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George Rebane

When I read Steve Frisch’s ‘Sustainable jobs, sustainable communities’ piece in this morning’s 28nov14) Union, I almost sprayed my coffee all over the breakfast table.  Pre-rainstorm chores kept me from leaping on the keyboard until now.  RR already drew some commenting from a couple of readers one of whom, Russ Steele, posted an excellent short critique on his Sierra Foothills Commentary here.

Mr Frisch is CEO of the cynically named Sierra Business Council, an NGO that is an active promoter of all things sustainably socialist in these foothills.  SBC is not shy in declaring its commission, plans, and programs that to the best of my knowledge makes it the functional equivalent of the ICLEI – local NGOs charged with implementing the objectives of UN’s Agenda21.  (download pdf here and see more RR's posts on Agenda21 here)

(Originally ICLEI stood for ‘International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives’, but that was a bit too revealing.  Since Agenda21’s heavy emphasis on ‘smart growth’ and ‘sustainability’ – an attribute never defined – the name was changed to “ICLEI-Local Governments for Sustainability”.  Read about it here, and then compare its look- and work-alike SBC here.)

In his column Mr Frisch promotes wage controls to put a floor on what “sustainable jobs” should pay.  He also promotes LEED certification of plans and buildings across the land to allow them to qualify for current and anticipated government favors.  “LEED, or Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design, awards buildings points for features that aim to minimize emissions, water use, waste and indoor pollutants. A new commercial building needs 40 out of a possible 100 points for certification.”  (more here)

LEED certification is another socialist bamboozle that has not demonstrated any benefit to communities wherein such buildings have been constructed other than increasing their cost, and fostering a mind numbing acceptance of yet another aspect of central planning.  The clear aim of our socialist neighbors is to make LEED certification an added requirement in local building codes and operating regulations.  A study by USA Today reports –

Across the United States, the Green Building Council has helped thousands of developers win tax breaks and grants, charge higher rents, exceed local building restrictions and get expedited permitting by certifying them as "green" under a system that often rewards minor, low-cost steps that have little or no proven environmental benefit.

And this strain of the socialist disease is already on its way to spreading across the country.

More than 200 states, cities and federal agencies now require LEED certification for new public buildings, even though they have done little independent and meaningful research into LEED's effectiveness. LEED can add millions to construction costs while promising to cut utility bills and other expenses. (more here)

The problem is that, like so many other collectivist bamboozles from which we are suffering, the benefits from LEED certification are unproven and its punishments manifest.  Like the arguments of the climateers, the building code central planners ask you, ‘Just trust us.’  No LEED verification is available for very obvious reasons.

Arguing that there is anything ‘sustainable’ about wage controls and increased costs of doing business is a now established tactic by the Left that in recent years has been brought to prominence by Team Obama elites like Cass Sunstein and Jonathan Gruber.  The good professor Gruber was so proud of how his pernicious plan to sell Obamacare was implemented that he had the temerity to tell the truth about it over the last three years.  Proselytizing that achievement may have earned him a measure of immortality (or at least notoriety) in that he has accurately identified a particularly dim cohort of voters who are now labeled as being gruberized Americans.

It is to these gruberized Americans that people like Mr Frisch direct their commentaries.  Everyone else knows the added benefits of Leviathan’s central planning.

Posted in , , , ,

99 responses to “Socialist Bamboozles Collective”

  1. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    The Laffer Curve is a laugher. The notion that cutting taxes creates jobs and stimulates the economy is great in theory (which originated with 15th century Muslim scholar Ibn Khaldun) but doesn’t hold water. Kansas cut taxes at the same time California raised taxes on its wealthiest residents and the results are a laugher. From 1/13 through 9/14, California saw an increase in jobs triple that of Kansas from 7.2% compared to Kansas at 2.1% despite the fact that CA had a much more significant reduction is government jobs than Kansas. Wage increases in CA during the same time period were over 3% greater than Kansas. Kansas’ bond rating dropped, CA’s increased. Theories are great on paper, but do they hold up in the real world? Not this one. (based on Bureau of Labor Statistics data)

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  2. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Joe Koyote | 01 December 2014 at 10:25 AM
    Poor JoKe…..completely thrown by more than two variables.

