Rebane's Ruminations
November 2014
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[Recall the little dustup between two Union editorial board members Ms Cheryl Cook and Mr Norm Sauer that was introduced here in 'Deconstructing America' that resulted in Ms Cook's resignation from that board?  Well, all the dust has yet to settle as we read Letters to the Editor in the 7nov14 Union (here).  There we see that one or two residual burrs remain under the liberals' blanket regarding Mr Sauer's reply.  Today Ms Judith McCarrick's letter is an almost embarrassing yet important expose of more misdirected meanderings of muddled minds.  Nevertheless, this kind of instructive voices should never be stilled, and The Union is to be lauded for bending backward to provide us such a 'balanced' voice which writes -

I was surprised to read Norm Sauer’s attack upon his fellow Editorial Board member at The Union, Cheryl Cook, and was appalled at his lack of civility and respect. … While he vehemently defends the sanctity of the Constitution, he finds it acceptable to use words such as “rant,” “diatribe,” “contempt” and “destruction” to belittle Ms. Cook’s own First Amendment rights. Hers was a thoughtful discussion of issues that Americans of conscience are concerned about in our current climate of violence, a climate that the framers of our Constitution could never have anticipated. Mr. Sauer lectures Ms. Cook about “our God-given inalienable (sic) rights that all men are created equal,” when, in truth we know that many groups of Americans are still not treated equally and women remain economically disadvantaged. But it is his disrespectful tone, directed specifically at the character of Ms. Cook, who is his equal, that I find most offensive. … Mr. Sauer’s verbal assault on a colleague raises questions about the composition and purpose of this board as effective representatives of our community.

Judith McCarrick, Nevada City  gjr] 

Posted in

118 responses to “Sandbox – 7nov14”

  1. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Walt,
    You are on the brink of seeing how the idea of a Free Market is a myth, keep going I am proud of you. Investment and building of infrastructure, rules, and enforcement of those rules are what create markets.

    Like

  2. fish Avatar
    fish

    Walt,
    You are on the brink of seeing how the idea of a Free Market is a myth, keep going I am proud of you. Investment and building of infrastructure, rules, and enforcement of those rules are what create markets.

    Sorry Walt but Ben is really correct in this instance. There are virtually no free markets because in a free market the government doesn’t collect its “skim” from the transaction.
    So you can see where a “free market” would be anathema to governments at all levels.
    In fact the notion of “free market” is almost as silly as the notion of a vast, well funded and activist government that exists to…snicker….serve the needs of the “masses”….guffaw…….CACKLE!!.
    (hold on….I’m going to need a moment to compose myself…….coffee out nose……just another second more….snort….whew……better now!……sigh!)
    Ben you gotta stop doing that to me so early in the a.m.! That was almost as funny as when Steve listed his various local beautification projects and “Climate Action Plan” preparation as evidence of real economic activity.
    I’ve heard it said that you leftists have no sense of humor. That’s crap….you guys crack me up on a near daily basis!

    Like

  3. Walt Avatar

    Ben. A few more people looking what to do next thanks to the “G”man. and LIB special interest.
    http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_COAL_MINERS_NEW_CAREERS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-11-09-11-09-23
    In today’s day and age, if a job is gone a Progressive killed it.

    Like

  4. George Rebane Avatar

    Free markets – yes, it is a relative term. Most people agree that in its purest form a jurisdiction supports a free market if you can sell anything to anyone, anywhere, any time at any price. That the jurisdiction takes a cut (tribute) of the transaction is really not a factor as long as such a cut doesn’t inhibit the transaction between willing sellers and buyers.
    ‘Free market’ as an economic reality has meanings in the aggregate and in its specifics. In the aggregate we think of a country supporting a free market when it permits free market transactions (defined above) for most goods and services without having to seek inhibiting permissions or paying stultifying tributes.
    Free markets can also exist for specific goods/services and not others.
    As such, we conservetarians believe in minimally regulated free markets as an ideal that promotes in society a broadly beneficial quality of life. Do we still have a free market in America? Not really; those days are long gone. But do we have a freer market here than, say, in China? Yes definitely.
    The free markets problem that we argue on RR is that collectivists of all stripes seek to diminish free markets in commerce, and conservetarians want to expand them. Thus endeth the epistle for the day 😉

