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January 2013
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Smokey the Bear's rules for fire safety – keep it small, keep it in a confined area, and keep an eye on it – apply doubly so to government.

George Rebane

Here’s a 12 minute video taken by Houston’s KTRK news helicopter of a military drill involving what looks like Army H500 helicopters armed with machine guns participating in an exercise that involved some actual firing that got local people excited.  KTRK reports –

SkyEye 13 HD was over the south side where at first look, it appears there's a massive SWAT scene happening.   People have been calling police, as well as our newsroom, saying they're hearing gunshots in the area of Scott and Airport. It turns out, the Army says, it's a multi-agency training drill. They're doing it at the old Carnegie High School.  Helicopters were also involved. The Army isn't giving any details of what the training is about.   So if you see the helicopters or hear gunfire, it's only a drill.

It looks like the next kid planning to shoot up a school will have to contend with some real counter fire if he keeps at it long enough to give time for the helicopter gunships to get there.  Each can also carry about four armed infantrymen.  But there’s nothing to worry about, it’s only a drill against gun toting nut jobs, Islamist terrorists, or whoever else needs to feel the full force of government response in peace or war.

Now many of you may say, Houston was just a one-off, a special training exercise unique to the area or some other bullshit like that.  OK, so then what are they doing over Miami at night as reported in this WSVN newscast by a very compliant 'journalist' who isn't surprised that none of this was announced beforehand?

Some paranoids might think that these helicopters actually belong to the Dept of Education SWAT teams in its newly armed capability to collect delinquent student loans – their existing riot guns for that function may not be enough.  But then you know how desperate those student loan deadbeats can get.

Now consider if these unannounced 'drills' become so common place that the population at large comes to take little notice, and actually takes comfort in that the government is training to protect us all real good.  Would we ever know if someone or group was really apprehended during one of these 'drills'?  Would we ever take special notice after becoming sanguine about machine gun fire from low flying helicopters overhead?

In any case, practice makes perfect.  And as the good folks at KTRK and WSVN tell us “it’s only a drill.” (H/T to RR reader and correspondent.)

Posted in , , ,

134 responses to “Black Helicopters over South Houston and Miami”

  1. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Another Bush policy that potentially is becoming a major problem in the Obama administration if true. The Bush administration started this in 2006 by basically repealing Posse Comitatus then Obama with the NDAA 2012.
    These are huge steps towards an out of control authoritarian government. I can’t tell if George likes or fears this development of potential armed forces using military force against American citizens on US soil.

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  2. Jesus Betterman Avatar

    Now George, that’s you at your best.

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  3. George Rebane Avatar

    It turns out that the Bush administration started nothing of the kind that we see in these news reports. After 9/11 Bush did renew the ability of the military to be used in-country for counter-terrorism in addition to putting down insurrections. But that was repealed as of 2008. Obama’s infamous sub rosa ‘midnight re-institution’ of it on 31 Dec 2011 set the stage for an historic beefing up of domestic government agencies with military firearms (cynically called “Personal Defense Weapons”) and combat vehicles as reported in these pages. And now we have military gunships and troops conducting unannounced and unexplained training missions in American cities.
    Then with precise timing the leftwing chorus kicks in with another verse of ‘It Was All Bush’s Fault’. I don’t think that dog will hunt.

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  4. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    Documentation please of the repeal. Was it a Presidential order or did it wind it’s way through congress. I need some help with this because at a quick glance I can find no verification of it being repealed .

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  5. Paul Emery Avatar

    Thanks George
    Of course use of military force on civilians is well established. IN 1970 we had Kent State.
    “The battle lasted only 13 seconds, yet it became the Dien Bien Phu of the American involvement in the Vietnam War. On May 4, 1970, on the sunny campus of Kent State University, Ohio National Guardsmen opened fire on unarmed students. Their bullets wounded nine and killed four…”
    http://www.commondreams.org/views/050300-103.htm
    The Wiki reference accepted on it’s face value does confirm the repeal of Act but further states that under Obama’s plan forces can be used as such.
    “In 2011, U.S. President Barack Obama signed National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2012 into law. Section 1031, clause “b”, article 2 defines a ‘covered person’, i.e., someone possibly subject to martial law, as the following: “A person who was a part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners, including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces.” [8]
    do you have a problem with that?

