Rebane's Ruminations
September 2014
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[This November Nevada County voters will decide whether to adopt a new and revised marijuana ordinance or keep the existing one.  The marijuana cultivation issue continues to generate more heat than light.  Here is one comparative analysis that was published in the September edition of The Nugget, the monthly newsletter of Nevada County Republican Women Federated.  Its author Jo Ann Rebane is 2nd VP and Legislative Chair of the NCRWF.  (She also happens to be my wife.)

The piece includes a downloadable pdf of a spreadsheet that compares by attribute the current ordinance with the ballot’s Measure S.  I have also included that spreadsheet below the text.  Readers may wish to consider and share a third column that contains their druthers for a new ordinance. gjr]

Jo Ann Rebane

For a moment, set aside these facts: that Marijuana is listed by the Federal Controlled Substances Act as a Schedule 1 Drug which has a high potential for abuse; that, according to Dr. Mitchell S. Rosenthal founder of Phoenix House, substance abuse treatment and prevention center, “…pot damages the heart and lungs, increases the incidence of anxiety, depression and schizophrenia…”; that marijuana does lasting damage to the brains of adolescents and it impairs learning, memory and judgment according to Dr. Nora Volkow’s  research at  Northwestern University; that Colorado and Washington states have legalized recreational use of marijuana; that California voters in 1996 approved Prop 215 allowing marijuana cultivation for medical purposes only; and that cities and counties may adopt and enforce ordinances consistent with the state’s health and safety code. 

What we do need to focus on right here in Nevada County is Measure S on the November ballot.  According to Nevada County Supervisor Richard Anderson, proponents of Measure S want voters to replace a liberal ordinance with a more liberal ordinance.  The current medical marijuana cultivation ordinance, adopted in May 2012 specifies where, how, and how much medical marijuana may be cultivated in unincorporated residential and agricultural areas of the county. The current ordinance has enforcement, appeal and abatement provisions, and provides the community a means to alleviate nuisance marijuana “grows” and encourages those who legitimately grow it for their personal medical use to be good neighbors.  


Measure S reached our ballot as an initiative – written for and circulated by the Nevada County branch of Americans for Safe Access, possibly as a test case for a statewide push at a later date.  The Nevada County Board of Supervisors, the Coalition for a Drug Free Nevada County and the Nevada County Republican Party each oppose Measure S.  They find that, if approved, every aspect of the current medical marijuana cultivation ordinance would be loosened, favoring growers and disadvantaging the general welfare of the community.  Measure S weakens and removes current code provisions.  Measure S increases the allowed square footage of indoor “grows” by 500% in the extreme.  Measure S replaces the square footage limits for outdoor “grows” with specific immature and mature marijuana plant numbers and allows indoor and outdoor cultivation on the same parcel.  Measure S also allows renters to cultivate medical marijuana without obtaining their landlord’s written permission to use his property in that way and to make changes to his electrical and plumbing systems without his knowledge.  Measure S allows cultivation of medical marijuana without limitation in and on parcels zoned for commercial, business park, office professional, airport, and industrial.

Finally, Measure S reduces the set-back buffer distance from schools, churches, parks, daycare centers and youth facilities by 40% and removes set-back requirements from outdoor living areas and school bus stops.  Sheriff Keith Royal notes that Measure S eliminates enforcement, appeal,  and  abatement provisions which will leave the county no means to respond to citizen complaints regarding nuisance marijuana “grows”.  When does a garden become a commercial truck farm?  

I have made a detailed comparison of the current medical marijuana cultivation ordinance and Measure S.  It is available on our website as a printable pdf  www.nevadacountyrwf.org .

[4sep14 update] The Union ran a page-one story on Measure S and this piece today.  Here is the link to the same piece in its e-edition.

[6sep14 update] It occurred to me that no one has discussed how subsequent action may take place on an ordinance instituted through a ballot measure.  While a BoS initiated ordinance may be repealed or modified by a vote of the BoS, California code requires that ordinances instituted through ballot measures must come to a vote of the people again if they are to be amended or repealed.  The spreadsheet below has been updated to include this subject/category.]

[The spreadsheet is also available here Download Marijuana Meas S study 17aug14 (v6sep14) .  The current code – Ordinance 2349 – is available here (10MB download); and a copy of Measure S is available here.]

