Rebane's Ruminations
October 2013
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George Rebane

Forget the latest Obamacare website fiasco for a bit.  A very surprising piece of news is making the headlines this morning about Obama’s reported ignorance that NSA was tapping the phones of certain world leaders.  (more here)  My surprise is not of the kind reported, and perhaps I’m the only one who is surprised by this “official’s” claim of yet another area of his administration’s activities about which this community organizer is also unaware.  But what are we to make of the claim?

1.    Obama is lying again, and he was fully aware, as he should have been, of NSA’s phone surveillance of peer world leaders and the relevant contents which were reported to him regularly.
2.    Obama’s minions did tap friendly world leaders’ phones on their own (lower level) recognizance and purposely failed to report the policy and contents of such taps to their boss.  If so, then how much more of such high level unawareness is going on in this administration?

The point here is that Obama’s ignorance of his regime’s monitoring of peer world leaders was disclosed as an official statement by a lower level lackey.  Whether true or not, this does not project a good picture of our government being run by a cadre of competent leaders.  (Lest some local liberals think that this view is again limited, check out Bob Woodward's asessment that this administration is "a rat's nest of concealment and lies.")

Now we are in danger of Obama doing the next sophomoric thing by issuing some ‘guarantee’ that we’ll never do it again.  Or worse, that we’ll only do it again under the ‘guarantee’ that Obama is definitely not told about it.  Or …?

For the bit of tricky logic involved here, I want to emphasize that I’m not advocating that we base our foreign policy on information made incomplete by purposely blinding ourselves to things we can see and  should view.  I question 1) how such surveillance policy is conducted within this administration (internal ignorance, incompetence, rogue agencies, …?), and 2) how we respond to charges of such surveillance from foreign leaders (further damage to our deteriorating image of being a trustworthy, strong, and competent ally).

[30oct13 update]  H/T to RR reader.

ObamaAware
[3nov13 update]  I'm reminded of certain prescient readers who last spring assured us that all of the Obama scandals would be forgotten beyond recall by this time, most of all what happened in Benghazi on 11 September 2012.  Reality is a bit different.  Obama's job performance is so poor that he even invites the lamestream to start ressurecting the history of his administration's disasters.  Last Sunday '60 Minutes' revived Benghazi with a re-examination of the events of that day and the treasonous response from Washington and the Snowden revelations.  While today Sen Lindsay Graham (R-SC) has vowed to hold all remaining Obama appointments from Senate approval until Obama permits the Senate to hear from the Benghazi survivors before concluding its investigation.  (Can you imagine the thinking that is going on in that puzzle palace to continue denying Congress that testimony?)  Hillary should be scheduled for some industrial grade teflon treatments before all this is over.  I think some reporters out there are beginning to smell one or more Pulitzers in the growing pile of garbage that continues to be buried in the Rose Garden. 

Posted in , ,

193 responses to “‘Obama was unaware…’ again? (updated 3nov13)”

  1. Walt Avatar

    To my Lib counterparts.. Is this your idea of money well spent?
    “The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), which runs the federal government’s major health-care programs, and which was responsible for developing the Obamacare health-insurance exchange website, spent more than $1 trillion in just the first eleven months of fiscal 2013, according to the Treasury. From October 2012 through August 2013, according to the Treasury, this one federal agency spent $1,036,561,000,000. ”
    And just think. a handful of geeks can put together a porn site with over a million files, and categorized for your personal tastes, in less than two weeks, then run just about “glitch” free.. And on a shoe string budget no less.

    Like

  2. Walt Avatar

    Just to rub salt on that open wound, looky what the EPA under LIBS has allowed to happen. I guess being a BIG “O” and Co. “donation” slush funder
    has it’s perks.
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/30/bankrupt-solar-panel-firm-took-stimulus-money-left-toxic-mess-says-report/
    Now if this joint was a non “O” backer, the doors would have never even opened. ( all those toxic materials) Maybe if IMM had been LIBS getting piles of cash from D.C.,, things would have been a lot different.
    GV may have fallen into the mine tunnels entirely?

