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December 2013
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George Rebane

‘A Future of Failure?: The Flow of Technology Talent into Government and Civil Society’ was just published by Freedman Consulting, a progressive policy consultancy run by former staffers of Democrat administrations.  This important report was sponsored by the MacArthur and Ford Foundations, organizations that are much in tune with leftwing causes and central planning.  It recognizes failures – most notably healthcare.gov – by all levels of government to understand, incorporate, and operate systems that have a high technology component.

The report is timely, given what has happen and what portends for Americans as the federal government continues to stumble and bumble in such efforts to inject themselves more and more into our lives and fortunes. Through extensive interviews with government and “civil society” (i.e. NGOs and non-profits) officials and management, the authors conclude that governments are woefully lacking in STEMM (they add ‘medicine’ for the extra ‘M’) knowledge and expertise.  RR readers will not be surprised by any of the factual aspects and even most of the conclusions in the report. 


As an erroneous example of this, they blame the healthcare.com fiasco on such shortcomings.  While their overall premise is correct, they err here because the disastrous development of that website and its IT back end had little to do with government managers’ understanding of STEMM.  What they didn’t have were the most basic skills in structuring and executing a procurement program.  The disciplines they lacked and failed to exercise would have caused them to equally screw up everything from the building of a barn to buying trucks for the military.  And indeed, these civil servant types, appointed and hired, have demonstrated such ineptitude for as long as memory serves.  That is a prime reason why it is common knowledge to all but the hard Left that government should be entrusted with as little as absolutely necessary to serve the common weal.

But back to the report.  Given the bent of the report’s authors and sponsors, their ginger treatment of established and systemic government ineptitude is understandable.  For example they observe that the reason qualified STEMM people leave government in droves and opt for private industry is that for-profit companies “may” provide higher compensation, a more stimulating work environment, and advancement based on merit.  No $h!t Red Ryder.

In spite of such softballing, the report is well written and accompanied by informative tables and graphics.  Its key findings that explain government IT related failures are summed as –

•    The Current Pipeline is Insufficient (not enough people are being educated/trained in IT and STEMM fields while our students continue to “slip” – more here),
•    Barriers to Recruitment and Retention Are Acute (no competent practitioner wants to work with C students managed by double dummies),
•    A Major Gap between the Public-Interest and For-Profit Sectors Persists (it seems that the private sector fosters “a culture of innovation, openness, and creativity that (is) seen as more appealing to technologists.”  Gasp!),
•    A Need to Examine Models from Other Fields (Yep, about time they try finding out what work is like where the motto on the wall is something other than ‘CYA all the way!’),
•    Significant Opportunity for Connection and Training (they mean connecting and being trained in the thinking and ways of dispensing largesse from government on high),
•    Culture Change is Necessary (correct, but well-nigh impossible in environments that worship stasis, eschew risk, and depend on altruistic ‘go along to get along’ behavior).

All that being said and done, this report should be viewed as an intra-progressive communication that seeks to explain a continuing and now growing stream of government failures in a world becoming ever more technology dependent.  It doesn’t and can’t come right out and say that things are as they are because such bureaucracies with perverse embedded feedback systems can only be tolerated by people who are either scheming climbers or stupid and/or ignorant.  The basic message of this remarkable document reinforces the fundamental progressive precept that a growing gush of proactive public policies, based on central planning by an expanding government, are required to deliver an acceptable quality of life to Americans.

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266 responses to “‘A Future of Failure?’ – A Timely Progressive Lament”

  1. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Brother Ben, here is one heck of a woman and someone who evokes my respect. “Wimps fail.” Against all odds, she never listed to those who told her she is too short or America is racist or even the deck is stacked against her or women are inferior. She is of good stock and rose above all obstacles. That is her American dream, the land of opportunity.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-20/black-woman-named-to-a-top-u-s-navy-job-says-wimps-fail.html

    Like

  2. Ben Emery Avatar

    Yep, strong lady. I would point to these women before her that allowed Michelle Howard to even consider joining the Navy let alone achieve any kind of ranking.
    http://www1.cuny.edu/portal_ur/content/womens_leadership/black_suffrage.html
    I think this is where the divide comes from on our part. Nothing goes from A to Z without taking steps B-Y first. When we are on point A we fight for point Z and we achieve point B. Always keeping our eyes on the prize and fighting for it. We as white males don’t need to feel guilty about the past we only need not stand in the way of moving forward.
    Eyes On The Prize (Mavis Staples)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZWdDI_fkns

    Like

  3. fish Avatar
    fish

    We as white males don’t need to feel guilty about the past we only need not stand in the way of moving forward.
    Well….this special dispensation is certainly a departure from your previous stance!
    When did you decide to cancel the denunciations and show trials Ben?