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257 responses to “Medical Marijuana Cultivation Initiative – Nevada County Ballot Measure S (updated 6sep14)”

  1. Paul Emery Avatar

    Also Walt, legalizing would save 8.7 Billion a year in tax dollars according to the Cato institute.
    http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/pubs/pdf/DrugProhibitionWP.pdf
    Gosh, I thought you were concerned abut government spending

    Like

  2. Walt Avatar

    George 03 September 2014 at 08:55 AM
    Since I admittedly have plenty of “experience” on the working stiff’s point of view on this subject, I would be more than happy to add my “two cents” to any
    meaningful crafting ( as you put it) of an ordinance. Even at a lowly county level. But my input would most certainly be worthless, since I look at it in the dollars and cents,, and employment of the “prescribed patient” end of things.
    That goes right to the state and FED level.
    I’m for verification of compliance of growers. Amount of crop grown, to what the prescribed user receives. I’m for enforcing the “non profit” line. That includes the grower, despite what Paul states.
    Nope, the growers will not be happy with my opinion or ideas on the matter.
    We need to keep the skimming of the “product” out of the hands of street sellers.
    MJ is still illegal for recreational “use”.. That’s just the way it is.

    Like

  3. Walt Avatar

    Paul. What part of DRUG don’t you comprehend? It “F”‘s up your head just like booze. It’s an impairment. A good joint in the morning, and your not worth a shit the rest of they day.
    Coke and crack next on your list? How many more worthless deadbeats do the taxpayers need to take care of, since they would be too damned stoned to hold a job?
    Oh.. MY apologies. The job situation is already a disaster (thanks to LIBS)there are non to be had.( even less when the sober illegals come knocking thanks to “O”) Yup,, let the young smoke their brains out. ” Wake and bake” Paul,, then off to the free stuff line.

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  4. Paul Emery Avatar

    Walt
    You’re putting words into my mouth. I am talking only about Marijuana. Yes or no.
    Also, do you have a cost estimate of what creation of you’re 3:43 would be? Additional taxes would be necessary to fund a very detailed and intricate bureaucracy to achieve those ends. Would that be County or State level?

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  5. Walt Avatar

    Paul needs to make take a little experiment. Grab one of your young stoner
    clan off the streets of Nevada City, give him/her a big fat joint and have at it. Then in half an hour sit the subject down for a few common core math problems and see just how well that turns out. Be sure to publish the “findings”. ( even which end of the pencil was used.)

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  6. Walt Avatar

    Tax the growers at 50%. Their not claiming it now anyway.
    Remember that Lefty cry? ” pay your fair share!”

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  7. Walt Avatar

    Also,, if a landlord doesn’t want growing in or on his rental property, so be it. It’s HIS. If the tenant signs that agreement under false pretenses, and the landlord finds out, immediate termination of the “contract” and out in 24 hours. No moneys to be returned to the liar.
    That’s not discrimination.

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  8. Paul Emery Avatar

    Walt-So you’re for legalization with taxation.
    The tenant issue is irrelevant to the question.

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  9. Walt Avatar

    Scratch that.. 45%… I’m feeling generous… ( besides.. that the standard corp. rate)

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  10. Walt Avatar

    Nope,,, MMJ grower rate. They are already fleecing the med. patients blind.

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  11. Walt Avatar

    I’m beginning to believe your stoned while posting. Your not comprehending a damned thing I’m saying. ( let alone reading what I post.)

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  12. Paul Emery Avatar

    Gosh Darn Walt, you are sure willing to use the hammer of the Government For something you feel strongly about!

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  13. Paul Emery Avatar

    Nope, re:4:45) It’s never been my method of diversion. I prefer Jamison Irish Whisky, straight, no ice, room temperature at home while watching Clint Eastwood reruns.
    What is there to comprehend? What you say is pretty simple to understand. Spend Billions of tax dollars to arrest and incarcerate stoners and their providers. You have never said it should be legalized.

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  14. Walt Avatar

    Uh,, I have never been “anti gov.” Just where in hell did that come from?
    ( Limited gov. ,, yes.) And keeping a drug in check isn’t out of the question.
    Unlike the EPA that you love so much. And you say I like the “hammer of gov”.?
    We can hardly turn over a shovel full of dirt without a permit, yet you want free, unregulated use of mind altering drugs.
    ( yup,, he’s stoned….)

