Rebane's Ruminations
November 2013
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George Rebane

For decades we have seen those yellow diamond shaped signs in the back windows of cars admonishing us to ‘Drive Carefully, Baby Aboard’.  Years ago as a young father, I puzzled over the first such sign that I spied.  Its message was clear, ‘this car is transporting a human whose life is worth more than that of the run-of-mill human life, therefore extra effort should be made to preserve it’.  I recall that a moment’s reflection made me say to myself, no it ain’t.  A couple of thoughts later I concluded that in the larger scheme of things that baby’s life is worth less than the run-of-mill lives we all encounter in the daily round, including our own.

ValueofLifeMost certainly that conclusion is true if we consider the baby’s ‘replacement value’ – you can make a new one in nine months – or its worth to society in the investment made, or the investment still required to civilize the little guy and educate him to productivity.

In my way of reasoning, I thought a more appropriate sign in the back window should read ‘Drive Carefully, A STEM Worker Aboard’, or ‘…, An Established Taxpayer Aboard’, or something similar.  It was clear to me that of all the other more demonstrably accomplished lives driving down a crowded freeway, the babies strapped into their car seats represented the least valuable expressions of humanity when viewed from the larger perspective of a community or society in general.


And from that greater vantage, societies have historically vindicated that valuation in how they have chosen to treat their young – depriving them of liberties and other social franchises, working them at the lowest compensation rates, and sending them to bear the brunt of battles.  After all, as a resource, in them we are least invested, they are still ignorant and malleable (willing to sacrifice themselves for glory), and their replacement cost is minimal.  (more here)

The received wisdom is that human life is precious beyond compense.  But that is patently false since daily we allow bureaucrats to exercise public policies in ways that allows any numerate person to compute the marginal dollar value we put on different kinds of lives.  For example, how many more miles of life-saving concrete center dividers could we have emplaced for the cost of highway landscaping or decorative sound walls?  We can compute the expected lives so saved, and attribute the cost of alternative spending across those lives to get a dollar worth of a life we are willing to expend in order to enjoy a more beautiful roadside.  And you haven’t seen anything yet until we sharpen our pencils to run some numbers on the decisions made in dispensing Obamacare.

Philosophers, sociologists, and other thinkers have considered the problem of the relative worth of human life within questions of social ethics and morality.  A popular category of thought problems in this endeavor is called ‘trolleyology’ of which there are now many variants that have been posed and debated.  The basic trolleyology problem involves a runaway trolley heading toward five unsuspecting workers on the track who will surely be killed if the trolley continues on its intended path.  But there is a possibility of diverting the trolley onto a side track on which is standing one unsuspecting hapless human.  The decision maker may be the trolley driver or someone on the sidelines who can switch the track.  What is the right thing to do in this case, let the trolley proceed to kill the five, or divert it to kill the one?

A much discussed version involves a very obese man standing by the track whose body can slow/stop the trolley if he is shoved into the trolley’s path.  What is the proper action for a bystander who can push the unsuspecting fat man, and sacrifice him to save the five?  How will/should society judge the person who then sacrificed that one to save many?

Such questions are not just idle thought experiments for the intellectually effete.  Their analogues are posed and answered every day, especially in the annals of healthcare, law enforcement, the military, and in our criminal and civil justice systems.

Is there a way to answer such questions that is better than the ad hoc, arbitrary, and haphazard way we now answer them?  Should we develop a ‘calculus of morality’ or adopt some formalism about computing the relative worth or rankings of human lives, e.g. the mortality and morbidity utility posed in ‘Healthcare Utility Metric (with scriptural underpinnings)’?  Some argue that this should not be done because that puts humans into the role of playing God.  But then, a moment’s thought shows that we constantly play an arbitrary God with people’s lives, and have done so throughout human history.

These questions are increasingly relevant as the world has become more populated, inter-connected, and relatively ignorant.  Of course, the easiest course forward is to forget the whole issue and just soldier on as we have been, using all the tools available from politics, cronyism, and corruption.

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98 responses to “Trolleyology and the Value of Human Lives”

  1. Ben Emery Avatar

    It kind seems like a different angle on Tort Reform debate. I different way of looking at it is those who were slaves or live in absolute destitution, why would they get up and participate in life everyday? There is no adequate price on a human life.

