Rebane's Ruminations
September 2013
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George Rebane

FutureMindA number of emails, articles, and recent announcements came together that made me again revisit the notion of man’s dream of physical immortality.  What if there were developed a pill that would genomically and/or proteomically rejuvenate a person, and taking such a pill every so many years would keep him going indefinitely?  It seems to me that such a pill, or even a more complex rejuvenation procedure, would put the continued existence of humanity at risk.

A friend and former colleague, Dr Keith Dutton, just informed me that the company that he coufounded – Lively – was successful in closing a second round of funding, and is now off to the races.  Lively offers a system that enables single older folks to continue living alone and maintaining their independence over a greater span of their life, thereby fulfilling a basic desire by all of us to maintain the homeostasis of normalcy for as long as possible.  Nevada County probably has a lot of customers for such a system.

Then there’s all the buzz on how education delivery is moving online (see RR posts on MOOCs and all the universities starting to offer their curricula over the internet).  The more important part of that is the efforts of older workers and even retired people who are enrolling in these courses to keep learning more stuff, develop additional skillsets to sell in the workforce, and to continue the never-ending pursuit of fulfillment.  The age cutoff for retiring from a stimulating life seems to be rapidly disappearing.

My old pal Dr Larry Press at CSUDH (professor of information technologies) has been a longtime promoter of all things internet and networking.  His blog is a good resource for keeping up with the latest in everything from network applications to distance learning.  Apropos to living a longer and much more productive life, Larry’s 23sep13 entry introduces us to FutureLearn, a collaboration of a group of UK universities.  “Their slogan is ‘Learning for life’, indicating a focus on students who are not seeking credit and degrees. That audience may turn out to be more important than traditional university students — more lucrative and more beneficial to society.”

During these pre-Singularity years the pursuit of life extension (cum immortality) is reaching the entrepreneurial levels of business activity.  Early evangelists like Ray Kurzweil are now being joined by start-ups like Calico (California Life Corporation) which Google has announced as its latest business venture (more here).   Actually, since Kurzweil joined Google, their investment in Calico is probably his doing.


In any event, the notifications and announcements of progress in all kinds of technologies that will promote longer and more productive lives keep pouring in.  Going back to the original question, I am reminded of two sci-fi classics of many years ago – A.C. Clark’s Childhood’s End (1953) and R. Heinlein’s Lazarus Long series, particularly Time Enough to Love (1973).  Each in their own way dealt with long life and the satisfaction of life’s wants, albeit at a cost.  I read these as a nascent teenager and as a young father, both made lasting impressions.

Lazarus Long is a virtual immortal who rejuvenates by the functional equivalent of periodically taking a pill.  In Time Enough, as a multi-millennial, he finally wants to die.  Long belongs to a secret society that owns this technology, and thereby expands a lively discussion of what would happen to humanity were this technology known to and then demanded by the great masses.  Not a pretty picture – after all, if children are to be born then the old are to die, otherwise there will be insurmountable problems.  In some ways we are approaching similar problems with our universal and ever expanding welfare system, as the part of America that no longer even seeks work continues to grow while enjoying a quite acceptable quality of life being supported by others.

In Childhood’s End we see the reaction to enforced global peace and dissolution of human creativity, utopia manifest, and the termination of all reproductive rights – and wrongs.  The last generation of the world’s children leave their parents and humanity behind as they prepare to join the galactic (cosmic?) Overmind.  Such an existence and pointless future becomes unbearable for the left behind adults, and some intellectually advanced communities begin committing mass suicide.  Be careful what you ask for?

But both Clark and Heinlein considered extended existence and materially abundant life only in the context of a human mentality in stasis – people with the perceptions, needs, and wants with which we all are familiar.  But under various belief systems and studies of esoteric knowledge, Man has already demonstrated that he can radically change his perspective of what is, and change his lifestyle accordingly.

As machine and Man continue melding their minds – a process already well under way with ubiquitous internet connectivity – our mentality will be in anything except stasis.  At a minimum, this can be said for the cognitive class that understands the current art of the possible, and recognizes the vast experiential fields that will open as we get ever closer to the Singularity.

In the advent of all this, the old order will not depart quietly.  And yet, how can it co-exist with the coming immortals whose universe will not be the one in which we have always lived?

Posted in , ,

125 responses to “Time to Live Forever?”

