Rebane's Ruminations
December 2013
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George Rebane

TalkRadioNews Item – Next year commercial talk radio of the liberal bent is slated to completely collapse in the remaining major media markets of New York City, San Francisco, and Los Angeles.  The problem is that the audiences for such content are miniscule and diminishing.  Leftwing talk radio survives on non-profit outlets such as NPR which are funded through government grants and private donations.  (More here, here, and here)

Now anyone who has been a longtime resident of Earth will not be surprised by this news, even though its dissemination has never been a high priority item on the nation’s lamestream outlets.  The question worth considering once more is why such talk radio cannot get purchase in commercial markets, why are so few people listening to the collectivist side of the political spectrum when a large and growing number are listening to conservative and libertarian commentators.

To people like me, the answers are simple and straightforward.  These answers are also totally rejected by progressives who respond to the asymmetry by their continuing attempts to shut down commercial rightwing talk radio on public airwaves (and now also on private channels) based on sinister yet hilarious arguments of ‘fairness’ and ‘balance’ that completely beg the question of why audiences differ in their preferences for such contents.


My longtime views about the causes for the failure of commercial leftwing radio are –
1.    Socialist tenets are prima facie not acceptable to most informed and thinking Americans; they sound silly and contradict common knowledge of human values and behavior.
2.    Extolling the virtues of ever bigger government and more taxes on the rich to pay for less performance from more working age people is not a convincing argument when people look at what Washington has attempted to deliver (see graphic below).
3.    The presentation of collectivism’s synoptic principles is a tedious narrative that motivates no one to strive for success or go the extra mile.  Society advances at its margins, providing new and better products and services at lower costs to greater numbers of people, because that is where the greatest reward for individuals’ performance lies.  But that is also where the greatest risk awaits.  And because collectivists promise to take more and more of the last dollar that is so difficult to earn, everyone immediately understands why they will not make the effort and expose themselves to unrewarded risk.  It’s hard to BS your way through that truth on the radio or anywhere for that matter (even on RR).
4.    To liberal talkers the remaining narrative is the eternal recounting of the anecdotal – examples of the elderly couple in dire need of an unaffordable life prolonging procedure, the poor single mother with six kids who doesn’t have a skill that can support her brood, and is also not bright enough to acquire one were the opportunity provided, and so on.  Liberal talk radio is simply dreary and unconvincing.  Attempting to extol the absent virtues of big government departments like the EPA, Education, Energy, TSA, …, and now HHS is hard to do with a straight face, and even harder to hear.  And wanting to do more of the same with higher taxes (‘next time we’ll do it right’) is a blatant joke.  This approach quickly wears on even the most receptive and simple of ears.
5.    But the most compelling reason for the small audiences is that people, those who succumb to the collectivist siren song but also have the ability and interest to process and communicate information on social issues, make up a very small fraction of our population.  Most supporters of liberal causes give little evidence of such talents and propensities.

Obamacare_WhenPIgsFly

In spite of the above, my druthers about the future of leftwing talk radio are –
1.    It should continue receiving public assistance to keep such programs on the air.  Both independent and conservative voters should have ready access to liberal thought and interpretations of events and history, no matter how silly.
2.    Wherever possible, the programs should be coupled with conservative talk radio in formats that allow listeners to make comparisons and contrasts.  Perhaps such interleavings or pairings will attract sufficient audiences that warrant commercial sponsors.
3.    The media outlets for leftwing content are not in danger of disappearing since most of the mainstream media (aka ‘the lamestream’) on TV and in print publications that disseminate news and entertainment – i.e. thought-optional content – are left-leaning.  However, the Left’s continued forays to limit and/or extinguish conservative channels remains both expected and disquieting.

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140 responses to “Collapse of Commercial Collectivist Talk Radio”

  1. Russ Steele Avatar

    One of the reasons that the left is attacked the Duck Dynasty is that the progressives are loosing the cultural message. The total audience is shifting to more conservative outlets with more content that reflects the true America.
    The Season 4 premiere of “Duck Dynasty” in August drew 11.8 million viewers, making it the most-watched reality-show episode in cable TV history. Meanwhile, in the 8 p.m. hour on Thursday, Dec. 19, CNN drew 528,000 viewers and MSNBC got 699,000 viewers, for a combined total of slightly more than 1.2 million viewers.