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  2. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    George you must have eaten a lot of turkey and fixins yesterday. This is the age old dilemma of values. In Christianity every human being has a value incalculable in money but on the planet earth we see that is not true. Men have been cannon fodder forever. Mostly young men directed by old men. The state trains them in the art of killing, sends them into the field and they end up getting killed. We have always had wars and mostly to secure property. But as we see now there are religions in the middle east that value life as simply a mechanism to achieve nirvana and 72 virgins. (Since they started using women bombers do they get 72 dudes?)
    Anyway, life is easy to create by men and women but it is the training of the offspring and their resultant affects on society that we must measure their value.
    Is a man who murders others and is then placed in a jail where the cost per year is $54,000 a better way to spend society’s money? Or should we have swift justice with an effective death penalty and then spenf the savings on young people in college?
    With a complex set of values, humans will always be to muddled to have a final set of answers. In Africa, millions die every year from the decision of first world countries to not allow DDT to be used to kill mosquitos carrying malaria. So I would guess the decision must be the ethics regarding the life of those tiny African babies are truly hypocritical by the eco-liberals of the planet. More later.

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  3. rlcrabb Avatar

    Oh yeah, I remember those “Baby On Board” signs. I’d always exercise caution around those vehicles. On the other hand, I was always tempted to run those off the road that had a Garfield doll staring at me from the window.

    Like

  4. Walt Avatar

    Sorry I’m late,, Hope everyone had a safe Thanksgiving.

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  5. Ben Emery Avatar

    I like the real answer Todd and am finding myself in agreement for the most part.

    Like

  6. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    ” In Africa, millions die every year from the decision of first world countries to not allow DDT to be used to kill mosquitos carrying malaria.” It is not that simple Todd. Yes DDT kills mosquitos. That is a short term solution to malaria. However, any cost/benefit analysis should also consider the long term health problems (cancers etc.) and costs due to the use of DDT. It is banned for reasons that go beyond appeasing the political agenda of “eco-liberals.” The real question, once the political BS gets swept aside, is “does the short term solution justify the long term consequences?”

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  7. George Rebane Avatar

    The use of DDT is a good proxy for discussing the (politically correct) value of human life. There is a sober summary of the DDT debate on this NIH site.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2821864/
    The summary concludes – In 1972, following his review of seven months and more than 9,000 pages of federal testimony, William Ruckelshaus, head of the newly formed Environmental Protection Agency, canceled DDT’s registration in the U.S. The ban answered the policy question of whether DDT should be used in the U.S.; it did not, however, answer the scientific question of whether DDT was safe for humans or the environment.28 Ruckelshaus’s written opinion on the rule stated that DDT’s potential carcinogenicity figured prominently in his final decision to ban the chemical.32 But DDT’s potential to harm human health remained just that: a possibility. EDF celebrated the rule as a victory. However, for the next 10 years, Wurster and Jukes continued to write heated letters and articles debating the risks and benefits of DDT. The scientific debate, replete with its social and ethical overlays, was anything but resolved—as it remains unto the present day.
    My own view is that the political advances made by the predominantly leftwing environmentalists to advance their own political agenda have far outweighed any consideration of saving human lives. As can be deduced from the cited summary, there is no clear or conclusive evidence that DDT is harmful to humans, most certainly not nearly to the extent that the annual death rate from mosquito borne malaria is. The presumed DDT death rates are microscopic when compared to malaria. Since DDT is the cheapest and most effective malaria preventative, it is clear that ‘the easiest course forward is to forget the whole issue and just soldier on as we have been, using all the tools available from politics, cronyism, and corruption.’