  1. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 118pm – I think you’re still having difficulty in discriminating between anecdotal and synoptic. The 103pm citations by fish are strictly the latter. For corroboration you can take a look at a government website that decries the current state of the NHS.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hunt-nhs-must-fundamentally-change-to-solve-ae-problems
    ‘Fundamental change’ in the NHS has been called for by British government leaders since Tony Blair. Sustainable systems don’t behave like this.
    And your vaunted citing of Australia’s system is misplaced. Its costs have been rising at over 9% annually, far outstripping the tax increases with which the government is able to burden its citizens. Sustainable systems don’t behave like that.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3291686/
    Finally, your apparent definition of ‘theory’ needs a little burnishing. In science, theory is the name given to a coherent explanation of all the observables. Additionally, the power of a theory derives from its ability to predict the future. The ‘Theory of George’ (thanks for the misplaced credit) has been doing quite well for some considerable years now.
    Your argument reminds me of a teenager assuring his dad that his fast driving habit is perfectly safe as witnessed by the fact that he has yet to kill or maim himself.

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  2. Paul Emery Avatar

    What it boils down to George is that you can cite no examples of health care systems that work at all and can offer no alternatives based on living examples. I agree that basic greediness for life creates the call for unlimited services and new products created by companies that know they will be subsidized by the government. There has to be limits and tempered expectations in any universal system. That’s tricky for sure but can be done and would at least cover my friend who would at least get diagnosed and treated and could possibly return to a productive life.

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  3. fish Avatar
    fish

    Sounds anecdotal to me Fish. That’s a no no on this blog. It’s easy to dig up stuff like that on the web. My data is based on direct experience and official reports. Check out Australia for percent of GDP, inclusiveness and satisfaction, which I’ve already done in an earlier entry and you’ll see my information is verified.
    Well I’ll leave it to the proprietor to tell me what’s allowed or not on his blog…..but to your other point…. while not official, that is, blessed by the government, newspaper articles are often referenced as legitimate sources. I’d be willing to bet that at some point in the past where you were assuring us that all the ice was melting or that it was all the Tea Parties fault you probably linked to a newspaper article online.
    That said, if you want to point me to your earlier research I’m ecstatic to review it.
    “Check out Australia”….thanks for the remarkable specificity

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  4. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 225pm – To argue that America, a premier destination for the world’s destitute and aggrieved, has arrived at the 237 year mark without a working healthcare system boggles the mind. I cite America.
    And just as all the other socialist countries dissatisfied with the state of their healthcare systems – witnessing their reform efforts – I have offered my own reforms that arguably are at least, if not more, socio-economically sensible than the ones being considered elsewhere.

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  5. fish Avatar
  6. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    We have self employed citizens who cannot buy health coverage at any cost losing their homes because of medical bankruptcy. That’s an example of our system as it exists today. At least those citizens will have affordable insurance under Obamacare that they don’t have today. Again I cite the example of our colleagues wife who was able to purchase insurance and have heart surgery likely saving her life. As bad as Obamacare is it has already helped many attain a healthy and yes, sustainable life, something we all deserve.

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  7. fish Avatar
    fish

    As bad as Obamacare is it has already helped many attain a healthy and yes, sustainable life, something we all deserve.
    Don’t know Paul….sounds anecdotal to me….That’s a…..

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  8. Gregory Avatar

    Paul, have you as yet verified my claim to you that the WHO healthcare report that put the US behind Cuba did indeed have as it’s highest weighted factor how much the system’s financial underpinning resembled France’s? And that the WHO report was written in (drum roll, please…) France?
    Actual outcomes are pretty damned good in the US.
    Paul, you want a system that will take care of your latest friend with a possible extreme problem, but we really have no clue what sort of choices she made that left her in the position of wanting care but not wanting to spend all her savings. You’ve told us she would have to spend all just for diagnostics; is that $1K, $10K, $20K? And how much (and when?) did the last insurance policy cost her?
    Any system we have has to keep the commons from being overgrazed. How would that work in the perfect system for Paul & friends?

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  9. Gregory Avatar

    “We have self employed citizens who cannot buy health coverage at any cost losing their homes because of medical bankruptcy. That’s an example of our system as it exists today.”
    Yes, and the lack of a functioning individual market for health insurance is entirely due to the income tax code that grew employer (and union) based plans to the exclusion of all else. A Dem sacred cow, tax free benefits. Fixing that and a simple requirement that no risk pool be smaller than a zip code or two would solve those problems.
    Next? Preexisting conditions?
    If you had insurance when the condition was diagnosed, you must be allowed into your zip code’s risk pool.
    Anything else?

