Sandbox – 14oct14

October 2014
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Sandbox – 14oct14

14 October 2014

[Time for fresh sand and fresh thoughts. I was pondering the sad case of SecState Kerry. What has that poor nitwit done since being appointed by Obama to push the national peanut ahead? A quick perusal of the man's record reveals nothing that would even give him a tie breaker with his equally accomplished predecessor. There is a possibility that I may have missed an accomplishment that his dual duufuses (duufusi?) - Psaki and Harf- failed to inform us of, or even some remote announcement out of presidential puppet Josh Earnest to burnish the man's image. Readers will no doubt set us straight.]

Posted in Comment Sandbox

126 responses to “Sandbox – 14oct14”

fish

16 October 2014

If they do manage to gain the Senate majority I have no doubt they will make themselves so unpopular in two years they’ll be lucky to hold onto it any longer than that.
I’d be okay with that……I like churn!

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Barry Pruett

16 October 2014

Has anyone received a ballot yet? They were supposed to be mailed a week ago.

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George Rebane

16 October 2014

An important aspect of realpolitik is to help two or more of your enemies to beat the crap out of each other. It has been practiced successfully for millennia.

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Todd Juvinall

16 October 2014

I don’t think Ben Emery understands that George.

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fish

16 October 2014

An important aspect of realpolitik is to help two or more of your enemies to beat the crap out of each other. It has been practiced successfully for millennia.
Or in an environment where the tribal nature of the culture and religion demands a “strongman/despot”, leave him in place. This should have been done with Hussein (especially after he had been neutered following the first gulf war) and you would still have stability in the region.

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George Rebane

16 October 2014

fish 908am – I think that is what we initially attempted to do with Saddam after the Iraq-Iran war ended. Things started changing when Saddam then invaded Kuwait with eyes on further conquests southward. This upset the hoped for stability in the region.

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fish

16 October 2014

This upset the hoped for stability in the region.
(especially after he had been neutered following the first gulf war)
He was still in place and things were quiet……and he was behaving for the most part (some minor transgressions if I recall….but it’s the middle east…what did we expect)! A strategic blunder of epic proportions….Bush Primo had the sense at least to bust up the joint and leave…..Bush the Lesser didn’t.

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George Rebane

16 October 2014

fish 1045am – Agreed, the view through the rearview mirror is very clear. But it all hangs on the assumption that Saddam would have quietly behaved himself after getting whumped in Gulf1. There was no indication of that, and every indication that he had other plans that did not include ‘stability of the region’ – and then came 9/11.
But the stability paradigm which you raise and apparently promote is one which the US has successfully practiced for most of the 20th century. However, it has drawn the growing ire of the Left as it pointed out that such ‘soft imperialism’ serving the interests of America was illegal, immoral, and fattening. The subject is worth discussing as we attempt to reconfigure ourselves to deal with the next phase of Mideast wars, east Asian containment, and the rapidly legitimizing invasion of illegal aliens.

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fish

16 October 2014

There was no indication of that, and every indication that he had other plans that did not include ‘stability of the region’ – and then came 9/11.
Examples?

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George Rebane

16 October 2014

fish 1123am – rapid rebuilding of his military, including stockpiling chemical WMDs(as indicated above), rejecting conformance to UN resolutions demanding inspections (which when finally allowed were obviously limited to sanitized sites), internal ‘rearrangements’ strengthening the dominance of the Sunni Baathists (at the cost to Iran supported Shias and the Kurds), … Even though tyranny is a stable form of governance, individual tyrants aren’t. We can argue though about how long it would have taken for Saddam to launch his next destabilizing atrocity, and what the interim cost of keeping him contained would have been.
(Did you not want to talk about the ‘stability paradigm’ invited in my 1120am?)

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RL Crabb

16 October 2014

Joe Biden had it right when he said that Iraq should have been three countries after Gulf I, but chances are the Sunnis would have been cut off from the oil and started a war anyway.