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  3. George Rebane Avatar

    JoeK 1025am – Then I trust that even more jobs will be created were tax increases to continue. I’m curious, is there some level known to liberals at which this effect stops, or does the benefit of higher taxes just continue until the total confiscation of earnings?
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2011/06/the-liberal-mind-tax-rates-dont-affect-earnings.html
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2011/06/higher-tax-rates-lower-revenues.html

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  4. Paul Emery Avatar

    George 8:03
    Curious question George to a very specific set of circumstances. Can you give me a specific example as you see it.

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  5. Walt Avatar

    Maybe JoeK can spell out how massive taxation creates jobs. And being a government leach don’t count. A government employee doesn’t add one dime to the tax base. You can’t be paid from the same bucket that you pay into and be considered a “taxpayer”. That can only apply to private people working for private enterprise.

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  6. Michael R. Kesti Avatar
    Michael R. Kesti

    Walt 01Dec2014 02:26 PM
    I agree that massive taxation inhibits job creation. Referring to government employees as leaches is bigotry, however, and the notion that government employees cannot be considered taxpayers can only be true if there can be no legitimate government jobs.

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  7. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 157pm – Government contracting is simply a pain in the ass as I can personally testify. The paperwork, inspections, guarantees, acceptance tests, dealing with stupid people, … are stultifying. If the feds wanted to buy, say, a special kind of Kevlar gloves for whatever reason, they would have to pay a premium to an established maker of work gloves for the order. The glove company would bill them for the complete marginal cost of staffing and managing the order. And liberals continually wonder why the government pays so much for, here, gloves. Their conclusion is that it’s the greedy capitalist wanting his pound of flesh. But what the greedy capitalist really wants is for the government to go away and leave him alone – he never planned on government business, and he doesn’t want it now.
    In the early 80s I headed a (inter)nationally known educational electronics company that also dealt with government purchasing – domestic and foreign. The crap that the feds put me through to buy tape recorders, or amplifiers, or learning labs was unbelievable. I had my people enumerate and charge them for every one of their foibles – I considered it my duty to attempt educating the uneducable. (BTW, foreign governments were much more facile in their business dealings.)
    Now, the liberal mindset would see that kind of purchasing from private industry as providing it a subsidy, and so record it in their accounting of subsidies and the subsequent propaganda that their politicians and lamestream made out of such transactions. There are thousands of such purchases daily by federal and state government agencies.
    Finally, when a greedy capitalist sees an opportunity to start a segment of his business (sanitized from the rest of his commercial operations) to supply ongoing government orders, then he will do so and charge them full mark-up.
    For those readers who don’t know why all this is so, I gave a hint above – “dealing with stupid people”. Government buyers appear to be selected from the room temp IQ cohort. They have very little idea what they are doing as purchasing agents, so to cover their sorry asses best they can, they go down the purchasing regulations (written by another bureau somewhere that is disconnected from purchasing) line by line and see that the vendor dots every i and crosses every t. And they don’t want to make a decision without checking with upstairs, who often has to also check upstairs, …, I think that you’re getting the picture. This level of incompetency and inefficiency is endemic because it is built into the very fabric of large bureaucracies.
    What continues to amaze me is that people who consider themselves otherwise educated and informed are so totally ignorant of all this and more. There is a reason why the governments pisses away uncounted billions upon billions of dollars every year.

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  8. George Rebane Avatar

    MichaelK 416pm – I see we may have an inexperienced purist among us. While there are some – damn few – legitimate government workers, the aggregate are leeches to the extent that they are a drag on our economy and freedoms. And for these leeches, we also pay their taxes – else we wind up with double or even triple counting of the initial tax dollar paid by the wealth creating individual or corporation.

