Rebane's Ruminations
May 2014
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George Rebane

Friend and Nevada County cartoonist extraordinaire RL ‘Bob’ Crabb nailed it in yesterday’s (3may14) Union with this offering (pilfered below) on the plan for the government to next confiscate our ground water, and either prohibit its consumption or charge us for it.

Crabb140504

I hope that all RR readers have been aware of these sub-rosa ‘takings’ that have been going on for some time now.  And I hope that all will understand where this will end up when the socialists finally achieve their Agenda21 objectives and declare their true colors – i.e. when the state will constructively own EVERYTHING.  (We all remember that you own something only to the extent that you can dispose of it as you will.)

The governments of America have been constructively appropriating private property for at least two generations now.  They still let us keep pieces of paper that state our ‘ownership’ of things, but that is a ruse.  All those pieces of paper let you do is to transfer possession and maintenance to another nebbish, and in the interval you are responsible for paying all government fees and legal liabilities that the property entails and may become involved in.

These myriad fees and judgments are drained from us with the argument that they pay for marginal services that the government provides or allows someone else to provide in our behalf.  Upon examination, the overwhelming number of these marginal payments are nothing but payola and protection money.  Protection from what? you may ask – protection from not being jailed or worse if you don’t pay or resist confiscation.

The next question then is, Well, for what do we pay the ever increasing amount of taxes on April 15th?  The answer to that is becoming more clear with every passing year – on the federal level, we are overwhelmingly taxed for wealth redistribution and debt service; on the state and local levels for reimbursing unfunded liabilities (e.g. public service pensions) incurred in our name, without our knowledge, and against our wishes.  Everything else on the margins will become a fee or extra charge added on to this or that purchase.  Ultimately, I predict we will marginally pay for every mile of public road we travel on, and for the air we breathe since the government will argue that it costs them to monitor air quality and chase down the ‘polluters’.  Also, look for a global warming tax to be levied based on some indescribably hokey metric that is guaranteed to keep on increasing regardless of air quality.

Finally, the accounting for the amounts of these marginal charges will be unfathomable and beyond corruption (the successor word has yet to be invented).  In the end the concept of money will be withdrawn and we will all be consuming with government issued credits that will be allocated on the basis of an extremely elaborate rationing scheme – and no fair saving up credits, they will just disappear from your account in order to maintain a mandated level of material equality among the citizenry.

And I do understand that some of you will argue that we are already on the threshold of this brave new socially just and sustainable world.

Posted in , , ,

71 responses to “And all these things used to be ours”

  1. fish Avatar
    fish

    I see an enthusiastic discussion in our immediate futures.

    Like

  2. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    So George (or am I really talking to April Glaspie!?!), if I slant drill some delicious water out of my neighbor’s aquifer, am I not just exercising my robust property right?

    Like

  3. Russ Steele Avatar

    The fractured granite aquifers in the foothill areas of western Sierra Nevada, cannot be characterized as typical aquifers. There is a linear flow along the fractures. Thus anyone drilling into the same fractures shares the water in the fracture, which may go miles into the Sierra. Models that assumed uniform aquifer properties can not be applied to the Sierra. Therefore, there is no need for slant drilling. We can all share the water in the same fractures. It is a Sierra Nevada common, and it is influences by all users, and suffers from all the problems of a community common. One of the real unknowns is, are more than two wells in the same fracture? How many wells are using the fracture. No way to tell with out complex chemical analysis.

    Like

  4. John Avatar
    John

    Your neighbor’s aquifer MA? Is that a vertical possessory right? Have not heard of this. Is this then a mineral right? Do you and you neighbor own what is below the surface? Or do you get to use what passes beneath your surface?

    Like

  5. George Rebane Avatar

    re RussS 900am – Russ has it right. The water people hereabouts informed me long ago that Nevada County actually has only one underground water reservoir that can be called an aquifer, and that is located in the Truckee area.

