Sandbox – 30oct14

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October 2014
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Sandbox – 30oct14

30 October 2014

[The last sandbox got a little putrid as it filled up. Let's see if this one can avoid that taint. gjr]

Posted in Comment Sandbox

99 responses to “Sandbox – 30oct14”

John

30 October 2014

Your sense of humor has made this depressing exchange more enjoyable fish, thank you. Definite Mommy issues on display here with our clinical case.

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fish

30 October 2014

Posted by: John | 30 October 2014 at 11:47 PM
He is a challenging case!
/”nasty nobody political operative who doesn’t even live in our community” signing off.

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Larry Wirth

31 October 2014

Brother Rebane, I
think your admonition at the intro to this sandbox fell on deaf ears and the current thread is again turning it into a kitty litterbox. The writers should take their lead from your comments which are (almost)always civil and well thought out.
For those who don’t know me (including everyone except you and Russ) I live in Arizona and don’t follow this blog to keep up with the latest invective among the readers/commenters.
People, keep it civil and avoid personal attacks on one another; that makes things much more interesting. L

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Larry Wirth

31 October 2014

And by the way, if I correctly remember my own experience in the US Army, the correct rendering is “load and lock,” not “lock and load as so often expressed by folks who never served. Someone please correct me if I’m wrong… L

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Bill Tozer

31 October 2014

Mr. Wirth. I do not know when the backwards term lock and load became popular. I have used it myself on occasion, and that recently and tongue in cheek, knowing it was wrong but not caring. I do not really care to research when this popular lingo version of “load and lock” came into being, but I sounds like a play off “rock and roll” and used that way by me.
I can only summarize the term was popularized by a Hollywood movie, a song, or pulp fiction. Perhaps it was used after 9/11, specifically a misquote from the passengers on the plane that crashed into the ground in Penn “let’s roll.” I sometimes play off “thanks, thanks a lot” with “tanks, tanks a rock” or tanks, tanks a rocket.”
Everyone knows that “rock and roll” and “ro-dee-o” are synonymous.

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Barry Pruett

31 October 2014

I have not told many people yet, but we are rolling out a new law firm in Grass Valley with four attorneys in a dramatic expansion into a couple thousand feet of space. We will be having a grand opening in the winter sometime, and we will be inviting all of you to attend…including lefty Jeffy.

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Bill Tozer

31 October 2014

Any who deee oars? Good news, Mr. Pruett. Plus, you just gave BubbaBubba a scoop.
No offense, Mr.Pruett, but every day I do not need your services nor head to the courthouse is a good day. 😉

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Barry Pruett

31 October 2014

No offense taken. Most folks do not realize that being involved in any lawsuit is a very emotionally taxing. Folks complain that they think about their lawsuit constantly and in fact lose weight and sleep as a direct result. I rather enjoy my estate planning clients and the kids that I represent. I have guardianship of a ten year old that introduces me to people as her lawyer. Very cute. Regardless Bill, we will see you in the winter for a cocktail.

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George Rebane

31 October 2014

LarryW 1209am – I’m afraid the years take their toll on all of us in different ways;-) As a junior officer – US Army Artillery, 1/Lt(ret) – I often had to run the range since we were a STRAC combat battalion. I continue as an active shooter and member of the local club that operates its excellent rifle/pistol and trap ranges, in addition to a world-class archery range. I serve my club duty as Range Safety Officer, which for me is being range master of the rifle/pistol range (e.g. that’s where I was last Sunday afternoon). Tattooed on the inside of my eyelid from my Army days is the following litany –
‘Ready on the right, ready on the left, … ready on the firing line!’
‘Lock and load one round ball ammunition, … commence firing!’
It’s always ‘lock and load’ because locking your piece is the traditional term for putting the safety on. You always safe your firearm before loading or feeding in a round. Then the safety comes off when you hear the command ‘commence firing’ The term ‘ball ammunition’ is also a hold over from the days of actual ball ammunition and early rifle bullets which had a rounded end. Today it means shooting FMJ or full metal jacket rounds. Hope this helps.
A little histrivia addendum. ‘Lock and load!’ was also the command given in the WW1 trenches before going over the top. To go over the parapet you either had scramble up a mud wall or climb a crude ladder. At that point the GIs had to have their pieces charged and on safe so that no one would get shot should someone trip and fall. Similar to ‘Off and on!’, the call ‘OK, lock and load!’ also became slang in the Army and Marines that was short for ‘Get ready, we’re about to …’.

