Rebane's Ruminations
July 2013
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George Rebane

The memory of Treyvon Martin has now been honored by everyone from the President to the punks smashing windows and setting fires to demonstrate their outrage at the acquittal of George Zimmerman and the nation’s legal system.  In doing the latter I’m tempted to join them.

TrayvonMartinAccording to our legal system as exercised in Sanford, the evidence showed that Martin was a young thug trying to bash the brains out of the man who finally shot him.  Since the shooting, both the press and the police have done their best to hide Martin’s past because he was a black minor.  Well, more than a minor.  As Zimmerman’s prosecutors characterized him, that evening Martin was an ‘apprehensive child’ trying to reach safety and the warmth of his home and family while suffering a ‘child’s worst fears’ by being ‘stalked in the night’.

Since then, a bit more has come out on the background of that child pictured nearby.  The Miami-Dade police and school authorities had to jump through hoops not to arrest the young man for burglary and possession of stolen goods.  And there’s even more coming out that you will not see in the lamestream which has spent the last year calling for Zimmerman’s head, but this blog with appropriate links is as good a place to start as any. 

So the Sanford court delivered its justice, and found that even lying down, with his head being pounded into a concrete sidewalk,  Zimmerman had every right to ‘stand’ his ground, draw his weapon, and kill Martin in order to save his own life.  But in our system of jurisprudence, one that used to eschew double jeopardy, this is not the end of it.  As we discovered in the OJ Simpson case, being acquitted of murder does not end your jeopardy.  You can be re-indicted on civil charges, just as if you had committed the act of which you were found innocent, and then be adjudicated into financial oblivion.

AntonioSantiagoBut wait, there’s more.  With the Zimmerman case we have launched into the era of triple jeopardy.  Those ever stalwart men of God and minders of the plantation, the Revs Jackson and Sharpton, have joined with the NAACP to plan a very nasty future for George Zimmerman.  First they convince Holder’s DOJ to file criminal charges against Zimmerman for violating (seat belts please) Martin’s civil rights.  And then, whether that works or not, they will go after him in a civil lawsuit a la Simpson.  And on top of that, thanks to the lamestream’s ample coverage of the acquittal and follow-on demonstrations of rage, Zimmerman will wear a bullseye on his back for a very long time.

In the meantime, Holder is pandering to the NAACP, promising to review the nation’s stand-your-ground laws as being the newly discovered basis for the (diminishing) gun violence in the land.  Oh yes, speaking of race, did anyone give a big rat’s ass for the ongoing stream of black-on-black murders in Chicago (46 blacks killed there during the trial) and other big cities in this interval.  Or did you notice all the demonstrations against the two Georgia black teen-agers who killed a baby by shooting him in the face and wounding his mother during a robbery?  Who honored the memory of 13-month-old Antonio Santiago?

I don’t think we have to look too deeply through the progressive smoke screen to see real racism practiced daily in America.

[21jul13 update – corrected]  As President Obama continues to fan the Zimmerman trial flames evident in dozens of cities across the nation, I definitely feel that he has a deeper agenda for which the trial’s verdict can serve as fuel.  Of the many statements in his “deeply personal” speech about the event that could have used a big dose of silence, he stated, “… if Trayvon Martin was of age and armed, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk?  And do we actually think that he would have been justified in shooting Mr. Zimmerman who had followed him in a car because he felt threatened?  And if the answer to that question is at least ambiguous, then it seems to me that we might want to examine those kinds of laws.”

That he introduced the potential justification of an armed Martin shooting Zimmerman for no more than following him in a neighborhood where Zimmerman was volunteering as a member of the neighborhood watch, raises more than eyebrows.   Asking us to consider the two acts as somehow being equivalent or having an “ambiguous” answer throws the entire issue of stand your ground into a cocked hat, and goes on to support the nationwide protests already rejecting the Zimmerman verdict and looking for all manner of hypotheticals to continue focusing on race and civil rights violations as being the cause of Martin’s being shot that now requires additional judicial action.

