Rebane's Ruminations
August 2013
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George Rebane

As we prepare to launch some sort of punishing strike against the Assad regime in Syria, the question of WMDs comes up again.  We recall that 1) no significant WMDs were found in Iraq after Gulf2, and 2) that our military reported large convoys of trucks headed to Syria in the weeks before Gulf2 started with its ‘shock and awe’.  Now we have evidence that Assad has used chemical WMDs – primarily the Sarin nerve gas – against both rebels and his own civilians.

What has been absent in the lamestream's coverage is the entire issue of how and when did Assad get the reported 1,000 tons of chemical WMDs that he has squirreled away across Syria.  There have been no reports, especially by Israel, of such a massive infusion of these weapons from other suppliers since Gulf2.  All we have is clear historical evidence that numerous convoys of Iraqi military trucks were observed heading for Syria before hostilities started.

The Left then gleefully reported the absence of Iraqi WMDs in their scourging of Bush2 for Gulf2.  In these pages (see comment stream here) we offered the reasonable conjecture that Saddam shipped his WMDs to fellow Baathists in Syria in the ample time he had before we started our last mid-east war.  Today this conjecture is again being picked up on sites like The Diplomad 2.0 (H/T to reader).

So now we are within hours of launching strikes whose only clear purpose is to risk American lives to deliver an inconclusive slap on Assad’s wrist.  And the purpose of that slap?  I believe it is only to extract Obama’s foot from his red-lined mouth.  With the given assurances of no intended regime change, what other interest could this inanity possibly serve?



[31aug13 update]  Moments ago in the White House Rose Garden President Barack Obama announced that his foot was more deeply imbedded than previously thought, and that he would now seek congressional support in its extraction before striking Syria.  Well, maybe not is so many words, but the message from Britain’s Parliament and the national polls to the president has been clear – don’t go it alone.

My own thoughts on the matter put a more comprehensive objective into play here as we await the return of Congress (now scheduled for 9 Sep).  I would advise Congress to get back to DC right after Labor Day, debate the matter, and give conditional support for the strike provisioned on the following –

1.    Make it not a pin prick with no threat of regime change, but a massive air/missile assault on all facets of Assad’s military infrastructure and fighting capability with the express intention that this action is intended to abet regime change.
2.    Include the promise and schedule of material military support to the secular Syrian rebels to aid them in prevailing against both Assad and the out-country radical Islamic factions hoping to turn post-Assad Syria into an Islamic theocracy a la Iran.
3.    State clearly that the US and its allies will support the new non-theocratic Syrian government against any remnant radical factions that intend to oppose such a new Syria.
4.    Enlarge the overall authorization to include the principled message aimed at Iran, that the US and its allies view Iran’s accession to the nuclear club with equal animosity as it holds all nations employing WMDs against their own people.

[2sep13 update]  Historian, classicist, and commentator Victor Davis Hanson is one today’s leading observers and interpreters of America’s fundamental transformation.   A recent interview with him is featured in the WSJ’s Uncommon Knowledge video series (here).  In it he discusses the role of human leadership at selected tipping points of history that reach back into antiquity, and bring us to the contemporary genesis of the Iraqi ‘surge’.  The finale to this compelling 40+ minute dialogue is particularly vindicative (new word) of the ideas presented and debated on RR.  Get yourself a cup of coffee and settle back for a stimulating interlude that is spot on relevant to what President Obama and his administration are going through now.

[9sep13 update]  As President Obama puts on the full court press to convince the Congress and the nation that Syria should be pinpricked, we revisit the simplest explanation for understanding his actions now and over the past years.  Recall that RR has maintained that his devastating policies for the country could always fall under the binary categories of being either inept outpourings from an incompetent administration, or purposeful in executing the promised fundamental transformation of America into a socialist state on par with the lost lambs of the EU.  I have continue to believe that the caricatured ineptness of this administration serves to hide his true agenda for the US.  Such incompetency is made more believable by the celebrations of his liberal constituency comprised of cynical elites, starry-eyed ideologues, and a plurality of the simply stupid.

