Rebane's Ruminations
April 2014
S M T W T F S
 12345
6789101112
13141516171819
20212223242526
27282930  

ARCHIVES


OUR LINKS


YubaNet
White House Blog
Watts Up With That?
The Union
Sierra Thread
RL “Bob” Crabb
Barry Pruett Blog

George Rebane

When tyrannies make the laws, all opponents of tyranny are then seen and treated as criminals.

The ownership and control of our public lands is a mess, both legally and constitutionally.  Save for military bases (an arguably constitutional provision), why does the federal government claim ownership – laughably in the name of ‘the public’ – of large parts of the country?  Save for preserving certain particularly scenic locales as public parks, why do states need to own land?  (I find federal ownership of land for parks and recreation to also be constitutionally unfounded.)  Yes, there are reasons for state governments to share control of ‘infrastructure land’ that contain navigable rivers, flood control dams and levees, and water reservoirs, but owning thousands of square miles of open range, mountains, and forests, the case for such has no reasonable constitutional basis.

PublicLands
(Recall the definition of ownership, you ‘own’ something only to the extent that you can dispose of it as you wish.)

Due to the Bundy Ranch gathering of citizens concerned with the jackboot behavior of various fed and state agencies, the BLM has decided to withdraw in order to regroup and replan their next assault, because they apparently expected none of what happened – e.g. consider the set aside of a little ‘First Amendment Rights’ pen for the few people who might show up to quietly protest as permitted by their betters.

I was heartened that this event finally demonstrated what can happen when citizens ‘just say NO!’, both in their courage to unambiguously state that a limit to overreach had been broached, and also by the rapid gathering of supportive citizens who were willing to take an unknown risk against militarized government units armed with machine guns, snipers, and helicopters.  I hope that this might set an inspiring example for locals all over the country to resist the next diktat that comes down from above to perfunctorily limit more of what/how/when people can do, say, wear, eat, build, travel, stay, read, watch, learn, work, recreate, worship, display, spend, receive, join, … .  If the Bundy standoff can serve as the starting point for Americans everywhere to change their recently inbred docile acceptance to one of critical examination and consideration before compliance or its rejection, then this will have been a productive milestone on the road back to liberty.  (Nevada County electeds please take note.)

As to resolving the grazing on public lands matter, I expect that the feds will be back after an appropriate media propaganda blitz that will demonize the Bundys and others who may have similar thoughts.  Here we can hope that this will raise the country’s awareness of the public lands issue, and after appropriate debate, lead to a resolution that gets the feds out of the land management business and, perhaps, shuts down a tax consuming bureaucracy.  Important and exciting times ahead.

[19apr14 update]  Contrary to the somewhat bombastic interpretations of our progressive constitutional pundits, the legitimacy of federal retention of vast tracts of western lands is being called to question by lawmakers in western states (more here).  The historical legality of such federal retention which I and a number of other observers have criticized is now coming to the attention of some of our conservative political leadership.  The bottom line is still that the feds have usurped the states’ intended rights to own and control (i.e. dispose of as they will) public lands within their borders, and a progressive judicial system has made mockery of the clear original intent of the Constitution in this matter.

Perhaps now a reasoned debate can start on the most appropriate process through which we can erase the overwhelming amount of the western red areas in the above map.  To be sure, the big government collectivists will fight tooth and nail to retain as much central control of domestic policies in Washington as possible.  America’s historical standards of liberty and self-determination demand the devolution of such central controls to the states and counties where the people live.

