Rebane's Ruminations
September 2014
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[This November Nevada County voters will decide whether to adopt a new and revised marijuana ordinance or keep the existing one.  The marijuana cultivation issue continues to generate more heat than light.  Here is one comparative analysis that was published in the September edition of The Nugget, the monthly newsletter of Nevada County Republican Women Federated.  Its author Jo Ann Rebane is 2nd VP and Legislative Chair of the NCRWF.  (She also happens to be my wife.)

The piece includes a downloadable pdf of a spreadsheet that compares by attribute the current ordinance with the ballot’s Measure S.  I have also included that spreadsheet below the text.  Readers may wish to consider and share a third column that contains their druthers for a new ordinance. gjr]

Jo Ann Rebane

For a moment, set aside these facts: that Marijuana is listed by the Federal Controlled Substances Act as a Schedule 1 Drug which has a high potential for abuse; that, according to Dr. Mitchell S. Rosenthal founder of Phoenix House, substance abuse treatment and prevention center, “…pot damages the heart and lungs, increases the incidence of anxiety, depression and schizophrenia…”; that marijuana does lasting damage to the brains of adolescents and it impairs learning, memory and judgment according to Dr. Nora Volkow’s  research at  Northwestern University; that Colorado and Washington states have legalized recreational use of marijuana; that California voters in 1996 approved Prop 215 allowing marijuana cultivation for medical purposes only; and that cities and counties may adopt and enforce ordinances consistent with the state’s health and safety code. 

What we do need to focus on right here in Nevada County is Measure S on the November ballot.  According to Nevada County Supervisor Richard Anderson, proponents of Measure S want voters to replace a liberal ordinance with a more liberal ordinance.  The current medical marijuana cultivation ordinance, adopted in May 2012 specifies where, how, and how much medical marijuana may be cultivated in unincorporated residential and agricultural areas of the county. The current ordinance has enforcement, appeal and abatement provisions, and provides the community a means to alleviate nuisance marijuana “grows” and encourages those who legitimately grow it for their personal medical use to be good neighbors.  


Measure S reached our ballot as an initiative – written for and circulated by the Nevada County branch of Americans for Safe Access, possibly as a test case for a statewide push at a later date.  The Nevada County Board of Supervisors, the Coalition for a Drug Free Nevada County and the Nevada County Republican Party each oppose Measure S.  They find that, if approved, every aspect of the current medical marijuana cultivation ordinance would be loosened, favoring growers and disadvantaging the general welfare of the community.  Measure S weakens and removes current code provisions.  Measure S increases the allowed square footage of indoor “grows” by 500% in the extreme.  Measure S replaces the square footage limits for outdoor “grows” with specific immature and mature marijuana plant numbers and allows indoor and outdoor cultivation on the same parcel.  Measure S also allows renters to cultivate medical marijuana without obtaining their landlord’s written permission to use his property in that way and to make changes to his electrical and plumbing systems without his knowledge.  Measure S allows cultivation of medical marijuana without limitation in and on parcels zoned for commercial, business park, office professional, airport, and industrial.

Finally, Measure S reduces the set-back buffer distance from schools, churches, parks, daycare centers and youth facilities by 40% and removes set-back requirements from outdoor living areas and school bus stops.  Sheriff Keith Royal notes that Measure S eliminates enforcement, appeal,  and  abatement provisions which will leave the county no means to respond to citizen complaints regarding nuisance marijuana “grows”.  When does a garden become a commercial truck farm?  

I have made a detailed comparison of the current medical marijuana cultivation ordinance and Measure S.  It is available on our website as a printable pdf  www.nevadacountyrwf.org .

[4sep14 update] The Union ran a page-one story on Measure S and this piece today.  Here is the link to the same piece in its e-edition.

[6sep14 update] It occurred to me that no one has discussed how subsequent action may take place on an ordinance instituted through a ballot measure.  While a BoS initiated ordinance may be repealed or modified by a vote of the BoS, California code requires that ordinances instituted through ballot measures must come to a vote of the people again if they are to be amended or repealed.  The spreadsheet below has been updated to include this subject/category.]

[The spreadsheet is also available here Download Marijuana Meas S study 17aug14 (v6sep14) .  The current code – Ordinance 2349 – is available here (10MB download); and a copy of Measure S is available here.]