Today in the 9sep13 WSJ neoconservative pundit and writer Norman Podhoretz offers ‘Obama’s Successful Foreign Failure’ that is an excellent summary of the president’s ineptness-as-camouflage foreign policy.  Of the utter confusion and lame denials (“I didn’t set the red line, …”) that now issue daily from the White House, Podhoretz writes – “Yet if this is indeed the pass to which Mr. Obama has led us—and I think it is—let me suggest that it signifies not how incompetent and amateurish the president is, but how skillful. His foreign policy, far from a dismal failure, is a brilliant success as measured by what he intended all along to accomplish. The accomplishment would not have been possible if the intention had been too obvious. The skill lies in how effectively he has used rhetorical tricks to disguise it.”

As often opined here, Podhoretz concurs that Obama’s visible history with “anti-American preacher Jeremiah Wright, unrepentant terrorist Bill Ayers, and the original ‘community organizer’ Saul Alinsky” laid the basis for his love of autocratic socialism that he sells under the rubric of “fairness” which can be attained only by dunning “the rich”.  Not mincing his words, Podhoretz unambiguously concludes –

“As a left-wing radical, Mr. Obama believed that the United States had almost always been a retrograde and destructive force in world affairs. Accordingly, the fundamental transformation he wished to achieve here was to reduce the country's power and influence.”

Posted in , , ,

123 responses to “Slap a wrist to extract a foot (updated 9sep13)”

  1. Russ Steele Avatar

    My guess is that Obama will launch cruse missiles for two days at Syria’s air force assets.

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  2. TheMikeyMcD Avatar
    TheMikeyMcD

    America….. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-08-28/how-america-gets-educated-syria
    Google trends search results for “where is Syria” and “Twerking”-

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  3. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    The lamestream will praise Obama as the second coming of Caesar. What a hero eh?
    I recall the trucks being reported and it was pooh-poohed as nothing by the lames. We all knew he, Sadaam, was getting them out of Dodge. Looks true now.

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  4. Walt Avatar

    This is where the “three monkeys” comes into play.
    Deny the evidence of convoys, deny Sadam ever had them in the first place, and HAS denied the multiple uses for a year.
    The Coward in Chief has erased, and moved his “red line”
    how many times? ( I have lost count)
    The real question is will “O” even go to Congress as required by the Constitution. Somehow I don’t think so.
    I recall being on an overpass one snowy day as the peacenicks
    came by, then news broke of “O” throwing a few missiles Libya’s
    way. ( nope, no going to Congress there either.)
    And just what did the “marchers” have to say when one or two of us “gave them the news”? ” well,,, O must have had a good reason…” Here they were, bitching about Bush and his “illegal”
    war, then without missing a beat, gave “O” a pass.
    We also have this ” The enemy, of my enemy, is my friend.” going on as well. So.. Just which side is which? The Muslum Brohood? ( the side “O” really likes),or Al-Qaida? ( the rebs?)
    Who was Amb. Stevens helping arm, now that gun running for “someone” was going on. ( Who the hell cares at this point?…. Right?)

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  5. Ken Jones Avatar
    Ken Jones

    Walt the march from the Union by us “peacenecks” was on March 13th 2011. The missiles the US launched at Libya was March 19th 2011. I guess you must have been clairvoyant on the bridge that day, or perhaps embellishing the story to suit your agenda. Easier for you to call the President childish names than focus on facts.

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  6. Paul Emery Avatar

    It is my understanding that the WMD’s that Sadaam had in the early 90’s that were cited as an excuse for our unconstitutional invasion of that sovereign nation had a limited shelf life therefore could not be what Assad is using. I have limited knowledge about that so any additional information would be appreciated.

