Rebane's Ruminations
July 2013
S M T W T F S
 123456
78910111213
14151617181920
21222324252627
28293031  

ARCHIVES


OUR LINKS


YubaNet
White House Blog
Watts Up With That?
The Union
Sierra Thread
RL “Bob” Crabb
Barry Pruett Blog

George Rebane

The memory of Treyvon Martin has now been honored by everyone from the President to the punks smashing windows and setting fires to demonstrate their outrage at the acquittal of George Zimmerman and the nation’s legal system.  In doing the latter I’m tempted to join them.

TrayvonMartinAccording to our legal system as exercised in Sanford, the evidence showed that Martin was a young thug trying to bash the brains out of the man who finally shot him.  Since the shooting, both the press and the police have done their best to hide Martin’s past because he was a black minor.  Well, more than a minor.  As Zimmerman’s prosecutors characterized him, that evening Martin was an ‘apprehensive child’ trying to reach safety and the warmth of his home and family while suffering a ‘child’s worst fears’ by being ‘stalked in the night’.

Since then, a bit more has come out on the background of that child pictured nearby.  The Miami-Dade police and school authorities had to jump through hoops not to arrest the young man for burglary and possession of stolen goods.  And there’s even more coming out that you will not see in the lamestream which has spent the last year calling for Zimmerman’s head, but this blog with appropriate links is as good a place to start as any. 

So the Sanford court delivered its justice, and found that even lying down, with his head being pounded into a concrete sidewalk,  Zimmerman had every right to ‘stand’ his ground, draw his weapon, and kill Martin in order to save his own life.  But in our system of jurisprudence, one that used to eschew double jeopardy, this is not the end of it.  As we discovered in the OJ Simpson case, being acquitted of murder does not end your jeopardy.  You can be re-indicted on civil charges, just as if you had committed the act of which you were found innocent, and then be adjudicated into financial oblivion.

AntonioSantiagoBut wait, there’s more.  With the Zimmerman case we have launched into the era of triple jeopardy.  Those ever stalwart men of God and minders of the plantation, the Revs Jackson and Sharpton, have joined with the NAACP to plan a very nasty future for George Zimmerman.  First they convince Holder’s DOJ to file criminal charges against Zimmerman for violating (seat belts please) Martin’s civil rights.  And then, whether that works or not, they will go after him in a civil lawsuit a la Simpson.  And on top of that, thanks to the lamestream’s ample coverage of the acquittal and follow-on demonstrations of rage, Zimmerman will wear a bullseye on his back for a very long time.

In the meantime, Holder is pandering to the NAACP, promising to review the nation’s stand-your-ground laws as being the newly discovered basis for the (diminishing) gun violence in the land.  Oh yes, speaking of race, did anyone give a big rat’s ass for the ongoing stream of black-on-black murders in Chicago (46 blacks killed there during the trial) and other big cities in this interval.  Or did you notice all the demonstrations against the two Georgia black teen-agers who killed a baby by shooting him in the face and wounding his mother during a robbery?  Who honored the memory of 13-month-old Antonio Santiago?

I don’t think we have to look too deeply through the progressive smoke screen to see real racism practiced daily in America.

[21jul13 update – corrected]  As President Obama continues to fan the Zimmerman trial flames evident in dozens of cities across the nation, I definitely feel that he has a deeper agenda for which the trial’s verdict can serve as fuel.  Of the many statements in his “deeply personal” speech about the event that could have used a big dose of silence, he stated, “… if Trayvon Martin was of age and armed, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk?  And do we actually think that he would have been justified in shooting Mr. Zimmerman who had followed him in a car because he felt threatened?  And if the answer to that question is at least ambiguous, then it seems to me that we might want to examine those kinds of laws.”

That he introduced the potential justification of an armed Martin shooting Zimmerman for no more than following him in a neighborhood where Zimmerman was volunteering as a member of the neighborhood watch, raises more than eyebrows.   Asking us to consider the two acts as somehow being equivalent or having an “ambiguous” answer throws the entire issue of stand your ground into a cocked hat, and goes on to support the nationwide protests already rejecting the Zimmerman verdict and looking for all manner of hypotheticals to continue focusing on race and civil rights violations as being the cause of Martin’s being shot that now requires additional judicial action.

The immediate beneficiaries of the President’s hypothetical are the attorneys for Dunn, who from his car gunned down a black teenager in another car, an unarmed teenager who had no physical contact with Dunn or made no move to threaten him (here).  Dunn’s defense before the President’s remarks was tenuous if it existed at all.  After that presidential demagoguery I can see Dunn’s attorneys dropping to their knees, raising their hands in gratitude, and shouting ‘Thank you, thank you Lord!!’