    Like

  5. fish Avatar
    fish

    Free markets can also exist for specific goods/services and not others.
    Indeed! You can get a kilo of cocaine or a crate of AK-47s in a “free” or “black market”. In times of ham fisted government interference or under totalitarian regimes it is frequently the only place where you can get goods of (vegetables, meat, medicines etc.) decent quality. Maybe a little expensive but available!
    The Black Market is why the former Soviet Union never starved.

    Like

  6. George Rebane Avatar

    fish 956am – Right you are. All totalitarian regimes have tolerated black markets to allow their economies to creak along without, of course, admitting it. In the USSR such transactions were said to be ‘on the left’ or ‘nalevo’. (But black markets are really not free in the sense of my 929am.)
    Isn’t it interesting how easy it is to detect tyranny, even in its early stages? Approaching tyranny readily gives itself away to all but the most naïve who continue their loyalty, justifying its necessity as a means of dispensing equality and fairness. And some of them continue that support even as they are being led to the wall.

    Like

  7. fish Avatar
    fish

    The free market taken extremes becomes what is referred to as the “black market”. I found it entertaining that Ben was unable to explain commerce that didn’t require the guiding hand of government to make it function. Early trade fairs and the like that fostered modern trade all occurring without the 3rd rate minds at the Department of Commerce generating “mission statements” and providing networking facilitators.
    I think that his is a riff off some of the Cass Sunstein quotes that were floated shortly after he was made the “czar” of something or another.
    They couldn’t stuff him back into his sound proof case soon enough….can’t let what the proggies really think about business into the real world without guides and interpreters to cushion the impact.

    Like

  8. Walt Avatar

    Some LIBS LOVE the black market. they have even bragged about it, and have made excuses for it.
    I give you our local MJ profiteers. ” If it wasn’t for MJ Nevada County would go under”.
    yet these guys hate the idea of the “G”man getting his cut. ( taxes)

    Like

  9. fish Avatar
    fish

    Some LIBS LOVE the black market.
    Some do.

    Like

  10. Russ Steele Avatar

    More on the great divide between urban and rural in Thinking Out Loud
    Here a sample from the blog post:
    The Atlantic magazine took up this theme in a November 2012 article, that the US political divide was a rural-urban one:
    The new political divide is a stark division between cities and what remains of the countryside. Not just some cities and some rural areas, either — virtually every major city (100,000-plus population) in the United States of America has a different outlook from the less populous areas that are closest to it. The difference is no longer about where people live, it’s about how people live: in spread-out, open, low-density privacy — or amid rough-and-tumble, in-your-face population density and diverse communities that enforce a lower-common denominator of tolerance among inhabitants.
    The voting data suggest that people don’t make cities liberal — cities make people liberal. [My emphasis.]
    This divide is how things are trending:
    This divide between blue city and red countryside has been growing for some time. Since 1984, more and more of America’s major cities have voted blue each year, culminating in 2012, when 27 out of the nation’s 30 most populous cities voted Democratic. According to Dave Leip’s Atlas of U.S. Presidential Elections and The New York Times, the 2012 election marked the fourth time in the last five federal election cycles that voters shifted away from the party of the sitting president. Despite that constant churn, one part of the electoral map has become a crystal clear constant. Cities, year by year, have become drenched in more blue. Everywhere else is that much more red.
    Moreover:
    For years, this continues: Urban and rural counties jostling with a small pool of counties which go back and forth every couple of elections. There’s no real realignment, just a constant tug of war as the nation grows further divided.