Posted in , , , ,

318 responses to “A Takeaway from Bundy Ranch (updated 19apr14)”

  1. Gregory Avatar

    Let us remember that it really is turtles all the way down, even with the euthanizing of the endangered critters by their ‘protectors’ because there were too many of them.
    “The part he hated was having to deal with the 2% of the population that suffered from mental illness, the crazy radicals on the right and left who threatened him with physical harm and who were willing to resort to violence for their alleged “cause.””
    -M. Anderson
    Like that guy who ranted at Debra Saunders over her support of the Bush Crime family, warning her she was being watched? Or that same guy who threatened me and my wife with the same, all for the crime of being a climate brownshirt who might otherwise be emboldened to walk down Broad Street in broad daylight?
    Sorry folks, but I’ve been in Clark County, Nevada and not keeping track of the usual ruminants. Frisch has the basics right… in that the Feds stole Bundy’s livelihood fair and square, according to law. The problem however, isn’t as cut and dried as a deadbeat refusing to pay reasonable grazing fees, as the BLM wasn’t so much administering the grazing rights as they were squeezing ranchers out of the business of grazing cattle on the lands that had been used for that purpose for over a century. This wasn’t done by an actual law passed by congress and signed by the president; just regulatory creep by the rentless tide of bureaucrats looking for things to do, eroding away at the traditional use that wasn’t in favor at the BLM. Boiling the frogs slowly, without good faith. Bundy is apparently the last of 52 ranchers in business in the area, so I’d say his take on the situation was prescient, and that there are adjacent areas where ranchers have not been run out of the business isn’t the point.
    A prominent NV politician has been saying Nebraska and Nevada became states at about the same time, with similar expectations that Federal holdings would be turned over to the states as had been promised. Nebraska is now nearly wholly owned by Nebraskans, but 7/8 of Nevada is still owned by the Feds, and that is probably the largest motivating factor; not that the BLM could take the livelihood of Clark County ranchers grazing on public lands they (and the state and county) were never given the option to buy.
    Regarding the old mess closer to home, Frisch still hasn’t come clean regarding the NH2020 community meetings the SBC “facilitated” for the NH2020 process… towards predetermined conclusions that moved NH2020 forward, in what is popularly termed a “Delphi” process. Or at least tried to move it forward.

    Like

  2. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Good points. I recall when the Germans in the 1930’s passed laws to disallow Jews from owning property and many other issues. Those were laws but Frisch would support them simply because they were “laws”. I think Bundy was using the age old liberal tactic of civil disobedience. His version of a “sit-in”. Now the goal is to bring attention to bad laws or rules isn’t it? Sure it is. So Frisch and MichaelA would probably support wholeheartedly a eco sit-in on the delta to protect the smelt but not support Bundy’s sit-in. What a bunch of lib buffoons I say. So it is simply those libbnuts here pocking their side, nothing more, nothing less.
    Greg, I forgot that NH2020 was the local attempt to foist Agenda21 on the county. So there you go MichaelA, another example as you asked for.

    Like

  3. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Thank you SteveF for making my point. Perfect. Last time we heard from Ol’ LawnOrder Steve, Mr Bundy is a scoflaw and we need the feds down there with guns and what not to bring order to the west. Because we can’t have folks thumbing their nose at the LAW. But when shown in other areas of law breaking, Ol’ Lawn Order Steve admits he couldn’t care less if they flaunt the law. Steve claims he against the border hoppers (in principle) but flat out says he couldn’t care less if there is or isn’t any sort of law enforcement at all. That is the point, Steve. Why the massive fed fire power for white conservative law breakers and a total pass for illegal, but future Obama voters? I think we already know the answer. Total hypocrisy. Harry Reid and the Chi Coms will get their crony deal and Bundy will loose, Steve. Just calm down. It’ll all be fine.

    Like

  4. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 16 April 2014 at 04:38 PM
    Scott, can you point to where I said I “couldn’t care less if there is or isn’t any sort of law enforcement at all”
    Now you are just making things up because you can’t win the argument.

    Like

  5. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 16 April 2014 at 04:33 PM
    What a moron.
    First, the Nuremberg Laws were unconstitutional under the terms of the Weimar Constitution.
    Second, the Weimar Constitution was subverted with the passage of the Reichstag Fire Decree, passage of which was unlawful since violence and intimidation were used to coerce the legislature.
    Third, the Article 48 provision rescinding civil rights was unlawful because the opposition legislators, largely the Social Democrats, were either kept from the chamber during the vote, or murdered in advance of the vote.
    Finally, Article 48 did not suspend citizenship rights in the Third Reich, thus the Nuremberg Laws were in violation of the Weimar Constitution itself. Since suspension of civil rights has essentially created a dictatorship, cases challenging the Constitutionality of the Nuremberg Laws were never heard.
    The Constitutionality of these actions was decided at the Nuremberg Trials, where Wilhelm Frick was tried, found guilty, sentenced and executed, partly for his role in violating the Weimar Constitution in passing the Nuremberg Laws.
    I repeat….you can not make your case. You are actually digging a deeper hole for your position. What a moron.