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  10. Paul Emery Avatar

    Fish
    GDP:
    Australia % of GDP 9% -Ours is 17%
    http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS
    Accessibility:
    Australia Universal coverage for all with options of additional private insurance
    USA 40-50- million uninsured
    http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2013/September/17/census-numbers-uninsured-numbers-remain-nearly-unchanged.aspx
    Satisfaction:
    Australia is fifth in the world in satisfaction
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/11/us-healthcare-countries-idUSBRE95A0FJ20130611
    Anything else I can help you with?

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  11. Paul Emery Avatar

    Fish 3:07
    Not anecdotal Fish but a fact. Would you like to meet someone whose life is likely to be increased because of access to insurance? You can talk to them face to face about how awful Obamacare is.
    Also I sent some details on Australia GDP, accessibility and user satisfaction but it seems to have not been posted. I’ll try again unless it appears.

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  12. Paul Emery Avatar

    So Gregory 3:15), it looks like you’re in favor of tax increases as a solution to health care anemia.
    A simple statement like “if you had insurance….” (3:15 PM) has that big IF that nearly 50 million Americans don’t have so what good is that statement?

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  13. Paul Emery Avatar

    Gregory
    One more thing
    If I had an employee based insurance and had diabetes for example and I wanted to go i into business for myself, under your solution would there be insurance at a reasonable cost available to me?

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  14. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 541pm – the “50 million Americans” don’t have insurance number has grown markedly in the last two years from about 36M. The numbers are specious because only about 9M who want insurance don’t have it, the rest choose not to. These are the ones now being forced to buy insurance under Obamacare.
    I note that you didn’t address any of the points in my 158pm.

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  15. Paul Emery Avatar

    George 1:58
    RE Australia’s rising costs according to World Bank.org the percent of healthcare costs to gdp have only increased .2% in the four year period between 2008-2011 so whatever cost increase were incurred they did not effect the % of GDP.
    http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS
    As far as the theory of George you say that “theory is the name given to a coherent explanation of all the observables”. Fair enough but it sis safe to say that the individual liberties and quality of life in countries that have national health care programs, which is every modern country in the world. Show me the observables for example to support your contentions. Gee, folks in Europe seem to be pretty jolly and raise their families in secure and safe communities and indeed have far less crime problems and incarceration rates than we do. The “bayonets in the streets” as you like to characterize the future of all these countries seem to be pretty well concealed at this time. Countries like New Zealand, Switzerland and Norway for example seem to have stable and secure communities with governments that serve the needs of their community quite well.
    As far as the problems of Britain they seem substantial but adjustments are being made because they have to. That doesn’t mean they are going to dive into a free market healthcare regime anytime soon. We may agree more than you think about the endemic growth that government systems are inflicted with but the push and pull conflicts we see are actually a healthy thing and will continue into the future.
    According to you ALL governments in the world that have national health care are going to go bust and lead to totalitarian monstrosities. That is a bit much for any reasonable person to believe and is not being displayed to any noticeable degree.
    I’ll close with what Ronald Reagan said “Show me the Beef”

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  16. Paul Emery Avatar

    Sorry for the broken sentences. I meant to say ” “Fair enough but its safe to say that the individual liberties and quality of life in countries that have national health care programs, which is every modern country in the world seem to b intact and not declining to any great degree”

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  17. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Funny how hard a liberal will tell us how important the “right to privacy” is under Roe v Wade or growing MJ without government interference and yet turn over all their body rights to “national healthcare”. I am simply flabbergasted.

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  18. Gregory Avatar

    Paul 554
    I guess you weren’t paying attention. A preexisting condition that was diagnosed when insured, or insured since, should not be held against you.
    Insurance for the aging wouldn’t be as cheap as under Obamacare because the young get screwed with higher than their expected cost premiums to subsidize the old. Once again, the old are draining the young of income.
    Obamacare falls apart if the young figure it out and just pay the penalty tax.

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  19. ditecremote.livejournal.com Avatar

    Hi there, every time i used to check website posts here in the early hours in the dawn, because i enjoy to learn more and more.

