Rebane's Ruminations
September 2014
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[This November Nevada County voters will decide whether to adopt a new and revised marijuana ordinance or keep the existing one.  The marijuana cultivation issue continues to generate more heat than light.  Here is one comparative analysis that was published in the September edition of The Nugget, the monthly newsletter of Nevada County Republican Women Federated.  Its author Jo Ann Rebane is 2nd VP and Legislative Chair of the NCRWF.  (She also happens to be my wife.)

The piece includes a downloadable pdf of a spreadsheet that compares by attribute the current ordinance with the ballot’s Measure S.  I have also included that spreadsheet below the text.  Readers may wish to consider and share a third column that contains their druthers for a new ordinance. gjr]

Jo Ann Rebane

For a moment, set aside these facts: that Marijuana is listed by the Federal Controlled Substances Act as a Schedule 1 Drug which has a high potential for abuse; that, according to Dr. Mitchell S. Rosenthal founder of Phoenix House, substance abuse treatment and prevention center, “…pot damages the heart and lungs, increases the incidence of anxiety, depression and schizophrenia…”; that marijuana does lasting damage to the brains of adolescents and it impairs learning, memory and judgment according to Dr. Nora Volkow’s  research at  Northwestern University; that Colorado and Washington states have legalized recreational use of marijuana; that California voters in 1996 approved Prop 215 allowing marijuana cultivation for medical purposes only; and that cities and counties may adopt and enforce ordinances consistent with the state’s health and safety code. 

What we do need to focus on right here in Nevada County is Measure S on the November ballot.  According to Nevada County Supervisor Richard Anderson, proponents of Measure S want voters to replace a liberal ordinance with a more liberal ordinance.  The current medical marijuana cultivation ordinance, adopted in May 2012 specifies where, how, and how much medical marijuana may be cultivated in unincorporated residential and agricultural areas of the county. The current ordinance has enforcement, appeal and abatement provisions, and provides the community a means to alleviate nuisance marijuana “grows” and encourages those who legitimately grow it for their personal medical use to be good neighbors.  


Measure S reached our ballot as an initiative – written for and circulated by the Nevada County branch of Americans for Safe Access, possibly as a test case for a statewide push at a later date.  The Nevada County Board of Supervisors, the Coalition for a Drug Free Nevada County and the Nevada County Republican Party each oppose Measure S.  They find that, if approved, every aspect of the current medical marijuana cultivation ordinance would be loosened, favoring growers and disadvantaging the general welfare of the community.  Measure S weakens and removes current code provisions.  Measure S increases the allowed square footage of indoor “grows” by 500% in the extreme.  Measure S replaces the square footage limits for outdoor “grows” with specific immature and mature marijuana plant numbers and allows indoor and outdoor cultivation on the same parcel.  Measure S also allows renters to cultivate medical marijuana without obtaining their landlord’s written permission to use his property in that way and to make changes to his electrical and plumbing systems without his knowledge.  Measure S allows cultivation of medical marijuana without limitation in and on parcels zoned for commercial, business park, office professional, airport, and industrial.

Finally, Measure S reduces the set-back buffer distance from schools, churches, parks, daycare centers and youth facilities by 40% and removes set-back requirements from outdoor living areas and school bus stops.  Sheriff Keith Royal notes that Measure S eliminates enforcement, appeal,  and  abatement provisions which will leave the county no means to respond to citizen complaints regarding nuisance marijuana “grows”.  When does a garden become a commercial truck farm?  

I have made a detailed comparison of the current medical marijuana cultivation ordinance and Measure S.  It is available on our website as a printable pdf  www.nevadacountyrwf.org .

[4sep14 update] The Union ran a page-one story on Measure S and this piece today.  Here is the link to the same piece in its e-edition.

[6sep14 update] It occurred to me that no one has discussed how subsequent action may take place on an ordinance instituted through a ballot measure.  While a BoS initiated ordinance may be repealed or modified by a vote of the BoS, California code requires that ordinances instituted through ballot measures must come to a vote of the people again if they are to be amended or repealed.  The spreadsheet below has been updated to include this subject/category.]

[The spreadsheet is also available here Download Marijuana Meas S study 17aug14 (v6sep14) .  The current code – Ordinance 2349 – is available here (10MB download); and a copy of Measure S is available here.]