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George Rebane

16 October 2014

RLCrabb 1211pm – People knew that almost immediately in 1921 after Churchill presented the new post-war configuration of the Mideast (that even included the notorious ‘Churchill’s Sneeze’ that mangled Jordan’s eastern boundary). We have suffered from such arbitrary boundaries not only in the Mideast but also in south Asia and Africa. Somebody must have told Biden about all this.

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Paul Emery

16 October 2014

Barry
Yubanet has the story on ballot mailing. Hmmm
http://yubanet.com/regional/NCElectionOffice-delayed–mailing-of-ballots.php#.VEArtK4xEaE

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Todd Juvinall

16 October 2014

Paul Emery, your pathetic attempts at culture just don’t work. I actually call it as I see it and I would say thank goodness I am a tall guy since short men are so insecure. Too funny.
I have called Christie a chub just like fat ass Pelline and Frisch. I have refrained from calling you what you are though, I respect your service.

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Todd Juvinall

16 October 2014

The above post was a mistake in this thread. Sorry.
Looks like the ballot is messed up eh Paul? Or should I say Cyrano? Too funny!

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Walt

16 October 2014

Another example of how when a Progressive is about to lose at their own game,,, just change the rules.
http://dailycaller.com/2014/10/16/moveon-org-changes-its-contest-rules-after-conservative-groups-video-takes-commanding-lead/
It sucks even worse when it gets plastered all over the web. Moveon sure must be buttsore about this getting out.

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George Rebane

16 October 2014

Walt 321pm – Great pick-up Walt. The huge amounts of political spending by the Left is a totally uncovered story in the lamestream – actually we may call it a journalistic cover-up by the same media people that the Left swears up and down is not overwhelmingly biased. Outfits like MoveOn.org must be blushing on all four cheeks when their own contest outs Steyer spending in one year more than the top 31 Republicans. Now we get to enjoy their cricket chorus response.

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Barry Pruett

16 October 2014

Thanks Paul!

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George Boardman

16 October 2014

There’s nothing new in the YubaNet story. The Union reported more than a week ago that this was going to happen.

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George Rebane

16 October 2014

Our absentee ballots arrived in the mail today, but no voter info packet.

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Walt

16 October 2014

Seems Nevada Co. isn’t the only one to screw up voter guides. Maybe someone should sue.
Ya’ know what they say, an upside down flag is a message of distress.
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/10/16/upside-down-flag-printed-on-thousands-of-d-c-voter-guides/
So much for “neutrality”. A blatant attempt to sway voters. Someone cry to the judge!

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Walt

16 October 2014

OH CRAP!!! Another blow to global warming. As if record sea ice, and record early snow in Colorado. Now HERE???
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/10/16/early-snowfall-on-the-big-island-of-hawaii-seen-on-satellite/
OK resident AGW gang,, you got splanin’n ya’ do. Forget we should be crispy critters by now according to those billion dollar computer models? The same damned info the stupid state of CA. CARB used (and still uses) to ram rules and regs down our throats in the name of AGW?
Yet you will still vote for the bastards to keep them in state office.
Now have another bong hit or hit of LSD true believers. And don’t forget to send your donations to REV. Gore. He needs the gas money for his Gulf stream 5 to spread his carbon footprint.

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Walt

16 October 2014

One more point to make about the LIBS BS claims. They LOVE to spew that the Repubs are “the party of the rich”. Well that claim just doesn’t hold water. Read it and weep.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_GOP_ADVANTAGE_WEALTHIEST_DISTRICTS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-10-16-16-56-29
Seems even the LIB press is turning on their own. ( looking to stay relevant?)

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Don Bessee

16 October 2014

Dr. R, 1120. I want to remind everyone that for years before 9/11 the scum bag saddam had his people shoot at our Air Force Hero’s who were enforcing the no fly zone. Remember how often we had to kill an anti-air site that took a shot at us? Would we have allowed the Nazis or Tojo to shoot at us after their surrender?