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  20. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Toss wrote: “…and yet turn over all their body rights to ‘national healthcare.’”
    And what body rights might those be?

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  21. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    All of the parts, except for you MichaelA, your noggin is not worth much. LOL!

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  22. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    There you go again, Todd. Waving that big fat hand of yours under the stall and not getting a response. It’s depressing, I understand that.
    Here’s a great web site I found for you at the US Congressional resource center: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/1891307/posts

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  23. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    MA, My writing is over your head. Go to your room.

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  24. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    “Regarding the Senate. It is 54 dems 46 R’s. The House will be R’s after 2014. The dems in red states are in jeopardy and we may see some interesting debate today.”
    Another great prognostication from political expert Todd Juvinall, whose handicap of last years national elections was off by more than 7%.
    Put that one in your little brain recesses and bring t back when Democrats retain control of the Senate.

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  25. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Sorry to inform ewe SteveF, but my recess are much larger than yours. And pray tell us how you say there are 54 dems when two are indies? Isn’t that 52-46-2? Go to your room..

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  26. Paul Emery Avatar

    Fish
    Hopefully this will post
    GDP:
    Australia % of GDP 9% -Ours is 17%
    http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.TOTL.ZS
    Accessibility:
    Australia Universal coverage for all with options of additional private insurance
    USA 40-50- million uninsured
    http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories/2013/September/17/census-numbers-uninsured-numbers-remain-nearly-unchanged.aspx
    Satisfaction:
    Australia is fifth in the world in satisfaction
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/06/11/us-healthcare-countries-idUSBRE95A0FJ20130611
    Anything else I can help you with?
    Posted by: Paul Emery | 25 September 2013 at 03:18 PM

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  27. fish Avatar
    fish

    Anything else I can help you with?
    This is fine for starters.

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  28. fish Avatar
    fish

    As bad as Obamacare is it has already helped many… (again…the hereditary inability for members of the Emery clan to perceive irony.) attain a healthy and yes, sustainable life, something we all deserve.
    Hey…an anecdote followed by this statement…
    Not anecdotal Fish but a fact. Hmmm…will have to withold judgement on this questionable assertion.
    Would you like to meet someone whose life is likely to be increased because of access to insurance? You can talk to them face to face about how awful Obamacare is.
    I might. Probably would be better thought to wait for a few years to see how things play out on a larger scale.
    You’re an odd cat Paul.

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  29. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Fish, PaulE uses anecdotes as facts all the time. Not believable most of the time.

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  30. fish Avatar
    fish

    From your Reuters link:
    While the results show how patients rate their country’s healthcare system, he added, they do not reflect how one nation’s system compares against another.
    South Korea scored the highest marks in all categories.
    Residents of Spain, which ranked at the bottom of the list, gave poor scores on access to diagnostic tests, hospitals, drugs and specialists and patient experiences in all categories.
    Those in France also gave low grades for most healthcare services, except for diagnostic tests and for the speed with which they could access medical care.
    Poland’s scores suggested worsening healthcare in the areas of hospital and specialist access, while Hungarian patients were most dissatisfied with availability of specialists and a hospital, and speed of services.
    Sweden, which has universal healthcare coverage and among the world’s longest life expectancies, was No. 11 overall and received low marks for access to specialists, diagnostic tests and hospital, and coordinated services.

    (First item, not surprising at all. Koreans….the Irish of Asia…too hard nosed to complain like we decadent westerners)
    So in the established “socialized” European and Nordic countries it appears to be a mixed bag at best. The complaints that they have are those that Obamacare opponents think will be the problems with our new system.
    Obamacare opponents are wrong how again? It looks like we are going to take a moderately dysfunctional systems and graft a lot more government onto it. What could possibly go wrong!?!?
    Crap Paul, when all is said and done you’ll be lucky if this thing doesn’t consume 25% of GDP.
    Interesting…The system that you laud in Australia places 5th on the satisfaction scale….but our pliers and leaches US healthcare system still rates 6th.
    Still looking at the World Bank numbers.

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  31. Paul Emery Avatar

    Fish
    Remember, the task I undertook was to look at Australia’s system in three areas. efficiency, accessibility and satisfaction and they score higher than us in all categories with satisfaction being close to the US. There is no doubt in efficiency and accessibility they scorch us. This is a casual glance on my part so take it for what it’s worth. It certainty enhances the conversation. thanks for checking it out.

