Rebane's Ruminations
April 2014
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George Rebane

When tyrannies make the laws, all opponents of tyranny are then seen and treated as criminals.

The ownership and control of our public lands is a mess, both legally and constitutionally.  Save for military bases (an arguably constitutional provision), why does the federal government claim ownership – laughably in the name of ‘the public’ – of large parts of the country?  Save for preserving certain particularly scenic locales as public parks, why do states need to own land?  (I find federal ownership of land for parks and recreation to also be constitutionally unfounded.)  Yes, there are reasons for state governments to share control of ‘infrastructure land’ that contain navigable rivers, flood control dams and levees, and water reservoirs, but owning thousands of square miles of open range, mountains, and forests, the case for such has no reasonable constitutional basis.

PublicLands
(Recall the definition of ownership, you ‘own’ something only to the extent that you can dispose of it as you wish.)

Due to the Bundy Ranch gathering of citizens concerned with the jackboot behavior of various fed and state agencies, the BLM has decided to withdraw in order to regroup and replan their next assault, because they apparently expected none of what happened – e.g. consider the set aside of a little ‘First Amendment Rights’ pen for the few people who might show up to quietly protest as permitted by their betters.

I was heartened that this event finally demonstrated what can happen when citizens ‘just say NO!’, both in their courage to unambiguously state that a limit to overreach had been broached, and also by the rapid gathering of supportive citizens who were willing to take an unknown risk against militarized government units armed with machine guns, snipers, and helicopters.  I hope that this might set an inspiring example for locals all over the country to resist the next diktat that comes down from above to perfunctorily limit more of what/how/when people can do, say, wear, eat, build, travel, stay, read, watch, learn, work, recreate, worship, display, spend, receive, join, … .  If the Bundy standoff can serve as the starting point for Americans everywhere to change their recently inbred docile acceptance to one of critical examination and consideration before compliance or its rejection, then this will have been a productive milestone on the road back to liberty.  (Nevada County electeds please take note.)

As to resolving the grazing on public lands matter, I expect that the feds will be back after an appropriate media propaganda blitz that will demonize the Bundys and others who may have similar thoughts.  Here we can hope that this will raise the country’s awareness of the public lands issue, and after appropriate debate, lead to a resolution that gets the feds out of the land management business and, perhaps, shuts down a tax consuming bureaucracy.  Important and exciting times ahead.

[19apr14 update]  Contrary to the somewhat bombastic interpretations of our progressive constitutional pundits, the legitimacy of federal retention of vast tracts of western lands is being called to question by lawmakers in western states (more here).  The historical legality of such federal retention which I and a number of other observers have criticized is now coming to the attention of some of our conservative political leadership.  The bottom line is still that the feds have usurped the states’ intended rights to own and control (i.e. dispose of as they will) public lands within their borders, and a progressive judicial system has made mockery of the clear original intent of the Constitution in this matter.

Perhaps now a reasoned debate can start on the most appropriate process through which we can erase the overwhelming amount of the western red areas in the above map.  To be sure, the big government collectivists will fight tooth and nail to retain as much central control of domestic policies in Washington as possible.  America’s historical standards of liberty and self-determination demand the devolution of such central controls to the states and counties where the people live.

Posted in , , , ,

318 responses to “A Takeaway from Bundy Ranch (updated 19apr14)”

  1. Walt Avatar

    I don’t know where this was first found, or the person that posted it ,wrote it.
    PRICLESS non the less.
    Kevin
    “twas the night before tax day and all through the house
    the deductions being counted as we listen to Strauss
    the liberals were joyous and toasted in the air
    with the hopes that uncle Sam would soon make it fair
    the progressives were restless all smug in their beds
    while visions of ebt cards danced in their heads
    and mooch in her garden and Barry in the trap
    the taxpayers know they got a bad rap
    when out on the mall there arose such a fury
    Barry sprang from his alinsky book just to inquiry
    away out the window there crashed with a flash
    tore off his footie pajamas and threw out dana bash
    the taxpayers gathered as vast as fallen snow
    gave credence to the fury that burned down below
    when what to my wonder did finally appear
    a leader not corrupt and the insiders fear
    and who could it be that brought on this rouse
    could only be the freshman senator. Ted Cruz
    with Paul and Walker the task is not small
    let’s take back this country once and for all
    to the top of the senate to the top of the house
    thrash away, dash away the corrupt sucking louse
    as the thieves tremble at the hurricane before them
    the patriots stare down with every right they condemn
    an then come November we will finally have proof
    that this country can be saved we will raise the roof
    so get out there one and get out there all
    let your voices be heard loudly not small
    this is the country that’s been bestowed upon us
    with responsibility, integrity and deep trust
    spring from you chair and give your kids a chance
    to have a life like yours and your parents
    these leaders fight there’s no fight too small
    time to do away with the corrupt politicians, every one of them. all”