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  7. Paul Emery Avatar

    More
    But the truth of the matter is that Iraq’s WMD may have even less of a shelf life than Ritter now claims — and the U.S. government knows it…….Furthermore, says this Defense Department report, “The chemical munitions found in Iraq after the [first] Gulf War contained badly deteriorated agents and a significant proportion were visibly leaking.” The shelf life of these poorly made agents were said to be a few weeks at best — hardly the stuff of vast chemical weapons stores.
    http://www.alternet.org/story/15854/lies_about_iraq%26%23146%3Bs_weapons_are_past_expiration_date

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  8. George Rebane Avatar

    Re PaulE’s 239pm – In the artillery, I was also a trained CBR officer. Our chemical artillery shells were then of a quality that warranted no consideration for their shelf life. At the time we presumed that the Red Army had equivalent chemical WMD’s. One can reasonably expect that in the interval these weapons have only become more reliable along every one of their attributes.

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  9. Walt Avatar

    Sorry Ken, But I recall that day vary well. One of the people next to me had
    a radio on when the news broke of the attacks.
    Matter of fact it was just after Keach was playing in the street with his camera, dressed like he was in Hawaii. ( sun hat, flowered shirt, shorts, and flip-flops.)
    The date you site, was the date of the story most likely.
    I tried to dredge up what the miserable excuse of what we call The Union these days had, but their archives are empty.

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  10. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    I think you jumped the gun here to try to make your point about justifying the war in Iraq. Here’s the scoop on Sarin nerve gas that you refer to in your post as the most likely WMD used by Syria. From the International Business Times:
    http://www.ibtimes.com/what-sarin-gas-syrian-government-forces-rebels-suspected-using-nerve-agent-1239273
    “If Sarin gas was used by either side in the Syrian civil war, it’s likely that the substance was made relatively recently. Depending on the purity of the chemicals used to make sarin, it has a shelf life of somewhere between a few weeks and a few months.”

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  11. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 402pm – perhaps you are right, perhaps. However, the nerve agent in Syria was delivered by either rocket and/or artillery, and to weaponize any chemical agent to reliably perform under those delivery methods makes me maintain my original point. I don’t think that the Syrians have that capability – everything they ride, carry, and shoot was made elsewhere.
    BTW, our nerve agent was not Sarin but a new and improved formula called VX, and as I said, it had no stated half-life. VX is/was much more virulent than Sarin, and I believe its mere existence was outlawed about 20 or so years ago. That, of course, has no bearing on what is still being stored and used.

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  12. Ken Jones Avatar
    Ken Jones

    Walt you are correct. The march and missile attack were both on the 19th. I stand correct.

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  13. Ken Jones Avatar
    Ken Jones

    Re: I stand corrected, not correct. Walt had the correct dates.

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  14. Paul Emery Avatar

    George 04:19
    Are you saying that the nerve gas that Syria might hae inherited from Iraq might have been leftovers from what we provided them to gas the Kurds and Iranians?

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  15. Russ Steele Avatar

    Paul@04:02PM,
    When I went through Chemical Warfare Training in the Air Force, we learned about the the delivery systems a potential enemy might use. The best delivery system was to have the chemicals on board the shell or bomb and then mix them in flight. This insured the stability and the potency of the product at the impact point. From Wikipedia:
    In some formulations, tributylamine is replaced by diisopropylcarbodiimide (DIC), allowing sarin to be stored in aluminium casings. In binary chemical weapons, the two precursors are stored separately in the same shell and mixed to form the agent immediately before or when the shell is in flight. This approach has the dual benefit of solving the stability issue and increasing the safety of sarin munitions.
    It is very possible that Iraq had the latest technology, having had some experience with delivering these types of WMDs, and that technology was passed on to Syria.

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  16. Paul Emery Avatar

    Russ
    Of course it’s possible but it’s not a theory that has much traction with reliable sources. The Bushers would have loved to have discovered that and I’m sure they did all they could to find WMD’s with no success. They literally scoured the country looking for clues to justify their WMD claims. Rumsfield himself said later that:
    intelligence reports — now shown to have been false — that Iraq possessed WMDs were the main reason for going in, Rumsfeld said.
    “No question it was the big one,” he said. Asked if the United States would not have invaded if the administration hadn’t believed Iraq had the weapons of mass destruction, Rumsfeld said: “I think that’s probably right.”
    He criticized the source known as “Curveball” — an Iraqi defector who admitted his claims that Iraq possessed WMDs were false — but stopped short of condemning the U.S. intelligence community.”
    http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/02/20/rumsfeld.interview/index.html
    Perhaps they had that technology when they had our assistance in gassing the Kurds and Iranians.