    Like

  2. Walt Avatar

    Man… Tough to be a Progressive these days. Their dreams of a new socialist
    country is beginning to be dashed. Their health care utopia has been shown to be a scam. More people have lost coverage than gained any. Even the low info LIB is realizing his “superman” sucks. Those in power believed they could lie through their teeth on national TV and radio, and get away with it. Heck, even suppressing news stories was the name of the game. LIB news forget about the Internet?? Their control of what gets told to the public is over.
    LIBS thought they had gun control,, under control. Well, that blew up in their collective face. How many political seats has that cost them already,? and it’s not even election time yet. Again, no matter how LIB news tried to spin it in Progressive favor, it fizzled.
    The LIB view that home ownership is a “right” just about crippled the nation, and their “fix” was just as bad, if not worse. Of course, LIB news tried to save the day.
    It seems the masses are done with the Left. The attack on Phil Robertson was the last straw. Even Hollywood has had a come to Jesus moment. “NOHA” is the first big Christian movie in a while. ( NO!… The Progressives are NOT going to like that one bit.)

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  3. Walt Avatar

    I wonder if this was LIB radio’s last S.O.S. call to go out before the plug was pulled?
    http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/28/dnc-sends-email-defending-obama-from-impeachment-possibility/
    Now did any of Doc.’s resident Leftys get the memo?
    Seems the DNC is in panic mode KNOWING they are going to lose the Senate.

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  4. Ben Emery Avatar

    Its comes down to ownership and advertising. What large or even medium size corporation is going to advertise on a station that holds them accountable for their external costs and damage? Very few if any, that’s who. It is how monopoly capitalism forms. If profits and money determine what content gets broadcast those with the most money to invest will eventually own the market.
    FOX lost $500 million dollars before they finally turned a profit. Washington Times loses or lost money the entire time Moon controlled it. If losing money in the news market helps them make money elsewhere it is a good overall business model.

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  5. George Rebane Avatar

    Walt 307pm – Good points, but you’ll excuse me if I don’t join you in happy dancing about liberals’ follies leading to their downfall. Democracy is a dangerous form of governance in the hands of an ignorant majority.

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  6. Ben Emery Avatar

    Walt,
    Not that I am a supporter of the Democratic Party but the Senate will not leave the D’s hands. Gerrymandering works for the US House and State legislatures but doesn’t work for US Senate or Electoral College. The R’s already have to much representation in the US Senate for the population they actually are supposed to “represent”. I think the numbers are around 30% of the total US population yet they have 45% of representation in the Senate and have been holding the entire 308 million Americans hostage with their obstruction.

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  7. Walt Avatar

    Actually Doc.,, ya’ hit the nail on the head. We are already living your nightmare scenario of an ” ignorant majority”. They legislated with ” feelings”, and just because it says so in a book somewhere “academia”.
    Or name any bleeding heart ” gov. must do something”.
    That’s what has got us into SO much trouble. Yes, now their house of cards, and Ponzi scams have reached their tipping point. The PC stuff? From what I read, and see, the majority of people have had enough of that as well.
    And seeing “honest Joe” as Prez isn’t at the top of my list to see either.

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  8. Walt Avatar

    Ben. If things were coming up daisy’s and the babbling brooks ran with bourbon
    over glacier ice cubes,, ya’ think the DNC would even raise the “I” word?
    The Senate safe in Dem hands? LOL!! There is blood in the water. What are the incumbent LIBS going to run on? “O” care? The pitchforks and torches are already out. More people have lost their healthcare than the deadbeats that signed up for free.
    The low info voter count is getting lower and lower. When people’s wallets got lighter by the month, they started to find out why. Just who are they pointing the finger at? That’s right… Their local LIB politician.
    BTW,, The Left doesn’t have the IRS running interference this time around.

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  9. Ben Emery Avatar

    Walt,
    This might surprise you but I think Obama should be impeached. There are many many progressives who believe the same thing. The Democratic Party is anything but progressive and over half the people that vote for the D’s are progressives because they have no other place to go. I think that might be changing in the next decade. That was part of the reasons why I ran in 2010, to show people who have a hell of lot more credentials than I do that we need people to step up outside the two parties. US Congressional District 4 in 2010 was a rural Republican safe seat but the symbolism of our campaign of the beginning of the end for the two party tyranny wasn’t lost. I along with dozens of other at the federal level and many more at the state level across the country stepped into the ring and proclaimed the two parties have failed us. The movement is growing and I think the Tea Party will end up joining it on the right side of the aisle once the establishment Republicans kick the TP out of positions of power.

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  10. George Rebane Avatar

    From an email sent to me tonight –
    DNC sends email defending Obama from impeachment possibility
    7:11 PM 12/28/2013
    Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2013/12/28/dnc-sends-email-defending-obama-from-impeachment-possibility/#ixzz2oq50zjYz
    The Democratic National Committee (DNC) sent out a paranoid email Saturday evening urging supporters to vote for Democrats so that Republicans can’t impeach President Obama.