    Like

  11. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    I noticed a post on Todd Juvinals blog that lefty jeffy went apoplectic about my post on Todd’s blog thanking the truth tells for their help on measure S. So over on lefty jeffies liberal lament land he shows the post hit a lefty jeffy tender spot. Then the sock puppet annie fox jumps in with more inanities. But what is worth noting is ‘her’ comment about no on s signs still being up (they are statutorily due down next week). The only place they were still up then was truckee. So who or what ever annie fox is, they are looking at the world with a truckee view out their window. Lefty jeffy just does not have the courage of his convictions to admit he loves his lefties and would have been pattie smiths supporter if she had not gone after lefty jeffies sacred cow diaz. 🙂

    Like

  12. George Rebane Avatar

    RussS 1224pm – could it be that it’s too difficult for the dependent and variously disadvantaged to live in low density areas where people have to make do, be social and helping, where anonymity is hard practice, especially if you are an asshole? High density areas have all the desiderata and support structures for such people and their lifestyles. Yet the wide open spaces still beckon. But when they arrive, they do everything possible to soil their new nests into similes of the ones they abandoned.

    Like

  13. Russ Steele Avatar

    Obama Virus Discovered – Causes Stupidity in Humans
    A virus that infects human brains and makes us more stupid has been discovered, according to scientists in the US.
    The algae virus, never before observed in healthy people, was found to affect cognitive functions including visual processing and spatial awareness.
    Scientists at Johns Hopkins Medical School and the University of Nebraska stumbled upon the discovery when they were undertaking an unrelated study into throat microbes.
    Surprisingly, the researchers found DNA in the throats of healthy individuals that matched the DNA of a virus known to infect green algae.

    So far, there is no evidence that “Going Green” Democrats are more vulnerable, more study needed.
    Details, it is a real virus: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/virus-that-makes-humans-more-stupid-discovered-9849920.html

    Like

  14. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Ben at 10:16 – “Investment and building of infrastructure, rules, and enforcement of those rules are what create markets.”
    Nope – demand is what creates markets. The above mentioned are modifiers of the market. We can all agree that rules of conduct – enforced EQUALLY are most important. When the govt starts putting it’s thumb on the scales of fairness, equality goes out the door and businesses end up subsidizing their competitors. And corruption becomes rampant in govt.
    More govt involvement in the market equals more corruption in govt.
    It’s that simple. We can strive for a free market. Just because we can’t have a perfect free market doesn’t make the principles of a free market bad.

    Like

  15. George Rebane Avatar

    ScottO 704pm – The good news is that in a society with advancing technology, it is also supply that creates markets. No one demanded cars until they were made available, the same with TV’s, airplanes, smartphones, etc. But governments seem to have a monopoly in mangling and strangling markets.

    Like

  16. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Black Market? Sounds racist to me.
    Cuba is keeping a blind eye on it’s growing black market. Growing? Yes. Castro Bros. in the dark? No. It’s a necessary evil to the Revolutionaries in charge. They have discovered they need dollars, badly. The black market provides the country with much need US dollars. Of course the People’s Revolutionary Government of Cooobaaa runs the currency exchange and takes their outlandish cut as well as the dollars. Retailers accepting Greenbacks is a crime….a crime against the Revolution.

    Like

  17. Walt Avatar

    Where is good ol’ Ben when ya’ need to force feed him? He loves to yap about the stupidity of the voters.
    Here is a LIB spilling the beans on just that.
    http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/09/obamacare-architect-lack-of-transparency-was-key-because-stupidity-of-the-american-voter-would-have-killed-obamacare/
    Only the majority of LIBS fell for the “free health care” line of crap.