The immediate beneficiaries of the President’s hypothetical are the attorneys for Dunn, who from his car gunned down a black teenager in another car, an unarmed teenager who had no physical contact with Dunn or made no move to threaten him (here).  Dunn’s defense before the President’s remarks was tenuous if it existed at all.  After that presidential demagoguery I can see Dunn’s attorneys dropping to their knees, raising their hands in gratitude, and shouting ‘Thank you, thank you Lord!!’

The facts of the matter, that no one wants to address about Zimmerman’s actions or that of Jesse Jackson’s equivalent assessment, are that according to DoJ statistics –
•    Blacks make up 13% of the population,
•    Since 1975 blacks have committed more than half of ALL the nation’s murders;
•    And 93% of murdered blacks were killed by blacks.

Now I know that progressives have had more than a little trouble reasoning, especially when it involves elements of numeracy – that has been academically corroborated (more here and here).  I challenge a liberal to draw the Venn diagram for that situation without first going back to ding-dong school.  Of course a few rightwingers may also struggle 😉  But if you brought the teachings of the good Reverend Bayes to bear on these statistics, then it becomes apparent that beating the drums on the Zimmerman case is an ongoing smokescreen raised by the liberal elites to hide their massive failures in social policies (economic and educational) that for the last 40 years have been promoted to help the black population.  Their effect has been exactly the opposite, beginning with the destruction of the strong black family ethic in the 1960s.

Now we holler and wail about ‘stereotyping’ and the injustice it causes.  It does no such thing when considered on an individual decision level.  As I have attempted to illuminate in these pages, stereotyping (intuiting the correct Bayesian conditional posterior probability) is one of the most powerful survival mechanisms that humans and ALL critters have evolved over the eons.  What we pejoratively label as stereotyping is fundamental to Bayesian decision making, which is demonstrably the most powerful and effective approach to dealing with problems in an uncertain environment.  And without going into the numerical weeds that surround the above quoted statistics, those numbers themselves advise an extra dose of caution when encountering a young black male on a lonely dark street, whether he be an opportunistic thug or a young neurosurgeon like Dr Ben Carson (by his own report).

Were you asked to bet you assets on the intentions of such a black man, you would wisely vote with the Rev Jesse Jackson.  Were you instead asked to bet your ass, you would definitely make a run for it before seeking any more edifying information.  And starting with the numbers, that sad state of affairs is what underlies the entire problem of racist stereotyping.  The real crime is that the national black leadership refuses to address the existential problem of the behavior of young black men staring them in the face for the last several decades.   (I was heartened to again hear Jason Riley of WSJ eloquently agree with these conclusions.)

[26jul13 update]  Bill Whittle of PJMedia presents an excellent summary of the Trayvon Martin case in this video, and contrasts it with the reprehensible ‘coverage’ given in the lamestream.

Posted in , , ,

211 responses to ““… honor the memory of Treyvon Martin.” (updated 26jul13)”

  1. fish Avatar
    fish

    Emery I hope you aren’t allowed outside without a minder.

    Like

  2. Gregory Avatar

    “Zimmerman pursued Martin after being told not to, that is all we need to know.”
    That didn’t happen, Ben. He was told by a dispatcher that they didn’t need him to follow the guy.
    “Ben, you don’t need to shovel the horse manure right now” doesn’t mean “Ben, don’t shovel” the stuff now unless it’s your boss and they are given to understatement. Guess what? The dispatcher wasn’t Zimmerman’s boss.
    Then there’s the fact that the judge barred evidence the defense wanted to introduce including Martin’s suspensions, tattoos and history of fighting. Probably rightly so for a criminal trial, but if there’s a civil trial brought against Zimmerman expect Martin’s halo to tarnish.
    At the time of the incident Martin was apparently was under suspension for an empty drug baggie. the previous suspension a couple of months earlier was for graffiti; it was a search for the marker a video camera caught him using on a school door that led to the jewelry and the big screwdriver believed to be a burglary tool. They didn’t call the cops to investigate and instead, just swept it under the rug.
    I guess they didn’t want the bad press of a home near the school being burglarized by a student.