The facts of the matter, that no one wants to address about Zimmerman’s actions or that of Jesse Jackson’s equivalent assessment, are that according to DoJ statistics –
•    Blacks make up 13% of the population,
•    Since 1975 blacks have committed more than half of ALL the nation’s murders;
•    And 93% of murdered blacks were killed by blacks.

Now I know that progressives have had more than a little trouble reasoning, especially when it involves elements of numeracy – that has been academically corroborated (more here and here).  I challenge a liberal to draw the Venn diagram for that situation without first going back to ding-dong school.  Of course a few rightwingers may also struggle 😉  But if you brought the teachings of the good Reverend Bayes to bear on these statistics, then it becomes apparent that beating the drums on the Zimmerman case is an ongoing smokescreen raised by the liberal elites to hide their massive failures in social policies (economic and educational) that for the last 40 years have been promoted to help the black population.  Their effect has been exactly the opposite, beginning with the destruction of the strong black family ethic in the 1960s.

Now we holler and wail about ‘stereotyping’ and the injustice it causes.  It does no such thing when considered on an individual decision level.  As I have attempted to illuminate in these pages, stereotyping (intuiting the correct Bayesian conditional posterior probability) is one of the most powerful survival mechanisms that humans and ALL critters have evolved over the eons.  What we pejoratively label as stereotyping is fundamental to Bayesian decision making, which is demonstrably the most powerful and effective approach to dealing with problems in an uncertain environment.  And without going into the numerical weeds that surround the above quoted statistics, those numbers themselves advise an extra dose of caution when encountering a young black male on a lonely dark street, whether he be an opportunistic thug or a young neurosurgeon like Dr Ben Carson (by his own report).

Were you asked to bet you assets on the intentions of such a black man, you would wisely vote with the Rev Jesse Jackson.  Were you instead asked to bet your ass, you would definitely make a run for it before seeking any more edifying information.  And starting with the numbers, that sad state of affairs is what underlies the entire problem of racist stereotyping.  The real crime is that the national black leadership refuses to address the existential problem of the behavior of young black men staring them in the face for the last several decades.   (I was heartened to again hear Jason Riley of WSJ eloquently agree with these conclusions.)

[26jul13 update]  Bill Whittle of PJMedia presents an excellent summary of the Trayvon Martin case in this video, and contrasts it with the reprehensible ‘coverage’ given in the lamestream.

Posted in , , ,

211 responses to ““… honor the memory of Treyvon Martin.” (updated 26jul13)”

  1. fish Avatar
    fish

    Remember George…none of this would be happening if not for our white privelege witchcraft.

    Like

  2. Paul Emery Avatar

    So if you get in a fight with someone and they are beating the crap our of you you have a right to fire away if you have a gun and you feel you’re life is in danger. Do you honestly think that Martin would have been a white kid with a Dolphins cap (bill in front) the result would have been the same.
    I agree with the verdict by the way. It’s the law I have a problem with.
    The feds (Holder) won’t have a thing to do with pushing this further. You know that so why the fuss?

    Like

  3. fish Avatar
    fish

    Do you honestly think that Martin would have been a white kid with a Dolphins cap (bill in front) the result would have been the same.
    Quite likely……minus all the hand wringing and political posturing.

    Like

  4. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Interesting choice of words, Paul. Let’s change it to – ‘some one starts a fist fight with you and they are beating the crap out of you’. Makes a big difference.
    As far as if Martin had been a white kid… Do you mean the same exact person with the same attitudes, but white skin or if it was a white teenager walking down the road when Zim came upon him? As long as we’re going to play what if, how about it was a white teenager walking in the neighborhood and a “boy” (new acceptable liberal term for a teenage black) just leaned out the window and shot the white teenager dead while calling him a ‘cracka’ and sent a video to his friends? Do you honestly think the president (who is a black caucasian) would even know or care? How about you, Paul? Would this event send the white folks in America into a frenzy and start riots? Get real – a stupid kid with a bad attitude and a hot temper started beating on some one who had a gun. Sad ending. Everything else is just blah blah blah.

    Like

  5. Paul Emery Avatar

    Does anyone have a speculation as to why Martin supposedly started a fight with Zimmerman in the first place?