    Like

  6. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Oh, and by the way, Todd, you are so totally full of sh*t to compare the US today to Nazi Germany. There is absolutely no comparison between the legal systems. You may disagree with American jurisprudence and legislative decisions, but they were made democratically, and the solution to a law one disagrees with is to change the law.
    That is where you and Bundy are one and the same; you think your opinion, your stupid, emotional opinion, is somehow different and more entitled than any other Americans.
    That is the clearest example of anti-Americanism I can imagine.
    You are not a patriot, you are a traitor to our values.

    Like

  7. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    “Regarding the old mess closer to home, Frisch still hasn’t come clean regarding the NH2020 community meetings the SBC “facilitated” for the NH2020 process… towards predetermined conclusions that moved NH2020 forward, in what is popularly termed a “Delphi” process. Or at least tried to move it forward.”
    Here I will come come clean, you are 100% wrong. There, I am clean, and you are a lying sack of hammers.

    Like

  8. Gregory Avatar

    Frisch, if you were winning the arguments you wouldn’t be calling people names best reserved for you, Mikey and Brad.
    Barry, thanks for the Mark Levin link. I thought it one of the most reasoned on the subject to date, and I was surprised to hear he was, for a brief time, the #2 lawyer at the Dept. of the Interior.

    Like

  9. Gregory Avatar

    “and the solution to a law one disagrees with is to change the law”
    A major tool for changing a bad law is civil disobedience. In fact, if it wasn’t for jury nullification and the lubrication of the compound in question, Prohibition might still be the law of the land.

    Like

  10. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: Gregory | 16 April 2014 at 05:25 PM
    Perhaps you missed my post above on this very issue?
    Save your false civility and sensitivity about name calling for someone who is not roundly called names by almost every poster here. If you gave a damn about it you would step in when your buddies are busy vilifying those they disagree with.

    Like

  11. Gregory Avatar

    “That is where you and Bundy are one and the same; you think your opinion, your stupid, emotional opinion, is somehow different and more entitled than any other Americans.”
    Wow, is Stevie projecting today or isn’t he?

    Like

  12. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    I see the creep is back. Whenever the creep shows up, I need to leave. See ya Greg, enjoy your black hole of depravity.

    Like

  13. Gregory Avatar

    Don’t let the door hit you on the ass on your way out, Mike.
    Speaking of creeps, Mike over at Jeffie’s has been a duesy, proudly proclaiming his admiration for his bureaucratic forbears and denigrating immigrants who don’t love Big Brother federalism.

    Like

  14. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: Michael Anderson | 16 April 2014 at 05:38 PM
    You know what, I am with Michael; Todd is just stupid, Greg is a whole different animal. I am out of her too.

    Like

  15. Russ Steele Avatar

    When the argument is no going to well for the left, they exit stage left! Good by Steven and Michael.

    Like

  16. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    MichaelA has been commenting then deleting his comments on my blog, numerous times over many days. I delete them. Then he comes to my blog and calls me names. I leave some delete others. Quite a little boy there MichaelA. Steve Frisch just can’t win his argument and thus on cue, starts his name calling.
    Regarding Frisch and laws. He broke a few is my understanding based on the liens and judgements for not paying his employee taxes for some say, $250,000 in the failure of his restaurant, Passages, in Truckee. (among other things) I wonder how he would have reacted if the IRS sent in armed SWAT and held him in their scopes to collect the taxes he owed. Hey Steve, what did you do with the employees taxes you held in trust and were supposed to pay? You have never answered that.
    But, because we say a government of the people, by the people and for the people has become one against the people, we are now the bad guys. I think the left has become insane.

