Rebane's Ruminations
July 2013
S M T W T F S
 123456
78910111213
14151617181920
21222324252627
28293031  

ARCHIVES


OUR LINKS


YubaNet
White House Blog
Watts Up With That?
The Union
Sierra Thread
RL “Bob” Crabb
Barry Pruett Blog

George Rebane

51st_StateEight counties in northeastern Colorado are looking at the possibility of becoming the nation’s 51st state.  Like so many idyllic locales in the country, Colorado’s population corridor along the eastern slope of the Rockies has been successfully invaded by progressives immigrating from places like California where they have managed to soil their own nest.  And like in California, huge sections of Colorado now suffer taxation and regulation without representation from Denver.  So, these eight counties are exploring ways to again become free to pursue their own ideas of life, liberty, and property.

RR readers are familiar with the Great Divide debate that is growing across America as socialism’s autocracy reaches its tentacles into the last lairs of self-reliance and entrepreneurship.  (See the Great Divide category link in the right panel.)  The Colorado Eight are just the latest jurisdictions to express their yearning for a future not destined for a coerced comprehensive collectivism.  (more here, and google ‘8 counties, Colorado’)

These eight counties may be on to something that can help preserve the Union, albeit in a restructured way that allows the Great Experiment bequeathed by our Founders to continue.  To the idea of breakaway counties forming their own state (a la West Virginia), I offer that restructuring could come about in certain cases where such counties abut a neighboring state more congenial to the culture and values of such disenchanted populations.  In the case of Colorado, these eight counties might consider appealing to Wyoming, if such a realignment is mutually attractive.

Here in California most of the more sparsely populated inland counties already stand raped by regulations from Sacramento and Washington.  We have little in common with the liberal legions that dominate the coastal areas, and the two big metropolitan regions of the state.  The new state of Sierra(?) is beginning to look better by the day.

There is no guarantee that such a restructuring will work because socialism is a disease powered by ideological evangelism – ‘We know what’s best for you, or else.’  And it spreads virally, appealing to the under-educated with promises of redistribution and through co-opting public education to manufacture more of the under-educated.  But then again, we can dream …

[31jul13 update]  For completeness, this contribution to RR’s Great Divide category was meant to elicit inputs from the Left that illustrate what drives such a notion of self-governance in the America of the 21st century.  As of this writing it has done so in spades.


While the main implication of the Great Divide has been some new form of the Union that may include restructuring itself as a confederation of groups of more ideologically cohesive states, some considerable number of Americans have also actively been advancing proposals for the secession of their several states.  Dr Walter Williams, the John M. Olin Distinguished Professor of Economics at George Mason University, writes in ‘Secession: It’s Constitutional’

Since Barack Obama’s re-election, hundreds of thousands of petitioners for secession have reached the White House. Some people have argued that secession is unconstitutional, but there’s absolutely nothing in the Constitution that prohibits it. What stops secession is the prospect of brute force by a mighty federal government, as witnessed by the costly War of 1861.

Secession has again emerged as an active topic of discussion on governance among Americans who reflect on the progress of the Great Experiment while we scale historical heights of ideological polarity as a nation.  In response to the pro/con commentaries and initiatives surrounding this issue, the Left has become apoplectic, as we will soon examine.  But before we get there I’d like to add to the record a thoughtful essay on the matter by historian Brion McClanahan in which he examines ‘Is Secession Legal?’

So, where are we on this current posting?  First, let’s recall that the topic I introduced above and wished readers to consider is not secession, but instead the alternative of restructuring the Union as is being variously proposed today, most recently in the reported eight counties of Colorado.  What I wanted to illustrate by this piece is the major force that motivates tens of millions of Americans to now openly talk about such initiatives and examine ways of achieving a more perfect Union.  And that force is the response of the Left which arises out of their profound ignorance about the workings of a democracy, especially as it has exercised itself over the life of this democratic republic.  An example of such a response has now presented itself in the comment stream.

While not being unique in any sense as evidenced by his like-minded brethren, I’d like to highlight the comments of Mr Steven Frisch on this topic (here and over the years elsewhere in these pages).  I pick on Steven Frisch because of the sustained virulence of his remarks (aka attacks) that illustrate the progressive mentality about the notion of the Great Divide.  As the CEO of a politically and ideologically active NGO, Mr Frisch is also viewed by many progressives hereabouts as being a leading intellect in their midst so that his words may be taken to represent a sort of pinnacle of thinking from that considerable quarter.

Nevertheless, from his remarks over the years we find that he is poorly read, for he keeps ignoring the national mood on the Great Divide and believes that the entire notion is a hare-brained idea cooked up by yours truly, alone on a forested ridge in our backwoods community.  As do all progressives looking for a fundamental transformation of America, he believes himself to be the true patriot and a cut above the rest.  From his commentary we see that he considers himself beyond enquiry about another’s arguments, and gratuitously supplies what others have really said and thought.  It is with those convenient strawmen that he likes to do battle, and over whom he then celebrates his victories.