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Posted in ,

257 responses to “Medical Marijuana Cultivation Initiative – Nevada County Ballot Measure S (updated 6sep14)”

  1. Walt Avatar

    Not even close in comparison Brad.

    Like

  2. Paul Emery Avatar

    Walt
    Do you have any problem with the free market determining just compensation for labor?
    Also many growers legitimately grow for dispensaries as well as individuals , allowable under State law. They become members and providers of the collective that sponsors the dispensary. Remember, this is legal under State law. Nevada County growers are not given enough square footage to participate. These are examples of legally permitted commerce that brings in millions of $ to legitimate growers in our county. We are not talking about 2000 plant cartels but small operations that have the skill and craft to grow 20-40 plants distributed and compensated for legally under California State Law.
    Our heavy handed BOS went for the hammer on this
    rather than crafting an Ordinance that supports cultivation for what it is-a legitimate cottage industry under California State law that provides income for hundreds of families adding millions to Nevada Counties economy.

    Like

  3. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    I would be open to engaging in such a process with you -2:09

    Like

  4. Michael R. Kesti Avatar
    Michael R. Kesti

    Paul, I agree with your sentiment concerning current and future’s sheriffs wearing the same tool belt. In the same way, the federal laws concerning marijuana must be revoked before anything meaningful can happen at the state level because, while this administration is willing to look the other way concerning marijuana, future administrations may not.

    Like

  5. Paul Emery Avatar

    Michael
    Actually reform on this matter is largely being led by Conservatives. Tom McClintock is co-sponsor of HR 5326 which would de fund the DEA from enforcing Federal law in states that have Medical Marijuana laws. He was a guest on KVMR where he strongly supported that view. It was on a program hosted by Patricia Smith who is heading up the “yes on S” campaign.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/30/dea-medical-marijuana-house-vote_n_5414679.html

    Like

  6. George Rebane Avatar

    Re MichaelK’s 313pm – Ditto on the concern about future sheriffs (and even BoSs) as I expressed in several comments on police militarization (most recent here)- http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2014/08/silence-of-the-lambs.html?cid=6a00e54f86f2ad883301b8d060fa8e970c#comment-6a00e54f86f2ad883301b8d060fa8e970c
    PaulE 303pm – Great! Let me start a new post on that and throw my hat into the ring with a few specifics. That should be fun and educational.

    Like

  7. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Mr. Paul. Seems like we can’t gave it both ways. The State law passed by the voters kicked the ball down to the Counties to enforce/supervise it. Not unusual as the Feds pass laws that the States have to enforce/monitor every year. Then states pass laws that counties are stuck with doing the dirty work. Now, which department is best suited to do the dirty work? Send little 98 pound clerks unarmed out beyond the highways and byways to do follow up on aerial surveillance?
    So, we want the State law as written, but don’t like the county enforcement or interpretation. Why not? Local control and all that jazz after local hearings and some fine tuning. And all this chatter diverts use farther and farther away from Granny’s cancer medicine, which was the spirit and purpose and sole selling point of Prop 215 or whatever number the medicinal only legal grass was voted on.

    Like

  8. Walt Avatar

    It called oversight Paul, a drug is a drug. This was never meant to be a max profit enterprise. Somehow that got shoved to the side.
    There were a few programs on the boob tube showing the inner workings of the MJ operations. ” Marijuana wars” was just one. BIG mistake. Those “documentaries”
    showed just how corrupt the game is. Tens of thousands of dollars is far from “just compensation”.
    It’s not that expensive or time consuming to grow weeds. I know. Been there done that. I have grown a plant or two in my time. The one thing I have never done is sell ANY of it. That was a line I just wasn’t going to cross.
    The law was NEVER intended to be “for profit”. But that’s exactly what has happened.
    Now you can answer the rest of those questions.
    In my opinion the illegitimate growers outnumber the legit. I have seen plenty in my travels around this county. I know of one right now that must be growing over 1000 plants not far from here. They have been doing so for years.
    The legit growers need to start policing their own, and deal with the rifraf.
    We took our dog to the park this morning. And right by the kids playground a couple were toking away as their kids played feet away. They tried to hide the pipe as we came by.( too damned late ) Think THEY had a script? ( for a nose piercing infection I’m sure.) And No… I didn’t drop a dime on them as I should have. ( right in front of the kids?? REALLY???)

