (New York, NY)
    2013: Kyam Livingstone (New York, NY)
    2013: Larry Eugene Jackson, Jr. (Austin, TX)
    2013: Miriam Carey (Washington, DC)
    2012: Chavis Carter (Jonesboro, AR)
    2012: Dante Price (Dayton, OH)
    2012: Duane Brown (New York, NY)
    2012: Ervin Jefferson (Atlanta, GA)
    2012: Jersey Green (Aurora, IL)
    2012: Johnnnie Kamahi Warren (Dotham, AL)
    2012: Justin Slipp (New Orleans, LA)
    2012: Kendrec McDade (Pasadena, CA)
    2012: Malissa Williams (Cleveland, OH)
    2012: Nehemiah Dillard (Gainesville, FL)
    2012: Ramarley Graham (New York, NY)
    2012: Raymond Allen (Galveston, TX)
    2012: Rekia Boyd (Chicago, IL)
    2012: Reynaldo Cuevas (New York, NY)
    2012: Robert Dumas Jr (Cleveland, OH)
    2012: Sgt. Manuel Loggins Jr (Orange County, CA)
    2012: Shantel Davis (New York, NY)
    2012: Sharmel Edwards (Las Vegas, NV)
    2012: Shereese Francis (New York, NY)
    2012: Tamon Robinson (New York, NY)
    2012: Timothy Russell (Cleveland, OH)
    2012: Wendell Allen (New Orleans, LA)
    2011: Alonzo Ashley (Denver, CO)
    2011: Jimmell Cannon (Chicago, IL)
    2011: Kenneth Chamberlain (White Plains, NY)
    2011: Kenneth Harding (San Francisco, CA)
    2011: Raheim Brown (Oakland, CA)
    2011: Reginald Doucet (Los Angeles, CA)
    2010: Aaron Campbell (Portland, OR)
    2010: Aiyana Jones (Detroit, MI)
    2010: Danroy Henry (Thornwood, NY)
    2010: Derrick Jones (Oakland, CA)
    2010: Steven Eugene Washington (Los Angeles, CA)
    2009: Kiwane Carrington (Champaign, IL)
    2009: Oscar Grant (Oakland, CA)
    2009: Shem Walker (New York, NY)
    2009: Victor Steen (Pensacola, FL)
    2008: Tarika Wilson (Lima, OH)
    2007: DeAunta Terrel Farrow (West Memphis, AR)
    2006: Sean Bell (New York, NY)
    2005: Henry Glover (New Orleans, LA)
    2005: James Brisette (New Orleans, LA)
    2005: Ronald Madison (New Orleans, LA)
    2004: Timothy Stansbury (New York, NY)
    2003: Alberta Spruill (New York, NY)
    2003: Orlando Barlow (Las Vegas, NV)
    2003: Ousmane Zongo (New York, NY)
    2001: Timothy Thomas (Cincinnati, OH)
    2000: Earl Murray (Dellwood, MO)
    2000: Malcolm Ferguson (New York, NY)
    2000: Patrick Dorismond (New York, NY)
    2000: Prince Jones (Fairfax County, VA)
    2000: Ronald Beasley (Dellwood, MO)
    Here is a list of unarmed Blacks killed by police in the US. It is extremely incomplete. A complete list for just 2005 to 2012 would have at least 760 killings. I have only 6% of those. This list is just the tip of the iceberg.

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  12. fish Avatar
    fish

    Here is a list of unarmed Blacks killed by police in the US. It is extremely incomplete. A complete list for just 2005 to 2012 would have at least 760 killings. I have only 6% of those. This list is just the tip of the iceberg.
    Citation?

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  13. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Sorry the actual list came from a link in a Mother Jones Article –http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/police-shootings-michael-brown-ferguson-black-men
    This happens so much we really should have a organization that keeps track of these killings and publishes the results. Southern Poverty Center does a good job on these issues but doesn’t compile list that I can find. You would think the NAACP would have list but they don’t.