    Like

  6. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Those that live where the good doc and Mr. Russ abide have no ground water. The water is in the rock. Penn Valley has ground water and not very big.
    I have been clamoring for a couple of years now that they will be taxing your well water….and mine too! They just can’t help themselves now can they? Too predictable. Easy call. Maybe not today, maybe El Dorado County first, then Glen County, then….. I know, its to help the little people. All water belongs to the EPA or NOAA. When Big Bro decided to expand NOAA from the big blue sea inland, your could smell that rat a mile away.
    Tax you (er, permit or fee) to dig a well, then charge you for using water from the well. This whole idea gets me hotter than a goat’s butt in a pepper patch.
    I have always told people for at least 30 years now that someday THEY (The Hideous Enviro Yappers) will tax or charge or fee you for breathing air. I also remind people that I have a big snout because as of date the air is free. They can come and take the air out of my dead cold nostrils.

    Like

  7. Russ Steele Avatar

    Bill T at 10:00AM
    They are already taxing you for the air you breath, or I should say exhale. The tax bill in in your utility bill.

    Like

  8. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Thank you Mr. Steele. Guess I can’t use the Clintonese line “I smoked, but I didn’t inhale.” Perhaps I should coin a phrase like “I inhaled, but I didn’t exhale.”
    Dr. Rebane ended his fine thoughts with “And I do understand that some of you will argue that we are already on the threshold of this brave new socially just and sustainable world.” Sustainable? Boy, Dr. Rebane has a very acute, astute, and understated sense of humor. Made my ribs almost cracked reading that last line. Would be funnier if it did not hurt so much.
    https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/t1.0-9/1004965_10151891237710911_419553290_n.jpg
    https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/1517669_10151891300390911_274329800_n.png
    This is how the brave new sustainable world looks like:
    https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/t1.0-9/10171753_10152066744165911_36709035320372600_n.jpg

    Like

  9. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Guys, I was painting a simile, not fishing for a science lesson. Thanks but I’m already well aware of the properties of Sierra Nevada fossil water.
    Never mind…

    Like

  10. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Whisky is for drinking, water is for fighting.
    “Guys, I was painting a simile, not fishing for a science lesson. Thanks but I’m already well aware of the properties of Sierra Nevada fossil water.”
    Where is there “fossil water” (aka sedimentary aquifers) in the Sierra Nevada, Mike?

    Like

  11. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    I am more afraid of Pepsi, Coke, Nestle, and other bottlers taking my water and selling it back to me than the government taking my water. If the government takes my water they will give it to Nestle, et al, who will then sell it back to me. Take Fiji water for example. The people on Fiji have very little clean drinking water. Their main source of clean water is the Fiji water source that is bottled and sold globally, as well as sold to the Fijians most of whom can’t afford it. When local governments requested that Fiji Water allow local entities to also get water from the same source, they were told no. When the government hinted at forcing Fiji Water to give water to the locals, Fiji Water, being the largest source of income for the island republic, told them to shut up or they would pack up and leave. It’s kind of like big corporations extorting tax breaks and subsidies to relocate. Who cares if the poor people of Fiji have to drink contaminated water and their children die from waterborne diseases, there is money to be made by people who already have more money than they can ever spend. After all, the right of the wealthy to own 32 cars and 12 vacation homes takes precedent over the right of poor people to have clean drinking water because poor people don’t create jobs or some other lame excuse for allowing massive greed. Once again, profit over people. But who cares as long as it isn’t you that is drinking filth?

    Like

  12. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Pull yourself out of Todd’s diaper; mandersonation, if you post here, you’re posting to everyone, and no, “fossil water” isn’t an apt description for western Sierra aquifers (where we are) tapped by homeowners. We aren’t mining water that can’t be replenished in the short term.
    That said, not every homesite has a great spot for a low cost well.

    Like

  13. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    George, the Truckee area basin-fill aquifer can be seen (barely) on this map; the county lines are perhaps the best guide to find it.
    http://pubs.usgs.gov/ha/ha730/ch_b/gif/b011.gif

    Like

  14. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    JoKe, it’s telling you had to find an island nation and a Swiss multinational to spin a simple discussion of local water into a scary scenario.
    What, the Koch Bro’s aren’t trying to pump Nevada County dry?