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fish

31 October 2014

Posted by: Barry Pruett | 31 October 2014 at 05:46 AM
Congrats Barry! Well done!

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Scott Obermuller

31 October 2014

George – thanks for the back story on lock and load. It always did seem the wrong way around to me, even though I heard it from a great number of folks that did serve. A lot of them saw combat in Nam. L and L had become, as you point out a common short hand expression for ‘ready to go? let’s hit it.’ Another similar term from that era was based on the fact that the M16 was able to operate at semi-auto single fire or full auto. Selecting full auto was known by many as ‘rock and roll’. Returning vets would continue to use that term as a signal for a sharp increase in intensity of what ever activity was going on.

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Joe Koyote

31 October 2014

“Corporations don’t make the rules and take our money at gunpoint – the govt does. ” An absolutely correct observation with one major omission.. corporations provide the money to promote and elect the morons who take our money at gunpoint. A slight difference. “Government” isn’t a person but rather a collection of laws, rules, and regulations. “Government” didn’t create those laws, it can’t as it is not a living thing. The laws were created by the people who got elected via campaign contributions most of which from special interests and many with strings attached. In America, government is bought and paid for by the highest bidders.

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Joe Koyote

31 October 2014

special to Carp er fish — It’s OK that you comment on national/regional political affairs from your roost in Carmichael.. but you really should stay out of the local mud pit . Since you don’t live here, you really have no business commenting on local people and issues. It makes me wonder if your day job isn’t as a paid political shill/shit stirrer by some right wing Koch Bros. financed non-profit issue organization whose purpose is to rally and/or rile up the peanut gallery.

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fish

31 October 2014

Posted by: Joe Koyote | 31 October 2014 at 09:31 AM
If your thesis is correct what do you propose to remedy this situation?

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fish

31 October 2014

Posted by: Joe Koyote | 31 October 2014 at 09:42 AM
Glad I have your blessing to comment on specific things JoKe! Much to jeffys…and your chagrin I’m probably the least political guy on the board! My voting record is spotty. I haven’t contributed to a candidate or specific legislation in years! A significant fraction of the social issues that you lefty nitwits favor I’m fairly sanguine about. As an example, I’m neither for nor against your marijuana initiative…..I don’t think there should be any laws that apply at all until an operation becomes legitimate agriculture (an issue of size only). I am utterly indifferent to who marries who! And while I find the practice personally abhorrent (especially as practiced and celebrated in its later stages) fairly pro choice.
I must say though that I’m am really digging being accused by the jeffster last night and you just now of being some sort of nefarious and shadowy political secret agent funded (I wish) by the Koch Bros!
Sorry JoKe….your little hamlet just isn’t important enough to rate that kind of attention.
I will make you a counter proposal. I am here primarily because jeffy insists on displaying his trough snorkel in the SacBee and making a bad newspaper…..my newspaper……worse than it would be otherwise. That and the fact that after getting to know him over the past 18 months witnessing him demonstrate what truly vile and reptilian swine he is. If you can talk him into confining his activities to the Union and his ….ahem….”Report” then I shall happily depart.
Otherwise I’m happy to play in your “mud pit” as long as George will permit me!

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George Rebane

31 October 2014

ScottO 902am – and thank you for that good addition. Yes indeed, ‘Rock and roll!’ meant exactly that, turn up the intensity of whatever you’re doing, and for an infantry man that most likely meant going from semi- to auto-. Of interest is that we still carried the heavier M14 (7.62mm or civilian 308 Winchester) that also fired semi- and auto-. But that assault rifle had a removable selector switch. For regular duty they were set to semi- and I as battery exec always had a canvas bag with about 150 selector switches in my ‘jeep’ (actually the M151 made by Ford). At the range I would hand them out to the clean-up detail after the regular troops doing training had left. We enjoyed quite a few sunsets/twilights firing our M14s on full auto, sometimes with the magazines loaded with all tracers. (My big fear was always that after the fun was over I would collect one fewer selector than I handed out.)
JoeK 931am – Thanks for weighing in on a good topic. Don’t we say ‘government makes laws’ just as a shorthand for the institution doing the making? And similarly don’t people blame corporations for being evil, etc for the same reason? We all know it’s the people in both institutions, but it is the structure of the institution that empowers its people to do what they do and how they do it.
“In America, government is bought and paid for by the highest bidders.” Well yes; but you seem to single out America for some reason. Do you know of governments in which that is not true?
BTW, I do enjoy Mr fish’s comments about our local scene, even though he lives in the flats. Since we know he is a well-read and thinking ‘Ausländer’, his perspective might be useful per se. My only concern is that he is too easily co-opted by the occasional idea-free progressive who takes him to task. Wish I had a ‘selector switch’ to turn him away from auto-response to the more measured semi-mode in which he might ignore the slings and arrows 😉

