Rebane's Ruminations
September 2014
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George Rebane

Measure S to replace Nevada County’s current Ordinance 2349 specifying how medicinal marijuana (MMJ) has become our community’s latest cause celebre and also the casus belli between the pro and anti Measure S factions.  Measure S is a public initiative on the November ballot to replace the current 2349.  Both S and 2349 deal only with growing MMJ in the county.  Growing recreational marijuana (RMJ) for fun and profit is illegal everywhere in California.  Access to 2349, Measure S, and a side-by-side comparison of the S and 2349 provisions is available here.

Before S arrived on the scene, I never thought I would become so interested in the MMJ issue.  My thoughts on MJ and the legalization of drugs in general was declared some time ago (here) and should be no mystery to RR readers.  (Full disclosure: neither Jo Ann nor I have been or are marijuana users.)  My interest has grown in MJ use since moving to one of the world’s prime MJ growing areas, and becoming involved in the county’s politics primarily as a conservetarian blogger, commentator, and speaker.  So let me meander a bit on this latest dust devil on our main street that is trying to grow up into a cyclone.  I’ll try to be structured so readers can easily reference their comments to the various parts of this piece.

1. Last Tuesday (23sep14) there were two ‘information sessions’ on S and 2349 – one sponsored by the pro-S (at Nevada Theater) and the other by anti-S (at Rood Center).  I attended and reported on the anti-S affair.  Now the League of Women Voters will sponsor a debate on the matter on the eve of 16 October at the Rood Center.  (Apparently the same kind of debate as recently proposed by The Union and KVMR for the Rood Center was not as acceptable as the upcoming one by the LWV.  Oh well.)


2. The efficacy of MMJ for medical purposes, and the legality of prescribed use of MMJ are not an issue.  Only at issue are the factors surrounding the growing of MMJ.  The county’s position on growing MMJ revolves around neighborhood nuisance and enforceability factors.  The county maintains that the current 2349 strikes the proper balance between the interests of MMJ users, growers, and the growers’ neighbors.  The pro-S people maintain that 2349 is too restrictive, ambiguous, and does not provide sufficient supply for the county’s MMJ users.  (The insufficient supply aspect was raised in the 26sep14 Union by Ms Patricia Smith, president of the local Americans for Safe Access pro-MMJ group.)

3. To my knowledge no one knows the number of prescribed MMJ users in the county – is it in the hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands?  (Why don't we know it?)  Given the number of illegal RMJ grows in the county, and the frequent tell-tale smell of RMJ and RMJ users in the community, I assume that our recreational users number in the thousands and greatly outnumber the MMJ users.

4. Growing RMJ is arguably the largest and most profitable ‘agricultural’ business in the county, and most certainly the largest illegal revenue producing private enterprise.  Neither side disputes that RMJ money contributes significantly to the county’s retail economy, especially in its hospitality and ag supply sectors.  I want to insert here that both law enforcement (LE) and the drug cartels strongly agree in opposing the legalization of RMJ production and consumption for the same reason – it’s the money.  Both sides know how to manage their respective risks and play the cat & mouse game at the proper level of intensity to satisfy their constituencies.  Although the LE side must maintain the respectable visage and argue that drug enforcement, incarceration, and remediation bureaucracies are unique in that, unlike other government bureaucracies, they have no motivation to grow in size, scope, and power.  The cartels are not so burdened with respect to their profit motive.

5. Given the variety of MJ plants possessing different amounts/ratios of organic chemicals that are alternately beneficial for medicinal purposes as opposed to providing the desirable high for recreational use, our RMJ growers, with unknown frequency, pose as MMJ growers displaying posted prescriptions and certificates at their grows as called for by 2349.  The anti-S people summarize this in their slogan ‘It’s not about medicine.’  Remember, growing RMJ in California is illegal according to both state and federal law.

6. Sheriff Keith Royal readily admits that LE’s biggest problem is finding the right “balance” for MMJ grows that 1) satisfies the legitimate needs of MMJ users, and 2) the legitimate nuisance and safety concerns of the public.  To find this balance has been a ‘cut and try’ process since legal MMJ growing in various jurisdictions nationwide is a relatively new area of code enforcement.  The benefits of regulating MMJ grows under 2349 is that it is relatively easy to amend as the county gains experience and new considerations arise.  This is evident through the ordinance’s existing history of amendments.  The Board of Supervisors passed 2349, and as such they can amend it at their pleasure.  This is not the case for S.