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  6. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 241pm – the cited ‘covered person’ is not exhaustive, and its definition can be extended to whomever the government seeks to pursue under any convenient allegation. But that’s not the point of my post.
    If you are sanguine about the new kinds of operations (unannounced and unexplained) being carried out over American cities and consider them to be identical to what happened at Kent State, then we have no discussion going forward. I am not.

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  7. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    Indeed, they are much different than Kent State. There the government actually shot and killed student demonstrators. They were not engaging in “maneuvers”
    We (KVMR) and Democracy Now have been covering these kinds of operations for years so it’s not exactly new information. Here’s a bit of an explanation.
    http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2012/01/25/lapd-and-special-forces-conduct-military-maneuvers-in-the-skies-above-downtown-la/

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  8. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 337pm – Yes, and LA was discussed in RR comments also, but that still isn’t the point. You are here diverting to everything from the National Guard at Kent State to primacy of reports (most certainly the cited outlets could not relate the Houston and Miami experiences to anything else). And I am pointing out that these unannounced and unexplained exercises are becoming more common – along with other govt agencies beefing up.
    BTW, the ‘explanation’ that these exercises are to train flying and deploying in urban areas is no explanation at all. Any idiot looking at the sky can tell that that is an obvious element of such training. The ‘unexplained’ refers to the intended purpose for such training and its timing now. Why didn’t we start it ten years ago? Why are such startling training exercises carried out without notifying the news media?
    But I do understand why some people are always at ease with anything the government does – explained or unexplained.

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  9. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    We’ve been running these stories for years. Here’s one that we ran from last year for example from Free Speech Radio News:
    “In California, the Alameda County Sheriff may get a federal grant to purchase the high tech spying machines. But residents there are pushing back, saying the drones threaten privacy rights and add to the increasing militarization of police departments. Rachel Herzing is a member of the organization Critical Resistance which has fought against Oakland’s gang injunctions. She gathered with other critics Thursday in front of Oakland’s City Hall.
    “I’m very concerned that we continue to see more military equipment, more military practices, more military personnel employed in local law enforcement……”
    http://fsrn.org/audio/alameda-county-residents-cite-privacy-concerns-police-abuse-officials-seek-use-domestic-drones

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  10. Gregory Avatar

    Paul, the “government” didn’t shoot the demonstrators, a bunch of scared, undertrained and poorly commanded weekend warriors did. Americans at the time overwhelmingly blamed the demonstrators. Me, I was still looking forward to high school someday.
    I see a pattern and I suspect I’m not the only one… any wrong being perpetrated now by the current administration will ignored because of a wrong, real, imagined or inbetween, of a GOP administration in the past, even if the Congress was majority Democratic at the time.

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  11. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 446pm – I suspect we’re talking past each other again.

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  12. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George
    I was actually agreeing with you. The Republicrats have a long tradition of using intimidation and force to maintain their power. Now they have toe technology to finish off the job. The Vietnan was and Kent State was just one example of what happens when protest against an unconstitutional and illegal war goes too far.

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  13. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George,
    The Bush administration did start us down this road. Nothing I can find on Posse Comitatus shows that until the W administration basically repealed the act in 2006 any other administration violated the law. I know in my 40 plus years it hadn’t been broken. It stood for nearly 130 years before the Bush administration ended it.
    I find it very telling that you cannot admit that the Bush administration set the precedent of shredding civil liberties, federal law, and the US Constitution. They absolutely violated started us down a very very ugly road and I opposed them on those issues just as I oppose the Obama administration on the same issues. I 100% oppose the Obama administration even having the potential of using such force.
    To name a few things I protested both the Bush administration and now Obama administration. In 2010 at a candidate forum/ debate in Plumas County, where McClintock decided to go to a Tea Party meeting outside of the district instead of the forum, I spoke out and called the Obama administration a war criminal administration and complicit in the Bush crimes/ war crimes by extending/ expanding them and not prosecuting the Bush administration for their crimes.
    Here is a list off the top of my head.
    Habeas Corpus
    Indefinite Detention
    Extraordinary Rendition
    Torture
    Drone bombing attacks
    Occupation of sovereign nations
    War Powers Act
    Free Speech Zones
    Censorship of media
    Crack down on whistleblowers
    Patriot Act
    FISA Act
    Real ID Act
    Posse Comitatus