    Like

  9. Paul Emery Avatar

    Walt
    A well crafted ordinance would easily separate the legit growers from the others. The others would be subject to state law and the consequences of the hammer of law. The legits would be able to supply legitimate patients and dispensaries with what they need and be compensated for it. The current ordinance makes virtually everyone aviolator therefore encouraging illegitimate growers because what the hell,they are all violators anyway.
    Mendicino passed an ordinance a few years ago that looked pretty good and ws embraced by the whole community. The feds came in ant threatened the Supes with criminal charges and they had to suspend it. Under McClntocks sponsorship if passed they would not be able to do that.
    Government is a craft and the NC BOS and Sheriff can do a whole lot better.
    Most of the operations on Marijuana Wars were illegal under State law therefore not part of an enlightened discussion on grows legitimate under State Law

    Like

  10. Walt Avatar

    Consider me a reformed “smoker”. ( yaa, we are really the worst)
    I still have my expired scripts in my wallet. A “legit” condition? Yup,, an “F”ed up back. Now get this. Since I stopped that “medication” my back doesn’t hurt as bad, and my refrigerator reload bill has gone down.
    Maybe now I can stop trying to find work from the bottom feeders of the contractor world, ( those that don’t drug test) and get back to meaningful employment. In my line of work, a Dr,’s recommendation doesn’t give you a pass.
    Especially in mining.

    Like

  11. Walt Avatar

    “A well crafted ordinance would easily separate the legit growers from the others” Well,, there has been PLENTY of time. How come it hasn’t been done?
    Then again, good luck enforcing that, since you don’t like compliance inspections as stated above. You can’t have it both ways.
    If the legit growers had done that by now, there may have been some credibility.
    I knew if I gave you enough (hemp) rope, you would hang yourself.

    Like

  12. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Aha! Walt you stole my thunder. Granny’s medicine has absolutely nothing to do with millions of dollars floating around the local economy nor the employment of hundreds of families or cottage industries. Those by- products should not even be considered when thinking of all the sick dying patients we have here in the County.
    Let’s drop the charade, shall we? Growing dope is a big big source cash in Nevada County and had been since the Guide to Gorilla Growing came out in the late 60’s, duh. All the long term growers here have been praying for the day when they could come out of the shadows and finally be declared legit with one stroke of the Governor’s pen. All the old hippies and young folks with kids longed for the day where they could be legal and not hide plants growing in the basement under little Johnnie’s room and feel that uneasy frightening twinge on the back of their necks and sudden heart rate increase each time a police car turned down the street for an unrelated matter. Growers want to be called legit, plain and simple. Same with potheads who smoke their wacky tobaccy.
    But, the devil is in the details. Patients who need to make marijuana skin lotion or marijuana bath soap can still do it, but the illegal growers can not continue to grow as they have been accustomed to and become in compliance with the setbacks. Neither does the county ordinance allow them to continue in the lifestyle of a good payday they have enjoyed for years. Heck,dreams of finding a legal visible means of support were dashed. Brings a tear to my eye.
    The darn truth is most of the new dispensaries do not buy from our local yokels anymore, with human nature being what it is. They figured out they can get 99 plants scripts, get a business partner with another script, grow in huge greenhouses out the back door and sell their product legally over the counter of the “dispensary” out the front door. That is how to become legit. Big business with a big business bent. But not in this county. Prices are dropping and locals are sending their harvest product out of state, any state to off it. There are business men going around grows in the foothills buying up pot for $850 a pound from folks who can’t find buyers. Dog eat dog world. I don’t smoke the stuff nor grow it or sell it, but I know what is happening where the rubber meets the road.
    And absolutely nothing above has one friggin thing to do with helping the chronically ill deal with pain.

