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George Rebane

‘A Future of Failure?: The Flow of Technology Talent into Government and Civil Society’ was just published by Freedman Consulting, a progressive policy consultancy run by former staffers of Democrat administrations.  This important report was sponsored by the MacArthur and Ford Foundations, organizations that are much in tune with leftwing causes and central planning.  It recognizes failures – most notably healthcare.gov – by all levels of government to understand, incorporate, and operate systems that have a high technology component.

The report is timely, given what has happen and what portends for Americans as the federal government continues to stumble and bumble in such efforts to inject themselves more and more into our lives and fortunes. Through extensive interviews with government and “civil society” (i.e. NGOs and non-profits) officials and management, the authors conclude that governments are woefully lacking in STEMM (they add ‘medicine’ for the extra ‘M’) knowledge and expertise.  RR readers will not be surprised by any of the factual aspects and even most of the conclusions in the report. 


As an erroneous example of this, they blame the healthcare.com fiasco on such shortcomings.  While their overall premise is correct, they err here because the disastrous development of that website and its IT back end had little to do with government managers’ understanding of STEMM.  What they didn’t have were the most basic skills in structuring and executing a procurement program.  The disciplines they lacked and failed to exercise would have caused them to equally screw up everything from the building of a barn to buying trucks for the military.  And indeed, these civil servant types, appointed and hired, have demonstrated such ineptitude for as long as memory serves.  That is a prime reason why it is common knowledge to all but the hard Left that government should be entrusted with as little as absolutely necessary to serve the common weal.

But back to the report.  Given the bent of the report’s authors and sponsors, their ginger treatment of established and systemic government ineptitude is understandable.  For example they observe that the reason qualified STEMM people leave government in droves and opt for private industry is that for-profit companies “may” provide higher compensation, a more stimulating work environment, and advancement based on merit.  No $h!t Red Ryder.

In spite of such softballing, the report is well written and accompanied by informative tables and graphics.  Its key findings that explain government IT related failures are summed as –

•    The Current Pipeline is Insufficient (not enough people are being educated/trained in IT and STEMM fields while our students continue to “slip” – more here),
•    Barriers to Recruitment and Retention Are Acute (no competent practitioner wants to work with C students managed by double dummies),
•    A Major Gap between the Public-Interest and For-Profit Sectors Persists (it seems that the private sector fosters “a culture of innovation, openness, and creativity that (is) seen as more appealing to technologists.”  Gasp!),
•    A Need to Examine Models from Other Fields (Yep, about time they try finding out what work is like where the motto on the wall is something other than ‘CYA all the way!’),
•    Significant Opportunity for Connection and Training (they mean connecting and being trained in the thinking and ways of dispensing largesse from government on high),
•    Culture Change is Necessary (correct, but well-nigh impossible in environments that worship stasis, eschew risk, and depend on altruistic ‘go along to get along’ behavior).

All that being said and done, this report should be viewed as an intra-progressive communication that seeks to explain a continuing and now growing stream of government failures in a world becoming ever more technology dependent.  It doesn’t and can’t come right out and say that things are as they are because such bureaucracies with perverse embedded feedback systems can only be tolerated by people who are either scheming climbers or stupid and/or ignorant.  The basic message of this remarkable document reinforces the fundamental progressive precept that a growing gush of proactive public policies, based on central planning by an expanding government, are required to deliver an acceptable quality of life to Americans.

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266 responses to “‘A Future of Failure?’ – A Timely Progressive Lament”

