Rebane's Ruminations
June 2013
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George Rebane

Buying ammo in a proto-autocracy is quite an experience.  This morning a friend and I arrived at 630am for the annual Father’s Day ammo sale at Miwall by the Nevada County airport.  They hand out number cards to serve you in the order of your arrival; we were 201 and 202.  The place was already overflowing with buyers and more were arriving by the minute.  Before the morning was out there would be over 1,000 people assembled on the black top in front of the Miwall warehouse.

Fortunately is was not to be a very hot day, so those waiting in the sun were just on minimum broil.  My friend and I set up our chairs in the shade, broke out our lunchboxes containing breakfasts prepared by the wives of our lives, and just cooled it for three hours talking to neighbors and arrivals from distant parts.  The conversations were uniformly about the sad and saddening state of our nation.  No one could believe that ammunition purchasing in our land has now also become a social statement.

AmmoAfter three hours in our chairs it was time to get into the long serpentine line between the ropes that had been set up.  For some reason, starting with the sheriff’s deputies, there was a lot of security around – many extra men in black t-shirts with belt holsters were in evidence.  Picture taking was frowned upon.  These days only security cameras can photograph your puss during such assemblies.  These videos are, of course, available to the state at their pleasure.  Recording the passing scene where people congregate is rapidly becoming a no-no for private individuals.

Then with almost one more hour in the serpentine, we were finally allowed into the warehouse with our dollies which all experienced ammo buyers always bring – the stuff is heavier than lead.  And today we were introduced to the rationing of 22s – one 500 round brick of long rifles per customer.  The other types were available, but at astronomical prices that no one had experienced before.  Yet people were coming out with their handcarts loaded with various calibers, spending literally thousands of dollars.  And there were a goodly portion of cash buyers who did not want a record of their purchases to wind up in Big Data.

It was after 11am when we loaded our heavy boxes into the truck and pulled out while still more people were arriving.  All late comers were evidently surprised, and kept asking whether they still needed a number this late in the day.  Kindly but firmly they were told, that yes, they still needed a number.  So that is how our gun rights are being constructively removed in the opening decades of the 21st century.  Welcome to the new normal in Obamastan.

A major takeaway from this morning was that we recognized so few of the hundreds of gun enthusiasts and ordinary citizens, all in a panic to stock up before … .  Easily nineteen out of twenty of these gun owners don’t participate in any public forum in which the direction of our country and public policies are discussed or debated.  These people, almost everyone wearing some cap or t-shirt extolling gun rights, the NRA, or whatnot, come out of the woodwork on days like this, then disappear again never to be seen until next year.  And listening to them grouse, there was a great temptation to inform them to get off their collective asses, and do something besides mumbling in their beer.

My friend had an idea that next year various organizations, those which also promote Second Amendment rights as part of their political outlook, should set up information booths at Miwall inviting these ammo buyers to do something in the interval besides shooting their guns and buying more ammo.  Perhaps that will happen, unless the feds either buy more billions of rounds to totally collapse the civilian market, or make it illegal to buy ammo at all without massive registrations, background checks, and fees – or both.

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77 responses to “Buying Ammo in Obamastan”

  1. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Bill,
    It was you who used the incredibly wrong talking point that nearly half of Americans don’t pay taxes. “we taxpayers are a slight majority in the USA now (53%-47%)”
    Nearly half of Americans don’t earn enough money to pay income taxes is the truth but it sounds much worse so the truth stays in the bag. So why it Americans are more productive but their wages have remained stagnant while at the same time the inequality gap has grown to the worst in the developed world?