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  14. George Rebane Avatar

    Re BenE’s 718pm – I don’t think too many people agree with you that all those claimed transgressions started under Bush2. But what I can say is that the overwhelming fraction of Americans, me included, cannot point to any diminution of our personal liberties that Bush2 carried out. I cannot say that for the tenure of our current President (and his California chorus), and he’s just getting warmed up on diktats that will result in an historical reduction of things we must and cannot do.

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  15. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George
    Possibly not all but let’s start with the Patriot Act and the war in Iraq that even McClintock said was unconstitutional.

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  16. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Gregory
    There is no doubt that the war in Vietnam was started by the Democrats but it was administered by the Republicans who declared victory and hightailed it out of there. I see little difference between the Dems and Pubs and less every day since the Pubbers are in full retreat (immigration… etc) to try to stay competitive. Even wrestlers must pretend they are in opposition or no one will but tickets.

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  17. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George and Paul,
    That list is exactly what the Bush II administration did and almost all of it with the tactic of fear those terrorist are coming to get you, let the federal government protect you but we need you to surrender your essential civil liberties to us temporarily of course. The Enabling Act all over again. The Obama administration is worse in many cases but those who vote democratic party are now silent just as those who vote republican party were during the Bush years. It was actually a bit worse with the republicans because they challenged our love for the patriotism and told us to leave the country. That being said the Dems are catching up calling anyone who calls the Obama administration out that isn’t a republican a conspiracy theorist or a someone who is uncompromising and rigid. I get it from both sides of the duopoly aisle, which tells me I am more correct than wrong.

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  18. Gregory Avatar

    “I get it from both sides of the duopoly aisle, which tells me I am more correct than wrong.”-Ben
    Or just spectacularly wrong and just about everyone agrees.
    “It was actually a bit worse with the republicans because they challenged our love for the patriotism and told us to leave the country.”
    Ben, that’s bizarre; “the republicans” told you to leave the country? Do you have a quote for that?

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  19. Walt Avatar

    So why should non-gun owners, a majority of Americans, care about maintaining the 2nd Amendment right for citizens to bear arms of any kind?
    The answer is “The Battle of Athens, TN”. The Cantrell family had controlled the economy and politics of McMinn County, Tennessee since the 1930s. Paul Cantrell had been Sheriff from 1936 -1940 and in 1942 was elected to the State Senate. His chief deputy, Paul Mansfield, was subsequently elected to two terms as Sheriff. In 1946 returning WWII veterans put up a popular candidate for Sheriff. On August 1 Sheriff Mansfield and 200 “deputies” stormed the post office polling place to take control of the ballot boxes wounding an objecting observer in the process. The veterans bearing military style weapons, laid siege to the Sheriff’s office demanding return of the ballot boxes for public counting of the votes as prescribed in Tennessee law. After exchange of gun fire and blowing open the locked doors, the veterans secured the ballot boxes thereby protecting the integrity of the election. And this is precisely why all Americans should be concerned about protecting all of our right to keep and bear arms as guaranteed by the Second Amendment!

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  20. Gregory Avatar

    Paul, I don’t see how Boehner and the GOP forcing Reid to produce a budget after what, 3 or 4 years, is a full retreat. The GOP has the House, DEMS have the presidency and senate, they’re all playing full contact politics.
    Now we have a quarter of GDP shrinkage and Dem’s are fighting the good fight on gun control and amnesty for illegal immigrants. I give it a year before all settle down to just the “mostly say hooray for our side” 2014 electioneering.

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  21. earlcrabb Avatar

    Greg – As to Ben’s 8:18 comment about the Republicans using patriotism as a club, you should have seen them at the Rood Center when a Green Party activist asked the Supes to send a letter to Bush II demanding that Congress have a say in the Gulf War debates. It was quite ugly, and somewhere I have a flyer they were handing out declaring anyone who didn’t fall into lockstep with the administration was a supporter of Saddam. (If I can find it, I’ll post it on my blog.)
    Also, I guess you never saw all those “love it or leave it” bumper stickers that were popular during the sixties.
    Having said that, the Dems have learned from the experience, since they stick the “ignorant hillbilly” label on anyone who doesn’t subscribe to Team Obama’s playbook. As Todd would say, “Hey, it’s just hardball politics!”

