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January 2013
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George Rebane

The importance and magnitude of EVERY social problem lies in its numbers.  If you don’t understand the numbers and how they relate, all you can do is emote about the problem.


BillGatesRR
has argued from the start that applying the tools of the systems sciences is critical to the solutions of all social problems (see end notes below).  For obvious reasons, also presented and discussed in these pages, the Left has been the major opponent of bringing analytics and numeracy to bear on social issues – this for the simple reason that it deflates their emotion based fuzzy rhetoric which they use to promote their collectivism.

Well, now we have no less than Bill Gates coming out in a major piece promoting quantitative “measurement” for solving worldwide problems ranging from high infant mortality to the classroom evaluation of teachers.  His proposals contain absolutely no new ideas, but what is important is that the world’s most famous billionaire and philanthropist is going public with ‘new’ notions the youngest of which is about fifty years old.

In his ‘My Plan to Fix The World’s Biggest Problems’ there is no plan presented, save the exhortation to start measuring and recording things to do with the problem that you’re trying to solve.

For reasons unknown, Gates does not make clear the difference between a utility function or figure of merit (FOM), that would serve as an objective or goal or to define ‘good’, and the measured attributes that go into the FOM.  Perhaps it’s because the piece was written for broad audiences who would be confused by such nuances.  However, regular RR readers should not suffer similarly.

A clarifying example might serve here.  Consider buying a car from the many models offered – which one to buy?  To keep it simple, the only attributes you consider important are its top speed and cost.  Somehow you have to trade off these contentious attributes since the faster cars cost more.  The tradeoff is performed in your formulation of the cars’ FOM which combines the numerical values of each car’s speed and cost.  Then you can collect the numbers for the cars, calculate their FOM values, and pick the one that for you yields the maximum utility.  (For you phormulaphiles, a typical FOM formulation here might be FOM = weight*(mph top speed) + (1 – weight)*(K$ cost), where weight is a number between 0 and 1 that reflects your speed/cost tradeoff.)

And here’s rub and the benefit – the adoption and expression of every FOM or utility function is completely subjective for whatever problem you’re solving.  The FOM captures your values, judgments, experience, likes/dislikes, and even constraints on what can be done.  And such explicit FOMs can do the same for a government, community, or a corporation (business has been using them for decades).  Gates is finally saying to America that we have to approach problems with systems thinking if we want to make progress.  Continuing with the Left’s approach of “issues activism” based on selected anecdotes and fuzzy emotionalism, while rejecting data and a common understanding of ‘good’, will not accomplish much, and has gotten us to where we are now.  (That last italicized bit I added because Bill Gates couldn’t.)

The belated call for such quantitative approaches is encouraging, even though it might turn out to be just more relieving yourself over the windward gunnel.  I hope not.  Read the article.

End Notes:  For a brief summary of RR postings related to reasoning and systems thinking, I have culled the following short list.  More can be found filed in RR’s ‘Science’ and ‘Science Snippets’ categories.

‘Economic Development in Nevada County’
‘Systems Science Rules (almost)!’
‘Healthcare Utility Metric with Scriptural Underpinnings’
‘A Thoughtful View of Climate Change’
‘Why Reason Fails’

Posted in , , , ,

167 responses to “Numbers get a (confused) boost”

  1. Gerry Fedor Avatar
    Gerry Fedor

    I find it interesting that Walt complains about not being able to find a equipment operator position, yet he seems to not want to get retrained for another skill…..
    Sorry there big guy, but you are much like every other “limited skill worker” as I bet you do a great job on a backhoe, but how come you could learn another skill and do electrical work rather than complain about how our President’s policies have personally “F’ed” you?
    Your days as a backhoe operator are (with the current economy) gone, much like your ability to make a living by doing something other than agricultural activities.
    It’s time to get out there and get re-training that will allow you to work to a level where you will not feel that you’ve been screwed. Many of have done it numerous times, dependent on the needs of the economy and in this case it’s time to “man-up” and take control of your own destiny.