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  9. Michael R. Kesti Avatar
    Michael R. Kesti

    George Rebane 01Dec14 04:27 PM
    Not too inexperienced or pure, I think.
    There are, no doubt, some government employees that qualify for the derisive qualifier, but there are plenty of legitimate government employees. Consider the police and firefighters, and, unless “support the troops” means nothing then most of the military qualify as legitimate. Add to that those who maintain the streets and waterworks, and the like, and you have a substantial number of people who do legitimate work in the name of the government. They earn their pay and that portion of which is taxed qualifies them as taxpayers.
    Just as undoubtedly, there are those government employees who do qualify as leeches. I suspect that the bulk of these are the managers, many of whom we call bureaucrats, who set the real workers up for the kinds of failure that you describe in your 04:27.
    To lump the former in with the latter is, in my opinion, a shortsighted injustice.

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  10. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I recall about twenty years ago I decided to bid a re-roof of a Tahoe Forest building. Straightforrd gable, asphalt shingles, By the time I read through the fity pages of specs and the requirements on bonding and paperwork, the $2400 job was now 10K. It is the way of the government.

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  11. George Rebane Avatar

    MichaelK 453pm – Never meant to include the military and first responders, they are a class of government workers unique unto themselves (used to be one of them myself). But you start rapidly going down hill when you include those who “maintain the streets and waterworks, and the like”. Just because government fills chuckholes is not any reason to think that they should continue doing so, and that list goes on.
    There are millions of government workers who would have a hard time holding down a job with similar functions were they to be performed under contract by private enterprise. They would get their butts fired so fast it would make your head spin. Am not sure what experience with government procurement and/or function you have had to make you such a hopeful citizen.
    I have found that a calming and useful way to think about all this is that government is the employer of last resort. All those marginally motivated and marginally skilled people would be on more explicit forms of the dole were it not that the government has hired them and given them careers and self-respect. Now if we could only minimize the impact that they have on the common weal, then paying those extra taxes to keep them ’employed’ would be much more tolerable. Recall that I am in favor of wealth redistribution, nevertheless government employment is one of the more ineffective forms of it.

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  12. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    As Newty G once said….(paraphrase from memory)…”if the gov’t wanted to study the American Bison, there would 5 people sitting in an office in Washington and 2 workers in the field.”
    Know a fine older gent who worked for the Atomic Energy Agency. Had a doctorate in nuclear cermanics. He quit. He said he would go out and look at something for 2 hours, go back to his government supplied trailer/office and spend the next 6 hours of every workday writing his report. He would send the report upstairs to a guy who read reports and then write a report on my friend’s report and send it upstairs to another dude that would read the report and write a report and send it upstairs to a dude that would……read the report and spent the lion’s share of the workday writing a report, etc, etc, etc.
    My friend quit because he wanted to be in the field doing his passion and not sitting in a trailer 6 hours a day everyday writing a report that nobody at the top would bother to read. He said working for the Federal government was just doing paperwork and making copies of paperwork and storing paperwork in a every growing bank of filing cabinets.
    What a way to stifle creativity, initiative, and productivity.
    It does affect the private sector as well. Remember when Duke Energy was toying with buying PG&E 14 years ago? I was privy to the minutes of a meeting (even though moi is just a dumb blue collar type) with the CA Public Utilities Commission, Duke, and an assortment of misfits and do-gooders.
    Duke Energy was handed a 17 page list. I could only make it through the top few items on page 2 before turning my head in disgust. Let’s see. There was a requirement to give a homeless shelter in Modesto 600,000k, a requirement to give each and every municipality and/or organization whether it was an agency or not in the PG&E service area a boatload of money and then a heck of a lot more money. It was not a wish list. Nay, it was the PUC’s demands for the wonderful honored privilege of doing business in The Golden State. That is before regs where even on the table. Duke ended its interest in buying publicly owned PG&E after just a few days. Think they said something like FO and die.

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  13. Michael R. Kesti Avatar
    Michael R. Kesti

    George Rebane 01Dec2014 05:37 PM
    I cannot disagree, George, but I feel that the military and first responders are not so unique that I did not like them being classified as leeches who cannot be considered taxpayers. I’ll defer, for now, debate concerning the value added by chuckhole fillers, et al.