  1. fish Avatar
    fish

    God you make me tired!
    So lets just lay it out here.
    In general you guys are fine with
    -US full time workers to earn less than a living wage
    When it’s better than doing nothing at all yes. You’re not indentured to Wal Mart Ben…..get some work experience that you can put on a resume and move up.
    -US workers to have no unions to improve their conditions
    I’m fine with unions but between automation and foreign labor domestic labor unions have very little clout. Sorry dude….that’s just a fact of life.
    NO PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS
    -US workers not to have benefits such as full coverage health insurance
    It’s cool Ben they qualify for Obamacare. Hell, even you do!
    -US workers to compete with undeveloped labor wages/ conditions and no environmental regulations
    What would you do to change this?
    -US population in poverty to have no or very limited government assistance programs
    Well the absolute inability to prioritize spending by the government will make wide scale relief difficult going forward. Neither TEAM will tell their constituencies that there needs to be pain.
    That “public debt” that you said was beneficial a few comments back…..it’s not….and it’s coming to eat the future.
    -US corporations to have no or very limited taxes
    If you can get them to change the tax structures knock yourself out. You can’t and they won’t.
    -US wealthy to have no or very limited income taxes
    This is just blatantly false…..
    http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2013/12/rich-dont-pay-most-of-taxes-they-pay.html
    See I can post links too!
    -US industries to have no or very limited regulations
    Yeah….because if there’s one thing that will make it easier to add employees it’s more regulations.
    -US military spending to continue on its current path
    On this we’re in agreement….cut, cut, cut!
    -US government spying on Americans (just not tea party)
    Again…now you are just being disingenuous. I don’t recall any poster arguing that this is a good thing! But you go ahead and keep playing that script in your poor soft head!
    -US habeas corpus and civil liberties are selectively given
    See above
    -US seniors, widowed, or disable not to have Social Security Insurance benefits
    Who has said anything about this? I look forward to watching you dance when SS goes broke…..or when everyone gets their Emerybucks but a months worth won’t buy a decent bag of dogfood.
    -US corporations to use the labor of people who are oppressed
    As one of the anointed… you get to make this determination? As near as I can tell, you think it’s oppressive to only have three Obamaphones!
    The list can go on but we get the point.
    Yeah we do…you’re a soft headed albeit well meaning nitwit!

    Like

  2. fish Avatar
    fish

    I must be hitting too close to home to cause such cognitive dissonance. When the only retort is name calling it means I am right and you have no real answer for the issues I have raised.
    JoKe…you are a moron! Sorry dude…you mean no one told you….those happy afternoons on the short bus didn’t tip you off! There is one highlight I’d like to bring to your attention ……Uncle Jerrys not so fast choo choo….it’s all being built with union labor….they’ve budgeted 90 million dollars for the busting Madera to Fresno corridor! Maybe the special school will take you to ride it in 2052…don’t forget to wear your helmet!

    Like

  3. fish Avatar
    fish

    Crap….90 Billion. Maybe I need the helmet!

    Like

  4. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    OK JoeK, yep, you are just too smart for us. You fail to answer any of our questions and we are the dopes? Please. You are the reason America is in trouble. You spend all your grand kids money before they are even born (leaving them in tax servitude like the commies) and have no qualms about it at all. I think you are just a morally bankrupt liberal and I do pray for people like you.
    BenE. Please, you just keep the BS coming. No end to your ignorance. Did you grow up in a plastic bubble? fish nails you every time. We have the greatest country ever conceived and the people here, even the “poorest” are better off than 95% of the rest of humanity. It is simply jealousy on your part BenE. You have not achieved to possession you desire so anyone that does is just a terrible person.
    My goodness man, you need to start educating yourself about real life.

    Like

  5. Gregory Avatar

    fish, get the helmet.
    Off the top of my head: they’re pretending the outskirts of Madera to outskirts of Fresno HSR line will cost one billion; the first bond issue authorization was for $9 billion, the total cost end to end is said to be $68 billion.
    In other words, expect something closer to $155 billion in total.
    Ben 11:57
    I’m “fine” with little of that, it’s just that your prescriptions are worse than the disease. You just know so little, much of that is in error, and your ability to reason in a rational manner is abysmally low. You’re 11:57 is a case in point: you can’t make a reasoned argument for any single one of those points, though ‘fish’ helped you with a couple of them.
    Can anyone spot the Ben?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ukak8P2vY
    Film buffs who aren’t into Python (Monty) may be amused to see the renowned director Terry Gilliam holding the staff with the banner in the background.

    Like

  6. Gregory Avatar

    Damn, an improper “you’re” got by me in that one. Call it a Ben moment.