    Like

  6. Gregory Avatar

    “So if you get in a fight with someone and they are beating the crap our of you you have a right to fire away if you have a gun and you feel you’re life is in danger.” -Paul
    That has always been the law in every state in the US, Paul, even in California. This also isn’t “stand your ground”, as if you are being sat upon and pummeled with fists and head slammed onto the edge of the sidewalk, you couldn’t retreat even if you wanted to.

    Like

  7. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    “Does anyone have a speculation as to why Martin supposedly started a fight with Zimmerman in the first place? ” Supposedly? You were there?
    It actually doesn’t matter. Put yourself in Martin’s place. Go on – try. He had a phone and was using it.
    A ‘creepy ass cracka’ was following him. I would just call the police. But he didn’t. He was going ‘take care’ of this ‘creepy ass cracka’ himself. Kinda didn’t work out like this tough guy thought it would. Oops.
    talking to some one –

    Like

  8. Gregory Avatar

    Have y’all noticed the wrongful termination lawsuit filed by the whistleblower (named Kruidbos) formerly in the prosecutor’s office who disclosed the contents of Martin’s phone that was withheld from Zimmerman’s legal team? It was barred from the trial by the prosecution-friendly judge but has been out there:
    “Trial law requires prosecutors to share evidence with defense attorneys, especially if it helps exonerate defendants. The requirement is known as the Brady disclosure.
    Kruidbos testified last month in a pre-trial hearing that he found photos on Martin’s phone that included pictures of a pile of jewelry on a bed, underage nude females, marijuana plants and a hand holding a semi-automatic pistol.”
    The jury also didn’t get told young Martin was under suspension from school, apparently for criminal activity handled administratively by the school, for the second time in six months.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/16/us-usa-florida-shooting-lawsuit-idUSBRE96F1EL20130716
    Zimmerman was a wannabe hero and cop, Martin was a wannabe thug-in-training. I’d prefer not being around either but at least Zimmerman would just be a neighborhood pest, not a criminal.

    Like

  9. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Missed the last line on edit. sorry. Dele

    Like

  10. Gregory Avatar

    “So if you get in a fight with someone and they are beating the crap our of you you have a right to fire away if you have a gun and you feel you’re life is in danger.” -Paul
    A part I forgot to mention… if you’re the one who started the fight in the first place, no. But the jury all thought Martin started the fight.

    Like

  11. Paul Emery Avatar

    Whats to stop someone from luring someone into a fight to create a situation where they appear to be losing so they could blow them away?

    Like

  12. fish Avatar
    fish

    Whats to stop someone from luring someone into a fight to create a situation where they appear to be losing so they could blow them away?
    There was this incident in Florida……

    Like

  13. Gregory Avatar

    Maybe Zimmerman’s nose started the fight by smashing into Martin’s fist?
    Paul, I think murderers usually try to get away with it, but without getting pummeled first. Letting your prey, stronger and taller, straddle you, hitting you about your head with fist and the edge of a sidewalk would be a novel (not to mention idiotic) way to be able to shoot them legally.

    Like

  14. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Paul, you are a real treat. You just keep fabricating ‘what if’ scenarios that have little or no bearing on the subject. Is reality a difficult place for you to exist in?

    Like

  15. Paul Emery Avatar

    I was a Golden Gloves boxer in my teen hood and a common boxing tactic was to feint being hurt to deliver a knockout punch. It’s the old “hit me first” ploy schoolyard tactic. I was just wondering.