His profound ignorance of American history and questions of constitutionality is about on par with the cohort he represents.  Samplings from such ignorance adorn his main thrust, which for reasons beyond specious is to attack the messenger for even daring to raise the topic of the Great Divide.

In his diatribe you will note that he has not understood the subject of the post, or what are the sentiments of the Coloradans in the eight counties.  In his auto-apoplectic state he instead quotes the oath taken by naturalized citizens like me, impugning that somehow introducing commentary and providing a discussion forum for what is going on in the country is treasonous and lese majesty to everything American.  And then ascending ever higher on the steps of hubris, he again invites me to go back to Estonia – “you can renounce your American citizenship and get the hell out of my country.”

Did you notice the “my country”?  In his froth he overlooks that he was born into MY country, for I was an American before him, and those like me worked hard to preserve and present him with a nation that he and his are now deconstructing.

But perhaps the real pinnacle of his ignorance is his sneering counsel to salve the grievances of the hundreds of thousands of American petitioners, including the Coloradans, by advising them, “I would have them vote George. I would have them vote.”  This as if these people have not been voting desperately all of their lives.

What the Frisches of America don’t understand is that carelessly tended democracies come to a time in their evolution at which a minority becomes permanently disenfranchised.  In short, a point is passed after which voting no longer works as the proponents and recipients of ever more comprehensive wealth transfer pogroms irrevocably tip the scales.  I believe, with accelerating technology, public education in the toilet, and systemic unemployment growing, that we may be past that point now.

What puts paid to this assessment is the unfettered control that the leftwing elites exert on an electorate with a huge and growing component of oblivians and the un/under-educated.  Nevertheless, there are at least one hundred million Americans who see the country as having gone terribly wrong, and who are desperately seeking ways to bring back the American dream which is no longer known nor shared by the majority.

Posted in , , , ,

213 responses to “The Great Divide through Restructuring? (updated 31jul13)”

  1. Gregory Avatar

    Ben, multiple companies that were formed to deliver letter mail over the centuries were closed down by the USPS, even one founded by Lysander Spooner because he thought he could deliver a letter anywhere in the country for 5 cents when the Post Office was charging 12.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Letter_Mail_Company
    Why does FedEx cost more than twice what PriorityMail costs? It’s because the USPS wrote the terms under which FedEx could deliver something that looked like mail:
    “In 1979 the Postal Service authorized the delivery of extremely urgent letters outside the USPS; this has given rise to delivery services such as Federal Express and UPS’s express mail services. These letters must either cost at least the greater of $3 or twice what First Class (or Priority) mail service would cost, or they must be delivered within strict time limits or otherwise lose value. They must be marked “EXTREMELY URGENT”. Records of pick up and delivery must be maintained for Postal Service inspection if the time sensitive exception is being used.”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Express_Statutes
    Ben, I’m not “trying to be disagreeable”, it’s just that idiotic, rabid and undereducated “Progressives” can’t help but write things that I disagree with.

    Like

  2. Gregory Avatar

    “How on earth can you say someone who works full time hours but cannot afford the general necessities or standards of living we have set up isn’t a victim of a corrupted and rigged system?”
    The world doesn’t owe anyone a 20/21st century USA upper or middle class, existence, Ben, nor do your fellow Americans. Sorry to burst your bubble. It comes easy to some, hard to others, some work hard and fail, some barely work and succeed spectacularly, but in general, if you do something that is valued by others you get money, if you don’t, you get poor, or at least poorer.

    Like

  3. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George and Greg,
    This is towards the great divide between you guys and myself.
    1) You guys refuse to wrap your brain around “We” are supposed to be the government it is not some other it is supposed to be us and we are supposed to have a say in how it is run. That has not happened up until this point because those who do have power hate democracy (direct or indirect) with a passion and try to trample any attempts to practice it. Does it mean we don’t continue to fight for it? No way we always need to be on guard or pushing back in the 24/7 class warfare.
    2) Progressives don’t want to steal from somebody else progressives want a system where everybody is compensated justly. When the top 1% rakes in 93% of economic gains such as in 2010 we have a rigged system. That same system produced over 80% of economic gains in a 30 year cycle went to the top 1%. This is a system that needs to be drastically reformed.
    You can say this is a very biased report or article but unless they used totally unorthodoxed methods and data the general gist of the findings point to the same dysfunction and imbalanced economic policies.
    Striking It Richer
    http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/03/06-5
    “According to a new report, nearly 93% of the economic gains made from 2009 to 2010 went to the wealthiest 1% of Americans. “Top 1% incomes grew by 11.6% while bottom 99% incomes grew only by 0.2%. Hence, the top 1% captured 93% of the income gains in the first year of recovery,” reads the report by Emmanuel Saez titled Striking It Richer: The Evolution of Top Incomes in the United States (pdf).”