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  11. Ben Emery Avatar

    Maybe the Democrats should start governing in the peoples interest and they wouldn’t have to send out such letters.
    US Registration Numbers
    40% not D or R
    32% D
    28% R
    over 60% want different political party to choose from

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  12. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    Its comes down to ownership and advertising:
    If you ask Sen. Al Franken, one of the founders of Air America (a left leaning talk radio network for those of you who don’t know what it is), the collapse of progressive talk radio is more of a function of a lack of advertisers than audience members. Memos leaked to news agencies confirm that many large corporations instructed their advertising agencies to cancel ads on Air America stations. No sponsors, no revenue, no show, no audience. It’s that simple.
    I find it interesting that you find the supposed “fairness and balance” argument by progressives to be hilarious. Did you also find it hilarious when Republicans were using the same argument in their “liberal media bias” campaign over the last 30 years? It was, after all, the Republicans who did away with the “fairness doctrine” and it was Republican Presidents and that corporate stooge, Bill Clinton, who deregulated the broadcast ownership rules. Before Reagan, no one person or company could own more than 7 AM radio stations and 7 FM radio stations. That changed to 12 of each under Reagan, 20 of each under Daddy Bush, and unlimited via the Gingrich Congress passing and Clinton signing the Telecommunications Act of 1996. Most radio stations are now conglomerate owned. Clear Channel Communications (KFBK in Sacramento among 7 others owned by them in Sacramento) owns over a thousand stations, particularly AM which are the main broadcasters of talk radio.
    The elimination of the “fairness doctrine” when combined with massive radio station conglomeration (1700 independently owned stations were bought by conglomerates between 1996 and 1998 alone) led to the flooding of the airwaves with right wing talk radio at both the national and local levels. Collectivist radio, as you call it, never did take up more than 2% of the talk radio bandwidth at best.
    So while the demise of progressive talk radio is real, it is wishful thinking to attribute that demise to the death knells of progressivism. Probably a better indicator is that more people are interested in the bigots on Duck Dynasty than what is going on in the world. It ‘s called stupidity, the dumbing down of America because stupid uninformed people are easier to manipulate. This is not lost on the billionaires and their stooges.

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  13. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Bigots on Duck Dynasty? I have not had the privilege to watch DD or any Wild Boar show since I don’t have TV service. With that said, I see this as a backlash to that cooking show where the Southern Host said the nigger word 20 years prior. It ruined her career. 20 years prior??
    Now Papa Duck may not have any political sense and he said his comments in an interview. I was told he said he prefers a vagina to an anus. Well, call me a bigot as well cause I prefer a vagina to an anus any day of the week. Whether you agree with Papa Duck or not, remember somebody asked him the question. I always respect straight shooters whether I agree with them or not. The more absurd side of Political Correctness does the PC issue a disservice since it is now more common to mock PC than admire it.
    I remember as a kid when the LA Times stopped printing the race of criminals in a story cause it was considered racist and discriminatory. Not cool to say a young black man, 6’1″, wearing a red jacket, possibly with a short beard, is being sought by authorities. If you have any information, please call 555-5555. Not cool to identify race when looking for someone. Totally asinine.

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  14. George Rebane Avatar

    JoeK 1023am – time to polish up the old reading skills again Joe. RR has NEVER claimed either ‘death knells’ or the ‘demise’ of progressivism – quite the opposite. Progressivism has definitely been on the rise as measured by the national vote, and generation of public policies since the Great Society days. And we both agree that the cause is “stupidity, the dumbing down of America because stupid uninformed people are easier to manipulate” – all due to progressive initiatives at work in the public square.
    But what our liberal readers cannot argue with a straight face is that capitalists are greedy sumbiches who put the almighty dollar ahead of all else, while at the same time letting their ideology get in the way of making more dollars by withdrawing advertising from popular programs. On second thought, liberals have been known to use exactly that kind of logic in presenting their arguments.

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  15. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    I certainly do not believe in the Death of Progressivism. Like trying to stomp out cockroaches. They will be the only things that survive an all out Global Thermal Nuclear War.
    While it is true that liberals (or what ever term they find endearing at the moment) make up around 20% of the voters, they are a worthy foe. And they ain’t going to change their spots and go quietly into the still night, ever.
    I have been following the liberal percentage poll for decades. Usually it is at 19%, but one time in one poll only it hit 23-24%. So, it fluctuates between 19%-21% on average, year after year. I would think that despite America having a slightly conservative bend (God, Country and Apple Pie)the true believers of the liberal persuasion will never ever compromise with America. They have made great strides in the Courts and Media and have The Moral High Ground on their side.
    Do not underestimate the enemy. They are coming alright, and boy are they pissed.