Meas_S_pg1

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Posted in ,

257 responses to “Medical Marijuana Cultivation Initiative – Nevada County Ballot Measure S (updated 6sep14)”

  1. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    George, given the legality under state law of the underlying activity, irrespective of anyone’s approval or disapproval… why is any of Measure S worse than the current ordinance unless one values being able to make growers jump over more hurdles in order to be legal?
    For example, if you can’t see it from the outside, why require the posting of one’s “script” on the outside of the grow area rather than inside? Building codes are still enforceable and landlords are still free to write leases that forbid the activity even if they no longer have to agree to travel to a notary to give their tenants a get out of jail free card.

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  2. Russ Steele Avatar

    California is facing serious long term drought. I did not see any menton of waters usage in the discussion of Measure S.
    According to researchers a single pot plant consumes 6 gallons of water per day. Measure S significantly increase the number of plants that can be grown both indoors and outdoors. Six plants consume 36 gallons per day, 1,080 gallons a month. 100 plants consume 600 gallons at day, 18,000 gallons a month.
    A single person uses about 90 gallons a day or 2700 gallons a month, and two person households about 150 gallons per day due to sharing. Or, 4,500 gallon per month. 100 plant consume the same amount of water as 4 two person families. Where as 600 plants consume about same amount as 24 two person families. Now multiply that by 100 pot truck farms of 600 plants in Nevada County and we have some serious water usage, that could affect up to 2400 families.
    With California facing a long term drought, water is going to be critical. Increasing grows by 500% of is going to consume more water, water that maybe needed by humans to survive in Nevada County if the forecast long term drought becomes a reality. Increasing a huge number of water hungry plants in Nevada County does not seem to be a good drought survival strategy.

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  3. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Russ, what is the consumption of water for rice crops in Cal, per pound that makes it to market?
    Citrus? Avocado? Cotton? Strawberries?
    Orchids?’
    I use very little water myself… I suspect I could be growing enough to supply the cancer ward at UC Davis and not crack the per household yearly water use in parts of Sacramento County.
    Besides, you’re back to wanting to make a legal operation illegal by different means. Personally, despite thinking at some grower’s households (and yes, I have one or two in mind) air should be illegal if they’re the ones doing the breathing, it should be the crap they’ve done and will again do in the future should be the reason they’re behind bars, not the pot growing for their own use and that of everyone they’ve cajoled into cooperating.

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  4. George Rebane Avatar

    Gregory 107pm – I think retaining more control over the growers is the entire argument for opposing Measure S since that seeks to weaken the county’s control under the current ordinance. That is also apparent by the many areas in/about which Measure S is totally silent, thereby leaving these areas open for diverse individual interpretations and implementations.

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  5. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    George, the entire body of civil and criminal law remains intact… so be specific. Other than wanting to be a thorn in the side of growers following the law… why not S?
    Where the law is silent, existing law (civil AND criminal) remains. What specific problem(s) are you concerned about?

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  6. George Rebane Avatar

    Gregory 246pm – The existing ordinance seems to be working, and S has a number of loosenings and omissions when compared to 2349. The supply of marijuana for ‘medicinal’ and other purposes is more than ample. I think its up to the opponents of 2349 to make the case for S – what problems of Nevada County is it supposed to fix without creating other worse problems – rather than those satisfied with the established order having to critique every one of a countable infinity of provisions introduced by every new proposal. So, after you Mr Goodknight.
    BTW, PaulE and I had lunch the other day, and S came up as a topic. While Paul does want to change 2349, he does believe that there are some better coverage and provisions that S could provide. I hope he details some of those entries in a new third column. He did express some affinity with Yuba County’s ordinance, with which I am not familiar other than his statement that it is pretty laissez faire about growing marijuana.

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  7. Russ Steele Avatar

    Gregory,
    Cotten production is in decline in CA due to the fact it requires a lot of water. Rice fields are fallow due to the lack of water and rice farmers are switching to nut trees and drip irrigation due to the lack of water. No idea about Strawberries and Orchids. We are not talking about 500% increase is Strawberries and Orchid production.