    Like

  7. fish Avatar
    fish

    You’re 11:57…..
    Maddening isn’t it!

    Like

  8. Gregory Avatar

    Ben,
    Before it gets lost completely, how about expanding upon your pronouncement of Algebra being a useless subject (12 December 2013 at 09:11 AM)? I’m not sure how one could decide algebra was useless unless there was something about the 12th century one would prefer over modern times, but I am willing to consider it. Personally, I prefer Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s observation that the best time in human history to choose to live would be anytime after the invention of Novocaine.

    Like

  9. fish Avatar
    fish

    I prefer Daniel Patrick Moynihan’s observation that the best time in human history to choose to live would be anytime after the invention of Novocaine.
    As someone who received Novocaine just last week, I say without hesitation, that it has my full endorsement!

    Like

  10. Paul Emery Avatar

    Ben re: 07:18 PM
    Thanks for reintroducing the Myth of Ronald Reagan who along with Papa Bush tripled our national debt.
    George 09:58 AM
    I assume you believe that the burdens of national health care on the economies of every nations that assumes that path will put them on the path of becoming another North Korea. That view is also consistent with you along with Sen Santorum equating Obamacare with Apartheid. There is no other way that view can be sustained since no reasonable observer would view them equally as you seem to do.
    Well the Sierra Reptile is back Here is a person equating my service in the Air Force Reserves with his stay home with the kids values to avoid service in the VietNam War which was all ra ra about. Funny thing about this is that his kids were not even born yet when he could have volunteered to serve.

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  11. fish Avatar
    fish

    Thanks for reintroducing the Myth of Ronald Reagan who along with Papa Bush tripled our national debt.
    The best part was how Reagan would literally drag democrats to the capitol and physically force them to vote for appropriations…..that was awesome!

    Like

  12. Paul Emery Avatar

    Re-write:
    Ben re: 07:18 PM
    Thanks for reintroducing the Myth of Ronald Reagan who along with Papa Bush tripled our national debt in 12 years.
    George 09:58 AM
    I assume you believe that the burdens of national health care on the economies of every nations that assumes that path will put them on the road to becoming another North Korea. That view is also consistent with your view, along with Sen Santorum equating Obamacare with Apartheid. There is no other way that view can be sustained since no reasonable observer would view them equally as you seem to do.
    Todd writes to Ben Emery:
    “My goodness man, you need to start educating yourself about real life.”
    Well the Sierra Reptile is back Here is a person equating my service in the Air Force Reserves with his stay home with the kids values to avoid service in the VietNam War which was all ra ra about. Funny thing about this is that his kids were not even born yet when he could have volunteered to serve. Those that live in glass houses…….

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  13. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 344pm – Wow! That kind of logic, if widely shared by progressives, sure explains away the Washington gridlock.

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  14. Paul Emery Avatar

    Well George please explain your support of Santorum’s equating the battle against Obamacare with the battle against Apartheid. That’s the way I read it but I can be corrected with a reasonable explanation on your part of your view.

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  15. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Uh Oh. look out everyone, Paul Emery is off his meds again. He seems to repeat his slights to all whenever he sleeps in and forgot to call the pharmacist. LOL!
    So, let me see PaulE, your criticism of me means what? That you, a person who slammed George Bush for as you claim, was ducking the Guard for a year (where he learned to fly a jet plane) and not going to Vietnam, to your belonging to the Reserves and doing the same thing as Bush? That is it, I have solved the hatred you have for Bush! You did the same thing you say he did. OK, got it. You psychiatrists out there should send a proze to me.
    Regarding me and not serving. Yes I did not serve in the military, I was 326 in the lottery. So, I did not get picked since they took up to 119 that year. So, I did not go to Vietnam. A war you say was illegal and wrong and were oppoese to. OK, you got me. I will go wail. But Paul baby, I will not be quiet. I will still exercise my free speech. You and the phony Gerry Fedor can go have cocktails and pretend you are smart. Yoo funny.

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  16. Paul Emery Avatar

    The difference between George Bush and me is that I finished my six years and did not bail out of the last year or so. You waved the flag and sent out others to support your war. A true patriot.