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fish

17 October 2014

(Did you not want to talk about the ‘stability paradigm’ invited in my 1120am?)
Posted by: George Rebane | 16 October 2014 at 11:57 AM
Ya know I’ve thought about it but at the moment I can’t summon the effort to do the research to rebut your arguments. It hardly matters as we are in the region and are likely to be there for the foreseeable future dealing with this “Tar Baby”.
Imperial overstretch…it’s what got the Romans and the Brits. I can think of no compelling reason that it won’t get us too!

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George Rebane

17 October 2014

fish 954am – You’re probably right. We can pick this up again at time if/when there is interest.

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fish

17 October 2014

Local man plans his movie comeback…..
Mark (Lead): Male, 30-40, Caucasian
Jewish, skaterboy hooligan from SoCal who still looks like both of those things, even as he approaches middle age. Has a daughter age 8 and … more
It’s the role you were born to play jeffy!

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fish

17 October 2014

From the “Fun with Socialist Economics” section…..
http://reason.com/blog/2014/10/16/socialists-push-for-20-minimum-wage-but

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Walt

17 October 2014

I heard about that on the radio today Fish, I love the part whee they want to hire a web designer, and the pay is about 15 bucks an hour. yet they demand a minimum wadge of 20!

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Bill Tozer

18 October 2014

Too funny Walt. Just like those non profits lobbying Congress or a State legislature for a higher minimum wage, then when passed, are back there lobbying for an exemption cause it would cause them to laid off workers or break the bank of the non profit.
In other news we can’t use, I admire Obama’s style. Takes the little woman out for dinner and she ends up paying for it. Other people’s money. To be fair, I do like it when people underuse their credit cards. Shows responsibility. Why use mine when I can use yours.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/10/17/obama-under-used-credit-card-declined-in-ny-cafe/?intcmp=latestnews

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Ben Emery

18 October 2014

If true very good point Walt. The higher minimum wage will hit non profits big time for the few paid positions they have within their organizations. My brothers NGO pays their workers all living wage/ middle class wages. They have 25 paid employees. If you set your organization up to work within that formula then it is no problem. Where their organization might make you guys choke is the founders/ co executive directors only make about twice as much as their employees who work about 20 less hours a week. Where as the average US corporation (all sizes factored in) executives make 300:1 to their employees and in some industries it is up to 1500:1 over their employees. Big gap in philosophy isn’t it?

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Barry Pruett

18 October 2014

Ben brings up as always an interesting topic. I have been wanting to have a conversation about corporations with him for sometime, so the rest of you yahoos need to participate without the regular nonesense.
Question for Ben: If executive compensation is over 300:1 that of employees, why doesn’t the market correct for the “over compensation?” I mean if corporations must lower the cost of production by lowering salaries in order to compete with other corporations, why do the corporations overpay executives? It appears at first glance that the executives bargain at arms length for salaries that a commensurate with ability…much like an NFL quarterback.

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Walt

18 October 2014

In other news, CNN is laying off people by the droves. And because a lot just happen to be Black,,,, well you can guess what the charge is…. ( then they go and hire a White guy named Mike Rowe.)

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Ben Emery

18 October 2014

Barry,
To answer your question without going off on other connecting issues such as free trade agreements, tax policy, political corruption i.e. incentives for such policy shifts;
” It appears at first glance that the executives bargain at arms length for salaries that a commensurate with ability…much like an NFL quarterback.”
Yes, this is comparable but for different reasons.
We have shifted to a new kind of business model in our predatory capitalism. This shift has made share holders more important than the stake holders.
Mitt Romney/ Bain business model is the epitome of this phenomena. Executives that are willing to literally ruin other peoples lives for the bottom line of the company are compensated at much higher rates. Productivity has skyrocketed in the US some due to technology but mainly due to the increase duties/ responsibilities forced onto the employees after staff cuts are made. These downsizing, forced retirements, or just making conditions so unbearable that people leave are usually with employees with seniority/ benefits cutting costs for the company while dumping all those responsibilities to less qualified and now underpaid staff.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-private-equity-firms-like-bain-really-are-the-worst-of-capitalism-20120523
Another example of this shift is the health insurance industry. Health insurance CEO’s compensation is insane, they are killing people and causing much suffering with their policies/ protocol of denying premium paying customers valid claims. This is where some of the much needed regulations of ACA are so important. Claims, pre existing conditions, caps on payments, ect… are no longer legal on the health care industry side of the equation. This is why Obama and Democratic Party pundits try to justify why he had to make back room deals and circumvent the American people and congress. This is why the public option could not be part of the end product. With these regulation or laws in place profits will decrease so getting 30 million new customers would make up for that new rules.
William McGuire in a 10 year stint for United Health Group took home over a billion and a half dollars for being that person who is willing to kill people and cause mass suffering for the bottom line, not many people have that level of lack of conscience to perform that job in that fashion.