    Like

  16. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    George asked… “Who honored the memory of 13-month-old Antonio Santiago?”… good question, but sadley we know what the answer is.
    Where were the demonstrations, riots and distruction of public and private property and attacks on bystanders over the two Georgia black teen-agers who during a robbery shot baby Antinoin the face, killing him and wounding his mother? Were is Attorney General Eric Holder on this one?
    Consider the points raised by Ted Nugent:
    So this guy’s neighborhood has been burglarized off and on and the residents are very concerned for their safety and well-being. Neighbors agree to upkick their vigilance and overall level of awareness to watch out for each other and keep an eye out for suspicious individuals and behavior. It could be considered by an official designation such as “Neighborhood Watch”, but officially labeled or not, it is the purest form of Americans watching out for each other and being good neighbors. So far so good.
    So George Zimmerman sees what he believes is a suspicious individual in suspicious circumstances, and intelligently and responsibly pays attention and calls 9-1-1 to report what he sees to the officials. This gesture is proof positive he was not looking to do anyone harm or break any laws, but rather perform the fundamental responsibility of a neighbor who cares.
    Doing nothing illegal or improper, he follows the individual while answering all the questions from the 9-1-1 operator to the best of his ability, keeping an eye on the individual so the authorities can hopefully intercept and determine exactly what is going on.
    For reasons unknown, though I will comment on momentarily, after expressing racism and hostility on the phone to a friend in response to being followed, the suspect now changes course and turns towards George and immediately initiates a hostile verbal confrontation that quickly escalate to a violent physical assault.
    Within seconds, the suspect has overwhelmed George, has gained the advantage on top, pinning George to the ground, and further escalates the assault to deadly force by smashing George’s face, breaking his nose, and violently slamming his skull onto the concrete with all his youthful athleticism.
    George screams frantically for help as Trayvon Martin pummels his face and head furiously, inflicting damaging and potentially life threatening wounds.
    Fearing for his life and about to lose consciousness at the hands of an enraged, violent attacker, George Zimmerman does what anyone who wishes to live would do, and he reaches for his concealed handgun, firing a single shot to neutralize the deadly force being wreaked upon him.
    This represents the purest form of self-defense there is. It is exactly why people who believe in good over evil carry a gun to protect themselves from the well documented violence that plagues our country, in order to save our lives from a life threatening attack. Period.
    Based on all evidence available to them, the professional law enforcement officers did not hold George Zimmerman on charges later that night. They saw it for what it was: cut and dried self-defense.
    And so it was for a few weeks until the race-baiting industry saw an opportunity to further the racist careers of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, the Black Panthers. President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder, et al, who then swept down on the Florida community refusing to admit that the 17-year-old dope smoking, racist gangsta wannabe Trayvon Martin was at all responsible for his bad decisions and standard modus operendi of always taking the violent route.
    With an obvious racist chip on his shoulder, referencing the neighborhood watch guy as a “creepy ass cracker” to his fellow racist female friend who admitted under oath that that is how non-blacks are referred to normally in their circles, Trayvon had no reason not to attack, because it was the standard thug thing to do. See Chicago any day of the week.
    With nearly 700 examples of this truism played out in Chicago in 2012 alone, no one can possibly dispute the recent surge in black racism increasing throughout Barack Obama?s presidency. To attempt to claim otherwise is a laughable lie.
    The jury got it right, and non-racist America rejoices that there is still common sense, honesty and decency aware of identifying justice in this country. America also believes that the entire prosecutorial team should be ashamed of themselves and disbarred for ignoring the obvious and kowtowing to the pure racism that forced the politically correct lie that only black lives killed by non-blacks matter, which is why there are no headlines, no protests, no prosecutions and no Barak Obama or Eric Holder meddling in the nonstop black-on-black slaughter in their gun-free zone of Chicago.
    Martin Luther King Jr. is rolling over in his grave that he sacrificed his life for the cause of judging people by the content of their character instead of the color of their skin, as so many of his own race carry in in self-destructive behavior while professional race mongers blame everything on racism.
    It is painful and heartbreaking to say and write this, but horrifically it is true. Blacks kill more blacks in a weekend in Chicago than the evil, vile Ku Klux Klan idiots did in 50 years. Truly earth shattering insane. And not a peep from Obama or Holder. Tragic.
    The only racism on that night was perpetrated by Trayvon Martin, and everybody knows it.
    Here’s the lesson from all this, America: Teach your children to not attack people for no good reason whatsoever. Conduct yourself in a responsible, civil manner, and everything will be just fine. Try to kill someone and that someone just may be exercising his or her Second Amendment rights and you could get shot. It’s called self-defense, and it is the oldest, strongest and most righteous instinct and God-given
    right known to man.

    Like

  17. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    So you won the Golden Gloves by lying on the mat and having the opponent slam your head and beat the snot out of you? Just asking, Paul.

    Like

  18. Paul Emery Avatar

    No. I used the ol Jack Dempsey ploy of taking the jab to land the left hook to the gut followed by an overhand right to the chin. The great Archie Moore used to let his opponent hit him to build up his confidence so he could take advantage of obvious openings.

    Like

  19. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    That’s wonderful, Paul. I’m sure that Zimmerman lay down on the sidewalk to let his opponent start wailing on him so as to build up his confidence in order for George to get an opening so that he could then pull out his gun and shoot him. That’s probably what happened.

    Like

  20. fish Avatar
    fish

    No. I used the ol Jack Dempsey ploy of taking the jab to land the left hook to the gut followed by an overhand right to the chin. The great Archie Moore used to let his opponent hit him to build up his confidence so he could take advantage of obvious openings.
    Probably would have been easier to use a gun Paul.