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  16. Ben Emery Avatar

    If someone thinks that progressivism is on its way out they aren’t paying attention. A global progressive movement is happening. It might not be covered in the US but never the less it is still happening over the last few years.
    Cambodian police clash with protesting garment workers amid strike
    http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/cambodian-police-clash-with-protesting-garment-workers-amid-strike-1.1608836#ixzz2otMtl0v9
    Bangladesh factories agree to pay rise, but protests go on
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/14/us-bangladesh-garments-idUSBRE9AD0BL20131114
    China rounds up 100 activists to rapidly quash pro-democracy ‘Jasmine Revolution’ organised online
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1358834/China-quashes-pro-democracy-Jasmine-Revolution-force.html
    Yemen Arab Spring
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/8542574/Arab-Spring-protests-in-Yemen-and-Egypt-while-fighting-continues-in-Libya.html
    Brazil’s Protests: Social Inequality and World Cup Spending Fuel Mass Unrest | http://world.time.com/2013/06/18/brazils-protests-social-inequality-and-world-cup-spending-fuel-mass-unrest/#ixzz2otLwE1w8
    Eastern Europe: A year of protest
    From Ukraine to Romania and Slovenia popular anger led to street demonstrations across the region
    Revealed: how the FBI coordinated the crackdown on Occupy
    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-coordinated-crackdown-occupy
    Have you noticed a pattern of crackdown from authority against those whose message is equality and democracy?
    Then we have the Tea Party who slogans actually help the billionaires and large industries. Small Government (regulations), Low to No Taxes, Low Government spending (social programs only not military). So Tea Party protests don’t get broken up by the establishment or authorities. Ever wonder why?

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  17. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Brother Ben. This thread has gone from Lib Flame Thrower talk radio to the Ahab Spring. Eastern Europe and Cambodia compared to the Tea Party? I am shocked, shocked I tell ya, that you left out the crackdowns going on in Thailand. Military Coup (or is that Military Corpsman)coming to a theater near you.
    Brother Ben, just when I thought nothing you could say or do in the realm of moral equivalency could surprise me, you go ahead and surprise me again. Workers in Bangladesh compared to the Tea Party Patriots. Oh my. You have really ended the year on a new high.

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  18. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Walt, I do not believe the Republicans will take over the Senate.
    Dr. Rebane, if progressive talk radio can’t make it in New York City, Frisco, or LA, then it is safe to say they can’t make it anywhere. New York City losings its last Progressive Talk radio station? Impossible! Alas, Alas, say it ain’t so.

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  19. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 1111am – No I don’t wonder why Tea Party protests don’t get broken up by the authorities in the US. The easy to understand reason is that they are orderly, peaceful assemblies that do not violate anyone’s property rights and clean up after themselves. And no one familiar with the Constitution is confused as to why the federal government should be of limited scope (as specified) and focus its spending on prescribed national functions like defense. National welfare spending (transfer payments) is extra-constitutional, and contains the inexorable first steps of a democracy in decline.

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  20. Ben Emery Avatar

    Hmmm You are repeating talking points as old as the hills from those who sit in power.
    Scathing Report on UC-Davis Pepper-Spray Incident Faults Chancellor and Police
    http://chronicle.com/article/UC-Davis-Pepper-Spray-Report/131496/
    Ludlow Massacre 1914
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/primary-resources/rockefellers-ludlow/
    Gilded Age oppression against workers
    http://dig.lib.niu.edu/gildedage/labor.html
    The British would have argued the same thing against the Colonists. It was within the law to tax the American Colonists to pay for the 7 years war that extended far beyond the American Colonies. When they Colonists opposed stricter more oppressive policies fell upon their heads.
    There isn’t an argument that power doesn’t like the rabble or as you put it the ignorant majority. My argument with you is what side of the fight are you on. You hands down take the side of authority almost every time. I would say that means you might be on the correct side of a conflict during the present but are on the wrong side in historical context. Those who win the battles get to write the history that is taught to the masses. Overtime as we progress as a civilization and society the truth ends up siding with those who fought for equality and justice.

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  21. Walt Avatar

    Even when Conservatives regain control, the Progressive “dooms day” fail safe
    is humming right along. The FED has propped up the stock market, and it will collapse the minute the QE program is scuttled. Of Course conservatism will get the blame. Not the crack dealers running the FED.
    Ben. Your griping about a crackdown of OWS??? Those property damaging lawbreakers? Cry me a river!! “equality and democracy” isn’t the agenda. It was and always will be ” Give me free stuff”. ” Take from HIM,, and give to ME”
    The ONLY arrests at Tea Party gathering was an infiltrator or two from
    the “outside”.