    Like

  17. Russ Steele Avatar

    Why did BLM try to bully Bundy? He may have prescriptive rights according an expert and the BLM agrees.

    We are Worried Cliven Bundy Might Have Prescriptive Rights & He Might Use that Defense in Court.

    http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/04/blm-worried-cliven-bundy-might-prescriptive-rights-might-use-defense-court/#3AHBkSbbTJfleh7J.99
    So what exactly are prescriptive rights? Prescriptive right to property is an easement that gives some one the right to use land owned by someone else for a particular purpose. An example is using a path through Party A’s land to get to your land; a prescriptive easement is allowed which gives the user the right to get to his land through A’s property.
    In most states, if a trespass or use of land occurs regularly for at least 5 years without the “owner” of the land taking legal action, prescriptive rights come into play. Because Bundy stopped paying his grazing fees to the BLM in 1993, but continued to use the land for over 20 years, it is possible he now has prescriptive rights to the land. That might explain why the BLM has not taken this issue to court and never bothered to file a lien against the cattle.

    It looks like BLM’s only option was to bully Bundy and he refused to be bullied. Now they have lost any leverage, as the public is very much against this type of excessive force, killing bulls in a steel pen, separating new born calves from their mothers, destroying water tanks cattle needed to stay alive, and pointing guns at families and friends without cause. They knew three days in advance the they could not sell the cows in Utah, or in Nevada. They ended up with 400 cows they could not dispose of on the market. The cost of those cows was growing by the hour. No wonder they backed down. Stupid is as stupid does.

    Like

  18. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Russ, do you condone Greg’s behavior?

    Like

  19. Gregory Avatar

    Mike, how on earth do you condone your own behavior?

    Like

  20. Gregory Avatar

    “Some bunch of fucking patriotic Americans you guys are. You think standing up for some guy who broke the law and cheated on paying his grazing fees is patriotism?”
    -Frisch 8:20
    Bundy represented himself in civil court, since the Feds can sue you into bankruptcy without having to provide you a lawyer… that’s only a right in criminal court. From the Washington Post:
    “March 1993: The Washington Post publishes a story about the federal government’s efforts to protect the desert tortoise in Nevada. Near Las Vegas, the Bureau of Land Management designated hundreds of thousands of acres of federal land for strict conservation efforts. “Among the conservation measures required,” according to the Post’s coverage, “are the elimination of livestock grazing and strict limits on off-road vehicle use in the protected tortoise habitat. Two weeks ago, the managers of the plan completed the task of purchasing grazing privileges from cattle ranchers who formerly used BLM land.”
    Many people were not impressed by the new conservation plan. “Cliven Bundy, whose family homesteaded his ranch in 1877 and who accuses the government of a ‘land grab,’ are digging in for a fight and say they will not willingly sell their grazing privileges to create another preserve.” People who use the desert to prospect for minerals and to race motorcycles and jeeps also feel shortchanged. “‘It was shoved down our throat,’ said Mark Trinko, who represents off-road vehicle users on the committee that oversees the plan.”
    Bundy has repeatedly been fined for grazing his cattle on the protected land, fines he has not paid since 1993. The Bureau of Land Management, which oversees about 800 grazing areas in Nevada, responded by revoking his permit. Bundy has not applied for a new one.”
    So it wasn’t so much grazing fees as punitive fines because he wouldn’t sell his grazing privileges or stop the grazing.
    Frisch, you’re wrong. Again.

    Like

  21. Al Avatar
    Al

    Aspiring F-MA Kamp Kommandant Frisch (please God forbid) is a spooky hateful agenda-driven snarky boastful ideologue who
    distorts our history by omission and ignorance(?) to intiminate the volk herein these pages and elsewhere.
    Do due-diligence before you believe this -fed person.
    Some examples of his scheise:
    ATF and helicoptered machine guns killed the Branch Davidians for child abuse. Not true. The ATF siege doesn’t raid for
    alleged child abuse.
    Ruby Ridge, in Boundary County (borders with Canada), Randy Weaver, was a government-entrapment victim,
    (he and his wife tried to get away from the filth) and more (see Wiki).
    Gregory is historically correct. As a member of an offical Local Sub-Committee during NH2020 General Plan, and as a
    response to an official proposal to inspect all parcels of land for environimantal constrants, a Realtor and I were joking
    that we should plant endangered species on the properties of the Delphi Technique-aided proponents as a lark and a lesson,
    and thence to turn them in to the Apparatchik. The proposed onsite parcel inspections were subsequentialy shelved.
    How about the current General Plan update schemes; what is up now, you concerned old timers, including me?