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  8. Ben Emery Avatar

    Joe,
    A mass investment of mosquito nets could drastically reduce malaria. One person a minute die everyday from malaria. I wanted to be agreeable so didn’t address DDT comment. An optimistic analysis of the DDT policy would be not understanding the side effects of covering human beings with a chemical product that was going to kill another living thing. Nets makes no large corporation large sums of profit and can last much longer than a single season so there is no need for constant purchasing of the anti malaria product. Those like Gates foundation could invest a very small % of their personal wealth and would almost eradicate malaria. But they choose instead a piece meal approach that allows a major health issue to remain while getting huge PR by donating just enough to sound like a big investment, thus making the organization and Melinda Gates like decent human beings. I will quote my new favorite world leader on the effects of corruption in public and private sectors.
    POPE FRANCIS
    MORNING MEDITATION IN THE CHAPEL OF THE
    DOMUS SANCTAE MARTHAE
    Dirty bread of corruption
    Friday, 8 November 2013
    Closing
    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/cotidie/2013/en/papa-francesco-cotidie_20131108_dirty-bread_en.html
    The Holy Father concluded by inviting all of those present “to ask the Lord to change the hearts of those who are devoted to the goddess of bribery” in order that “they might understand that dignity comes from noble work, from honest work, from daily work, and not from the easy road which in the end strips you of everything”. For when they face death, he said, “these poor people who lose their dignity through the practice of bribery do not take with them the money they earned; they only take their lack of dignity. Let us pray for them.

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  9. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    The person you need to talk to JoeK is a local fellow named Patrick Hurley. He is a chemical engineer I think. He is an expert on DDT. Margaret Carlson’s book “Silent Spring” was the biggest piece of eco crapola to hit the planet since the asteroids. But it worked and convinced the mincemeat brained EPA and other eco liberals that we cannot have the chemical. So, millions have died, mostly little munchcins and mostly black. So I get you on this. You do not care for those little black children perishing from the second most preventable killer on the planet. If you disagree, please supply the peer reviewed science proving you correct.

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  10. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    All of this nonsense about DDT might make some sense, if any of what Todd and others are sayings were true.
    But of course, it IS NOT.
    DDT is not banned, it is simply in much more limited use; DDT use is allowed under the Stockholm Convention on Persistent Organic Pollutants approved by more than 150 countries including the very countries Todd is alluding to who have persistent malaria problems; according to the WHO the reason DDT is less effective today is that Mosquitos have built resistance to the chemical, and Malathion is much more effective. DDT is still in use in the rare cases where it is proven to be effective.
    I would post peer reviewed science, but really do you think Todd would really accept any peer reviewed science? or know how to read it?
    Oh, and it was Rachel Carson the American marine biologist who wrote Silent Spring, not Margaret Carlson, the newspaper columnist and editor.

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  11. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Another stupid right wing myth busted!

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  12. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Oh yeah, without the use of DDT there were a grand total of 1,925 malaria cases in the United States, almost all of which were contracted overseas, and a total of 5 deaths.
    http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2013/p1031-malaria-cases.html

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  13. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: stevenfrisch | 29 November 2013 at 08:38 PM
    Those figures were for 2010.

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  14. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Frisch, we are talking about Africa. Get with the agenda you fool.

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  15. George Rebane Avatar

    Administrivia – I draw your kind attention to the 29nov13 update of ‘Crickets vindicate …’
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2013/11/crickets-vindicate-erroneous-charges.html

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  16. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Listen you frigging moron, I know we are talking abut Africa. George’s article dealt with the United States so I gave some US figures.
    DDT is not banned in Africa, you are full of shinola; it is covered under the Stockholm Convention and is used in about 10 countries in Africa right now. All of the data I posted above is accurate.
    I ask the good readers to go look it up and decide for themselves who is full of crap.
    You just constantly repeat the bullshit you hear with no thought.

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  17. Gerry Fedor Avatar
    Gerry Fedor