    Like

  18. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    I would disagree partially about supply creating demand. Early automobiles were literally horseless carriages. There is always demand for better transportation. Millions of folks wanted to get rid of the horse. It was expensive to maintain when not in use and the poop in the cities was a terrible health problem. They may not have exactly envisioned what a carriage with out a horse was, but they sure took to it as soon as it became inexpensive and reliable. The ‘demand’ for the auto was always there in the form of ‘demand’ for a contrivance to sit in and go some where without having to tire one’s self. The auto was simply the latest iteration going back to sedan chairs and dog sleds and such. There are a lot of electronic gadgets that are unknown to the public until they are released for sale, but I would argue that if they are popular, they must have filled a demand at some level that was always there. So maybe the demand is not always there for the exact item offered for sale, but it must fulfill some sort of need that previously existed in some basic way. Was there a ‘demand’ for Hula Hoops before Whammo marketed them? One could easily argue not. Who was going into toy stores and asking for a cheap plastic hoop to twirl around their waist? No one. But in a more general way, there exists (then and now) an ongoing demand for a simple new type of amusement.
    Gets down to semantics. Is there a market for avacados amongst those who have never heard of them? But there is always a demand (market) for a new type of enjoyable and tasty food.
    Now – is there a market for energy that is inefficient to produce and more expensive than the energy it is to replace? Of course not.
    But the govt needs to force you to buy it in order that connected crooks can run their scams. The crooks get richer and you have no choice but to pay them. I kinda like the free market better.

    Like

  19. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Walt, thanks for the link. BTW, Brother Ben has stated many many times he does not like Obamacare but prefers single payer. Obamacare simply does not go far enough. It’s one thing to have health insurance and quite another to have health care. People sign up for Obamacare not cause they like it, but rather it is illegal not to. That will drive numbers any day of the week.
    Walt, once again your link provided me with another link. This is something that I really enjoyed tonight and what I have been looking for ever since the election results came in. Definitely worth the enjoyment to read all 16 posts. Thank you again Mr. Walt. U B Da Man.
    http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/05/the-16-most-epic-democratic-underground-meltdowns-over-the-2014-republican-rout/

    Like

  20. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Scott, good thoughts. While I do not necessarily disagree with your thought out response, allow me to add my take.
    How many of us grew up without a computer like generations before us only to discover that we wanted one. Through time, availablity, price reductions, and improvements we discovered that a computer became no longer a want, but a need.
    Now my real point. Remember that story of Adam and Eve running around the garden of Eden before the fig leaf days. They had everything. No wants, no needs, no pain, no aging, no death, all was good. Plus they talked to God everyday and walked in the cool of Eden. No bloodshed, no toil. What more could anyone want or need? All that was destroyed in seconds by less than 12 words. Look at the apple. See how appealing it is. Go ahead, take a bite. You see how it glistens, calling your name….hmmmm, does it not look so tasty, so delicious, so appealing and….drumroll please….it has special powers that will make you like God. Chomp, chomp, end of Eden.
    That IMHO, is the root of all advertising. And all advertising had not changed a lick since then. Create a want that people did not know they had and turn that want into a need. Feel like a lonely bored housewife? Heck, light up a Virginia Slims are you are empowered. You have come a long way, baby. Like your cell phone? Well, can YOUR cell phone do this? Sure, you cell phone is only 6 months old, but you want, you need, you now desire this new one. You gotto,gotto,gotto,gotto have it!
    Yes, we do have needs, needs to make our lives better or easier. That is why necessity is the mother of invention. But, I have often pondered what was the need of the first human to lick that jungle frog’s underbelly and discovered it would make him or her hallicinate. What caused that person to look at the frog and lick it’s belly? What want or need was unfulfilled? Another one of life’s great mysteries.

    Like

  21. George Rebane Avatar

    ScottO 828pm – Scott, the tack you take with your demand argument creates a self-fulfilling tautology. One can always maintain that humans want more and different kinds of sustenance, comfort, security, amusement, …, therefore every thing that satisfies one of those categories of wants or needs will be seen as demand creating markets. But that is not the way most free market economists (and I) interpret markets. Markets are usually identified as being the arenas where certain types of things are exchanged – there is a market for wheat, for roof shingles, and also for hula hoops and smart phones. But the markets for hula hoops and smart phones, and hence the demand for those things, would not have existed had not someone invented them and established a business to manufacture and make them available for a consumer to consider buying. Such market innovations involve ‘push’ and therefore are deemed to be supply originated and driven.