    Like

  4. Ben Emery Avatar

    George,
    “Texas legislature’s attempt to pass a women’s health bill was disrupted by an “unruly mob” of liberals. Gov Perry vows to push it through in a later session with more security present.”
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/28/us/texas-abortion-law/
    Just follow the thread on your post on the “two bodies problem”. Ryan Mount made a very sincere attempt at pulling your definition of the second body but you danced around it. I didn’t read the entire thread but read enough attempts to see you did not want to answer that question.
    I am in full agreement with Ryan on that thread on the issue of abortion. Last resort but ultimately it is a poverty issue once again. Women of means will have no problem seeking a safe procedure while poor women will die.
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2012/10/abortion-and-the-two-bodies-problem.html

    Like

  5. Ben Emery Avatar

    Sorry Fish,
    It is nothing different than what I have been saying in so many different ways for a couple years now. Being accused of white guilt many times here on RR. Nothing for me to feel guilty about but continuing to stand in the way of equality and justice for all is something most definitely something to feel guilty about.

    Like

  6. fish Avatar
    fish

    It’s exactly different. I imagine you find that “saying in so many different ways” is awfully convenient when you need to change your position. I may have judged you too harshly Ben….I think you have what it takes to be part of today’s “flexible” Democratic Party.

    Like

  7. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Wow Brother Ben, I have to tip my hat off to you. Great song you posted from You Tube. I liked it so much that I played it not once, not twice, but 3 times with the music cranked up and got me dancing. That be my kind of music. Keep your eyes on the Prize, hold on. Hold on!
    Yes, we go from A-Z step by step. Or, as a dear wise cleaning lady once told me, its not about going from point A to point B, its a matter of simply leaving Point A.
    All people who leave Point A have courage. I know this because to face and overcome obstacles is the ornament on the tree of courage. Yes, no need to constantly bring up the Deep South in the 50’s or pre-Women’s Suffrage. We never forget, but we are moving on. Otherwise, without courage and faith in something, challenges will become insurmountable and they will always be there until they are breached and we walk along until the next huge boulder lies before us. If we don’t get past that next hurdle, then we will face it time and time again in various forms and and presentations and it will not simply disappear. Once we climb over the next hurdle, there will be yet another one in our path. They built the Great Wall of China one stone at a time and all that stuff.
    Nobody can provide the chutzpah to get off the pity pot/sofa. Circumstances and mentors may provide the catalyst to leave point A, but it must ultimately come from within. One place where you and I part ways is I see you bringing a horse to water and I reply “But, you can’t make him drink.”
    This is one nation that was founded solely upon ideals. Those ideals are open for any individual to embrace, no matter their position in life. Not all will achieve or overcome, but hope burns eternal within the bosom of mankind. Thus I lean toward rugged individualism and faith and courage to address challenges, while you appear to embrace tackling society’s ills as the primary solution to obstacles. Either way (right, wrong, or indifferent) that song lifted my lowly spirits tonight. Keep your eyes on the prize, hold on.

    Like

  8. Ben Emery Avatar

    George and his minions believe each individual is pretty much on their own. At the same time do not want American workers to be able to earn a decent living wage.
    An exchange between George and myself. Fish here is an example of how I conducted myself in the early months of my participation on RR. Until months of snide remarks from others and George in his own way finally wore me out.
    01 June 2011
    George,
    You are making the claim that American workers need to compete with third world nations.
    I moment of clarity just hit me. I am not saying this in a negative context at all but a statement of reality. You seemed to be very comfortable with your positions and are honest.
    A global labor market is a perfect way to create laissez-faire/ Ayn Rand style capitalism. All labor will be competing for bottom end wages/ benefits.
    Is this the idea? The makers and takers social dichotomy. 01 June 2011 at 09:13 PM
    BenE – I am indeed making that claim about American workers as long as we must import the stuff that maintains an acceptable quality of life for us.
    I am reminded that we will be no richer – indeed, we will be poorer – if we attempt to create wealth by sealing our borders, and then mandate that a person emptying bed pans will be paid the same as an engineer designing a new medical scanning system.
    Returning to Eisler’s Caring Economics: her ideas were presaged by B.F. Skinner (father of behaviourism and operant conditioning) in his ‘Walden Two’ published soon after WW2. It’s a good read, and not too long.