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  14. drivebyposter Avatar
    drivebyposter

    Looking at another motherjones article, I see that 2026 white, non-Hispanic arrest related deaths occurred (2003-2009) vs 1529 black, non-Hispanic arrest related deaths.
    Given the disparity in crime rates between the two groups, (7.5:1 for murder for example) plus factoring in the difference in population size, that doesn’t seem too unreasonable in terms of the differences between races.

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  15. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Ben Emery | 04 December 2014 at 06:49 AM
    No that’s a link to another article. You provided a list of blacks claimed killed by law enforcement with the suggestion that these were the “tip of the iceberg”. Did the names posted come from FBI stats, DOJ stats, etc.? Somebody semi credible? Please don’t bother with bogus SPLC numbers unless it’s their revenue numbers! Those I would be very interested in seeing.

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  16. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Fish,
    It is that mother jones article paragraph III sentence II where the links can be found. I have a down day, no appointments and have to stay inside because the specific chemo I am on makes me ultra sensitive to the cold. I will search FBI and government sources. It is funny in this case you will only take the records of law enforcement on law enforcement. Naw, they would never create documents to save their own from any wrong doing.

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  17. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Ben Emery | 04 December 2014 at 07:52 AM
    I accept them because they usually have thousands of users who can critique the data and methodology and they are usually the most comprehensive available. That said, I acknowledge that the data isn’t perfect.
    If you know of a superior data set I’m all ears!

    Like

  18. fish Avatar
    fish

    Oh…..I posted the 04 December 2014 at 07:18 AM, based on your “Here you go”. I’ll look at the Mother Jones article.

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  19. Bob Hobert Avatar
    Bob Hobert

    Ben, are you outraged over the police shooting of unarmed 20 yr-old Dillon Taylor in Salt Lake City on August 12th? Or any/all other biracial police shootings that don’t fit the Ferguson narrative? I note you are sticking to the theme that Garner was “snuffed” on video for all to see. Are you even remotely accepting that Garner was a law breaker resisting arrest and that he himself could easily have avoided the physical confrontation (same with Brown) that triggered his death from an extreme asthma attack? I read the comments on this blog often but seldom comment because it really isn’t a discussion forum, rather a boringly predictable closed-minded exchange between a small handful of regulars. How do you put up with it GR? I regret even trying to open up the discussion. Tuning out.

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  20. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Here Ben Emery and all the other bleeding hearts. This is a list of policemen and women killed in 2012. There are two sides to every story. You liberals are just chumps.
    http://www.odmp.org/search/year/2012
    I say the police should only respond to events that supporters call in.

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  21. fish Avatar
    fish

    I read the comments on this blog often but seldom comment because it really isn’t a discussion forum, rather a boringly predictable closed-minded exchange between a small handful of regulars. How do you put up with it GR? I regret even trying to open up the discussion. Tuning out.
    Maybe had you posted more often the “quality” would have been more to your liking. Now we’ll never know!

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  22. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Bob,
    I am outraged at every form of police abuse of power, especially those incidents when an unarmed person is killed by police. So the answer to your question is “Yes”. I watched the video and how on earth that murder was justified is beyond me. When the police are acquitted time and time again they seem to be shooting to kill instead of trying to uphold the law and due process. If this happened at the numbers any where close to the numbers of young men of color there would be major reform but since it doesn’t happen to whites on that scale nothing really happens except every few years a tipping point hits and there are a few days of riots that get covered by the media. The question where is the media with the thousands of peaceful rallies and protests? If it bleeds it leads. Media is complicit in all these injustices by not covering the real problem but focusing on the violence to people and property instead of actually covering the real issue.
    Do you think the fact that we have a gun happy culture helps create a more trigger happy police force and justifies the militarization of the police? This is why I only advocate non violent action because when giving the justification of the use of violence the people will lose almost every time against law enforcement. I agree with Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., Bishop Tutu, and so on. Let show the world who really is the guilty side of this fight by showing our humanity and compassion while they abuse their power by excessive force on peaceful activists.