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  8. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    I still don’t hear any specific objections besides it’s for maryjewana and the writer’s agin it.
    While I know I won’t be voting no, I’ve not yet decided whether to abstain or vote yes; based on what I’ve read here, I’m leaning more towards yes. Give me something concrete, guys.
    I am touched that Russ is so concerned with the water usage by pot cultivation, but I suspect there is no other usage that returns so much value on the investment, which means we should let the pot growers buy or pump all the water they need as the best and highest (far out!) use of the water.

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  9. Michael R. Kesti Avatar
    Michael R. Kesti

    The parallels between the criminalization of marijuana and the prohibition of alcohol are amazing. Prior to prohibition there were some who abused alcohol, many more who imbibed responsibly, and those who sought to control others’ lives, often “for their own good.” Prohibition provided those willing to break the law with a relatively easy to produce and distribute product that could be sold at immense profit while making criminals of those who continued to drink but were otherwise law abiding. These resulted in overfilled prisons and gangsters who needed to protect their territories while sometimes willing to trespass on others’, often leading to violent bloodshed and deaths. The repeal of prohibition immediately put the gangsters out of business and the status quo ante was restored.
    All that remains to complete the parallels is to legalize and regulate marijuana in exactly the way we do alcohol. Nothing else makes sense.

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  10. George Rebane Avatar

    MichaelK 449pm – Agreed. In your opinion how closely have we achieved your ideals of regulating and legalizing marijuana with 2349 in Nevada County?

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  11. Russ Steele Avatar

    Gregory,
    Make it legal and regulate it like booze and then let the market determine the best use.

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  12. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George
    Are you aware that the current Ordinance allows the police to enter your property for practically any reason. It is not a “criminal” process therefore allowing a much easier process to searching your property. A neighbors alleged complaint is enough and it doesn’t have to be documented.
    A standard search warrant needs assurances that a crime is being committed of that there is reason to believe evidence of a crime is on the premises. Since cultivation of MJ is legal under state law this system gets its authority from essentially building codes and I know how much you like those. I can be more specific if you like. I’m really surprised that you support that process being a supporter of property rights and the like.
    I am told by proposition S supporters that there is no map of school bus stops. they have repeatedly asks for documentation of stops and none seem to exist. Many are ad hoc and change from year to year.

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  13. Walt Avatar

    Paul. It’s still a CONTROLED substance. Since someone is (technically)growing /making a “pharmaceutical”, the cops SHOULD be able to show up without warrant. Just like the FDA can walk in and inspect any other drug maker.
    If your playing by the rules, you should have no issue. Inspections of any business have always been “no notice”. What makes dope growers special?
    BTW,, anyone hear of any charges on the pot grower who killed the guy “passing through” his dope patch in PV? I haven’t heard a word if he was there to rip off dope or not.
    The “legal” dope growing here actually worked out well for me. My EX brother-inlaw got busted hauling his “legal grow” from here to someplace back East.
    I really disliked the SOB.

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  14. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 791pm – The implication of your complaint about 2349 allowing police to enter your property is that passing S would remove this infraction. There is nothing in S to restrict such entry, so this point is moot.
    I understand that The Union publishes the location of school bus stops at the beginning of every school year, and yes, from time to time they do change because the residences of school age children change. Another red herring.
    But one of the provisions of S that disturbs me is that the renting grower has no requirement to tell his landlord that he has become a grower after moving in. Since, as Walt’s 752pm points out, MJ is a controlled substance, it should behoove the would be grower to inform his landlord that he has started such an enterprise in the rental. Requiring the landlord to specify all manner of things in a rental agreement that includes growing MJ is a bit impractical, and most likely would not work. Holding the landlord in any way responsible for the clandestine actions of his renter is IMHO a stretch of justice.

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  15. Walt Avatar

    Funny you bring that up George. That’s way I had to sell my house.
    When the rental agreement was signed, I made it vary clear NO damned growing.
    Stupid me!! I took their word on it. I didn’t do any “inspections”.
    They turned half the place into a grow house. The damage was so bad I had to sell. ( at least I got back what I had in the damned thing.)
    That’s why I don’t live in LWW anymore.
    I didn’t want a grower since it was a nice place, and so were the people all around the place. They were so good, they didn’t even bitch to me about it.
    I found out from LWW. By that time the damage was done. To this day I’m still
    making amends to those fine people for the actions of those bastard tenants.
    I take the time to mow their backyards. That’s how crappy I feel about what went down.
    There is a dose of reality for Paul.
    NO property owner should be held accountable for a lying SOB dope grower.
    You want to grow? do it on your own land.