    Like

  3. Russ Steele Avatar

    Ben Emory@10:14AM
    Here is some insight from the Legal Insurrection the pursue issue:
    There are many lessons to be learned from the media miscoverage of the George Zimmerman shooting of Trayvon Martin.
    We’ve dealt repeatedly with the false “hoodie” and racial narratives, the ludicrous audio and video analyses, and the misunderstanding of the role Stand Your Ground played [actually, did not play] in the case.
    We’ve seen post-trial articles about how the prosecution failed to “humanize” Trayvon, without addressing that the prosecution deliberately didn’t go there because it would have brought into evidence Trayvon’s history of fighting, drug use and illegal weapons possession. Rachel Jeantel’s post-trial interview on CNN also raised the possibility that the fight was started by Trayvon out of homophobic fear that Zimmerman was a sexual predator.
    In this sea of media malpractice, one enduring fabrication lives on despite conclusive trial testimony, the concept that Zimmerman was ordered, instructed, or told not to get out of his car by the 911 operator.

    000
    There is a second and implicit part of the myth, namely that Zimmerman was told not to follow Martin (in addition to being told not to get out of his car).  Jonathan Capehart, in the column noted above, correctly debunked that myth, Five myths about the killing of Trayvon Martin:
    “Are you following him?” the operator for the Sanford police’s non-emergency line asks Zimmerman. “Yeah,” he says. The dispatcher on the phone tells him: “We don’t need you to do that.”
    Who the aggressor was that fateful night is the central — and most unanswerable — question of the case. Those who fault Zimmerman have latched on to this back-and-forth with Sean Noffke, the operator, as proof that Zimmerman defied a direct police order.
    Not so. Noffke testified on the first day of the jury trial that it is dispatchers’ policy not to give orders to callers. “We’re directly liable if we give a direct order,” he explained. “We always try to give general basic . . . not commands, just suggestions.” So, “We don’t need you to do that” is different than a more direct “Don’t do that.”
    Under cross-examination, Noffke added more context to his “suggestion” when asked whether his requests for updates on what Martin was doing encouraged Zimmerman to follow the unarmed 17-year-old. “It’s best to avoid any kind of confrontation, to just get away from the situation,” Noffke said.
    If the media refuses to correct the obvious factual inaccuracy that Zimmerman was told not to get out of his car, it seems hopeless to get the media to correct this other part of the myth.  Capehart made a good attempt at it, as have others, to no avail..
    The myth will survive because it is part of the background narrative, an assumption upon which arguments implicitly rest.

    Ben, you are just promoting a myth promoted by the MSM, it would be nice if you did some of your own thinking.

    Like

  4. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Greg,
    Dispatcher- Are You Following Him?
    Zimmerman- Yeah
    Dispatcher- OK, We Don’t Need You To Do That
    George Zimmerman continued to follow him. Prior to Stand Your Ground he couldn’t have used self defense because he pursued Martin but after Stand Your Ground he legally can follow cause a fight and then use self defense as justification for deadly force. There is no arguing these facts but I guess once again you know more than a sitting Florida State Senator, former Florida prosecutor who ran for Florida Attorney General. This doesn’t mean he would have been found guilty but it means he couldn’t have used self defense.
    Stand Your Ground and the Zimmerman Verdict
    http://www.dangelber.com/blog/view_blog.php?ID=268

    Like

  5. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 1124am – Thanks for the link Ben, it sure makes the case for SYG being enacted into law in Florida and other states. Prior to SYG, if you made the wrong decision (or didn’t see it, or think of it, or …) and didn’t avail yourself to a possible escape, then the post hoc argument would have been that if you found yourself being beaten senseless (or worse), you would have had no subsequent justification to defend yourself through the use of force that would have caused your assailant ANY bodily harm. The law then would have prescribed your fate to the tender mercies of the assailant who was already demonstrating that he had none.
    That argument is repulsive to any free man, and most certainly still repulsive to most Americans today (including progressives AFTER they find themselves so enmeshed).