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  15. Walt Avatar

    Irish whiskey?? GOOD GOD man! That stuff is filtered though sheep dung., and plywood aged. ( it sure tastes like it.)
    American sour mash single barrel. Have some pride.
    Or Tennessee Panther piss (guaranteed 15 minutes old before jarring)now sold in stores near you, is the proper thing to sip. Plus it puts hair back on your head.
    BTW, and legal to consume without a doctors note.

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  16. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    So that is what this all boils down to, eh Paul? Legalize pot or don’t. None of these mamby pamby baby steps in between. Finally. Then when it is legalized, are we going to have any regs, restrictions, laws concerning full blown legalization? Any restrictions on transportation or quantities or possession like other states have? If we limit possession of recreation grass to say, 30 pounds a person, isn’t that still going to make some folks criminals as well? Ok, if we limit legal possession to say, 30 ounces, will the folks be satisfied? I am certain if we limit transportation of marijuana to say, a pound, would not that create criminals as well and overrun our court system?
    Well, you finally came out and said what you desire. That was a good step so now we don’t have to dance around this medical marijuana antiquated notion. That was so 1999 anyway. I must say you need to come up with a better rationale than it costs too much to throw potheads in the slammer. That is a slippery slope that crankset gangsta methheads’ loved ones could use in future arguments.
    Are you saying, Mr. Paul, that just say no doesn’t work? Shoot, and I liked that Hugs not Drugs slogan. It was cute, but I found that “Be like me, I’m drug free” bumper stickers rather arrogant and self serving.
    Well, guess it all boils down to there are two kinds of people in CA: those that inhale and those that don’t.

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  17. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Mr. Paul, are you saying legalize it but don’t regulate it? Hmm. Why would I ever consider paying taxes on my medicine since I do not pay taxes on it now up at Rite-Aide or Wal-Greens. Why should I pay taxes for tomatoes and carrots grown in my yard? You must be brain dead to think mom and pop growers are going to pay one thin dime for something that is legal to grow in the vegetable herb garden or out in the woodshed. Ha, ha. That is a good one. Hey Mr Paul, why not institute the honor system. Make it voluntary compliance. You know, that the potheads and cultivators police and self- regulate themselves. That would work like a charm….on some other planet in some other universe.
    Yep, all you growers and dealers who are here to pay taxes, please form a line to the far far left.

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  18. Walt Avatar

    Bill.. Paul claims that he’s not a user of MJ ” It’s never been my method of diversion.” but thinks a good idea to set it loose upon the public.
    Proof positive Scotch rots the brain. ( yet makes the case weed is safer than booze… A broke clock is right twice a day…. Go figure.)

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  19. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    No Bill, No Walt
    I never said no regs
    First of all Legalization should be up to the State. Let’s get the Feds out of it. Can we agree on that? McClintock is on the right path on that one.
    Let each State pursue it’s own path on details such as taxation. There will be great diversity from State to State just like in the use of alcohol or Tobacco.
    As far as production let each State have it’s own regs. There will be boutique growers with distinctive skills that will offer custom brands much like Scotland has with Scotch or Bourbon Whiskey or Beer or Wine. Nevada County will be well represented for sure with some growers having 30 years experience.
    That’s a rough and not complete view I have of legalization. Basically, let the States decide, dump the Feds to put it bluntly.
    Walt
    I don’t drink Scotch! Irish is my preference.
    To keep pot illegal is to further enhance the profits of gangsters and cartels just like during prohibition. By the way, law enforcement lobbied against the 21st Amendment till the bitter end just like they oppose MJ legalization. If they had their way it would still be a
    Federal crime to have a beer during a barbecue or a glass of wine with dinner. It’s a cash cow for incarceration facilitators and law enforcement agencies that don’t want to kill the golden goose. That 8 Billion $ referred to earlier was only for Fed enforcement and did not include prisons or State and local costs. You can only guess how much the actual cost is.

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  20. Walt Avatar

    We have seen how the “free use” of drugs affects people’s minds. I give you S.F. as a prime example. Then they migrated to Nevada City.
    Not once have you stated anything about “your” idea of regulations. None.. Nodda.
    Pot rights over land lord rights etc.