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  17. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 913pm – would you please explain how your comment discounts the very likely cross border transport of the chemical WMDs, since he clearly had them when gassing the Kurds and now Assad has them with no record of these amounts being delivered to him under extremely watchful eyes?

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  18. Paul Emery Avatar

    It’s possible George but there were no traces of WMD facilities in Iraq which were frantically searched for by the Bushkies with no success. Again, even Rumsfeldt admitted there were none. He blames “Curveball” for misleading the Bush Administration. Curveball later admit he lied
    However the question remains, where did they come from?
    More about Curveball
    “Curveball,” the Iraqi defector who fed the Bush Administration bogus claims of mobile weapons labs being developed by Saddam Hussein — claims that were later gussied up and presented to the United Nations as incontrovertible fact — is finally explaining the tall tale that helped launch America’s military.
    “My main purpose was to topple the tyrant in Iraq because the longer this dictator remains in power, the more the Iraqi people will suffer from this regime’s oppression,” he recently told a filmmaker with the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC).
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/04/03/iraqi-defector-curveball-details-lies-that-led-to-war/

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  19. Gregory Avatar

    George, don’t expect an answer from Paul regarding border crossings, he’s boxing again, not engaging in a discussion.
    Paul, binary Sarin, like all binary chemical agents, has a comparatively unlimited shelf life, and that the agent is Sarin is just a guess at the moment. We (the north American peasants discussing issues on a typepad blog) also don’t know for sure that it really was Assad who launched it, though I think Assad is the likely culprit; there are nasty people on both sides of the Syrian conflict.
    There are bright ChemE’s in the middle East and while they aren’t in a financial position to drive 21st century chemistry forward with cutting edge research, they’re perfectly capable of making late 20th century chemical concoctions.

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  20. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 952am – making weaponized chemical agents was pretty much out of Saddam’s reach also. And it doesn’t matter because when you import chemical warheads from other countries, you don’t need “facilities” for making the stuff. I imagine that the chemical warheads Assad used on his people were previously owned by at least two nations.

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  21. Al Avatar
    Al

    Not a “true believer” of Wiki, but this history version may help to understand the sectarian violence. There are other issues, too, not discussed in this Wiki, regarding fuel pipeline(s) from Saudi through Syria to Europe (and bypassing the Russian flows).:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alawi

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  22. George Rebane Avatar

    Al 208pm – But have you come up with a rationale for a regime sustaining slap on the wrist?

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  23. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    Buckskin shirt jacket and Levis for Walt, methinks the flipflops are an exaggeration, and any Hawaiian shirt would have been the bottom most layer.

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  24. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    Use a gas, assassinate, use bombs and bullets, fine, go ahead and have your lovely little war. Not sure of the logic here, or if there is any at all, really?

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  25. Paul Emery Avatar

    Gregory
    I’m totally open to the possibility though it seems unlikely that they came from Iraq. I think it’s kinda funny that George jumped on this as some kind of Bush cleansing moment. Pretty typical partisanship from these pages.
    I agree that there has been little in the press about the possible source of the weapons. Let us know if you find anything legitimate.

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  26. Paul Emery Avatar

    There is this:
    WASHINGTON — Syria’s chemical weapons program stretches back decades, allowing the country to amass a supply of nerve and blister agents capable of being mounted on long-range missiles that could reach neighboring countries, according to government and independent analysts.
    Its program stretches back to the 1970s or ’80s — experts disagree on the precise time — as a means of developing a deterrent against Israel’s presumed nuclear capabilities, according to analysts and a Congressional Research Service report.
    Chemical weapons were considered “the poor man’s atomic bomb,” said Gregory Koblentz, a security analyst at the Council on Foreign Relations.
    Syria has stocks of sarin and VX, which attacks the nervous system, and mustard gas, which burns the skin, according to the Defense Intelligence Agency.
    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/29/syria-chemicals-nerve-mustard/2730257/