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Ben Emery

18 October 2014

Barry,
To finish my 11:50am comment
In essence it is a very immoral and perverted skill set that makes a small few people lots of money, in my opinion of course. Unfortunately the sin of “Love” of money has elevated this type of business model as successful throughout the nation and internationally. It also has been conflated into political ideology so we hear working class people using these same talking points.

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Walt

18 October 2014

Ben. Overbearing government regulations never has anything to do with it from the Socialist point of view. It ” more the better”. Never mind we have the highest corp. tax in the world. Seems the only “budding” untaxed “small” business now is dope.
LIBS got their Obummercare, now the little guy is going under because of it.
LIBS love to say Repubs are for “big business” , yet the richest back the LIBS.
They pay off the politicians to write rules and regs. to stifle the competition.
LIBS have bought Wall st. and has left Main st. high and dry.

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George Rebane

18 October 2014

BenE 1150am – I think we’ve done this Romney/Bain dance before. The companies that Bain bought and restructured were not healthy; most were either on the edge of ruin or firmly headed in that direction. They were not being run as sustainable businesses for their owners. Bain did not create the economy or market conditions that put these companies in that state. But Bain did have the expertise to rescue the remaining value from such companies (at least most of them; some went bust in spite of Bain’s ministrations and Bain lost their investment). This provided some return to the shareholders, saved jobs (all of which would have been lost), and very frequently put the company on a new growth path that created even more jobs than the company provided before. This performance is a matter of record – Romney/Bain created/saved more jobs than they cut.
Now as a socialist you march to different economic principles which teach that businesses are started and run for the benefit of the employees (stakeholders?), and not for the benefit of the owners whose risk taking investment started and maintains the business. Your way has never worked (save for some very inefficiently state run extractive industries which ultimately fail after their produced wealth is skimmed off by the country’s ruling elite).

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fish

18 October 2014

This shift has made share holders more important than the stake holders.
Perhaps these “stakeholders” (mostly not owners) should purchase the company from the shareholders (the owners)…a novel concept I realize…. if they feel they can operate these companies in a more beneficial and profitable manner.
Wait….wait…let me guess….I’m not seeing the “Big Picture”.

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fish

18 October 2014

…and in other news…..local man living on inherited money (sources tell us) complains about another mans pension!
Careful jeffy…..this kind of talk could very well alienate the local proletarians who you like to slum with…..then other than the sock puppets….no friends at all!
Is this the same Keith M. Grueneberg who is a board member of Nevada County Consolidated Fire and was in the news this week for defending a proposal to pull firefighters from the Nevada City fire station to save money? Do tell Keith. According to Transparent California, a Keith M. Grueneberg is drawing an annual pension of $194K.
So are you saying that Mr. Grueneberg did anything wrong by working in the various positions he’s held? If so what? Is his pension excessive? What are you prepared to do politically to rein in excessive pensions for public safety personnel. If you’re successful do you think Sheriff Royal will make you delete his number from your cell phone!
Inquiring minds want to know?

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George Rebane

18 October 2014

fish 107pm – This obvious solution has been suggested many times to BenE and company. You’re right in that somehow that hasn’t fit into their big picture – altruism über alles!