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  14. George Rebane Avatar

    MichaelK 627pm – On another matter. Your last name has intrigued me for some time. In Estonian ‘kest’ means shell, sleeve, container, hull, …, and ‘kesti’ is the possessive of kest. For example, kesti värv means the color of the kest.
    Am interested in the background of your name (and you).

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  15. Michael R. Kesti Avatar
    Michael R. Kesti

    George Rebane 01Dec2014 06:37 PM
    My surname is Finnish. Three and more generations ago some of my ancestors lived near Kestila, a small community in central Finnland. I understand that “lasting” or “lasts” may be a loose translation of the word.
    I have come across Kestis other than from my immediate family but I enjoy being the only Kesti residing in Nevada County.

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  16. George Rebane Avatar

    MichaelK 650pm – Well, that explains it. As you may know, Finland and Estonia have an interesting intertwined history, besides being of the same ethnic stock. Finnish, Estonian, and Hungarian are the three Finno-Ugric languages of Europe, having migrated from the Mongolian regions over the last millenia (there are still villages in the Urals where perfectily understandable Estonian is spoken today). In any event, Estonian and Finnish have a very similar lexicon beyond sharing the F-U grammatical structure (Hungarian wound up with a different lexicon but shares the grammar). With 16 cases, one does not want to contemplate learning a F-U language as an adult.
    The other Estonian word that has the ‘kest’ root is ‘kestab’ which also means to last or endure over time, and demonstrates the similarity in Finnish-Estonian syntaxes.
    Having a unique name in a region is indeed a pleasure, and one I share with you in Nevada County and even wider environs – rebane is the word for fox in Estonian.

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  17. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Hmmm. Hull, sleeve, lasting. Combine that with the meaning of rebane, and we might have ourselves a lasting foxhole. Sorry for butting in. Carry on. 😉

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  18. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    is there some level known to liberals at which this effect stops, or does the benefit of higher taxes just continue until the total confiscation of earnings? — A bit dramatic don’t you think?
    I don’t know the answer to that George, I’m not an expert in economics, and apparently, neither is Laffer. I was just passing on some statistical evidence that appears to debunk the theory. What I do know is that Laffer’s theory was picked up by conservatives as the gospel (including yourself) when, in fact, it is questionable at best and most probably pure bunk. Conservative politicians used the promise of jobs, based on this theory, to further lower taxes for their super wealthy contributors while doing nothing for the working public. It was a con. The largest benefactors of the new low tax rates (to almost zero for qualifying industries) in Kansas, were, you guessed it, our good friends and benevolent benefactors, the Koch bros. So while they are raking in more dough than ever, the people of Kansas are in Oz.

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  19. Michael R. Kesti Avatar
    Michael R. Kesti

    George Rebane 01Dec2014 08:01 PM
    Thanks, George. It’s been quite a heritage day for me as, in addition to our exchange, I was contacted by a second cousin of whom I had no previous knowledge.

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  20. Russ Steele Avatar

    JoeK@10:26PM
    David Bruno the deputy publisher of Tax Analysts and contributing editor of State Tax Notes, has a different view on Kansas’s tax reduction policy that makes a lot of sense.
    I think it’s too early to tell if the Kansas experiment was a failure. It may be that the tax cuts have not been given enough time, because tax changes rarely have immediate consequences at the state level. I have often pointed out that tax increases almost never harm the economy in the short run. Neither businesses nor people move immediately after a tax increase. Corporations don’t sell their plants and equipment and move their workforce on short notice. And people don’t sell their houses, quit their country clubs, or take their kids out of school because the income tax rate goes up. I believe that increasing tax burdens harms economic development in the long run — it doesn’t happen overnight.
    Why would tax cuts be any different? Individual tax cuts will not cause a flood of new residents in the short run, and the ill-advised changes to exempt passthrough income will not cause budding entrepreneurs to immediately move to Lawrence or Topeka. But I do think those kinds of tax changes will have positive long-term effects on the overall economy.
    So what went wrong in Kansas? I think Brownback and Laffer oversold the short-term benefits of substantial tax cuts. Those benefits did not materialize. But it may be too early to know if the Kansas experiment is a long-term failure.