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  3. Paul Emery Avatar

    Walt Re: 3:21
    Link please. Quotes without atributes mean nothing.
    thanks

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  4. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Sebelius was asked why she did not sign up for ObamaCare in a Congressional hearing today. She said I already have my Federal care, why would I change?

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  5. Walt Avatar

    Paul. If I could find it, I’m sure you can.

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  6. Paul Emery Avatar

    Where did you get it from? Pretty simple question. Can you give me a couple google suggestions that you used or did you make it up.

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  7. Walt Avatar

    Todd. That is one house I would fear going to dinner at.
    The guests would get orphanage grade gruel, on three times used “organic” paper plates with biodegradable plastic utensils.( break just stirring coffee) while the ones in the kitchen are dinning on Black Angus prime rib, with solid gold silverware. All the while cracking jokes on how they can’t be fired or held accountable in any way.
    “O” and Co. flat out refuse to chow down on their own cooking.
    So… How’s that Green eggs and Ham?? Still like it? Nephew of Uncle Sam?

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  8. Walt Avatar

    Paul. I’m far from being computer literate.
    But using just a few sentences in the search box,
    the story can be found with vary little problem.
    Since you hate homework,,,
    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/cms-spent-more-1t-less-1-yr-more-entire-gov-t-spent-when-medicaid

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  9. Paul Emery Avatar

    Specifically walt are you saying a trillion dollars was spent on developing the Obamacare website, yes or no.

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  10. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 816am – It looks like you didn’t understand the ‘Rebane Doctrine’ (my 710am) in which I point out the exceptional behavior of explicitly stating our interests, which no nation has yet done in the ongoing execution of its foreign policy. Added to our other exceptional attributes, such openness would be an earth-shattering change.

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  11. Walt Avatar

    The story speaks for itself Paul. I may be a knuckle dragging construction worker, but I can still understand the written word.
    those are tax dollars we are talking about.

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  12. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    I remember a couple of movies Hollywood did years ago where they kept the Prex out of the loop so he had plausible deniability. So when the inception was asked about something he could truthfully say he knew nothing. Might have been Clea and Present Danger? Anyway, as it has become a way of life with Obama, we are truly a leaderless country.

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  13. Walt Avatar

    The Tea Party has been vindicated.

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  14. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Walt, I heard last night that only 2/3 of a billion smackers was spent of just developing the web site. 650 million or so, just 200 million clams less than the entire Stimulus that was supposed to flood our country with cash and drop unemployment to 6% and save us from econimic uncertainty and save your job. Just 200 million shy of the Stimulus Package for a web site, ROTFLMAO! Add another 250 million to fix the site and we are approaching a billion clam shells. Plus all those part time low wage unisured workers manning the Obamacare phones who tell people to try again on healthcare.com in the wee hours of the morning. Shoot, they could have a recording on the 800# that tells them the same thing. Duh.
    The way we are going under President B. Hussien Obama we will look just like Poland in 1959 or Rome after it burned or Athens after its fall. Or, Athens today, if you prefer. History is full of examples of doing the exact failed policies of our current Administration is doing and the outcome ain’t pretty. Never was, never will. A modern day Greek tragedy to use a pun.
    Mr. Walt, at least we told them so and are on record opposing Barrycare. So is the Tea Party. So is Ted Cruz who took tremedous amount of heat. So are the House Republicans whom the US Constituition gave the exclusive authority to have all revenue bills orginate there (the House). The House Republicians went to the mat at great political peril to stand up against Excutive Branch tyranny.
    It is not becoming to say “I told you so, ass wipes”, so I shall refrain and say look at the record. Politics can turn on a dime. Remeber when Hillary was the heir apparent to the throne in Nov, 2007? Article after article declaring her the first Female Prez of the USA and no one could beat her,not anybody from her own party or the opposition party. Hmmm. That was 3 months BEFORE Barry tossed his hat into the ring on a chilly Feburary morn in front of a sparce crowd in Chicago
    The American voters will remember who caused them to lose health insurance, who sent heavily armed police in armored vehicles to subudue elderly crippled WW2 vets (who have been dyinbg off at a rate of 1,000/week since the 50th Anniveristy of Pearl Harbor), and they will remember who passed out Obamaphones while the budget was busted and the deficit soared. Read them and weep, libholes.
    Barry just can’t get around the House for his grand plans. He was so upbeat just 2 weeks ago after smashing the Republicans. Oh how sweet his victory was. He immediately turned his attention to Immigration reform and and More Green stuff while nixing fracking, the Pipleline form Canada, and dancing on the Tea Party’s dead carcusses. Opps. I have said it more than once poll watchers: It is not wise to take off one’s armor before the battle begins.
    Barry has had a tough last few days. NSA, the glitch girl website, Benghazi. Don’t think Barry is doing the Moon Walk of the Tea Party this week. Seems to have lost that bounce in his step. Transparency is the enemy of liars.