    Like

  6. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Greg,
    Yep a magic marker on a school door and an empty baggie is a sure sign of a violent person who needs to be feared. Lets not forget the speculation of a screwdriver. None of them were brought to a criminal court probably because these are pretty typical teenage offenses that are not great but nothing all that bad.
    On the other hand George Zimmerman has a criminal record and violent past that has been documented wasn’t allowed to be used. Domestic violence and charged with resisting police with violence but bargained it down to lesser charges if he went to alcohol treatment program.
    Here is the thing I’m not saying the verdict was necessarily wrong in accordance to the law but I am saying the law is seriously flawed to allow such a injustice to take place.
    A 17 year old who had been playing video games waiting for the NBA all star game to start just minutes before with his little step-brother went to the store unarmed to buy some candy, he never made it back home because of ingrained prejudices/ racism of a vigilante which led to a forced confrontation that didn’t need to take place.
    Lets say that 17 year old was either one of your children or my own with the exact same scenario that led the confrontation. Has justice been served in your opinion?

    Like

  7. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Russ,
    ” Noffke testified on the first day of the jury trial that it is dispatchers’ policy not to give orders to callers. “We’re directly liable if we give a direct order,” he explained. “We always try to give general basic . . . not commands, just suggestions.” So, “We don’t need you to do that” is different than a more direct “Don’t do that.” ”
    It is also the policy of National Sheriffs Associations Neighborhood Watch programs and virtually all other responsible like organizations not pursue suspects.
    “USAonWatch does not advocate watch members taking any action when observing suspicious activity in their neighborhood. Community members only serve as the extra “eyes and ears” and should report their observations of suspicious activities to their local law enforcement. Trained law enforcement should be the only ones ever to take action; citizens should never try to take action on those observations. USAonWatch encourages all watch groups to register with our national database where multiple resources are made available to assist in the training and maintaining of Neighborhood Watch groups and its members.”

    Like

  8. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    “… honor the memory of Treyvon Martin.”
    “At the age of 9, he pulled me out of a fire, went back in the house, got the phone, came back out, called 911. He saved my life.” Tracy Martin

    Like

  9. George Rebane Avatar

    I expected crickets to respond to my 1142am, and am not disappointed. When opposing SYG becomes a ludicrous argument, it’s time to move on to something else. Something like factors which were deemed irrelevant to the case as interpreted under Florida law. And we all must admit that justice and beauty share certain attributes.

    Like

  10. fish Avatar
    fish

    ……of ingrained prejudices/ racism of a vigilante which led to a forced confrontation that didn’t need to take place.
    Why do you hate Jews of Peruvian descent Ben? Why?

    Like

  11. fish Avatar
    fish

    Oh oh oh…..Here I was sure you were the crazy older brother of the other Emery…..wow….just a baby! And with political aspirations too…..!
    Shit Ben, I hate contributing to politicians but I’m going to have to send McClintock money during the next election cycle to help keep your Peruvian Hate/Anti Semitism out of congress.

    Like

  12. George Rebane Avatar

    It appears that BB4 has been airing on NCTV for a couple of weeks. The remaining schedule is an update to the BB4 post. No word yet about on line availability.