7. A comparison of S and 2349 (see above) readily reveals that S greatly loosens the requirements on MMJ growers imposed by 2349, either through specific numerical pro-grower callouts or simply being silent on many factors affecting the grows and their neighbors.  Since Measure S will be a regulation by voter initiative, it can only be changed through another voter initiative in a future election.  Pro-S supporters answer that there is nothing to prevent the BoS to pass a new ordinance that dovetails with S (call it S+) and goes into more details on regulatory concerns that S left out or on which it is moot.  Besides the added confusion of enforcing the details of the then three sources of regulations (state, S, S+), this approach promises to be another full employment act for lawyers.  Disgruntled and/or cited growers can now sue the county for drafting the S+ ordinance in violation and contradiction of the people’s intent expressed in the more ambiguous or moot Measure S.  You no doubt see where all this will lead.

8. If there is any real evidence of problems with MMJ availability for prescribed patients, I had neither seen it nor heard about it.  There was no mention of such a shortage last Tuesday at the Rood Center, and I specifically brought it up to the pro-S contingent present.  Be that as it may, there certainly is enough of the stuff grown locally to keep at least all of our MMJ users going 24/7.  So if access is the problem, ASA (it’s in their name) could eliminate that concern by starting a MMJ hotline that ‘patients’ can call and get the information where locally grown MMJ is most readily and affordably available.  Or maybe churches could band together – after all it’s to alleviate human suffering – and man a MMJ distribution center wherein users are properly vetted and registered so that things can go very smoothly when they come again to pick up their, say, monthly stash.

Having said all that, I want to remind readers that I do support legalizing the growing and use of RMJ as a regulated (and taxed) adult consumable similar to how we have established the means to produce, distribute, and consume other recreational drugs such as the various tobacco and ethanol (booze) products.  This is not the place to present all the studies done on MJ, especially the effects of regular and/or early use of RMJ.  Like ethanol, RMJ does make you dopey; you don’t have to be a consumer to verify that.  And like smoking tobacco, smoking RMJ is noxious to many bystanders.  But again, we have laws and ordinances that can deal as effectively with RMJ as they deal with society’s other legal recreational drugs.

Before California makes RMJ consumption legal, we should continue to learn from the Colorado and Washington RMJ experiences.  I believe it is just a matter of time until RMJ becomes legal, no matter the opposition from the LE and criminal cartel industries, because we will literally run out of money if we continue playing cops and riefers.

So there you have it.  I oppose Measure S because it looks, feels, and smells like a cumbersome legal bamboozle to promote an increased local supply of marijuana that can be grown with minimum impediments under the auspices of MMJ, while in reality expanding the sources (and illegal distribution) of RMJ.  After all, we are told that Nevada County is a renowned national supplier of the best marijuana on the market, a market which appears to be insatiable as long as RMJ is illegal.  We should try something else to control and regulate RMJ.  Right now 2349 works for MMJ, and it can be further and readily amended to find the ‘goldilocks boundary’ that balances the county’s legitimate MMJ, neighborhood nuisance, and community health/safety needs.

Posted in , ,

175 responses to “Thoughts on Marijuana and Measure S”

  1. A. Patriot Avatar
    A. Patriot

    Don, I’ve read Mrs Rebane’s flawed, if not biased, analysis in depth. Specific flaws can be found in 1. Who crafted the ordinance – I know the facts is that most patient and caregiver input was ignored. I attended or read reports and minutes of many of the meetings and forums held at that time. We all know Sheriff Royal was the true “editor / crafter” of the current ordinance, and he “adapted” it from another County, and you helped! Trouble is you’re both consistently misinformed or uninformed especially on the issues that face patients and caregivers. A form of our unworkable ordinance was making the rounds across California and it is/was straight out of the Sheriff’s Association’s anti-pot toolbox. Mr. Royal and friends simply added their inimitable touch. 2. Any statement that cultivation is allowed in ANY area without limitation in Measure S is patently false (in fact areas such as Airports business parks etc. are limited by both State law and local commerce codes and other business law and probably plenty of other rules and regs.). 3. Other / Implied Purposes are, at best, Mrs. Rebane’s conjecture and opinion and have no basis in fact. At least some her hard numerical comparisons are valid.
    I’m also fully aware that dispensaries are banned throughout the County. I firmly believe that is another mistake by our Board of Supervisors based on prejudiced and unsubstantiated information rather than valid data. The black / gray market continues to thrive in part as a result of that error in judgement. Measure S allows the County to address and correct this issue in the future, leaving the people with the option of perhaps allowing this type of safe access in appropriate, non-residential areas.
    The County had everything to do with Measure S being crafted. The County has had almost 2 years to address and adjust the shortcomings and ambiguities of 2349. They have not. Measure S is simply a result of their failure to act and their failure to consider the expert input of patients, caregivers and legal medicinal cultivators. Those same experts crafted the modifications and adjustments to create the reasonable compromise that the Supes could have and should have implemented from the start.

