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April 2014
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George Rebane

When tyrannies make the laws, all opponents of tyranny are then seen and treated as criminals.

The ownership and control of our public lands is a mess, both legally and constitutionally.  Save for military bases (an arguably constitutional provision), why does the federal government claim ownership – laughably in the name of ‘the public’ – of large parts of the country?  Save for preserving certain particularly scenic locales as public parks, why do states need to own land?  (I find federal ownership of land for parks and recreation to also be constitutionally unfounded.)  Yes, there are reasons for state governments to share control of ‘infrastructure land’ that contain navigable rivers, flood control dams and levees, and water reservoirs, but owning thousands of square miles of open range, mountains, and forests, the case for such has no reasonable constitutional basis.

PublicLands
(Recall the definition of ownership, you ‘own’ something only to the extent that you can dispose of it as you wish.)

Due to the Bundy Ranch gathering of citizens concerned with the jackboot behavior of various fed and state agencies, the BLM has decided to withdraw in order to regroup and replan their next assault, because they apparently expected none of what happened – e.g. consider the set aside of a little ‘First Amendment Rights’ pen for the few people who might show up to quietly protest as permitted by their betters.

I was heartened that this event finally demonstrated what can happen when citizens ‘just say NO!’, both in their courage to unambiguously state that a limit to overreach had been broached, and also by the rapid gathering of supportive citizens who were willing to take an unknown risk against militarized government units armed with machine guns, snipers, and helicopters.  I hope that this might set an inspiring example for locals all over the country to resist the next diktat that comes down from above to perfunctorily limit more of what/how/when people can do, say, wear, eat, build, travel, stay, read, watch, learn, work, recreate, worship, display, spend, receive, join, … .  If the Bundy standoff can serve as the starting point for Americans everywhere to change their recently inbred docile acceptance to one of critical examination and consideration before compliance or its rejection, then this will have been a productive milestone on the road back to liberty.  (Nevada County electeds please take note.)

As to resolving the grazing on public lands matter, I expect that the feds will be back after an appropriate media propaganda blitz that will demonize the Bundys and others who may have similar thoughts.  Here we can hope that this will raise the country’s awareness of the public lands issue, and after appropriate debate, lead to a resolution that gets the feds out of the land management business and, perhaps, shuts down a tax consuming bureaucracy.  Important and exciting times ahead.

[19apr14 update]  Contrary to the somewhat bombastic interpretations of our progressive constitutional pundits, the legitimacy of federal retention of vast tracts of western lands is being called to question by lawmakers in western states (more here).  The historical legality of such federal retention which I and a number of other observers have criticized is now coming to the attention of some of our conservative political leadership.  The bottom line is still that the feds have usurped the states’ intended rights to own and control (i.e. dispose of as they will) public lands within their borders, and a progressive judicial system has made mockery of the clear original intent of the Constitution in this matter.

Perhaps now a reasoned debate can start on the most appropriate process through which we can erase the overwhelming amount of the western red areas in the above map.  To be sure, the big government collectivists will fight tooth and nail to retain as much central control of domestic policies in Washington as possible.  America’s historical standards of liberty and self-determination demand the devolution of such central controls to the states and counties where the people live.

Posted in , , , ,

318 responses to “A Takeaway from Bundy Ranch (updated 19apr14)”

  1. George Rebane Avatar

    Walt 352pm – Thanks Walt, have fixed the link in the post.

    Like

  2. Russ Steele Avatar

    Brad,
    It it true, the solar facility is a long way from the Bundy grazing area, but if your read the BLM documents you will see that the BLM needs the grazing land to relocate the tortoises from the solar area. It was a mitigation agreement need to create the Solar Zone. On these issues one need to drill down and ask why? The real reason is often hidden from the public. We get treated to hand waving.

