Rebane's Ruminations
April 2013
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George Rebane

The end of round one in Boston’s latest experience with pan-Islamic jihad brings to mind several observations before round two gets under way.  My working name for round two is ‘Positioning for political justice’.  But here I’d like to put down some thoughts about two aspects – the larger frame of the Boston bombings, and the mighty law enforcement response visible on Boston’s streets.

In our public square many (most?) of us are still hesitant to connect the dots from such acts of terror to what, hopefully, is finally starting to be labeled a part and parcel of a global pan-Islamic jihad.  Some politically correct and evidence resistant pilgrims in public office continue to view incidents like Maj Hassan’s Ft Hood killing spree as “workplace violence” or some other equally inane appellation.  Others, including members of Congress (e.g. Reps Louie Gohmert, Peter King), are beginning to call for added surveillance of our Islamic organizations to match what has already been going on in keeping an eye on the so-called ‘rightwing extremist organizations’ that now include tea parties and veterans associations.

Many students of history and current events know that Islam is not unified unto itself.  Its 1.3B adherents come from many cultures all over Asia and Africa.  After the prophet’s death, Islam quickly devolved into many sects, each considering the other apostate and launching murderous attacks on the other.  About the only thing they all agreed on was that anyone not accepting their version of the prophet’s message deserved death, and that Islam was to rule the world by the sword and the Quran.  Once Muslims left Mecca and conquered Medina, Islam no longer pretended to be a religion of peace, save in their practice of taqiyya.


In the 20th century as America became the world’s leading hegemon, devout Muslims of all hues correctly induced from observing their youth that the existence and spread of American and Western culture was inimical to the survival of Islam.  This brought the hatred of the west and America as the Great Satan to be the third leg of common tenets held by all Muslim jihadists, no matter their sect or organizational membership.

Relevance.  When I was young, America’s culture was like a bright beacon, crisp, clear, defined.  It accepted and absorbed other cultures without itself fracturing (I joyfully subordinated my Estonian roots, painting them as red, white, and blue as I could.)  You knew if you understood that culture and played by its rules, you would be accepted without question, and you would become a part of something that was encompassing, dynamic, and good – you would become relevant in and to your society.

Personal relevance to your surroundings has always been an important part of a young man’s maturing.  Since time immemorial the sense of relevance to a society could be achieved by either taking satisfaction in building/defending it or changing/destroying it – being ignored by society as an expendable/ignorable cog has always been unacceptable.  And of the two, becoming relevant through participating in change or destruction has always been the easier for self-vindication.

America’s cultural landscape began to change in the late 1960s.  For a number of reasons (out of scope here) our cultural monolith began to shrink as schools started teaching that ‘all cultures are of equal worth’ and the relativism of good and bad.  Multi-culturalism began to take a new shape and meaning.  E pluribus unum began its retreat.

In this light, the Boston bombers followed a now well-trod path of their many hued Islamist predecessors.  To most accounts (not mine), they are considered ‘home grown’ and therefore much harder to detect early.  But I submit that they all have chosen their paths to cultural relevance in common with their terrorist forebears.  Today there is nothing unique or exceptional about American culture, our government tells them that even before they set foot on our shore.  America is like all other countries and places, somewhat more evil than most, and just trying to muddle through the best we can.  No need to sign up for anything here, what you have is just as good or better (more here), go do your own thing.  And it looks like they did.

UrbanFightingVehicleMy second takeaway from Boston at this time is the exposure to the might and muscle that the local police forces were able to instantly muster as their citizens trembled behind locked doors.  Did you see entire platoons of troops out of nowhere all dressed in formidable military gear?  And unabashedly displayed were these same troops being ferried hither and yon in some very scary looking combat vehicles.  While these were technically not from the DHS inventory of the recently purchased thousands of MRAP (mine resistant, ambush protected) armored fighting vehicles, they were nevertheless vehicles of the same type, impervious to anything that a group of disgruntled citizens could muster to oppose the local constabulary (more here).  The show of force to apprehend two then one lone gunman was daunting, especially when reminded that none of these were from our military or even the state’s National Guard.