    Like

  13. Gregory Avatar

    “We Don’t Need You To Do That”
    That isn’t a command, Ben. He was free to do it, or not and I’d guess it is a CYA by the police so it is clear any following is not being done at the request of the police.
    Maybe you didn’t notice, but Zimmerman WAS just observing.
    According to TIME,
    “Zimmerman got out of his vehicle to follow Martin on foot, though a dispatcher told him that was not necessary. After that, police say it is unclear what exactly happened, but Zimmerman said he no longer saw Martin and was returning back to the vehicle when the teen approached him and they exchanged words. Martin, he said, then struck him, knocked him down and began banging his head on the ground.”
    Nothing Zimmerman did before he was attacked, and given Z’s status as a 5’7″ 200# pudgeball, I don’t see him attacking a 5’11” 160lb athlete.
    “Lets not forget the speculation of a screwdriver.” A big ass screwdriver and a backpack with jewelry the kid wouldn’t explain. The jewelry was from a burglary in the neighborhood and it wasn’t returned to it’s owners until the springtime.
    Then there was the photos “on Martin’s phone that included pictures of a pile of jewelry on a bed, underage nude females, marijuana plants and a hand holding a semi-automatic pistol” that was withheld from the defense until a whistleblower in the prosecutor’s office alerted others to their existence.
    Ben, your illogic is showing. The kid was no angel and would have been arrested for possession of stolen property at a minimum if the school hadn’t swept it under the rug.

    Like

  14. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Sorry Greg,
    Your desire to make sure this kid is drug through the mud is showing. Zimmerman is to blame for a teenagers death for no particular good reason. That is the point and these f’ed up laws have now made what happened legal.

    Like

  15. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Fish,
    You might want to send it Heidi Hall some money since McClintock is now trying to steal the Merced River water rights in his new district.

    Like

  16. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George,
    Your 18 July 2013 at 11:42 AM speaks for itself. You are an authoritarian bent on making sure “good law abiding whites” citizens have the ability to fight back when the numbers drops below 50% for the first time in US history. The only problem the laws are so skewed and unjust in so many cases it is equivalent to staying silent when injustices are taking place.
    “If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.” Bishop Desmond Tutu

    Like

  17. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 609pm – Again you err grossly. I am anything but silent on this matter as my post and your presence here attest. I celebrate Zimmerman’s acquittal.

    Like

  18. fish Avatar
    fish

    You might want to send it Heidi Hall some money since McClintock is now trying to steal the Merced River water rights in his new district.
    Okay then…..good to know!

    Like

  19. fish Avatar
    fish

    You are an authoritarian bent on making sure “good law abiding whites” citizens have the ability to fight back when the numbers drops below 50% for the first time in US history.
    George why do suffer this fool?

    Like

  20. fish Avatar
    fish

    You are an authoritarian bent on making sure “good law abiding whites” citizens have the ability to fight back when the numbers drops below 50% for the first time in US history.
    Planning a race war are we then? That won’t look good on the campaign literature.

    Like

  21. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George,
    I know you are not silent on the issue. It was more meant for myself and those who oppose such laws.
    Fish,
    Your just a child trapped in an adults body, I am sorry for your constant struggle.

    Like

  22. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    This was sent to me today and this video of Wild Bill discussing liberals fits BenE to a T.
    https://youtube.googleapis.com/v/FeTCkoXslsE

    Like

  23. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    Ben posts to Greg… “Your desire to make sure this kid is drug through the mud is showing”.
    Greg provided what are called facts regarding Martin’s past. Many of these facts were withheld from the defense until a whistleblower in the prosecutor’s office alerted others and they were then disclosed.
    It seems dandy to call Zimmerman all kinds of things and post about his past, but providing the facts regarding Martin’s past is dragging him through the mud? Really?
    The point is simple; Martin’s past and Zimmerman’s past are part of this story.

    Like

  24. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Dear Conservatarians,
    Fear is a poison. It kills mammals, just like difethialone. If you lay fear traps around the baseboards, you will kill a lot of mammals. And of course, that is its designed intent.
    So gents, keep ginning up the fear game/poison. Have a lot of fun, and you are doing great. Reap your harvest of fear death, knowing that’s what you brung to the party.
    What I did instead, I brung me a slim Louisville to the party, heavily wrapped with surgical gauze at the handle, to hit some fungoes to my outfielders. They enjoyed it immensely.
    Fear vs. Fungoes. You choose.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/18/opinion/the-arms-race-at-home.html?hp&_r=0

    Like

  25. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Come in Todd, do you read me, over?
    Word on the street is that you are also a “registered Democrat Muslin.”
    Best you lay low until you get the ‘all clear.’ That means Humpty Dumpty is off limits for now.
    Do you copy, over?