    Like

  3. Walt Avatar

    Yup,, I did mention Iceland a while back after it had a pretty good shake.
    You DO realize that’s part of the “Mid Atlantic Ridge”? No far from that spot
    are two sleeping giants, and it’s never taken much to rudely awaken them.
    I attribute “global cooling” to volcanism. That last burp out of Iceland
    erased all the feel good “eco buggy” guilt trip in less than one day.( yet spewed every element in the book for over a month.)
    Never mind all the other volcanos that have been active.
    So Brad,, what’s with the “selective protection”? It seems it’s just fine to fry some endangered birds, ( with a permit even!!) But an armed response for turtles? ( Have yet to find a cow on turtle murder spree)
    Right here at home, the Delta Smelt is more important than our food supply.
    Great reasoning….

    Like

  4. Walt Avatar

    Since this Bundy situation is about gov. over-reach, I found something in an unrelated story that adds fuel to that fire.
    This is from a story about profiling Colorado cars in an another state.
    Which opens a whole new can of worms.
    “Under federal law, an officer may stop a vehicle as long as he has probable cause to believe that a traffic violation occurred, even if his subjective intent is to seek evidence of drug possession for which he lacks probable cause,” Bederow said. Still, he said, “an officer still violates the Fourth Amendment if his subsequent actions are unreasonable.”
    The poor SOB got hauled to the pokey just for being from CO. Government “over-reach”? ( But the cops “just KNEW” he had to have “something” illegal…. but he didn’t…)
    The local pot crowd has been griping about “over zealous” government for how long? ” It’s just a harmless plant!,,Dude,,!” But it’s OK when it’s a cow poke getting screwed.
    Don’t forget. The Ca. government was allowed to “take” our 2ND Amendment right to OPEN CARRY a sidearm, even UNLOADED. Now they are well on the way for long guns as well.
    Nope,, it’s not just the FEDS we need to worry about.
    LIBS can kiss the Senate Goodbye, and Reid knows it. He’s out to do as much harm and damage as possible before Nov. If that means starting a civil war, so be it.

    Like

  5. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Walt, DHS/DEA has been subjecting pilots to search with the ‘probable cause’ often being nothing more than flying from California under VFR without a VFR flight plan, which is the majority of VFR flights and perfectly legal. As of last month, the AOPA had “received nearly 50 reports of stops of general aviation aircraft made without a warrant, probable cause, or reasonable suspicion that illegal activity was taking place. Some of those stops involved officers with drawn weapons and dogs, and many resulted in aircraft being searched and passengers and pilots being questioned or detained.”
    One stop’s probable cause was flying West from California without a VFR flight plan being activated (which is both legal and very common), and I should note Larry Gaines is a stand up guy who I’ve exchanged correspondence over the last few years. They kept asking him variations on “may we search your airplane” until he cracked and consented to letting the dog sniff, not fully realizing he was consenting to a search.
    http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/05/annals-of-the-security-state-more-airplane-stories/276018/
    Why do they do it? Because they can.

    Like

  6. Walt Avatar

    Instances of gov. over reach are so numerous and common, they hardly make the news anymore. Remember how Lefty’s went insane when the Patriot act first came to be? Bush was their own super Villon. Yet “O” and Co. have taken that to use against the American people instead of the terrorists for which it was made for.
    We pretty much have a “Vladimir Putin” of color running the show on U.S. soil.
    With that,, Happy Easter. Even to the non believers.

    Like

  7. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Walt, Brad has a point. The turtle habitat/solar farm is 200 miles from The Brady Bunch. So, we got to toss Harry Reid’s rump ranger boy out of the equation.
    I do worry endlessly about all the documented reports of solar farms in the desert frying birds and even worse, screwing up their internal navigation devices. Birds are going crazy, crazy than a hoot owl I say. They are now flying off course and die a horrible death around them green mean solar machine farms. Heck,our beloved fowl of the air are acting crazier than road lizards. Not to mention the desert tortoise and various bush rats watching their habitat destroyed. If we can put a stop to the Shredded Tweet wind turbines chewing up our few surviving predators of the sky, then we surely can put a stop to solar farms turning our feathered friends into Crispy Critters.
    Definitely a good reason to stand on the overpass if I ever heard one. The time is ripe. Just look how the Possum Posse gathered on the overpass and in the court room seeking justice for one solitary opossum. Time to unite! Stop evil corporate Chinese America from killing eagles and falcons and loons.
    Hate to be a bearer of bad news, but Hurricane Carter has passed away. I know Mr. Carter would have joined us in our stand against the BLM and saving our birds. The BLM all ready shot two bulls belonging to Brady. We must stop this senseless killing. Whats next? Shooting wild mustangs for sport? Geez, mustangs did not ask to be brought to North America, now did they? No way to treat a defenseless animal, be it mammal or fowl. Shame on Chinese-America and their bought and paid for Democrat Party. Shame.