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  16. Walt Avatar

    One more thing for silent Paul. Dope growing renters don’t give a crap about the property. They make their huge profits, and leave their damage for others to deal with. When the jig is up, they leave, and find another place to set up shop and trash.
    First hand experience bub….

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  17. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Walt, I know people who took major losses on rental property from lousy renters who lied to them who didn’t grow pot.
    Larger security deposits, background checks and actually checking on the property once in awhile helps.

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  18. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    Supporting either option allows police the ability to do enter your property at will. I’m surprised that you accept that. Requesting a total re-write by the BOS would in my opinion be called for in this situation. I’m a bit taken back that you don’t take that path to be consistent with your prescribed principals about property rights.

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  19. Walt Avatar

    Agreed Gregory, Like I said. I didn’t “inspect”. They also “agreed” that they were not going to grow on the premises. They did it anyway.
    When I rented they (she) did disclose they used for “medical reasons”, and had their grow elsewhere. I have a nasty habit of taking people at their word.
    Yup,, stupid me.
    A single mom with two kids. ( and a boyfriend) What a heartless bastard I would have been to not rent at the time.
    Since I have no property to rent anymore, I won’t have to worry about a second time.
    Maybe the law should be that if you want to grow MMJ, it’s must be on your own property. That I have no problem with.
    Why not? They make plenty of money to do just that.

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  20. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 1011pm – MJ is not the only reason the county can enter your property at will for non-criminal issues. You have now conveniently brought this conversation to an end by accusing me of not becoming the county’s champion of property rights. So be it.

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  21. Walt Avatar

    Got a problem with law enforcement “silent” Paul? Have something to hide?
    I guess I’m on Paul’s ” do not respond” list. ( A common ditch digger has the mighty Paul on the ropes.)
    Why shouldn’t police do no notice compliance checks? Inspectors show up at mines with no notice, health inspectors show up at any given food joint without a warrant, Again. What makes dope growers special?
    Answer THAT if you can.
    We haven’t even addressed the tax issue on all that money.
    Hummmmm I see a letter to the editor in the VARY near future. I’m WAY past due.

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  22. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “MJ is a controlled substance”
    It is also legal for some people to grow, possess and consume in this state, and if you want to argue states rights for Bundy in NV, you should back off the no states rights for pot in CA, even if you don’t like the CA law.
    Someday, I may choose to smoke the stuff, inhaling it down to my toes. My first wife had a pot license written without hesitation by a real and respected local mainstream doctor when she started massive chemotherapies for late stage ovarian cancer, but she didn’t want to send mixed messages to our 10 (his age at the start) year old son… but also because our gold plated insurance (thank you, Cisco Systems) paid for all the best and most expensive drugs that worked as well, or better for dealing with the discomforts.
    I thought she was crazy, should have enjoyed the moments as much as possible, and that our boy would have no trouble sorting it out, but it was her decision to make.
    I fully expect a large majority of medical mj users are malingerers to some extent, but I don’t want my tax dollars misused to hassle those that ain’t in order to catch a few that are.
    Current regs aren’t that bad… is S really worse? Walt complains about growers who trashed his rental property but they weren’t following the rules in place. I know when I was renting in my relative youth, about the extent of modifications I was allowed by the rental agreements were a few tiny nails to hang pictures, and even in the townhouse/condominimum [sic] we pretended to own, the CC&R’s specified our ownership of the interior was no deeper than the paint. The walls and wiring were owned in common with the others.
    Should a landlord forbid a cancer patient from growing the number of plants allowed them under state law, if they don’t damage the house or apartment any more than growing a ficus would?