    Like

  2. Barry Pruett Avatar

    Steve: I am not disagreeing with you. Bundy broke the law (period). I am simply saying that sometimes it takes someone challenging authority to bring attention to injustice and an out of control government. Rosa Parks broke the law too…and no I am not equating Rosa Parks to Cliven Bundy…I am pointing out that illegal does not necessarily mean wrong. Was Parks’ illegal activity right or wrong? History says (and I wholeheartedly agree), she was right to break the law. It takes controversy in the USA to bring things to people’s attention…that is what Bundy is doing…”shining a light” as my esteemed colleague would say.

    Like

  3. fish Avatar
    fish

    Rosa Parks broke the law too…and no I am not equating Rosa Parks to Cliven Bundy…
    I equated Rosa Parks to Mr. Bundy Barry…..it was glossed over! Bundy is in violation of the law, that is certain…..I wonder what set him off 20 years ago and caused him to take on this implacable foe and vile accompanying cheerleaders!?

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  4. Walt Avatar

    Holder “broke the law” and international law at that… Yet he “walked away” from
    that. Not all of us can hide behind Presidential skirts.
    The DOJ had a restraining order against it raiding a gun shop. They ignored that court order and seized what they wanted. ” Court orders? They don’t apply to us.” ” Go ahead…. Sue us…”
    There are laws on the books where government is required to turn over documents
    through the freedom of info act,, but don’t. Sounds like government “breaks the law” all the time. Who get’s held accountable there? ( uh,,, no one…)
    Back in the good ol’ NH2020 days local gov. goons went trespassing for their “surveys”. No warrants, just jump the fence and see what they could find to restrict the use of any property. From Elderberry bushes to vernal pools.
    And before Steve jumps up with the denials of that even happening, I caught some red handed ( or “green” if you prefer)on my land. Self appointed “eco police”? or deputized “friends” of Dizzy Izzy?
    Amazing with all the guns in this County, not one “county” trespasser wound up on a slab.
    Where “law breaking” is concerned “government” needs to get it’s own house in order. It seems to be the worst offender of “dissing” the law, since no one will hold them accountable.
    Speaking of flagrant breaking of the law because ” it just ain’t right”
    I give you the pot people. ” Law or no law… I’M GROW’N!!!”
    ( and some even grow of FED LAND..)
    Let’s have some more “stoned” throwing at Mr. Bundy. He has taken better care of that land than the Gov. ever did. He can oversee my “share” of that public land.

    Like

  5. Bonnie McGuire Avatar

    Here’s the latest concerning the Bundy family that CDA posted on Facebook.
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/04/annabelle-bamforth/feds-planning-armed-assault-on-bundy-home/
    Interesting and a little scary for all involved. Hope all goes well and good will prevail.

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  6. Walt Avatar

    Bonnie.. I read your story.. Hat’s off to you and your family.
    Some of my past employers have suffered the same fate.

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  7. fish Avatar
    fish

    Oh my Associate Bob is still suffering the vapors……egged on as always by his sycophantic coterie.
    Editor’s note: As regular readers know, our community has been subjected to this hysteria.
    And there you have it….Jeffys admission that he suffers from and inflicts his particular flavor of hysteria upon the surrounding community.
    http://tinyurl.com/community-jeffy

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  8. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Boy this really is the story that keeps on giving. One has to love it when a hero of the ‘movement’ lives by the adage, “women and children first.”
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/15/richard-mack-_n_5154606.html

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  9. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Aren’t you a fan like Scrooge of thinning out the planet’s population? I could have sworn you are a fan of abortion. Too funny.