    Like

  4. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Just sent to me by a fellow anti R and D friend. By your guys standard this is just fine that our representatives calling lobbyists begging for money/ support that would sure as hell have strings attached. If publicly financed incumbents would spend more time governing such as writing or even reading bills they are going to vote on instead of calling for dollars so they can run smear ads during campaign season. As I have heard Bernie Sanders (I) VT say many times, the average US Senator wakes up in a in-session work day knowing they have to raise $10,000 if they want to be competitive in their next election. $10,000 a day is a number that would be impossible from an electorate that has seen their incomes stay the same or even reduce over the last 30 years. An electorate who has seen the unionized workforce go from around 30% in 1980 to roughly 12% in 2013. An electorate who has seen millions of manufacturing living wage jobs and over 15,000 factories leave the US since 2000. An electorate who has seen over 80% of economic gains go to the top 1% in that same time frame.
    Stunning Leaked Voicemail: This is Exactly What Bribery Sounds Like
    //daily.represent.us/voicemail-begging-for-cash/
    “This message was left for a lobbyist. That’s right, Norton literally called a lobbyist with the sole intention of squeezing out some money.”

    Like

  5. fish Avatar
    fish

    Gee Ben….you should really notify the authorities…..I’m sure they’ll resolve the issue promptly.

    Like

  6. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Brother Ben, Brother Ben, where have you been, my Brother Ben?
    “In every segment of every categorized group there are around 10% that are slackers or scammers. A 90% success rate is about as good as we will ever get. Punishing 90% because of the behavior of 10% is very backwards way of producing the best results. In fact it exacerbates the problem and that 10% due to circumstances grows as the inequality grows.
    Exactamondo My Brother! Why should we all get punished for the 10% of any group that are slackers. Raise our taxes to spoon feed the slackers? Dump billions down the rat hole to try as we may to raise that 10% up to some semblance of evolution? You are correct. Welcome back to the thing that Robin Williams labeled as “Reality, what a concept.”
    Now that we have established the the 90% of us are being punished by the 10% who are slackers, I can see you are more than just a nice guy. You, my Brother, are not a lost cause.
    PS: Without the untold truckloads of cash that Wall St. pays to the Great State Of New York via taxes, the entire state and Big Apple would go bust in days. Any downturn in Wall St activity puts fear in every New York politician and trash collector. They are still reeling from lost revenue when Wall St. went PC and cut employees big fat bonuses. Good thing that happy days are here again. Hope for the hopeless warms the cockles of me weary heart.

    Like

  7. Gregory Avatar

    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators”
    P.J. O’Rourke
    The answer is to make the Feds less controlling of buying and selling, Ben. Not more. Wage and price controls, whether for ranch hands, beans or legislators, do not control prices.

    Like

  8. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Political jokes are not funny because they usually get elected.
    “Just because someone posts a picture of Abe Lincoln on the internet with a quote under it, does not mean he actually said it.”
    —U. S. Grant, 1873

    Like

  9. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Bill,
    That 9:1 ration includes those who use social programs. 90% use the program as it is set up and 10% exploit it. Some in that 10% consider themselves conservative, some liberal, but my guess most of them have no affiliation.
    9:1 is part of doing business as a nation. 9 people are temporary helped to get them out of some tough times for every 1 person who exploits the system.
    Your Bill Tozer could be hit by a drunk driver, which results in you unable to work. Even if you were insured up to your eyeballs after a few years tops you would become dependent on these social programs. 1/3 of Social Security benefits goes to the handicapped, orphaned, or widowed. Actually this is where Todd educated me on this but there cracks in the system where under certain circumstances a widow could be denied SS, which is wrong and bs. Do I think these programs are error free, not even close but the elimination of such programs would hurt millions of Americans. What we need to do is fix those problems to make sure everybody has the security they are entitled.

    Like

  10. Al Avatar
    Al

    When those of vision are too discouraged to envision and consummate, there We go. Others will fulfil.

    Like

  11. Gregory Avatar

    Ben, no one is entitled to anything in particular from Social Security; the benefit is whatever Congress says that becomes law. My mother-in-law, a former SSA employee and “notch baby”, was incensed about getting less benefits than some older and younger retirees. Basically, Congress did the best they could with the fixing of an early error and in reality, no one was deprived of any benefit they were entitled to.
    Regarding the very tippy-top of earners getting most of the goodies as of late, there’s a reason the area around Washington DC has the highest incomes of the country, and the higher the spending of the Feds, the more lopsided the economic results.
    Your problem here is that all of the conservatives, “conservatarians” and libertarians here (the majority of this sandbox) think your ideas would make Everything worse, not better.