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fish

31 October 2014

Posted by: George Rebane | 31 October 2014 at 10:24 AM
In my defense George I have been measured on a number of occasions while commenting here. I would offer the counter that I find you eminently reasonable in your interaction with your ideological opposition here and observe that it is largely ineffective. That’s why I am intrigued by your latest post on the “progressive ten commandments”. Here you are getting to the heart of the matter….that their beliefs are all that matters….their politics based on faith and lefty catechism alone! I imagine that the histrionics will be spectacular.
As for my tone…..I think we are long past the point of being reasonable! Let the rubble bounce!

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Walt

31 October 2014

With that logic JoeK,, Jeffy should stop contributing in Sac. But “he’s different”… Right?

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Walt

31 October 2014

As for keeping “comments local” I call BS on that play. I would love to see comments from anywhere. Sea to sea, boarder to boarder,, or anywhere on this third rock from the Sun.
( George would be MORE than pleased to get a post from ISS..)
As for farther out, he already gets plenty from the “moonbeam Galaxy”,, and the “Dooby nebula(izer)”. ( FAR OUT,,, Mannnn,,,…)

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George Rebane

31 October 2014

fish 1034am – Thank you for the kind words. But I would remind you that we are not so much expecting to change the minds of our opposites as we are jousting for the benefit of the independent or mid-road readers. What you are engaged here in these comments streams may be considered ‘literary display art’, and you bring a unique ideological position to these pages. The times may require us to be eloquent while standing in rubble, but that is our lot – the show must go on – cast your net widely!

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fish

31 October 2014

<i.Posted by: George Rebane | 31 October 2014 at 11:13 AM
Point taken. I’ll see if I can dial it back a bit.
It is likely I’ll need a refresher in the future….keep the whip hand ready 😉

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Joe Koyote

31 October 2014

George 10:24 — I single out America because that is where I live and that is the system I am most familiar with, but you are correct in that the same applies to any kind of government that has elections. The world is ruled by moneyed interests whether elected or enforced.
” Don’t we say ‘government makes laws’ just as a shorthand for the institution doing the making?” True, however, I think such shorthand depersonalizes what is ultimately a personal issue. Government is people and it is the specific people who should be held accountable for misdeeds and stupid decisions. This is much like incorporation that allows the individuals who make decisions to escape accountability for their misdeeds. Instead of “government makes laws,” the discussions should revolve around issues like: congresspersons X,Y, and Z introduced a bill; it was voted into law by congress persons A through M who received campaign contributions from corporations P, Q, and R and individuals S, T, and U and nonprofit issue organizations W, X, and Y. Such discussion, I think, would better put things into a more accurate perspective than “gov’t did this and that.” It seems as if every time a law is passed someone somewhere is making a buck off it and probably contributed heavily to its passage. That is the nature of the beast regardless of politics. Politics is just the smokescreen foisted on the people to make them think they actually have some kind of say in “government.”

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Joe Koyote

31 October 2014

Walt — I did not say fish can’t contribute, I just think his commenting on local issues and people is out of place for someone who does not live here. That’s all folks.

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George Rebane

31 October 2014

JoeK 1245pm – OK, fair enough as long as we all understand that the disease is widespread over both space and time, and IMHO it is definitely not restricted to “any kind of government that has elections” – autocracies are notorious for the elites having control over their governments’ laws and regs (and which ones they choose to apply and follow).
I have no problem looking beneath the institutional veils of government and corporations. I am especially keen on holding the corporate boards accountable for what the corporation does as policy (not day-to-day operations). However, in its application I do demand that corporations are also held innocent until proven guilty of malfeasance over what they had control. The absolute farce that has pervaded the BP gulf oil spill settlements is a case in point. To me it demonstrates that our judicial system is past broken, and I have yet to find the proper descriptor for it (perhaps the language has not coined the needed word/phrase).