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  15. Paul Emery Avatar

    Where did you hear that Bill ( 2/3 of a billion smackers was spent of just developing the web site) . I challenge the truthfulness of that statement. It does not further your position to spread information that isn’t true.

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  16. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    Once again refresh me on your opinion whether Bush explicitly expressed to the American people the reasons for invading Iraq.

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  17. fish Avatar
    fish

    Where did you hear that Bill ( 2/3 of a billion smackers was spent of just developing the web site) . I challenge the truthfulness of that statement. It does not further your position to spread information that isn’t true.
    The number the KosKids seem comfortable admitting to right now is $400 million dollars…all the bills aren’t in yet so it could very well be much more!

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  18. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    No Paul. I said 650 million to do the web site. What I was grossly in error on was a MUCH more grievous bonehead error than that concerning the Stimulus. Stimulus was 850 billion, not 850 million. That was bad, wrong, and inexcusable. Me bad, bad, bad, Much more serious than a mere politician’s lapse of judgement. Now, about the glitch girl website. Opps, they took glitch girl’s face down. Ok, I will call it the “site”. The site:
    Conservative estimates are only 1/2 billion if you throw out government employee salaries. I am off 150 million. Paul, you be correct! The final figures are not in and are wrapped in procurement contracts which always come in under budget, even with clauses that say “not to exceed…”…yeah, right. OK, have at it.
    http://www.digitaltrends.com/opinion/obamacare-healthcare-gov-website-cost/
    From just contacts and nothing else: 515 million. Hmm, now I am only off by 135 million
    http://usaspending.gov/explore?tab=By+Prime+Awardee&fiscal_year=all&idvpiid=HHSM500200700015I&typeofview=detailsummary
    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/10/how-much-did-obamacares-broken-website-cost.html
    Ironically, the many failures could end up benefiting CGI, said Johnson. “What really terrifies me is that the contractor that built this is going to say, ‘Yep, that’s going to cost a lot more money to fix.’” In other words, we may go to war with Canada yet.
    Well, the web site ain’t done yet and we can’t add all the OT by government employees working on this (with bennies, electricity,phones, etc.) I will leave them off the record because they probably are surfing Pregnant Women Face Sitting porn sites away.
    Mr. Emery, the contract to CSI is just one of many contracts to built this thing and CSI is just one of 4 contractors as evidenced by the 2nd link posted about. The site is not yet completed as more contractors are being brought in to make it work….contractors from the private sector, and of course, more government employees on payroll assigned to this. Call centers are a different matter, as well as the cost to our own county to farm training out to Humboldt County…that is a different matter.
    So, bottom line Paul; You are right, I am wrong. You win the prize. Now, lets cross our fingers and hope against hope it does not go above 900 million clams. That could buy a lot of health insurance for our po folk.