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  22. Walt Avatar

    Don’t forget people who the Leftist media is just and extension of the White House
    propaganda network. And MSNBC is back to it’s same old tricks to help the anti gun Left. NOW they are messing with testimony on Capital hill.
    what’s a sentence or two edited out? Now ( at least then) ” The gun nuts heckled the guy! in front of Congress even!”
    Funny how that was NOT the case. Sorry gun haters, that trick has blown up in MSNBC’s face.
    So… Maybe a LIB here can fess up to the number of times MSNBC and friends have doctored tapes, and faked paperwork and documents, to further the Lefty agenda.
    And just why they should be able to retain their FCC licence.

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  23. Ryan Mount Avatar

    Politicking in the USA has always been nasty. Our glorious George Washington said this about Jefferson (well, Democrat-Republicans in general, but certainly aimed at the man who wrote the Declaration of Independence):
    “[Y]ou could as soon scrub the blackamoor white, as to change the principles of a professed Democrat; and that he will leave nothing unattempted to overturn the Government of this Country.”
    And then during the 1800 election, Jefferson was accused by Adams of being “a mean-spirited, low-lived fellow, the son of a half-breed Indian squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father.” Jefferson, in retaliation, hired what we’d now call a PR person. This PR person went on to convince the public that John Adams was intent on attacking France.
    Later, just as today in American politics (think: Dick Morris to Clinton), this PR person “broke” the “story” that Jefferson had 5 kids with his slave Sally Hemings in, of all places, France.

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  24. Walt Avatar

    OHHHH BOY!!! Can LIBS spin things like a top?
    Get a load of this about gun crime in “O”‘s back yard.
    CHICAGO (Sun-Times Media Wire) –
    Chicago’s top cop said the city’s deadly weekend wasn’t as bad as it seems when compared to last year.
    There were seven murders from gunshots and other causes from 6 p.m. Friday until 12:01 a.m. Monday , according to the police department. Altogether, the city saw 10 shootings during that period, including victims who were wounded but did not die.
    “That’s just not the way those numbers usually play out,” Chicago Police Supt. Garry McCarthy said Tuesday, adding that as of Friday afternoon the murder rate had been down nearly 30 percent for the month when compared to last year. He said there had been 13 fewer shootings last week compared to the same week in 2012.
    Is he getting his material from the AGW kooks?

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  25. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    RL,
    I was part of that group of Greens who worked on it. No where to the levels Kent, Beth, Doug, John ect… but I went to some of those meetings and worked on it but that document was my introduction to the Nevada County Greens. RIP Kent Smith.
    http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2006/03/10/18070421.php
    Greg,
    You must live in a complete bubble or have a very short memory my friend. Here is a perfect example of what was going on during the early years of the illegal invasion. I suggest you watch the film “Shut Up & Sing” or at least watch the trailer for it
    Shut Up & Sing trailer
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QKD40HIeKI
    During a Nevada County Peace Center rally we marched through downtown GV on the first or second anniversary of our illegal invasion/ occupation of Iraq and we were verbally assaulted with the threat of violence and were told we hate America and to move to France. I cleaned up the language a great deal. What I would say the number of ignorant fools who claim- we should shut up and thank the military for securing our freedom of speech- were a very small minority and a vast majority of people who might of disagreed with our position disagreed in a polite manner.
    PS
    We were and still are correct

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  26. Walt Avatar

    LOL Ben,, Your complaining about “verbal assaults” from ” the Right”?
    Where were you when the Tea Party people were vilified in our local parades?
    From shouts of hate to the “finger”. ( Yaaaa,,,, we see Lefty (ha) tolerance ( or lack there of,,, all the time)
    Illegal war? Do a little digging of rules of a “cease fire”.
    We are still under those rules of war with N. Korea. technically we are still “at war”.
    Just because we haven’t exchanged gun fire for a long time, in no way makes the war over.
    The same rules apply to Iraq. Iraq NEVER signed the surrender papers. a ” ceasefire” was in place. ANY President could have sent troops back into battle without Congressional approval.
    Yes, If “O” wanted to he could go into N.Korea at ANY time.
    If I’m wrong,,, show me the laws. Show me the documentation.
    Illegal war? Go pound sand….