    Like

  21. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Why are you so hung up on landlord rights? The fact is you’d be amazed at the amount of “sharecropping” going on in Nevada County. An illegal Marijuana grow (one beyond the State law) is a very expensive proposition so deals are made with landlords to share the profits. It is SOP that the landlords use deny ability due to ignorance if the shit hits the fan. Property owners sometime seek out skilled growers to grow crops on their land. Look at the Hilkey bust on the Ridge as an example.
    Small operations may sneak by but not grows of a large scale which are illegal anyway because they don’t conform with State law.
    You still seem to opposed to states rights in this matter.

    Like

  22. Walt Avatar

    Thanks for showing where your priorities lie. Seems you have a vested interest in “growing”. What’s your percentage?

    Like

  23. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Paul, WA State allows one ounce for possession. Down here in this neck of the woods, that would be called draconian. So, let the States set their own standards, which is fine by me. That we can agree on. Just like Nevada allows and regulates the world’s oldest profession and various States have dry counties. New Mexico used to bar selling booze on Sundays, unless of course you knew somebody on the Rez that would meet you around back, but I digress. We have last call at 2:00am, other states have it at 3am. Even local juristicions opt for dry counties. So, I see your point and they regulate and tax the shit out of it, like tobacco and gasoline.
    Guess marijuana is just another commodity that will be regulated and have it taxed to high heaven. Like the Lotto, our schools win too! Nowadays computer chips are considered a commodity as they are sold by the ton….like pot will be.
    So, in short, you are willing to let the voters of CA decide. Think that is best. We up here in pot country may have a skewed view of marijuana since it is our biggest cash cow and largest employer. Just seems to me that the messed up way our State runs anything, it will be a cash cow for the State only as our local dollars will be sucked out of the economy. Somebody has to shoulder the burden of having 1/3 of the nation’s welfare recipients here in the Golden Goose state and it might as well be our growers and sellers of our fine marihuana.
    Can’t count on Silicon Valley to pay for it all much longer. Silicon Valley, like our experienced boutique growers Is maturing. Tesla announced today that it is building its new huge mega giga humongous battery factory in the Great State of Nevada and we can kiss another 6,000 skilled jobs adios. We better get moving with a purpose and legalize marihuana cause the State needs desperately to tax the beegeezes out of something ASAP besides gasoline and cigs and rock gut Irish whiskey.
    Irish whiskey. Irish whiskey? Paul, God created Irish whiskey to keep the Irish from ruling anything. Screw that stuff. Firewater or moonshine or Pabst Blue Ribbon, anything but what the Irish consume. Have you lost what is left of your mind, man?

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  24. Walt Avatar

    No bloody wonder now why Paul wants the regs.s relaxed. He’s out for the buck to be made. Remember that rope I mentioned? Now you sprung the trap door.
    The jig is up Paul, Your no better than the Wall St. money grubbers you have complained about.

    Like

  25. Walt Avatar

    My work is done here. Good luck digging yourself out of that hole.

    Like

  26. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Yep, Mr. Paul does not seem too concerned about the plight of the landlords stuck cleaning up the smell of a grow house. Shows no sympathy in the least…it’s almost as if he has contempt for landlords. What’s yours is mine and what’s mine is mine. Next thing you know he will be rallying the troops for legalization of recreational pot coupled with rent control and some new ordinance barring landlords from setting foot on their…er…the renters’ property. Paul, me thinks you have tunnel vision on this one. Sticking it to the man is so 40 years ago. But, when the revolution comes……well, when the revolution finally comes, the streets will be filled with angry youth chanting don’t trust anybody over thirty and they will be sticking it to you, cause you b da man. And what can you do about it? Nothing, cause we will be all too old to even get a rise. You will be sitting on the porch just a swinging and doing long deep inhales all day long, for medicinal purposes of course.

    Like

  27. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    What the hell are you talking about? That’s it for me.

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  28. Walt Avatar

    Hammer? Check… Nails? check. Coffin lid set nice and square? Check.. BAM! BAM! BAM! Paul’s argument for “S” ,,, RIP!
    Paul uses people with a medical condition as an excuse for his own ends.
    It has jack squat to do with their “access” to “medication”. It’s all about the growers, and their ability to grow more, with less restrictions.
    For his own personal gain? That’s for the readers here to decide. All I did was get him to spill the evidence. The court of public opinion is now in session.