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  2. Walt Avatar

    Seems the “S” gang is pissed that the meat and potatoes of “S” is spelled out in black and white.
    “The current ballot title, which the petition calls “false and misleading,” reads as follows:
    “Shall medical marijuana cultivation in Nevada County be allowed to expand by amending the county’s general code to (a) increase the allowed sizes of cultivation areas; (b) reduce or eliminate setback requirements between cultivation areas and adjacent residences and sensitive uses; and (c) eliminate various marijuana cultivation regulations and restrictions related to nuisance control? YES___NO____”
    They want it dumbed down to
    “Shall the ordinance repealing county ordinance 2349 and enacting medical marijuana cultivation standards be adopted? YES_____NO______”
    So those that don’t read it in it’s entirety will fall for it.
    So DO tell.. Just what is false and misleading?

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  3. A. Patriot Avatar
    A. Patriot

    The ballot title is currently written in Black, there is no white. It is not supposed to be written in Black or White. It is REQUIRED to be neutral. One provides a biased opinion, so those who don’t read it will fall or it. The other makes no misleading statements, it simply encourages the voter to read it and educate themselves on what the Measure actually says and asks if it should be adopted. So, please, do tell.

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  4. Walt Avatar

    So the TRUTH isn’t good enough? That’s why LIBS are regarded as slimy.
    You pray on the stupid vote.

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  5. Walt Avatar

    Maybe plenty will read the real facts as printed in the Union, since that’s where My above post came from. If a common ditch digger could find this blatant attempt to gain the idiot vote, others will too. Basically the Stoners outsmarted themselves, and showed their cards.
    The word is out and so is the real story.
    The Union actually helped this time.
    Face it. Your greed and arrogance got the better of you. Kiss “S” goodbye.
    As stated before “S” stands for sucker. This time the “pro” side is the “lolly”.

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  6. A. Patriot Avatar
    A. Patriot

    Sorry to inform you, The “S Gang” is more than just LIBS, its your neighbors and friends, employers and employees, Libs, Cons, Dems, Repubs, TP, GP IP, LE, pastors, preachers, rabbis, gay, straight, tree-huggers, loggers, miners, organic farmers, young adults with seizures and grandparents with aches and pains, butchers, bakers, even candlestick makers. People that know the importance of the Constitution, Property Rights and Honesty, Truth and Justice as well as those that do not. Some may not have an interest, some may be dumber than others, but they are all Americans. They all deserve an impartial stance from those we entrust with public office. This is America.

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  7. Don Bessee Avatar
    Don Bessee

    NID is trying to lay low on this issue for some reason but the fact is they are mitigating issues like pumps drawing from flumes and other documented diversions. Must be the directors laying low. I think a formal document request is in order to show how bad it is here based on what NID already knows. There are water districts in CA that are already doing evaluations based on 50 gal. / person for indoor use and preparing letters based on census data. Even if we are able to keep meters off land owners here do we think that the $500 fine will stop the pot profiteers? The Feds report that the national average is 70-100 gals per person exclusive of outside uses. Now its really about our way of life. I would remind folks that the feds substance abuse and mental health folks show that $1 dollar of prevention saves apx. $3 of society costs of addiction. The pot part is growing and growing. That does not even evaluate the community costs like here where we have families who think free school lunch and health care, Obama phones and all other low income services are cool to suck off when they have massive off the book money. Your tax dollars, County, State and Federal. At the first County workshop on 2349 we had a proposal to really save Deputy man hours, register. Register your recommendation and grow location, send a cell pic or email. Neighbor calls the Sheriff and they can say its ok. Oh no! we are too afraid of disclosure. When was the last time the Feds raided a 20 plant grow if you were not part of a home grown pot gang rolling too much money that could not be accounted for?