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  19. Paul Emery Avatar

    Thanks Bill for the clarification. I don’t respond to sarcasm.

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  20. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    However, we do know, according to CMS’s 2014 budget request (pdf), that agency spent more than $150 million in 2012 and 2013 in relation to the Affordable Care Act – a lowball figure considering that, in its 2013 budget request (pdf), the agency asked for more than $1 billion in additional funds “needed to support operation infrastructure” and open-enrollment preparations of the FFEs.
    At this point I can only speculate on the total cost to build out Healthcare.gov and the overall technology portion of the FFEs. Based on the available data, however, a conservative estimate puts the cost so far at over $500 million. Considering the GAO estimates it will cost approximately $2 billion to build-out and operate the FFEs in 2014, this is, if anything, likely far too low.

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  21. Paul Emery Avatar

    On a different topic:
    Teddy boy got the message. So much for the TP darling. Polirico writes…
    “Extending an olive branch to GOP senators, Texas Sen. Ted Cruz is privately making it clear he won’t engage in the Senate Conservatives Fund’s hardball tactics to defeat his colleagues in their primary races.
    “At a closed-door lunch meeting of Senate Republicans Wednesday, the freshman conservative told his colleagues that he would not intervene in their 2014 primary fights or fundraise for the controversial outside group. Cruz added that the SCF’s decision to try to defeat sitting GOP senators in their primaries was its alone, according to several people familiar with the session.”
    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2013/10/ted-cruz-republican-senators-99125.html#ixzz2jHJrGg00

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  22. fish Avatar
    fish

    Teddy boy got the message. So much for the TP darling. Polirico writes…
    I can’t tell if you are sad or gloating…..interesting for a man who claims to be agnostic about left vs. right politically.

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  23. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Same here fish. Usually PaulE is trashing the Tea Party and bemoaning partisanship. Usually just trashing Republicans. (A giveaway to his true self) Politico is not a good source of info except as they are a cheerleader for the left. (I read DailyKos to see what George Soros is telling his brown-shirts to say and do)
    Now, why would Ted Cruz, if he actually feels this way, decide not to campaign against fellow Senators in primaries? Hmmm. Well, maybe he believes he should not interfere in other state’s politics. Isn’t that what people like PaulE rail against? TedC could raise a lot of Koch money for those candidates right? So PAulE should be having a series of wet-dreams that TedC is on the sidelines.
    One thing I have learned about the left is they are not to be trusted and their words and desires are never held close to the vest. Flipfloppers galore.

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  24. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 815pm – Upon review, I don’t think I can do better than Victor Davis Hanson in answering why we invaded Iraq.
    http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/343870/why-did-we-invade-iraq-victor-davis-hanson

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  25. fish Avatar
    fish

    Upon review, I don’t think I can do better that Victor Davis Hanson in answering why we invaded Iraq.
    With due respect George nothing in the VDH article convinces me that there was justification to invade Iraq.
    I fall into the General Odom camp.
    Retired General: Iraq Invasion Was ‘Strategic Disaster’
    By Evan Lehman
    09/30/05 “The Lowell Sun” — — WASHINGTON — The invasion of Iraq was the “greatest strategic disaster in United States history,” a retired Army general said yesterday, strengthening an effort in Congress to force an American withdrawal beginning next year., Retired Army Lt. Gen. William Odom, a Vietnam veteran, said the invasion of Iraq alienated America’s Middle East allies, making it harder to prosecute a war against terrorists.
    The U.S. should withdraw from Iraq, he said, and reposition its military forces along the Afghan-Pakistani border to capture Osama bin Laden and crush al Qaeda cells.
    “The invasion of Iraq I believe will turn out to be the greatest strategic disaster in U.S. history,” said Odom, now a scholar with the Hudson Institute.
    Homeward Bound, a bipartisan resolution with 60 House co-sponsors, including Lowell Rep. Marty Meehan, requests President Bush to announce plans for a draw-down by December, and begin withdrawing troops by October 2006.
    The measure has not been voted on, nor has the House Republican leadership scheduled hearings. But supporters were encouraged yesterday, pointing to growing support among moderate conservatives and the public’s rising dissatisfaction with the war.
    Meehan, one of the first to propose a tiered exit strategy in January, when few of his Democratic colleagues dared wade into the controversial debate, pointed to “enormous progress.”
    “Talking about this issue, having hearings on this issue, getting more Americans to focus on it will result in a change of policy,” Meehan told The Sun. “The generals and commanders on the field in Iraq overwhelmingly are saying we need less in terms of occupation and more Iraqis up front, and that’s the only strategy I think that will result in getting American troops back home.”
    © 1999-2005 MediaNews Group, Inc.