    Like

  29. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    “What’s your percentage”
    Walt-Are you accusing me of a felony? Say it again or shut the fuck up.
    Bill
    No deep inhales for me. That’s so 60’s. Just straight Jamison, no ice at room temperature.

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  30. Walt Avatar

    Just asking a question. Remember? growing is legal. ( as you say the law sates.)
    Your entire “argument” is about that. You said “profit” is OK. I “accuse you” of nothing. Your words speak for themselves.
    So who should STFU?
    No wonder you have been dancing all over the place and being as vague as possible.
    Please point to the flat out ” you did it”.
    Did I say you are personally growing to sell on the street? No.
    You got bested, and your pissed. Deal with it.

    Like

  31. Walt Avatar

    Paul says,,
    under current law Marijuana cultivation is a legitimate cottage industry.
    “It’s the dispensaries that are non profits, not the producers. That is established California law”
    Remember? it OK to grow for many people, You know, “collectives”. Those growers can rake in big profits, and legally in your opinion. So “IF” you happen to be associated in some way, shape or form, just where is that felony you speak of?
    Which takes us back to your “just compensation”..
    You may want to revisit all your posts. Nowhere did you complain about growers of MMJ making huge profits. Yet you defend the practice. ( in a roundabout, but obvious way.)
    You Sir, now owe ME an apology.

    Like

  32. Brad Avatar
    Brad

    Walt, we are talking about Measure S. If you want to talk about landlord rights, tax evasion, workplace safety -please take it to the sandbox.

    Like

  33. Patricia Smith Avatar

    The current County Ordinance is a slap in the face to thousands of patients in this County. It was written to treat legitimate patients like they are members of the drug cartel. It is virtually impossible to be in total compliance with this ordinance and I find it hard to believe that “less government” types support a law that is this deceptive. The County ordinance nonsensically makes it illegal to grow on a hillside. That provision alone makes the other 27 pages of regulations meaningless. And yes, patients have been cited for just this regulation. The landlord provision is unnecessary because it can be dealt with in a lease. Simply state whether cultivation is allowed or not – and do your due diligence by checking on your property once in awhile. Getting a notarized letter offers no more protections to a landlord than a lease does. In fact, it offers less, because a bad tenant simply won’t tell the landlord and then there is nothing in place to say that his activity violates his lease. A little common sense would go a long way. And we left out enforcement measure intentionally so that the Sheriff can draft whatever measures he feels he needs to combat those who exceed the provisions of Measure S, but passing Measure S will give legitimate patients the ability to produce their medicine in peace and places reasonable restrictions on where and how much they can grow.

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  34. Gary Smith Avatar

    Patricia:
    I find it hard to believe that “less government” types support a law that is this deceptive.
    Us older guys grew up in the generation where growing pot was a felony and if you were caught growing you went to real prison for many years. I remember seeing refer madness anti drug films in high school where the guy smoked pot while looking into a mirror and his head turned into a werewolf. This has been drummed into our heads from youth and us that don’t use pot have 50 years of Nancy Reagan “just say no”, and the government tell us how bad it is. It is still illegal on the federal level. This how one reason less government types have a hard time with medical pot. This is not going to easy for Measure S to overcome as the older generation is more likely to vote. You guys need a major get out the vote campaign if this is going to pass.