    Like

  12. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    GG wrote: “The world doesn’t owe anyone a 20/21st century USA upper or middle class, existence, Ben, nor do your fellow Americans.”
    It’s not about “owe,” it’s about best practice. But you would know nothing about that since everything you write here is about sticking it to the people who are unlike you. Whatever dude, you continue to have nothing to contribute.
    I heard Stan Miller on KNCO today talking about Common Core, and at least he is out there supporting it. Are you available for a counter interview? Of course not, your only venue for spew is here on RR. Sad.
    http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/03/crumbling-american-dreams/?hp&_r=0

    Like

  13. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Brother Ben, I guess I popped the champagne corks prematurely, but the welcome mat is still waiting for you.
    Silly me, I thought you were seriously taking about 90% of society gets punished for the 10% who are slackers and schemers and that is so wrong. My mistake. I am a worm.
    Guess you were taking about 90% of the 10% or something. Oh, how I wish that only 10% of those who have applied for disability since the great recession were truly disabled. Some reports put that figure at 40+%, not 10%. Oh, how I wish is was only 10% who are schemers. Joe Bidden would call them unpatriotic for sure. Notice the new PSA for reporting fraud?. A national program channeled through the states.
    What are those figures? Something like 7 million people on disability when Obama took office and now is over 11 million. Weird. Something must be in the water or the Russians are messing with our air again. At least the states found a place to get ’em off their rolls and on the backs of Our Great Father in Washington.
    Perhaps this is the change Obama was talking about. Social Security is still treading water, but this National Disability scandal will sink the life raft. Although I think the word crisis is way overused and thrown about lightly covering everything from a cell phone provider going down overnight to a snowstorm, these shocking figures of the explosion of long term disability claims qualifies for a crisis. Like a national panic attack and we all qualify cause of stress. Guess too many don’t like the heat and are bailing from the kitchen.
    Oh Brother Ben, I long for the day when we can join hands and proclaim that only 10% of those on disability are schemers.

    Like

  14. Gregory Avatar

    mandersonation, you’re talking to yourself again, I see.
    “It’s not about “owe,” it’s about best practice.”
    OK, Mike, it’s best practice to not guarantee a middle class existence to anyone, as it’s a guarantee more will not try to earn it themselves. Capische? The world doesn’t owe it to anyone, including me.
    Mike, Stan Miller is paid to support CCSS (not that he’d have to in order to believe in it), and Common Core formalizes the constructivist educational practices that (his boss) Holly Hermansen’s husband brought to the Grass Valley School District and helped drive standardized test scores into the mud.
    If KNCO would like to interview someone to balance out a local ed industry spokesman, I’d be happy to beat the bushes for an expert on the other side.

    Like

  15. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Greg,
    “The world doesn’t owe anyone a 20/21st century USA upper or middle class, existence, Ben, nor do your fellow Americans.”
    Spoken like true man of privilege. I to am a man of privilege but the difference between us is I realize it and you don’t. Our privilege allowed us to choose the direction we wanted where most do not have that luxury. I chose to work hard, play hard, and live in very nice places. I knew being a white male of average to above average intelligence with good work ethics I could always find a job that is what white male privilege allowed me to do. Interestingly the entire time as a single man living between CA, CO, NV, and HI and about a year between Alaska and Mexico on long extended trips I had health insurance. I scraped, saved, and sold my truck and tools to make some of those trips. When I got together with my wife a mishap with our shared insurance broker caused me to lose my coverage.
    Just because we have a dysfunctional unjust economic system doesn’t mean we throw our hands up and say oh well I got mine screw the rest. It doesn’t mean that for me anyway.

    Like

  16. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Sorry Bill,
    My guess in practice you and I aren’t that far apart. Generally speaking most of my arguments aren’t to benefit myself. I have lived at a very high standard in my opinion and have pretty much dictated the direction of much of my life’s decisions. I have had my share of shit sandwiches as well but all in all I have lived a good life. My fight is for those who never had that opportunity because of one reason or another. Just the fact we were lucky enough to be born in the US is one lucky draw if you ask me.

    Like

  17. Gregory Avatar

    “Spoken like [sic] true man of privilege. I to [sic] am a man of privilege but the difference between us is I realize it and you don’t.”
    You don’t have a clue about the differences between us, Ben. What makes you think I “got mine”? I’ve not bought a new car since 1999 as the wheels haven’t fallen off that ‘luxurious’ Chevy Prizm (Toyota Corolla) though a tree did fall on it, giving it that sought after rustic Nevada County look.
    Is that the sort of upper class “I got mine” you were talking about? Or maybe the fact that because of where we live our son had the right to a free substandard education at the Grass Valley School District?
    Oh, it’s because I’m white? Sorry, I can’t feel guilty about something I have no control over. Get over it. My roommate my freshman year was a black kid from Greenwich Village whose mom was a middle manager at IBM; his roomie was a white kid born in East LA whose dad was the first college grad in the family, and attended that ELA high school that had a Mexican flag raised by a mob one Cinco de Mayo… so which one had the better start in life?