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  17. Gregory Avatar

    Ah, myths indeed.
    Every single one of Reagan’s budgets were declared dead on arrival by his Democratic Speakers and replaced with larger ones, and Bush the First only approved tax hikes because his Democratic Speaker promised spending cuts that, along with his homework, were later eaten by his puppy, never to be seen on the floor of the House.
    Spending was unabated until adult supervision was elected and yes, in comparison, Newt was adult supervision.
    No, I didn’t vote for either Reagan part 1 or 2, or for HW.

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  18. Ben Emery Avatar

    So lets start connecting the dots.
    Supply Side Economics or Reaganomics were the idea if you gave the wealthy or corporations more money it would trickle down through the economy to working class people. Capital creates jobs not wages.
    2012 saw the largest inequality gap since the 1920’s, which means the wealthy are holding most of the wealth. Yet the main st economy is struggling, workers pay have stagnated for 30 years, health insurance prior to ACA had skyrocketed, higher education skyrocketed, housing skyrocketed, and the middle class shrunk.
    Deregulation is part of Supply Economics. Deregulation was the number one factor in the most current financial crisis, which was pushed through by both political parties.

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  19. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    PaulE, while you were dodging Vietnam I was raising a family and paying taxes. You and Bush are the same in your view of the facts. Too funny!

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  20. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    One more thing PaulE. Go through BenE’s list above up back and like fish tell us all what you think about each bullet point. I know you won’t do it but it would be great for all to see exactly what a great “patriot” you are.

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  21. Paul Emery Avatar

    Todd
    For the enlightenment of our readers can you share what year your first child was born?

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  22. Ben Emery Avatar

    Dang Paul,
    I didn’t realize your grandfather was a Nazi supporter who became a US Senator that got you into the Champagne Unit and then you went AWOL. With that kind of past Todd nailed you for being such a hypocrite.
    How Bush’s grandfather helped Hitler’s rise to power
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

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  23. Gregory Avatar

    “Supply Side Economics or Reaganomics were the idea if you gave the wealthy or corporations more money it would trickle down through the economy to working class people. Capital creates jobs not wages.”
    Neither sentence is true, Ben, just more caricatures no more true than thinking the Bens of the world want all profits of big business confiscated and “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need”.
    Ooops, the last one might be what you think. Is it?
    Supply side and Reagonomics was borne of the Laffer Curve (unassailable in its basic form) and the thought that, at the time, the economy would best be stimulated by removing tax impediments and regulatory relief.

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  24. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 404pm – Now why would I even presume to touch that purported equivalency to which you assign my “support”? You must be really hard up for entertainment to make that request. It’s kinda like my asking you to defend ‘your’ assertion that Obamacare and the Danish healthcare system are equivalent?

    Like

  25. Gregory Avatar

    “[R]umours about the alleged Nazi ‘ties’ of the late Prescott Bush … have circulated widely through the internet in recent years. These charges are untenable and politically motivated … Prescott Bush was neither a Nazi nor a Nazi sympathiser.”
    The Anti-Defamation League, at the end of the article Ben didn’t finish reading.
    No one here is “off their meds” but one of the sources of Ben’s decade old Guardian article on the supposed Bush-Hitler connection literally was. Scroll down to John Buchanan. Sorry Ben, the reason you had to dredge out a Guardian piece from 2004 is there was no there, there. Guilt by disassociation is hard to prove especially when the Anti-Defamation League is on your side.

    Like

  26. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Calling someone a Nazi is no laughing matter, nor should the label ever ever be taken lighty. Nor should the word Nazi ever be tossed around hap-hazardly. Never, you anal cavities. I had a relative who died in the Nazi dead camps you morons. He was young, talented, extremely good looking and had his whole life ahead of him. He got drunk one night and fell out of the guard tower.

    Like

  27. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    PaulE, my child was born June 5, 1970.
    Tell us Paul Emery. How many children have you raised and had in your life?

    Like

  28. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Ben Emery, why would you call Paul Emery a Nazi?