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  2. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Mr. Ben, guilty as charged. I skewed you little phrase “we taxpayers” and ran with it. Bailiff, wack my pee pee. However I feel you take any topic and make it about the folksy Walton clan or a factory in Timbucktoo that collapsed because of unsafe working conditions or the evil ones not paying their fair share.
    Yes, there is poverty in Bumfuck, Uranus. Stagnate wages, undo influence of Monsanto in Congress, feds spying on us….hell Ben, I guess this is on topic cause it makes me want to go out and buy a couple tons of ammo. Or, at least buy a bullet reloading machine so I can make my own when they come for or ban my ammo. Guilty as charged. Hang me on the Tree of Woe.
    What everyone needs is more money. To get more money we must confiscate it from those that are hoarding gold and ammo and stuff. Stuff. Like, how many classic cars does Jay Leno need?? 3 should be enough so lets take the rest and give them to starving children in Memphis or New Delhi. The old expression “Gold is for hoarding” rings true.
    Perhaps we can lower the tax threshold so more people will pay Federal Income taxes. Lower it to anything over 400 clams/year. That will get more people to participate in the “we are all in this together” mantra. After all, President Obama said many many times that we all MUST make sacrifices. Our Vice President calls it “patriotic”.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1DgYMYVaUE

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  3. George Rebane Avatar

    For the interested reader. Taxpayer percentages aside, BenE’s 735am again asks a question answered here many times – “So why it Americans are more productive but their wages have remained stagnant while at the same time the inequality gap has grown to the worst in the developed world?”
    The answer that eludes him and others of the Left is that the Americans whose wages have remained stagnant have NOT become more productive. They do simpler tasks because technology has intervened to either replace them or reduce the skill levels formerly required in their work. It is those workers’ skill levels that have remained stagnant.
    Those who can develop/build technology or do the new jobs now in the marketplace have wages that continue to increase and widen the wealth gap. It is they who are the productive ones, and the productivity increase they have delivered is averaged over all workers, causing the ill-informed to repeat their plaintive queries. Productivity is not uniform over all workers.

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  4. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George,
    Take a course from Southern Methodist University economics professor.
    http://www.truth-out.org/archive/item/83060:dr-ravi-batra-new-thinking-on-the-economy

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  5. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    I read an article that made the claim that part of the jobs problem is that investors can make a much higher return in a shorter period of time by putting their money into the financial arena with things like derivatives and sub prime mortgages rather than investing in manufacturing or similar endeavors that create jobs for working class people. It has been called the “casino” economy.

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  6. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Bill,
    As you know the larger the institution the less efficient and more corrupt they become. I don’t think any institution including the Republican and Democratic Party’s should get so big they can single handed negatively effect a nation or its economy in a “BIG” way. If they are too big too fail they are too big too exist. Its about competition.
    “No matter the topic, you seem to think collecting ammo is just another reason to regulate something and stop Big Pharma, Big Oil, Big Insurance, Big Auto, Big Chemical, Big Ag, Big Barbie Doll, and Big Mac w/fries from ruining out political system. They don’t deserve Congress’s ear or attention.”
    On the ammo statement I never made a position one way or another because I think the gun debate is a distraction from the real problems in the US. I just think reasoning has left the building when people like yourself have this romantic idea that you will take on the greatest military super power the world has ever seen if they decided to go no hold barred against the American citizenry. The US government has the thousands and thousands of nuclear weapons.
    For the record, you and the pro defense group has created this monster.

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  7. Gregory Avatar

    Frisch’s rantings reminded me of some of Sowell’s work, and so went to dig a little. Let’s see if anyone sees some of the Anointed in postings from the usual suspects:
    1. Painful social situations (“problems”) exist not because of inherent limits to knowledge or resources, or inadequacies inherent in human beings, but because other people lack the wisdom or virtue of the anointed.
    2. Evolved beliefs represent only a “socially constructed” set of notions, not reflections of an underlying reality. Therefore the way by which “problems” can be “solved” is by applying the articulated rationality of the anointed, rather than relying on evolved traditions or systemic processes growing out of the experiences of the masses.
    3. Social causation is intentional rather than systemic, so that condemnation is in order when various features of the human experience are either unhappy or appear anomalous to the anointed.
    4. Great social or biological dangers can be averted only by the imposition of the vision of the anointed on less enlightened people by the government.
    5. Opposition to the vision of the anointed is due not to a different reading of complex and inconclusive evidence, but exists because opponents are lacking, either intellectually or morally, or both.

    pg 242, “The Vision of the Anointed”, Thomas Sowell

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  8. Gregory Avatar

    “I just think reasoning has left the building when people like yourself have this romantic idea that you will take on the greatest military super power the world has ever seen if they decided to go no hold barred against the American citizenry.”
    Ben, you really have left the building if you think that is what was going on in the minds of your neighbors standing in line for an ammunition sale, including George. ABSOLUTELY NO ONE is talking about overthrowing the government. Where do you get this stuff?