    Stay tuned, the Kansas experiment is still underway. We do not yet know the result of the long game.

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  21. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Joe Koyote | 01 December 2014 at 10:26 PM
    I don’t know the answer to that George, I’m not an expert in economics…..
    You probably should have stopped after this passage. For accuracy.

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  22. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    There is a point where tax increases reach a point where revenue decreases. An East Coast State that raised its cig taxes by dollars a pack receives less revenue than before the tax and it is not due to smokers quitting. Lucky for the neighboring state that is reaping the benefits of people crossing over the state line by thousands to buy cigs. Also, the exorbitant tax increases earmarked to fund certain programs now are broke and draining the State’s treasury.

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  23. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    I am in favor of getting rid of the property tax. Even if you own your home and property 100% you are still assessed and charged every year and if you fail to pay they can come take your home and property. I think it should be only a sales tax on goods, not services, and that is all. No more wondering when you get old or poor that you will lose your home.

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  24. Walt Avatar

    Yes, the family tree can be interesting. Yet some skeletons need to stay buried.( for some)
    Every once in a while I shake that tree just to see what falls out in the historical sense.
    Now when it get’s dug up for you,, like from the History channel,, that’s when it gets creepy. Lizzy Borden we knew about.( related by marriage) Now vampire-ism was a shocker.
    The family name gets mentioned and all ears perk up, and a collective ” what the Hell??”
    And everyone hits the computers to start their own digging to find out the rest of the story.

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  25. George Rebane Avatar

    JoeK 1026pm – With that it appears you think best to sidestep my perfectly reasonable 1100am inquiries. Although it is humorous (perhaps sad?) to see you represent the logical extension of your implied thesis as being “a bit dramatic” without the apparent ability to connect the dots.
    Another set of tightly connected dots that you and yours seem to miss is the following obvious sequence – at 0% and 100% tax rates govt revenues are zero, first because no monies are collected, and second because no monies can be collected. Tax rates in the middle provide demonstrable govt revenues, so there must be a region of tax rates that max out the collectable revenues beyond which revenues must again start declining to hit their zero level at the 100% rate. (Hint: the max does not occur at the 99% rate, or the 98% rate, or the 97% rate, or …)
    Now such thinking is beyond the ken of the progressive mind even though the (Laffer) principle has numerous analogues in both mathematics and the sciences. However, economics is at best a pseudo-science (it can neither make reliable predictions nor define feasible experiments to enable falsifiability), so its best use has been in the arena of the also somewhat dodgy social sciences and, of course, politics. In the latter, economics is dressed up in appropriate finery as needed to advance political agendas.

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  26. Walt Avatar

    Let me make it simple for Joe. ( this is fact btw.) When taxes were lower and government regulation was less, more people were working and paying taxes. ( and less on welfare)
    Tax revenue was was greater, because more people were paying into the pot.(and not smoking it) That is not the case today. Government has driven jobs from our land and those jobs are now on foreign soils. The national corporate tax is the highest in the world, yet LIBS say they don’t pay enough. That’s why the money they make stays “over there”, invested “over there”. Labor is cheaper “over there” as well.
    Yet LIBS demand we take in all this “cheap, unskilled labor” in the form of illegals,, who will in turn demand that 15 dollar minimum wadge. Not to mention putting them on the public dole.( more taxpayer money pissed away) But just raise taxes to pay for it all.(LIB thinking)