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  23. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Todd,
    You guys are so dense on these issues it is unbelievable. How many of those murderers of those officers were allowed to go free without any accountability?

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  24. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Ben Emery, me dense? No, it is you liberals that have an excuse for any atrocity against white people, police of all colors and your own country. You people need to get a grip on reality. I just finished watching a ID on the murder of three policemen in Alabama in 2005. A 18 year old black man kilned two white and one black policemen. Let me see your bleeding hart for those men. You are pathetic.

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  25. fish Avatar
    fish

    Do you think the fact that we have a gun happy culture helps create a more trigger happy police force and justifies the militarization of the police?
    Since this mornings offering was about “unarmed blacks killed by police” one would think that no, a “gun happy” culture doesn’t.

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  26. RL Crabb Avatar

    Garner’s skin pigmentation doesn’t matter. It’s about the use of overwhelming force, be it choking, spraying mace in the eyes of protestors who are sitting on the ground (Remember Davis?), or roughing up a local Measure S supporter during a bust. You certainly thought they were thugs when the guns are pointed at your buddies.

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  27. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Fish,
    First, the FBI only tracks justifiable homicides and unarmed isn’t one of the categories.
    Second, in your opinion how does more guns in more hands make the police less nervous(equating to quicker to the draw)than if there were less guns on the streets?
    In Great Britain there were zero fatal shootings by police in 2013. In US there were around 1,000. What is the difference?
    The argument is about protocol and policy that discriminates against young men of color and unaccountable excessive force by the police. It has more to do with poverty but the system set up the first 200 years made sure people of color had a much tougher path out of poverty so the numbers are very lopsided at who is targeted along with it is very difficult to hide the color of a persons skin.

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  28. fish Avatar
    fish

    The argument is about protocol and policy that discriminates against young men of color and unaccountable excessive force by the police. It has more to do with poverty but the system set up the first 200 years made sure people of color had a much tougher path out of poverty so the numbers are very lopsided at who is targeted along with it is very difficult to hide the color of a persons skin.
    Yes I suppose that that is partially true. It is not my responsibility however to surrender my rights of firearm ownership because it makes law enforcement nervous.

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  29. Walt Avatar

    Criminal Justice, CDC and the FBI Census Bureau.
    Police killings of blacks down 70 percent in last 50 years
    In 2012, 123 blacks were killed by police with a gun
    In 2012, 326 whites were killed with a gun
    I wonder how many Whites were killed by Black officers?

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  30. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Todd,
    Maybe your MENSA level intelligence has retarded you to the extent you cannot grasp what is being said, please have someone else help you with this concept.
    Was the person who murdered the police held accountable for their actions?
    The police are allowed to murder unarmed people without an accountability or due process for those families who lost a loved one. Was Michael Brown guilty of a crime, we don’t know because Officer Wilson actions became the judge, jury, and executioner in this incident just as George Zimmerman self appointed vigilante ignored police orders, stalked, induced a response, got the shit kicked out of him, and then murdered a 17 year unarmed kid “in self defense” for doing nothing wrong except walking while black in the neighborhood his father lived.
    So once again the issue is, why are police being allowed to kill unarmed people without any legal recourse? This is what the protests are about not Michael Brown. It is happening all over the country.
    I am sure there are incidents where police officers are held accountable in a court of law but the media doesn’t cover it. Since “for the state” corporate media will not cover this issue or right wing authoritarians defend such injustices here is a article from a source you will not like-
    http://www.thenation.com/article/190937/why-its-impossible-indict-cop#

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  31. Paul Emery Avatar

    Todd
    Again, what was the relevance of bringing up Jeff Alaways in this conversation?