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  10. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Steve – you need to have an adult help you out here.
    I never said anything about shooting people in the head.
    You just made that up. Then you fabricated a quote.
    “You asked, “What is SteveF’s response to that sort of law breaking [throwing rocks] that he claims he is against?”
    The ‘quote’ is a mangled cut and paste that is not accurate.
    The ‘law breaking’ I referred to was border hopping. Not rock throwing.
    My point there is why doesn’t the fed bring the same kind of enforcement to the border that they brought to the BLM land against a white conservative citizen?
    When border hoppers start throwing rocks, the fed agents are told to run away. Would the fed agents in Nevada just run away if the white, conservative protesters started throwing rocks?
    Another question to answer now is why did the feds take so long to take action against Bundy? It turns out they didn’t really care until the crony ‘green’ deal Reid set up needed the land. Good to see the lefties here are all on the side of the folks they claim to be against.
    In the end, Bundy will loose and Reid will get his way I’m sure. The illegals will continue to flood into our country. Once Bundy is put in irons, we can all breathe easier.

    Like

  11. fish Avatar
    fish

    It’s brilliant Steve….a move worthy of a Chicago community organizer.

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  12. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Oh for Christ’s sake Scott you are just as dense as Todd.
    You referenced people at the border throwing rocks. I knew what law breaking you were referring to, I inserted the parenthetical for the benefit of the readers. And I never said you said anything about shooting people in the head, its was a reference to Ruby Ridge..
    My main point still seems to escape all of you bone heads…the FEDS did the right thing…they de-escalated the situation when the full panoply of right wing wacko assholes like Richard Mack, Ted Nugent and the Duck dynasty dude showed up …along with a couple of hundred neo-nazi militia with automatic weapons.
    Some bunch of fucking patriotic Americans you guys are. You think standing up for some guy who broke the law and cheated on paying his grazing fees is patriotism?
    The issue is not the border, or abortion, or who once read rules for radicals, or any of the other derivative bullshit you are bringing into it.
    I notice not one of you can actually counter the clear and convincing legal case made in the opening comment here.
    Constitutionalists…HA!

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  13. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Scott, I think you got the dunce Steve to twitch. Good job. He is pro abortion, kill the babies, arrest the cattlemen. What a guy.

    Like

  14. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Todd, please stop typing. Every time you do, you are exposing your extremities.
    You advocate against law and order. And you were once a county supervisor? How can this be possible?!?
    Stand down, crazy dude Todd Juvinall. Perhaps you are suffering from PTSD. I will pray for you.

    Like

  15. Barry Pruett Avatar

    Interesting listening from the former number two lawyer at Dept of Interior. http://fb.me/3wOKZGUII

    Like

  16. fish Avatar
    fish

    A little more remote debate from Associate Bobs……..
    The Rebane Ruminations and Sierra Dragon’s Breath websites have a lot of explaining to do.
    Hardly.
    Say what you want about the “opposing sides” at least Frisch refrains from the constant appeals to emotion that we see from every other resident of jeffys rabbit warren.
    Way to work RACISM into the argument Michael. After all, it is the the “go to” lefty trump card, the Swiss Army Knife of complaint, the one you play if it’s early and you haven’t collected your thoughts yet.
    I know you can’t help yourself, it’s what you do!
    Sorry your ancestor couldn’t get a cup of coffee in the towns he was ostensibly sent to serve, mayhap he was a thuggish ham fisted idiot like Bill Pogue. You guys are winning every legal argument and still losing the war…..!
    PS: You may have gone straight to the comment section and not seen it but jeffy breathlessly posted an excerpt from Heidi “All Dissent is Hate Speech” Beirich as if it was the revealed wisdom of heaven. Then again maybe it’s another SPLC pledge drive and Morris Dees needs a new Bentley.
    Anyway…for your edification.