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  9. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 1016pm – not sure what question you claim I didn’t answer.

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  10. Ben Emery Avatar

    George,
    You answered the question. Again I am currently just stating what I have come to learn of your and four or five “conservative” regulars ideology at the moment.
    This might not mean anything to you but I will say it again, although I find your ideology appalling I do not equate a person political leanings to their worth as a human being. My guess is you are a good man, good husband/ father, and caring citizen that has a very different approach to achieve goals we both agree upon.
    And yes I do mean authoritarian fascist/ corporatist blog in a derogatory way but really I am must trying to put stamp on what is discussed at RR as a regular discourse like they are supported ideas. Just as you do with the progressive label.

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  11. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    I guess I am totally confused by BenE’s definitions. For instance, I know George and myself are for the Constitution and the rule of law yet BenE calls us “fascists”. BenE, please define the obvious conflict I see in your comments.
    Then BenE says “My guess is you are a good man, good husband/ father, and caring citizen”… Now BenE, where do you get your accusations from when even you admit this? You see BenE, you are simply misguided. A victim of your own avarice. You do not work within the society but are a constant complainant of it. If you were an entrepreneur, hell, even an employee of McDonald’s, you would better understand the folly of your ridiculous views.
    I would say that George probaly donates more to the poor in a year than you have all your life (he just is quiet about it). He does this becasue he is a doer. You are a taker BenE so you really have no real world experience in these things.
    But it is Christmas tome and I will wish your misguided and ridiculous opinions and Very Merry One.

    Like

  12. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Mr. Juvinall. A reasoned response. Lest I forget, Merry Christmas to you this fine year.
    I believe that Brother Ben does not realize that many of the slave owners he decries in the fast food industry are actually franchise owners. Them franchises cost a bundle and most have to hock their homes, take out huge loans from the bank and friends, and sell their left nut just to get a foot in the door. Once in, there are massive contract agreements that must follow including spending so many dollars on advertising and keeping bathrooms pristine. Not cheap for the little guy who pays slave wages. You know the guy who lays awake at night wondering how he will come up with another 90k by Friday to pay the banks and employees. Its easy to use blanket statesmen decrying Mickey D’s until you open the hood. Wonder why Wendy’s and Jack-in-the -Box are left out of the wholesale condemnation of The Golden Arches? Yep, I digress again. Never mind these places pay more than the evil minimum wage.
    So, Mr. Juvinall, have a good year. And don’t let Mr. Gerry Pelline or Mr. Jeff Fedor bug ya too much. As that dynamic duo would say, LOL! Boy, his LOL’s get old, but his writing style never changes. Remember to sit on a big fat happy face now and then. Cheers.

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  13. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Mr. BillT, Merry and Happy to you as well. I think BenE is just ignorant about life. He must get his info from Das Kapital of the Anarchists Handbook. Even his questions are totally inane and without merit. But he is why America has failed its young in the education process. The system is turning out too mnay BenE’s. People who want to take the stuff of those that work, then skim some for themselves and pass the rest on to “takers”. I can see why that would be a racket BenE would be attracted to. It frees him up to cut and paste Marx in every post!
    The other “sock puppets” are too funny. They think they have something but they nly have air.

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  14. Ben Emery Avatar

    Bill and Todd,
    If you look at a single company than you opposition is justified but if you look at big picture your opposition doesn’t hold water. But I will leave it alone because you have made my point once again.

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  15. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    BenE, honestly dude, you are delusional. Capitalism has been the greatest boon to removing people from poverty in the history of the planet. Corporations are simply a conglomerate of people. Tell us BenE, how do you feel about a “Credit Union”? Are they bad? They are the repository of people’s money. Once they get enough they lend it out to those who need say, a car. That vehicle that gets them to work. So, the “Savings and Loan” is simply a banking corporation under a set of laws and rules. Give us your detailed Wiki copy paste on how you feel or regard a Credit Union.
    You are just the gift that keeps on giving BenE. Your opinions are anti-freedom.