    I love it when Todd call us all fools, this is the guy who claims to be a financial wiz (he’s certainly a wiz alright) yet, he lets his investment property go into foreclosure which is then had to use TARP money to cover his mistake.
    Then he tells us all how we should run the financial system, when he’s part of the problem…..
    NOTICE OF TRUSTEE’S SALE Trustee Sale No. : 20100015009237 Title Order No.: 100551675 FHA/VA/PMI No.: YOU ARE IN DEFAULT UNDER A DEED OF TRUST, DATED 03/07/2008. UNLESS YOU TAKE ACTION TO PROTECT YOUR PROPERTY, IT MAY BE SOLD AT A PUBLIC SALE. IF YOU NEED AN EXPLANATION OF THE NATURE OF THE PROCEEDING AGAINST YOU, YOU SHOULD CONTACT A LAWYER. NDEX WEST, LLC, as duly appointed Trustee under and pursuant to Deed of Trust Recorded on 03/14/2008 as Instrument No. 2008-0006162-00 of official records in the office of the County Recorder of NEVADA County, State of CALIFORNIA. EXECUTED BY: TODD JUVINALL, WILL SELL AT PUBLIC AUCTION TO HIGHEST BIDDER FOR CASH, CASHIER’S CHECK/CASH EQUIVALENT or other form of payment authorized by 2924h(b), (payable at time of sale in lawful money of the United States). DATE OF SALE: 02/03/2011 TIME OF SALE: 12:30 PM PLACE OF SALE: AT THE MAIN ENTRANCE TO THE COURTHOUSE, 201 CHURCH STREET, NEVADA CITY, CA. STREET ADDRESS and other common designation, if any, of the real property described above is purported to be: 15994 LAZULI LN, GRASS VALLEY, CALIFORNIA 95949 APN#: 23-250-41 The undersigned Trustee disclaims any liability for any incorrectness of the street address and other common designation, if any , shown herein. Said sale will be made, but without covenant or warranty, expressed or implied, regarding title, possession, or encumbrances, to pay the remaining principal sum of the note(s) secured by said Deed of Trust, with interest thereon, as provided in said note(s), advances, under the terms of said Deed of Trust, fees, charges and expenses of the Trustee and of the trusts created by said Deed of Trust. The total amount of the unpaid balance of the obligation secured by the property to be sold and reasonable estimated costs, expenses and advances at the time of the initial publication of the Notice of Sale is $431,294.16. The beneficiary under said Deed of Trust heretofore executed and delivered to the undersigned a written Declaration of Default and Demand for Sale, and a written Notice of Default and Election to Sell. The undersigned caused said Notice of Default and Election to Sell to be recorded in the county where the real property is located. FOR TRUSTEE SALE INFORMATION PLEASE CALL: AGENCY SALES & POSTING 3210 EL CAMINO REAL, SUITE 200 IRVINE, CA 92602 714-730-2727 http://www.lpsasap.com NDEx West, L.L.C. MAY BE ACTING AS A DEBT COLLECTOR ATTEMPTING TO COLLECT A DEBT. ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE. NDEx West, L.L.C. as Trustee Dated: 01/07/2011 NDEx West, L.L.C. 15000 Surveyor Boulevard, Suite 500 Addison, Texas 75001-9013 Telephone: (866) 795-1852 Telecopier: (972) 661-7800 ASAP# 3876828
    So our Wise and Just friend, exactly home much of my money did you cost us all?

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  18. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    As we can read theFrisch above, he resorts to namecalling as usual. But his points are bogus as we can all read for ourselves the following links and articles on DDT. So who is the moron now? Methinks a Truckee fellow.
    HERE is a current article on DDT that mirrors my comments and debunks the moron Steve Frisch. He is the master of cut and paste and is totally wrong on this issue. Please note the current estimated death totals of black African children. My guess is this means the liberal attempts at eugenics through the banned use of saving chemicals is supported by theFrisch.
    http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech/environment/item/15583-ddt-breeds-death
    My favorite point from the above article as follows:
    “The Stockholm Convention, which went into force in 2004, legally binds most UN-participant nations to “take actions to reduce or eliminate the production, use and/or release” of DDT. Meanwhile thousands die needlessly every day, and though Americans do not witness firsthand this overseas genocide, the resurgence of mosquito-borne West Nile Virus in the United States could soon demand a DDT renaissance.”
    Here is a simple search on Google and an article from 2004
    http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/ciencia/ciencia_ddt01.htm
    Here is a CDC article stating that 10 African nations asked for an exemption from its banning use. (note that they do not produce DDT) This is from 2003.
    http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/9/8/03-0082_article.htm
    I found any other articles and studies to back up my contention. TheFrisch does have a couple of points that are true but he expands those points with further disinformation. That is how liberals lie and how they try to win debates. While little black children are dying every day from these diseases, the Frisch and his ilk sleep well.

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  19. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Hey Todd, did you read the CDC article form 9/8/03? It supports my point.
    The second to the last article is from Lyndon LaRouche…a great source for you Todd, so much for ‘peer reviewed’ science.
    Even the article from the New Statesman supports my point, notice the “reduce or eliminate”; the Stockholm Convention does not ban DDT.
    And nothing you have posted counters the facts sourced by me above that DDT has lost effectiveness due to resistance built up by Mosquitos….which is why people need to use Malathion…which is more expensive.
    What you have posted not only makes no sense it is intentional propaganda bullshit parroted by a dimwitted yokel. I expect as much from you, you can’t help yourself, but I expect other readers here to go to the sources and see for themselves that you are full of crap.