The military uses of MRAPs have many critics and criticisms.  The criticism most relevant to the planned stateside use of these vehicles by our non-military government agencies, is that their formidable appearance (especially the turret on top) and sealed exterior isolates the gun-toting folks inside from those on the outside creating “a greater disconnection between troops and the local population due to their massive size and menacing appearance”.  But then maybe that’s the message that we’re supposed get when one of these comes rumbling down our street.

Postscript – And here’s a sample of some frustrated frothy fantasy fog from the frustrated Left as ably spewed by CS Kendrick on the Daily Kos – ‘Damn, why couldn’t it have been a lily-white Bible thumper veteran from a Kansas tea party?’  (H/T to reader)

Posted in , , ,

36 responses to “Boston and pan-Islamism – some early ruminations”

  1. Martin Avatar
    Martin

    George, I couldn’t help but compare a community during the 1880’s with 2013 Boston and come to one conclusion: today’s communities are filled with sheep waiting the arrival of the sheepdog they’ve chained to his dog house. Totally incapable of caring for their own security, oblivious to the results of their actions. And, the hours of video footage showing military grade squads of law enforcement going house to house, block by block in Watertown was stunning as well as quite scary at the time. These days it seems people have no knowledge of Habeas Corpus, Posse Comitatus, the 4th Amendment, let alone acts of Marshal law even exist.

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  2. George Rebane Avatar

    Martin 518pm – you have a point Martin. While the media are singing hosannas to the brave people of Boston, a comparison with how Israelis behave after such an act would be more than revealing.

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  3. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Lessons From Fallen Civilizations (subtitled Can A Bankrupt America Survive the Current Islamic Threat?) by Larry Kelley is a good read. Not so much as what happened, but WHY things happened in historical context. He argues, for example, that without the Polish army helping out in a battle for Constantine back then, we (Western Civilization)would all be speaking Arabic and studying Islamic Law in all our grade schools today.
    He sites many historical turning points, but Islam and its goals have never changed.
    Concerning immigrants understanding the culture in their new adopted homeland here, I caught a quick sound bit on the news that said it all. The bomber in custody said “I don’t understand Americans.” He never will with his Islamic jihad leanings. We are the antithesis to everything comprising his believe system.

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  4. Russ Steele Avatar

    The Diplomad has some thoughts on the Boston terror fall out.
    I find myself in agreement with his views on Islam. They have yet to demonstrate they are a religion of peace.
    “ . . . When are we going to learn that we get nothing good by allowing thousands upon thousands of Muslim immigrants into the US, immigrants imbued with a political ideology that espouses hatred for us? We need to treat Islam today as we treated Communism and Nazism in the past, to wit, as a hostile ideology that advocates the overthrow of our government and destruction of our way of life.. . .
    . . . Islam is a deranged way of viewing the world. It detests intellectual inquiry; sees women as no better than cows; and advocates violence, yes, violence. It is not a religion of peace. . . .
    If Muslims object to this characterization then THEY must do something about it. Not just the perfunctory statements after these events to the effect that “Islam is about peace.” No. The Muslim communities in London, Paris, Madrid, Amsterdam, New York, Boston, Detroit, etc, must stand up and unequivocally denounce the preachers of hate, turn in those who practice it, and make clear that they have no place in those communities. The advocates of terror must be denounced, arrested, jailed, deported, shunned, etc. Until Muslims in the West do that, then we must treat them with suspicion and as potential enemies of the nation just as we did Communists and Nazis.