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  32. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Bob,
    That is exactly my point, the issue is the protocol and policies that allow police to run a muk with impunity.
    It is very difficult to separate the race factor with these types of issues because of the overwhelming lopsidedness of policy enforcement towards people of color. Stop and Frisk, which is a big factor in the misgiving about the police by the poor doesn’t specify race in the policy but almost 90% of stops are either black or latino according to the NY ACLU. In the mid to late 19th century and early 20th century it was the Irish and Italians.
    The numbers break down like this in NYC for stop and frisk, 685,000 stop and frisks in 2011. Over 4,300,000 since 2002.
    Black
    population- 23%
    stops- 53%
    Latino
    Population- 29%
    Stops- 34%
    White, Asian, Native American
    Population- 47%
    stops- 13%

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  33. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    In NYC I wonder how many of those who cause millions to suffer and become homeless were stopped and frisked? I am talking about Wall St of course. My guess the number is close to zero. How about fifth avenue or any upscale neighborhood, how many innocent people who are wealthy are stopped and frisked for no particular reason?

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  34. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Ben Emery | 04 December 2014 at 10:25 AM
    Close to zero indeed! Not much street level crimes in the areas you list. Not really sure what “stop and frisk” would accomplish except waste time.
    If the democratic president and democratic Attorney General want to prosecute bankers, hedge fund managers, and M&A guys for the crimes of Wall Street I would wholeheartedly support this action.

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  35. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Walt,
    White population i America is roughly 191,000,000 or 62%
    Black population in America is roughly 40,000,000 or 12%
    Black prison population in America is roughly 841,000 or 40%
    White male majorities in all 50 state and federal legislation/ laws 100%.
    I would think the self proclaimed Freedom, Liberty, and US Constitutional loving people would be outraged and offended at such excess use of power by a government entity but this goes with my authoritarian description of some of those on this blog. Military, War on Terror, Spying Programs, Drone Warfare, Illegal Use of Military Acts of War without congressional declaration of war, reproductive rights, same sex marriage, and so on. No problem with Big Brother iron fist coming down on these issues but tax a billionaire is tyrranical, which taxes are outlined in the US Constitution.
    The more you guys try to defend such selective actions, protocol, and policies by examples of black people doing bad things the more you show your bigoted tendencies. It is about equality of our justice system. I want everybody equally protected not everybody equally suppressed.

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  36. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 1020 & 1025am – Unless you are numerate enough to include the relative crime rates experienced from your cited cohorts, your numbers are pretty much meaningless. If you want to make a point about relative frequencies, you have to establish coherent base rates – here, at what rates are crimes/behaviors committed by various cohorts that elicit police responses. Then we can have a reasonable discussion – of course, it may not be one that supports certain ideological agendas.
    Ben, thanks for the report on your current status. Prayers for your recovery continue. Thanks for hanging in there and continuing to be a strong voice for your beliefs which I know are shared by so many others.

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  37. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Fish,
    Unfortunately the Democratic Party is just as in the pockets of the financial sector as the Republican Party. That is why I deplore both party leaderships and actively campaign against both of them. I sent an Op Ed to the Union on Third Way Democrats but it appears I have been black listed there since our campaign, for the most part. I used to get things published quite frequently but very few since 2010. I was going to add a few paragraphs and try the Sacramento Bee.
    Here is a different Op Ed I wrote on elections and suppression of independents. Unfortunately I write them by The Union criteria and am limited to 750 words.
    http://yubanet.com/regional/Op-Ed-Ben-Emery-Demanding-Democracy-and-Voter-Choice.php#.VICtu4VOj-k

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  38. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 1027pm – Yes, I was hoping that someone (you?) would question my allegation that Brown was a racist. I know that part of the liberal mantra is that only whites can be racists, but that has never held water on RR (see my glossary).
    I concluded that Brown was a racist from a description of him and the 9aug14 events described on NPR by his friend who was with him that day and witnessed Brown’s robbing of the convenience store and then deciding to challenge life and society by walking down the center of the street. His friend refused to join him in either pursuit and stayed on the sidewalk. But it was the description of Brown’s mentality and specifically his attitude that day that was most revealing of his racism.
    Brown’s friend described him as being anti-white as a matter of general principles (presumably abetted by the usual litany of what whites have done to blacks). From that point of view, whites are held irredeemable and justice demands that they must forever continue to pay obeisances to blacks both individually and through public policies. A rite of black manhood is to demonstrate at every opportunity that you stand up for your race by visibly disprespecting and opposing whites at every opportunity and also the unique trappings of their white culture. Such beliefs, of course, were not unique to Brown, but are shared by a large fraction of disaffected blacks, especially their cohort of underachieving youth. (It is also this focus against which responsible black leaders like Thomas Sowell, Ben Carson, Walter Williams, and the formerly celebrated Bill Cosby speak against.)