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  8. Walt Avatar

    Nice rant. It sure isn’t employers. Ever hear of drug testing? “S” does “jack” to change that. There are laws like ” safe work place”. Smoke dope, NO job. Even in states like Colorado and Oregon, those laws are still in force.
    “S” is for medical use ONLY, and is a ruse. Nice try. Rec. use is still illegal, and “S” is pushed by the profiteers. There are NO “patients” going without in this county.
    I can see your pissed. The truth is all over the front page of the local paper. Gotta love free access of public records.
    Gotta hate it when that happens.
    I’m a firm believer in full disclosure of any ballot measure. Well, it’s “fully disclosed” NOW!!

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  9. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    “about as close as I can get to it”
    Really George, you know very sell what I’m talking about and you are avoiding the question by saying the problem is so dire that extraordinary measures need to be taken.
    If the grows are illegal under State law they should be dealt with by the criminal division of the Sheriffs department. Using the “ordinance” to randomly search properties under the veil of code enforcement is not consistent with integrity or honesty and is an abuse or property rights and police power . I’m very disappointed in your position on this. Makes me suspect of other “principals” you claim. Are “principals” really that contextual?

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  10. A. Patriot Avatar
    A. Patriot

    Sorry Walt, no time for the spin you’re trying to sell. Take a look at the sales of Pharmaceuticals and the stats on their use in the workplace. There are plenty of employers that have no problem with legit medical patient’s choices. There are plenty that don’t. Those practices need careful examination and adaptation as well in light of new research and information. I’m not pissed, I’m amused and incredulous at some of the statements and tirades here. I’m thoroughly disappointed with our BOS, Sheriff and those that would ignore the taxpaying citizens that pay their salaries. That is pretty obvious.

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  11. Walt Avatar

    And just what your point? “S” dose nothing to change that. Your trying to pull the same crap as Paul. Divert the subject.
    With initiatives, there is nothing wrong with FULL disclosure. ” This is what this ballot measure will do, or not do.”. Not the usual bait and switch, which is the norm these days.
    If employers choose not to drug test, that’s up to them and their insurance companies.
    There are plenty of employers that would love to hire me because of my abilities and experience, but because I do take prescribed meds they don’t like, they can’t.
    And not because I can’t do the job.

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  12. Walt Avatar

    BTW,, there are a few right here I have done work for, and have been repeat customers.

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  13. A. Patriot Avatar
    A. Patriot

    Don, why in God’s name would/should anyone, legit patient or not, self-incriminate themselves of a Felony in the eyes of the Federal Government? No sane person would take that risk. Did you come up with this and the part of 2349 that requires self-incrimination by landlords that want to rent their property to MMJ patients, as is their right? Also, if we figure 6 gallons per day, per 6 plants, that’s 36 gallons a day per patient. How much water does it take for the 18th fairway at the Club? How much for tomatoes? We don’t need NID figures for the six plants per patient allowed under Measure S, we already have them. The NID figures might give us some intel on illegal diversions, but wouldn’t really help in determining if MMJ or RMJ cultivators or the guy I saw in Alta Sierra pumping water from Rattlesnake Creek onto his lawn were responsible.

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  14. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 819pm – Remember we have only one of two choices – keep the amendable 2349 or toss it and substitute the unamendable S. Until you finally tell us all how S would solve your property rights assertions, this thread is over.

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  15. Walt Avatar

    George.. We have been trying to pry that answer out since the beginning to no eval.
    He has no answer. And the others don’t give a crap about property rights. If they want to rent to MMJ people there is nothing stopping them today. My guess is that THEY want to be able to rent without disclosing to the landlord, and “S” gives them that out.
    “S” will not get anyone around the CC&R’s of the likes of LWW or LOP.
    The case has been made that the sheriff can make contact with anyone growing weed. It’s up to that person to show he/she is within the county ordnance. Pure and simple.
    Just like if someone makes a call about someone shooting in their own back yard.

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  16. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    S would leave the options for enforcement on the table as it is undefined. Pretty simple answer to your question.
    Would you and other property rights advocates be willing to lead the charge for a different enforcement system to the current ordinance?
    Walt if someone has 5 acres of property and the grow is in the middle of the property and not visible from property boundaries how would neighbors know about it? Give4 me some examples.