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  22. Walt Avatar

    Bill. only 5 seats need to turn. And I don’t believe Dirty Harry can change the rules back to what they used to be, to give the (soon to be) LIB minority any leverage.
    The bald face attacks on our Liberty’s hasn’t gone unnoticed by the masses.
    The pushback has already begun. Low level Lefties have already been heaved from office,( state and county levels)in many states.
    The newest attacks on Christian values seems to be the last straw.
    So in your opinion,, how will the Left keep the Senate?
    They just sent out that S.O.S. in full blown fear of losing it, knowing
    a full court hearing of impeaching “O” is sure to come. And all the dirty secrets
    that will be exposed. Nope,, That memo is an act of desperation. If they felt they had no problem keeping the SEN., that would have NEVER gone out.

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  23. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 1245pm – Actually, the record of RR is very clear on what side of ‘power’ conservatarianism comes down. You conveniently ignore the wanton hooliganism that is endemic in leftwing demonstrations in America and elsewhere. Hence your logic drives you to conclude that those who desire to get their message across in a civil manner must therefore actually be the prostrating pawns of the very power against which they demonstrate – not an unheard of mental gymnastic for the progressive mind.
    But there is a point to consider here. As the Obamunistic form of collectivism waxes, there may well exist a threshold beyond which conservative civility may ‘fail hard’. By that I mean that simply defecating on police cars, breaking windows, and fornicating in public will not serve.

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  24. George Rebane Avatar

    Walt 0113pm – Agreed.

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  25. Ben Emery Avatar

    Walt,
    Here are some Economic Statistics to chew on
    1980- 2009 83% of economic gains were made in the *top 1%
    2010 91% new income went to the top 1%
    2009- 2012 95% of new income to top 1%
    Some 95% of 2009-2012 Income Gains Went to Wealthiest 1%
    http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2013/09/10/some-95-of-2009-2012-income-gains-went-to-wealthiest-1/
    So how do you guys justify or even just rationalize these numbers? Is it 99% of Americans are lazy and want free stuff? Or is it the system is rigged from top to bottom for the small few elites?
    *Even within the top 1% there are the elite top 0.03% of 1% who make up a vast majority of those gains. A individual making $300k a year in the top 1%, they are doing well but are not independently wealthy by any means.

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  26. Ben Emery Avatar

    “Or is it the system is rigged from top to bottom for the small few elites?”
    Which leads back to my original comment on this post.
    28 December 2013 at 06:47 PM

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  27. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Brother Ben, your stats to chew on get recycled time and time again on these pages. Duh. Are you talking Haiti, France, the Congo, Libya, Russia, China, Hong Kong, Lebanon, Belize or just us evil Yankees? Your original comments and your new or unoriginal comments always are the same, time immortal. Same post, different day. I know, I know. Where there is child who is denied education, you will be there. Where there is a child in a sweatshop, you will be there. When injustice and intolerance and authoritarianism rears its ugly head, you will be there. So 1933, is it not?
    Walt. Your scenario of the Republicans regaining the Senate is a real possibility. But, I just won’t jump on that bandwagon 11 months out. That is several lifetimes in politics. Heck, there is no way no how Dirty Harry would be reelected (I said then)and I got reminded once again of counting one’s chickens before they hatch.
    But, Mr. Walt, by all means do my cheering for me. Because of a fluke of nature, 21 of the 30 seats or so that are up for reelection in the Senate have a D after the seat. Hmmmmm. Also, count the retirements and regional ebbs and flows and you may be correct. But, elections are on a date certain and that date is not the end of 2013.
    Politics is full of weird twists and turns. Just one Hurricane Sandy can change everything. The people elected Joe Biden back to the Senate year after year so nothing is beyond the realm of possibility.
    http://www.theonion.com/articles/biden-frantically-hitting-up-cabinet-members-for-c,34515/

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  28. Walt Avatar

    The system “rigged”? You may have something there.
    We have money right under our feet, yet we are not “allowed”
    to dig for it. ( Gold.. You may have heard of it) Just who
    came up with that brilliant idea? Just think how much money
    get’s wizzed away because of government(and into it)and “special interest”.
    It takes money to make it. Poor people don’t make jobs. And the current Lefty
    Ideal of picking “winners and losers”?? Well… Lefty Government has a perfect
    track record of backing losers.
    The “man” took over GM. We would have been better off if GM filed for BK.
    The taxpayer LOST big time all the way around. When the “man” finally sold
    what stocks it held, we were down another 10 Bill.
    Every law creates a cost to someone. Every law impedes another’s rights.
    So tell me.. Just what part of our everyday life isn’t regulated in some form or fashion? Breathing? I’m sure there is a law about that too.