    Like

  13. Paul Emery Avatar

    Walt
    There is no incentive for legit growers to volunteer their information because they are all virtually out of compliance because of the sq foot requirements of the current ordinance that does not allow them to grow enough to meet their legitimate, legal demands.
    In Mendicino legit growers did just that and paid a fee for the right to grow legitimately like any business. It was embraced by the growers but ended when the Feds stepped in.
    “Covelo, California, Jul 7, 2010: The DEA flouted Mendocino County’s newly enacted medical marijuana cultivation ordinance by raiding the first collective that had applied to the sheriff’s cultivation permit program.
    A multi-agency federal task force descended on the property of Joy Greenfield, 68, the first Mendo patient to pay the $1050 application fee under the ordinance, which allows collectives to grow up to 99 plants provided they comply with certain regulations.”
    Thisw could change under McClintocks leadership,
    http://theava.com/archives/7475

    Like

  14. Walt Avatar

    Bill,, “the growers” really don’t want it legalized. The bottom would fall out of the price. Especially when anyone and their brother could grow their own, be it in the back yard or on the back deck.
    In my lifetime, I probably have smoked your weight, plus mine, plus El Gordo’s.
    I’m no choir boy, so I have a pretty good idea of the subject of weed.
    Dose it have some benefits? for some yes. But don’t “Colorado” Nevada Co.
    NOOO!!,, On S.. Put that on a bumper sticker. Just give me a dime for every one
    sold. ( copyright ?)

    Like

  15. Brad Avatar
    Brad

    It will be interesting to see which way the voters will go in states with legalization legislation on the ballots this fall.
    I believe Oregon has not bothered with the “co-operative” and “non-profit” restrictions with regard to their dispensaries.
    As per usual, California has way over-regulated the marijuana industry.
    It may still be illegal according to the Feds, but the House does not want them harassing state governments about it.
    http://blog.norml.org/2014/05/30/us-house-votes-to-prohibit-doj-from-interfering-with-state-medical-marijuana-or-industrial-hemp-programs/

    Like

  16. Walt Avatar

    Paul. “S” isn’t going give one more ounce of “legitimacy”.
    I know full well legit growers DO like to stay within the law.
    I DO know that some have requested “compliance checks” and got them without
    getting harassed later on. So quit trying to blow smoke up our collective skirts.
    ( that one’s for Bill)

    Like

  17. Walt Avatar

    Can the spellin’ police please pay Paul a visit? I recall the raid on me
    not long ago.

    Like

  18. Barry Pruett Avatar
    Barry Pruett

    Paul: Do you have link to the Mendicino ordinance? That would an interesting read.

    Like

  19. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Hey, it was the Big Boys in the green triangle of Humbolt, Mendiciino, and another 2 bit county that first sounded the alarm with opposition to legalized Mary Jane in Ca. They said it would kill their business and wreck their local economies. Growers here as well bitch about the same thing and more than one are getting out. When the price of trimmed bud goes from $3300.00 to 1,500 clams/lbs in just a few short years, what does that tell ya. Oh, cry me a river.
    Heck, if you are going to grow, then just grow it. Forget getting silly medical cards and shove compliance and go for it if that is what you are inclined to do.
    Paul is right. I looked up the existing ordinance just this morning. My zoning is A, not A-R, not R. 10-20 acres on this hunk of dirt. 300 foot setback from closest neighbor’s building. Allowed 600 square feet to grow pot if I choose, only 400 sq. feet if the property is 9.9 acres. Hmm. 20’x30′ for 10 plus acres in my zoning? 20’x20′ for 9.9 acres and a lot less if the zoning was A-R or R. 36 Sq feet is enough to grow 6 small trees, but why bother? Heck, if I had it in my mind to grow some medicine for mom or pops, I would have to throw Momma from the train. For me it is a non issue and Moi hasn’t drawn a big long inhale from the hukka in 25 years, give or toke (pun intended).
    Like I said, screw it and go for the gusto. No need for a silly script or worrying about silly square footage. The growers never had a script in the past and they were real men and women, unlike these pansy organic Polly Annas we have today. Heck, there are guys with dozers right now dredging and running heavy equipment in riverbeds getting gold behind locked gates out in the boondocks as I write this. They said screw it and I
    I can’t blame them, but it is soooo fun to judge!
    Mr. Walt, don’t Bogart that joint my friend, pass it over to Paul.
    Time for Dr. Rebane to write another post about the tobacco enema.