    Like

  18. fish Avatar
    fish

    I knew being a white male of average to above average intelligence with good work ethics I could always find a job that is what white male privilege allowed me to do.
    Ahhhh….the progtard catechism is strong in this one! Well Ben what have to done today to abase yourself before those “others” not like you? What penance have you performed?

    Like

  19. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    The Great Divide is so evident here. I have always been fascinated at how two people can see the same thing at th same time and come away with 180 degree differences. BenE and MichaelA are the best examples of people with blinders on to the reality of the planet.

    Like

  20. Paul Emery Avatar

    So Gregory
    I assume you have no references or documentation to your allegation that “” reports are that they are given the run around when they do”
    By the way reports are that Reps LaMalfa and McClintock have been seen tossing puppies off the Brunswick overpass.

    Like

  21. fish Avatar
    fish

    By the way reports are that Reps LaMalfa and McClintock have been seen tossing puppies off the Brunswick overpass.
    Hey Ben……Uncle Paul escaped from the attic again! Could you go collect him before he starts exposing himself to the neighbors!
    Senility really is tragic!

    Like

  22. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Greg,
    You’re hopeless. The statement that I understand it and you don’t couldn’t have been clearer by your response. The privilege white males have isn’t about material wealth per se. That privilege allows white males to have more access and opportunity. That was the point to my personal example. Very few people of color would have had the opportunity to live the type of lifestyle I did for many reasons you are obviously incapable of comprehending.
    I will put it to you in a easy way so you might be able to understand. White males have to work at least half as hard for the opportunities they get.
    Is that simple enough for you?
    It doesn’t mean you didn’t work hard. It means a black male of your age would have had to work at least twice as hard as you to even get the chance at the same opportunities. Even then it still isn’t equal. That is what a culture and society where white males have dominated by force has given you. Doesn’t matter if your relatives where here or not the fact your physical traits match the traits of the those who set up our nation from day one until today.

    Like

  23. Paul Emery Avatar

    Tish
    I’m just using Gregory’s tact of spreading unfounded rumors as truth. I guess that’s fair game here. Yes, I did hear reports from street oracles in Nevada City that are highly reliable souses.

    Like

  24. fish Avatar
    fish

    I’m just using Gregory’s tact of spreading unfounded rumors as truth.
    Well for the love of god try and be entertaining….is that too much to ask?

    Like

  25. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    I don’t believe for one moment Paul is the type of guy to toss puppies off the overpass. See, I defended Mr. Paul as I would any of you.
    No, Paul is more the kind of guy that would bash puppies over the head in the privacy of his dungeon. He, like myself, hate witnesses. If a tree fell in the woods and there no witness…..hmmm.
    If fact, I have defended each and everyone one of you. When a unnamed person said that the posters on RR ain’t fit to eat with the pigs, I shot back “Yes we are!”
    I feel at home here. Its just like one big dysfunctional family. Just like momma used to make.

    Like

  26. Gregory Avatar

    Paul, no one would toss puppies off that overpass. It was kittens.
    Yes, I have links but am waiting for your accusations to get more shrill.
    Ben, people with the same educational background (comparing apples to apples: no, Ethinic Studies isn’t as remunerative as Petroleum Engineering) have remarkably similar incomes despite differences in skin color. I even lost a job once when (I found out later when the hiring manager got drunk at a company party and blurted it out to my sister) he was forced to hire the best black engineer he could find to balance out the lilly white office filled with MD’s and physiology PhD’s who were designing the sensors for things like automated blood pressure cuffs and respirators, cutting edge stuff circa 1981.
    The ‘soft racism of low expectations’ explains much of the problem Ben’s perceptions is based on.

    Like

  27. Paul Emery Avatar

    Gosh Fish, I thought “Highly reliable souse” was pretty funny. I guess I need to talk to my joke writer.

    Like

  28. fish Avatar
    fish

    I feel at home here. Its just like one big dysfunctional family. Just like momma used to make.
    Well said Bill!
    Since you’ve elected to go down this road it is incumbent upon me to come clean. I’m an immigrant…not a local (I leave it to the RR commentariat to decide whether or not I should be deemed illegal)! I only arrived here because I got tired of seeing Jeff Porcines…err…Jeff Pellines trough snorkel continually staring back at me in the SacBee and did a little detective work. Eventually leading me to Georges “Dysfunction Junction”!