    Like

  8. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Let’s remember one of the most cogent thoughts of Gerald Ford:”A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have.” While one of our own apologists thinks “You are all worked up into a lather over some desert scrub lands. The Fed is changing the land use from ag to industrial scale power generation. Bye, bye Bundy, hello construction jobs, employment, energy production… I don’t give much of a hoot about some goomba graveyard outside of Vegas.”
    … he is missing the point that it shouldn’t be in the power of the Department of the Interior to decide to ruin 53 cattle businesses (to accept Russ’ figures) whether goombas or not (lovely dehumanizing term there, Brad) in order to have a place to put some tortoises displaced by a solar generation plant, in an underhanded way.

    Like

  9. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    “… it shouldn’t be in the power of the Department of the Interior …”
    And I want a pony.
    Now stomp you feet like a bunch of babies and say after me. “I want a pony.”
    The FACT it it has always been in the power of the Department of Interior to decide how public lands are used. It is an enumerated power in the Constitution, upheld in the courts, and has been the law of the west for 150 years.
    The case made here has not one CONSTITUTIONAL leg to stand on, which just goes to show you, when people decide to make their name on being “Constitionalists” and then can’t read the goddam Constitution, they are the ones send the country to hell in a hand-basket.

    Like

  10. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    I say again, “Constitutionalists” Ha!

    Like

  11. George Rebane Avatar

    What the progressives don’t want to even acknowledge is that there are Americans of good will who do agree that the Constitution’s Art 4, Sec 3, Clause 2
    “The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.”
    construed nothing to allow the federal government to retain title to and control of lands after such lands had been divided into the several states. That is the point of opposing the federal usurpation referred to herein. By stubbornly continuing to cite an obviously misconstrued law from the court decisions handed down over the years is the same as arguments made against the Civil Rights Act and Women’s Suffrage before they became law. The opponents of both were full of themselves claiming that the existing Constitution and US Code fully supported ‘separate but equal’ and denied voting suffrage to women. It has always been those who had the courage to point out the injustice of existing laws who have dared forge progress in our social order.
    To teach that codified law is indelibly chiseled in stone and should not be opposed regardless the circumstances hearkens back to the same justifications used by those scoundrels who followed ‘legal orders’ and committed perfectly ‘legal’ atrocities against their fellow countrymen. That the Left is the champion of such social code of behavior is another one of their many hypocrisies which strikes fear into the heart of the rest of us should they get complete control of the state and again walk the dreadful path of their collectivist forebears.

    Like

  12. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Just last week there was a group of western Congressmen discussing a bill to remand the lands within the borders of a state yo the state. One can read Frisch’s words as perhaps a old way to place mark the ownership of these lands but now we have a movement to return states rights under Amendments 9 and 10. As we see the world moving towards smaller countries, the US Feds must see that a state needs to be in charge of its own territory. The Commerce Clause abuse has hopefully ended and we may start seeing a removal of all those federal alpha bet soup regulators from our property.