    Like

  26. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    A very crucial yet overlooked piece to this puzzle is staring you’ll right in the face. Remember Harvey Milk and Mr. White? Turn the page and remember Martin and Zimmerman and Skittles. That’s right. It was Skittles that started this whole episode. Had not Martin indulged in Skittles which caused him to do some ass whoppin’ on a smaller dude, then this whole tragic chapter in a long book may have never happened. Since Twinkies were not available at the time, Skittles was a suitable substitute.
    The Dollar Tree has Skittles for a buck. I thought of buying a box the other day since my lips have never touched Skittles of Airheads, but wisdom prevailed. Now would exactly the wrong time to sit in jail doing the Twinkie Defense.

    Like

  27. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Michael Anderson | 18 July 2013 at 07:40 PM: Mr Anderson I presume. Fear is indeed an evil taskmaster who robs one of piece of mind, contentment, and can ruin a perfectly good woody.
    I know two things for sure.
    1) I have been in the backseat of a police car and have been in the front seat of a police car. Believe you me, the front seat is better.
    2) I fear dead men a lot less than I fear live ones.

    Like

  28. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Seriously Tozer? Aligning Dan White with Treyvon Martin?
    I lived in SF when JJ & DW performed their nasty business. It was not a good time.
    Your alignment is complete ridiculous and offensive. You owe Kenneth (the owner of Dan Rather’s frequency) a deep apology.
    http://foundsf.org/index.php?title=Kool-Aid_%26_Twinkies

    Like

  29. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    BTW George, dealing with the 3rd grade coding skills of the Typepad team continues to rankle.
    Are we sure that Typepad and Asiana Airlines are not in cahoots in some way? Same dysfunction, same negative results.
    The only difference is that I cannot find any videos on YouTube of Typepad representatives stabbing themselves in the heart and removing their flawed DNA from the planet.
    Just a casual observation…

    Like

  30. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    I owe a lot of people a deep deep, yes, so deeeeeep apology, but not tonight or tomorrow night. Hey Kenneth, who ever you are, stay away from Juicy Fruits. Might make you more nervous than a ho in church.
    Mr Anderson, look at the common denominators for a second. As Mr. Gregory points out, correlation does not equate to causation, or something to that effect. Yet, there are some common denominators that preceded Dan White and young Martin’s infamous demises. Food for thought as they say.

    Like

  31. fish Avatar
    fish

    Fish,
    Your just a child trapped in an adults body, I am sorry for your constant struggle.

    You wouldn’t be the first to think that……. you probably won’t be the last. Now…..why don’t you get back to “quoting deep thoughts of others” (perhaps something from Robert Paul Wolff today) and your constant moral preening.
    After all being a congressman is far easier than sustainable farming.
    You have a goodn.

    Like

  32. George Rebane Avatar

    MichaelA 1004am – Agreed, and sincere apologies for all the commenters for having to put up with such incompetence. I am in constant communication with them, sending them copies of the emails consigned to spam. But apparently in the 3rd grade they didn’t get to spam filtering yet.
    I pulled out the comments from spam and deleted the duplicates. Thanks for your patience.

    Like

  33. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Steve Enos,
    We are talking about criminal offenses not hormone driven teenage behavior. Magic marker on a locker, thug. Empty bag that allegedly had marijuana in it, out of control. A screw driver that could have been used to steal jewelry or to tighten a screw, we just report you decide.
    Those were the big offenses of Trayvon Martin, which none of them had to do with his murder. He didn’t draw on Zimmerman and pot would have made him more mellow and no screwdriver was found at the scene. He paid for the skittles and drink at 7/11 and the teller didn’t seem to think he was suspicious.
    On the other hand we have Zimmerman with a documented criminal history of violence, which wasn’t brought up during the trial either. Zimmerman instigated a fight by following Martin for doing nothing but being a black teenager and shot killed a 17 year old who did nothing but go to the store to buy some candy.
    There is a big difference between the two history’s and how they would tie into the murder. Zimmerman had no worries because he had that “Creepy Cracker Assed” Stand Your Ground law that allows open season on people of color in the South.