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  9. Gregory Avatar

    “investors can make a much higher return [in]the financial arena with things like derivatives and sub prime mortgages rather than investing in manufacturing or similar endeavors that create jobs for working class people.”
    JK, 8:41
    Part of that equation is that with Obamacare’s takeover of health care in six months, no one can know for sure going forward how to figure the impact of health care costs, while ‘financial engineering’ is fairly risk free.

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  10. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Joe Koyote, this is what is happening in corporate America: Interest rates are too low and investors are moving money out of bonds and into equities. They b searching for higher returns, causing equities to become the new bond market in a way.
    This has created enormous pressure on corporate America to return higher value to the shareholders as they are demanding it. The companies now are paying higher dividends and engaging in stock buy back programs rather than old fashioned investments. The owners of the companies (the shareholders) demand it quite adamantly and now are getting it. Greater value to the shareholder (via the aforementioned dividends and stock buy back programs) is the norm, not the exception.
    Joe, this a direct result of the QE programs. Unintended consequences. Instead of easing interest rates to stimulate the economy, the result is the opposite. Money talks and BS walks.
    Even in my own little corner of the planet I see this daily. Cuts, cuts, cuts. In the prior 10 years or so at work thru 100s of meeting I probably heard the terms “return to shareholders” or “fiduciary responsibility” maybe twice. I hear it now at every single meeting. Cuts to return value to investors. Growth? Well, that is important, but not as important as the value to investors, i.e., the owners of the company like teacher’s pension funds and the little guys in suburbia and quaint burgs such as Nevada City, CA.
    Ben, guilty as charged again. My hands are dipped in the blood of Big Defense and nuclear weapons. Come over sometime and I will let you wack my Patriot Missile

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  11. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    A couple of thoughts while I was dealing with the livestock this morning.
    People complain about 47% of Americans not paying income taxes at the same time defending and advocating big retail stores paying horrible wages.
    I guess if you’re part of the working poor you are screwed from the right no matter what you do.
    Fight for better pay- communist, socialist, collectivist, progressive, liberal or what ever label George likes to throw around.
    Don’t earn enough to pay income taxes- freeloader who wants stuff from the government.

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  12. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Greg,
    I suggest you read through some of the threads right here on RR to find out why I give that scenario. As I have stated over and over on RR I am not what you would call an advocate of anti-gun laws. The gun debate much like abortion is a tool by the establishment to keep the electorate and citizenry divided so we don’t come together to throw their corrupt power monger a$$es out of office and possibly into the private corporate jails they have built.

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  13. fish Avatar
    fish

    On the ammo statement I never made a position one way or another because I think the gun debate is a distraction from the real problems in the US. I just think reasoning has left the building when people like yourself have this romantic idea that you will take on the greatest military super power the world has ever seen if they decided to go no hold barred against the American citizenry. The US government has the thousands and thousands of nuclear weapons.
    You say it’s a distraction but you never seem to miss an opportunity to remind us of one of the lefts favorite talking points, “Since we have a black man in the white house people have been stocking up on ammo for 4 plus years I will ask the question again – Should there be a law on how much ammo a person can hoard?”
    Is it permissible to dislike the current empty suit in the White House just because I don’t care for his politics. Barring that is it cool to dislike his “white half”….does that modification allow the discussion to proceed without blowing your “dog whistle”?
    I’ll try this once more. No, there should not be a limit to the amount of ammunition that a person can own as long as its been paid for and the homeowners fire insurance policy addresses the storage issue.
    The US government has the thousands and thousands of nuclear weapons.
    I’m sure we all have one pointed at us right now. (snicker) If small arms are of no consequence to the GREATEST MILITARY FORCE EVER why is gun control such a lefty issue? It can’t be about crime. Nothing substantive has changed in Chicago even considering the recent infinitesimal relaxation in gun control laws and the lefty Chicago political machine seems perfectly comfortable with 20 or 30 killings a weekend. I say this because I don’t recall seeing in candlelight vigils or impassioned pleas from Rahm this Monday following this weekends “festivities”. You guys have to know by now that the areas in which gun control is tightest has the highest rate of gun crime while paradoxically allowing the easiest access to guns.
    One can only conclude that other than yet another opportunity for “grandstanding” they don’t really care!
    But you feel free correct me if I’m wrong.