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  20. Ben Emery Avatar

    http://www.fightingmalaria.org/
    This is a link that lays out malaria in Africa.
    The real question is how is it the continent and nations most rich in natural resource is so poor and unable to afford good malaria reduction policies on their own?

    Like

  21. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Frisch we are simply in a battle for truth and you are losing.

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  22. George Rebane Avatar

    Well, I guess the DDT detour served as something more concrete to focus on than considering the divers ways we value human life. Apropos to DDT et al and African human life, no one really cares – perhaps Bill Gates with a miniscule fraction of his foundation’s gonza assets. But not the rest of us.
    Here in the west we babble about ‘social justice’ without having a clue about its definition or how to measure it. Social justice is what the loudest political voice says it is, and tomorrow it may be convenient to say it’s something else. That socially just policies implicitly value human life in real terms (e.g. QoL, dollar cost per remaining year, etc) is undeniable, but the valuations are arbitrary, inconsistent, capricious, and gratuitous in terms of the lives affected, and make sense only when examined in the light of near term benefits to the ruling elites.

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  23. Walt Avatar

    How well did DDT work? Dig into the history of the Panama canal.
    How many dead because of insect deaths alone? If it wasn’t for DDT,
    I don’t believe the canal would have been finished.
    Now just to add a poke with a pointy stick,, liberalism may be another
    unforeseen side effect of DDT.. ( Kinda like the soft egg shell of the Calif. Condor DDT is blamed for as well)
    parents sent their kids into the streets to play as the DDT fumigators
    drove down the Avenue.” Get a good dusting kids!”
    Yes,,, from ” soft shelled eggs” to soft shelled heads… Make it mandatory
    for a person that leans Left needs a bike helmet. We don’t want that “soft shell” to get anymore damaged than it already is. Obamacare isn’t working yet.

    Like

  24. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    What is truly fascinating about people like TheFrisch is there hypocrisy regarding human life. Well, life they don’t care about. Rather than discuss the “on the ground” facts of African children, whether dead by insects or rapacious males seeking to avoid AIDS, the Frisch chastises about the misspelling or named wrong authors. No affection for the many tykes dying by the millions. But, if we discuss AB32 or “global warming” now that perks the interest of the left. Forget the little ones. But when a person has no heirs maybe that is what happens to the brain.

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  25. fish Avatar
    fish

    But, if we discuss AB32 or “global warming” now that perks the interest of the left.
    C’mon Todd millions dying in Africa….where’s the money in that? “Global Warming”, “Climate Change” or whatever the marketing department is calling it this week on the other hand……well that has the potential to be a real revenue generator for the state! Look there and find Mr. Frischs motivation.

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  26. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: Walt | 30 November 2013 at 10:29 AM
    “If it wasn’t for DDT, I don’t believe the canal would have been finished.”
    Panama Canal finished and opened: AUGUST 1914
    DDT insecticide uses discovered: 1939
    by Swiss chemist Paul Hermann Muller (for which he won the Nobel prize in 1948)
    Too much WOLDNET DAILY, TOWN HALL and THE BLAZE makes you stud boys.

    Like

  27. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    I was going to give Walt the correct info but I knew theFrisch couldn’t wait.
    The Panama Canal mosquito problem was solved by pouring oil over exposed water in containers and spraying over larger areas in order to smother the eggs.

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  28. fish Avatar
    fish

    Too much WOLDNET DAILY, TOWN HALL and THE BLAZE makes you stud boys.
    I guess you’re right Todd…Steve does have a thing” for you! Stud boys….nice!

    Like

  29. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Boy I hate my automatic spell checker especially when it makes STUPID look like STUD.
    By the way, one of the number one causes of the spread of malaria? You guessed it: climate change.
    http://www.who.int/globalchange/climate/summary/en/index5.html
    Oh and Todd, you mistaking Rachel Carson for Margaret Carlson was my way of showing the readers here that you don;t fact check shit. Just like Walt, who apparently thinks DDT helped build the Panama Canal!