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fish

18 October 2014

Posted by: George Rebane | 18 October 2014 at 02:02 PM
This should be real easy? I’ve seen Ben claim that he and his side is; “On almost every major issue my opinion falls into the majority of Americans, anywhere from 51% to 90%.”…given this one would think that he’s ready to take the leap from the “theoretical phase” into a more active role as one of the “vanguard”. I understand that due to some health issues he’s not ready to actually seize the means of production….but if he and his 51% to 90% of the populace wanted to….buy…. these businesses he should have little trouble acquiring the capital to convert them to thriving “employee owned collectives”.
How bout it Ben…are you ready to serve as an example to the rest of us?

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George Rebane

18 October 2014

fish 217pm – to this thread I’d add the “caring economics” approach that PaulE introduced us to several years ago.
http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2011/05/true-value-of-work-and-caring-economics.html#more
and more here –
http://www.caring-economics.org/
The guru of caring economics has been Riane Eisler now of the Global Oneness Project (hardcore Agenda21). There was also a British company that tried to pioneer an implementation of this with heavy levels of worker ownership and participation in management. I can’t find it and think it went belly up.
http://www.globalonenessproject.org/library/interviews/caring-economics
It still comes down to the same thing – all socialists want to play with your money, and they will not hesitate to sacrifice you to get it.

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Gregory

18 October 2014

I’ll come right out and say that any pension above $100k is outrageous for any retired state or local public employee. They have jobs that have far more security than anyone in the public sector who pay tbe bills, and historically that’s why they had less pay and benefits than the rest of us. Now they have all the security, and higher pay and benefits.
Just another brick in the insolvency wall.
BTW another howler by the Lickspittles over at Pelline’s… that McClintock is too old and gray to be reelected to Congress. Needs to be put to pasture. Get new blood in there.
While that might be true for Harry Reid (age 74), Pelosi (age 74) or Boxer (age 73), but McClintock is 58.

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Gregory

18 October 2014

Of course, that should read “They have jobs that have far more security than anyone in the PRIVATE sector who pay tbe bills”

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fish

18 October 2014

I’ll come right out and say that any pension above $100k is outrageous for any retired state or local public employee.
Indeed….but that’s what he has qualified for under the California Civil Service rules established by a legislature that has spent far more time with Democrats at the helm than Republicans (less), Independents (less still), Libertarians (never), etc. ….!
Now that money woes impact “lil jeffy” in a more tangible way he wants stern measures taken to deal with this intolerable state of affairs!
The guru of caring economics has been Riane Eisler now of the Global Oneness Project (hardcore Agenda21).
Who the F comes up with these utterly ridiculous names….Global Oneness Project…..? Thats as stupid as young Ben employing the phrase “the masses” un-ironically!
“Marketing” people…learn it, know it, live it!

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fish

18 October 2014

Sorry George I glossed right over this one.
fish 107pm – This obvious solution has been suggested many times to BenE and company. You’re right in that somehow that hasn’t fit into their big picture – altruism über alles!
Moral preening and RightThinkfulness on display like so much Peacock plumage! Altruism involves sacrifice….(and I’m not saying Ben wouldn’t)…the ringleaders are, as you stated, all for your sacrifice and mine…theirs not so much!

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Walt

18 October 2014

Well the ABC undercover cops are working today, One of their under age “bait boys”
bagged the poor minimum wadge schlep at the local store. He forgot to ask for ID.
I bet they don’t hit the pot shops and see if they ask for their rec. card.

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Ben Emery

18 October 2014

Well guys I am out on corresponding with others except Barry not because I cannot but I really don’t have the time or energy these days to do so. Barry asked a question and I answered it the most direct way I could without getting into the incentives and connecting policies that contribute to such unbalanced compensation. It really is business shooting themselves in the foot over the long run due to workers not earning enough money to sustain our economy and the ability to borrow against future wages this economy will sputter and fizzle out. We are in the sputtering stages at the moment and the next crash with be the fizzle out stage since we as a country no longer have the ability to bail ourselves out with more debt. We had the perfect scenario to do so in 2008 but we decided to bail out irresponsible banking/ financial industry and then gave out huge tax breaks with the stimulus package that was about 1/3 of the size needed to get our outdated and failing infrastructure up to 21st century standards.
Have a good night