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  27. Al Avatar
    Al

    All I think I know is that Assad is an Alwite, a small sect of Shi’a. This is why he’s supported by Iran and Hizbollah who are Shi’a
    (Plagerised) The Saudis (supposedly) want to build and control an oil and natural gas pipeline through Syria to supply Europe and Turkey.
    Assad will not allow this because his Russian Allies depend upon Russian natural gas sales to Europe to float their economy.
    If Russia loses the European gas market the Russian economy will implode and the Russians will lose a lot of clout in the
    world economically and politically.
    The muslim brotherhood (MB) (and 0) is helping the Saudis and other Arab oil states overthrow Assad so the Arabs can build the pipeline.
    The Russians simply cannot allow this and will go to war to stop the MB.
    The House of Saud put the illegal alien and criminal usurper in the W.H.
    Don’t really know, but trying.
    I believe that Kerry’s (he was in Vietnam, you may not know) humanitarism argument is shallow/false.
    In summary, it’s a mess, but I think that Assad should stay. Plus,
    mother Russia wants to be left alone to enjoy her Orthodox Christianity and her land.

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  28. George Rebane Avatar

    re PaulE’s 322pm – Were incontrovertible evidence to surface that Iraq’s WMDs were indeed transported to Syria before the start of Gulf2, it would indeed be a “Bush cleansing moment”, since the claim that Saddam had no WMDs has provided about ten years of Bush tarnishing moments. To argue otherwise does not deserve rebuttal.
    And the accused partisan jump did not occur in this post but several years ago as cited. However, in an auto-sufficient debate none of this matters.
    DougK 224pm – Agree with your sentiments.

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  29. Ken Jones Avatar
    Ken Jones

    Al wrote:
    The House of Saud put the illegal alien and criminal usurper in the W.H.
    Don’t really know, but trying.
    Trying? Hardly. Can’t take anyone serious that believes the President who was born in Hawaii is an illegal alien and a criminal. Sure Al. House of Saud = Bush? Maybe, see the pic below.
    http://sayitaintsoalready.com/2009/04/15/george-bush-kisses-a-saudi-prince/bush-kisses-saudi-prince-4-15-09/
    Equally hard to believe is the assertion that Saddam/Iraq sent WMDs to Syria. More a desperate desire to absolve President Bush of his cluster and lies about Iraq. Paranoia big destroyer.

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  30. Al Avatar
    Al

    K- We all remember Iraq’s convoy’s dust trails high-ballin’ toward Syria in those days. We should’a dusted a couple of ’em for forensics, as I thought at the time.
    0’s funding and matricutulation and rise is still a mystery to me at this writing.

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  31. Ole Bill Tozer Avatar
    Ole Bill Tozer

    I hope we stay far away from that place. I used to follow the uprising/civil war/ hostilities in Syria, but I guess I am war weary. Everybody seems to have their finger in the Syrian pie.
    Syria takes its marching orders from Iran. Too many reports of the fighting in Syria where there were no Syrians doing the fighting. Iranian Republican Guard, Hezbollah, The Mooslum Brotherhood, renegade fighters coming over after looting weapons in Libya and both sides massacring civilians and blaming the other. Al Q and Hamas. The Coptic Christians are paying the heavy price of trying to remain neutral….its all their fault.
    If we go in, send a couple dozen of Cruise Missiles right on Assad’s head and then let the country dissolve into another Iraq. There ain’t no good side, just bad sides killing each other. And neither side wants anything to do with an Israeli-Palestinian peace or even cease fire. None of those states do. And they don’t want the Palestinians moving there either. Look what happened to Beirut, once known as the Paris of the Mediterranean.
    Stay the hell out of there. At least Britain wised up today and backed out of any support of a strike. Oh, peaceful France lately is always the first to clamor for bombing the crap out of Arabs, just like they were begging us to join forces to bomb Libya. They even banned wearing Burkas on the streets of the Motherland..sounds kinda of anti-Mooslum to me. Guess they are getting tired of seeing burning cars and burning “no mans land” slums in France and want to see how it is really done in Ahabland.