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  30. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    fish, you are so right. The eco groups in our country don’t seem to raise money for the children in the world but I do see them raising money for their tried and true “big cats are endangered” strategies. I have noticed in my lifetime of watching the grant takers and rent seekers like theFrisch that when funds for their office expenses are low they put the “big cats” out there. Too predictable now. My hopes are the public donors will cut them off.

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  31. fish Avatar
    fish

    Oh and Todd, you mistaking Rachel Carson for Margaret Carlson was my way of showing the readers here that you don;t fact check shit.
    Substituting an often heard name for a somewhat more “remote” name isn’t evidence of anything Steve.

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  32. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    But I note Fish: I have presented facts and references. Todd has presented opinions unsubstantiated and provably and proven false. What is the responsibility of posters here to post the truth? or fact check their data? or hold those who post accountable for accuracy? I guess there is no accountability.

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  33. Walt Avatar

    Yup,, I stand corrected. ( as far as Panama is concerned) But not one word
    on the “OIL” that was used? Our Greeny missed a chance to fly off the handle. ( Uhhh,, dude…. You forgot to sight your source of the cut and paste job… Wiki??)

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  34. fish Avatar
    fish

    But I note Fish: I have presented facts and references. Todd has presented opinions unsubstantiated and provably and proven false. What is the responsibility of posters here to post the truth? or fact check their data? or hold those who post accountable for accuracy? I guess there is no accountability.
    My counter to your assertion was only that simple confusion of two names isn’t evidence of anything. You can go full Ben Emery and post links until the sun dims and I probably won’t check because so much of the science is politicized these days and I find that you and your side is just as guilty of arguing in bad faith as you claim your opponents to be.
    Listen you frigging moron..I ask the good readers to go look it up and decide for themselves who is full of crap…..You just constantly repeat the bullshit you hear with no thought.
    I do love it when the high minded lefty mask slips! I’m glad you’re back Steve..you belong here.

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  35. fish Avatar
    fish

    I love it when Todd call us all fools, this is the guy who claims to be a financial wiz (he’s certainly a wiz alright) yet, he lets his investment property go into foreclosure which is then had to use TARP money to cover his mistake.
    Then he tells us all how we should run the financial system, when he’s part of the problem…..
    NOTICE OF TRUSTEE’S SALE Trustee Sale No. : 20100015009237 Title Order No.: 100551675 FHA/VA/PMI No.: YOU ARE IN DEFAULT UNDER A DEED OF TRUST, DATED 03/07/2008. UNLESS YOU TAKE ACTION TO PROTECT YOUR PROPERTY, IT MAY BE SOLD AT A PUBLIC SALE. IF YOU NEED AN EXPLANATION OF THE NATURE OF THE PROCEEDING AGAINST YOU, YOU SHOULD CONTACT A LAWYER. NDEX WEST, LLC, as duly appointed Trustee under and pursuant to Deed of Trust Recorded on 03/14/2008 as Instrument No. 2008-0006162-00 of official records in the office of the County Recorder of NEVADA County, State of CALIFORNIA. EXECUTED BY: TODD JUVINALL, WILL SELL AT PUBLIC AUCTION TO HIGHEST BIDDER FOR CASH, CASHIER’S CHECK/CASH EQUIVALENT or other form of payment authorized by 2924h(b), (payable at time of sale in lawful money of the United States). DATE OF SALE: 02/03/2011 TIME OF SALE: 12:30 PM PLACE OF SALE: AT THE MAIN ENTRANCE TO THE COURTHOUSE, 201 CHURCH STREET, NEVADA CITY, CA. STREET ADDRESS and other common designation, if any, of the real property described above is purported to be: 15994 LAZULI LN, GRASS VALLEY, CALIFORNIA 95949 APN#: 23-250-41 The undersigned Trustee disclaims any liability for any incorrectness of the street address and other common designation, if any , shown herein. Said sale will be made, but without covenant or warranty, expressed or implied, regarding title, possession, or encumbrances, to pay the remaining principal sum of the note(s) secured by said Deed of Trust, with interest thereon, as provided in said note(s), advances, under the terms of said Deed of Trust, fees, charges and expenses of the Trustee and of the trusts created by said Deed of Trust. The total amount of the unpaid balance of the obligation secured by the property to be sold and reasonable estimated costs, expenses and advances at the time of the initial publication of the Notice of Sale is $431,294.16. The beneficiary under said Deed of Trust heretofore executed and delivered to the undersigned a written Declaration of Default and Demand for Sale, and a written Notice of Default and Election to Sell. The undersigned caused said Notice of Default and Election to Sell to be recorded in the county where the real property is located. FOR TRUSTEE SALE INFORMATION PLEASE CALL: AGENCY SALES & POSTING 3210 EL CAMINO REAL, SUITE 200 IRVINE, CA 92602 714-730-2727 http://www.lpsasap.com NDEx West, L.L.C. MAY BE ACTING AS A DEBT COLLECTOR ATTEMPTING TO COLLECT A DEBT. ANY INFORMATION OBTAINED WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE. NDEx West, L.L.C. as Trustee Dated: 01/07/2011 NDEx West, L.L.C. 15000 Surveyor Boulevard, Suite 500 Addison, Texas 75001-9013 Telephone: (866) 795-1852 Telecopier: (972) 661-7800 ASAP# 3876828
    So our Wise and Just friend, exactly home much of my money did you cost us all?