    In Boston we have more evidence that immigrant Muslims are more than willing to kill American without any remorse. Have the leaders of the global Islamic community stepped up and denounce this act of violence against the men, women and children of Boston? Yes, Muslim leaders in Boston and Detroit have distanced themselves from the Marathon bombing in feared reprisals against their communities. Not because is was wrong, but because they feared reprisals.
    Else where in the middle-east the “religion of peace” celebrated the slaughter in Boston. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah celebrate Boston terror attack by giving out candies on the street after terror bombs exploded and murdered 3 people and injured 100s in Boston. I have serious doubt that the Islamic leaders in these communities denounced the Boston Bombing. If you know of some, please point the way.

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  5. Russ Steele Avatar

    Most interesting if proven to be true:
    The FBI was last night hunting a 12-strong terrorist “sleeper cell” linked to the Boston marathon bomb brothers.
    Police believe Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev were specially trained to carry out the devastating attack.
    More than 1,000 FBI agents were last night working to track down the cell and arrested a man and two women 60 miles from Boston in the hours before Dzhokhar’s dramatic capture after a bloody shootout on Friday.
    A source close to the investigation said: “We have no doubt the brothers were not acting alone. The devices used to detonate the two bombs were highly sophisticated and not the kind of thing people learn from Google.
    “They were too advanced. Someone gave the brothers the skills and it is now our job to find out just who they were. Agents think the sleeper cell has up to a dozen members and has been waiting several years for their day to come.”

    More HERE: Mirror.co.uk http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/boston-bombers-fbi-hunting-12-strong-1844844#ixzz2R425U9g5

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  6. George Rebane Avatar

    re RussS 749pm – Am glad to see Diplomad climbing aboard. When some years back RR identified the Islamic communities behaving like colonists wherever they settled, and put the onus on their community leaderships to denounce the atrocities of their ragheads, I received a different admonition from our local progressives. One of them even wanted me to go see the Muslim leaders in Yuba City to see how peaceful they were. My stated hope was that in these times it was they who needed to come out into our communities, and make the case that they weren’t playing both sides toward the middle.
    re BillT’s 716pm – am not familiar with the “battle for Constantine” and the Polish influence there. But have cited the 1683 Battle of Vienna many times that turned the tide of the Islamic invasion of Europe. That “large-scale battle was won by Polish-Austrian-German forces led by King of Poland John III Sobieski against the Ottoman Empire army commanded by Grand Vizier Merzifonlu Kara Mustafa Pasha.” The link I give in my post here features the famous painting of that momentous turn of history.

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  7. George Rebane Avatar

    RussS 825pm – that confirms what was reported all afternoon today that these guys were not alone and the explosive devices used were too sophisticated in their design and performance to have been just worked up by a couple of guys in a garage. I cite my speculation from last Tuesday’s comment stream under the post ‘On the inanities …’.

    So maybe I should practice what I preached and SPECULATE about what is being reported.
    From what I learned in the Army, I judge the IED to have had a sophisticated design and expert emplacement. The first hypothesis is based on the shape of the blast front – it was narrow in the vertical direction and broad horizontally. The second hypothesis is based on the casualties and the type/location of wounds. The IED was placed so that its explosive force was almost entirely concentrated at below normal human height (i.e. in the so-called horizon plane). The blast and shrapnel tore off and mangled mostly legs. If more of it had been directed at adult torso height, then more people would have been killed (witness the little 8-year-old).
    Given that the blast front was so well shaped, the explosive was most likely of a manufactured type like the ‘C explosives’ which could be molded into the desired form and selectively surrounded with shrapnel. In short, it probably was not a mix of separately bought chemicals concocted in a garage. (This should have already been confirmed through analysis of the explosion’s chemical residue.)
    Given that such expertise was required and in evidence, the terrorist(s) were trained by someone, and not brought to that level of skill by just perusing the web. This implies that an organization is behind this bombing.
    Using what the Rev Bayes taught, and with the overwhelming prior probabilities pointing to militant Islam, one of their organizations would today rank highest in the list of suspects. Chris Matthews, apparently being unfamiliar with Bayesian reasoning and the history of global terrorism, selects the Tea Party as the most likely terrorist organization behind it all. Given the kind of reportage he is known for, such a conclusion is not at all surprising.
    End of SPECULATION.
    Posted by: George Rebane | 16 April 2013 at 09:28 AM

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  8. Russ Steele Avatar

    George@08:46
    As we watched the news I kept telling Ellen that these two looked more like delivery boys to me, rather than your hard core terrorist. It was just an impression and the more I learned about them the more they looked like not very bright delivery boys to me.