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  16. Ben Emery Avatar

    Continuing off of the comment 23 December 2013 at 05:57 AM
    Walmart, Nike, Gap, Old Navy, Banana Republic,
    http://www.theearthcenter.com/templates/firefly/archives/ffarchivessweatshops1.html
    In the United States the practice and legality of slavery ended with the Civil War along with Constitutional Amendments. Today in western nations we support a different type of slavery, wage slavery.
    The wages being fought for are a monthly minimum wage. If we average out hours worked with compensation garment workers are being offering $0.40 an hour in Cambodia.
    http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/strike-picks-steam
    Up until now the garment worker wages was $61 a month or $0.25 an hour. Walmart and H&M shut down a garment factory without notice and refused to pay their workers $200,000 of back wages until they lost in a lawsuit.
    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/rights/cambodian-workers-win-200000-settlement-wal-mart-hm

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  17. Ben Emery Avatar

    Todd,
    Credit Unions are cooperative and not for profit, big difference. Do you understand what that means?
    Since we are in the season watch “Its A Wonderful Life” and compare the philosophies between Potter and Bailey. I side with Bailey and you side with Potter.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4ne13Zft9Q

    Like

  18. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    BenE, you are too funny. I tell you about a SansL like Bailey represents and somehow I am for Potter. No wonder you are lonely. You do all the thinking and talking for yourself and the person you are with. What a hoot.
    A Sand L is exactley what I said it is and if you are for Bailey, you are a scumbag capitalist. Just like me and the rest here. Bailey makes loans from the deposits others make and then they make a profit off the interest they charge on the loans. My GOD man, get an education!

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  19. Ben Emery Avatar

    Todd,
    Can your pea-brain comprehend incentives actual change the mission, vision, and policies of institutions?
    Your limited view of capitalism is unreal.
    Here you go big guy, a link that will explain credit unions for you.
    http://www.mycreditunion.gov/about-credit-unions/Pages/How-is-a-Credit-Union-Different-than-a-Bank.aspx

    Like

  20. Ben Emery Avatar

    Todd,
    Can your pea-brain comprehend that the incentive changes the mission, vision, and policies of institutions? The point of the Potter vs Bailey clip is to show even within the same business their are different philosophies. The Bailey’s ran the business while Potter sat on the board trying every chance he could to shut it down so he could gain full control over the town.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZjT_90Ny2c
    Go ahead and search through all my comments anywhere and everywhere and it will be almost impossible to find a criticism outside large corporations and industries, including banking.I am not against business, I am against unaccountable business whose incentives have shifted from product/ service to bottom line profits and power.

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  21. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    BenE, all that I pointed out to you went in one ear and out the other. There was not a bit of lingering time. The answer is if people have two similar businesses the one that caters to the will of the customers, gives good service and a good return, will do better. That is capitalism. You really need to go back to school and study up. You do not understand even the basic rudimentary things here. My goodness.
    I do not have a “pea brain” as you say Ben Emery, my brain is more like wow brain.

    Like

  22. Ben Emery Avatar

    Todd,
    From your S&L lesson above it appears to me that is the way you believe the financial services industry works. No mention of large commercial banking institutions, fractional reserve banking, federal reserve, investment banking, commodity speculation, compound interest, and no outside forces or hostile takeover just a very simplified version of a sector within financial services that has been decimated by large banking. As we have shifted away from the very good financial service industry regulations of FDR administrations we have seen an explosion in consolidation, corruption, economic bubbles, private and public debt. During the Reagan Revolution the financial deregulation coupled with anti trust laws being ignored we experienced the merger and acquisition era of the 1980’s, do you remember that? We have followed those policies in every administration since and what we have today is a very dysfunctional form of capitalism and governance in the US. Of, By, and For big business/ industry, which will lead me how you guys are fascist/ corporatist.
    Not a single issue stands by itself let alone an entire industry filled with working parts. How to come up with the causation and thus solutions of these problems we have to reflect on the thinking of the day of society in its macro sense not try to make mountains out of mole hills by getting trapped at the micro level.
    My wife and I ran a successful small business for years, thanks for the lessons pops.

    Like

  23. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Well BenE, you are still wet behind the ears with a lot of learning to do but you are already stuck in your ways. I give you a simple example and you just don’t have the smarts to figure it out apparently.
    Keep trying.
    Where is the successful business you ran?