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  27. Paul Emery Avatar

    So quite simply Walt you believe the war in Iraq to be constitutional yes or no.

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  28. Walt Avatar

    YUP! Even that turncoat ( Repub now LIB) Collen Powell
    thinks so to this day.
    Good thing you weren’t in Iraq when Saddam gassed his own people.
    Never mind the rest of the human rights violations that went on there.( twice)
    We would have only had to have been there ONCE id our military was allowed to finish the job. But Lilly livered LIBS demanded and end.( and got it)
    But “O”‘s involvement in these “non wars” is fine and dandy.( Syria?)
    What “O” is doing is not much more than a gang style ” drive by” ( or fly by in this case)shootings. Now OUR weapons are turning up in Syria. ( Iran Contra all over again?)
    But not a peep out of LIBS.
    Speaking of the Constitution,,, LIBS don’t care for it vary much. Let alone defend it.
    And NOW you decide to bring it up????

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  29. Walt Avatar

    Speaking of war in the great sand box, we are shipping new F16s to Egypt.
    THEY are no friend of ours anymore. So in essence, we are arming our enemy.
    Just what kind of a bonehead move is that? ( if not criminal) Hopefully someone had the good sense to add a remote destruct charge to all the planes, so if and when we come face to face with our own hardware we can take care of that little problem,
    since “O”and CO. love their new push button war.

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  30. George Rebane Avatar

    re Walt’s 518pm – the liberal elites of the country are definitely doubling down on their program to abrogate the Constitution. Seidman is now making regular appearances on the lamestream.
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2013/01/the-great-divide-we-dont-need-no-stinking-constitution.html

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  31. Walt Avatar

    I find it comical that our far Leftys only bring up Constitution when they think
    it fits their purpose of the moment.
    Paul just left out their biggest BS claim of the war. ” free oil” or “war for oil”.
    Never mind that we didn’t get one drop of that “free oil”.
    I said this once and I will say it again. ( you might remember this.. LOL)
    Some of our LIBS remind me of Alzheimer’s and dementia patients (oooppsss,, victims… we know how they like the word victim when applied to them)

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  32. Walt Avatar

    Paul,,, Do you remember that BOTH houses voted IN FAVOR for armed action known as the Gulf war? BY DEFFONITION ,,, the war was CONSTITUTIONAL. The war ends when surrender papers are signed. ( ask Japan about that)
    You DO know what Jihad means,, don’t you? ( holy war if ya’ don’t)
    Think “our enemy” believes that war is over? Think they are done trying to acquire
    nukes, poison gas, viral agents? HHuummmm??? You don’t think they won’t try and use them HERE?
    So DO tell.. Just where would you care to do the fighting? Here in our own streets, or keep the carnage in their own front yard?
    WE are at war with religious lunatics that have nothing better to do than kill people all in the name of religion. ( tolerant my ass) Get used to it.
    BTW,, Since “O” took office the Middle East is SO much better. He got the Nobel peace prize in advance because of his great “uniting” skills. And how did that work out?
    He needs to give it back. The money too.. With interest. ( I know… good luck)
    Maybe “O” is the 12TH Imam we have been warned about.

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  33. Gregory Avatar

    RL, the claim from Ben was “the republicans” told him to leave the country. That’s quite a bit different than ‘some guys on the street I figured were probably republican’ thought he should leave the country. And regarding the ’60’s “Love it or leave it/Change it or lose it” bumpersticker war, my grampa Joe, the Frisco native brewer’s union secretary, was Democrat through and through, and he also thought the commie bastards should leave the country, or at least shut up. I remember him asking some partygoers to leave his house after they began singing the Internationale after more than a few drinks… guess they thought the Brewers were like the Longshoremen.
    Ben, I attended one of the so called “Peace Vigils” by the “Peace Center” and saw more hate in one place than I ever had before, from the attendees.
    Paul, if Gulf War part un was constitutional, so was Gulf War part deux. Legally, they were one and the same, separated only by a cease fire whose conditions, including that they help prove there were no WMD’s, were not met, and both parts were authorized by Congress, though not in the way I would prefer.
    Of all the political parties in the US, only Peace & Freedom and Libertarian parties actively protested Part Un. If you weren’t there, don’t bitch.