    Like

  21. George Rebane Avatar

    And here I thought all you fine intellects would take apart the societal halo effect that this trial is wreaking upon the nation, instead of retrying Zimmerman one more time here on RR. Silly me.

    Like

  22. L Avatar
    L

    Yeah, Paul. Trayvon felt he had been “dissed” by some “cracka” following him and decided to teach George a lesson from his own background.
    Seriously, do any of the usual suspects here actually think a man with a gun would start a fistfight with a taller, younger black youth. No, you would keep a distance and if approached, pull the gun and say “put up your hands, the cops will be here in a minute.”
    Any other questions, fools?

    Like

  23. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    the bottom line here is that there were no witnesses… no one who actually saw what happened.. especially anyone in here.. so any speculation as to who was defending themselves from whom, is just that. speculation. One person’s word against another… only one of them is dead.. so we never got to hear their version of the events, and they are not here to defend the slander.. the perfect target.. So really this discussion is about guns and gun usage.. and falls directly along partisan lines.. like everything else… the truth be damned. Who cares who threatened who and in what order..the right to carry a concealed weapon and randomly use it as the carrier sees fit was upheld.. A victory for the right. guns don’t kill people, people do.

    Like

  24. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Yeah, I’m not much interested in the “societal halo effect” in this discussion/rant-fest because I think it mostly doesn’t exist outside of the echo chambers of the MSM.
    Zimmerman and Martin are two people who for a variety of reasons are stunted human beings. Martin’s stunting led to his demise (which would probably have happened eventually, even w/o Zimmerman–interesting Ted Nugent cite on Earl’s blog by Steve Enos); Zimmerman’s stunting is a bit more complex, ego-driven and pathetic.
    George, I’m a bit surprised that you are playing into all the sound and fury. How about an article instead on stupid aircraft carriers and how if we got rid of them we could probably provide free health care to every human being on the entire planet?
    http://exiledonline.com/the-war-nerd-this-is-how-the-carriers-will-die/

    Like

  25. George Rebane Avatar

    MichaelA 918pm – I’m sorry Michael, but you seem to have missed quite a bit of news about the societal halo effect. It exists very much outside the “echo chambers of the MSM”. There are people demonstrating in the streets, smashing store windows, NAACP petitioning the DOJ to indict Zimmerman on criminal civil rights charges, Holder making speeches about ‘stand your ground’, and the President honoring Martin. Quite a bit is happening that is the real outcome of the trial. Sorry you have missed it.

    Like

  26. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    I didn’t miss it, I ignored it. It was just another example of Idiot America, ginning up stupidity on as many avenues as possible. But actually not very much stupid once the final harvest was brought in…seriously, a few broken windows in Oakland? Hardly blood running in the streets. And the NAACP/Holder/Obama baloney will be yesterday’s lettuce pretty much by tomorrow.
    George, you need to get out more. My prescription for you would be more baseball, less Fox News. There’s an American Legion tournament starting up next week at NU, with some big boys wielding some heavy bats. No windows (or Windows) involved whatsoever. Plus, sunshine!

    Like

  27. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Interesting that the “Stand Your Ground” law was not used by the defense. Not necessary. If Zimmerman thought within himself that great bodily injury to himself was about to happen (or happening), then that’s all she wrote. Simple self defense.
    Despite what all the pundits say, all we are left is Zimmerman’s story. No witnesses, just people who heard bits and pieces in the dark and a guy who saw part of the struggle, but he really could not make out features. So, its Zimmerman’s word and that is all we got. The defense got the gun expert to say that Martin’s wounds were consistent with somebody on top. The defense showed Zimmerman’s bloody skull pics at every opportunity.
    There won’t be triple jeopardy. For the Feds to prosecute on the grounds of Martin’s civil rights, they must prove that a hate crime or radical motive was the key factor. The FBI has spent months upon months interviewing anybody and everybody that has known Zimmerman and no one is saying that he has any record or history of being a racist. His record on that is clean as a whistle. And if the full force of the United States Justice Department can’t find a shred of evidence that Zimmerman has a racist history, then that’s all she wrote again.
    About the only racial slurs and racism I heard was coming from the Main Stream Media. Calling Zimmerman a half Hispanic is pretty low. Surprised the Hispanic community is not upset that Zimmerman referred to as half white or half Latino. Half?? Its ok for the President or anybody to call himself half this or half that, but not for outsiders. Don’t call my piece of junk car a piece of junk.
    Guess Zimmerman is not really a Latino. Not really. Just sort of a mixed race dude, but he is really white. Shame on the press.