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  29. Walt Avatar

    Bill..Dirty Harry got elected the same way he got Mitt’s tax return. ( Playing dirty pool)Too bad he is safe this time around.
    I try to be optimistic these days.
    Now that the low info voter is getting a rude awakening where their health care is concerned, they are not so uninformed anymore. A big chunk of their checkbook that has gone missing had a lot to do with it. The backpedaling of “O” and Co.
    on their bait and switch ( “If you like your …. You can keep it” etc. etc.)
    hasn’t worked. “O” and Co. are patting themselves on the back because they got 1 million people to sign up! Uh,, what about the six million that lost what they had??
    People also see NO ONE in this admin. has been held accountable for anything.
    Most people understand that if “they” had gone in front of congressional committees and lied through their teeth, they would be behind bars.
    But not appointed people on the Left. ( There is the “elitism”)

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  30. Walt Avatar

    Things keep getting better and better. And old issue comes back to haunt.
    With that I’m just going to light the fuse and run….
    http://www.wnd.com/2013/12/why-couldnt-healthcare-gov-validate-obamas-identity/
    ( reminder.. “O”‘s info has been questionable from day one)

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  31. Ben Emery Avatar

    Without a doubt you guys can be described as dinosaurs. I heard there is plenty of plutonium left in the Southwest? Natural gas in Texas extracted by fracking. Gold in California and the sky is falling crowd uses fresh water as a scare tactic. I also heard a $20 million dollar prize for the person to kill the last remaining African Elephant, ivory is at an all time high and with no more AE to produce the price will skyrocket even higher.
    Yep guys we tried that philosophy for 150 years and we find ourselves in the mess we are today because of it. I don’t think doubling down is the correct or moral answer.

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  32. Ben Emery Avatar

    I heard there is tons of money in the bringing on the extinction of African Elephants due to the cost ivory. Wipe any future AE ivory and it becomes amazingly more valuable over night.
    Your guys philosophy was played out and it landed us in the mess we are today. Isn’t it time for you guys to get a rocking chair and leave the world for the future generations?

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  33. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Ben – you need to stop hyperventilating and calm down. OWS protesters were breaking the law. It didn’t matter what their message was. The truth is that the authorities have been shown to be very lenient on left wing groups and much harder on conservative groups. Tea Party folk assemble legally and peacefully. And they clean the place up afterwards. Look at the many pictures of post left wing rallies vs post rally for conservative groups. The left always leave a trashed mess.
    The protestors in Davis were blocking a public place and breaking the law. In my day, the police would just apply the old scalp massager. The protestors were warned and given every opportunity to leave peacefully. But they made the poor little rich white kids cry! Boo hoo.
    Is the system rigged? I’ve been explaining it to you, Ben. You don’t seem to read very well. Yes – the middle class is being screwed. Most of them are too stupid to understand or just too lazy to do anything about it. And a lot of the middle class actually vote to get screwed. You want democracy but complain when the rabble don’t vote correctly.
    Hey – give lazy idiots the vote and guess what? They will. Govt run schools have that effect. We are now reaping what we have sown. Enjoy!

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  34. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 139pm++ – What mess are we in that was not caused by government corruption? The socialist solution is an easy one – continue to enlarge and empower governments, then blame capitalism when there are any problems that can only have been caused by governments with the gun.
    Nevertheless, I can see why you don’t want to address the responses to your 1245pm charge. ScottO’s 621pm has reiterated the points of my 1154am and 132pm. But let’s see if there is any progress in this discussion from you or your cohorts. Elephant tusks are a nice diversion.

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  35. Ben Emery Avatar

    George,
    For the love a god, can you guys not see the fact that industry owns the two political parties. That industry has captured regulatory agencies. That industry has captured cabinet posts and chief advisory positions. Low and behold US corporations have never seen higher profits, inequality is at 80 year highs, the US has never extracted more fossil fuels than today, financial regulations are non existent, Monsanto owns the USDA, gigantic corporations that make billions in profits pay no income taxes, and the incentives are for companies/ factories to leave the country. Do you guys just not see this or is it you just don’t care?

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  36. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Brother Ben: Perhaps this relentless cry for help is better suited for Commercial Collectivist Talk Radio.
    Second verse, same as the first. And a one….and a two, now hit it boys
    The Yellow Rose of Monsanto is the only rose for me…………………………………………………………………………………………………….