    Like

  22. Gregory Avatar

    “Gregory is historically correct. As a member of an offical Local Sub-Committee during NH2020 General Plan, and as a
    response to an official proposal to inspect all parcels of land for environimantal constrants, a Realtor and I were joking that we should transplant endangered species on the properties of the Delphi Technique-aided proponents as a lark and a lesson, and thence to turn them in to the Apparatchik.”
    Thanks for the information, whoever you are. Perhaps GR can give me a head’s up as to your identity.

    Like

  23. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Yeah, because so many of you are such cowardly shit heels that you have to post anonymously.

    Like

  24. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    “the managers of the plan completed the task of purchasing grazing privileges from cattle ranchers who formerly used BLM land.” – anyone know how much the Fed paid the ranchers for the grazing rights?
    These ranchers were not run off their own land – although, after a while they might have started thinking it was their land.

    Like

  25. Al Avatar
    Al

    Frischenhypenpower Von Uberalless, Get it from the SS NSA, you useful Quisling idiot.

    Like

  26. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Very interesting and revealing.
    “You know what, I am with Michael; Todd is just stupid, Greg is a whole different animal. I am out of her too.”
    Posted by: stevenfrisch | 16 April 2014 at 06:19 PM
    Good thing you are out of her, Mr. stevenfrisch. She is actually pretty fine once one gets past the used parts. I know, I know, you are with Michael. I truly hope Michael is OK now that you are with Michael and out of her. A match made in Heaven for sure. It is a bit surprising since I considered Michael more man that you will ever be and more women than you would ever get. Politics indeed makes strange bedfellows.

    Like

  27. Walt Avatar

    Thanks for a little vindication Russ, I mentioned prescriptive easements
    when this got started, and “someone” tosses that to the side without a thought. Hell,,, What does a ditch digger know?
    How many times has that argument won in court around here? ( plenty)

    Like

  28. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    If the Fed was billing Bundy regularly (annually) for grazing fees, it shows that they, as “landlords”, were just not getting paid by a bum tenant.
    Also, you cannot take land from the Fed through adverse possession.
    http://www.gabriellawoffice.com/?page_id=102

    Like

  29. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Croul, only about $200k of the million dollars the BLM says is owed are grazing fees. The rest is penalties and interest, essentially for the Bundy’s refusals to reduce their business to nothing like the rest of the ranchers in Clark County did.
    Nevada news outlets (including Clark County NBC affiliate’s Jon Ralston of the Ralston Report, who has been on MSNBC recently) are not giving Reid a pass for referring to Bundy supporters as being “domestic terrorists”.

    Like

  30. Walt Avatar

    But the FED can take land FROM you, Brad,
    Gov. is supposed to abide by the same rules and laws. ( key word.. “supposed”) Those same laws that apply to you and me.
    And just what land did he “take”? I don’t recall him claiming ownership.
    Did he fence off ” gov. property” and throw up no trespassing signs?
    Did he run off any other “citizens” at gun point? ( fed goons don’t count at this point.)
    As I see it, “his” cattle ( among others as it turns out) were using that land for cattle grazing LONG before it was “deemed” off limits pretty much for everything,, all because of a so-called “endangered” critter.
    That critter and cattle got along just fine for 100 years with no conflicts.
    Then the “G” men come along with a piece of paper in hand. The money at this point is a red hearing issue. If it really was about “money”, Al Sharpton
    would be in the courts as well, since he owes more than Mr. Bundy. And Al HAS money.