    Like

  29. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Brother Ben. If a black male has to work twice as hard to get what us privileged white folk get with half the effort, then so be it. Take that as a starting point and teach each one that they have to work harder than their neighbors to get ahead. Tell them that is the hand they have been dealt with but it does not have to be their legacy. They do not have to end up as another sad chapter in a long book. No, they CAN do it. They will have to work harder, be more determined, expend more energy to the road of changing their future. A quitter never wins, a winner never quits.
    I thrive in an environment where the deck is stacked against me. The word “can’t” just gets my under performing butt off the chair. My motivation. If I have to hustle twice as much just to be on par with my co-workers, then that is what the cards I have been dealt.. It ain’t about money or prestige or power or popularity. It is about following in the footsteps of those who have made it through the mine field.
    Here is an expression I never liked because of its coarseness. “Look up the word sympathy. Its between shit and syphilis in the dictionary”. Words of encouragement and tough love. When the pupil is ready, the teacher will appear, be it with a kick in the rear or a gentle word of encouragement.

    Like

  30. fish Avatar
    fish

    Save your breath Bill….it’s not about blacks…or gays, or women, it’s about Ben!
    It always is with the progressives…… the salve of moral superiority!

    Like

  31. fish Avatar
    fish

    Gosh Fish, I thought “Highly reliable souse” was pretty funny. I guess I need to talk to my joke writer.
    Mr. Emery is awarded a point! And curse my miserable speed reading skills!

    Like

  32. Gregory Avatar

    Here are some deep thoughts for Ben to ponder…
    “Recent statistics on the students who passed the examination to get into Stuyvesant High School raise troubling questions that are unlikely to receive the kind of serious answers they deserve.
    These successful applicants included 9 black students, 24 Latino students, 177 white students and 620 Asian Americans….
    When teaching at UCLA, years ago, I once went into a library on a Saturday night, noticed how many Asian students were studying — and looked around in vain for any black students. How surprised should I have been when Asian students did better in the courses I taught?”

    http://www.creators.com/opinion/thomas-sowell/tests-and-tiger-moms.html
    Sowell, when recounting that UCLA library excursion, added that there were also white students in the library on Saturday night but it was a majority Asian shindig.
    What of UC racial makeup nowadays?
    “Who is getting those coveted slots at Berkeley and UCLA anyway? Consider: Asians make up to one-ninth of the California population, but one-third of all those admitted to the UC system for the fall of 1998. At Berkeley 38% of the places went to Asians, at UCLA 41%. By contrast, non-Hispanic whites comprise 54% of California’s population but only 36% of newly admitted students. Asians thus have three times as many university slots as their numbers would warrant, while whites have a third fewer than their share of the total population. Race-neutral admissions policies are indeed having a disproportionate racial impact—they are negatively affecting the state’s most “privileged” racial group.”

    http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/_wsj-consequences_of_colorblin.htm
    I’ve got no problem with this. When I ate lunch with my son on move-in day at Cal, he noticed there were more Asian students sitting at our table than even attended Nevada Union High School. They all earned their spots, and they deserved them. I was a little concerned about his ability to compete after his education here in the sticks, but he proved he could hack it.
    In general, Ben, blacks, latinos and whites are being out-worked by asians. Show me a black man who is working twice as hard as a white man to get by, and it’s a good bet that they were working half has hard back in K-12 and had a lousy school that employed teaching staff that worked half as hard back when they were in K-16.

    Like

  33. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    You guys are so privileged and entitled you’re missing the entire point even when it is spoon fed to you. No matter how hard you worked doors were there for you that would not have been for a person of color or for a woman.
    Talk about a bunch of privileged entitled whiny brats!
    Power To The Peaceful
    I’m Out

    Like

  34. George Rebane Avatar

    Gregory 450pm – Wrong approach, they don’t do numbers.

    Like

  35. Gregory Avatar

    Ben, spoon fed BS remains BS. Discrimination exists and I’ve been mostly (but not always) a beneficiary and not a victim, but what remains most important are one’s life choices involving work, study, family, marriage and procreation. Not to mention felonious behavior.
    I recall when Tom Bradley (black) ran for Governor against George “Duke” Deukmejian. Some made hay with a survey that showed there was discrimination by many voters against a generic black candidate, ignoring another survey that voters would prefer a black candidate to an Armenian one…

    Like

  36. Paul Emery Avatar

    Boy Gregory do I know a lot about that race. I played music for the wedding of Sal Russo who took over Dukes campaign late in the race when he was loosing. always called Sal the man who made me governor. I recall a conversation I overheard with Sal at the wedding, which was two weeks after the election when he explained the strategy he employed which was to spend millions to defeat a gun control Proposition which was going to lose anyway because the voters that would oppose the measure would likely not vote for an African American on the same ballot. “Duke” then won virtually the tightest race in California history. I heard this with my own ears directly from the source (Russo) Who is now head of the Republican sponsored Tea Party sprout the Tea Party Express.
    Actually Duekmajian wa a very nice man. We played for several events he was guest at (tooth pick banquets that were fundraisers for Repub causes). He always took a little time to listen to the music and gasve and complimented us. He was much nicer than Jerry Brown, being professionals we’d play for anyone who would hire us for a fee. We were later asked to play for the reception for the Queen of England when she visited the Sacramento in March ’83