    Like

  24. Ben Emery Avatar

    Todd,
    You gave an over simplified example of how financial services in the US operate and then an even more simplified example of how business works.
    We sold it. The last month the new owner made a profit was the my last month managing it for him, I left due to an emergency. He basically let me run the daily operations why he sat back in the office because his dealing with average people skills were something to be desired. Very nice man but appeared to have very little high volume costumer service experience. He had a business degree and corporate experience from a city on the east coast and thought he knew better than 12 years of records and experience we offered him. It was in a tourist town with distinct seasons, which he did not plan for and the first slow season on his own put the business in a downward slide. Didn’t have the funds to restock before the tourists started showing up again so he had limited product to sell. It was a shame because it was a good business that the locals really liked and he was a nice man that got in over his head.

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  25. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    BenE, what was the business? How many employees and what was the dollars earned, gross and net.

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  26. Ben Emery Avatar

    None of your business on some of those questions. Food Service/ Restaurant at peak season we would have up to 20 employees. Put it to you this way, we earned a comfortable living while the “fine dining” establishments came and went many times over. We catered to locals, backpackers, and festival goers on limited budgets. Our average sell was under $10. Never made a killing but always earned a decent living. Owned a home, raising a family, health care, took vacations and had a basic IRA going. If you haven’t ever owned a restaurant you are lying the restaurant owns you.

    Like

  27. Ben Emery Avatar

    correction
    If you say you HAVE ever owned a restaurant you are lying, the restaurant owned you.

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  28. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    I can’t wait until somebody puts some hot lead in Bailey’ noggin, just for fun. I love Mr. Potter. He was misunderstood and stood up to those rabble-rousers and also cherished the rule of law, unlike Bailey. Bailey was just some soulless wife beating spastic.

    Like

  29. Ben Emery Avatar

    Right on cue, Bill. Of course you like Potter, his inability to feel sympathy towards others is actually pretty funny. How a person can be so oblivious to the circumstances of others always amazes me, even in fiction.
    Take a lesson from “It’s A Wonderful Life” – Move Your Money
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT6ZGKPk9Cw

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  30. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Potter gets his in the afterlife BenE. You believe in GOD don’t you. He is the judge, right?

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  31. Ben Emery Avatar

    But in the process Potter promotes suffering for those on earth needlessly.
    I do believe in GOD but do not believe GOD is a he or she. The creator is so great we cannot even begin to understand what GOD really is but we know GOD is within all of us and everything.
    Here is the funny thing Todd. I try to treat others with compassion, sympathy, and respect not because it has to be done for an afterlife but rather because it is the most rewarding way to live in the life we have now.

    Like

  32. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    BenE, you should follow your own advice. So, when the Bible says man was created in God’s image that could mean he is a woman? Ir some amorphous energy within us? OK, I think I understand you now.
    Regarding treating others as I would wish to be treated. Yep, that is how I live. Of course liberals have others do that for them and then sit around the campfire and toast each other for being so compassionate.

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  33. Ben Emery Avatar

    Todd,
    huMAN, MANkind, huMANity, what does “MAN” mean? Do you think it includes woman so the term “MAN” is all embracing when spoken in terms of huMAN beings?
    “Regarding treating others as I would wish to be treated. Yep, that is how I live. Of course liberals have others do that for them and then sit around the campfire and toast each other for being so compassionate.”
    Whatever dude!

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  34. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Well, So you don’t agree with the Bible BenE that man is made in the image of GOD? Woman means “out of man” so perhaps a little brushing up in Jesus would help you. I see you agree that liberals have others do their compassionate work for them. Thanks for that, I knew it was true.
    The word “woman” means “from man”. Did you know that Ben Emery? I detect some frustration in your last post. Is that because you have been unable to keep up?

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  35. Ben Emery Avatar

    Todd,
    Are you serious?
    Literally, your entire 27 December 2013 at 11:30 AM comment is ridiculous.
    Are you a person who believes the earth is only thousands of years old?

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  36. Ben Emery Avatar

    Todd,
    Are you joking?

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  37. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Ben Emery, why don’t you answer the questions? Are you afraid? Apparently. I don’t answer questions with questions like liberals do. So, read what I wrote again and answer all the questions.

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  38. Ben Emery Avatar

    Todd,
    “Literally, your entire 27 December 2013 at 11:30 AM comment is ridiculous.”
    I think this addresses your questions and comments clearly.

    Like

  39. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    So BenE, why do you not like to debate theology? Are you afraid that we will see the real you? You are such a predictable liberal. All you need to do is honestly answer the questions. Nothing more.