    Like

  35. Gerry Fedor Avatar
    Gerry Fedor

    Let’s try to get some FACT’s out there….
    1. There are 2200+ school bus stops out there, and only 111 are active school stops. These are NOT provided by Nevada County or Durham Bus Services, because they are afraid of “child molesters” and neither party have ever disclosed these locations, some which have not been used since 1952.
    This information was requested for 3+ year with the County telling the ASA that they would not provide this information.
    The statement that these bus stops are published in the newspaper is not accurate at all.
    2. Water usage – Russ you posted that the typical plant uses 6 gallons’s per day, and that they average garden is 100 plants….. This again is a pure fabrication as the average garden size in Nevada County is 12 plants, using 1-2 gallons in the early part of the grow season (June – August) and 3-4 gallons (September – October), so your 600 gallons per day is a bit far fetched.
    3. The basis for this ordinance was a purported grow on Annie Drive (15900 Annie Drive), and you can see the news report that the Sheriff gave about it, yet if you go into the Google Earth Site and look at this site (which is on a hillside below the PG&E lines) there is no such grow…..
    The Sheriff’s shows a huge greenhouse (uncovered) as well as another huge adjoining grow, on a flat site, yet this site is on a 45% gradient
    The questions for me is were these “incidents”, which were the basis for this ordinance, “fabrications” by our Sheriff?
    (http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/09/26/pot-grow-near-grass-valley-school-concerns-neighbors/)
    4. There is a abatement process set up, where you get a hearing infront of a County Appointed panel to determine if an abatement should occur, and there have been 630+ such abatement notices done in 2014, 450+ in 2013, 220+ in 2013, yet not one of these has survived and been able to keep their garden.
    Why have the abatement process at all? Why are we paying Nevada County Staff Abatement Team members extra money to conduct this process?
    5. The Sheriff purported that his office was getting 30-50 complaints a day (May thru the end of November) which would be @6,500-10,400 complaints a year, yet when the ASA did a FOI request he responded that “we didn’t write them down…..”
    This is the reason why this ordinance was written up as a “nuisance ordinance”.
    6. The current ordinance requires you the have a 8′ tall solid wood fence around your garden, and if you are on 5 acres, then you have a 10′ x 10′ space with a 8′ tall fence around it….
    How much sunlight is going to get into the plants?
    7. With Measure S he number of plants is strictly controlled, and there are no 100, 90, 80, 70, or 61 plant grows. If you are on 30+ acres (which is .023% of all Nevada County Properties) then you can grow 60 plants.
    8. Legalization is coming, wither it’s from the Legislature, or from the voters it’s coming, so then what? Do we allow growers to then become producers of this crop, and keep the financial resources in our county, or do we walk away from this income stream in our county?
    Businesses such as Sierra Plumbing have told me that they make @$200,000 a year from sales to growers. This means that they have 2 additional staff members who are paid with the proceeds from these sales. If we close down this in Nevada County, will we see more unemployment? My answer is absolutely! You’ll see property values drop. My proof of this is that if you look at Yuba County property values for parcels over 10 acres, they are selling typically in 2-3 days, and most are getting 15-20% over asking. Nevada County does not have anywhere as a aggressive real estate market.
    9. The indoors growing restrictions on 100 sq feet (contiguous garden – no walls) does not work as the way that cannabis grows is that the changing of the light cycle is what causes the plant to flower and bud, so by having no walls you are limited to have no genetic resources for your next crop. This means that you can only produce 1-3 pounds a year, and most patients use much more than that, especially if they are cooking.
    Several small children are deriving tinctures, and using 3 pounds a month.
    10. The State of California reconizes “collectives” (where patients can grow together) and after a judges decision, Nevada County was forced to do so, yet they will not alot anymore agre to those collective grows.
    11. The current ordinance disallows any type of terracing as they say that it promotes erosion, yet you you look at the State of California Erosion control rules and regulations, they state that terracing is required to prevent erosion.
    12. Nevada County regulations say that you have to grow on a perfectly flat surface….. (and being in hill country I have not seen any one of these yet…).
    13. Several weeks ago a 70+ year old woman on Garden Bar (56 acres 24 plants at the very end of the road with not visibility to anyone), was accosted out of bed naked by 9 riot gear dressed officers, and forced to stand on her porch naked for 5 hours which the NCSO destroyed the inside of her home. She asked them several times for the search warrant, and after 4 weeks she still has not seen it. They destroyed every door and door frame, and then, after she found her dog’s blanket to cover up, was told that she needed to leave the property as they didn’t have enough officers to watch her and conduct a search….
    This is typical of what the ASA group see’s on a weekly basis.
    The question for me is if you believe in property rights, as well as civil rights how can you support this

    Like

  36. Walt Avatar

    (d) eliminating
    various nuisance control regulations and restrictions pertaining to the cultivation of marijuana
    including odor control, noise, dust, traffic, lighting, anti-glare, noxious gasses, and smoke
    restrictions, fencing and security requirements, and the requirement that tenants obtain written,
    notarized consent to cultivate medical marijuana from the legal parcel owner;
    Brad.. You see that last “change”?
    “and the requirement that tenants obtain written,
    notarized consent to cultivate medical marijuana from the legal parcel owner”
    That means LANDLORD.. Be it on open ground, or in a house.
    I got bit in the ass by a “MMJ” grower. MY property was so damaged I couldn’t afford the repairs and had to sell the damned place.
    And that was after I made it clear (and in writing) NO GROWING!
    “S” will leave other landlords fully in the dark with no say of how THEIR property is being “used”.