    Like

  20. Walt Avatar

    “don’t Bogart that joint my friend, pass it over to Paul”
    Your right. I think he’s in desperate need after this little discussion.
    Joints are a waste of weed. Too much goes into thin air, and air quality is effected. A good pipe is the only way to conserve the good stuff.

    Like

  21. Walt Avatar

    “Heck, there are guys with dozers right now dredging and running heavy equipment in riverbeds getting gold behind locked gates out in the boondocks as I write this” WHERE??? Maybe they can use some help!

    Like

  22. Walt Avatar

    Looks like it’s time to nail the lid of this stash box of a thread shut Doc..
    It’s pretty much “roached” out. ( some toker terminology)
    On to bigger and better things.
    Like the 20 or so missing passenger jets in Libya. ( and just before the 11TH no less.)

    Like

  23. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Agreed. This topic always leaves me feeling dry and gives me a bad case of cottonmouth. Besides, we have this income inequality thang spreading like a bad rash across the globe and it’s all the employers fault. Little ones are going to bed hungry tonight in the rat infested slums of Calcutta and some anal cavities with chainsaws and elephants are ripping up the rain forests. Not to mention the cute little polar bear cubs unable to break through the hardened Arctic Ice and get themselves an adorable little seal pup to munch on.
    At least a couple of mountain lion cubs were rescued from under a burning log in Western Montana. Wonder if that new military Hellcat they got was involved? Always a silver lining. Silver lining? That term is still ok to use I believe. Haven’t heard much from the speech police emitting from them Gray Panthers lately. Probably sucking down a bottle of Geritol with a prune juice chaser right about now. Which reminds me….nightly night..

    Like

  24. Walt Avatar

    One or two more things for Paul to contemplate where landlords are concerned.
    Asset forfeiture. When the man come knock’n because the grow is WAY out of compliance, they usually seize the real estate. The land owner has no recourse.
    Ignorance is no excuse under the law.
    Now let me help you understand something. “Just compensation” would be a couple of hundred bucks per. Not a couple of hundred thousand.
    Next time remember the entirety of the law. Not just the parts you like.
    The compassionate use act was billed as ” non profit” Please look up the definition of that.
    You should know by now I do my best to deal in the facts of matters. That hasn’t been one of your strong suits. “Feelings” and what “should be” doesn’t cut it.
    Remember what “O” said when running for Prez the first time? He was going to leave states like Ca. alone that have MMJ laws on the books. He would instruct the DOJ to do just that. LIBS took the bait hook line and sinker. The sicked the dogs on Ca. Property seizers, asset forfeitures up and down the state. They didn’t even bother with incarceration. They had what they wanted. The money and property.
    Just a little reminder of why “S” stands for “sucks”. ( for landlords) They have the most to lose.
    OK Doc.,,, Drive home the last nail.

    Like

  25. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Barry
    I’ll see if I can find one.
    Walt, Bill
    The shear magnitude and passion of your expostulations seems to mean you prefer the criminalization of MJ. Find How much are you willing to spend to enforce your mandate?

    Like

  26. Brad Avatar
    Brad

    Not sure about the argument that prices will go down if the weed is legalized.
    There is (or was) a price list from a Colorado weed shop on the window of an attorney’s office directly across from the NC courthouse. The Colorado prices are higher than they are here (so I am told:).
    Laissez faire, US out of my woodlot and exhaust pipe, states rights believers should be in full support of legalization.

    Like

  27. Walt Avatar

    Paul. I think I have already paid the price (personally) for the existing “legalization”. It appears it you that is “willing” to drive up “the costs.” ( No compliance enforcement what so ever)
    There is PLENTY of weed for anyone who wants it. A walk down Main St. and you can sniff it out. Pick any local park. The blue haze will guide the way.
    Full blown legalization isn’t the answer. Colorado is finding that out.
    Even laws for “free weed” to the homeless.( and top shelf no less) have popped up.
    I believe you more pro black market economy than anything else.

    Like

  28. George Rebane Avatar

    Walt 835pm – you may be right, but it is really you the commenters who pound in the last nail. I will raise the topic again closer to election time after more water has passed under the bridge. In the interval I invite all readers to join PaulE and me in the task of defining a workable utility or objective function for evaluating and/or crafting a broadly acceptable MJ ordinance. (Ref my 209pm and PaulE’s 303pm.)