    Like

  29. fish Avatar
    fish

    Plucked from todays headlines:
    CHINA LANDS ON MOON……. United States still tinkering with its health care website
    …and in local news…..

    Like

  30. Fuzz Avatar
    Fuzz

    As we join the latest episode of Hurricane in a Teacup, we see Sky Fuzz swoop down to the political sandbox in his EPA approved, solar powered glider and scoop up Paul, Ben, and Joe. “Come along boys, we’ll come back after they’ve had their naps.” Meanwhile, fish, Gregory, Scott, Todd, and Bill angrily pound their little shovels and wave their pails. With their favorite targets gone, they divide up into centrist Republicans and true conservatives and begin throwing sand at each other. “What’s worse?…. I say it’s Obamacare!… Well I say it’s the federal debt!!……(sand flying in all directions). Then they raise their shovels in unison and shout, “Come back here you socialist libholes! …. ignorant cowards! …. bastards! Just then, Ted Cruz walks up and they all raise their arms wanting to be picked up first. Instead, he sits down, opens a book and begins reading…..”Do you like green eggs and ham. I do not like them, Sam-I-am. I do not like them in a house. I do not like them with a mouse.” Soon the boys have nodded off in each other’s arms and all is quiet….. except for Todd’s snoring.
    Sorry guys, I just couldn’t resist 🙂 Now, back to fighting!

    Like

  31. fish Avatar
    fish

    With their favorite targets gone….
    The targets are here of their own volition Fuzz….in Bens case I believe he thinks he’s “doin the lords work” bringing the “word” to the heathen.
    At least you’re good natured about it!

    Like

  32. Ben Emery Avatar

    The same problem with the John Galt crowd faces in our actually reality. Who does the grunt work? Those who serve the food, wash the dishes, dig the coal, ring you up at the counter, stock the shelves, make the clothes, produce the food, ect… all need to live and survive. Which means shelter, clothes, nutritious food, medical, and retirement. You guys want US workers to compete with workers who work 60 hours a week for $61 a month wages with no benefits. In the mean time you want millionaires and billionaires who already have enough to live on for multiple lifetimes to have more because in your twisted world view they will pay the people who actual create the wealth fairly.
    Evil

    Like

  33. fish Avatar
    fish

    Well Ben again you partially answer your own question. Who does the work? It would seem that more foreigners and machines will do much of the “grunt” work as you put it.
    If you can lead a worldwide campaign to not have foreigners do this work….frequently for less than American workers, but often for “reasonable” lifestyles in their own countries….than you have truly found your calling. If like the US, these people do this work and gradually evolve out of it, that will follow the historically evident path. As for the unskilled American workers I would think that you would celebrate the fact that they can acquire some skills by working for a Wal Mart while still retaining the ability to access social services. Your “goal” to have an uneducated, unskilled worker pull down 80K a year putting Pringles on the shelf is delusional…as is much of your understanding of economics.
    As evidenced by your “8 year old girls” worldview you think that you can pin down enough of the “evul rich” to alleviate the worlds suffering…..you can’t.
    I don’t have to defend the rich, all I have to do is acknowledge that they exist and understand that that’s just that way it is.
    That’s reality Ben.

    Like

  34. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    So BenE, who should do the grunt work? When I was starting out in the work world at age 13 I did the grunt work and was happy to do it. Of course I knew this was temporary and I was motivated to improve myself, both physically and mentally and economically. I come from a lower middle class background so I know hard work. I would suggest before you make a further ass of yourself with your generalities about who comprises the “Galt” floks, that you go back and read the books. Then when you have removed your head from the dark place, come back.
    When I was in Puerto Vallarta this last September I learned the “minimum wage” in Mexico is 10 bucks….a day! So maybe you should mosey down to Mexico and take them on. Fuzz can go too since there is a lot of white sand for him to play in. But those Mexicans may not let you not work. No free lunch there for slackers.