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  39. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George,
    Thanks for the kind words. Going through the psychological and physical trials and tribulations of the whole ordeal gets a bit overwhelming at times but we are doing as good as a person can with everything. I think everybody who goes through this has many of the similar issues.
    Where you are missing the mark by the standards of laws is the fact in 1840 in Virginia if you were black you were property and any attempt to be free a person was breaking the law. This is just a very easy example so that is why I used it. Just read Fredrick Douglass autobiography to get a feel of how breaking the law under such conditions isn’t a good measuring tool of what is just or not.
    Who made those laws? Who makes the policies/ protocol of enforcement of those laws? In whose interests are the laws made? In whose interests is law enforcement used? Who are the peers in jury’s or the judges in these cases brought before them? Who controls the media boards and policies? Who contribute the most to political parties and candidates? These are all rhetorical question of course.
    Almost all of these have the same answer. Who, well to do white males or those doing their bidding. Those who sit in a position of power will never willingly give that power up. It must be taken from them by the will of the people and hopefully what is put in its place is system and body of people who make equality of justice for all the first priority. Without equal access to justice there can be no freedom.

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  40. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 1131am – The crimes/behaviors I referred to in my 1046am are the kind that you and I both would agree need to be deterred, prevented, and responded to by local constabularies. Neither of us sit in a “position of power” from which we would/could dictate black-biased rules of social behavior. So do you have any example of such crimes/behaviors that black get confronted by police that are designed to preferentially snag blacks, and for which whites get a pass? In short, crimes/behaviors arguably put in place by people of power and not by people like you and me.

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  41. fish Avatar
    fish

    Almost all of these have the same answer. Who, well to do white males or those doing their bidding. Those who sit in a position of power will never willingly give that power up. It must be taken from them by the will of the people and hopefully what is put in its place is system and body of people who make equality of justice for all the first priority. Without equal access to justice there can be no freedom.
    Well I wish you well in your quest Ben. Unfortunately your best chance to break the grip of those you identify as the Oligarchy was lost when the bankers and the banking cartel was made whole during the financial crisis 2007 – 2009. The rescuing of the banking/financialization engine was something of which you approved. You may yet have another opportunity to break the back of the status quo given that I believe that the market is due for another fall.
    Are you willing to entertain the suffering that you were so afraid of this time?

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  42. George Rebane Avatar

    BobH 810am – Most established and longstanding blogs with wide readerships like RR draw commenters from a group of “regulars” along with a halo of those readers who comment much less frequently like yourself. And yes, sometimes some of these regulars do get into inanities and even have been known to trade mudballs (thankfully this type of levity has been diminishing). But given RR’s encouraging stats (around 10K unique monthly visitors, about 40% of whom appear to be regulars) and the categories of issues/topics covered, the comments elicited are reasonable expansions and spin-offs of the subject matter I present in my posts. Most are ideologically based because the fundamental debate in our country and the world is a continuation of the battle for uncommitted and/or less informed minds between the collectivists and those of the classical liberal derivation. And again this is proper.
    RR’s Sandbox is a somewhat unique feature wherein readers can and do introduce topics du jour or of their own interest on which I have not posted or don’t intend to post. Looking at their comment streams, it appears to be a popular and appreciated addition to this blog.
    RR has an ideological viewpoint that is more comprehensively and precisely defined than any I am aware of in the blogosphere. Its posts do not pretend to present a ‘balanced and fair’ treatment and I take a dim view of others’ self-edifying claims to that effect. RR is not written for broad audiences, however, judging from my correspondence I do believe that it does appeal to broader audiences because of the way/style in which it presents its views. I am heartened by this and by the commenters on all sides of issues who come to do ‘dharma combat’ here.
    When you state that RR “really isn’t a discussion forum, rather a boringly predictable closed-minded exchange between a small handful of regulars”, then you must undoubtedly have some exemplars (perhaps even prominent templates) in mind of blogs that cover equivalent breadth of content while attracting comments that are illuminatingly surprising and voluminous from a more suitable population of the educated, entertaining, and inspired. Pray, where may such blogs be found, and what policies do you suggest RR adopt so that in the future you may not feel sullied when you do deign to offer your thoughts on matters at hand? It is my sincere desire not to visit such unpleasantness on any who would contribute to these comment streams.