    Like

  31. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    Talking about averse possession here, Greg.
    But the penalties and interest also show that the Fed did not abandon the land, as Russ and Walt are implying, by not evicting him sooner.
    Anyway, he was not even a tenant, he had a permit to access the land for grazing.
    Back in the day, the Bundy family should have homesteaded it, or done something to make it legally theirs.
    Sounds like they were free ranging, back in the day.
    I got a kick out of Reid’s comments. The redneck mujahideen. What a hoot!

    Like

  32. Walt Avatar

    I recall “O” hinting at a “civilian army”.. ” As well armed and funded as “our military”..” That’s turning out to be the alphabet soup of government agencies. They ALL have SWAT teams. From the barbershop “inspectors” to the postal service. A government employee gets a badge and an automatic weapon… Instant “army”,, and funded by the gov.
    And no pesky “posse comitatus act” to abide by.

    Like

  33. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    “Talking about averse possession here, Greg”
    No, we aren’t, Brad. That’s a straw man. The Bundys are claiming an easement for grazing, not a possession. Here’s a simple explanation of the two:
    “Prescriptive easements differ from adverse possession by not requiring exclusivity.”
    Bundy is not demanding no one else graze cattle there, or not tresspass for things like prospecting or dirt biking. He just wants to let his cattle graze there like they have for over a century, and apparently intends to keep doing it. In addition, there is some evidence the BLM is concerned if they take him to court again, they will lose on a prescriptive easement argument, especially now that he’s a darling of the Right and can expect help with legal expenses. His loss on appeal to the 9th Circus was when he was representing himself, opposing BLM lawyers.

    Like

  34. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    Thanks for the clarification Greg, but, as far as taking something from the Fed – you cannot.
    “it is not possible to obtain a prescriptive easement against land held by local, state and federal government. The courts have long held that “time does not run against the King.” See also Civil Code Section 1007.”

    Like

  35. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    Brad, it isn’t a taking if simple grazing fees are paid, and Bundy paid them until the BLM started turning the screws to run him and all his neighbors out of business. Now only Bundy remains.
    $200k is the back grazing fees. I suspect the $200k would be forthcoming were Bundy granted a long term promise to allow 1000 head to graze as before, for the per head grazing price for similarly (un)productive land. The nutcase ‘the Feds have no right’ rhetoric was born out of BLM intransigence. Time to dial it back. It’s also time to start turning more of Nevada to Nevadans, more of California to Californians, in fact, more of everything to the west of the continental divide to the states that are west of the continental divide.

    Like

  36. Russ Steele Avatar

    AN INCONVENIENT RANCHER: BLM Docs Show Feds’ Solar Plan Targets Bundy for Elimination
    This is an interesting read. The issue was having a place to put the tortoise that were going to be harmed by the solar farm and had to be moved. BLM needed the areas were the Bundy cows were grazing to store the tortoises. The BLM documents actually mention the need to move Bundy.
    Read HERE, including screen captures of BLM documents, that for some reason vanished from the BLM website.

    Like

  37. Walt Avatar

    This keep getting better and better, Leftys keep working the ” there is no there,, there.” angle, yet ” More upon more” is getting dug up that says otherwise. The BLM using IRS tactics.. Who would have thought?
    Scrub pubic accessed materials at all costs.
    The facts don’t fit the excuses from the “G” man.

    Like

  38. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    You guys are such drama queens! Do you envision a hamburger shortage if Bundy goes away?
    You are all worked up into a lather over some desert scrub lands.
    The Fed is changing the land use from ag to industrial scale power generation. Bye, bye Bundy, hello construction jobs, employment, energy production.
    What happened to the goal of energy independence?
    What would have been worth fighting for would have been to save the farm land in LA and Orange Counties, for example instead of paving it over, or saving Owens Lake. I don’t give much of a hoot about some goomba graveyard outside of Vegas.
    Wanna hear about some real injustice, check out the internment of the Japanese Americans during WWII and what happened to their lands.
    Are you forgetting that this is our national security we are talking about? We are power junkies, we need all the electricity we can get. If the drought continues, we will not have water enough in our dams to power the turbines, etc.