    Like

  37. fish Avatar
    fish

    You guys are so privileged and entitled you’re missing the entire point even when it is spoon fed to you. No matter how hard you worked doors were there for you that would not have been for a person of color or for a woman.
    You have the historical attention span of a 4 year old. Just what was your grade in SOC 322, “Groveling cuz ur Pale”?
    You know Ben most the things that you listed as attributes in an earlier post…you can undo them all….okay not the white part, that will be your cross to bear.
    Go ahead make it all equal!

    Like

  38. fish Avatar
    fish

    Boy Gregory do I know a lot about that race. I played music for the wedding of Sal Russo who took over Dukes campaign late in the race when he was loosing. always called Sal the man who made me governor. I recall a conversation I overheard with Sal at the wedding, which was two weeks after the election when he explained the strategy he employed which was to spend millions to defeat a gun control Proposition which was going to lose anyway because the voters that would oppose the measure would likely not vote for an African American on the same ballot. “Duke” then won virtually the tightest race in California history. I heard this with my own ears directly from the source (Russo) Who is now head of the Republican sponsored Tea Party sprout the Tea Party Express.
    How can you act so shocked at these political tactics in this post while boldly proclaiming your cynicism earlier by offering the following in regards to the political process; “My view is cynical and I see little hope it will change in my lifetime and will challenge anyone who claims otherwise.”
    Bold words from a moderately confused man!

    Like

  39. Paul Emery Avatar

    Fish
    That was many years ago when I was actually optimistic about the role and future of government. It was experiences like that that fed and nurtured my cynicism.

    Like

  40. fish Avatar
    fish

    That was many years ago when I was actually optimistic about the role and future of government.
    So why do you let a relative waste his time on something as ridiculous and pointless as running for congress?

    Like

  41. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Well, Paul is a thoughtful man who has been around the block. He has come to the conclusions that many of us here share..er…speaking solely for myself…I share. Paul’s journey has taken him from optimistic to less than optimistic about the role and future of government. We all come from someplace and sometimes our paths cross and sometimes they never cross but sometimes we end up at the same place. Life’s lessons have spawned many antidotes, empirical observations, and turning points, be they gradual or sudden.
    My comments to Brother Ben are simple. Yes, Ben, there exists racism, discrimination, and prejudice. Everywhere. A given. Now, how long before you and others of the same thought process start kicking it into gear and stop being some kind of racial expert and apologetic for those that have suffered injustices. Like a sweet old lady who makes excuses for her 54 year old son that has never held a job for long and can’t be disturbed from his slumber until one in the afternoon. At what point do we stop looking backwards and start walking forward? At what point to we stop yearning for the evasive perfect world and accept today as a starting point? “They” say if you have one foot in yesterday and one foot in tomorrow, you end up pissing all over yourself.
    Brother Ben, when a man wakes up and finds himself neck deep in quicksand, the first thing he asks himself is “how do I get out of here”‘ not “how did I get here.” There be plenty of time for that later.
    Yes Ben, being black in America is being born with 2 strikes against ya. I will say that to extend the olive branch. Yes, in 2013 a black kid faces many obstacles. So did Abe Lincoln the homely man from the log cabin. But, Abe was white, curse him.
    The War Between the States is over. This ain’t the Civil Rights Movement no more. We have a black President and the previous administration had a black Secretary of State and a black female National Security Adviser. The Republicans elected the first 19 black Senators starting in the late 1800’s. The Dems elected (not appointed) their first black Senator in 1999 or somewhere very close to that date. Big deal. That was then, this is now.
    Being black in America generally means being raised in a single parent household, generally. Being black in America in 2013 generally means you have to overcome more obstacles. Being progressive in 2013 means you discount that the American people elected a Black President not once, but twice. And we have come a long way.
    Check the calendar. Life ain’t easy and coddling those who have faced injustices with excuses only retards the process of being accountable for one’s own actions. The formerly down trodden may not be responsible nor did they ask to be born. But they, like me and you, are now accountable for one’s own actions, as it damn well should be.

    Like

  42. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    GG wrote: “If KNCO would like to interview someone to balance out a local ed industry spokesman, I’d be happy to beat the bushes for an expert on the other side.”
    I’ll look into it. Thanks for your reply.
    Michael A.

    Like

  43. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Hey BenE, why do you think the answer t all your issues is the taking from those that do and goving to those that don’t? I thought you libs were all about fairness.