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  43. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Stop and Frisk is not a crime on the part of those are getting stopped is a good example. How many arrests have been made because a person loses their temper and resists in such incidents.
    Other laws such as drug laws are way skewed against people of color and that is what is the biggest crime filling our world leading in per capita and in sheer number prisons.
    Again I think this has more to do with SES than race of a person. I had friends in every race/ethnicity, religion, and social status growing up. My friends in the middle and upper classes used as much if not more drugs than my friends who lived in poverty. I can count on one hand how many of my middle class friends who purchased and consumed illegal drugs on a daily basis had a criminal record for such actions. On the other side of the equation just about all my friends who lived in the poorer neighborhood had criminal records for drugs. When I hung out in the middle/ upper class neighborhoods I almost never saw a police car. When hanging out in the poorer neighborhoods, which were predominately black and latino the police were always present stopping and harassing young and middle age males. At least 3 dozen times over a 5 year period when I left that neighborhood from hanging out with friends or playing basketball I would be stopped by the police no matter if I was on foot, bike, or car. I was harassed, intimidated, threatened, slammed, handcuffed, searched, but never ticketed or charged wit h a single crime. I wasn’t into smoking anything and didn’t start drinking alcohol until I was 22 years old.
    My point is just as many drugs were being bought and consumed by my middle/ upper class friends that were white, black, mexican, filipino, vietnamese korean, japanese, indian, jewish, christian, muslim, buddhist, and hindu. Yet none of them had a criminal record for drugs. In the poor neighborhood where a majority of people were black and second were latino almost all my friends had criminal record for drugs. Selective enforcement and I think it had more to do with the inability to get decent representation in the judicial system so they are targeted. My guess poor white neighborhoods have the same issue.
    The reason for no specific laws is how do we prove cause and effect when it isn’t directly written into law? All we have to do is be observant and use some critical thinking.
    Here is thing I am getting at when I say 100% of laws passed in America at the state and federal level where passed in legislative bodies that were a majority of white males. This doesn’t mean all white males agree on everything, you and I prove that is definitely not the case. What it means all the laws are written, debated, and counter argued through the perspective of white males, usually of middle/ upper SES. If you or I were to live on an Indian reservation what chances do you think we could possibly understand the reasons behind and enforcement of laws within a totally different culture? People of color have always from day one of our nation been discriminated against in equal opportunity and justice. This leaving them far behind in all the economic gains and standard of living white people have experienced.
    The same is true of women as well.
    Women who didn’t have the ability to vote for governance across the country until 1920 and even still today only about 20% of our congress is made up of women. Even less so in leadership roles. So legislation still has a white male bias no matter what side of the aisle. What perspective comes to the floor for debate or what witnesses are allowed to speak at committee hearings are influence by the fact women don’t have an equal voice despite being 51% of the population. So what does this tell us, the perspective of women are well under represented.
    The Gender Wealth Gap is very real, why? Are women not as smart or capable or is it the laws do not reflect the interests of women? http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3686840/
    White males despite what we might feel or think. Aren’t any smarter, don’t work any harder, and definitely don’t corner the market on ethical behavior. We were handed down privileges from day one of this country and unfair advantage through legislation/ laws. That is it nothing more.