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  27. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Walt, Walt, Walt. Don’t you know that taxes and gobberment spending creates wage inflation? Where have you been? A little birdie from Chicago told me that. It’s been working so good that inflation adjusted household income is back to where it was 9 years ago. Tax and spend our way to a brighter tomorrow.
    My family tree is worth investigation on my Momma’s side but I have not bothered. There is the Stowe brothers, 11 of them where preachers and one had a wife named Harriet Beacher Stowe, the little lady whom Honest Abe quipped he finally got “to meet the woman who started the Civil War.”
    Then there was some dude who cornered the wheat market and as a direct result of his playfulness, the first set of new rules, regulations, and reforms where created for the stock market. The Hunt Bros were a century or more late to the party. And the little Irish tailor for the Queen of England who PpRently had a wee bit too much sense of humor for Victorian England and made the Queen a nice sexy outfit that had a wardrobe malfunction. The enraged Queen is said to have ordered the sweet gentle Irish tailor brought before her…with his head on a platter. He fled to America and changed his name. Someday I will check it out. Someday, but not today. The other side of the family tree is boring, just inventors and warriors, hustlers, an even a political cartoonist for The Chicago Sun. What a bunch of misfits. But if you ever come across a Tozer fire extinguisher in Europe, think of the tree.

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  28. Walt Avatar

    It is well worth the search Mr.T. It can make you see just how lucky you are just to have been born. Maybe how a forefather managed to cheat the hangman by getting sprung the night before the festivities in the town square. Hanging a traitor of the Crown was a big event.
    Since family lore goes for fact according to some elected LIBS ( Izzy Warren) ,, ” Family lore*” says Granddaddy of the Revolutionary war is responsible for the phrase,,” If you can’t beat’m,, join’m.” It was join the “terrorists” of the day ( That’s what LIBS call the revolutionists these days,, and the Tea Party today) or swing from a tree branch.
    I’m thankful he made the right designation.

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  29. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Only an idiot or a lib could defend a 5k very short plane ride with a straight face. Probably happens everyday. We have been bamboozled, but probably not for much longer down in the Bayou.
    http://freebeacon.com/politics/moderator-to-landrieu-youd-be-laughed-out-the-room-in-private-sector-for-your-flight-bills/

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  30. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Illinois has more gloom and doom on its balance sheets than the average bear. Won’t even discuss their headline making pension shortfall. That’s a poster child all in itself.
    They are near broke. So, what is a socialist collective to do? Why, walk deeper in the woods of course. That what bamboozlers do best. Not really even a choice. It’s the only thing they know how to do.
    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-illinois-obamacare-exchange-edit-1203-20141202-story.html

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  31. Paul Emery Avatar

    Here we have the Republicrats in full bloom. The Tea Party will be sent home to bed early with some cookies and milk while the big boys work it out.
    “WASHINGTON — Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has been dreaming about cutting major deals as Senate majority leader for most of his career. Next year, he’ll finally get the chance to do it with the Trans-Pacific Partnership, the most ambitious free trade agreement since the Clinton era. The only thing standing in his way is his own political party.”
    Read the whole article to get the picture.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/mitch-mcconnell-tpp-tea-party_n_6182126.html

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  32. Paul Emery Avatar

    More
    “Obama’s TPP is modeled on NAFTA, and like NAFTA, it almost certainly cannot pass without a policy called “fast-track” or “Trade Promotion Authority,” which strips Congress of the ability to amend or filibuster the legislation. The expanded presidential power first passed under Richard Nixon and was approved as a matter of course until the 1990s. Votes since have been politically contentious, failing in 1998 under Clinton, and squeaking by in 2002 under George W. Bush by a single vote. Fast-track authority expired with the passage of three trade pacts in 2011.
    Fast-track “is a very necessary predecessor to TPP, because you aren’t going to get these 12 countries to sign the TPP until they know the Senate and the House of Representatives can’t change it,” Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) told HuffPost. “They’re not going to negotiate the agreement twice.”

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  33. fish Avatar
    fish

    Here we have the Republicrats in full bloom. The Tea Party will be sent home to bed early with some cookies and milk while the big boys work it out.
    So are we for or against the fast tracking of a trade treaty that you have derided in the past Paul? From the tone of your post you almost seem gleeful that the “Tea Party”, who apparently are against it, seem destined to lose.
    Not to worry though….shouldn’t affect your NPR money.