    Like

  17. fish Avatar
    fish

    My main point still seems to escape all of you bone heads…the FEDS did the right thing…they de-escalated the situation when the full panoply of right wing wacko assholes like Richard Mack, Ted Nugent and the Duck dynasty dude showed up …along with a couple of hundred neo-nazi militia with automatic weapons.
    Wow…the Duck Dynasty guys were there? I don’t watch the show but my kids like it…..why didn’t you tell me sooner…I might have gone? Walt and I could have carpooled.
    I’d also like to know how you decided the participants were, “…neo-nazi militia with automatic weapons.”.
    Is that legit or are you channeling DailyKos again?

    Like

  18. fish Avatar
    fish

    Finally got to hear it Barry…..thanks.
    Here’s a little reinforcement from an “American Treasure”…..(anyone want to hazard to guess why an our American Treasure has an English accent)?
    http://www.steynonline.com/6266/the-plains-of-bureaustan

    Like

  19. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    So I listend to the Mark levin piece when you posted it earlier today and the big problem with it is that it misrepresents both the process for listing the desert tortoise and the timeline of the case.
    The process to list the tortoise was not ‘unilateral’. The process is actually pretty complex, with multiple opportunities for both local intervention and congressional or judicial action.
    The species must first be identified as potentially endangered, which is done through submission of a petition for listing. Federal agencies review that submission and determine whether or not the submission warrants action, based on the scientific evidence presented on it qualification as an endangered species. Findings by the agency of merit or lack thereof must be published.
    If the petition is found to have ‘substantial merit’ the agency then does a roughly one year review of all relevant scientific data. This is what is known as a ‘status review’. While all of this is going on a parallel process is used to determine if there are conservation methods short of listing that can be used to protect the species. These are done through a process called ‘status surveys”. At the end of the status review process, if the status surveys fail to identify conservation methods short of listing, and if the listing is determined to be warranted (into which a number of factors go including whether there is a reasonable expectation that listing and protection can save the species, which is not a foregone conclusion) the official listing process begins. The vast majority (more than 90%) of proposed listing fall out of the process at this phase and the species is placed on a ‘candidate’ list for future review.
    All of the above activities are subject to federal rules under the Freedom of Information Act, and documents, studies and strategies are made public.
    If the critter makes it this far it is officially ‘listed’ and the next step is that federal agencies propose a conservation strategy for the species and publish (in the federal register) a proposed rule. That rule has a set comment period during which anyone contesting the scientific data, conservation strategy or the listing of the species, may weigh in and submit documents. Those document become a part of the public record. All comments and data must be reviewed, including independent peer review by at least three outside entities, and specifically responded to. If requested, there is a hearing on the listing. Following that a decision is made to list or not list. If the decision is made to list the decision must be posted in the federal register.
    At this point anyone choosing to litigate the decision has 30 days to take action. If not, the species is listed. If action is taken the whole process goes to the courts.
    This entire process was established by the Congress of the United States, and upheld in federal court consistently since being established after the passage of the Endangered Species Act.
    This process began in Nevada concerning the desert tortoise more than 6 years before the first legal action was taken in 1993 restricting Mr. Bundy’s grazing access. 21 years have passed since that first court action was taken against Mr. Bundy and the car has been heard there times since then.
    There is absolutely nothing ‘arbitrary and capricious’ about the decision, or the actions taken to enforce the court orders, as Mark levin implies when he says the federal government acted ‘unilaterally’.

    Like

  20. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Oops..
    “21 years have passed since that first court action was taken against Mr. Bundy and the case has been heard three times since then.”

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  21. fish Avatar
    fish

    Is the Tortoise still endangered or threatened? Are they negatively impacted by the presence of cattle?

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  22. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Still ducking the issue, Steve. Old LawnOrder Steve. Bundy bad – woof woof grrrr – sic em. Send in snipers. Standard practice. Just like the lib crooks that steal millions. Right.
    Meanwhile – and this is just one of many examples –
    http://articles.philly.com/2014-04-15/news/49159231_1_order-executive-director-ice-holds#OwVXK5slCe7So2Qw.99
    We have highly selective law enforcement based on skin color and politics. Steve can only present straw man arguments and make up quotes.
    Care to address the issue, Steve? Steve? Helloooo?