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  44. Paul Emery Avatar

    So pretty much George you base you opinion that Brown was a racist from the testimony of one person. The rest of your 10:27 consists of your view of black culture. Really George saying ” A rite of black manhood is to demonstrate at every opportunity that you stand up for your race by visibly disprespecting and opposing whites at every opportunity and also the unique trappings of their white culture” is a stretch indeed and as written refersto all blacks not just Brown. You should consider rewriting that unless thats what you mean to imply.

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  45. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Ben Emery, qhy attack my superiority of you regarding my greater MENSA? Just accept you are not up to my level of intelligence and you will feel better about your inferiority. It is obvious that like all the liberals I have been reading and listening to on the Ferguson issue, that the truth has no place in your screeds. If it did you would be totally accepted as a person of “smart”. So, too bad.
    Regarding the fellow in NYC. The whole episode is terrible. It appears the liberal Mayor DeBlasio sent out orders to arrest the people selling cigarettes on the street as this man was. So, the police, doing the bidding of their boss, did exactly that. Their use of overwhelming force was over the top. Why the liberal Mayor would authorize this is being debated. Apparently these people selling cigarettes one at a time are cutting into the taxes NYC gets from charging 13 bucks a pack. So, DeBlasio sent out his troopers to curtail it. It all rests on his back.

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  46. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “I am outraged at every form of police abuse of power, especially those incidents when an unarmed person is killed by police. So the answer to your question is “Yes”. I watched the video and how on earth that murder was justified is beyond me. When the police are acquitted time and time again they seem to be shooting to kill instead of trying to uphold the law and due process. If this happened at the numbers any where close to the numbers of young men of color there would be major reform but since it doesn’t happen to whites on that scale nothing really happens except every few years a tipping point hits and there are a few days of riots that get covered by the media.” -Ben E
    It wasn’t “murder”, Ben, that takes an intent to kill with malice, and in NYC, the on-location supervising NYPD sergeant was apparently a black woman. He was resisting arrest and it wasn’t going to end without him getting subdued… can you recall any instance of five+ cops deciding to let someone go because the designated perp just wouldn’t cooperate with the handcuffing and the cops got tired? There is no right to resist arrest; if it is without reason, there’s always the opportunity to make a claim of false arrest after the fact. My own expectations are that a civil case, with a lower standard of proof, will be successful in NYC but not in Ferguson.
    In the bad old days before video was everywhere he would have been pounded with nightsticks until the urge or ability to fight was gone and he got cuffed. Most would think a wrestling match is progress but the beginning of the end remains when the person being arrested is put in restraints. Might as well go quietly.
    Ben, a secret to the disparity is a lesson most white kids get, either from their peers or their parents, before they get their driver’s license. Chris Rock summarized it in the following public service announcement, “How to Not Get Your Ass Kicked by the Police”:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8
    “Obey the law”, or at least appear to be obeying the law, is a key item.
    I was literally told to be polite, keep hands on the wheel, not do anything to put the cop on edge. Follow instructions, say as little as possible. For an advanced course in “white” behavior, here’s “Never Talk to the Police”:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
    Rock in essence summarized the previous video as “Shut the F*ck Up”. Good advice.

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  47. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 1253pm – You nailed it amigo. Brown’s friend on NPR rang true to about 50+ years of experience with disadvantaged blacks and what has been published in the literature. And yes, the rite of black manhood I describe is rejected by only a select group of progressives among which you apparently find yourself. I most certainly can understand Brown and his kind, and would likely adopt the same outlook on whites were I black. Apparently you cannot; pity. The mass behaviors of blacks in poor neighborhoods must continue to be a never-ending puzzlement to you. Perhaps that is why liberals and the rest of us prescribe such different approaches to remedy our national problem.

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  48. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    I listened to Kenyatta, the President of Kenya, in his speech against terrorism the other day. It was so refreshing to her a very eloquent black man not blaming “whitey” for the problem. But I am sure he will get crap for blaming the Arabs.

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