    We should have employed Roman methods if we were going to intervene in the middle east at all. Much cheaper and not nearly so “sticky”. Let your enemies fight each other until both sides (or more) are so enervated that none remain dangerous.

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  26. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    That is quite contrary to Rumsfeldt’s blunt statement about why we went to war.
    Washington (CNN) – If the Bush Administration had known there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, it probably wouldn’t have decided to invade in 2003, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in an interview broadcast Sunday.
    Speaking on CNN’s “State of the Union” program, Rumsfeld noted there were multiple reasons for attacking Iraq and ousting Saddam Hussein from power. “No question it was the big one,” he said. Asked if the United States would not have invaded if the administration didn’t believe Iraq had the weapons of mass destruction, Rumsfeld said: “I think that’s probably right.”
    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/20/rumsfeld-wmds-werent-only-reason-for-war-in-iraq/

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  27. Paul Emery Avatar

    So George with the position of the Sec of Defense clearly on record would you say that Bush was responsible as the Commander in Chief for the failure in intelligence that led to war?

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  28. Russ Steele Avatar

    Paul you need to seek some help with your Bush Derangement Syndrome. Did Bush pee your shoes and he is never to be forgiven. Or, is your BDS just a distraction effort to keep us from discussing the real problems of the day being created by our current Community Organizer in Chief. My guess is both.

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  29. Paul Emery Avatar

    No Russ, I’m just trying to illustrate that lying to the American public is endemic and is typical behavior for American Presidents. The hypocrisy is thick when you apply different standards according to your political affiliation. Nowhere will you find me supporting Obama on this site certainly not Obamacare which is a big mess. My preference is for single payer is well documented and I stand by it. Most but not all contributors to this site are Republicans and found no wrong with Bush conducting the Iraq war but do not apply the same standards when they view Obama and his bumbling. They have no problem with Reagan and Bush 1 trippling the national debt. They have no problem with Bush 2 lowering taxes and returning money to the taxpayers rather than balancing the budget and paying down the deficit. They have no problem Reagan claiming ignorance to the Iran Contra doings while being Commander and Chief. Walt can spread total bullshit that the Obamacare website cost over 1 Trillion dollars which is a complete lie and not a peep from those who claim to represent truth, awareness and honesty.Walt writes: “Obamacare health-insurance exchange website, spent more than $1 trillion in just the first eleven months of fiscal 2013……..”

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  30. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 126pm, fish 1034am – I was asked for reasons I would accept why we invaded Iraq, and have no requirement to convince you of such reasons. But I don’t understand the charge that Bush2 lied – that involved knowingly telling a purposive falsehood – for which there is no evidence other than leftwingers making the naked assertion.
    To practice effective statecraft, must leaders lie to their people. History answers YES. Do I understand why that is so, YES; do I like it, NO? But since I’m an ideologue with an accurate picture of the electorate, I will accept certain leaders’ lies more willingly if I see them using such lies to take the country where I also think it should go. We all do that; and yes, that is a form of hypocrisy.
    In Obama’s case, there is not one direction that he has outlined for America, or browbeaten Congress to pass laws for, with which I agree – quite the opposite. As these pages attest, I believe that Obama has shown the federal government at its worst during his tenure.
    Re Mr fish’s 224pm – When all the accounting is done for that damn website (or more completely, implementing the functions of shopping for policies, applying for Obamacare, and signing up), then the bill will come to significantly over $1B. PaulE swaps trillions and billions with gay abandon, but he also should acknowledge that.