    Like

  23. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    Walt – you bring up a good example with your Bundy/ pot comparison.
    What does the government do when cowboys or hippies break the law and start using “our” public lands to graze cattle or grow pot illegally – they bring out the helicopters and start cracking down and confiscating (pot, or cattle).
    I don’t see why you are so worked up about it.
    But, what have the pro-pot people done? Yes, they got together to pass initiatives and laws to change things. Can’t say the same thing about Bundy.
    Another thing that gets me about Bundy – he seems to think all that land is his. Earth to Bundy: that desert “belongs” to “me” also. Maybe I don’t want to have to have to “tip toe through the cow turds”, lol!

    Like

  24. fish Avatar
    fish

    Another thing that gets me about Bundy – he seems to think all that land is his. Earth to Bundy: that desert “belongs” to “me” also. Maybe I don’t want to have to have to “tip toe through the cow turds”, lol!
    Well Brad his family has been allowed to work that land for a very long time but this is the first time I can recall you mentioning concern over “cow turds”….just watch where you walk….and not just because of cow shit, I hear there’s a protected Tortoise around too.
    Hey, you managed to get the “lol” in….well played sir.

    Like

  25. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: Walt | 15 April 2014 at 04:02 PM
    “Back in the good ol’ NH2020 days local gov. goons went trespassing for their “surveys”. No warrants, just jump the fence and see what they could find to restrict the use of any property. From Elderberry bushes to vernal pools.
    And before Steve jumps up with the denials of that even happening, I caught some red handed ( or “green” if you prefer)on my land. ”
    Just have to correct the record here. Although I was not directly involved in managing NH2020, I did have a role reviewing its process and budget. There was no budget in the process for any independent field surveys of species and habitat. The data used was aggregated from existing sources and field reviewed based on aerial photography and the application of Geographic Information Systems. Some ground truthing of data did occur, to calibrate and check GIS accuracy, but only on public property. There is actually no reason to do this on private property since ground truthing is really only a tiny sample of geographic information.
    I think it is shame that Walt did not call the Sheriff’s Office and have these people arrested. Walt, does an arrest record or complaint exist? Do you have any documented proof?
    Walt may believe this happened, he may even have had trespassers, they may even been doing surveying for some entity but they were not authorized as county employees, nor county contractors, nor do I believe they were involved in any way with NH 2020.
    The reason I do not believe this to be the case is threefold: 1) there was no money in any of the budgets for independent biological survey’s and in my experience contractors and employees do what they are paid for; 2), there was no process in place in the NH 2020 program for peer reviewing or incorporating independent real time survey data, only existing data, and in my experience doing so would have created a legal defensibility issue that neither the county nor the contractors would want to bear, 3) all scientific data including all review data aggregated from external sources was reviewed by a public committee and incorporated into the NH 2020 Natural Resources Report. I reviewed my copy after this allegation was made, and found no independently done field surveys.
    Just more emotional, non fact based, annoying, irrelevant to the issue being discussed smoke from the crew here.
    In short, its total bullshit.

    Like

  26. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: fish | 16 April 2014 at 08:27 AM
    The desert tortoise is a federally listed endangered species. They are affected by cattle grazing, but with that said there are numerous places where grazing and tortoise habitat is managed concurrently, including on many of the BLM grazing eases that Mr. Bundy’s neighbors are paying $1.25 per Animal Unit Month for.

    Like

  27. John Avatar
    John

    Do you eat beef Brad? What will we do when there is no range land? What will we do when the central valley farms are fallow because the water has been sent to the Delta to save the smelt? Does any of this alarm you, or perhaps Steve? There must be a way to have a reasonable compromise on some of these issues that really do seem to affect “the greater good”.

    Like

  28. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 16 April 2014 at 08:28 AM
    Scott, why the hell would I address whether or not Michael Nutter wants his police force to collaborate with ICE? Last time I checked Philly is 2000 miles away and has nothing to do with the issue being discussed.
    See friends, more dissembling, more irrelevant issues thrown into the pot, more bullshit from the smoke and mirrors crew here. Trying to make up for the FACT that they have absolutely no legal or moral case.

    Like

  29. fish Avatar
    fish

    …including on many of the BLM grazing eases that Mr. Bundy’s neighbors are paying $1.25 per Animal Unit Month for.
    I was under the impression that he was the last rancher working those leases?