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  34. Walt Avatar

    The Libs may not have heard this. Israel has done what was needed
    today. They hit two targets in Syria. One was a convoy of weapons
    headed for Lebanon. Who the hell knows what was in those trucks.
    Chemical weapons maybe?
    So who will “O” condemn? Israel for a “senseless attack”? Or the weapons smugglers.? (naaaa)
    You can bet “O” acted like a raped rooster when he got the news. ” How dare they act without MY permission. I needed time to tell Syria!”
    No way did Israel tell the W.H. about this. They learned their lesson when “O” and Co. ratted them out about an attack on the Iran nuke facility.

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  35. Walt Avatar

    BTW,, a little off topic,(so what else is new? lol) But I heard a strange sheriff dispatch last evening. They needed an officer to respond to the outside of the jail, for a naked mane causing a disturbance.( full nutjob mode I guess) With that said,, Anyone seen Keach???

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  36. Paul Emery Avatar

    Walt
    Don’t waste gas on defending your position on the constitutionality of the war in Iraq. You are on record on that and nothing else needs to be said. You are a genetic Republican for sure which disqualifies you from independent thinking. Your view is decidedly different from Libertarians such as Ron Paul or even conservative Republican Tom McClintock who believe otherwise. War was never declared so how can there be a surrender? . The joke is that you claimed we had authority to go to war to defend UN mandates. To use that justification is funny beyond belief on this blog.
    Yes, just a reminder that we sold Saddam the materials to make poison gas and made no effort to stop him when he gassed the Kurds because it served our strategic interests at the time.
    Gregory
    I suppose you believe that the War Powers Act provides the Constitutional cover to justify wars such as in Iraq, Vietnam , and even Grenada. I disagree with that premise. Once again I revert to Ron Paul on his brilliant essay “Why We Fight”
    “Today too many Americans support, at least in the early stages, the use of force to spread our message of hope and freedom. They too often are confused by the rhetoric that our armies are needed to spread American goodness. Using force injudiciously, instead of spreading the worthy message of American freedom through peaceful means, antagonizes our enemies, alienates our allies, and threatens personal liberties here at home while burdening our economy.”
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul274.html

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  37. Gregory Avatar

    Paul, I was referring to constitutional fig leaves, not good justifications and I was the one who was actually listening to Ron Paul when the first Gulf War was approaching. Literally, just a few feet away, back when $150 would buy a nice reception invite 🙂

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  38. Walt Avatar

    Paul. As far as I am concerned, you can bitch and make any “claim”
    you like at this point. ( You can kiss the 1ST for that ability)
    No,, I’m not a “Repub”. I am a Conservative. BIG difference.
    And ” I’m on record”? LOL!!!!
    UN??? Really?? You want to go there? Remember when “O” went to the UN
    for his little games when he couldn’t get things through Congress? He(we) doesn’t
    answer to the UN OR seek permission from the UN. And in MY opinion, WE are the UN.
    The UN is funded mostly by us, manned by us, and armed by us.
    The UN is worthless at this point. Nutless at best. UN peacekeepers are used as target practice on a regular basis and nothing is done about it.
    I don’t have much respect for our local ” UN club”. I loaned them some documents, papers, and personal family artifacts directly related to the forming of the UN, and have refused to return them. ( Yes, I even made them sign a letter to the fact that the items were on LOAN.) Maybe I should lay claim to the “UN table” at the cultural center? Maybe that would get their attention. ( Yes, I’m still pissed after all this time)