    Like

  13. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    “…make all needful rules…” has been consistently interpreted to mean just what it says, Congress makes the rules. Congress made the rules that govern the management of or disposal of federal lands.
    I love how conservatives try to wrap themselves in the positive light of opposing segregation and gender discrimination to try to prove a point. First, it was conservatives, in the democratic party (and later the republican party after the big switch of the southern strategy) who have consistently resisted voting rights and civil rights. It was conservatives in both parties who where the primary opponent of women’s suffrage. Who opposed the equal rights amendment?
    It is conservatives who choose today to fight for the rights of a guy who has not paid his rent for 21 years, but wants to restrict voting rights across the country. If conservatives cared about the individual rights of everyone they would be fighting for equality in marriage laws. Or they would be incensed that someone would shoot a kid walking home from the store or who texts in a movie theater and gets shot dead based on ‘stand your ground.” Arn’t those injustices? The truth is today conservatives pick and choose whose rights they are going to stand up for, and it speaks volumes that you are standing for a guy who openly calls for people to show up with guns instead of everyone else who might need your help.
    By the way I don’t see our local conservatives standing with the property rights of landowners who want to grow marijuana, which is a legal substance for medicinal purposes in California. Why so silent on that locally?
    So don’t tell me you are the crusaders for individual rights, you are only the crusaders for the individual rights of those whom you like.
    No where did I say ‘law’ cannot change, I said we have law, and there is a remedy, if you chose to use it, go to Congress, who is empowered to change the law, and do so. Then we can have a rational debate about the appropriate use of federal lands.
    By the way, what about the rights of all the other 16,000 ranchers who are following the law, and paying federal grazing fees? Are they not put at a competitive disadvantage by Mr. Bundy? I thought libertarians stood for the fair enforcement of contracts to ensure a level playing field. Or has that principle of libertarian thought been thrown out with the bathwater to rally around a law breaker?
    I’ll tell you what makes me frightened, children showing up to an art show with weapons, to prove some arcane point that pre-teenagers have a ‘right to carry’.
    The hypocrisy of your position is pretty obvious to the impartial reader, and you can’t cloak yourselves in civil rights or women’s rights to avoid the point. No one with a brain is being fooled.

    Like

  14. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Frisch is at it again. What a bore.

    Like

  15. fish Avatar
    fish

    WOW….That’s right Steve let it out! All the bad things…..!
    Jeez……concede that the guy may have a point on one land use issue and he goes full “Inherit the Wind” on the thread!
    Stevie….you need a valium??

    Like

  16. Walt Avatar

    Wow.. a Progressive sighting the Constitution? ( In a ” Bill of negative liberty’s” kind of way.)
    If you don’t exercise your 2ND Amendment rights, you don’t know what your missing. The family came by, and after dinner, we retired to the backyard range.
    My shirt tail Son-in-law, forgot how fun some trigger time is.
    500 rounds latter, and not a soda can, plastic bottle, over ripe fruit, or teddy bears left to be found, the thought of buying a gun of his own is well seated. Hopefully this will become a regular “family time”.
    Gunfire on a regular basis is a great crime deterrent.
    As for what’s going on at the Bundy ranch, it’s not playing well for LIBS nation wide. Even the low info voters are getting wind of this. That’s not good for LIBS. The less info from “unapproved” sources the better.
    The Internet has become their downfall. ( Ask Bill Clinton)
    The Left is done in Nov. and they know it. ( Speaking of feet stomping, and wanting a pony,,, Would you like that in Unicorn?)

    Like

  17. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Yeah well Walt I think I am citing the Constitution, and I have done my share of target practice.
    Bundy is making you guys look really bad. But I like that.

    Like

  18. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    No Steve, Bundy is a true American patriot, those guys you love to hate. He is a simple rancher, supplying the beef you had last night along with your tofu. You could care less about the Constitution as you have proved over and over here. You are the typical liberal. When it suits you you name a couple of Amendments to show everyone how smart you think you are. Your target practice is with a ripe plum.
    The Constitution does not say anything about my government giving non-profits that do political work a tax write off. After AB32 and Prop 23, I fully expected you to cite a Amendment granting my money to you. Where is that? So, don’t speak to us of the Constitution, it only suits you if there is a buck in it for you. There are too many non profit pimps out there.

    Like

  19. Walt Avatar

    OUCH!… That might leave a mark….