    Like

  29. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Good morning Paul. First, I would like to take this time to thank Joann Rebane for her work on this issue which brings clarity.
    I feel Prop 215 is not the vehicle to legalize marijuana nor the cultivation of marijuana for recreation use. Neither are these 2 bit county ordinances. As Mr. Paul pointed out, illegal grows will remain illegal grows. Illegal grows are in it solely for the money, and with a wink and a nod, give lip service to compassion. Too many winks and nods going on. I oppose abuse of Prop 215.
    Three things pop out immediately about Measure S I find troubling.
    1). Growing in business parks. A cultivator can rent a big warehouse and alter the lighting and pack it full far from residences, traffic, and prying eyes. exactly what the Big Boys in Colorado are doing. One big non-greenhouse concrete building free from aerial survilance with 4-5 digit monthly power bills. Yep, it’s for compassionate cultivation. Wink wink.
    2). This allowance for TENNANTS (including single family homes) to alter the plumbing and electrical wiring without notifing the landlord is plumb Unconstitutional and will never pass the Constitutional test. Our Constitution says that government cannot interfere with a contact between two private parties. They cannot stick their snout into the contract. Get out of there, knucklehead, it says clearly.
    I know this for a fact. Assuming the prohibitions are spelled out in the landlord-tennant agreement, no little two bit BOS can alter that or even look at the agreement.
    Had a landlord friend of mine that had a tenant up for renewal of a use permit. The BOS wanted to see the lease agreement. My friend went up there and told them no way, Jose, you can’t see it and go pound sand. It is none of your beeswax and kiss my ass. The BOS or any small town Big Bro can not interfere with a private contract between two parties.
    ALTERING ELECTRICAL ELECTRICAL WIRING WITHOUT NOTIFING THE LANDLORD?????!!! We are taking some bucks here. This ain’t painting the kitchen. Hope they use a license electrical contractor with proper permits and inspections. A lot of bucks for a little teenie indoor garden. Another wink and a nod.
    3). Measure S specifies the rights of the compassionate cultivator supersedes the rights of adjoining residences and neighbors. Hmmm, not very neighborly. Think I will start working on chainsaws every night around 3am cause my rights suspercede the neighbors’ rights. It’s ALL about me now isn’t it. Think there are laws on the books saying I can’t poison my own darn well if I wanted to. My rights are being violated!!! Another wink and a nod.

    Like

  30. Walt Avatar

    Paul still has yet to address in any shape or form,the non profit provisions of the existing law.Why not?

    Like

  31. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    The institutions are non profit. That doesnt mean the product they distribute to members is free.

    Like

  32. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Here’s more info about reimbursement fo providers.
    Under state law, the California Compassionate Use Act of 1996 (Prop. 215) patients and their “primary caregivers” are protected from criminal prosecution under state law for personal possession and cultivation of marijuana, but NOT for distribution or sale to others. State law was expanded in 2004 by a new law, Senate Bill 420 (Health & Safety Code 11362.7-8). Among other things, SB 420 authorized patient “cooperatives” or “collectives” to grow, distribute and/or sell medical marijuana on a non-profit basis to their members. It also allows duly designated primary caregivers who consistently attend to patients’ needs to charge for their labor and services in providing marijuana.
    http://www.canorml.org/prop/collectivetips.html

    Like

  33. RL Crabb Avatar

    After Governor Jerry made his now-famous statement that a stoned out populace might not be in California’s best interests, Local Facebook Freaks went ballistic. “I guess he don’t remember the stuff he did when he lived up on the Ridge” was the most frequent comment, disproving the notion that mary-j messes with your memory. Then again, maybe they were hallucinating.
    And warehouse marijuana can’t hold a candle to natural outdoor homegrown. Uh, at least that’s what they tell me. I never inhaled.

    Like

  34. Walt Avatar

    Institutions??? Just WHO or what is that?Step back and away from the bong. No one is supposed to make a profit.From the grower on down.What is going on now FAR exceeds your”just compensation”.