    Like

  37. Gerry Fedor Avatar
    Gerry Fedor

    See Walt, you and I have a difference of opinion here, as I believe that when you are a landlord you should actually ENFORCE your own rules…..
    I’m sorry but to me this means that you actually go by the property (on a regular basis, like I do with all of my properties) and actually do more than just get a rent check every month. I know that I’m asking for a lot for people like you to do something as hard as to actually drive by your property / rental home, but I’m sorry that you were bitten by your inability to do a fairly simple task…..
    The biggest problem with the landlord letter issue, is that it violates the self incrimination clause of our Constitution, you remember what that piece of paper is right?
    You State:
    “S” will leave other landlords fully in the dark with no say of how THEIR property is being “used”.
    When in reality Measure S does no such thing. If you think that you should just sit around and never go to look at your property, then you’re truly a “special kind of guy” who will continue to have problems, but those of us who have rental properties and look at them like a business will never have problems……

    Like

  38. Gerry Fedor Avatar
    Gerry Fedor

    Walt, do you have Google Earth on your computer?
    I’d like to get your thoughts to what I posted above, I’ll repost it below…
    3. The basis for this ordinance was a purported grow on Annie Drive (15900 Annie Drive), and you can see the news report that the Sheriff gave about it, yet if you go into the Google Earth Site and look at this site (which is on a hillside below the PG&E lines) there is no such grow…..
    The Sheriff’s shows a huge greenhouse (uncovered) as well as another huge adjoining grow, on a flat site, yet this site is on a 45% gradient
    The questions for me is were these “incidents”, which were the basis for this ordinance, “fabrications” by our Sheriff?
    (http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/09/26/pot-grow-near-grass-valley-school-concerns-neighbors/)
    Thanks!

    Like

  39. Walt Avatar

    I hear there my be gold under your house. Let me “rent it” and start digging.
    What? I didn’t find any? Darn.. ( Now you fill in the hole.) Look at the bright side. You got a basement for free. I could just say I wasn’t mining. ( Those permits are murder..) I just like to dig holes. No permit required for that, and be well within “my rights”. There was nothing written in the agreement that I can’t dig holes.
    Yes, that’s an over simplification, but you get the idea.
    Under “S”,, If I showed up to “inspect” I still would have no way to evict since the “tenant” will be within their “rights” to grow. Never mind the damage ( changes to plumbing and electrical even “IF” it’s up to code.)
    One another note,, what constitutes ” reasonable compensation”? ( as written)
    (B) Pursuant to this Ordinance, Collectives and Cooperatives that receive compensation for actual
    expenses incurred in carrying out activities that are in compliance with these guidelines, including
    reasonable compensation incurred for services provided to the members or the organization, shall
    not be subject to prosecution or punishment either civilly or criminally, solely on that basis.
    I know a “MMJ” grower who grows for others, and is proud to say he rakes in 100,000 grand a year.( legally apparently) In my opinion that far exceeds “reasonable compensation”.

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  40. Walt Avatar

    As for the hill side grows, ( or any other use,) the County has a 30% grade provision even to build a house or structure. It’s an erosion control “law” if I remember right. As it applies here, It’s a little drastic. It may also have to do with “pretty”. The guys on the other side may feel it’s an eyesore.
    Kind of like the “scenic ridge line” excuse over in the LWW aria.
    That’s the county for ya’..

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  41. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    “6. The current ordinance requires you the have a 8′ tall solid wood fence around your garden, and if you are on 5 acres, then you have a 10′ x 10′ space with a 8′ tall fence around it….”
    This seems at odds with another county ordinance that limits solid fences at 6 feet. Perhaps the 6 foot limit applies to perimeter fences only. Solid perimeter fences facing county (I don’t know about private) roads are limited to 4 feet in height. If one reason for solid fences is privacy, a four foot fence isn’t going to do much in that regard. For that matter, a six foot fence on a hillside doesn’t do much screening from prying eyes uphill either and neither would an 8 foot fence in that situation. So what is the point other than creating another hoop to jump through?