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Bill Tozer

31 October 2014

Joe K. the internet makes us all local. If I want to comment on some one horse town having the dog catcher and crew come to my house and inspect it and search the inside of the refrigerator and under my bed before I am allowed to pick up a kitten from the pound (save it from the doggie gas chamber) then I will comment on their folly no matter where in Bum, Egypt the village is.
Just being on the world wide web (that Al Gore invented) makes it all local. And, my good man, all politics are local.
I never never walk or drive into Nevada City unless I absolutely have to. Can’t even think of an emergency that is dire enough to pick up the Hysterical District’s dust on my worse pair of slippers, but I suppose I would allow the town’s demons and evil spirits that hover over sorry spot to darken my essence if the emergency was severe enough.
I will darn sure comment on the crystal worshipers haunting the formerly nice air in Nevada City or the park in Santa Cruz that banned all smoking, fireworks displays, and all barbque pits because of air pollution, yet passed a special ordinance to make it legal to smoke wacky tobaccy dope in the park. If there is a web, there is a way. Some put that in your NIMBY pipe and inhale deeply, hold, exhale. Fingers on a keyboard makes the world local, and I have a special typing finger waving at you, dear sweet imbelicle.

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Todd Juvinall

31 October 2014

Joe is a typical liberal. They have all these nuanced ways they want to enforce to squelch speech. Now it is “locals” only can speak to “local” issues. So predictable. I would suggest JoeK tell Pelline to stop sending his tripe to the Sac Bee and polluting the region if that is the case. For me, more the merrier. JoeK is afraid and I get that liberals are , what did the White House call Bibi?, Oh, chicken sh**. JoeK should just keep his tripe about squelching speech to himself becasue it makes him look and sound like an East German Stasi creep.

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Scott Obermuller

31 October 2014

Corporations can provide all the money they want, but it’s the voters that decide. Since lefties all claim the elections are paid for, why doesn’t Joe the K and other lefties admit who paid them for their vote? Corporate execs used to be accountable as their bad decisions would lead to their ousters. Now they can call up some one in DC and get a bail out. So can whiny idiot citizens if they are numerous enough. How many home owners got bail outs when they should have done jail time for lying on their loan applications? Remember the moron in LA that had more than the FDIC insured amount in his bank account? Yep – the govt caved and gave him what he wasn’t even owed. Now we have the future of our nation all crying about how much they owe on their student loans. And they want a bail out. Add up what we give to the whiners and dead beats and non-productive citizens and then compare that to what corporations get. Don’t forget the auto workers bailout at GM and Chrysler. Long term law was torn up and hard working bond holders got screwed out of what was legally theirs. GM workers are getting huge bonuses and the tax payers are getting shafted. When was the last time you heard any from the ‘green’ party talk about ending all govt subsidies and bailouts for corps. Never. Their precious green nonsense requires the same sort of collusion between govt and industry that Joe the K claims he doesn’t like.
Only the Tea Party types and folks like McClintock will stop the govt give-aways.

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Larry Wirth

31 October 2014

George, memory does indeed fail us (some of the time). Curious, I investigated the origins of “lock and load” vs. “load and lock” and discovered it’s not quite as simple as firing range instructions. Both phrases have been in use for quite a while. Google is sometimes instructive.
Certainly my own instruction on use of the M-14 I never heard either command or anything like it. Also, during qualification firing, I did not set the safety while reloading. It wastes time. Also, because it’s totally unnecessary. When a magazine was exhausted, the receiver was open; inserting a new magazine meant nothing until the bolt was released, only then was a safety needed.
Similarly, if a magazine was inserted into an M-14 with the bolt closed, no safety was needed. Only “cocking” and releasing the bolt would chamber a round. L

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Joe Koyote

31 October 2014

Scott: “Corporations can provide all the money they want, but it’s the voters that decide.” — true but statistics tell us that whoever spends the most usually wins giving a huge funding advantage to corporate backed candidates. I am not caught up in the lefty/righty distraction that seems to cloud your vision. What about my post at 12:45 did you not understand?
Scott: “Since lefties all claim the elections are paid for, why doesn’t Joe the K and other lefties admit who paid them for their vote?”
Joe’s 12:45 post ” Instead of “government makes laws,” the discussions should revolve around issues like: congresspersons X,Y, and Z introduced a bill; it was voted into law by congress persons A through M who received campaign contributions from corporations P, Q, and R and individuals S, T, and U and nonprofit issue organizations W, X, and Y.”
Doesn’t this address the issue of who paid for a vote? It would cover lefties, righties, TPers, greenies, brownies, and the NRA with equal disclosure.