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  35. Walt Avatar

    This isn’t SBC we are talking about….Paul…

    Like

  36. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Mr. Crabb, interesting debate going on in the growing world. Kinda like real organic greenies vs the unnatural greenies. An indoor garden can produce 24/7 365 days a year so it has a distinct advantage. Plus, a knowledgable indoor grower can produce a more potent strain under lights than an outdoor grower can with experience and adjustments. Natural pests are not an issue. Indoor growers are called unnatural organic greenies in this scenario.
    the outdoor grower boasts than he/she uses God’s sunshine, no fossil fuel carbon producing electricity nor contributes to Global Warming. The real organic greenies in this scenario.
    So, it’s come down to indoor vs outdoor and boasting rights. Read that even some state (WA or CO or somewhere) is trying to pass a bill that gives preference to the outdoor natural organic real greenies to combat the advantages of the unnatural organic unreal greenies growing indoors at dispensaries. Locally grown, but is it indoors or outdoors? Earth friendly or Earth unfriendly? I report, you decide.
    Next time I hear some plant worshiper quote the Bible and say God said all plants are good and for the benefit for mankind, I will tell them to go smoke some poison oak or some oleander bush. Them greenies are becoming militant. They need to puff on a big fat hooter and veg out on some organic munchies, IMHO.

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  37. Brad Avatar
    Brad

    George 855AM,
    If you look at the stated purpose of “S”,
    “Replace current code w new language; halt
    diversion of medical MJ to illicit drug market;
    ensure qualified patients can grow or obtain MJ
    for medical purposes; set guidelines for
    cultivation, distribution, transportation, storage
    & use of MJ”
    I find that a reasonable purpose.
    But, if you look at the “implied” purpose, you are left wondering whose thoughts/biases/fears you are being treated to.
    For example, who said the current ordinance was enacted to “save us from a fate worse than Mendocino”? Did our sheriff or supervisors say that?
    Why use words/phrases such as “weaken” regs? The ordinance was enacted somewhat hurriedly, and is not set it in stone. If opponents can prove that, for example, reducing the setback from bus stops from 1000 to 600 feet endangers somebody, or allowing a few more plants to be grown on a given size parcel is that big a deal, then I would say let’s look at it. Is the bus stop setback in place to keep our teenagers waiting at the bus stop honest? Teenagers will find trouble to get into wherever they roam.
    Measure S seems to be making a few tweaks to the current ordinance. More tweaks may follow.

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  38. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Why no fences? I heard a rumor (now this is just an unfounded rumor) that there are creatures in these parts called deer that enjoy munching on the Marihuana plant as well as the little woman’s roses. Just a rumor, mind you.
    If one was so inclined to grow medicine in these parts, I would think that having deer fencing would be wise, if those creatures known as deer actually exist in this neck of the woods.
    Perhaps the patient cannot afford to build a fence or is just too stoned to get off their sickly arses and slap some old boards laying about together. Have you seen the price of nails lately? Think wisdom would call for not giving them rumored deer unfettered access to the precious medicine. Maybe it’s rutting season for the patients and that would explain the no fences clause. Priorities and all….

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  39. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Want was I thinking?? I forget one does not need a fence with gallons of coyote urine available at the local nursery. Dump a few 55 gallons drums of coyote urine around the perimeter of one’s abode and flower patch and the rumored deer ( if they actually even exist)…..and the rumored deer would be the last of your problems.
    As Kermit the Frog once lamented, “it’s not easy being green.”

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  40. Paul Emery Avatar

    Walt
    I’ve done the best I can to show you how under current law Marijuana cultivation is a legitimate cottage industry. Any more questions?

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  41. Walt Avatar

    There is a grower I know of who’s “facility” is a detached 2 car garage.
    His ” just compensation” for that little “enterprise” is 100,000 grand a year.
    Maybe Paul can tell us how that fits with the law about “non profit”.
    Think his power bill is that “high”? His NID bill?
    I’m pretty sure that’s tax free income. ” Non profit status….” Right Paul?
    If us miners have to play by the rules to make an honest living,( like any other business) the same should apply to growers.

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  42. Paul Emery Avatar

    It’s the dispensaries that are non profits, not the producers. That is established California law.