    Like

  15. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    Gregory, — greed is greed wherever you find it. Take for example Nestle who recently built a bottling plant for Sacramento City water in West Sac. While many of Sac City water’s customers are on rationing, under the agreement made with the City of Sacramento, Nestle can bottle as much water as they want and because they are one of the largest city water customers, Nestle gets a discount. So while the residents of Sacramento can’t water their lawns, they can buy back the water they saved from Nestle at a buck a pint. As usual, you are missing the point, the Koch Bros. actually would pump Nevada Co. dry if they could make a buck at it. Your view of benevolent greed is beyond naive.

    Like

  16. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Great, I see that my comment has been “moderated.”
    Selective moderation is the worst, it puts this alleged “blog” into the Todd Juvinall category. So, Greg’s rude question stands and my reply is gone. Whatever.
    I’ll check back in a couple of years to find out if the owner and his commentators are still advocating violence against federal and state employees, making fun of people’s weight, calling people names and slandering their good names and businesses, and all of the other community-building exercises for which Rebane’s Ruminations is famous.
    BTW, when I wrote about Todd’s “chair” in my now-deleted comment, I meant “booster seat.”

    Like

  17. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    Gregory– by the way.. you are wrong about Fiji water, it is California based (Los Angeles) and owned by Stewart and Linda Resnick of Beverly Hills, who also own Roll Global, a large agribusiness holding company whose brands include POM, Fiji, and Teleflora. So, next time, try doing your homework before making your usual knee-jerk reaction to information you don’t like to hear and know nothing about.

    Like

  18. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    For the record, the “rude question” that sent Anderson into a potty mouthed frenzy (since deleted) was “Where is there “fossil water” (aka sedimentary aquifers) in the Sierra Nevada, Mike?”
    Some folks are just a bit oversensitive. Not to mention delusional, which seems to me to be the case for much of mandersonation’s 10:02. Mike, let go of your hate.

    Like

  19. fish Avatar
    fish

    I’ll check back in a couple of years to find out if the owner and his commentators are still advocating violence against federal and state employees, making fun of people’s weight, calling people names and slandering their good names and businesses, and all of the other community-building exercises for which Rebane’s Ruminations is famous.
    You’re magnificent in high dudgeon!
    out if the owner and his commentators are still advocating violence against federal and state employees….
    Some evidence of this accusation would be appreciated. Recognizing a thing is hardly the same as advocating that thing.
    making fun of people’s weight, calling people names….. …..guilty as charged! It’s the internet Michael not a sewing circle or day care. If enforced moderation is what you seek I think you know where to find it. Oh and “calling names” …..Pot meet Kettle!
    and all of the other community-building exercises for which Rebane’s Ruminations is famous.
    Is this a requirement to post here George. It was my understanding that you host a venue where people have the opportunity to exchange ideas and opinions. I may be seriously in arrears if “community service” time is required.
    (Oh and Michael…even this took about 6 minutes to post I’m off today so the taxpayers dollar hasn’t been squandered)

    Like

  20. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Adios MichaelA. You always supply the comment section with a good laugh.
    Oh, and I would suspect you are not involving yourself in any community endeavors as in helping others as you claim George does not. Sorry MichaelA, we are all volunteer types for the less fortunate. So again you are simply wrong. We just don’t pat ourselves on the back like you and your lib pals.

    Like

  21. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Sorry, JoKe, but I’ve been avoiding Nestle since their baby formula pushing days. I’m not the guy your delusions tell you I am.
    I made no claim of Fiji Water’s country of incorporation, only that you had to look to Fiji for a problem, and used a Swiss multinational (you named Nestle twice in the same paragraph) to make a scary post, both of which were true.
    Try to think clearly before you push the button.

    Like

  22. fish Avatar
    fish

    Your view of benevolent greed is beyond naive.
    Posted by: Joe Koyote | 05 May 2014 at 10:02 AM

    Your childish trust in elected officials and bureaucratic institutions is equally naive.

    Like

  23. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    “Mike, let go of your hate.”
    Greg, go fuck yourself.

    Like

  24. George Rebane Avatar

    JoeK 917am – We have devolved into the assertion of “rights” that the rich and the poor have according to the lights that guide you and other progressives. I am aware of no rights that the rich have multiple cars and vacation homes, nor do I know of any rights that the poor have for clean drinking water.
    The gratuitous and unthinking use of ‘rights’ and their injection into every discussion of enterprise and public policy does dilute the important meaning of the notion when its precise definition is needed. In actuality, rights of individuals and institutions are few and therefore sacrosanct in societies living in liberty and under laws.
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2010/03/rights-and-privileges.html

    Like

  25. fish Avatar
    fish

    “Mike, let go of your hate.”
    Greg, go fuck yourself.