    Like

  34. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    I have done a blog post on this as well and have been surprised at all the phone calls and Facebook contacts. I must say though there is a controversy and my own sister is on Trayvon’s side. But my sis is an emotional woman.
    Here is my link.
    http://sierradragonsbreathe.blogspot.com/
    I am in full agreement with Mr. Enos on this topic, he has it nailed tight.
    Mr. Michael Anderson though is as usual dreaming of his trip to the perversion of Burning Man and is making no sense. His world of white guilt is foreign to me so I would suggest some psychological assistance from one of those psychologists of Nevada City. Maybe a woman psychologist since he seems unable to deal with we males on topics of things like “self defense” or “stand your ground”. Maybe he could do a joint counseling session with Ben Emery?
    So we see the daily angst of this issue on the radio and TV but why? The jury has spoken and I thought that was what we Americans all agreed was the requirement in our system. Yet the left is trucking on with pressure to the AG and even boycotting Florida! Steve Wonder won’t play in any state that has a SYG law so after his bank account shrinks to zero, maybe he will wise up.
    The issues of the day seem to be driven by the MSM desire to see Zimmerman hang and if this is pursued I believe there will be blood in the streets as the Bloods and the Crips shoot it out. Now we can see what happens when liberals like MichaelA and BenE get ahold of a city and have the reins of governance. Detroit is toast and has been run into the ground by liberals. RoboCop is needed now to stop the killings, mostly black on black, in that once great city.I suggest MichaelA and BenE load up the 5×8 rental with their beloved possessions and travel to Detroit. They could then run for council, win and then fix the place. Adios you two!! LOL!!

    Like

  35. George Rebane Avatar

    re BenE’s 815am – “There is a big difference between the two history’s(sic) and how they would tie into the murder. Zimmerman had no worries because he had that “Creepy Cracker Assed” Stand Your Ground law that allows open season on people of color in the South.”
    Wow! Determining guilt or innocence in America has not involved the histories of the people involved, but only the facts material to the alleged criminal act. Histories enter into the sentencing phase after an individual has been found guilty.
    And what evidence corroborates that SYG has given rise to “an open season on people of color in the South”?

    Like

  36. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Todd, one too many waffles this morning? What gives?
    For the record, as I’ve explained before Todd but I guess your comprehension skills are weak, I believe that Martin should have just kept walking and not challenged Zimmerman, and Zimmerman also should have minded his own business and just went home. Because these two idiots BOTH made bad decisions, one is dead and the other is going to have a messed up life for a while.
    The real problem is all the attention that is being paid to this unimportant incident. Nothing to see here, move on already. Sheesh.

    Like

  37. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George, 19 July 2013 at 08:32 AM
    “And what evidence corroborates that SYG has given rise to “an open season on people of color in the South”?”
    This case does. A man instigates a confrontation with a 17 year old by following/ stalking him and then when the man is getting his ass kicked by the 17 year old who he outweighed by 50- 70lbs the need to use deadly force. What this case has shown in states that have SYG law is you can do anything to get someone to react in a way that would allow you to perceive a threat and this threat would justify deadly force.

    Like

  38. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    re BenE’s 815am – “There is a big difference between the two history’s(sic) and how they would tie into the murder”.
    First… there was no murder. Martin was not murdered. The facts and the jury made that clear. Say murder all you want, but there was no murder.
    Second… Zimmerman did nothing illegal that night, he broke no laws. On the other hand as the facts, evidence, trial and jury showed it was Martin that attacked Zimmerman, Martin broke the law, not Zimmerman.
    Third… “stand your ground” was not part of this incident.
    Fourth… it’s clearly useless to discuss this with Ben.