    Like

  20. Walt Avatar

    Now back to business.. This may explain it a little better to the low info Lefty. ( MSNBC loyalists) This tells it pretty good.
    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/376053/united-states-swat-john-fund

    Like

  21. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    I can always tell when Todd is bested, he goes for the irrelevant and personal; and since he is always bested….well, what can I say….must be sad going through life that stupid.
    Nighty, night little Toddy, tomorrow we’ll take you to the park!

    Like

  22. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    I can see the Fed deeding all federal lands (that don’t have some type of national security installations on them) to the states.
    That way, if Nevada, for example, wanted to promote ranching more than industry, Nevada would be the one to decide, not the Fed.
    However, in states that have a state income tax, I foresee taxes going up due to increased costs of administering those lands.
    So, I wonder what difference would make to have the Fed vs. the state own these “public” lands.

    Like

  23. fish Avatar
    fish

    However, in states that have a state income tax, I foresee taxes going up due to increased costs of administering those lands.
    So, I wonder what difference would make to have the Fed vs. the state own these “public” lands.

    One less layer of bureaucracy to contend with when making decisions regarding their use.

    Like

  24. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “I can always tell when Todd is bested, he goes for the irrelevant and personal; and since he is always bested….well, what can I say….must be sad going through life that stupid.
    Nighty, night little Toddy, tomorrow we’ll take you to the park!”
    -Frisch 10:34PM
    I can always tell when Frisch is bested, he goes for the irrelevant and personal; and since he is often bested….well, what can I say….must be sad going through life that clueless. Hint: Steve, if you think someone is being irrelevant and personal, maybe meeting that with irrelevant and snotty ad hominems is not the most adult response.
    I gather there was a typepad snafu last night, with a number of posts apparently lost after Frisch’s 10:34. Gone forever?

    Like

  25. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Sorry to say Frisch, but you are too easy to best anymore. Greg wipes the floor with you better than anyone else. He is just plain smarter than you. Me, I am just a humble fellow from the backwoods of Nevada County. Raised by two rabbts and a Robin Red Breast. Just a simple guy. And I still defeated your intellectual limts. Too funny. Nighty nite SteveF.

    Like

  26. Walt Avatar

    Maybe Steve can come up with some facts. ( I’ll make this real simple)
    You have claimed ( as most LIBS have) that Mr. Bundy owes close to a million bucks.
    Find proof of that. ( official proof.. Not MSNBC “proof”) When this first broke, it was said to be 300 grand. If you don’t send a bill, you can’t claim nonpayment.
    So How bout that official count of euthanized endangered tortoises? 1000 has been the word. Now isn’t that special? I’m sure the number snuffed under BLM tires in this endeavor, will bubble to the top soon enough.
    Since the FEDS were flexing their mussels over ” FED LAW”,, they could have slid on over to Denver and rounded up that stoned herd of FED law breaking hippys. ” HAY,,, The law is the law”. At least any standoff would have been kept to a minimum.
    A trail of PB&J sandwiches to a holding pen would have worked beyond belief.

    Like

  27. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Here’s an interesting claim…
    “The Bureau of Land Management has suffered a huge black eye this week because of their response to the Bundy situation. Perhaps though, there is a reason the BLM chose force over the courts.
    In an exclusive interview with Benswann.com, Montana cattle rancher Todd Devlin says the BLM is now considering new ways of dealing with the Cliven Bundy situation. Devlin is not just a Montana cattle rancher but is also a County Commissioner in Prairie County, Montana and he has worked with the Department of Interior, having taught workshops for the agency in the past. On Monday, Devlin reached out to his contacts in the Department of the Interior to find out why the Bureau of Land Management has refused to work with Bundy rather than simply attempting to run over him.
    Among the questions Devlin asked of the BLM: “Is it possible that this guy (Cliven Bundy) has prescriptive rights?”
    The response from top officials at the BLM: “We are worried that he might and he might use that defense.”

    http://www.shiftfrequency.com/ben-swann-michael-lotfi-prescriptive-rights-a-constitutional-perspective-on-the-bundy-ranch-crisis/
    I’ve not dug into the bona fides, maybe Sherlock Frisch would like to take that one on.