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  32. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Paul, thank you for giving us a bit of a picture of countries with non-criminal governments, where the people are relatively happy and things run relatively smoothly.
    And then we have our country, one of the most pitiful and f-ed up places on the planet. And getting worse by the day, due to people who refuse to lose. Willing to destroy the village in order to save it. Madness.
    If I was president, a whole bunch of legislators in Washington D.C. would be highly puckered right now due to some impending Executive Orders I’d be unleashing to “help” them do their jobs. Guess which ones?
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/26/opinion/collins-meet-dilly-and-dither.html?hp&_r=0

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  33. George Rebane Avatar

    MichaelA 220pm – Breaking out his true colors, he speaks like the collectivist autocrat he is. Thank you.
    (For the interested reader who wants to check the record – there is no one of the conservative, libertarian, or conservetarian ilk on these pages who would dream of suggesting that impending Executive Orders be unleashed to subvert the legislative functions of Congress. Yet the same leftists call us fascists. What gives rise to this massive disconnect?)
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2012/03/-the-liberal-mind-yes-virginia-we-really-are-different.html

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  34. fish Avatar
    fish

    This is a casual glance on my part so take it for what it’s worth. It certainty enhances the conversation. thanks for checking it out.
    As I said I’m still reviewing the numbers at the link you provided…if I remain real enthusiastic I may check additional sources. I’ll get back to you.

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  35. fish Avatar
    fish

    And then we have our country, one of the most pitiful and f-ed up places on the planet. And getting worse by the day, due to people who refuse to lose. Willing to destroy the village in order to save it. Madness.
    Presumably Michael, as a man with talents you could emigrate to a locale more to your liking. Give it some thought.

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  36. fish Avatar
    fish

    If I was president, a whole bunch of legislators in Washington D.C. would be highly puckered right now due to some impending Executive Orders I’d be unleashing to “help” them do their jobs. Guess which ones?
    Scratch a lefty…find a closet authoritarian! Well done Michael!

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  37. Paul Emery Avatar

    “Love it or leave it” right Fish? My country right or wrong. Invade sovereign nations, drone bomb civilians in their homeland………

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  38. Gregory Avatar

    “Yet the same leftists call us fascists. What gives rise to this massive disconnect?”
    That was the same persona he adopted when he scared my wife with his veiled threats as mandersonation at TheUnion. George, the Fascist left is pure of heart and he would just be doing what all intelligent, good people would do if they had absolute power of life and death over the evil minions of the Dark Lord. Or something like that.

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  39. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 420pm – I don’t think Mr fish had it quite that way. But I know how MichaelA might feel. For expressing my thoughts, I’ve been told to get out of America and go back to where I came from many a time on these pages by the Loyal Left.

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  40. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    I don’t recall that. Not by mme for sure. Can you cite an example

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  41. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 443pm – No not by you, I wouldn’t expect it from a friend. Google Mr Frisch’s comments for openers.

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  42. fish Avatar
    fish

    “Love it or leave it” right Fish? My country right or wrong. Invade sovereign nations, drone bomb civilians in their homeland………
    Jeez Paul take a breath, or a drink, or a valium…or all three!
    Oh Paul, what I love most about you is that you so reliably slip back into your favorite era at the slightest provocation. Protest marches…hippies chicks…..good times….good times indeed!
    Michael had a lefty hissy about how bad the United States has become. Michael works with computers….I’ll assume he has adequate skills to work not just here but in other countries. If Michael finds things so offensive he’s certainly not trapped here…he could find someplace more politically aligned with his needs and desires.
    What’s so wrong about making this suggestion?

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  43. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    George wrote: “Breaking out his [Michael A.’s] true colors, he speaks like the collectivist autocrat he is. Thank you. (For the interested reader who wants to check the record – there is no one of the conservative, libertarian, or conservetarian ilk on these pages who would dream of suggesting that impending Executive Orders be unleashed to subvert the legislative functions of Congress. Yet the same leftists call us fascists. What gives rise to this massive disconnect?)”
    George, fanning himself furiously like an outraged Southern Belle, takes umbrage at such talk…”Well, I do declare!!” he splurts.
    So you support a handful of ne’er-do-wells from the knuckle-dragging counties in the South shutting down the gov’t and destroying America’s good faith and credit, but an Executive Order from the duly elected President of the United States has you all a’ flutter. Hilarious.
    BTW, that whole “strong Executive Branch” problem? That’s your creation. Remember Richard Nixon? Own it. Now your Frankenstein monster is another flavor of ice cream; the Executive Branch turned around, stopped targeting the people you wanted it to target, and now you’re the target. Enjoy your monsterous creation. I am enjoying the umbrage, and here’s the bottom line: payback’s a mofo.
    As they say: America, Love It Or Leave It (-;
    Let’s let Blanche Dubois install the bookend–“I don’t want realism. I want magic! Yes, yes, magic. I try to give that to people. I do misrepresent things. I don’t tell truths. I tell what ought to be truth.”