    Like

  30. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: John | 16 April 2014 at 08:48 AM
    Gosh John, it absolutely concerns me! I work every day to try to find reasonable compromises around many of these issues.
    But I would not be too worried about running out of cows. Bundy was grazing about 900 head on 158,000 acres of federal land. That is about 175 acres per cow. And my guess is he bought hay and fed them at least 50% of the year from that rather than grazing. This is not very productive forage land.

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  31. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: fish | 16 April 2014 at 08:53 AM
    He is the last rancher working leases in a portion of the Gold Buttes [Google map it in SE Nevada between the east edge of Lake Meade and the Utah border south of Mesquite}. I actually love that eastern Nevada area, and Pioche just north of Mesquite is one of my favorite western towns.
    There are ranchers working BLM leases all around Bundy to the north and east. There are thousand of BLM grazing leases in Nevada, and 18,000 BLM grazing leases to more than 16,000 ranchers on more than 155 million acres of BLM land in the west. That is about 65% of all BLM lands that have grazing leases on them.
    Hope that helps put Mr. Bundy in a little perspective.

    Like

  32. fish Avatar
    fish

    I am fond of SE Nevada as well…..less south and more east though. Okay Stevie I got nothing else….well done!
    Still wish the morons on both sides could work this shit out reasonably.

    Like

  33. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    John- nobody is saying he cannot graze on federal land. He just needs to play by the rules.
    I imagine that when a timber contract is approved, and men and equipment move in to start work, that the rest of “us” who own the land, are excluded from, say camping right in the middle of the log decks.
    So, if the BLM wants to lease the land to someone else (for more money to the US taxpayer) for a solar project, or whatever, Bundy needs to either pony up and outbid them, or find another grazing spot. Hell, a lot of cattle are bussed into California from Montana every year for better winter grazing.
    Re: water, smelt, etc., we all are going to have problems unless we can direct some more rain clouds this way.

    Like

  34. Al Avatar
    Al

    Anyone know if there’s a “Bundy Ranch Support Fund”? The Fund’s intent would be to payback the alleged $million owed to BLM.
    Once such a compromise is consummated, then perhaps other land-use issues and politics can be calmly resolved and discovered.

    Like

  35. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    So the BLM is so accurate about their budgets and their billings that we are supposed to have confidence in their totals? My goodness, these are the same people that are 18 trillion in debt in our name.

    Like

  36. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    “Fish” wrote:
    “Sorry your ancestor couldn’t get a cup of coffee in the towns he was ostensibly sent to serve, mayhap he was a thuggish ham fisted idiot like Bill Pogue.”
    Actually, my ancestor was highly revered by all the normal people in the small towns on the eastern slopes of the Cascades. He was the guy in the middle, trying to balance out the competing concerns of the families who’d logged in communities for multiple generations, and the environmentalists trying to preserve what was left of the old growth forest. Not a very fun job, but he was really good at it.
    The part he hated was having to deal with the 2% of the population that suffered from mental illness, the crazy radicals on the right and left who threatened him with physical harm and who were willing to resort to violence for their alleged “cause.”
    You wouldn’t be supporter of those people, now would you “Fish?”

    Like

  37. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Todd wrote: “So the BLM is so accurate about their budgets and their billings that we are supposed to have confidence in their totals? My goodness, these are the same people that are 18 trillion in debt in our name.”
    Actually Todd, they’re not the same people whatsoever. The people in the trenches, the US Forest Service and BLM personnel who do the day to day in the field, have very little say in what the bureaucrats in their ivory towers, their bosses, come with as far as budgets and billings are concerned. The guys in the trenches don’t set policy, that’s political stuff.
    How come you don’t know this? And when you were a supervisor, how were you perceived by the various federal agency workers who acted as custodians of our precious Nevada County resources? From what you write here and on your silly blog on a daily basis, they must have thought you were a complete nut basket.

    Like

  38. fish Avatar
    fish

    The part he hated was having to deal with the 2% of the population that suffered from mental illness, the crazy radicals on the right and left who threatened him with physical harm and who were willing to resort to violence for their alleged “cause.”
    That 2% is in every population Michael…actually I’m pretty sure it’s a higher percentage than that. It comes with the job.
    You wouldn’t be supporter of those people, now would you “Fish?”
    And as to my support of those people it would depend in the issue.