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  9. George Rebane Avatar

    RussS 937pm – I think you’re right; they used to be called ‘bag men’ in another criminal trade. The FBI was quoted this afternoon as stating that making the sophisticated Boston bombs “requires significant and sustained training.”

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  10. Gregory Avatar

    “The FBI was quoted this afternoon as stating that making the sophisticated Boston bombs “requires significant and sustained training.””
    I googled your quote attributed to the FBI, “requires significant and sustained training” and didn’t get a hit on any FBI statement. Of the seven hits, only one mentioned the Boston bombing and that was a link to your blog.

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  11. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    It’s helpful to include your source for such a statement as
    “The FBI was quoted this afternoon as stating that making the sophisticated Boston bombs “requires significant and sustained training.”
    I was just a few days ago that you followed Russ’s lead on the Cris Matthews allegation that awarded you with egg on your face so accept the challenge and support your allegation.

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  12. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Dr. Rebane. Thank you for your correction. I was grossly wrong when spouting the “battle at Constantine”. Got confused. I offer no excuses for this error and missed the barn by a mile. I will try to be more accurate and carefully read what I write before posting in the future. Sincerelky, Bull Dozer

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  13. George Rebane Avatar

    Gregory 1239am, PaulE 151am – Good points. My source for the quote was copied directly from a Fox News correspondent reporting from Boston on the wrap up of what was said to that time. Apparently the statement came from an FBI official talking in turn into a bevy of mikes with other officials. The actual statement was not shown, but the report of the quote is accurate as witnessed by Jo Ann and me. I immediately wrote it down on my little yellow pad. Have no idea whether they archive these broadcasts. Hope that helps.
    BillT 636am – Not a problem Mr Tozer, this is a discussion forum and not a trial record. Look at my being raked over the coals and being fed egg on my face for the ready acceptance of what was alleged to Chris Matthews. Although, after viewing the videos of that sumbich, I’ll take the egg – his sentiments were close enough for government work. 😉

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  14. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    It was actually the Italina Mafia that started the “multicultural” crap if I recall correctly. Eventually the hit men killed Gallo. His legacy lives on.

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  15. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Does this heavy militarization of our police worry any of you guys?
    https://www.google.com/search?q=militarized+police+images&client=firefox-a&hs=hxx&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=wAp0UcvuI8XmiwK0_IHoAQ&ved=0CDsQsAQ&biw=1276&bih=673
    http://tomwatson.typepad.com/tom_watson/2013/04/paranoia-the-destroyer.html
    “Boston’s declaration of near martial law might seem protective and just playing it safe – what Michael Cohen of the Century Foundation called “cover your ass business by public officials” – but doesn’t it also prescribe a precedent? I was cheered at the Obama Adminsitration’s decision to process the junior Tsarnaev in criminal court and not whisk him off to military detention. But it’s also troubling that authorities invoked the “public safety exception,” which allows investigators to question a suspect without reading his Miranda warnings against self incrimination and the right to counsel. I often disagree with Glenn Greenwald of The Guardian on some of the nuances of civil liberties, but he was exactly right in his latest column when he noted that this decision is one in a long line of other cases that have gradually eroded the basic rights of criminal suspects to the extent that it makes the invokation of such an extraordinary civil liberties exemption so mundane a choice.”