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  44. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Goofy talk from someone named “fish”:
    “Michael had a lefty hissy about how bad the United States has become. Michael works with computers….I’ll assume he has adequate skills to work not just here but in other countries. If Michael finds things so offensive he’s certainly not trapped here…he could find someplace more politically aligned with his needs and desires.”
    I am not going anywhere. At any time. You are stuck with me. My ancestors came from Norway and helped to the tame the west coast beginning in 1861, Seattle.
    What I will commit to do is outing idiotic talk from people like “fish” who seem to have an un-American bent that may need closer scrutiny. Perhaps a visit from Homeland Security is needed? I can arrange that.

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  45. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    I’ll address you first George: “For expressing my thoughts, I’ve been told to get out of America and go back to where I came from many a time on these pages by the Loyal Left.”
    Yeah, welcome to my world. I am Fifth Generation west coast American, and from about the age of 9 yrs. old, when the Tet Offensive made it pretty clear to me that something was seriously wrong with this country’s leadership, I was told, “America, Love It Or Leave It.” This crap finally started to end when GHWB took office, but only because he was a complicit, compliant CIA officer who knew where his bread was buttered. Which cost him the election in ’92, BTW.
    So my deepest apologies if I am getting just the slightest bit of pleasure in the comeuppance of a segment of this country’s populace that is suddenly feeling estranged. MADE YOUR BED, NOW LIE DOWN AND STOP THE MEWLING PLEASE. Thanks.
    America, Love it or Leave it. Heh.
    The FEMA Camps are ready. These are luxurious accommodations, you have nothing to fear. Trust me. Seriously.
    For Greg, I am sorry that you still feel the need to allow you delusions to wander regarding an anonymous comment that was not even directed at you, since I had no idea who you were nor did I care. I am very glad, however, that you have latched on to me as your own personal tar baby, and I truly hope that in your therapy sessions that my presence on the planet gives you succor. Peace out, bro.

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  46. Gregory Avatar

    I was the only one your screed was directed at that day, Mike, and I was using my name and so I wasn’t anonymous, and you were using mandersonation which was clearly you when googled and so you weren’t anonymous. In short, you’re lying about it again.
    BTW, you’re still at it. That was over your global warming fanaticism, and it’s alive and kicking as your “precautionary principle” comment shows. That nasty little rhetorical device is just a restatement of Occam’s razor. Religion, not science.

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  47. fish Avatar
    fish

    I am not going anywhere. At any time. You are stuck with me.
    Okay Michael….it’s just that you seemed so upset….like a child having a terrible time at a birthday party. Thought you might like it better elsewhere…just sayin…..!
    My ancestors came from Norway and helped to the tame the west coast beginning in 1861, Seattle.
    Ah the exploits of the brave Anderson family, bravely taming the Pacific Northwest to make the world safe for…….Starbucks! God bless you!
    What I will commit to do is outing idiotic talk from people like “fish” who seem to have an un-American bent that may need closer scrutiny. Perhaps a visit from Homeland Security is needed? I can arrange that.
    I thought the progressive left cherished the rights accorded to all Soviet….err….American citizens!
    Tell you what internet tuff gai…..you want your DHS buds to talk to me…that’s cool! George has my work e-mail address he can give it to them. I’ll put a twenty down that my security clearance is higher than yours though! I’m sure they’ll be thrilled hearing from a pearl clutching “Gladys Kravitz” type furious that someone posted something on a blog that he didn’t like.

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  48. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Love it or leave it, “fish.” Love it or leave it.

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  49. fish Avatar
    fish

    Love it or leave it, “fish.” Love it or leave it.
    That’s the best you’ve got……don’t you want to threaten me some more?

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