    Like

  35. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    Here is some reality — a recent study using MRIs and brain scans shows that children who live in poverty have less developed brains by the age of 4 than other children. “Children in poor families lagged behind in the development of the parietal and frontal regions of the brain — deficits that help explain behavioral, learning and attention problems more common among disadvantaged children.” Possible reasons cited were poor nutrition, parental stress due to poverty, and most importantly, a lack of books and educational toys that stimulate brain function. Conclusion: as a society we might want to do more to eliminate poverty because in the long run it is more cost effective than having to provide public services and prison beds to adults with under functioning brain issues caused by poverty.

    Like

  36. fish Avatar
    fish

    Here is some reality….
    The war on poverty has been waged for some 50 years at multi trillion dollar cost. The poverty rate is a moving target, it allows the government to claim both incredible success when the serfs show reluctance to continue funding programs of questionable efficacy and let’s them whine for more money when things ain’t going so great…which is most of the time. Much like the war on drugs it’s a perfect government program….it can never succeed and will never completely fail!
    The success percentage change from program inception to present day…3%. From 19% when that scumbag Lyndon Johnson forced it through to now….16%
    Orwell couldn’t have conceived better.

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  37. Paul Emery Avatar

    So Todd If I was a draft dodger then Bush and all other reservists were as well right? But of course not you.

    Like

  38. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Brother Ben, Brother Ben, my dear sweet Brother Ben;
    “Who does the grunt work? Those who serve the food, wash the dishes, dig the coal, ring you up at the counter, stock the shelves, make the clothes, produce the food, ect..”
    Easy answer my friend with the super sized big ole heart. Who does the grunt work? The fairer sex, of course. Next question please.

    Like

  39. Gregory Avatar

    Speaking of “socialist bastards”, the latest school shooter apparently qualified for that label.
    Regarding JoKe’s 10:56:
    “Children in poor families lagged behind in the development of the parietal and frontal regions of the brain — deficits that help explain behavioral, learning and attention problems more common among disadvantaged children.” Possible reasons cited were …”
    Anyone else notice that “stupid parents”, affecting both nature and nurture, wasn’t in the list of possible reasons?

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  40. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Paul;E I never called you a “draft dodger”, where did you get that?
    My point is, I am repeating this for the umpteenth time for you. You allege Bush was absent from his duties aas a reservist so he could keep from going to Vietnam. You did the same thing yet don’t recognize your similarities to Bush because yu have BDS. There is that better?
    I was never in the service so I have no idea why you joined the reserves, only you do. I do know others that joined so they would not be sent to Vietnam. Could that be your reason?

    Like

  41. fish Avatar
    fish

    Oh my….that’s funny….”The Peoples Budget”……(snicker)….who does your marketing? Staple the phrase, “the Peoples” to anything and your promotional literature might as well just show pretty pictures of the camps…lovely descriptions of guard dogs and truncheons.
    I’d be careful Ben, you come to be known by those whose ideas you endorse! The EPI …..a veritable rogues gallery of state worship with all the accompanying budgetary hand waving. Nice!
    In the first half of the twentieth century, the power-seeking Middle class dispensed with the pretence of pursuing justice for everyone: “In each variant of Socialism that appeared from about 1900 onwards the aim of establishing liberty and equality was more and more openly abandoned. The new movements which appeared in the middle years of the century . . . had the conscious aim of perpetuating unfreedom and inequality”; because the true goal was to end history upon becoming the perpetual High ruling class – composed not of aristocrats or plutocrats, but of “bureaucrats, scientists, technicians, trade-union organizers, publicity experts, sociologists, teachers, journalists and professional politicians” originally from “the salaried middle class and the upper grades of the working class”.
    Which of course leads to:
    “Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness; only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?”

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  42. Paul Emery Avatar

    Todd
    Your branding me as a Draft Dodger is well documented on these pages as is my branding you as a Chicken Hawk.

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  43. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    PaulE, funny how things get transposed. You served in the Reserves to avoid Vietnam and now hate America, I never served (but would have if drafted) and love my country. Get it bud?