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  16. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Ben, we agree on something and so does history reaffirm our agreement. That agreement is once government takes rights away, they never give them back. The only exception to this rule that comes to mind is probably ending Prohibition. Even that might be a stretch as booze may not be a right but a privilege. Once gone, rights are gone forever. Rights are being eroded at an increasing pace over the last few decades. Look what the TSA is doing as a small example. Look what Homeland Security is doing to American citizens.
    We have the right to bear arms in the 2nd Amendment to ensure the liberties and rights of the 1st Amendment. These so-called rights supersede government. That is why after the 1st Amendment comes the second. They are dependent upon each other.

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  17. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 1210pm – It worries me. If the terrorist is considered to be a garden variety US criminal, then he should have his Miranda rights read. If he’s an enemy combatant or something equivalent(even though an American citizen), then Miranda doesn’t apply in my book. Let’s see what his declared status is.

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  18. Gregory Avatar

    You always have Miranda rights whether or not you have been “Mirandized”. The issue with the bomber is that they haven’t actually told him he has those rights.
    The rights existed before the Miranda decision; they are to be found in the Bill of Rights. Even if a police officer makes a traffic stop and asks if you’ve had a drink, you have the right not to remain silent because anything you say could be used against you in a court of law.
    Regarding an earlier ferfuffle, George, it sounds like your error regarding that FBI “quote” was merely the attribution. It wasn’t the FBI, it was a newsreader’s summation of an FBI statement. Fair enough. I’m sure on the record statements will eventually follow when they have more than hunches.
    BTW those cool light armored trucks are made in Massachussets.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lenco_BearCat
    Every SWAT team will want a few, and even little Nevada County has something similar that has been shown off at the County Fair in the past.
    Hell, even Joe Friday used a tank! I always liked the “Have a Nice Day” sign on the end of the gun barrel.
    http://www.metacafe.com/watch/an-FIFUubYmthutb/dragnet_1987_friday_is_back_in_the_tank/
    Thank God, It’s Friday!

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  19. Gregory Avatar

    One too many negatives in at least one sentence in my last post…

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  20. Paul Emery Avatar

    Gregory, George
    It’s interesting how “news” stories ferment on the internet. The Mirror, basically an internet gossip tabloid with some news writes that “The FBI was last night hunting a 12-strong terrorist “sleeper cell” linked to the Boston marathon bomb brothers. Here’s the way they put it. No credible news source would make this assumption without at least three sources. They attribute it to just one. The story may well be true but this to me is irresponsible journalism from a source that specializes in celebrity gossip.
    Once something like this is printed then it takes off like wildfire and the sparks made it to this blog. Is the FBI investigating as to whether there are “sleeper cells” behind this. Duh I hope so. That’s a whole different question than the one spun by the Mirror. If we choose to discuss these matters intelligently we need to set high standards as to where we our information. This in my view does not qualify as a reasonable source.
    Here’s the Mirror headline and part of the story. It’s already third page. The current headline in the Mirror is about soccer players biting each other.
    Police believe Tamerlan and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev were specially trained to carry out the devastating attack.
    More than 1,000 FBI operatives were last night working to track down the cell and arrested a man and two women 60 miles from Boston in the hours before Dzhokhar’s dramatic capture after a bloody shootout on Friday.
    A source close to the investigation said: “We have no doubt the brothers were not acting alone. The devices used to detonate the two bombs were highly sophisticated and not the kind of thing people learn from Google………
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/boston-bombers-fbi-hunting-12-strong-1844844

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  21. Paul Emery Avatar

    Here’s the latest headline report from the Daily Mirror on the Liverpool Chomper. Hard hitting journalism here.
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/