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Larry Wirth

31 October 2014

Off to the side, I would like to also have played with a M-14 .303 on auto-fire, but that was strictly forbidden to the “Queen of the Battlefield” (Infantry) for two very good reasons. First, an M-14, with a cyclic rate of fire of 720 rounds per minute is spitting out at the rate of 12 rounds per second and that makes it very hard to hold on target, or at all (see recent news about a Kingman, AZ range honcho killed by a child by allowing said child to try it) and also that (ignoring time to exchange magazines) the 1965 standard of 5 magazines, one in rifle and four in ammo pouches, would be exhausted n less than 30 seconds, including reload time.

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Scott Obermuller

31 October 2014

Joe – A lot of people have to vote for the same politicians time after time.
Obama put Holder in charge of not investigating or charging anyone in the financial biz with any crimes. The public thought that was just wonderful and put Obama right back in office. The people have spoken. They like corruption and govt goodie handouts. As long as enough voting blocks get their govt candy, this will all continue. The greenies won’t stop it, but the Tea Party will. As soon as the fed govt returms to what the Constitution limits it to, the money spigot will shut off.
I love how the left loves to go and on about how the govt is controlled by monied interests, but all the left wing money never seems to be discussed.

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Larry Wirth

01 November 2014

Scott, as in how does a Nazi collaborator like George Soros have any credibility or respect from our left-wing fellow citizens? This a—— stayed alive in Budapest by fingering the properties of fellow Jews to the worst leftist political movement in human history. Yeah, JoKe, leftist. It would improve our political conversations immeasurably if our current crop of collectivists would finally (after seventy years, recognize that Nazis were a party of their own persuasion. L

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George Rebane

01 November 2014

LarryW 1054pm – Ah yes, down memory lane for the both of us. We did have somewhat different experiences with the M-14 (in my time they were chambered for the NATO round which was the Winchester 308, not the British Enfield caliber 303). But range commands I cited were always still traditional, but, alas, they may now be applied haphazardly. Just to note though, I have had a lot of Gulf War vets fire ‘under me’ as rangemaster, and they also report having heard that famous litany when they went through basic with their M-16s. And to this day, the NRA’s range safety rules call for the ‘lock and load’ sequence of safety on first, then chamber the round. With over 50 years on various ranges, I have some interesting stories of guns going off when the bolt goes forward with the safety off.
You’re right on the M-14’s firing rate; one could empty a 20-round mag licketty-split. But we were always taught that anyone could do that, it was firing a reliable 3-round burst which was and still is the Army solution. We all could get down to that level with both the -14 and the M-60 MG, but the real aficionados were the guys who fired the old 30-cal and the new -60 MGs a foot over our heads as we crawled under barbed wire that was staked a foot off the ground (not an easy task for a big fat ass like me). These guys would get so good that they would show off their ‘finger’ by having a line of them play ‘Shave and a haircut, two bits’ with their training area machine guns. And that required being able to pull off only one and two rounds at a time – talk about a light touch (I got down to two rounds, but never practiced enough to make it to a singleton).
You mentioned the beloved moniker for infantry. In artillery school (Ft Sill) we were drilled that ‘Infantry is the Queen of Battle’, and it’s tactic is summarized by ‘Hey Diddle-diddle, straight up the middle’. Armor’s tactic was ‘Haul ass, bypass, and call for the infantry’ (to mop up the bypassed hardpoints). Artillery was the ‘King of Battle’ (since it kills the most by bodycount), and most importantly, ‘It is the King’s job to put his balls where the Queen wants them when she wants them.’ This part was drilled into us so thoroughly that American artillery can go from full march order (towed artillery hooked up and moving on the road) to first round in the air in less than a minute. If there was no off-road firing point, we learned how to lay the guns and fire from the pavement while ‘riding the spades’ into the macadam with a couple of gun bunnies on each trail. At Sill they had special (beat up and repaired) roads on which we practiced that maneuver – it was a matter of pride while riding in the back of a 5-ton prime mover towing a 155mm and hear ‘Fire Mission!’ over the radio, and then spring to action. Those were the days; lots of fun.