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  44. Ben Emery Avatar

    George Rebane and his few followers support Arizona “show your papers” Law in its original form.
    authoritarian – favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, esp. that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.
    “BenE 1139am – Yes I support SB1070. Now how does that make me and half the people of this country not support civil liberties and become pariahs in the eyes of the Left?” 10 June 2013 at 11:48 AM
    Once again people with brown skin not being able to hide the star of david are the targets of such laws. I remember a full US Citizen was arrested for not having his papers. He was a truck driver with an accent due to living in spanish speaking part of the United States.
    Arizona Channel 3 News Coverage
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSzxjd3B8Ik
    The answer to immigration is
    1) E Verify
    2) Enforcement on major industries of illegal employment
    3) Creating worker program for seasonal workers to be able to return home after season is finished
    Throw some CEO’s and executives in prison for their illegal hiring practices would take care of the problem at the source instead of the ridiculous idea of trying to round up millions of illegal or undocumented immigrants. But those executives and CEO’s have very strong representation in our bought off government so the ridiculous policies continue.
    No Jobs No Immigration it is how most everywhere else on the planet deals with the immigration issue. Make it hard to find a job. My wife when living in Europe had to turn her passport over at the local police station when arriving in town and had to have proof of employment or a way to sustain herself while in their country.

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  45. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    No crack smoking and commenting allowed.

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  46. Gregory Avatar

    “After all, even in Egypt, the Pharohs
    Had to import Hebrew Braceros.”
    -Tom Lehrer “George Murphy”
    Ben, how about crucifixion for homeowners who hire illegals outside the Home Depot?

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  47. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 413am – that is your best and only support of your claim that RR subscribes to an authoritarian belief system. What you may have missed from your studious receipt of news from MSNBC is that Arizona’s law was nothing but a SUBSET of federal statues, which by your assessment must be autocratic. Well enough, now we know.

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  48. Ben Emery Avatar

    Greg,
    Usually home owners don’t exploit those workers. How about the food service industry being held accountable for their illegal practices? 700,000 illegal workers it is thought to employ.
    Or how about poultry industry?
    Poultry Workers
    http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/injustice-on-our-plates
    “Almost a quarter of the workers who butcher and process meat, poultry and fish are undocumented.13
    At least half of the 250,00014 laborers in 174 of the major U.S. chicken factories are Latino and more than half are women.15
    Working in a chicken factory is one of the most dangerous occupations in America. Line workers endure a frigid and wet work environment, without adequate bathroom breaks, while being exposed to numerous hazards handling chicken on hangers that whiz by a rate of hundreds per minute. The Occupational Safety and Health Administration has not enacted any regulation to limit the speed at which poultry and meat processing lines operate — despite the appallingly high rates of injury directly attributable to the line speed. In the decade ending in 2008, 100 poultry workers died in the U.S., and 300,000 were injured, many suffering the loss of a limb or debilitating repetitive motion injuries.16
    The U.S. Department of Labor surveyed 51 poultry processing plants and found 100% had violated labor laws by not paying employees for all hours worked. Also, one-third took impermissible deductions from workers’ pay.17”

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  49. Ben Emery Avatar

    George,
    There doesn’t seem to be a law that profile, endangers, and strips brown skin people of their rights that you don’t support. It might be law but that doesn’t mean it is less authoritarian. Don’t worry George I have plenty more examples of fascist/ corporatist and authoritarian leanings and positions. I will try and post one a day for awhile until the idea hits home that outside of the American Revolution you take the side of authority almost every time.
    You wanted examples so I am giving the examples. Let me ask you did you take the side of Reagan, Cheney, Bush, and the side of the very split republican congress and demonize Nelson Mandela while he was in jail for not strictly obeying apartheid laws?
    If your current stances on such kinds of laws indicate anything you were cheering Reagan’s veto of the sanctions on White South Africa oppressive government. Now i bet you are in favor of harsh sanctions against Iran.

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  50. Gregory Avatar

    Life in the real world isn’t Disneyland, Ben. Buy California chicken rather than Georgia imports, CalOSHA is all over the locals, but meatcutting has always been a nasty business and it may always be so.
    Someday there could be robots to do it and there will be one more thing the underclasses won’t be able to do to earn a living. The faster you increase labor costs, the faster that will happen. Would that make you happy?

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