    Like

  39. Walt Avatar

    With all the fun and games to feed the news outlets, one thing has been left in the shadows. Our food supply. Just about every food group has been
    hit by some problem. From pork to fruit and veggies. Beef? That’s for the rich foke now… Prices have gone up and less in the package. And our growing season has hardy started. Forget Ca. production. It’s toast.

    Like

  40. fish Avatar
    fish

    Jesus Brad…take it easy on the strawmen….try not to burn them all at one sitting.

    Like

  41. RL Crabb Avatar

    I always remember that scene in Soylent Green when Chuck Heston steals a chunk of beef from the dead rich guy’s apartment and he and Ed G. Robinson cook it up. Ed is old enough to remember what beef was like, and the experience of tasting it again drives him to tears.
    We’re headed in that direction. Someday you’ll run into some guy outside of McDonald’s screaming “Quarter pounders are PEOPLE!”

    Like

  42. Walt Avatar

    Brad must have attended that turtle soup party the night the turtle preserve
    ran out of other people’s money.
    BTW Brad, how about those “solar fried” birds at the other solar sites?
    Even endangered feathered friends are turning into charcoal cinders before they hit the panels. Just casualties of LIB crony capitalism. That makes it all better.

    Like

  43. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “Are you forgetting that this is our national security we are talking about? We are power junkies, we need all the electricity we can get.”
    Brad – please calm down and pay attention to facts. All solar facilities need non-solar hydrocarbon fueled facilities of equal output to be viable as a reliable source of electricity. Then there is the matter of getting the electrons to some one who will actually use them. Who pays for that? Not the folks reaping the profits of this crony deal. Obama is proudly shutting down far more kilowatts of electricity production than this solar farm will ever produce. This is not about our natl security at all. This is about a crony deal for the wealthy in which some small fry named Bundy decided to dig in his heels and gum up the works. I’m not on his side, just appalled at the folks lined up to lick Harry Reid’s boots. National Security? What kind of factual vacuum do you libs live in? The same outlay for this money pit would put solar panels on thousands of roofs and not need any backup plant or new transmission lines to give a superior ROI for electricity production. But then Harry and his cronies wouldn’t get their big pay off and that makes lefties cry at night.

    Like

  44. Gregory Avatar
    Gregory

    RL, two words… Soylent Biodiesel.
    Brad, with current extraction technologies, the US has centuries of fossil fuels available, and if shorter term crude is more to your liking, either get Obama to approve the Keystone pipeline, or elect D’s, R’s and even LIBs to the Congress to get a veto proof majority supporting it.

    Like

  45. fish Avatar
    fish

    Someday you’ll run into some guy outside of McDonald’s screaming “Quarter pounders are PEOPLE!”
    I can only hope that this happens…..it means they’ve finally switched from the laxativeburger they’re using now.
    McDonalds…..blecch!

    Like

  46. Walt Avatar

    Processed hippy as fuel? But what of the high THC content? Hippy’s have caused enough engine damage as it is…

    Like

  47. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Jeffrey Dahmer would be the clown? Too funny!

    Like

  48. Walt Avatar

    Dead link Dr.
    This one still works.
    http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/57836973-90/utah-lands-lawmakers-federal.html.csp
    Don’t forget we still have the EPA wanting control and say over every spot that will retain water as a puddle, no matter how small. Fill in that low spot that was left by a rotted tree stump, and expect a full blown raid by the Coast Guard. ( if it has to do with water, it will be their responsibility.)

    Like

  49. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    I think it is great that you going all enviro/monkey wrencher, Walt, worrying about the poor solar fried gulls and whatnot, lol! BTW, I remember you posted a while back on Icelandic earthquakes (I think). What do you think about the 8.2 in Chile, 7.5 in Mexico, and 5.1 in So. Cal? Is the Bay Area next? What has it been, 25 years since the Loma Prieta quake?
    I checked the map on the link Russ provided, and the Solar Zone is not even close to Bunkerville, NV. It is southwest of the Moapa River Rez. Bunkerville is NE of the rez.

    Like

Leave a comment