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  23. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    I know someone who told me that LE doesn’t just come on your property on a fishing expedition. They have to see it from the street or receive a complaint. Don’t know if that is true or not and I have no dog in this fight.
    Now, if they see in from the air, then they know pot is being grown at the property. If it appears too large or out of compliance, the compliance patrol comes and issues a fix it ticket. They only ones hauled off to the clink are the dirtbags that have warrants, meth users, repeat offenders, those under probation prohibiting the use of drugs, those in the obvious situation of child endangerment, etc.
    Play by the rules and nothing, absolutely nothing to worry about. Have a script, keep the garden within specified footage/number of plants, and make sure it cannot be seen by neighbors or passerbys. At least that was what I was told.
    Heck, it’s fly over season I reckon cause a whirlybird was flying over my neck of the woods a couple days ago. Last time that happened, I read in The Union about a big bust of over 200 plants (or was it 600 plants?) not too far from my humble abode. And another large bust over the mountain from me. Good. Recreation use of marijuana is not what the voters voted for, neither growing for non medicinal purposes. Let Granny keep her hooch for her ailments, but bust those without a doctor’s prescription or who have 50 plants growing over a fence in the front yard, the dummies. They don’t really even get busted. They are issued a fix it ticket to bring their medicine farm up to compliance.
    the dude that told me the above is what happened to him. The LE were inspecting an out of compliance pot garden (someone complains about the strong skunk smell) and the cops looked over at his property while there and saw he had like 16 plants too many and was given a week or so to bring it into compliance. They did not just pick his property at random like Paul makes it sound like. Now, when the Feds and the State and sheriffs and chp and forest service come knocking all at one time, you know for certain they ain’t there to willy-nilly check on grannie’s medicine.
    Mr. Paul, of course you know that song with the lyrics “paranoia runs deep, into you life it will creep, it’s starts when you are always afraid, step out of line and the man will come and take you away.” Life is too short for paranoia. Keep medicinal herb in compliance and sleep better at night, but watch out for them patch pirates and home invasion types. They ain’t no flower children.

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  24. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Well George you certainly lowered your flag on this one. It’s too bad you’re squeamish about continuing this conversation. It is always difficult to grasp our own hypocrisy bet hey that’s how we grow, You’ve superficially done that to me a few times.

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  25. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    that’s surely done that to me a few times. Spell checking is a flawed dependency for a careless typist.

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  26. Walt Avatar

    Paul needs to quit while he’s still way behind.
    Nut guts to answer the pointed questions? So who’s “property rights” trumps who’s? The renter, or the land owner?
    Now is a great time to do what your famous for….. Change the subject, and answer questions with more questions.
    Your silence is golden.
    The real hypocrite is YOU. Take a good look at Colorado. Full blown legalization, and people are winding up dead because of it. Is that what you want here?
    Your silence is SO telling.( coward)

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  27. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    It’s easy, Walt. If the growing is legal, and not forbidden by contract, the renter can grow.
    Your problem was a lying and destructive tenant.
    Perhaps it would work if the county mounties would keep a registry for landlords who do NOT give permission, express or implied.

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  28. Michael R. Kesti Avatar
    Michael R. Kesti

    George Rebane 1Sep14 06:01 PM
    “In your opinion how closely have we achieved your ideals of regulating and legalizing marijuana with 2349 in Nevada County?”
    2349 so completely misses the mark that I am somewhat surprised you would ask the question.

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  29. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Seems to me that Measure S is not even the issue here. What is the real issue appears to be is full blown legalization of marijuana for any reason. Until that time, many will be unhappy with Measures S-Z and then can we discuss States’ Rights. Right now CA is exercising its States Rights in defiance of Federal Law, but it ain’t good enough for some. From what I perceive from out my window is more and more young people are just not that into pot after a few years.

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  30. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Perhaps the real underlining issue here is unrestricted marijuana cultivation in our neck of the woods, which is already happening in various parts of our county in areas zoned for timber or agriculture as the primary use.

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  31. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 1139pm – I have testified in front of the BoS on property rights issues countless times for years. I am also on perpetual record on RR re my thoughts on property rights. I would venture to say that every supervisor (save perhaps the new one from Truckee) knows and has known Rebane’s beliefs about property rights. I would bet that none of them know yours.
    But you did what you have so often done here. You call someone a hypocrite in a broad area, and leave it at that. What is my hypocrisy? Just because I don’t start a campaign on everything I promote as a commentator is little cause to go ad hominem. I have pointed out the moot points and red herrings of arguments, and yet you persist without further evidence – that’s why this conversation has stopped.
    Again IMHO, Measure S does not provide the marginal benefit to the community of growing marijuana, which I have long believed should be legalized and regulated. If 2349 is not suitable, then a better one should be promoted.