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  40. Ben Emery Avatar

    Afraid to debate theology? I love debating theology.
    If that is what you want to do lets get it on.
    No I don’t agree with the Bible. Let me add, any version of the Bible. The bible was written and translated many times by human beings long after the time of Jesus. Human beings are fallible. Then we are taught or preached to by other human beings on their interpretations of what the parables actually mean.

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  41. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    So you are not a Christian then BenE?

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  42. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Seriously Todd I don’t know where you get this nonsense. The word ‘woman’ does not mean ‘from man’. Even in its Old English etymology the word meant ‘female human’.
    Not only are you wrong on the meaning, if one tries to tie the word woman to ‘female’ to make your case not even the word ‘female’ means ‘from man’; it is from the Latin ‘femina’ which means woman… ‘femina’ had no etymological connection to the word for male until the 14th century when it was altered in English to parallel the spelling of the word ‘male’. Since there was no no word ‘woman’ until it was altered in English to match the word for male…long after any faux Biblical meaning you may have in mind from reading the King James version of the Bible your theory on its meaning only works if the Jews of ancient Palestine were speaking the King’s English, kind of like a Monty Python sketch.
    This is what happens when we translate Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek, into Latin, into Old English, into modern English; Ignorant people attribute meaning to things that have no meaning or are a mere accident of history.

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  43. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    TheFrisch is wrong again. Do a search and you will find I am correct and you, as usual, are a wiki junkie.
    So, butt out TheFrisch, I am talking to BenE and trying to get his views. We already know yours.

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  44. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Hey Todd, how can you say ‘do a search’ on the one hand, and call me a Wiki junkie on the other? There is nothing wrong with using the tools at our disposal to access information….would you have called someone a ‘library’ junkie…what is unique is the ability to interpret that information to reach a logical conclusion…an ability you lack.
    But, to be clear, I merely confirmed information that I gleaned from once taking a women’s literature in history course many years ago….
    And I will post here any time I want, as long as George tolerates it, so fu@# off.
    What a moron!

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  45. Ben Emery Avatar

    Steve,
    Here is how fair I am to Todd proven nonsense. I knew what he was talking about and why he would he would think such a thing, I probably thought it as well until I asked someone around the age of five years old. Anyway I searched for his definition and came up a big goose egg and then when to etymology of the word. I was correct and Todd was his usual wrong. But to try and argue that wasn’t worth my time so I called his entire comment ridiculous.

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  46. Ben Emery Avatar

    Todd
    I answered your question about the Bible.
    Now it is your turn to answer a question.
    Do you believe the bible is literal or figurative?

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  47. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    SteveFrisch, why do you insist on namecalling? Is that what your momma taught you? You need yo grow up and maybe we might listen.
    BenE. You never answered aby questions because you always know what everyone else is thinking. You and the Frisch are not Christians yet you are experts in the religion. OK, Wiki is your master I get that. Do a search and get back to us. You too lovelies re sooo funny!

    Like

  48. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Gentlemen, I will side step the origins of the word “woman” and just ramble on a few points. Make of it as you will.
    All translators of The Bible have come across the same problem. There are words in ancient texts that cannot be translated, thus footnotes stating that a particular word sounds like the oral tradition word so and so.
    Remember, the King James Bible was translated by a group of scholars under orders to get it right or death.
    There is no correct translation of the pronoun God from Hebrew to English. We simply have only one word for something that is neither male or female, that word being “it”. It would be of no service to refer to God as “it”. Before going off on the King James Bible was written by a bunch of sexist old men, it is important to remember that they were told to get it right or they would be put to death. All versions since have struggled with the exact meaning of words hence and some words are perhaps lost forever.
    Even since 1611, many English words have changed their meaning. For instance, the word conversation today used to mean conduct. The word comprehend used to mean apprehend. Miles apart in meaning. And vanity (Biblical speaking)now means emptiness.
    There is one phrase that Brother Ben has referenced that is the ultimate trump card. When debating Mormons or Jehovah Witnesses or those of the Pharisee type legalistic doctrine, that phrase is “That passage cannot be trusted.” Now, that ends all debate right there.
    Often man creates God in his own image (and understanding) rather than God created man in “his” image. That’s my story and I am sticking to it. Carry on.

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  49. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Nice to see you could break away from you life sized posters of Ruth Bader Ginsberg and Sandra Day O’Connor to comment Bill!

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