    Damn Michael why so cranky today…things have been fairly quiet at Georges DMZ recently?

    Like

  26. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Mike 11:46AM, let go of your hate.

    Like

  27. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Michael, you must be bloated today. Is it that time of month or is it your eyes looking rather puffy today? I still love ya even though I taped my fishing show over our wedding video. I knew you would understand. Yes, I make fun of jerks and if they are a big fat jerk, then I make fun of big fat jerks, including throwing in the fat part when you do not seem ever to address the topic. Call me akin to Brother Ben, the defender of the anonymous poster. If it is any consolation, I think Burning Man would be a blast. Here, this might turn your frown into a smile. It takes more muscles to frown than to smile.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpFD-kgQxnI
    Joe K, who in the hell can afford Fiji water? That be for Nevada City types, not this low life, aka, moi. Besides, it we are gonna ban plastic bags, we might as ban plastic water bottles just to appear non hypocritical in pretense at the very least. I have not one but two canteens on the ready.
    Now, if we all went out and screwed ourselves, mankind would cease to exist. Something to think about before a group hug.
    Water has always been California gold. Indeed, it used to be ours. Go sit on a happy face.

    Like

  28. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    opps, that should have read “when ONE do not seem ever to address the topic.” Did not mean to say “you” as if I was inferring Mr. Anderson does not address the topic or thread at hand. I still love ya Sky Pilot not matter how far off the ground you get. You are my special Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.

    Like

  29. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Did MichaelA say a bad word? Too funny! LOL

    Like

  30. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Well, the Group is moving to Whispering Pines in GV. Good news for the coffers of Grass Valley, but not so good for Nevada City. All Nevada City can say concerning Grass Valley (formerly known as The Grass Valley Group or The Group) is “All these things used to be ours.”
    http://knco.com/nc-mayor-hopeful-business-can-fill-grass-valley-void/

    Like

  31. Michael R. Kesti Avatar
    Michael R. Kesti

    I keep having this unsettling feeling that I should post my home phone number and a deadline for Michael Anderson to call me.

    Like

  32. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    I think you are all going to have to get used to the fact that “these things that used to be yours” in many of the ways you think never were yours to begin with.
    No one owns water, what we own is the right to ‘use’ water, which under California law is a legal entitlement authorizing water to be diverted from a specified source and put to beneficial, nonwasteful use.
    Water rights are property rights, but their holders do not own the water itself. They possess the right to use it.
    It is actually quite simple, water is a ‘commons’; more people, more water use; less water more competition for the use of water; more competition for the use, the higher the need for rationalizing the system that allocates use; the greater the risk of permanent damage or infringement on neighboring property rights to groundwater resources from subsidence, contamination, or overdraft, the greater the need for rationalizing the system.
    The exercise of many water rights requires a permit or license from the State Water Resources Control Board, whose objective is to ensure that the State’s waters are put to the best possible use, and that the public interest is served.
    In the case of groundwater, land owners may extract percolating ground water and put it to beneficial use without approval from the State Board or a court. California does not have a permit process for regulation of ground water use, but retains the right to require a permit if it is in the public interest.
    Many groundwater basins in California have regulatory schemes, a great local example would be Sierra Valley, where overdraft in the 1950’s was leading to permanent damage to the aquifer, thus a groundwater management district was established. Since there is a direct link between groundwater and surface water flow there is increasing pressure for groundwater management due infringement on the property rights of surface water users.
    In several basins, however, like the one I live over in the Martis Valley in eastern Nevada County, groundwater use, and surface water, is subject to regulation in accordance with court decrees adjudicating the water rights within the basin. In our case surface water use is regulated through the Truckee River Operating Agreement, a federal process that allocates water between the California portion of the Truckee River watershed portion of the river, Reno and Washoe County, the Fallon Irrigation District in western Nevada, and the Pyramid Lake Paiute Tribe, but groundwater use from the Martis Valley aquifer is not regulated.
    In making decisions, the State Water Board by law must keep three major goals in mind: developing water resources in an orderly manner and maintaining a sustainable supply; preventing waste and unreasonable use of water; and protecting the environment.
    The greater the water use the more these three goals come into conflict.
    I think what people are really having a problem with is that more stress is being put on our access to finite resources; but they are finite resources, so it is only logical that eventually they are going to be regulated, to protect and clarify everyones rights.