    Like

  28. fish Avatar
    fish

    Guess Zimmerman is not really a Latino. Not really. Just sort of a mixed race dude, but he is really white. Shame on the press.
    Bill…under the current standard rule set of government and media manipulation (latest revision 2011…..oddly enough it’s version release is synchronized with the release of the NFPA codes….Hmmmm) Zimmerman gets to be a Hispanic if, and only if he is injured or killed by someone clearly of European descent (any European will do…German is the standard however). Now, if the individual interacting with Zimmerman happens to be gay (homosexual for the more reactionary in our audience) there is a whole list of potential situational modifiers and exculpatory examples that need be be examined. Please consult your Desktop Book for Proper Grievance Regulation, volume IV, Chapter 6 – How to Properly Categorize the Participants section 4, item (b) Hispanic – When and Where, white and or gay and chapter 9 Jury Selection (I think you’ll find the section on who exactly is ones “peer” both enlightening and entertaining), all relevant sections plus administrative and case law interpretations in appendices.
    Additionally should you need further guidance upon who to properly focus your hate in the matter we have a hotline that you may call…..please refer to the 800 number in your handbook. That line is staffed 24 hours a day by trained personnel (ask for Eric or Al).
    Now if he is attacked by a European woman there is another set of regulations to which we refer…….

    Like

  29. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George,
    So much to comment on here it is going to be hard.
    The entire angle of your commentary is gleeful that a 17 year old who was doing nothing wrong was shot and killed by an overzealous volunteer want-a-be neighborhood watch. I don’t think you really care one way or another about Martin or Zimmerman but are gleeful because those who question the tiered American justice system are usually liberal or progressive, which are very different.
    Justice wasn’t served but what we did get was better than most countries, Zimmerman got his day in court. Although our court/ justice system is very very flawed and tiered to favor the wealthy our judicial system is what makes our country great. It is kind of like democracy very flawed but the best governing system we have come up with to date.

    Like

  30. fish Avatar
    fish

    The entire angle of your commentary is gleeful that a 17 year old who was doing nothing wrong was shot and killed by an overzealous volunteer want-a-be neighborhood watch.
    Paul you are nothing if not consistent!

    Like

  31. Gregory Avatar

    “a 17 year old who was doing nothing wrong was shot and killed by an overzealous volunteer want-a-be neighborhood watch”
    Fish, that was Ben, not Paul.
    Ben, I taught my son to understand it is wrong to beat people up. Martin was committing a felony assault and battery at the time he was shot; that isn’t “doing nothing wrong”. And while Zimmerman was arguably an overzealous wannabe cop, the jury believed that Martin started the fight, which, until the gun was deployed, was pretty one sided.
    It should also again be noted that Martin was under suspension from his high school for possessing a burglary tool (a big screwdriver) and a bunch of jewelry he claimed to be holding for a friend he wouldn’t divulge. The jewelry was stolen from a residence near his high school.

    Like

  32. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    It is obvious from the comments of the Trayvon supporters that facts do not mean anything. That is a scary thing in this land of laws. People rioting after a verdict shows me there is no way to make sense of the rioters since emotion is their mechanism to deal with a loss. Watts and South Central are a good example. Our country has become a prodoner of 10% of our population. Their actions are undermining what America is all about.

    Like

  33. fish Avatar
    fish

    You are correct Greg…..I sometimes confuse my Emerys.
    Apologies to the board.

    Like

  34. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George, part II
    The verdict given was largely due to our good friends ALEC law, Stand Your Ground (SYG). The jury instructions were very different from a decade ago which most likely would have led to the conviction of 2nd degree murder. Here are what would have been the jury instructions pre-SYG. The difference between the two laws and jury instructions is Zimmerman never has to retreat or try to avoid the conflict. It is that simple.
    “If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent
    the commission of a forcible felony.”
    http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/news/documents/2013/07/12/jury_instructions_1.pdf
    Here is what would have been read to the jury prior to the SYG law being passed.
    “The defendant cannot justify the use of force likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless he used every reasonable means within his power and consistent with his own safety to avoid the danger before resorting to that force.
    The fact that the defendant was wrongfully attacked cannot justify his use of force likely to cause death or great bodily harm if by retreating he could have avoided the need to use that force. “

    Like

  35. fish Avatar
    fish

    Perfectly OK then if Martin was checking out homes to potentially burgle in the future and that his being observed during this activity upset him to the point that he felt he had to return and assault a person trying to prevent criminal activities in his neighborhood.
    Good to see you are so “community minded”.