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  31. fish Avatar
    fish

    When all the accounting is done for that damn website (or more completely, implementing the functions of shopping for policies, applying for Obamacare, and signing up), then the bill will come to significantly over $1B. PaulE swaps trillions and billions with gay abandon, but he also should acknowledge that.
    I assumed that the “trillion” reference was a typo. That this monstrosity will cost a billion is crime enough.

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  32. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    I bet PaulE thinks Allende was killed by the CIA too. PaulE, did you criticize LBJ as much as you do BWB? You are stick on a rut.

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  33. Paul Emery Avatar

    Todd
    You are the one who likes LBJ not me. He escalated your beloved Vietnam War from a skirmish to a full war that we lost in the end under another one of your favorites, Richard Nixon. The Bay of Tonkin incident was a calculated lie to the American people justifying our military involvement which you support. It was much like the phoney WMD charges that Bush used to convince Congress to support his misadventure in Iraq. LBJ is your guy not mine.
    You didn’t like him enough though to enlist to support the war.
    From WIKI for convenience:
    “The outcome of these two incidents was the passage by Congress of the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, which granted President Lyndon B. Johnson the authority to assist any Southeast Asian country whose government was considered to be jeopardized by “communist aggression.” The resolution served as Johnson’s legal justification for deploying U.S. conventional forces and the commencement of open warfare against North Vietnam.”
    George
    Was the Tonkin incident within the boundary of a justifiable lie from an American President?

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  34. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 356pm – Comparing the Tonkin incident to Bush2’s WMD assessment is beyond apples and oranges. Tonkin was manufactured under LBJ’s orders and the lie was spread across the world. Its cover to let us put combat troops into South Vietnam had no plan on what we were supposed to do with those troops – we just went in an pissed away 50K+ lives with strict orders not to fight to win. Quite a bit different than the Iraqi invasion, no matter how things turned out in the longer run.
    But the bottom line is the same, you back presidents that do what you think is right for the country and excuse some of the means by which they get things done. And presidents that go the wrong way (according to your own lights), you ostracize. In this forum we argue vehemently to justify and condemn public policies and military adventures. And IMHO many of the arguments presented are quite good on both sides.

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  35. Walt Avatar

    Give it a rest Paul, or go out to the overpass with your ” Bush lied” banner.
    All you got is whining about ” NO WMDS!!!! Bush LIED!!!”
    Do you need the complete list of Pinocchi”O” s lies?
    Heck! I would probably need to take my boots off and use those extra digits
    to help keep track. How many ” I didn’t know”s?( when he actually did)
    ” I will get to the bottom of this.” ( then goes to the golf course)
    ” I will not rest until…..” ( off on another vacation)
    ” It’s not my fault,,, it’s the other guy..” ( when he knows full well it is.)
    ” I have the most transparent…Bla,bla,bla….” I’m sure there is plenty more that I missed.
    There as been NO truth out of him except for ” I plan to fundamentally transform America.” Nope,, there was NO lie there! He just had to, to get here.
    The end justifies the means… Right Paul?
    Then there is Jay the Carny flying cover for Dear Leader.

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  36. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    The comparison in my view is not beyond apples and oranges. Because of your Republican stain you are willing to give Bush and the dark crew of Neo-cons the benefit of the doubt that the false intelligible confirming WMD’s is an intellegance mistake. I contend it was a deliberate lie to scare the American people into beleiving Saddam was a threat to this country therefore justifying invasion. Most lame was relying on British intelligence which was an entirely irresponsible justification and almost beyond comprehension. If Obama were to spend 5000 American lives and trillions of dollars on a military adventure based on foreign intelligence you would have jumped all over him and called for impeachment when the intelligence proved wrong. Bush was in charge of the CIA and their failure is his failure. You continue to hold on to the idea that the failure of intelligence was an honest mistake. I contend it was a calculated lie much like the Bay of Tonkin. I would love to debate you in public anytime on that issue. Consider this a challenge if you’re up to it. For sure I’ll have the Libertarians in my corner on this one.