    Like

  33. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Everything has become regulated. Water is probably the most regulated and look how wonderful the government manages its “responsibility”. We have fought off every attempt to put a meter on our private wells in the mountains but they keep coming. I agree they will eventually take them too. You know, that government that is supposedly made and run by the “people”.

    Like

  34. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 06 May 2014 at 07:28 AM
    Yes Todd, by all of the people, not just you.
    When your well reduces water supply for your neighbor his/her property rights are infringed upon. The problem is finite resources shared amongst an ever increasing number of people. Your property rights are then protected when your neighbors well is metered to maintain supply to your property.

    Like

  35. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Frisch 07:55 AM
    Always make it personal don’t you. Wells are the property of the property owner and in the mountains the fractures are different than in the valley. You apparently are unaware of that fact. You post in favor of more regulation and government control which is something I and others here are opposed to. You would make an effective commissar Frisch. Putin would make you the boss.

    Like

  36. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “Water rights are property rights, but their holders do not own the water itself. They possess the right to use it.”
    Unless, of course, the only use of the water rights is for cattle who were banned from the area so that tortoises from another area slated for solar development might have a new habitat.
    “they are finite resources, so it is only logical that eventually they are going to be regulated, to protect and clarify everyones rights.”
    Yes, to the regulator, or wannabee regulator, it’s logical that if anything can be regulated, it will be.

    Like

  37. George Rebane Avatar

    stevenfrisch 712am – actually, according to the operational definition of ownership (the only one that really means anything), groundwater and even certain kinds of surface water (non-flowing) did belong to us here in the US. Water is not a global homogeneous whole; there is this water and that water. And these several waters are treated very differently.
    But you are right in the sense that if any widely used finite resource (a commons if you will) is consumed to the point where it hurtfully impacts others, then people will get together and seek to remove that hurt. Usually that is done through their voices in government. However, government is always the worst allocator of resources for reasons that have decorated these pages for years – e.g. consider the gazillions of gallons of Sierra fresh water pouring into the Pacific for the sake of the delta smelt et al.
    So the battle is really between bigger government people seeking regulation based on dis(re)puted criteria, and those who would have government be the last agency invited to adjudicate any given problem. Yes, a lot of these problems would go away if we didn’t have so many people all clamoring for freshly manufactured ‘rights’.
    In the final analysis we in northern California don’t have an intrinsic water problem. We have self-made problems when we decide to put insignificant fish over human enterprise, and pay a water tribute to soCal which does have an intrinsic water problem that is hiding under political cover.

    Like

  38. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    While I do not agree the Delta Smelt is insignificant, it’s absolutely nuts for thousands of mature (and maturing) almond trees to be allowed to die for lack of water in order to improve the smelt habitat an insignificant amount during a drought which may well be over in less than a year, but such is the tyranny of current environmental laws.

    Like

  39. George Rebane Avatar

    re Gregory 945am – Yes, ‘significance’ is a term denoting relative importance – for whom and at what threshold? But personally, I am not aware of anyone for whom the actual number or even the existence of the delta smelt are significant. Now no doubt there are bureaucrats paid for monitoring and enforcing the regulated environment for these critters, but even the careers of these people are not significant for me or to anyone I know.

    Like

  40. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Its not all black and white. Delta Smelt is a red herring, pardon the pun. What we need to remember is that water must flow robustly to the Bay to keep the salt water from encroaching inland. Salty water is bad for everybody, except perhaps a few of us land sharks.
    https://myspace.com/e05x/video/land-shark/46950682
    Apparently taking a shower or doing the dishes from one’s foothill well without regulations/fees/inspections/permits/monitoring will go the way of My Space

    Like

  41. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    George, just because Environmentalists Gone Wild! has gone overboard does not mean we shouldn’t notice when a species, a part of a diverse ecosystem (choosing words as a bullfighter might wield his cape), is severely threatened. It’s reasonable to not wipe them out; what isn’t reasonable is to discount the effects of denying water to farmers. I mention almond trees for a reason… once dead, they’re dead. What is insignificant is the number of saved smelt per dead tree. Insanity.