    Like

  28. Walt Avatar

    ” Dirty Harry” doesn’t fit anymore. George “Harry” Custer seems more appropriate
    these days, and the BLM boys is his 7TH Cav.
    Smarter people than me have said Reid has opened himself up to slander liability
    for leaving the safety of the Sen. floor to publically call groups and individual
    people nasty names. ( Seems it fine to slander INSIDE the Capital… Got me on that one.) But a LIB news interview opens a whole new set of doors. Or so I’ve heard.
    It may take a while for news of any court action against this. If I had made it there, and was part of the group,, HELL YES I would test that theory.
    At the least, ethics violations investigations are in order here. But since Progressive LIBS have no ethics to start with, not much will happen.
    But “Snowman” Sharpton is still walking the streets. ( and owes more money to the man than Bundy.)

    Like

  29. Walt Avatar

    Off topic (sorta) But law enforcement used against “anti government” people again.
    This time it’s just Common Core…
    “at West Side Elementary School — a police officer barred the Finneys from setting foot on school property.
    If the kids weren’t going to take the tests, their presence at school was a “kind of trespassing thing,” according to the officer.
    And a cop there all day to make sure those TRESPASSERS didn’t set foot on government soil.
    Maybe Steve and friends would like to see our county have building dept employees at every home improvement store to make sure you have a permit to do whatever your buying “those materials” for.
    Would that be enough government intrusion? Just give them time.. Look at the revenue
    just by enforcing the permit laws… What’s the harm?,, Right??
    Just a hint of Lefty Utopia for the likes of Steve to salivate over.

    Like

  30. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Regarding grazing rights on Federal lands… a recent Federal case in Nevada:
    “Chief Judge Robert C. Jones of the Federal District Court of Nevada found in favor of Hage concerning water rights, grazing rights and all but two livestock trespass charges in United States vs. Wayne Hage (2013).[1][2]
    Judge Jones found:[3]
    Congress prescribed grazing rights on federal lands were to be granted based on a rancher’s ownership of water rights established under local law and custom.[3]
    Hage has a right of access to put his livestock water rights to beneficial use, therefore the livestock could not be found in trespass.[3] [Within one half mile of water rights][1]
    USFS employee Steve Williams was found in contempt of court and guilty of witness intimidation.[2][1][4]
    Tonopah BLM manager Tom Seley as found in contempt of court and guilty of witness intimidation.[2][1][4]
    Williams and Seley were held personally liable for damages with fines exceeding $33,000.[3]
    The Hage’s were found guilty of only two minor trespass violations and were fined $165.88[1]
    Regional Forester Harv Forsgren was excluded from testifying at trial during witness credibility hearing for lying to the Court.[3][4]
    Chief Judge Robert C. Jones stated at the conclusion of the case:
    “I find specifically that beginning in the late ‘70s and ‘80s, first, the Forest Service entered into a conspiracy to intentionally deprive the defendants here of their grazing rights, permit rights, preference rights.” [3][4]”

    Like

  31. Walt Avatar

    Didn’t someone say the government’s land accusations stopped a long time ago?
    I’m throwing the BS flag on that one ( even though it was known BS at the time)
    Here is a little more of the BLM exploits.
    http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/04/21/The-Eyes-of-the-BLM-are-on-Texas

    Like

  32. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    “One less layer of bureaucracy to contend with when making decisions regarding their use.” –
    So, it hardly seems worth the effort.

    Like

  33. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    “I find specifically that beginning in the late ‘70s and ‘80s, first, the Forest Service entered into a conspiracy to intentionally deprive the defendants here of their grazing rights, permit rights, preference rights.” –
    Hmm, it all started during rancher/Marlboro man/President Reagan’s term. Unless you believe the President is always 100% responsible for everything that happens during their time in office, it sounds like the BLM has been going rogue for decades. Note that the BLM has been well armed at least since the Reagan era – it is not just an Obama thing.