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  32. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “The real hypocrite is YOU. Take a good look at Colorado. Full blown legalization, and people are winding up dead because of it. Is that what you want here?” -Walt challenging Paul E.
    Given the number of people getting drunk and dying because of it, perhaps that needs to be made illegal, too. If someone gets inebriated on anything and then drives, and drives unsafely, the problem is the driver. Especially if the driver is young and male with no sense of how badly they drive on a good day and poor impulse control even when not loaded.
    “A Pacific Institute for Research and Evaluation study used the roadside survey and data from nine states that test more than 80% of drivers killed in crashes. When adjusted for alcohol and driver demographics, the study found that otherwise sober drivers who tested positive for marijuana were slightly less likely to have been involved in a crash than drivers who tested negative for all drugs.”
    http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/01/marijuana-drivers-accidents-alcohol-effect-law-use

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  33. Walt Avatar

    Correct Gregory, “IF” the landlord knows, and agrees is one thing. Seems Paul
    thinks said tenant should be able to keep that secret from the landlord.
    One the whole, this isn’t about someone growing one or two plants for personal use. That’s no big deal. It’s those that “claim” it’s for personal use, and grow as much as they can get away with, if not more. Use what they ” need” and sell the rest. There lies the rub.
    Maybe ALL growers should register with the cops. It’s not much different than me having to register my hand guns, or cars.

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  34. George Rebane Avatar

    MichaelK 622am – Well yes, I do surprise a lot of people, perhaps that is the draw of RR 😉 But that aside, it’s hard (at least for me) to read your mind. Pray tell what is the “mark” that 2349 “misses”, and presumably S does a better job of hitting?
    As I restate in my 814am, “Again IMHO, Measure S does not provide the marginal benefit to the community of growing marijuana, which I have long believed should be legalized and regulated. If 2349 is not suitable, then a better one should be promoted.”

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  35. Walt Avatar

    Gregory.. ( and Paul) Search “Colorado pot deaths”.
    The latest entry is today…..
    It’s a little more involved that stoned driving.

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  36. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “Seems Paul thinks said tenant should be able to keep that secret from the landlord.”
    Some landlords are easier to fool than others, but sadly, both landlords and renters have been telling lies since the first cave was leased by a Neanderthal to an immigrant Cro-Magnon.
    Every lease agreement I ever signed forbid the sort of modifications needed to turn a house into a pot farm despite pot grows being a non issue, in the days one suspected plant could result in the door being broken down.

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  37. Brad Avatar
    Brad

    One of the provisions of the current ordinance that I think needs to be changed is the ridiculous setback requirements surrounding setbacks from bus stops.
    What does a bus stop have to do with anything? It just seems to be a way to harass producers based on a “Reefer Madness” type paranoia. It is as if the supes/cops envision growers standing outside their properties trying to entice school kids to fire up a doob while they are waiting for the bus. I think growers want to be more discreet rather than less discrete. I think “S” decreases the setback distance. Not a big deal in my mind. I like “S” so far. I don’t think “S” is asking for that much.

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  38. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Greg
    There are official bus stops and ad hoc ones that change each year. According to ASA the sheriff has never provided a list. The reg says 1000′ from any bus stop and the sheriff does use the ad hoc stops as a justification for a visit.
    For various reasons I don’t support either measure but “s” is better and very similar to Yuba County.
    George
    Quite simply support fir either measure allows police searches on any property without a criminal search warrant. Support for either measure supports that process which in my view is a violation of property rights. A code inspection is easy to get because it does not involve criminal violations. Having the sheriff enforce these codes really opens up virtually all property in the County to inspection on a whim with no documentation or evidence.