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  37. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 730pm – The problem you seem to have is connecting the obvious dots. ‘Industry’ would have no cause to cozy up to a government that is limited and not able to cobble together market mangling regulations that pick winners and losers, and increase the barriers to entry for new entrepreneurs with new products and better ways to do things. It is only when governments become big and gain reach into every aspect of our lives that government/corporate collusion becomes a reality. As I have pointed out many many times – the good part of capitalists is that they game the system, the bad part of capitalists is that they game the system. Let’s agree to give them a system of governance the gaming of which benefits us all. It is real easy to do, but it won’t foment class warfare or buy the votes of the ignorant.

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  38. TheMikeyMcD Avatar

    Limit the power of government and you also limit the power of special interests (increase the power of the individual). Not rocket science.
    But, lets keep ignoring the inequality in our tax/spend system…. (Warning: requires an open mind and some level of math understanding):
    http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/44604-AverageTaxRates.pdf
    Summary: according to CBO (under a liberal president mind you) the top 20 percent pay nearly 93 percent of all income taxes, while the top 40 percent pay 106 percent of them. 106%, that is not a typo!
    All this BEFORE the largest redistribution of wealth program starts next month (Obamacare). A growing population of idiots requires more freebies in exchange for votes (no protests).

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  39. Ryan Mount Avatar

    Where’s Paul on this topic?
    I’ve always assumed that many of talk radio listeners are small business/self employed types typically working out of their vehicles or from home.
    That seems to explain Rush Limbaugh’s and Sean Hannity’s numbers (they’re #1 and #2 respectively): Rush gets the conservatives at work who have the liberty to listen to what they want, and Hannity gets the car listener on the commute home. Car listeners make up about 20% (I thought it would be higher) of all radio listeners. A whopping 70% listen from a fixed location. And the balance are online, etc.
    Also, in my research, I found that Millennials, of all people, are heavy listeners of radio. Quite surprising, actually.
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45542068/Radio-By-the-Numbers-Fall-2013.pdf (Arbitron summary)
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45542068/Radio_Today_2013_execsum.pdf (demo executive summary)
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/45542068/PublicRadioToday2013_ExecutiveSummary.pdf (Public Radio highlights)
    What’s basically happened is Commercial Radio has moved into conservative talk and strict (an extraordinarily boring) music formats, and “Progressive” formats have retreated to local radio with smallish markets like our very own KVMR. This is due two the removal of the Fairness Doctrine in the 1980s, and the 1996 Telecommunications acts that allowed corporations to gobble up large markets which has created this cesspool of mediocrity. Rush Limbaugh and the “JACK” music formats are mildly entertaining but mostly just plain dull and dumb.
    I don’t consider NPR to be “Progressive.” I consider them to be as beholden to their handlers as any other network. They’re ideological. But the American public, in their collective DSM IV/5 binary mania just assumes that NPR, et al, are the “opposite” of say, Michael Savage.

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  40. Ben Emery Avatar

    George,
    Any comments on the NY Times Benghazi report? Shocker shocker CIA is involved, which means massive cover ups and the biggest victim will be the truth.
    http://www.nytimes.com/projects/2013/benghazi/#/?chapt=0

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  41. Ben Emery Avatar

    George,
    The problem with you not being able to connect the dots is industry, large corporations, and the wealthy have it set up just the way they want it.
    It is your ideology that doesn’t see the dangers in massive dynastic accumulated wealth and the ability to use that wealth influence/ controlling our government, a government that is the commons of 100% of the people not just the top 1-2%. It is your ideology that promote free markets without any checks and balances of power outside where average people spend their dollars. Unchecked markets become predator markets and the most cutthroat ruthless “business” owners will consolidate and monopolize the market. I refer you back to the Gilded Age and Robber Baron era’s and see what was produced. It has been proven time and time again to work this way and it is precisely why true capitalists fear democracy so much. People actually having a say in how the market operate.

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  42. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 819am – Pretty sure you didn’t understand my 823pm or Mikey’s 922pm. Waiting for why corporations cozy up to government.
    RyanM 707am – good stuff Ryan, thanks.

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  43. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Honestly BenE, don’t you ever tire of your ridiculous mantra against everything except the “mob”. The owrld is not a perfect place, you should get some old tome religion to put a smile back on that sourpuss mug of yours. Corporations are people, industry is made of people, political systems are made of people. You must be anti [people since you have suck hate. You are a tiresome bloke. Give it a rest.