    Like

  34. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    You could have seen this whole thing coming two decades ago. The environmentalists and NGO environmentalism simply do not want any economic activity on BLM land. Heard than newer Nation Park Great Basin is nice. There are so many “new” parks and “new” off limits huge tracks of land I can’t keep up. Even California got another “new” National Park last year to go along with all the “new” regs erupting up from the ground from Sea to Shining Sea. Thar she blows.
    Maybe 30 years ago I read that the Feds owned 90% of Alaska, 50% of Washington State….or was that 75%? Don’t matter, Big Bro never sleeps and his appetite insatiable. Excuse me for using one of my favorite quotes again: “The man who worries about his well running dry draws water that will never quench his thirst.” Power and corrupted power of the Feds will not cease as they cannot help themselves. They will be never satisfied, ever.
    http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/21/environmentalists-pushed-bundy-ranch-standoff-over-endangered-tortoises/
    The good news is since there is an election coming in November the food police are taking a break. The thought police, however, are working overtime.

    Like

  35. fish Avatar
    fish

    “One less layer of bureaucracy to contend with when making decisions regarding their use.” –
    So, it hardly seems worth the effort.

    Maybe in Brads world it isn’t. Apparently there are some who feel that it might be an improvement.

    Like

  36. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “Unless you believe the President is always 100% responsible for everything that happens during their time in office…”
    What an inane strawman.

    Like

  37. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    I am starting to believe the environmentalists simply don’t like people. Or at least people seen outside their designated urban jungles. Mt Rushmore would never get made today. Has human faces on the mountain…..scarred and degraded for centuries hence. Not natural I tell ya.
    Imagine being upon some solidarity mountain in the Great Woods and running across another human being. Certainly would destroy the moment of bliss and tranquility. Or imagine surveying the vast expanses of the great outdoors under the purple sky of the desert at golden hour and seeing the glare off somebody’s pickup truck 20 miles away. That would kill a perfectly good woodie. There ought to be a law against people not staying put in their designed Skinner’s cages. Open space for you, but not for me.
    Yep, environmentalists don’t like people. I wonder how they can tolerate themselves.

    Like

  38. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “”…make all needful rules…” has been consistently interpreted to mean just what it says, Congress makes the rules. Congress made the rules that govern the management of or disposal of federal lands.” Frisch 5:55PM
    Yes, and apparently “Congress prescribed grazing rights on federal lands were to be granted based on a rancher’s ownership of water rights established under local law and custom”.
    By golly, maybe Bundy really does have a case, eh, Steve?
    “By the way, what about the rights of all the other 16,000 ranchers who are following the law, and paying federal grazing fees? Are they not put at a competitive disadvantage by Mr. Bundy?” -Frisch 5:55PM
    Bundy offered to pay usual and customary grazing fees to Clark County after the break, but worked within the BLM system until two decades ago when his ranch was being pressured to sell their grazing rights and to reduce the size of their herd by 90%. The other 52 ranchers getting the same treatment went out of business, a real competitive disadvantage.
    “It is conservatives who choose today to fight for the rights of a guy who has not paid his rent for 21 years, but wants to restrict voting rights across the country. If conservatives cared about the individual rights of everyone they would be fighting for equality in marriage laws. Or they would be incensed that someone would shoot a kid walking home from the store or who texts in a movie theater and gets shot dead based on ‘stand your ground.” Arn’t those injustices? The truth is today conservatives pick and choose whose rights they are going to stand up for, and it speaks volumes that you are standing for a guy who openly calls for people to show up with guns instead of everyone else who might need your help. ….So don’t tell me you are the crusaders for individual rights, you are only the crusaders for the individual rights of those whom you like.” Frisch 5:55PM
    Never has Frisch been so “projecting”. Steve, the reason a small army being sent by the FEDERAL BLM to take 1000 head of cattle belonging to a rancher is different than a kid being shot the guy whose head was being slammed onto the concrete in a supposed act of ‘whupass’ is that one is an injustice perpetrated by the government and the other is a matter for the criminal justice system to sort out, which it did.