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  17. A. Patriot Avatar
    A. Patriot

    Is it not true that Measure S may be amended and / or repealed (from Ms. Rebane’s table) by another ballot action in a new election? In other words, by the voters? We the people, instead of an out of touch group of 5 with political clout, subject to special interest influence? Sounds pretty American to me. To say it is unamendable seem disingenuous. In fact, I maintain that S leaves certain issues undefined for the express purpose of allowing the County to make decisions in related areas not discussed specifically in Measure S.

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  18. Walt Avatar

    The sheriff has pot hunter overflights Paul,, that’s nothing new.
    Think they can see recommendations posted from the air?
    And if the grow is of any size, odor travels. Funny I sit on close to 5 acres. it’s not that much. Even in the center that’s less than 500 yards in any given direction.
    Your average football field is one acre. I can smell the grow that’s across the county road, and there is two other houses between me and the road, and they don’t grow.
    That crap stinks. There is no hiding it. Now. How the hell do I know if it’s a legal grow?
    Riddle me that,, “dope”man….

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  19. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 939pm – You’ve finally confirmed my point that both S and 2349 have the same ambiguity for enforcement, and the property rights thing was a red herring in this discussion when it comes to a choice between S and 2349. I will deal with the property rights viz code inspection in a separate post.
    APatriot 954pm – have no idea where you are coming from. But reading your comments, it appears that your reasoning is pretty ragged. You also haven’t read this comment stream, so you believe you are raising new points when you keep circling the barn. Yes, that’s one of the established weaknesses of S is that it cannot be changed (‘amended’ is not the right word) without holding another expensive election. And the county coming up with S+ codes has been amply covered here as a weakness of S.
    And on governance you’re a bit rusty on the blessings of the democratic republic that our Founders left us. The last thing you want is for a semi-literate, disinterested, and/or uninformed electorate voting on specific laws. That engenders pure democracy which for nation-states has been the kiss of death. We elect representatives to make laws for us. California is Exhibit A for the ills of having sound-bite driven voters making laws to which the chickenshit politicians would not risk attaching their names.
    And the last thing I’d call this BoS is “out of touch”. We might not agree with all their actions, but this is one of the most informed BoSs that the county has had.
    Signing off, it’s my bed time.

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  20. Walt Avatar

    Just for A.P.’s info, and just in case he missed my prior posts, I rented to a person who had an MMJ “script. They turned my property into a grow house. Not the two plants the “promised”. The damage was so severe I had to sell the damned place. And you want to subject others to that potential problem? If someone doesn’t want to rent to someone who grows, that’s his right. Dope growers are not a protected class, free of being discriminated. Just like “No pets allowed”.
    You want to rent to a grower? have at it. No one is stopping you. Hope you can afford the aftermath.

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  21. Walt Avatar

    Bill.. Remember what I said about the Bundy standoff in regards to these new water cops?
    Ranchers and “real” private property supporters will have none of this. The state has gone too far…. Again. The armed standoffs are coming.

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  22. A. Patriot Avatar
    A. Patriot

    For Walt’s info, I’m a landlord, have been for decades. I’ve had responsible tenants and I’ve made mistakes that have cost me big. I’ve learned to write strong leases, do good background checks, trust in my gut and know that its part of the business. I’d have no problem renting to a legit patient/grower that passed my rigorous standards. Sorry you got a bad one, I don’t deny there are plenty out there. I’ll address more of Mr. Rebane’s points above when I’m fresh. I will say that I agree, S does have its weaknesses, and I’ll take its weaknesses and look for improvement, as S as a vast improvement over the current ordinance. Goodnight all.

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  23. A. Patriot Avatar
    A. Patriot

    A quick apology and good morning to Dr. Rebane. Forgive me for not addressing you as Dr. – George, (if I may) it is amazing how closely your background and my Dad’s match (PhD. Nuclear Physics). DoD., it would not surprise me at all if you know him. I also worked (with him) on the Imagination Pavilion prior to EPCOT’s opening. It’s a small, small, curious world.

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  24. Walt Avatar

    Wait a minute.. I have heard this line before! Same guy,, just a different fictitious name!
    Man O man.. I’m feeling generous and won’t rat you out. I will let the others figure this one out. DAMN!!! it’s tempting. ( damned near word for word.)