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  14. Gregory Avatar

    “I suggest you read through some of the threads right here on RR to find out why I give that scenario.” -Ben
    I suggest you support your statement with a fact. One quote, please, from the folks you think have left the building that shows they are expecting all out war with the government,

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  15. George Rebane Avatar

    Re BenE’s 841am – This is in a series of continuing examples that show how the liberal mind runs into a wall during these debates. As Gregory (905am) again points out, no 2nd Amend supporter here advocates initiating the violent overthrow of our government. Our Founders meant for us to keep and bear arms to prevent the government from violently overthrowing its citizens. But that seems to be an intellectual bridge too far for many of our liberal readers.

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  16. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Breaking News!!!! More great things happening that will keep these pages flowing with opinions:
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/us-back-top-most-millionaires-152957289.html

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  17. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George,
    When did I ever point to an overthrow of our government. I point to a misguided illusion that stocking up on ammo and guns to fight against an out of control US government. One is an offensive and the other is a defensive. Two completely different scenarios. This is where how the “conservative” mind on RR cannot get out of offensive mode due to their belief in being superior. At some point George you are going to have to admit in the big scheme of things in the world of money and power you are a peon who will get squashed like a bug if the sh!# ever hits the fan.

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  18. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Greg,
    Here are two quotes and my battery is down to less than 5% power so I will stop with doubling your demand. I only got through maybe a dozen of comments on one thread when my battery warning came on. I am sure there are plenty more. I point you to my comment at 18 June 2013 at 10:58 AM about offensive vs defensive.
    “Every single American must be in the ready to fight back against a tyrannical government. It is the Constitution’s own special call to arms to protect our own special Constitution.” 05 May 2013 at 12:40 AM
    “An armed populace is the best assurance against a govt deciding to suspend our Constitution.” 06 May 2013 at 09:00 AM

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  19. fish Avatar
    fish

    Ben Emery: answering every question except the one asked!
    Dance Ben dance!

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  20. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Well Fish, I answered the question and even doubled the evidence Greg asked for an it went down the RR sink hole. So I will do it again.
    Greg here are some examples for you.
    From the post itself
    Breaking Bread – ‘2nd Amendment and Gun Control’ (updated 10may13)
    “The Right approaches gun ownership top down through the 2nd Amendment, arguing the intent and writings of the Founders in their drafting of our Constitution. They see the real purpose of grassroots gun ownership as necessary to keep government from going rogue, and if it does, then as a last resort, to launch a successful revolution.” George Rebane
    I have very serious problems with George’s interpretation and have challenged him before on it. No where can anyone show the government the Founders were talking about was the government they signed their death warrants and fought to set up. We have to remember when the US Constitution was written and ratified there were zero other governments/ nations on the planet that were allowing citizens to participate in the decision making of the rules/ laws from which they were going to live.
    “Every single American must be in the ready to fight back against a tyrannical government. It is the Constitution’s own special call to arms to protect our own special Constitution.” 05 May 2013 at 12:40 AM
    “An armed populace is the best assurance against a govt deciding to suspend our Constitution.” 06 May 2013 at 09:00 AM