    Like

  42. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 06 May 2014 at 08:04 AM
    Todd, with all due respect, you used your own personal well as an example.

    Like

  43. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 06 May 2014 at 08:04 AM
    “You apparently are unaware of that fact. You post in favor of more regulation and government control which is something I and others here are opposed to.”
    I am also quite aware of how groundwater works in the mountains. I live here too, and I spend a considerable amount of time studying water policy.
    Everything I posted above re: regulation of ground water is existing law, none of it is new law.

    Like

  44. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    SteveF, Where did you obtain your knowedge of water and wells in Nevada County? I built a lot of homes and drilled a lot of wells, read a lot of EIR’s when I was a Supervisor. But I bow to your superior knowledge as a Non Profit CEO Administrator. Not! Too funny

    Like

  45. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 06 May 2014 at 05:12 PM
    Todd, do you deny that what I posted above is all based on existing California water law?
    It is almost straight from the public resources code.
    I gained my knowledge of water rights and water rights law and code the same way you did, by reading; reports, EIR’s, groundwater studies, and scientific papers. I also read several water blogs on a regular basis, such as Aquifornia, Maven’s Notebook & Hydrowonk, all of which regularly point to new information on groundwater and groundwater management. I read the updates (too infrequent I might add) from the Groundwater Information Center, a site maintained by the Department of Water Resources. I attend symposiums on water in California on a relatively regular basis where scientific papers and research are presented. Finally, since I am involved in water legislation, I follow the legislative actions and analysis.
    The bottom line is you may know more about drilling a well, I don’t doubt that, but I may know more about water rights, and the status of water law. And I have made it my business to know the region I live in the watershed I live in and the aquifer I live over.
    That is the beautiful thing about education, it is the great leveler, I can know what I put the time and effort into knowing.
    Bottom line is George, Greg and you are all 100% wrong; property owners own their well, they own their pipes, they may own rights to use water (surface or ground) but they do not own the water, they only own the right to use it, as long as they use it for beneficial purposes, and to the extent that their use does not infringe on the rights of their neighbors.
    Nothing I said above proposes any new regulations, it is based on existing water law.

    Like

  46. George Rebane Avatar

    stevenfrisch 726pm – Not sure what I was wrong about. That you quote current code to demonstrate that I don’t own something because the government has more guns and can take it away from me is not an argument. In exactly the same way there are laws already on the books that allow the feds to come and take EVERYTHING I have at any time they wish to declare an appropriate situation or emergency that will relieve me of my property. It’s called the National Defense Authorization Act.
    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/113/hr1960/text
    Until then, I still own things that I can dispose of as I will. Today that includes the groundwater in my well, even though you and yours have designs on my future ownership of it.

    Like

  47. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “Bottom line is George, Greg and you are all 100% wrong; property owners own their well, they own their pipes, they may own rights to use water (surface or ground) but they do not own the water, they only own the right to use it…”
    And just where did I write anything to the contrary? You’re tilting at windmills, again. Erecting the straw men you are soooo good at knocking down.

    Like

  48. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: George Rebane | 06 May 2014 at 09:40 PM
    George, there are facts and there is theory.
    What you are wrong about is ‘that you own the water in your well”. You don’t and you never did. You own the right to use the water in your well; but ultimately you only own that right to the extent that it does not diminish the rights of someone else.
    What I am stating is fact, and has been fact since the 1850’s; what you are stating is the ‘world as you wish it were”, or theory.
    It has nothing to do with my ‘designs’ on your property.

    Like

  49. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: Gregory | 06 May 2014 at 11:48 PM
    “Yes, to the regulator, or wannabee regulator, it’s logical that if anything can be regulated, it will be.”
    Water rights are already regulated, even ground water rights, and the code exists to impose further regulation to deal with drought or scarcity. You are wrong in that you are by implication misrepresenting my position. I am not proposing any new regulation here, merely pointing out that the regulation already exists.

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