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  25. A. Patriot Avatar
    A. Patriot

    Walt, maybe on the old Union comment free for all. My views are pretty consistent, but I try to keep an open mind.

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  26. George Rebane Avatar

    APatriot 1114pm – My company delivered 83 ASCIT™ (interactive multimedia videodisc) systems to Disney’s EPCOT. These were emplaced in the park’s CommuniCore facility – the big building on your right as you entered EPCOT’s main gate. EPCOT’s objective was to showcase the future of interactive communication and urban transport (people movers). The ASCIT dialogs (interactive multimedia programs) Disney featured ranged from educational through travelogues to promotional. ATT had the contract for the park’s information kiosks (much simpler touch screen systems) located throughout.
    And thank you for the kind words on the honorific. When we moved into these foothills, I somehow lost my PhD and became Mr again. It seems that most folks around here only know to call someone Dr if they are a physician, dentist, chiropractor, or veterinarian. As your dad will tell you, we PhD’s get a little snooty looking at today’s proliferation of the ‘Dr’ honorific for all kinds of degrees and certifications. A couple of other PhD friends up here have suffered the same ignominy, so I really don’t feel singled out 😉
    PhDs (ScDs) are still awarded only to those who have expanded the domain of human knowledge, which expansion has been recognized by their peers. Just mastering an existing body of knowledge was never sufficient to earn an academic PhD. Before about 1800 only people who did successfully ‘philosophize’ – extend knowledge – received that vaunted and always used appellation of Doctor, which then did not always require matriculation from a university – e.g. Dr Ben Franklin. But then around 1800 a select group of physicians (formerly grouped with barbers) began serious study and contributions to biology and physiology, they too, with some considerable justification, demanded to be called Dr. And then things got out of control. By the 1830s anyone with formal medical training or just claiming it anointed himself with Dr, and the rest is history. Someday I should do a piece on the current role and spotty practice of maintaining honorifics in our society. Please pass my greetings to your dad.

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  27. Walt Avatar

    Don’t feel TOO bad Doc. ,, My “PHD”,, dosn’t get much attention either.
    Mine only seems useful up here in the sticks.” Dr. Dirt ” will never be found in the phone book. But some good news,,, EMPLOYMENT!!

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  28. Walt Avatar

    Up here Doc. PHD stands for Post, Hole, Digger.

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  29. George Rebane Avatar

    Walt 1059am – A worthy and useful profession indeed.

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  30. Paul Emery Avatar

    No George
    There is no ambiguity with 2349. Have you read it? It’s quite specific. Code searches on demand without a search warrant. Glad you’re going to address that in the near future.
    Walt, the sheriff said in the hearings for 2349 that it would be “complaint” driven. What does that have to do with air photo’s?

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  31. Walt Avatar

    Simple, Paul It’s not hard to count pot plants from the air.
    It’s obvious you haven’t took my suggestion to use google earth and take a look for yourself, just to see how many grows in any given part of the county, or any other part of the state for that matter. They stick out like a sore butthole.
    It’s not just the county. The state, and FEDS have the same over flights. Nevada Co. is NOT a sovereign state our country. That’t why growing within the local jurisdiction guidelines is important.
    It that just TOO much for you to understand? The ILLEGAL grows outnumber the legal ones
    That point never sinks into that head of yours.
    Look on the bright side Paul If “S” passes, even MORE complaints and busts will happen.
    The Sheriff and his boys will be as busy as a three balled Billy goat. OR a mosquito at a nudest colony… ” Where do I start?”
    So good job in inviting even more knocks on the door. The profiteers will go to jail just the same.

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  32. Walt Avatar

    Well now.. Just what was I saying last night about the effects of pot grows?
    Well looky what shows up today..
    http://www.denverpost.com/marijuana/ci_26634339/biologists-identify-pot-gardens-salmon-threat
    So.. We have a problem here. Our own “fish people” ( Yuba and Bear river guardians)
    will have something to say in this matter.