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  21. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Greg,
    I will try this one more time without the links. These are some examples off of one post within a dozen or so comments.
    I will also put it out there once again since most every “conservative” commenter on RR keeps lumping me into the anti-gun crowd, which I am not. I believe the gun debate much like abortion to keep the masses divided so we don’t come together on the bigger issues such as an unrepresentative government of a vast majority of American citizens. The D’s controlled the House for 40 years and didn’t take your guns away and the R’s controlled all branches of government in the early 00’s and didn’t do anything trying to abolish abortion. The rhetoric of those issues only becomes prevalent when one of the two parties are just short of being able to actually do something about it.
    Breaking Bread – ‘2nd Amendment and Gun Control’ (updated 10may13)
    “The Right approaches gun ownership top down through the 2nd Amendment, arguing the intent and writings of the Founders in their drafting of our Constitution. They see the real purpose of grassroots gun ownership as necessary to keep government from going rogue, and if it does, then as a last resort, to launch a successful revolution.”- George Rebane
    “Every single American must be in the ready to fight back against a tyrannical government. It is the Constitution’s own special call to arms to protect our own special Constitution.”
    Posted by: Bill Tozer | 05 May 2013 at 12:40 AM
    “An armed populace is the best assurance against a govt deciding to suspend our Constitution.”
    Posted by: Scott Obermuller | 06 May 2013 at 09:00 AM

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  22. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Fish,
    I wasn’t asked any questions by yourself. I asked a general question and you answered it, “NO”. What more do you want?
    You then followed up with a comment that had this in it which I gave example and what I consider it evidence of my statement.
    “You say it’s a distraction but you never seem to miss an opportunity to remind us of one of the lefts favorite talking points, “Since we have a black man in the white house people have been stocking up on ammo for 4 plus years I will ask the question again – Should there be a law on how much ammo a person can hoard?”
    Here is my response to Greg on trying to deny that ammo sales increased by 2-3 billion rounds starting the day Obama got elected. Maybe you can do the research see if the same thing happened when Clinton got elected or Carter. If it did then maybe I am wrong but I think I will be correct.
    Greg,
    It started the day Obama was elected President in 2008. I would say a 2-3 billion round increase from Nov 08 to Nov 09 is a pretty good indicator it had nothing to do with your claims.
    http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2009/11/02/Ammo-sales-prices-skyrocket/UPI-27441257213803/

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  23. fish Avatar
    fish

    “Should there be a law on how much ammo a person can hoard?”
    How would the “civil libertarian” answer his own question?

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  24. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    It would be an individual response since ammunition is covered in the US Constitution. I would answer it “No”.

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  25. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    It would be an individual response since ammunition isn’t covered in the US Constitution. I would answer it “No”.

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  26. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Oh Ben. Thank you for quoting me. I feel tingles down my leg. I suppose I should just quote Thomas Jefferson or the Federalist Papers to point out that the people have every right to overthrow this Government and form a new one if necessary to protect against tyranny. It was purposely put in the Constitution. What about that clause makes it so hard to understand is beyond my little brain. Yet, no one here advocates massive armed insurrection.
    There is a difference between legal defensive measures and offensive measures. This is not a mute point. There is a difference between quoting the Constitution concerning our duty to protect liberties if the Government fails to provide the environment where INDIVIDUAL rights can flourish unabated and actively seeking the overthrown of our current form of Government. I prefer to actively pursue these paramount ideals to ensure the prosperity of Individual rights and liberties and freedoms that our Founders clearly stated which precede government and supersedes government. Our rights do not come from government, never have, never will. Thus, we have the right to abolish any government that tries to take our INDIVIDUAL rights away or infringe upon them. So, why even pose the question should there be a law on how much ammo one can stock up on or how much money one can make? Reeks of what our Founders and their neighbors shed their blood for to fight against.

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  27. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Bill,
    The second amendment had virtually nothing to do with overthrowing our own government. I agree with your sentiment of holding our government accountable whole heartedly but in the form of the ballot box not with a bloodbath in the streets. I think the idea of Well Regulated Militia escapes those of you who think they’re going to take on the biggest military super power the world has ever seen. What does Well Regulated Militia mean? It means training, armories, discipline, and organization. It doesn’t mean every bum fu#@ idiot having a gun and talking sh!#.
    The reason I asked the question is to see what the response would be and I wasn’t disappointed. George likes to create these liberal straw men so he can show his intelligence against it. But for those who actually have done some living and reading themselves see right through the bs and find George less intelligent and more well read. As I have said before I am neither a gun advocate or opponent. Yet I am always lumped into the opponent category because it fits the straw man argument.
    Something George might find interesting.
    http://www.academia.edu/624021/The_Difference_Between_Being_Smart_Educated_and_Intelligent

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