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  37. Walt Avatar

    The numbers are out !! DAY 1!……(drum role please) ,,,, SIX!! That’s right Boys and Girls,,, SIX!!
    Maybe a 1000 by now!

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  38. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    PaulE, you never answered if you believe the CIA killed Allende. You changed to you usual BDS and the Gulf of Tonkin. Then the usual attack on me. You are so predictable. But rather than doing the exercise about you not going to Vietnam, I will take a pass.
    I was 14 and in the ninth grade when the Maddox was attacked in the Gulf of Tonkin. I did support Goldwater that year though. LBJ was your bot not mine. I did vote for Nixon in 1972 when I came into voting adulthood. Long after Nixon tried to get us out of the war but your guy LBJ had us really entrenched there.

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  39. Russ Steele Avatar

    Paul E,
    Your proof that Bush lied is what? Where is your smoking gun pointing to the truth? Or, is Bush lied just your opinion?
    If it is just your opinion then you have a serious case of BSD, and you may need some serious mental health help.

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  40. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Like my buddy Lt. Calley said, “What, Mei Li?”
    Mr.Paul, there was some good music on your station this morning from 6:30-10am. Had me doing the smoothe movement thing after my cigs and coffee. Tell whoever played them blues this morning to keep it up. Yes, I digress again.
    Guess we cannot say “moving forward” on the topic at hand until we all say Bush was a puke bucket low life lying yellow bellied bloodthirsty ogre who got his jollies off by pulling wings off spotted owls. We are still stuck on “Bush did it to!!!” as if there is no topic in and of itself that can stand by itself unless we find some moral equivelency to Reagen’s ghastly dastardly deeds and dumbie Bush’s immoral infidelidties. Mr. Paul can never let that happen, just can’t let go and decompress. I am still mad as hell at the Teapot Dome Scandal that shook the foundations of my world under US Grant. Do you guys have any idea what went on durring the replusive Harding, Taft, and Harrison Administrations? Before we talk about our LIAR in CHIEF, we must first compare it to that harlot Andrew Jackson married or to that sad sack Andrew Johnson. And don’t get me started on that egomanic Teddy Roosevelt who killed elephants for sport. And that walking talking abortion Wilson. Gives me heartburn.
    Ronnie and George W had more character and integerity in their ear hairs than Obama will ever know. Can’t buy it and Obama is beginning to can’t even fake it.
    Nothing, absolutely nothing can be discussed without little Johhny saying “Why are you picking on me, Suzie did it too. Ricky did it first!!” So unfair. It is just not right.
    As my buddy Lt. Calley said “Two wongs don’t make a Right.”

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  41. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 518pm – One can only hope that one day you’ll be able provide substance for your assertion that Bush2 lied about the WMDs. Until then, your argument remains tiresome.

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  42. Gregory Avatar

    The archetypal “Bush lied, people died” was over the State of the Union claim that British intelligence believed Iraq was seeking yellowcake uranium in Niger. British intelligence still believes that, as did a bipartisan Congressional panel convened to investigate.
    Regarding the Bush CIA, Bush, in an early fit of bipartisanship, left Clinton appointee (and Democrat) George Tenet, and it was Tenet who told Bush, ‘It’s a slam dunk, Mr. President’ when challenged on the CIA WMD claims.
    Then there was Saddam, who, before he was executed, admitted he’d been trying to convince neighboring countries he had WMDs to keep them from testing Iraqi in armed conflict.
    And of course, let’s not forget Senator Hillary who argued against US ground action against Iraq because of the WMD’s that would be used against our troops.
    Sorry, Paul, but there should be enough bad to say about Bush without making up more of it.