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  39. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Brad, to repeat, I don’t have a dog in this fight and I realize that you were not addressing me. Just passing along information.
    When this issue was a hot topic last time and the BOS’s chambers were swamped, Mr. Paul posted a link to the existing ordinance. I copied that link and saved it as a short cut on my old computer so I could be knowledgable about all the fuss and gnashing of teeth was about. That computer went to E-waste heaven.
    I must have read the preamble at least 5 times as to the purpose and reasonings behind the ordinance in general AND the purposes of setbacks specifically. Very informative and common sense if you ask me. LE’s concerns were addressed. Like it might be too much temptation for a 14 year old kid to see pot plants near his school bus stop, thus the potential for the kid to grab some bud and perhaps even get hurt by the grower, not to mention committing an act of theft or the school’s zero tolerance policies (my paraphrase only), Other safety concerns about home invasions which effect the grower’s and community’s health and safety. LE still does the “to protect and serve” motto. The preamble addressed concerns of next door neighbors as well who suffer from smell pollution and nuisances, now matter how much that got pooh- poohed by the crowd. I read the preamble as law enforcement’s concerns being addressed as well as the rights of growers and non growers living next door as well.
    With the above said, I realized that within the actual ordinance, set backs would make it darn near impossible to grow outdoors if you live in tiny houses packed side by side like on some of the streets in our downtowns. Heck, some of those old gold rush cabins/homes don’t even have a driveway, going back to the hitching the horse in the front days. Guess most any 3 digit address would not be the place to grow outdoors because of property line setbacks on the side yards, not to mention from the residence in the back. Neither are gated communities a good place to grow.
    Still am confused as to what exactly is a translucent fence. Guess corrugated fiberglass panels might be, but they are closer to opaque, IMHO. Does not seem reasonable that a thick hedge is not a fence since some hedges are almost impossible to penetrate and it’s much easier to cut thru chain link or pry open a couple boards of a wooden dog eared fence for us with the criminal minds. Did agree 100% that detached indoor grows should have good electrical wiring, not an extension cord running across the back 40 rain or shine. That in and of itself could save lives and prevent fires.
    Long ramble to say check out the preamble to the ordinance to see why setbacks were instituted.

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  40. Michael R. Kesti Avatar
    Michael R. Kesti

    GeorgeR 2Sep14 08:50 AM
    The mark that 2349 misses is, to use your words, my “ideals of regulating and legalizing marijuana.” I was fairly certain that you were referring to my statement, “All that remains to complete the parallels is to legalize and regulate marijuana in exactly the way we do alcohol.”

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  41. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    And, Mr. Brad, one would hope growers are discrete as it is in their best interests to do so. I would argue that nobody cares about their crop more than the grower himself. I would also argue that not everybody has your mindset and thus we have laws. If dumbasses did not exist, there would be no need for laws prohibiting rape or muderer of robbery to even exist on the books.

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  42. Walt Avatar

    No Paul, police searches of drug grows is NOT a property rights violation. Warrant or not.
    Just like they can come to MY property to “inspect” my shooting aria to see if I’m doing it safely. If someone close by bitchs about gun fire, they pretty good “probable cause”. The same goes for the smell of a pile of dead skunks.
    How well does telling them “get a warrant” fly? Enjoy the SWAT “inspection”.
    I had the “G” man pay me a visit because of my backyard 2ND Amendment right.
    ( I read the county ordinance before the first shot was fired, and made sure I was within the rules) Did I get a phone call first before they showed up? ( I’ll give you one guess) Upon arrival I knew full well what they were here for before they got out of the car. ” Come on back and have a look! Here are the weapons I use back here.”
    Since I was well within the county “ordinance” ( playing by the rules) I got a clean bill of health.
    Yet the guy next door isn’t so lucky. Not enough setbacks per the rules.
    Is his “rights” being infringed?
    Tell me again how the pot growers are getting a raw deal with the existing laws.

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  43. Brad Avatar
    Brad

    Bill, thanks. I did not read any comments, only added my own opinion to the mix.
    Looking at the ‘purpose’ of the existing ordinance, it is trying to “save” us (nanny state?) from becoming the next Menocino. Really? I thought we were already on par with Humboldt and Mendocino. I have no way of telling though.
    By the way, I think 3 digit addresses are exempt from this ordinance since they are within city limits.