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  22. Paul Emery Avatar

    Militarization of the police? This should be nothing new to Nevada County Residents
    Lets recall Sept 2009 when 200 law enforcement officers from over 10 federal, State and Local descended onto North San Juan for a Marijuana Cultivation bust. There were Sheriffs officers from Nevada, Yuba, Sierra, Placer and Butte Counties. There was the FBI, the DEA, the Highway Patrol, the IRS as well as state cops from the Attorney Generals office, game wardens, District Attornies and Nevada City cops. It was a real Festival costing untold dollars and filling up our hotels and restaurants with cops from near and far for a couple of days. Good for local business I guess.
    They came by Air (helicopters) on foot, on motorcycles and assorted SUV’s vans trucks, busses and patrol vehicles. A good friend of mine,a mother with four children was handcuffed to a tree for 6 hours before arrested-the charges were dropped two weeks later They made 12 arrests. Charles Hilkey was eventually sentenced to four years in a Federal pen. As far as I know the charges against the others were dropped.
    Not a peep from all the freedom loving conservatives, Libertarians and TP types when this assault happened?

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  23. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 651pm – Your continued recounting of this episode makes it sound as if the “freedom loving conservatives, Libertarians and TP types” were responsible for the whole thing. I have never seen this recounting in the public record, so it’s fairly certain none of the accused groups ever saw it.
    However, the militarization we are talking about is of the local constabulary. In Boston, it’s the Boston police. In Nevada County, it’s our sheriff’s department which by no means can match the equipment of the Boston police. But in any case, let’s keep an eye on what Nevada County puts into its armory.

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  24. Paul Emery Avatar

    Not true George, It was big news throughout the region. The Union article is not retrievable but to give you an idea this was the article in Yuba Counties Appeal Democrat. Of course they knew about it. It should have been an outrage but instead….silence.
    “Almost 200 law enforcement officers and agents raided a major marijuana growing operation Wednesday, hitting at least 10 locations on the San Juan Ridge in Nevada County……….Law enforcement officers from the Nevada County Sheriff’s Narcotics Task Force, DEA, IRS, Mountain and Valley Marijuana Investigation Team, Bureau of Narcotic Enforcement, Yolo County Sheriff’s Department, Placer County Sheriff’s Department, Butte County Sheriff’s Department, California Highway Patrol, Grass Valley Police Department, NET-5 (Yuba-Sutter) and El Dorado County Sheriff’s Department executed federal search warrants on the 10 locations.
    Nearly two dozen people were detained at the various sites and interviewed.
    Twelve people were arrested on Badger Hill Road as the raid unfolded, including Charles Hilkey, 55, the alleged grower. Authorities in multiple vehicles, including Yuba-Sutter’s Narcotic Enforcement Team, and three helicopters swarmed the Ridge through the morning as the raid continued.
    Read more: http://www.appeal-democrat.com/articles/county-86394-sheriff-nevada.html#ixzz2RAV5Tngv

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  25. Gregory Avatar

    Here’s some fresher news, Paul:
    http://www.thereporter.com/news/ci_22439619/california-pot-grower-charles-hilkey-sentenced-four-years
    http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2012/02/21/nevada-city-man-pleads-guilty-to-federal-pot-charges/
    While I think it should be legal, it seems clear Hilkey was not exactly following the law for medical grows and did his best to launder the profits.

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  26. Paul Emery Avatar

    Gregory
    NO doubt Hilkey was violating the law but that’s not the point. The law enforcement industry uses the pot laws as a form of harvesting taxpayer dollars. There seems little opposition from those who are the harshest critics of useless government programs and spending. Some conservatives (Tom McClintock) speak out but most are silent and look the other way while billions are spent on the “war on drugs” that funds such Festivals as these.
    Lest you forget, the law enforcement industry did everything they could to keep prohibition on the books. It took the 21st Amendment to override opposition and repeal prohibition. It the hookem and bookem (police) industry would have had their way it would still be illegal to have a beer and pizza at the Northridge.

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  27. Gregory Avatar

    Paul, if you go to reason.com and search for “civil forfeiture”, you’ll find a truckload of articles going back 20 years.
    It’s been an active issue in libertarian circles for years. That said, Hilkey is not a sympathetic character and you can do better.