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  43. Paul Emery Avatar

    Gregory
    It is the job of the CIA to get things right. Bush was responsible for the CIA. If you say Obama was responsible for Benghazi because it was his State Department in charge then you have to say Bush was responsible for the CIA getting it wrong about WMD’s.
    George, let me amend my assertion about Bush and WMD’s. Let’s just say he was provided with good ole plausible deniability for the purposes of letting the Neo Cons in his Admin do what they wanted to do which is establish a military stronghold in Iraq to ensure the control of the resources of region.
    Todd as to Allende. Officially he died of suicide during the CIA led coup but much controversy exists as to the details so I don’t allege he was killed directly by the CIA.
    It is established history that the CIA engineered a coup against his regime. If you go to the National Security Archives at George Washington University you’ll find this and links to the actual CIA documents that have been declassified.
    “In a secret cable, CIA deputy director of plans, Thomas Karamessines, conveys Kissinger’s orders to CIA station chief in Santiago, Henry Hecksher: “It is firm and continuing policy that Allende be overthrown by a coup.” The “operating guidance” makes it clear that these operations are to be conducted so as to hide the “American hand,” and that the CIA is to ignore any orders to the contrary from Ambassador Korry who has not been informed of Track II operations.
    Take a little time to read this page Todd then tell me what you think about our involvement in overthrowing a democratically elected leader in a sovereign nation.
    http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB8/nsaebb8i.htm
    Also Todd are you saying you were opposed to the war in Viet Nam? If you were what did you do to try to stop it? By the way, I supported Barry Goldwater but I was too young to vote. Later I became a Eugene McCarthy supporter.
    Todd
    Are you saying you were oppposed to the Viet Nam War? I also voted for Goldwater by the way.

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  44. Gregory Avatar

    During Benghazi, Obama was at the end of his first term and had his own people in charge.. in fact, the same Hillary who was sure of WMD’s in Iraq was running State, or at least pretending to.
    So, Paul, your argument is that Bush was too bipartisan in failing to purge Democrats placed by Clinton? Interesting concept.

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  45. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Thanks for the history lesson PaulE.
    Regarding Vietnam. I was a senior when I was asked by the civics teacher to take the USA side in a debate on Vietnam on the local cable program. I was not in favor or opposed at the time. I had lead time and asked the DOD for info as well as the Sec of State. I received much, studied it all and concluded we were following our treaty. Anyway, the fellow I debated kicked my ass and was thereafter known as the guy in school who supported the war.

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  46. Paul Emery Avatar

    But Todd you have to admit the Bay of Tonkin was a lie and that was the basis for the resolution to Congress that was the legal justification for our involvement.
    Gregory
    Who cares if Tenet worked for Clinton he was Bush’s hire at the time of the Iraq war therefore Bush was responsible for the performance of the Agency just like you claim Obama is for the State Department.

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  47. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 127am – I find it more than curious that you equate Bush2’s acceptance of internationally sourced intelligence from very esoteric sources to be equivalent to Obama’s months long ignoring of the Benghazi security situation, his unwillingness to respond during the attack, his obvious lies to cover up his ineptness after the attack, and no recourse taken against known attackers more than a year later. It highlights the gulf between how polarized America assesses its leaders and leadership.

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  48. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    What I’m talking about is accountability. Bush never took responsibility to this day for the failure of intelligence under his command. The CIA was certainly inept and their conclusion led to a needless war and the death and injury to thousands of Americans and a cost of at least two trillion dollars. Rumsfeldt finally admitted that the war would not likely have been fought had they known but not a peep from Bush.
    Your harsh critique of Obama is hollow when tempered by your silence on the responsibility of Bush in accounting for the war on Iraq.

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  49. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    Benghazi was a picnic in the park compared to the war in Iraq. During the heat of the war it wouldn’t have made the news.

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