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  32. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    Based on speech coming in at 10 am PDT, rockets will be launched (or may have been already launched) very soon.

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  33. Paul Emery Avatar

    OLe Bill 09:50
    “Stay the hell out of there”
    Yes and the rest of the region. I’m with Ron Paul on this one. Mind our own business and protect our borders.

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  34. George Rebane Avatar

    Wow! we all seem to be in agreement on this one. He should leave his foot where we’re used to seeing it 😉

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  35. Paul Emery Avatar

    “The rest of the region?” Really George?

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  36. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 1053am – Why not? If we went in there only for regime change (Iraq-Saddam, Afghanistan-Taliban), we should have left years ago or made arrangements for an indefinite stay. Announcing our departure, and then being shouted out by both Iraq and Afghanistan is not a good policy. Recall, that now we must evaluate all those actions by Obama’s recent (re)statement that Assad’s gassing his people is a threat to America’s security. That’s a bigger stretch than even Bush2 could muster.

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  37. Paul Emery Avatar

    How is that a bigger stretch George? We know for a fact that Assad has WMD’s and it’s been established that Saddam did not. As I documented even Runsfeldt accepts that. It was indeed Tony Blair’s frothing to the British about the imminent danger from Iraq that won the support of the Brits for our adventure.
    Rummy admitted that WMD’s were the main reason we went after Saddam and we probably wouldn’t have gone in had we known they didn’t exist.
    It’s really all about Israel and Oil of course.

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  38. fish Avatar
    fish

    How is that a bigger stretch George? We know for a fact that Assad has WMD’s and it’s been established that Saddam did not. As I documented even Runsfeldt accepts that. It was indeed Tony Blair’s frothing to the British about the imminent danger from Iraq that won the support of the Brits for our adventure.
    Rummy admitted that WMD’s were the main reason we went after Saddam and we probably wouldn’t have gone in had we known they didn’t exist.
    It’s really all about Israel and Oil of course.

    You’ll never know how much it pains me to say this…..but I think the facts are on Pauls side on this one!
    Good lord I’m tired of the middle east!

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  39. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    It’s an established fact that Saddam did use poison gas against the Iranians in their little dust up and that he gassed entire villages in Iraq. Unless Paul wants to say that Bush used the CIA to gas folks in Iraq and blame Saddam. I find it interesting that Paul readily accepts the WMD charge against Assad yet refuses to accept the far more documented case against Saddam. I’m not advocating any sort of action here, just pointing out what we know is true.

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  40. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    I know Paul will not accept reality, but I’ll try…
    HuffPo – noted extreme ‘right wing’ website.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/08/28/syria-chemical-weapons_n_3828476.html
    “The date was March 16, 1988, in a Kurdish town in Iraq, 14 kilometres from the border with Iran. The bloody Iran-Iraq war was in its eighth and final year.
    One day earlier, the townspeople had liberated Halabja. Iraqi forces were abandoning the area and Iranian troops, guided by allied Kurdish guerillas, had briefly entered the town.
    On March 16, according to eye-witness accounts and Iraqi pilots years later, poison gas was dropped from aircraft, killing several thousand civilians in the town, with the precise death toll unknown.
    1988 poison gas attack killed thousands
    Iran and Kurdish leaders, especially Jalal Talabani, now Iraq’s president, alerted the outside world. Iran flew in journalists, whose images of streets littered with corpses were shown on newscasts. However, no independent investigators visited the area.
    But Paul knows that Saddam never had WMD so all of this is rubbish.

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  41. fish Avatar
    fish

    But Paul knows that Saddam never had WMD so all of this is rubbish.
    Which Iraq was allowed to have (and used against the Iranians during the Iraq/Iran war) until after the first Gulf war.

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  42. Gregory Avatar

    Let’s remember that the Iraqis were supposed to help prove they had gotten rid of all their WMDs and did not have development programs, but instead played a cat and mouse game with weapons inspectors that was probably intended to give their neighbors heartburn, since fear of Iraqi WMDs was a key defensive element.
    It worked against the US, too. Even Senator Hillary Clinton argued against a resumption of hostilities because US troops would get gassed.