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  39. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    “One less layer of bureaucracy to contend with when making decisions regarding their use.” –
    So, it hardly seems worth the effort.” – since you are just trading a fed bureaucracy for a state (of Jefferson?) bureaucracy.
    You can have pretty much all the BLM lands you want, Fish, as long as you pay fair market value for it.
    However, I am thinking that pretty much all the “decent” BLM land has been sold, traded, and developed. All you have left is the stuff no one can find a use for.

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  40. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    “Never has Frisch been so “projecting”.
    Nay, he is just externalizing his internalies.

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  41. fish Avatar
    fish

    You can have pretty much all the BLM lands you want, Fish, as long as you pay fair market value for it.
    However, I am thinking that pretty much all the “decent” BLM land has been sold, traded, and developed. All you have left is the stuff no one can find a use for.

    Apparently Mr. Bundy has a use for it…..and given that it’s hardly suitable for anything else it should be pretty cheap. Let’s make sure that “Greasy Harry” doesn’t get to squander the peoples property at twenty cents on the dollar like it appears that he was trying to do to line his idiot kids pockets.

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  42. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    “Unless you believe the President is always 100% responsible for everything that happens during their time in office…” –
    Not really a strawman Greg, just trying to give Reagan (and Obama) a break here.
    I hear a lot around here about leftys and envriros and how it is all because of Obama. So, I would be interested to know what you think about Reagan’ BLM in the 70’s, armed to the teeth, harassing ranchers.

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  43. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Let’s also remember the BLM “1st Amendment” zone ghetto roped off for protesters.

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  44. fish Avatar
    fish

    So, I would be interested to know what you think about Reagan’ BLM in the 70’s, armed to the teeth, harassing ranchers.
    How was the federal Bureau of Land Management in any way Ronald Reagans in the 1970’s?

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  45. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Fish, not only were they not Reagan’s (who was sworn into office in 1981), they weren’t armed to the teeth, nor were hundreds sent out to round up cattle and protesters who went off the 1st Amendment Zone plantation.
    As was reported from a court decision, “the Forest Service entered into a conspiracy to intentionally deprive the defendants here of their grazing rights, permit rights, preference rights” wasn’t done by a few platoons with machine guns. Just the garden variety “swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance” that even King George IV would recognize.

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  46. fish Avatar
    fish

    Fish, not only were they not Reagan’s (who was sworn into office in 1981), they weren’t armed to the teeth, nor were hundreds sent out to round up cattle and protesters who went off the 1st Amendment Zone plantation.
    Indeed.
    I was curious since Brad posted the comment if he was aware of these facts.

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  47. Walt Avatar

    So how bout that new land grab proposal over on the Red River?
    Now BLM wants to try this in Texas? This time it’s full blown private property
    they are after.( BLM claims Texas never had a right to deed the property into private hands.)And you think that will go over any better than the Bundy bungle?
    The resident LIBS have ignored that story like the plague.
    When it comes to Presidents who are in power when domestic trouble hits, that’s only a small part of the equation. Who has control of the House and Senate is a bigger factor. When LIBS control 2/3ds of government, and the internal workings are infested by Progressive LIB sympathizers who use their hired and appointed positions to the benefit of their party, there lies the problem. No one will be held accountable for the breaking of the public trust.
    When the Right regains power, a purging of LIBS from government employ should be employed. A review of voter registration should be the simple way. ( LIBS give a rats ass about private info obtained by government for nefarious reasons as it is….. Except when it may apply to them.)
    I recall asking for legitimate info on just what Bundy “owes” the government.
    Yet not one LIB has produced any legit proof. You would think a LIB looking to score a point would be all over that. What gives???

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  48. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Guys, your petticoats are all a flutter. Settle down. And BTW, the first “1st Amendment Zones” came out of the Bush II administration. So chill out for Christ’s sake.
    My good friend Urban Brother created a super graphic for y’all. This is a special work of art for Tozer, Fish, and Walt, good sports every one of ya: http://postimg.org/image/k5kq20qbl/
    Michael A.

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  49. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    One more funyun for y’all, especially for those who accuse some of us of having GWB-aFlutter-Disease: http://www.theonion.com/video/george-w-bush-debuts-new-paintings-of-dogs-friends,35799/

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