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  28. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    200 law enforcement dudes as such don’t bother me. What Mr. Hinley and others should be scared speechless of is the appearance of the IRS. They really know how make your life miserable and they believe in guilty until proven innocent. Growing pot for illegal profit and not paying your fair share on such profits in what Joe Biden would call unpatriotic. Growers and pushers with tombstones in their eyes are about the only ones that drive around these parts with tens of thousands of dollars of cash on them. Kinda hard to be sympathetic to cash rich tax cheats. There is a very warm place down below reserved for murderers of 8 year olds and tax cheats.
    Guess that young Boston Bomber liked his pot very much. Party animal. Not very religious I suspect.
    Getting back to the Boston Bombing, since when have the Chechen Separatist Movement targeted anything but the Russians? Boy, them Chechnya types love going into Moscow movie theaters and blasting to smithereens 200-300 people. They like it so much that they do it again and again. Not their style to attack targets in the USA. Guess their movement has be taken over by Isslum Jihady. No wonder Russia is giving us their full cooperation and intelligence.
    Putin usually sends his tanks after a theater bombing and cuts them loose on Chechnyan villages, from afar of course. A little bombardment in return. All is fair in love and war. Boy, I guess it is true that the Isslums have declared war on us.

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  29. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    When I was a Supervisor we were asked many times to oppose the “deputizing” (I think that’s right) of many different types of departments in California (and Feds). Why we opposed them was two fold. We did not want to give “peace officer” status to the dog catchers because of costs, salaries and pensions, as well as making the people armed and deadly enforcers. Well, we held some off for a few years but like anything government, it hangs around until sympathetic people are in charge and it is now everywhere.
    I do not recall a massive swooping down on the pot industry here but it seems to me the PaulE’s and his ilk were always claiming the “black helicopters” were simply a conservative paranoia anyway. So which is it?

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  30. Gregory Avatar

    Todd, law enforcement has a great deal going with civil forfeiture laws. If they can make a case drug dealing has been occurring, for example, they can bring a civil case against anything of value they find (a sack of cash, a car, an airplane, a house). Because it’s a civil case, the standards of proof are lower than in criminal cases, and the real cool thing is (I think it’s still the case despite talk of reforming it) they don’t even have to find the owner guilty of a crime before beginning the takings. How great is that, assuming you’re the taker and not the loser?
    And the money goes not to the general fund of the city, county, state or Feds, it goes into the coffers of the agencies involved in the initial bust, hence the huge numbers of personnel from many different agencies when a big money bust is going down.
    Think feeding frenzy. There’s money in the water.

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  31. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I have opposed the laws of taking property under these cases. I don’t think it is constitutionally (or morally) right to take the car of a “john” or the property of a drug dealer until the case is adjudicated and a jury finds a person guilty and the fine is levied. This has made me an antagonist to the police.

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  32. Paul Emery Avatar

    Gregory RE: 7:59
    George refers to it as “harvesting”.

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  33. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Just read this off of Front Page, and if this doesn’t PO you and make you want to change the immigration laws, then you must be a Frisch or a PaulE.
    http://frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/muslim-boston-bomber-was-living-on-welfare/

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  34. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Just to drop off another perspective that I have thought every time we have tragedy in the US. We export this type of terror, destruction, and death all over the planet.
    Before I post the link with excerpt I have to say I think Todd and I have an agreement with his 22 April 2013 at 08:24 AM position. We are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. Andrew Napolitano has a good take on this in his book “Lies Government Told You”.
    Excerpt from article
    https://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/04/25-8
    Don’t Ignore How Others See Us
    “What must the “ithers” in the Middle East theatre of the American Empire think of a great city in total lockdown from an attack by primitive explosives when Iraqis, Afghans, Pakistanis and Yemenis experience far greater casualties and terror attacks several times a week? Including what they believe are terror attacks by U.S. drones, soldiers, aircraft and artillery that have directly killed many thousands of innocent children, women and men in their homes, during funeral processions and wedding parties, or while they’re working in their fields.”

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