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  39. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George,
    “Wow! Determining guilt or innocence in America has not involved the histories of the people involved, but only the facts material to the alleged criminal act. Histories enter into the sentencing phase after an individual has been found guilty.”
    Usually criminal records and history are used. Since Martin did not have a criminal offense record there was nothing to use but as I have posted Zimmerman did have a criminal record and violence was at the heart of it.
    I don’t think writing out “WTF” on a locker is something that could really be used to justify murder or a pattern of violent threatening behavior.

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  40. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Todd,
    As much as I hate addressing you, this statement
    “I must say though there is a controversy and my own sister is on Trayvon’s side. But my sis is an emotional woman.”
    is as misogynistic as you can get. You’re a pig trying to compensate for a whole lot of shortcomings.

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  41. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Steve, 19 July 2013 at 10:34 AM
    Your wrong on three of your points. I take it you have not followed this thread because my opposition to this verdict has been it was probably correct according to the law. The laws need to be changed back to pre- Stand Your Ground (SYG). Your wrong about SYG not being used it changed the jury instructions, which is exactly why it was almost impossible to find Zimmerman guilty. I suggest you go back and read through the thread at the changing of the jury instructions. Your wrong that Martin broke the law. He felt threatened he retreated and was followed so he stood his ground. Your correct with your last point if you want to talk about the individuals not the actual laws that made this legal.
    There is a topic I do not want to discuss with you on a public forum but I will leave it at this stalking individuals to try and catch them doing something wrong is asking for trouble and a violation of their privacy.

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  42. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    As the facts showed… Martin attacked Zimmerman, not the other way around. Martin attacking Zimmerman was the crime.

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  43. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Steve,
    Just to mix up a bit, Martin allegedly attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman made sure there was no other side of his story when he put the bullet through Martins heart.

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  44. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Ben Emery, 10:50 this morning. Your response is whu you are irrelevant to anything of value. But you do crack ,e up.
    But hey BenE, you calling me a pig is too funny. Better to be a smart pig thean a worm like you.

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  45. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Steve Enos has all the facts right and I am in total agreement with his posts on this matter here. Now even he can see the lunacy of the Ben Emery. Sorry Steve, you will now be attacked for my comments. What a hoot!

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  46. Paul Emery Avatar

    RE Michael Anderson 19 July 2013 at 09:12 AM
    “BOTH made bad decisions, one is dead and the other is going to have a messed up life for a while.”
    Should be corrected to “one is dead the other will make millions off book, TV and movie deals” With a few lawsuits greasing the path. Tort reform? Not in this case on this forum.

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  47. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Here’s one more on top of the hundreds of young black children that have been killed by stupid hood rats.
    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-oakland-girl-slain-20130718,0,1559099.story?track=rss
    8 years old. I have a daughter and that’s what she looked like when she was 8. How do black parents explain this to their kids? Where’s Obongo? Where’s Sharpton? Where is the ‘national outrage’?
    Too busy ginning up hatred against law-abiding citizens and fermenting riots to be bothered with this.
    Have a nice day!

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  48. Gregory Avatar

    “Greg provided what are called facts regarding Martin’s past. Many of these facts were withheld from the defense until a whistleblower in the prosecutor’s office alerted others and they were then disclosed.”
    Thanks SE. Sad as they are, they remain the facts.
    Regarding fear, here’s a great quote. Is it racist or rational? 10 points for the first to identify the source:
    “I hate to admit it, but I have reached a stage in my life that if I am walking down a dark street late at night and I see that the person behind me is white, I subconsciously feel relieved.”
    “Just to mix up a bit, Martin allegedly attacked Zimmerman. Zimmerman made sure there was no other side of his story when he put the bullet through Martins heart.” -Ben
    There was nothing “alleged” about Zimmerman’s broken nose and the blood on the back of his head where his skull was bashed against the sidewalk.
    Has anyone else noticed Ben’s habit of making stuff up that fits his preconceptions? If Z wanted to quietly kill a black kid, why would he have called for the police beforehand? Eh, Ben?

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