    Welcome back Michael……I like your sockpuppet “Gerry”!

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  36. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Yeah, you have a problem with looking stuff up Walt? The source of my knowledge of the Panama Canal was reading two histories. But you know what? A combination of looking things up on the web, coupled with checking the original sources, and skepticism about the veracity of sources leading to seeking more than one or two, could really go a long ways toward getting your stuff straight. Nothing wrong with reading.

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  37. George Rebane Avatar

    re stevenfrisch 1124am and 1159am – apparently Mr Frisch doesn’t even read his own propaganda citations. There is no claim in those that climate change is already “one of the number one causes of the spread of malaria”. Far from it, the bullshit WHO articles presume that in a future world of runaway temperature increases in insect borne diseases like malaria will occur. There we read “Climate change will also affect infectious disease occurrence (1).” Going to (1) we read further that detecting increases in current incidences of diseases like malaria is a highly unreliable (noisy) undertaking – outputs from more “sophisticated models” of processes we don’t know how to model. And in sum “…there is now recognition that global climate change poses risks to human population health. … This topic is emerging as a major theme in population health research, social policy development, and advocacy. Indeed, consideration of global climatic-environmental hazards to human health will become a central role in the sustainability transition debate.” (emphases mine)
    The rest of these reports are nothing but wordsmithing the politically correct interpretations of the latest dubious and debated IPCC outporings. Using these to connect the claim of already occurring changes in the incidence of diseases to (mis)predicted climate parameters is beyond specious.

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  38. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    fsh, I think you have exposed the real Fedor! They simply make things up but hey, liberals do that. Too funny.

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  39. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    George I knew you would set the record straight since you are the real scientist and theFrisch is a restaurant cook (as we recall The Passages in Truckee). The Frisch rejects our links but expects us to agree with his. Hubris.
    fish, these guys on the left try and make a business foreclosure from five years ago a way to claim I cannot speak on finance. Don’t they know that debt is finance? Sort of like PaulE saying I cannot speak on anything military since I did not serve. The left truly does not believe in free speech even though they yap about it all the time.
    Regarding the foreclosure. I lost my money, no taxpayers were involved. But this is the attempt by the libs to try and claim something they think tarnishes me and my ability to discuss money. I would suggest a person who attends Burning Man and another who travels the Sierra counties promoting “global warming” are more dangerous than a retired contractor. Isn’t it also interesting that “Gene Fedor” does not cite theFrisch’s failure at restauranteur and hundreds of thousands of liens filed by the IRS, Franchise Tax Board and the County Treasurer. Why does Fedor not have an opinion on that? Oh, a fellow liar and liberal. Hilarious.

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  40. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Yeah, well um, bullshit, George: “There is much evidence of associations between climatic conditions and infectious diseases. Malaria is of great public health concern, and seems likely to be the vector-borne disease most sensitive to long-term climate change.” –WHO
    See here is how it works, if you reject the reports from the WHO as inaccurate it is up to YOU to prove they are not. I am using a credible source…your contention that these are “politically correct interpretations” is what requires proof.
    I mean really George, are you an expert of infectious decease? No, but the WHO is.