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Scott Obermuller

01 November 2014

And what does the left propose to end all of this terrible influence that money has on politics? You guessed it! Have the govt finance elections. That is – you and I will be forced to hand over even more moolah to the same corrupt folks in power so they can hand it out to their friends and maybe even a few opposition pols on the ‘approved’ list. They call it ‘getting the money out of politics’, but in actuality it’s ‘getting the money out my pocket’. Apparently the left has run through all of their tax payer financed govt worker union money and need even more.

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Gregory

01 November 2014

George, you may not be aware that, among the active duty, most of the assault rifles (the real ones, not the cosmetically similar barely available to civilians in California called “assault weapons”) now issued are apparently only capable of 3 shot bursts… the most highly trained still have rifles that can empty a 30 round magazine with one trigger pull but it was found that most need the built in discipline of the burst in order to make the best use of the ammo on hand.

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George Rebane

01 November 2014

Gregory 952am – Was aware of that but forgot to mention it in my ‘memory lane’ comment. Apologies.

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Gregory

01 November 2014

I only learned recently when the subject came up… a pilot in a forum I frequent is an active duty army officer who can (and does) choose a selective fire version to carry.

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George Rebane

01 November 2014

Gregory 1120am – Indeed, my personal M-14 always sported the selector switch – RHIP and all that 😉

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Larry Wirth

02 November 2014

George, what has become of our beloved Alma Mater? Until a couple of years ago, the Bruins took the field with instantly recoognizable powder blue tunics and lt brown pants (gold).
Then they appeared wearing uniforms looking like Berkley lite. Why, I have no idea.
Last night, they showed up wearing uniforms akin to the orcs of Mordor. What is going on here?
My first reaction is to shift allegiance to the U of A, where red, white and blue are proudly worn. Your take?

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George Rebane

02 November 2014

LarryW 947am – Alas, I missed that one Bro. A link to a video or picture should be helpful. Sounds like I will need to have a firm hold on my bourbon when I bring up what you have described. Yes, the times they have changed.
(BTW, did you know that our alma mater’s history dept is the progenitor of the most revised and now politically correct history of these United States? Seats belts are advised before reading.)

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Bill Tozer

02 November 2014

Where is Gary Bebon when you need him.

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Larry Wirth

02 November 2014

Don’t know about links, George. Just go to UCLA sport site to get the full eyeful, guarantee you’ll be inclined to vomit. L

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Bill Tozer

02 November 2014

Perhaps our Mr. Pruett would enjoy this. I always root for the underdog.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/hidden-ball-trick-play-helps-indiana-state-beat-missouri-state–video-232822383.html;_ylt=A0SO8xmDoVZUipMAaJXBGOd_;_ylu=X3oDMTByc25qcnVyBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNARjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkAw–

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Larry Wirth

02 November 2014

Just a couple of days ago Barbie and I were discussing some vile football outfits, such as Colorado, Utah and Washington State wear and wondering if it was all about “taste.” Then the Bruins show up in Ninja outfits. Good grief!

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Larry Wirth

02 November 2014

Hey, Bill! Don’t need Gary Beban, Brett Hundley is more than up to the task, about to rewrite the record books. Just wondering why the Bruins want to look like the Gestapo. L

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George Rebane

02 November 2014

LarryW 136pm – Holy Kuhscheisse! Is this what you’re talking about?

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Larry Wirth

02 November 2014

Yep! nice, huh? L

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Larry Wirth

02 November 2014

Stands for a metaphor that the left can wreck everything it comes near to. I think you and I will have to go peacefully into our sleep//heaven and let the JoKe’s inherit the hell on earth they have willfully created. Damn them to everlasting Hell. L

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Larry Wirth

02 November 2014

They have fought for it; they deserve it. Let them partake of the crops they have sown. Too bad the rest of us have to swallow the poison they everyday sprinkle on our Wheaties.

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