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  33. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Good thoughts there Dr. Dirt. Is that post hole digger or posthole digger?
    Come on, somebody pleazzzzze throw Mr. Paul a bone. His OCD is out of control and it is becoming quite unladylike. Paul is playing that broken record over and over again and is doing the monkey trying to hump a football again and again and again. Somebody have mercy on his tortured soul.
    ok Mr. Paul, neither ordinance addresses nor gives a solution to the grievous concerns you raise. So, what do you want to hear? How about “Bad sheriff, bad!” or “down boy down!” Or take a page out of Brother Ben’s playground script and cry “it’s not fair.” I liked it better when you just cried “Bush did it too!” and that seemed to make it all better. Don’t know what else to say since the topic of S or the current ordinance ain’t satisfying ya. You won’t find the answer here as long as pound your spoon and act like the fat bully over on the unmentionable blog. Go Paul Go! Seek and ye shall find.

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  34. Paul Emery Avatar

    Walt
    Profiters go to jail……..
    Who pays for that Walt?

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  35. Walt Avatar

    Cry me a river Paul, How bout those seized assets? Tax evasion can be a real bitch.
    Anything they can assume was paid for with ill gotten gains is sold at auction.
    Don’t worry,, the perps. don’t stay in jail long. They never do. Even the busted one is out on bail.
    Heck.. There is already a revolving door on all the jails. We can’t keep the bad guys in as it is.

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  36. Paul Emery Avatar

    So Walt your solution is to put them all in jail and seize all their property.

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  37. Walt Avatar

    So you condone breaking the law and tax evasion?
    But LIBS like you love taxes…

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  38. Walt Avatar

    The same thing happens to some guy caught dredging Paul, his equipment is seized, and goes to jail, and fined.. Heavily. All on bogus crimes against the “environment”.

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  39. Paul Emery Avatar

    Walt
    So dredgers are actually in jail Walt. News to me. Are they in County, State or Federal institutions ?

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  40. Walt Avatar

    They have been Paul, You just never read about it. It’s not big news.
    Now you can comment on MJ grows and endangered Salmon. It must be true, since it comes from NOAA. How many times have you referenced them?
    So you condone breaking the law, and tax evasion? Spill it.

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  41. Paul Emery Avatar

    I support growers that are within the guidlines of California State Law

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  42. Walt Avatar

    That’s the best you got? You can do a lot better than that. You sure have been sticking up for ANY grower. EVEN the illegal ones. Read your own posts! You can’t have it both ways.
    Dementia HAS set in….
    Now what about those fish?

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  43. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    And what does this ink blot look like? It looks like Bush now does it not? Here, what does this other ink blot look like? Why, it looks like Bush’s face on a marijuana leaf. And what does this small ink blot look like? Why, it looks like a legal grow.

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  44. Walt Avatar

    LOL Bill,, Paul just threw “the busted one” under the bus. Let’s see if bus driver Paul backs up to finish the job.

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  45. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Yep, he painted himself in a corner on that one. Supports growers within the legal guidelines of State law, yet is sympathetic to old unemployable ar-tists with 30 plants and only one script.
    How much does that cost us Paul queries? I reckon about the same taxpayer costs as throwing methheads, wife beaters, court date no shows, vandals, liars, cheats, thieves and those that stomp on peoples’ feet in the pokey, the clink, the lock up, the slammer, the Big House. All costs about the same to get them out of my line of vision. Oops, I forgot them peaceful down and out drunks intoxicated in public, homeless arsonists, fc Peeping Toms, opossum abusers, and those that get their kicks doing malicious mischief.. The people business is a dirty business I tell ya.
    Heck, a person on welfare in the Great State of Californkeeia makes $30,130.00 per year tax free while the poverty level is 25k before taxes. Probably more than most DJs make. Who pays for that and how much goes that cost the taxpayer? Now, what does this ink blot look life. That’s right, it looks like a jailhouse with a big marihuana leaf in the background.

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  46. Walt Avatar

    thanks Paul, It took me a while, but I got you to scuttle your own ship.
    The info. supplied about pot grows and endangered salmon? Your cricket fest on that is deafening.
    Why so quiet all of a sudden? An Irishman got your tongue? ( and fingers?)
    The pro pot side scram to the cartel infested hills?
    Yes, it sure sucks when facts come into the picture.

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  47. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Walt
    Can you provide me with a link showing dredgers have had their property (land) taken and are in jail. You’re right I haven’t read about that. Thanks for the help.
    By the way what is NOAA? I’ve never used that anachronism.

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  48. Walt Avatar

    Not doing your homework for you this time. You provide jack sh** on anything.
    I posted the link above on NOAA.. use it. ( Sure you have, in your AGW rants.)

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