    Like

  22. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Scott,
    Wages are what create demand, people having money to spend creates demand. A person can need a new roof but doesn’t have the money so the roof isn’t ever contracted to be put on. That was the whole idea oddly enough behind Ford raising his wages for his workers. It was actually an adviser/ partner who fought Ford over it and won the argument. This action started the idea that corporations legal obligation is to make money first for its shareholders in the Dodge vs. Ford decision.

    Like

  23. fish Avatar
    fish

    …….wages are what create demand, people having money to spend creates demand.
    And the source of these demand generating wages would be?

    Like

  24. George Rebane Avatar

    fish 458am – The exact question that my extended slumber made me late in asking this morning (what the hell are you doing up at 5am?). I do hope that BenE will take a swing at an answer – it would be most interesting.

    Like

  25. fish Avatar
    fish

    ……what the hell are you doing up at 5am?
    Any grave shift posting by me can almost always be attributed to:
    1) Canine needs
    2) Mild insomnia coupled to an insatiable lust for “Peet’s Coffee”!
    3) Preparation for the morning commute.

    Like

  26. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “Wages are what create demand”
    So, if there is no money, no one wants anything.
    No food, no shelter, no clothing – nothing.
    Must be a nice existence in that other universe you live in, Ben.
    I will agree that if I have more money, I’d buy more, but then if the govt takes it away, (higher taxes) there is less to invest or spend, so the economy suffers. The part of the equation you lefties miss is how the money is obtained. If the workers’ wages are based on a free market between a willing buyer and seller, then it works. If the wages are increased by the govt or an outside force beyond the value the employer receives from the worker, then the employer will either go out of business, raise prices, (negating the raise) take the jobs elsewhere or automate and get rid of workers. Anyone expending their own money must be able to make a free decision as to how much they want to pay for a service, product or whatever. They alone will have the best information as to what the actual value for money is at that time and for that product or service.

    Like

  27. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 10 November 2014 at 08:46 AM
    So, if there is no money, no one wants anything.
    Bens economic “Order of Operations” reminds me a bit of the old Steve Martin routine about how to be a millionaire and never pay taxes….
    First….get a million dollars!

    Like

  28. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Bill at 9:55 – as for advertising – yes, one can definitely gin up demand for something with the right ad. I highly recommend a book entitled ‘They Laughed When I Sat Down’. Amazon lists used ones for less than a buck. Highly educational and entertaining book about modern advertising.

    Like

  29. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Just got back from the DMV. The whole process reminds me of the last scene in “Beetlejuice” when Michael Keaton swiped the ticket from the headhunter. My GOD what have we wrought in this state? It is the most ridiculous system! Now I see why it is used as an example of what is happening woth ObamaCare. We are screwed!

    Like

  30. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Chris Hedges says what many of us are feeling on the left. The difference between liberals and progressives has never been clearer.
    LIBERALS ARE USELESS
    http://asitoughttobe.com/2009/12/08/chris-hedges/

    Like

  31. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Todd,
    10 November 2014 at 09:58 AM
    Now just imagine being the working poor and having to take a day off work to stand in line to get an official ID to vote?

    Like

  32. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Ben Emery, you gotta be kidding? I can’t believe you think the poor are so stupid they can’t figure out how to get an ID. Why are you so derisive of them? They are as capable;e as you and me to obtain an ID and I bet they too can walk and chew gum at the same time. What are you? A reincarnated plantation owner?

    Like

  33. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    We all have to take time off to get an ID or wait for the phone guy or see the doctor or transfer a vehicle or……..life is sooo hard. A trail of tears I tell ‘ya.

    Like

  34. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Fish @8:45am, 11/10/2014
    “What the Sam Hill are you doing up at 5:00am?”
    Early to bed, early to rise.