    Like

  39. Walt Avatar

    ” What diff. does it make now? ” ,, Steve, BTW.. I’m not the only one who caught “county trespassers”. ( or “volunteers” if you care)
    I know.. “so what? that was a long time ago”. I also recall that “the info gathered would never really be used”,, as county citizens were breaking out the tar and feathers. That little fiasco is what got the “green gang” kicked to the curb.
    Just ancient history. ( but I still have a protest button)
    Fish.. When the fur flies again down that way, I’ll swing by and pick ya’ up.
    Civilians with full auto weapons?? Really? Well, that IS a state where they can be possessed with the proper paperwork.

    Like

  40. Barry Pruett Avatar

    If the desert tortoise still listed, how can officials get away with euthanizing hundreds of them? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20130825/us-desert-tortoise-threat/?utm_hp_ref=politics&ir=politics

    Like

  41. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Michael Anderson | 16 April 2014 at 10:33 AM
    Yep, you must be right MichaelA, they thought i was a nutbasket. LOL! Actually I was best friends with the retired Forest Supervisor of the Tahoe and he felt the same as I did. You are the outlier opinion you buffoon.
    Anyway, we all watched as the Feds stopped timber harvesting and mining and tried their best to boot inholders and grazing in all the Fed forests in California and elsewhere. We got to see them lockup all the enegy in the Staicase Escalante and many others. Yep we saw them commit genocide in the small towns of rural California and the west. Yep, you are just a big government lover MichaelA and when they come for your livelihood to wreck it, you may just commit suicide as many rural Californians did years ago over all this. You are a convenient idiot for the lefty policies. You must be proud.

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  42. fish Avatar
    fish

    ….and in other news….the Lion of Sierra Foothills Journalism……up to…..calculating….calculating…..wait for it……still calculating….and the big board shows…..8….count them 8 big comments at der FUEhers gossip girl site!
    Well done jeffy….way to galvanize the public with your rhetorical skills!

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  43. Russ Steele Avatar

    The BLM was rounding up Bundy’s cows to pay a million dollars (1,000,000) in grazing fees. According to documents the BLM paid a Utah cattle wrangler $966,000 to collect Bundy’s cattle. The Nevada Ag Commission said, no one in Nevada would buy the cows, Nevada ranchers do not deal is stolen cows. Yes, this is how the Government does business. Not thinking through the problem.

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  44. Walt Avatar

    Then there is word of the crushed tortoise breading holes by BLM vehicles.
    Is the ECO troops going to sue over that?
    My question about local “public land” being closed has yet to be addressed .
    “someone” said government hasn’t acquired “more property”.
    Then what did Nevada City just buy and/or acquire? Sugarloaf hill? how about a pond? Kiss that tax revenue goodbye.
    We have more open space that’s owned by some form of government around here, yet it’s always out to get more. ( For the pubic good of course)
    Yet we have a certain demographic that demands even more.
    Right down to trials that happen to be on private property. ” we have a right!”
    Forget the NID ditch tail fights? I recall the land owner getting screwed in that deal.
    Then the state arm twisted property owners in the Yuba River Canyon to get that “wild and scenic” designation (and a new state park) THEN even “closed”
    due to lack of funds!! ( for a time)

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  45. John Avatar
    John

    Steve, (8:48) good news that you are working to find reasonable compromises to some of these issues. Any positive movement to report? I am looking for some common ground, and thought there might be some around the issue of the federal government seemingly placing a higher value on everything above our ability to produce food. Bundy’s food production may be modest, but add in the 52 ranchers previously forced out in Clark County, and we have displaced a major food production in one county alone.
    Setting aside the very unsettling paramilitary actions of the BLM recently, does it not concern you that we appear to be waging war on our food producers, in the name of turtles, or solar panels, or whatever they really intend to do with that land. Does it not concern you that there are central valley farms dying because we are sending water to the Delta instead of to the farms?

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  46. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    Russ, remember the $800 hammer? The Feds cannot do anything cheaply!

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  47. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Someone said it here. A government that won’t enforce the borders yet sends in the paramilitary from a “landuse” agency to draw down on fellow Americans is truly warped and racist!

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