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  39. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Hey Greg,
    “The Obama administration is worse in many cases but those who vote democratic party are now silent just as those who vote republican party were during the Bush years. It was actually a bit worse with the republicans because they challenged our love for the patriotism and told us to leave the country.” It should read they challenged our patriotism.
    Having to take things out of context means you’re wrong and are scrambling. You’re wrong, admit it. You asked for documentation of people telling anti war protesters they don’t love their country and to leave it. I believe calling those who criticized Bush and opposed the invasion traitors and telling them to move to France is a perfect example of my claim. Also in the link a person speaking on the radio making the statement to strap them(dixie chicks) to a bomb and drop them on Baghdad.
    But here is another statement by Republican Attorney General John Ashcroft if you want a direct representative of the Bush administration “Critics who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty only aid terrorists, for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve,”
    In political speak this means- those who fight the Bush administration policies on the grounds of losing civil liberties are aiding terrorist or calling them traitors.
    Greg it is very disappointing to see you become one of the biggest Bush/ Republican apologists when you used to proudly fly the flag of not being a republican. So sad.

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  40. Gregory Avatar

    Ben, you are nearly as bad as Keachie when it comes to inventing positions and attributing them to me.
    I have no idea who you were trying to quote above, and perhaps if you can dig up a quote of mine that is a Bush apologism, I’d have a clue what you’re on about this time but in general, refusing to hold my breath till I turn blue like you are isn’t being an apologist.

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  41. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Paul,
    What our defenders of oppression and tyranny fail to recognize the Bush administration was obligated to return to the Security Council a second time, which did not happen. On September 15, 2004 UN Secretary General Kofi Annan said “I have indicated it was not in conformity with the UN charter. From our point of view and from the charter point of view it was illegal.”
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3661134.stm

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  42. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Greg,
    So so sad.

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  43. Walt Avatar

    That’s a good LIB Ben. Tow the party line at all costs.( your little dig about being a apologist)
    You think the UN is so great? Dad did too at it’s conception, and had some input in it’s creation. So yes. I have a little knowledge of what the UN was supposed to be. That’s NOT what it is today. It’s a joke.
    You know those guys that politicians get advice from that you NEVER hear about?
    Pops was one of them. That’s why I have a unique perspective on politics.
    How influential was he? Here is a hint. I have one of two Presidential inauguration
    invitations TO the W.H. from two separate Presidents.
    I will never fill his shoes in the political arena, I just use what I learned, my own way.
    I sure wish I had his contacts though. ( too bad most are long dead. Lucky you)
    BTW,, tell your pals in the local “UN club” I want those items returned. They should know what your talking about.

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  44. Walt Avatar

    Speaking of “illegal wars” ( uh,, Paul and Ben, )
    Or is it only conflicts that start when a Repub. is
    at the helm? Bush took his case to Congress. As he should have.
    Here is what “O” did with Libya.
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/09/how-obama-ignored-congress-and-misled-america-on-war-in-libya/262299/
    Now we are arming our enemy with f16s. OH JOY!.

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  45. Gregory Avatar

    Ben, Kofi Annan’s son was one of the folks who got Oil For Palaces kickbacks. The UN had no moral authority by then on Iraq as there were British, French, Russian and (iirc) Chinese ministers (ie the Security Council) on the take, while it was US and British pilots getting shot at that were keeping a lid on Baathist belligerence towards Shia and Kurds.
    I tend to blame the UN for allowing Oil for Food to become a bigger fraud than Enron and for Bush I for (1) getting the US involved, even worse, (2) not finishing the job and (3) trusting the UN to take over.

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  46. Gregory Avatar

    Ben 8:27PM
    So funny that you aren’t coming up with anything rational to say! String some real facts together rather than just spouting the same old tymey regressive progressive religion that you’ve been leaning on.

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  47. JesusBetterman Avatar

    I was busy protecting students at our local schools, while the regular teachers took in-services, covering an intro to Common Core, not at jail. So where was everyone, I expected many of you at the Agenda 21 talk at the Elk’s Lodge? You missed enlightenment.
    As for Lovin’ it : http://nowasmuchasever.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/the-hard-hat-riot-america-love-it-or-leave-it/

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  48. Paul Emery Avatar

    So lets see Walt. You are a “conservative ” but certainly not of the same ilk as Ron Paul or Tom McClintock. What is the difference in your view in your obviously contrasting conservative views as applied to the war in Iraq ?

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