    Like

  35. fish Avatar
    fish

    Early to bed, early to rise.
    Very funny William!
    Early to chair….fall asleep, book in hand about three minutes later! Drag carcass to bed at 9:30….get up at 2:00 am to relieve internal pressure…return to a sea of expectant furry, black and tan faces….release the assembled masses into back yard for 10 minutes…..rinse and repeat at 3:00a and again at 5:00a!
    Sigh!

    Like

  36. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 1107am – According to your lights what distinguishes a ‘liberal’ from a ‘progressive’?
    Is there any evidence that anyone has had to “take a day off work to stand in line to get an official ID to vote”? I venture that if voters needed IDs and stated that need, then 1) there would be a location with no line whatsoever that would serve them, and 2) a call to the local (Democratic) party HQ would get them convenient and free transport to get that ID.

    Like

  37. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Ben Emery, if a person can travel over to Sam’s Club or to Costco, join the membership, you get a GASP! Photo ID! I am sure there are many more companies in this great country that do the same.

    Like

  38. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    You guys really cannot sympathize with another person can you?

    Like

  39. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George,
    We don’t have ID Laws in CA. So I am obviously not talking about CA. I am talking about almost every swing state that has a Republican legislature that passed the ID Laws.
    You work 50 hours a week Monday – Friday for $10 an hour with no benefits for a boss who doesn’t give a shit if you vote or not just if you show up on time and stay late. Your work day starts at 7am because you take public transportation to work. Your work day ends at 7pm with the public transportation home. You have a wife and young child. The nearest DMV is 20 minutes from where you work with at least one transfer but you only have an hour lunch break at the same time a million other people have a lunch break.
    Would you take a day off work to go stand in line to obtain a photo ID recognized by the polls?

    Like

  40. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    States are already picking those without an ID and transporting them on the taxpayer’s dime to the local iD office. Those are states that want to guarantee that only citizens legally vote, the states that actually care about all who are entitled to vote, the states that care so deeply they are willing to stand up to fraud and abuse. They even bend over backwards to expedite the process. Bring your electric bill and whatever you got and they will help you obtain a legal ID. No postage stamp necessary.
    All states that boarder the deep blue Pacific Ocean do not care who votes legally. They do not give a hoot about the sanctity of the ballot box. Must be that Citizen of the World thang, where American’s interest always always take a back seat to
    other two-bit countries, places, and things. We’re #2, we’re #2!

    Like

  41. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 906am – nice archetypical progressive anecdote, but no evidence – and you did totally ignore my 818am points, now abetted by Mr Tozer’s 909am.
    And to your question I answer a most emphatic YES! if that were the only path available for me to exercise my most sacrosanct responsibility as a citizen of republican democracy.

    Like

  42. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Fish,
    “And the source of these demand generating wages would be?”
    Drum roll………
    “LIFE”
    At the absolute minimum we need shelter, food, clothing, and medical. Go ahead and start making the list of items and products that are needed for these absolute basic necessities. Once the basic necessities are met alternative markets begin to spin off from there to either make the production of the basic goods easier or possibly pleasure

    Like

  43. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Fish,
    “In fact the notion of “free market” is almost as silly as the notion of a vast, well funded and activist government that exists to…snicker….serve the needs of the “masses”….guffaw…….CACKLE!!.”
    I agree. There has never been a totally responsive government but that doesn’t mean we don’t try to achieve does it?
    That is the dance we all play everyday, you guys in your quest for the mythical free market and my representative government.

    Like

  44. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Scott,
    I actually agree with most of what you wrote. I am actually a proponent of creating a local currency to get off of the magical currency the Federal Reserve produces with interest attached to it(for the people not for the big banks). A primitive currency that is a step above barter. The problem is getting enough people to participate initially to make it viable.
    This local currency would in no way replace the US Dollar but just allow us to participate in some parts of our lives without propping the system that we all disagree with at some level. A few years back something like this was being tried in Nevada City but not enough people got on board, so it never really went anywhere.