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  43. Walt Avatar

    A “legitimate” industry as you claim has to follow regulations. That means inspections, compliance, and accountability. What makes your weed “industry” any different than any other drug manufacturer/supplier?
    That you just won’t address in any detail. And falling back on keeping off the FEDS radar isn’t going to cut it. If your taking money, books need to be kept just like anyone else.
    But you don’t want ANY of that…. I bet most MMJ “growers” don’t claim that income at tax time. ( I wonder why?)

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  44. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Ok, one last crack at this before heading out. You and those you associate with may live on some altruistic plane, but I can assure you that those who cultivated before the passage of Prop 215 to supplement their income and continue to do so to this day do not.
    I think you are naive. For the small grower 215 just gave them legal status to get high. For those whose lion’s share of income derives from growing AND selling the marihuana flower to the highest bidder, they don’t give a hoot about medicinal purposes, unless they can sell it to a dispensary.
    All you are proposing is removing/weakening the enforcement mechanism and doing it with gusto. Walt said it best. Your intentions may be honorable, but your actions promote the black market and promote its growth with little to no consequences.

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  45. Walt Avatar

    Well HEELLLL!!! Then sign me up! Give me a fist full of scripts to “fill”.
    I got just the spot, plenty of water. I probably still have a couple of real special seeds rolling around in an old stash box somewhere. ( That stuff would make you forget your way home, and even your own name.) I could use the free money.
    Like Great, Great, GREAT Grand Daddy said back in the revolutionary war.
    ” If you can’t beet’m,, join’m.” ( he was a red coat officer with Cornwallis)
    Who’s the local MJ attorney to keep Johnny law off my back? ( nevermind… I have a pretty good one already)
    Where in the law is the guarantee I won’t wind up a felon? I like my gun ownership rights. Or is that one thing I can count on losing? ( can’t have everything,,, right??)
    Just like I had to give up my MMJ card to work. The “law” didn’t protect me there. ( discrimination?)

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  46. Paul Emery Avatar

    I agree it’s pretty screwed up Walt but change is coming. Nevada County is missing out on a goldmine if they don’t get ahead of the trend and position themselves for the total legalization that is in the works. The Feds will have a tax process worked out in a year or so so legitimate growers can be on the books. Its snowballing right now Here are the some polls
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/165539/first-time-americans-favor-legalizing-marijuana.aspx
    And just for laughs Bill O’Reillys poll-89%
    http://theweek.com/speedreads/index/265651/speedreads-bill-oreilly-took-a-poll-on-legalizing-weed-youll-never-guess-what-happened-next

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  47. Walt Avatar

    Yup, then the whole damned state can look like Nevada City. Stoned deadbeats on welfare littering the streets. ( like Denver is today) OH what an improvement.
    The perfect utopia. People too stoned to earn their own keep. Those get those get top shelf weed for free. ( by law)
    http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/07/02/berkeley-plans-to-provide-free-weed-for-low-income-patients-marijuana-pot-collectives-dispensaries/
    The dumbing down of America… Wholesale…
    That’s the kind of “change” you will get Paul.
    Most “smokers” are/were not like me. NEVER at work, and ONLY at home after 4:20.
    Even those days are over.
    So when you get weed legalized,, is heroin next on the list? ( that’s medically prescribed as well) Then crack? Where does it stop?

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  48. Walt Avatar

    Get your petition gatherers together Paul, and end employer drug testing. How bout it? Get the LIB unions behind that. Sue the insurance companies for demanding higher premiums to employers that don’t. It isn’t fair.
    Want the people on assembly lines stoned on the job? How bout the guy digging next to a fiber optic line, or gas line?
    You need to look at the bigger picture.

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  49. Walt Avatar

    On drug testing,,, for Paul.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2014/08/29/pot-is-becoming-legal-in-more-places-but-we-should-drug-test-employees-anyway/
    Read the stats about productivity.
    Then there is that pesky issue of workplace safety. ( working with spinning saw blades while stoned isn’t a good idea. If the guy cuts his digits off who is liable? The stoner,, or the employer? Work comp Paul?)
    Full legalization sounds good at face value. But there is where it ends.

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  50. Paul Emery Avatar

    So you want to keep it illegal Walt. There are only two options. Criminalize it and pay for the enforcement-incarnation costs or go with the will of the people and legalize it. You’re move. Yes or no.

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