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  43. Gregory Avatar

    “it’s been established that Saddam did not”
    Not true, it’s only been established that the US and Britain found few after Saddam was deposed. Then there was that Sarin artillery shell used ineffectively in an improvised explosive device by Iraqi insurgents, and British intelligence still claims that Saddam was shopping for yellowcake uranium in Niger.
    Here’s a fun link from three years ago:
    http://hotair.com/archives/2010/10/24/wikileaks-documents-show-wmds-found-in-iraq/

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  44. fish Avatar
    fish

    Let’s remember that the Iraqis were supposed to help prove they had gotten rid of all their WMDs and did not have development programs, but instead played a cat and mouse game with weapons inspectors that was probably intended to give their neighbors heartburn, since fear of Iraqi WMDs was a key defensive element.
    They made it a nightmare for UNSCOM and hid both inventory and production capability. But by the time the second Gulf War…or Bushes Folly…if you prefer there were just bits and pieces left. Whether significant inventory left in the dead of night to Syria is still a matter for debate but middle eastern heads of state are not known for there trusting nature…that which you truck to Syria in the dead of night must just be returned to you on top of a SCUD.

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  45. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 1136am – Nothing of the sort. As everyone here has pointed out to you, Saddam did have WMDs and used them in the Iraq/Iran war and against his Kurdish Iraqis. He also could have stopped the Gulf2 invasion any time by allowing the UN to execute its WMD search, which he did not. The only thing that Rumsfeld has acknowledged was that the allied forces found no WMDs during their post Gulf2 search. None of this explains away or diminishes the likelihood of what was the cargo in those pre-invasion truck convoys to Syria. Your cherry picking the counter arguments and ignoring the inconvenient ones as if they don’t exist, doesn’t help. Somewhere along the line you want to establish the proposition that Saddam never had WMDs, and, given the evidence, that is proving difficult.

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  46. Gregory Avatar

    “He also could have stopped the Gulf2 invasion any time by allowing the UN to execute its WMD search, which he did not.”
    Saddam was directed to help the WMD search. He was to help prove all the past known stocks and production capacity was destroyed as promised. That didn’t happen.

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  47. Paul Emery Avatar

    Yes indeed George he had them during their scuffle with Iran and the Kurds. We have the receipts and helped fund the program. We continued giving Saddam billions in assistance long after we knew or the use ow WMD’s. Indeed a golden moment in American Imperialism. The bottom line is that according to our Sec od Defense at the time he had none at the time of our invasion. I have to repeat that Rummy said in effect that if we knew then what we know now we likely would not have invaded Iraq. Are you justifying the war?

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  48. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 433pm – Well, that’s a bit of progress. We now have Rummy back to what he actually said. Can we not justify Gulf2 on the same basis that we seem to be justifying the impending attack on Syria? After all, maybe Assad shot his wad with the last nerve gas attack and has none left. At least Bush2 had what the international community considered to be credible evidence.

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  49. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    First of all I am not in favor if intervention in this matter because it won’t do any good. There is little doubt (but some) that Assad used WMD’s in Syria. There is also little doubt (but some) that Saddam did not have WMD’s in Iraq. So to justify the war in Iraq, which you are inclined to do, and not support intervention in Syria is kinda odd. Either way, Saddam was no threat to us over here except to our forces harassing his sovereignty with fly overs where we don’t belong anyway
    In reality Israel is calling the shots here in pulling the plug on intervention. They could care less what side wins and as long as they are fighting each other they are not fighting Israel.

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  50. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    I can’t believe I am going to cite Saddam Hussein as a source, but here goes: Before Hussein had his head roll around the gallows floor, he said to our interregators that he HAD to let it be known that he had WMDs because he wanted that telegraphed loud and clear to Iran. Suddam was obsessed with Iran and considered Iran the threat, not the United States of America. He under estimated the US, but not Iran according to the headless henchman. Stupid Iraqis can’t even make a decent noose. Its not that hard. But noooooo, they turned the hanging thing into a soccer game. Just like the Tallywacker Tailban do for sport.

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