    Like

  45. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Ben Emery | 11 November 2014 at 09:17 AM
    So then I can take this as an admission that “demand” for things…commodities….shelter…..etc. precedes? It seemed that you didn’t believe that a functional economy could start until everybody had pockets full of money!

    Like

  46. fish Avatar
    fish

    That is the dance we all play everyday, you guys in your quest for the mythical free market and my representative government.
    Partial credit….let me just tighten this up for you a bit!
    That is the dance we all play everyday, you guys in your quest for the free market and my mythical representative government.
    Yeah…that seems to reflect reality a little more.

    Like

  47. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Fish,
    I get your point but that is the foundation of demand. Demand in economics is created by wages. We are talking about economics/ wealth correct?
    This is where we all get weaselly with the way we approach topics. There are distinctions that we all know exist but fail to recognize when it suits our argument.

    Like

  48. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Ben’s scenario (9:09am) portrays a person who is too busy to even make it to the ballot box to vote. That is why people like moi who usually work late on Tuesdays (elections fall every couple of years on Tuesdays, do they not?) vote by mail if we chose to.
    Once that poor down trodden person of the oppressed class in those other states register to vote with a valid ID, they can kick down for the cost of postage and fill out their ballot in their leaky almost falling down abode with no indoor plumbing and somehow make it to a mailbox with weeks to spare. It’s a one time thang, just like getting a passport. Renewal by mail, vote by mail. One day off work is the sacrifice we all make to have our opposed voices heard.
    As Ben correctly pointed out, the bossman McScrooge does not care if his indentured servants vote. It is up to the voter to make the effort. Freedom is not free and the cost of liberty is eternal vigilance, I.e., effort.
    Makes me wonder what the poor suffering hard working slaves do when they get “the call” from the school telling them to come down to pick up their child, bad Dezarrai now. What happens when they get that call from the medics that sweet little Soshamm got hit by a car riding his bike after school and get to the ER now. Guess the opposed working class can not make it when those calls come in, usually at exactly the wrong time. You know those calls that the poor worker ignores because they are helpless and care more about making another 20 bucks than leaving work early to attend to family emergencies or vote. They are sooo materialistic.
    Is there no justice granted by the oppressor to the oppressed?

    Like

  49. fish Avatar
    fish

    Posted by: Ben Emery | 11 November 2014 at 11:53 AM
    We are talking about economics/ wealth correct?
    I no longer know.
    I get your point but that is the foundation of demand. Demand in economics is created by wages.
    You seem to proceed from two separate premises.
    The first (and correct me if I am interpreting you in error) is:
    “Drum roll………
    “LIFE”
    The second is: “Demand in economics is created by wages”
    At least with the first you can start your argument. Human needs cause people to engage in behaviors to maintain their own lives and the lives of their offspring (hunting, agriculture etc.) This leads over time to trade and specialization. Over a longer interval a mature economy, similar to what we are familiar developed.
    The second appears to be warmed over Keynesian nonsense and is reminiscent to the Steve Martin routine I mentioned yesterday…”how do you become a millionaire and never pay taxes…..first…get a million dollars”! Using your “wages create demand” argument there doesn’t seem to be any way to get from point A to point B.
    How without the slow evolution of primitive to sophisticated economies do you ever get to the “wages cause demand” stage?

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  50. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Fish,
    Basic foundations to live isn’t about creating wealth it is about sustenance. That is the starting point. Even then it is a collective culture, everybody has their job to perform so the whole can survive. Economics is about wealth creation and distribution.
    As we start to come out of sustenance living into larger communities where markets begin to evolve we begin to shape the rules of that market. If a market is going to branch out from sustenance only fair compensation or credit has to be worked into the equation otherwise the market will eventually collapse on itself either economically or morally. That is what I believe you guys call self regulating market. My problem with that is all the indirect players who suffer before the threshold of self regulation happens. Dog eat dog world isn’t a very peaceful world is it.

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