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fish

19 October 2014

It really is business shooting themselves in the foot over the long run due to workers not earning enough money to sustain our economy and the ability to borrow against future wages this economy will sputter and fizzle out.
Agree with the first part of your statement….disagree with the second part (partially). This will be a bigger factor going forward especially with the trend towards automation.
We are in the sputtering stages at the moment and the next crash with be the fizzle out stage since we as a country no longer have the ability to bail ourselves out with more debt. We had the perfect scenario to do so in 2008 but we decided to bail out irresponsible banking/ financial industry and then gave out huge tax breaks with the stimulus package that was about 1/3 of the size needed to get our outdated and failing infrastructure up to 21st century standards.
Again…agree with the first part of your statement….disagree with the second part. The next time will be worse….I suspect much worse. But let’s be honest Ben, you yourself argued for this bailout!
From RL’s Blog
fish says:
September 28, 2014 at 9:19 am
But Ben it’s the disagreements that are so much more interesting. If I wanted that I could have joined “jeffys furious affirmation society”….no thanks!
You posted something once at Rebanes that always puzzled me….a Nader quote that said, in essence.
“Capitalism will never fail because Socialism will always rescue it”
Why would socialism bail out a system that it considers so egregiously flawed?
Reply
Ben Emery says:
September 28, 2014 at 10:02 am
Fish,
Because everyday people will suffer if it does not act.
Ben Emery says:
September 28, 2014 at 10:08 am
oops it should have read
Fish,
“Why would socialism bail out a system that it considers so egregiously flawed?”
-Because everyday people will unduly suffer if it does not act.-
I will add, the predatory form of capitalism we find ourselves in today understands this fully. This is why big industry will take such huge risks. I believe we need to remove the security of limited liability from those who sit atop large institutions/ industry. In a 24 month period BP killed over two dozen people with their negligence and nobody went to jail, this is not justice in any way shape of form.
fish says:
September 28, 2014 at 10:20 am
So your argument is that we must sustain a flawed system that leftist social theorists say must fail eventually because “people will unduly suffer if it doesn’t act”.
I find your argument circular….if this is how it must be so people don’t suffer unduly then how can you criticize it? The predatory capitalist system is in ascendence. Enabled and maintained by progressive politicians and social policies. I don’t recall any of this coming to pass in what little leftist political literature I’ve read?
So you say that these bailouts needed to happen to mitigate “suffering”
Now I won’t lump you in with those who identify as “progressive” who support the democrats since you self identify as a Green/Socialist. But socialist theory requires that a critical phase like the one presented to the democrats in 2007-2008 is necessary to usher in change and yet with a fully democratic legislature and with control of the executive branch and with the whip hand (the ability to bail out these financial institutions…or not) we didn’t do so and find ourselves back in a similar set of conditions as those in place nearly eight years ago.
How exactly do you plan on getting to socialism if you won’t accept a little suffering? I was all for letting the banks fail, liquidating their assets and arresting and prosecuting the bankers for their criminal activity. Letting the “chips fall where they may” as it were.
Remind me again why you consider me a fascist.

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Bill Tozer

19 October 2014

Well, Ben, the bottom line for all private sector corporations is the shareholder’s bottom line. They are the owners, not some CEO. The bottom line for small businesses all the way down to a sole proprietor is their bottom line. They go under and employees’ wages become a mute point. No workie, no pay, unless you work for the gobberment.
Yep, I agree with Mr. Fish and say shake the tree and let the rotten fruit fall where it may. Take it one step further and I say prune off the non producing branches and toss them on the burn pile. The Teachers Unions may tolerate and protect the rotten fruit, but not the military nor where I draw my merger wage. One mess up erases 10 attaboys and don’t let the door hit ya where The Good Lord split ya. Results matter and that is so contraire to Bro Ben’s world view. As long as gobberment has it’s hand on the throttle of the printing presses, we can keep kicking the can down the Yellow Brick Road.
Oh, our rewards in today’s society is what is known as the fruit of the poison tree.

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