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  41. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Yeah Fish, not back for long; just long enough to expose the stupid right wing talking point that restricting use of DDT is proof that ‘liberals’ do not care about ‘black babies’.
    It is a lie, pure and simple, has no basis in fact, the people arguing it don’t have any real science on their side, and it is just more race baiting bullshit designed to give them a talking point.
    You people should be ashamed of how you twist science. It is just pure ignorance.

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  42. fish Avatar
    fish

    You people should be ashamed of how you twist science. It is just pure ignorance.
    Cool….I get to use the “Pot meet Kettle” line twice in one week!
    Hurry along now Steve…. there’s a world in need of savin!

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  43. George Rebane Avatar

    stevenfrisch 1256pm – Your implied claim that one needs to be a “an expert on infectious diseases” to comprehend and/or be an expert on the involved diffusion models, estimation algorithms, and data analysis that ground the claims of WHO is an understandable error almost always committed by members of the lay public.
    The record is replete with the literally hundreds (thousands?) of recantations and post hoc ‘clarifications’ by the scientists who participated in the bits and pieces of the research that were ultimately assembled under the political auspices of the UN’s IPCC (on anthropogenic global warming) and the UN’s WHO (human morbidity and mortality issues). All of these specialists claimed only to construct and offer results from their narrow niches to be later assembled into the desired narrative by the star-powered, and since much discredited, head honchos like Hansen and Mann (under the beaming gaze of Gore and other unbiased global governance aficionados).
    For example, epidemiology (along with most other disciplines in the modern life sciences, economics, finance, and sociology) draws ALL of its productive tools from what today is known as the systems sciences. To a systems scientist/engineer who assembles such large scale processing models that output information suitable for public policy decisions, the work of specialists like infectious disease experts at best yield localized (and almost always dubious and subsequently corrected) transfer functions of sub-processes that must be integrated into a whole that can compute usable results.
    The output products of such specialists are useless to almost everyone not versed in such tools and the viewpoint required to productively apply them. Most certainly they are worse than useless to politicians and bureaucrats who inevitably attempt to make policies for pachyderm management from having at best hugged a specimen’s hind leg.
    In spite of all this Steve, your voice and considered arguments are always a welcome perspective on RR.

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  44. fish Avatar
    fish

    Politics would never intrude on the sacred grounds of science……..
    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/muzzling-federal-scientists-widespread-survey-suggests-142739172.html

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  45. fish Avatar
    fish

    fish, these guys on the left try and make a business foreclosure from five years ago a way to claim I cannot speak on finance. Don’t they know that debt is finance? Sort of like PaulE saying I cannot speak on anything military since I did not serve. The left truly does not believe in free speech even though they yap about it all the time.
    Last time I checked Todd if you couldn’t pay the mortgage they foreclose on the property and your credit rating takes a hit. Standard contract language.
    Michael….err…”Gerry” acts as though he’s found photos of you having sex with a goat!

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  46. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Posted by: George Rebane | 30 November 2013 at 02:05 PM
    George, I never said one had to be an expert in infectious disease to refute the science, what I am saying is that if you are going to refute the science it is YOUR responsibility to refute the science, to provide the facts, or expose the specifics on the data that is incorrect, and the correction to the process that is necessary, not merely state that in the past some science at some place at some time on some issue has been proved incorrect and successfully refuted. One is evidence, and to be applauded if correct, the other is coincidence. The very idea that you as a self professed scientist would support such nonsense speculation.

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  47. George Rebane Avatar

    stevenfrisch 241pm – OK, you may interpret your own 1256pm as you will. But the refutation that I gave to your citation(s) were a matter of simply understanding the English used to make WHO’s claims which did not coincide with what you asserted in your 1124am. It was not at all a matter of proving or disproving science.
    I apologize that my 205pm expansion on the generalized process of assembling large scale models from specialized sub-process models did not communicate well. (But this exchange does illuminate yet another facet of why debating politically splattered science is seldom fruitful, debating ‘unscented’ science is hard enough.)

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  48. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Mad scientist George! You want to argue against the science do it with science, otherwise it is the pejorative form of ideology. In other words, bullshit.

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  49. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Ah yes, SteveF the restauranteur telling the actual scientist he is full of it. Priceless!

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  50. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    fish, your pal MichaelA is trashing you on my blog. He states he is chicken to come to RR. Too funny!

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