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  42. George Rebane Avatar

    GerryF 940am – landlords should “should actually ENFORCE (their) own rules”. In this litigious age where property rights have already been pared back, what are the mechanisms by which landlords can ‘enforce’ their renters to do anything? Most certainly the landlord cannot physically intervene. Then filing a complaint with some county or city agency will (may?) start a process that will be lengthy, costly, and have little if any chance of ultimately making the landlord whole from his renter’s infractions.
    The only relief remaining for the landlord is to carefully vet his candidate renters, and then discriminate on the basis of how he judges his risk to be minimized. But then new laws and ordinances have been fashioned exactly prevent the landlord from such risk lowering discriminations.
    How does this reality tie with any ordinance on any issue that relies on the ability of the landlord to constructively enforce anything once the renter moves in an makes the rental his home and castle?

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  43. Brad Avatar
    Brad

    Why are we stuck on the “landlord” issue? The current ordinance (per the spreadsheet) reads,
    “cultivator must have written & notarized
    permission from landlord to grow MJ”
    What difference will a notarized document make? The rental agreements I use state at the outset that no drug manufacturing can take place. The tenant signs this.
    It does not matter if it is illegal, or legal. If a renter wants to do something like sneak a cat, or dog in, or fire up a meth lab, they will do it.

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  44. George Rebane Avatar

    GerryF 916am – Thanks for the extensive layout of ‘facts’. Perhaps other readers have more time to vet them, but I did notice that your list starts out with a pretty bad error about the Union’s publishing of school bus stops. Please check the 7aug14 issue in which you will find the school bus stops published.

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  45. Brad Avatar
    Brad

    Question: Does Measure S replace the current ordinance, or just modify sections of the current ordinance and let stand the parts that Measure S is silent on?

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  46. Gerry Fedor Avatar
    Gerry Fedor

    George & Joe, thanks for the constructive question / comments….
    George, the easiest manner is for the landlord to actually write this condition into their rental agreement / lease, and then go thru the appropriate legal process to stop this from happening (if it is????).
    Joe, you’re right as there have been abatement’s because of this exact problem, but the county refuses to address this issue. This should be addressed thru the abatement hearing and process, but there is no clause for repealing the abatement process.
    The most concerning thing to me is that the BOS said they knew there were lots of problems with the Urgency Ordinance that they passed, and they have had 3 years and numerous chances to revise this ordinance, but refused to do so……
    Why is that? Our Sheriff say’s “because it works”.
    I’m wondering for whom he’s speaking about, other than his department?
    This ordinance has cost the county several million dollars to take us down this road, and has it worked?
    I’d tend to say absolutely no!

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  47. Walt Avatar

    Brad….
    04 September 2014 at 09:17 AM … I gave you the proposed change, right from “S”. Go read it….Never mind…
    D)(REMOVES) the requirement that tenants obtain written,
    notarized consent to cultivate medical marijuana from the legal parcel owner;
    “legal parcel owner” is NOT the renter.
    Anymore questions?

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  48. Gerry Fedor Avatar
    Gerry Fedor

    Walt, the California State court has already determined the reasonable compensation factor, as you can be paid for your time and materials.
    Anyone who makes a $100,000 is plain and simple a criminal according to California law.
    The other thing is that you’re wrong as the max slope factor you can build upon, as it is a 23% gradient.
    Thanks and have you had a chance to look at the video and Google Earth site on Annie Drive (15900 annie drive GV)?

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  49. Gerry Fedor Avatar
    Gerry Fedor

    My points are that many of us consider ourselves to be Patriots and that we should uphold the Constitution, yet we are willing to let someone else’s rights get trampled just because we don’t want to do our work, or we believe in Nancy Reagan’s “just say no” crapola…..
    Benjamin Franklin said “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety….”

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  50. Gerry Fedor Avatar
    Gerry Fedor

    Walt, according to several lawyers who looked at that section of the ordinance said that this section is in direct contradiction to the self incrimination clause of the Constitution, and that was why it was removed, as it’s unlawful as written in the current ordinance…..

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