    Like

  44. Paul Emery Avatar

    Todd
    Where does the money come from to subsidize the LaMalfa family?

    Like

  45. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    PaulE where does the money come from to subsidize KVMR? After all, the “news” programs are under the First Amendment aren’t they?

    Like

  46. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Bill, 06 August 2013 at 08:27 PM
    At this point in the conversation it is no longer about anyone other than American white males.
    From the first white settlers in 1600’s to 1970’s virtually all state and federal laws that shape the culture, society, and economy were created with exclusive white male perception. So naturally the laws and policies were structured towards white males. Nothing more nothing less.
    This doesn’t mean all white males are racist bigots it means from their perception of the world they were acting in their own and their constituents best interests. Until 1920 women didn’t have universal voting rights. Until 1960 people of color didn’t have universal access to voting rights. So they were legislating and governing towards the interests of the majority of the electorate not the majority of the people.
    No guilt is necessary but recognition is very necessary if we are going to be able to even attempt at being a nation that has a government by the consent of the governed. Affirmative action is a horrible reverse racist policy but the only other option is changing the minds and actions of an entire nations mentality. That takes time and until that happens things like the very flawed policy of affirmative action, title IX, and others that try to force inclusion in the private and public sectors. Although flawed and I have some serious disagreements I support these policies overall because it is a very slow learning curve in constant motion.

    Like

  47. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Todd,
    “Hey BenE, why do you think the answer t all your issues is the taking from those that do and goving to those that don’t? I thought you libs were all about fairness.”
    Its about correcting the system to be a more equitable instead of being totally lopsided to a specific segment of the population.
    Here is a way to look at so you might understand.
    I bet you complain and don’t like all black colleges and things like black miss america contests. I know my republican relatives don’t like these ideas at all. They make the claim “If we had all white colleges or contests we would be called racists”, which is true. Does that sound about right to you? The reason black colleges and contests were created because those things weren’t accessible to the black population at the time. So if black people couldn’t attend college and get that experience and degree they could not enter into the higher income professions. Just one example of how generational wealth leads to access and opportunity. Just a little fact. That Socialist program called the GI Bill gave millions of poor white men the opportunity to be the first to attend college in their family.
    Ultimately when boiled down racism is really class warfare as are so many other issues.
    I refer you to my comment to Bill Tozer at 12:18.

    Like

  48. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Todd,
    “PaulE where does the money come from to subsidize KVMR? After all, the “news” programs are under the First Amendment aren’t they?”
    I don’t think KVMR makes their living railing against welfare recipients and big government subsides.
    It is the hypocrisy and the immorality of cutting food stamps while doling out corporate welfare.

    Like

  49. Gregory Avatar

    “I recall a conversation I overheard with Sal at the wedding, which was two weeks after the election when he explained the strategy he employed which was to spend millions to defeat a gun control Proposition which was going to lose anyway because the voters that would oppose the measure would likely not vote for an African American on the same ballot. “Duke” then won virtually the tightest race in California history.” -Paul
    Paul, it was a little less cynical than that; the folks who came out to vote against Prop 15 were very likely to vote against one of its early and enthusiastic supporters. Mayor Bradley (a breath of fresh air after Mayor Sam Yorty), a big booster of Handgun Control, Inc (later the Brady Center), was an early endorser of the gun control proposition Prop 15 of 1982, a statewide handgun freeze, banning the sales of new handguns; the only legal handguns would be the ones registered under the proposition. From the initial PR it had a 2/3 support in public opinion polls, but as the people learned more and more about it, the people got more and more pissed off.
    Perhaps the biggest problem was the fatal flaw in every constitutional US gun registration law… no one forbidden to own firearms, like the insane, or felons, could be charged for violating the registration requirement. The new law, like every registration law that can pass SCOTUS review would and could only be used against folks who had never been found guilty of a serious crime or mentally ill.
    The proposition, originally supported about 2 to 1 in informal polls, went down in flames, about 2:1 in the other direction, and Tom Bradley, originally favored, rode the Proposition to a squeaker of a loss to a relative unknown. Deuk was a decent governor and when Bradley ran against Deuk in ’86, Bradley got pwned, 61 to 37.

    Like

  50. George Rebane Avatar

    From BenE’s 1234pm – “It is the hypocrisy and the immorality of cutting food stamps while doling out corporate welfare.” I just want to point out the futility of reasoned dialogue here. There is no intention by any Republican to “cut food stamps”, only to make them available through dedicated legislation, not hidden in something called the ‘Farm Bill’ when 80% of its funding goes for food stamps. But this notion is invisible to progressives, similar to how the stone age Papua-New Guinea natives could not see across a narrow river that defined the edge of their universe. It’s a mental thing.

    Like

Leave a comment