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  44. Gerry Fedor Avatar
    Gerry Fedor

    Has anyone every driven by a wreck on the freeway and not slowed down to take a look at the carnage?
    I equate Russ Steele’s comments to the number of people that saw the December 19th show, to this as people tuned in to see the carnage after the wreck…. (plus they advertised this as being the Christmas show, and who wouldn’t want to see a Alligator on the Holiday table with an apple stuck in it’s mouth – LOL!!)
    The following shows had a much lower rating which means that people are done seeing the carnage and are waiting for the fire department to clean up the aftermath.

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  45. Gerry Fedor Avatar
    Gerry Fedor

    Here’s something interesting in the LA Times about conservative talk radio….
    http://articles.latimes.com/2009/mar/15/local/me-talkradio15

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  46. Ben Emery Avatar

    George and Mickey,
    The premise of your questions are fantasy thus making it impossible to answer them in the way you desire.
    Can you admit no market can exist without some form of governing body whether it be public or private?
    -If this is true then the premise that governments somehow seize the power to regulate markets is faulty. For a market to exist their must be some agreed upon rules, a trusted judicial system to review individual cases, and a way to enforce those rules. That my friends is a governing body. So the divide we got here is do you want a small few with the most money to set the rules such as WTO or World Bank or the general public through our common government who albeit not sufficiently representative but have some sort of accountability to the people?
    -As we have allowed accumulated wealth to take place the cost of campaigning and political parties has skyrocketed. No surprise with the cost of campaigns going up the size and scope of government has gone up. As industry captures both political parties thus our government they expand and increase the public/ private interests.
    I want no special interest money in politics so the corruption cannot take place. You guys have stated over and over again a fantasy that government doesn’t have the power to regulate/ set rules while saying unlimited spending in politics is the direction we need to go.
    I have a theory that fits into your great divide but don’t have time today to share it.

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  47. Walt Avatar

    Well,,, our county is once again is making national news.
    Heard about the church ordered to take down the “support our troops” signs?
    ( By the County)
    The Drudge report has picked it up, as well as CBS. NO.. The people are NOT happy.
    Nevada Co. has stepped in it big time. We are now the next laughing stock….
    http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2013/12/28/nevada-county-church-ordered-to-remove-support-our-troops-sign/

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  48. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    “Do not underestimate the enemy. ” — I find it quite disturbing that one’s fellow Americans can be characterized as “enemies” because they exercise their constitutional rights to free speech but happen to disagree. Will these enemies be subjected to gas chambers to rid the nation of “cockroaches?” Or perhaps a drone strike in their backyard at their daughter’s wedding will do the trick of ridding the country of these insects.
    George: National welfare spending (transfer payments) is extra-constitutional, and contains the inexorable first steps of a democracy in decline.” Do you also consider the Wall Street bailouts, ag subsidies, bloated, corrupt and fraudulent defense appropriations and other similar corporate “transfer payments” to be extra-constitutional?
    You often speak of those who do not create anything usable or contribute to the economy (ie. the poor) as a significant problem. Please explain how derivatives, junk bonds, and other “financial instruments” that make up the casino economy of Wall St. contribute to the country’s well being and create usable results for the nation. How are the traders different from the poor who contribute nothing to the general well being?

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  49. Ryan Mount Avatar

    George-
    Do you grow tired of answering the same set of questions over and over again? (with regards Mr. Koyote’s cronyism question)
    Joe-
    I’m reasonably certain that a conservative would not support bank bailouts and would prefer than real capitalism sort out the winners and losers, not the government to pick based on arbitrary criteria like campaign donations and who’s sitting in the Executive Cabinet.
    However, a question for you and others:
    Would you have been prepared to face a theoretical (it didn’t happen and we’ll never know exactly why) massive meltdown in markets in 2007/08 without government intervention? Let’s say assets, pensions and retirement accounts simply went “poof” making the Great Depression look like an overdrawn checking account.
    Perhaps a more direct question: What would you have done if you were Paulson/Bernanke?

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  50. Walt Avatar

    Ben says Corps. are cozying up to gov. regulators?
    That equates to masochism. ” OOhhh!! Regulate me some more! YES! Give my bottom line another good twist. Stick it to my investors while your at it.”
    The only ones that subscribe to Ben’s ideals, are companies that make something that no one really needs, or is SO damned expensive, few can afford to buy. weather it’s a good product or not. So they cry to government to mandate the use, or get the taxpayer to subsidize it. THOSE are the ones with kneepads on
    “lobbying” their favorite politician. From Solyindra to Fisker, and every failed
    green scam in-between. Lefty pals go rich, and Lefty political coffers got filled. The Left had a great money laundering scam working.( and still is)
    Since Ben brings up OWS… Ben. Obama donors don’t go to jail. Your evil Wall St. was/ is the milking station for Lefties the last eight years.

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