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  44. Paul Emery Avatar

    First of all Brad all my references to pot growers are to those growing within the State guidelines. Simplified that means 6 plants per person with a legitimate “recommendation” as described by state law. Those growers are not in violation of State law therefore cannot be charged even if they are not in “”compliance” with county codes. The state allow collective grows and it goes something like this. A grower can grow for others with a “recommendation” and receive due compensation for time and materials involved in the grow.
    For example if a grower has 6 recommendations and they are displayed in the garden they can grow 36 mature plants. That process is consistent with State law and not illegal. If someone grows 36 plants with no recommendations they are in violation of State law and can be criminally charged.
    The NC ordinance does not allow growers the room to grow those plants because of restrictions of garden size. Yuba County changed their ordinance to accommodate. This has not created a great problem so why not Nevada County?
    The Feds are not interested in small growers only plantations especially on public land.
    Essentially what the Ordinance does of give the police freedom to romp through neighborhoods with only “code” warrants to see what people are up to. They can the return with Criminal warrants based on their observations.
    You must see the danger in this arbitrary use of police power. By the way, normally police do not enforce code violations . Only in Nevada County because the BOS passed special resolution . They can and according to some persons do use the ordinance to gain access to property they want to examine for other reasons.
    I cringe every time the Sheriff asks for more “tools” to do their job. We have a good Sheriff but whomever occupies that chair in the future will have the same tool belt.

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  45. Paul Emery Avatar

    That was for Bill

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  46. Walt Avatar

    Define “just compensation” Paul. The whole idea behind the state law was to take away the huge profits. UUmmm That didn’t happen. I don’t see any accountability of “product” to the one who’s recommendation it was grown under.
    For the sake of argument ( one sided at best) If I have someone grow me ten plants, how in hell do I know I get ALL of it? How do I know if an ounce or two per plant wasn’t “skimmed”? ( for profitable reasons)
    Do I get a copy of the water bill, and pay “my fair share”? What’s the going rate for labor? ( You know,, “just compensation”)
    My ex-Brother-inlaw raked in the bucks growing “other people’s pot”.
    As I see it there is no oversight of this by anyone, yet you don’t want inspections like any other “business” that may be subject to.
    LIBS complain of “Wall St. greed”.. But Dope grower greed is fine and dandie.

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  47. Bonnie McGuire Avatar

    Lots of discussion here that brings to mind what a county inspector told me several years ago…”Just about everything is against the law. We don’t really care unless someone complains…”

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  48. George Rebane Avatar

    The discussion so far has grown wide and varied. And I can’t see us circling in on an ordinance that has any semblance of consensus behind it. The prime reason again is that all participants have their own definition of what constitutes a ‘good ordinance’ (i.e. more formally, their own individual utility functions for growing marijuana). So what is passionately and obviously good for one may be abhorrent and even evil for another. No possibility to come to comprehending the other’s POV, let alone a mutual understanding. I have discussed the basis for this many times in the past, here’s one –
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2009/11/why-reason-fails.html
    My only conclusion why we persist in this form of ‘communal reasoning’ is that it must be fun for each of us to lecture others from our own comfortable but obscure Pedestal of Truth and Logic.
    Were we to get serious about drafting a more acceptable MJ ordinance, we would begin by laying out what are the attributes of a good ordinance, and seeing if we could all accept such a set of attributes (utility or objective function) before starting craft/debate individual rules. Then we could all see whether/how a proposed rule satisfies the attributes. This is what the big kids do in business when there is serious money at stake. Otherwise it’s all posturing and politics. Will the sun ever rise on such a day when we really can reason together? No breath being held here – carry on.

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  49. Brad Avatar
    Brad

    My feeling is that the emergency ordinance was fear-based, and that “S” is an attempt to bring it into a more reasonable space.
    For those anti-NH2020 NIMBY types among us, it sure seems like everybody is spending too much time trying to control what goes on in other people’s backyards, especially now that we have our new event ordinance.

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  50. Walt Avatar

    Want an idea of how many grows may be near you? Google Earth will enlighten you.
    You can’t miss them. ( the outdoor crops at least) Even greenhouses stick out like a sore *utthole.
    Nice circles of green spaced out equally in large clearings.
    Once you take a look just around the County, one could believe every resident of the county has a “script”.

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