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  34. Walt Avatar

    Private tax info was sent to the W.H. and now the the FEDS refuse to turn over that info.
    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/feds-balk-at-releasing-docs-showing-irs-sharing-tax-returns-with-white-house/article/2556890
    How bout that Paul?

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  35. Paul Emery Avatar

    Fish, do you know anything about TPP?
    I meant to point out that any idealism that the Tea Party types might feel with a Republican majority needs a reality check now that the true colors of Republican leadership is obvious.
    KVMR is not an NPR station Fish. Do your research before making stupid statements.

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  36. Walt Avatar

    Nice try Paul,, The “lame ducks” are still doing their damage and out of spite.
    As for the Tea Party, we are still young, and our numbers will grow with time. Election by election. Every election is RINO season. Even in this last election the Tea Party filled a tag or two.

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  37. Paul Emery Avatar

    Walt
    This has nothing to do with “lame ducks” but is about the mainstream Republicans and the Obama Democrats marching in goose step to pass TPP. Do you know anything about TPP Walt?

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  38. George Rebane Avatar

    For those interested, Wikipedia has a very nice description of TPP without any of the ideological flourishes found on many sites (including RR, I have my reasons for being against the current version of such a trade pact).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Pacific_Partnership

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  39. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    What is your view of the “fast track” process supported by the leadership of both parties?

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  40. fish Avatar
    fish

    Fish, do you know anything about TPP?
    Not a ton! I know that it is probably bad legislation and it really got Ben spun up.
    Again though…this is what you get when you let Big Government get off its leash. I don’t think that the Tea Party is under any delusions about the republican leadership and that the last election was solely about bloodying the Big Birds left wing.
    KVMR is not an NPR station Fish. Do your research before making stupid statements.
    No need to get defensive Paul…their was a lot of chat about NPR money last week…just fucking with you!

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  41. Walt Avatar

    I know PLENTY Paul,, the real question is uh,, do you? ( apparently not)

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  42. Walt Avatar

    How bout those Tea Party records given to the W.H. Paul? Now the W.H. refuses to turn them over. Yet LIBS still claim no corruption. Seems Nixon is owed a pardon long before all the illegals.
    I expect the din of crickets as usual.

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  43. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 1145am – I abhor it. That kind of ‘fast track’ is suitable for autocracies where the kingpin’s men negotiate what the kingpin approves of, and the legislature is just some window dressing rubber stamp thrown on later to keep the ruse of democracy going.

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  44. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Well, Gruber light has spoken. People oppose Barrycare cause they are financially illiterate, i.e., dumb as a bucket of rocks. We be a lot more financially literate if you quit hiding real numbers from us, ass wipes.
    http://m.cnsnews.com/mrctv-blog/curtis-kalin/sebelius-americans-have-low-financial-literacy

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  45. Walt Avatar

    I’m sure she was talking about the LIBS who believed in the word “free” and the people like Paul and Joe.
    The folks of the Tea Party had their number from the start, and opposed the bank breaking Obummercare. LIBS own it.

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  46. Walt Avatar

    Well Paul,, the Concervatives are not rolling over as you have said.(or hoped)
    http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/conservatives-scoff-at-boehner-deal-113280.html#ixzz3KqHFRKWp
    They are telling Bonehead to go pound sand. Yup that would be the Tea Party types.
    They are sticking to their word to the people.

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  47. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    The last line of this link says it all. Greenies can expect more of this until THEY pay their fair share. Money don’t grow on trees.
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/03/green-activists-ecuador-climate-change

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  48. George Rebane Avatar

    re BillT 506am – Mr Tozer’s link highlights a conference which Ms Robin Milam has helped organize and is attending. Readers may recall some of Ms Milam’s sentiments regarding initiatives like the Rights of Nature that she expanded on in these pages.
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2014/03/robin-milam-responds-on-rights-of-nature.html
    Regardless of one’s opinion about such avant garde thought, people like Ms Milam are dead serious about pursuing and implementing their beliefs into national agendas and international agendas like Agenda21 (q.v.)

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