    Like

  36. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George, part III
    In parts I and II I have showing that the law doesn’t actually equate to justice. Yes with the changing of the law and the case brought against him he was found not guilty, this is true.
    Here is what the governor who signed Stand Your Ground (SYG) into law had to say last year when asked about Trayvon Martin (17) case.
    “Stand your ground means stand your ground. It doesn’t mean chase after somebody who’s turned their back.” Jeb Bush
    I have read that SYG law is 11 times more likely to justify white on black homicides. I have also read that in FL SYG has never successfully been used by a person of color over a white victim.
    SYG states have twice the justifiable homicides than do non SYG states.
    Last year alone over hundred unarmed civilians were killed in extra judicial killings.

    Like

  37. Sean Avatar
    Sean

    maybe we should kill this guy for giving the finger as well
    http://www.miqel.com/images_1/random_image/r1/george-bush_finger-flip-off.jpg

    Like

  38. Gregory Avatar

    “I have read that SYG law is 11 times more likely to justify white on black homicides.”
    Ben, that would be completely random and color blind if there are many more black on white assaults than vice versa, and there are.

    Like

  39. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George, part IV
    If we are going to look into criminal history lets take a look at criminal records.
    -Trayvon Martin had no criminal record
    -George Zimmerman whose father is a retired judge and would most likely get preferential treatment.
    Some context is found with these back stories
    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-lost-job-party-security-guard-aggressive-ex-co-worker-article-1.1053223
    In 2005, Zimmerman was arrested and charged with “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer.” Both these felonies are considered third-degree. Due to his desperate attempts, the charges were reduced to “resisting officer without violence” and then the only remaining charge was also completely waived off when he entered an alcohol education program.
    In the same year (2005), Zimmerman’s ex-fiance, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order, alleging domestic violence. In retaliation, Zimmerman filed for a retraining order against Zuazo and both these claims were resolved with both restraining orders granted.

    Like

  40. Russ Steele Avatar

    According to some sound clips from an interview with Trayvon’s girl friend on CNN, Trayvon was going to give the “creeper cracker” some WhipAss, later defined as just beating up, but not killing the victim. According the the young lady it was Zimmerman’s fault that he did not understand that among her generation WhipAss was just a beating not a killing. Trayvon was not going kill Zimmerman only giving him some WhipAss. Gee if Zimmerman had only know, he could have just laid back and taken it, he was in no danger of being killed, just maimed or disfigured. It appears that Trayvon was the aggressor according to the girl friend. What would you do if being give some WhipAss?

    Like

  41. Gregory Avatar

    “The defendant cannot justify the use of force likely to cause death or great bodily harm unless he used every reasonable means within his power and consistent with his own safety to avoid the danger before resorting to that force.”
    Zimmerman was trying to flee before he pulled his gun and shot Martin, but Martin was sitting on him, wailing away with fists and smashing his head against the concrete walkway.
    Sorry, Ben, that jury instruction wouldn’t have made a difference this time, and just because Zimmerman could have avoided all of this by staying in bed that day doesn’t mean he should have been required to do so. It’s as legal for Zimmerman or anyone else for that matter, official “neighborhood watch” or anyone else, to follow someone who they think looks suspicious; had Martin just said “f*** off, cracka” and walked on he’d have a chance to still be alive and kicking.

    Like

  42. Russ Steele Avatar

    After being give some WhipAss by Trayvon, Zimmerman was mugged by the DOJ:
    HOW DID THE TRAYVON MARTIN CASE BECOME A NATIONAL MEDIA SENSATION? With help from the Justice Department. “Through their requests for documents from local, state and federal authorities, Judicial Watch researchers were able to obtain hundreds of documents and emails pertaining to the case. This information helped Judicial Watch prove that a little-known unit of the Department of Justice (DOJ), the Community Relations Service (CRS), was deployed to Sanford following the Trayvon Martin shooting to help organize and manage rallies and protests against George Zimmerman.”
    Frankly, for the government to help organize and manage rallies and protests against an individual charged with a crime looks like a civil rights violation to me. I hope Zimmerman’s lawyers go ahead and sue, as they’ve indicated. The discovery process will be fascinating.

    Like

  43. Gregory Avatar

    “-Trayvon Martin had no criminal record”
    Trayvon Martin was suspended from school twice in the preceding six months and at the time of the incident was freshly suspended for possession of stolen goods (valuables from a burglary of a home near his school, between his home and school) which his school district hid from police to make their own crime numbers look better.

    Like

  44. Gregory Avatar

    Russ, that’s whupass, not Whip Ass.

    Like

  45. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 921am – I don’t know where you’re going with your SYG arguments, and I don’t want to put words in your mouth. I’m not aware of any SYG law used to wantonly decoy and kill people. But I am aware of blatant injustice done against people (e.g. homeowners in their homes) when defending themselves against intruders without the benefit of SYG laws. As you may imagine from the Bastiat Triangle banner of RR, I am much in favor of SYG.
    938am – apparently you are unaware of Martin’s past re his criminal record side. I’m again not sure what the point of this comment is re the Martin trial. An explicit conclusion would be helpful.
    Sean 937am – I take it from this pithy comparison that you believe Martin was killed for the pose in his photograph. Interesting conclusion. (I wonder if your employer knows you reason like that.)

    Like

  46. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George, part V
    This is the one everyone has been waiting for. First lets get this out into the open not all racist beliefs are malicious. In my opinion a vast majority of racism is A-moral. Just stereo types that can either be a positive or a negative. But then we get into the realm of power, control, and money. This is where racism gets very ugly. This is where most individuals who believe the propaganda of fear of the other comes into play.
    To try and compare same ethnicity/ race crimes with white against people of color is a way to justify racist beliefs. You guys really don’t get it. Racism is what our nation was built on and it is woven into just about every fabric of our laws and culture. The laws in our nation at the state and federal levels have been passed and signed into law with white majorities 100% of the time from day one. I cannot think of single time, state, or federal government that didn’t fit into a white majority. Intentional or not our laws are inherently based in white perspective. A perfect example of this is not a color of skin but gender. The statement above could also be applied to male and female as well. To this day women earn 75% to what men earn for the same qualifications and same work. Not because all men are misogynistic pigs but as men we cannot fully comprehend the perspective of a women and vice versa.

    Like

  47. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Oops I forgot to put this in above.
    Zimmerman had made dozens of 911 calls as a self appointed neighborhood watch. As far as I can tell 100% of those who were suspects in his opinion were black.

    Like

  48. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 1016am – Conclusion? And was not Zimmerman a member of an organized neighborhood watch as opposed one “self appointed”?

    Like

  49. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Greg,
    To your comments
    18 July 2013 at 09:48 AM
    18 July 2013 at 09:53 AM
    Zimmerman pursued Martin after being told not to, that is all we need to know. Criminal records are criminal records Martin had never been convicted of any crime. Just as Zimmerman has not been convicted of murder and cannot be used against him as a criminal offense.
    Martin was suspended from school for graffiti and empty plastic bag that is alleged to have contained marijuana but had no Juvenile Offender Record.

    Like

  50. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George, 18 July 2013 at 10:39 AM
    Not according to National Sheriffs Associations USA on Watch- Neighborhood Watch.
    George Zimmerman not a member of recognized neighborhood watch organization
    http://thegrio.com/2012/03/21/zimmerman-not-a-member-of-recognized-neighborhood-watch-organization/
    ““In no program that I have ever heard of does someone patrol with a gun in their pocket,” Carmen Caldwell, the Executive Director of Citizens’ Crime Watch of Miami-Dade, told theGrio. “Every city and municipality has their own policies. Here in Miami-Dade we train people only to be the eyes and ears of their communities. Not to follow and most definitely not to carry a weapon.”
    Despite this, Zimmerman admitted that he had fired a weapon on the night of the incident. In addition, the non-emergency call Zimmerman placed on February 26 before the shooting revealed he had been pursuing Martin by car before accosting the youth on foot — all direct violations of Neighborhood Watch policies.”
    I understand Zimmerman makes the claim he wasn’t on duty so that would allow the carry of the concealed weapon but the question is- is there an actually organization that has members, a board of directors, codes of conduct, trainings ect.. in place or is it just something George Zimmerman made up himself the community didn’t really see the harm so they let him do it?
    Here is USA on Watch- Neighborhood Watch statement
    “USAonWatch does not advocate watch members taking any action when observing suspicious activity in their neighborhood. Community members only serve as the extra “eyes and ears” and should report their observations of suspicious activities to their local law enforcement. Trained law enforcement should be the only ones ever to take action; citizens should never try to take action on those observations. USAonWatch encourages all watch groups to register with our national database where multiple resources are made available to assist in the training and maintaining of Neighborhood Watch groups and its members.”

    Like

Leave a comment