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  2. Gregory Avatar

    Keach, the world doesn’t revolve around Frisco. That you are so bloody ignorant about SoCal and the Claremont colleges isn’t my fault, and I was regaled of stories of early 20th century Frisco by my grampa Joe (Lowell Class of ’24) before you stumbled out of Berkeley.
    And you’re an semi-active teacher? Not keeping up, are you? The content standards are still posted, but they have officially been abandoned. California is a CommonCore state and they take precedence:
    “The charge to the teachers and administrators from eight school districts seemed simple enough: Create an activity, called a performance assessment task, that would show, when solved, that students understand a unit covering Common Core standards that California and 45 other states and the District of Columbia have adopted. Really understand, not by simply choosing a multiple-choice answer, but by explaining or illustrating in multiple ways the depth of their knowledge.”
    http://www.edsource.org/today/2012/two-years-plus-and-counting-teachers-prep-for-common-core/17825
    The last sentence I quoted is deja vu from the year we spent trying to get real math at Grass Valley’s Hennessey School, and Phil Daro, prominent in the article, was one of the architects of that Fuzzy Math debacle that lead math education to tank in California.

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  3. Jesus Betterman Avatar

    And the whole point of the discussion of what will be taught when was your claim that the discoveries of Joseph Black were more likely to be taught in middle school science than high school science. Heat is heat, whether measured by a high school student or a PhD, whether using a bomb calorimeter, or the latest and greatest and possibly even remote (satellite) sensing device. Your attempt to deny basic science as it is taught in high school, and defame me for using terminology that may well be understood by a wider audience, by denigrating what is taught in high school as (paraphasing here), “mere middle school science” shows your obvious contempt, rather than any appreciation of the topic you profess to love. You seem to have a bad case of, “King of the Mountain.”
    Until you can show in the Common Core the place where middle school students are working with bomb calorimeters, the funding for such labs on a commonplace basis is in place, you are full of your favorite substance, and dead WRONG!
    Still haven’t found Canyon, have you, your are therefore, by your own standards, your brain still revolves around the Eastern Branch of the Valley Girls’ Homeland. You didn’t even recognize Smartsville, less than 20 air miles from your “Oldtimers” home in Nevada County, for shame!
    Given that 1 hour of good interactive teaching material takes 300 hours to create, I’m willing to bet that creating original assessment tools as described in every single collective of every county, is simply a way of kicking the can of improving education that much farther down the road. Show me all the assessments that have been created in Glorious Claremont, Comrade Goodknight. Surely such efforts are being made public all around the country, and there is a page showing all the additional work piled on top of teachers to do, done. More bullets have been expended in school shootings than such assessments have been created and published for easy and complete review, as teacher lesson plans, my hunch.
    http://en/wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorimetry

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  4. Jesus Betterman Avatar

    Better yet, Greg, find such a Common Core Assessment for middle school science students, in the area your staked out, calorimetry. This is going to take a while…….

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  5. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 1006pm – I think that responses from ScottO and Greg cover most of my concerns. What you are not responding to is the growth of government needed to enforce your new dictum. And also, you seem to have done away with advertizing in the land of the free. Advertizing is the prime revenue source for the media that is supposed to keep us informed. Would you establish another enforcement bureau to monitor ads and arrest those who spend their money in your newly prohibited ways.
    As many of us have said so many times before, take away the ability for government to dispense all those goodies.
    In my next post I have this tag line ‘Smokey the Bear’s rules for fire safety – keep it small, keep it in a confined area, and keep an eye on it – apply doubly so to government.’

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  6. Jesus Betterman Avatar

    So Ryan, shall the Left do the same video with Repubby leaders and the phrase, “tax cut?” Then a third genius could come along and combine the two. Some national dialog we’ve got going.
    Put the whole thing to music, as found here: Let’s dance: https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10200295703215944 ⇘⇩⇩⇩⇩⇩⇙
    And here’s the best cliff yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdFBtHU-SmU&list=PL0E71A71D34402769

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  7. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    re: Ben at 11:22 – Please go back and read my post, Ben. How do you keep track of who pays what? Why can I only give 100 bucks? As I stated, the unions don’t have to give any money, they can spend it on their own to help the candidate as well as busing the troops out to the neighborhoods to campaign. How do you ‘shorten’ the election season? Put the candidates in a cell and take away their rights? Have you even thought about this plan at all?
    “There are certain aspects of our society that shouldn’t be driven by the profit motive, the news media is one of them.”
    It’s always about more state control over our lives. No wonder you leftists want to take our weapons. The news orgs should all work for free? Where do you get this drivel? Good grief.

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  8. Jesus Betterman Avatar

    For those not on Facebook, this link will work better for the first video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzArlTkwCN8

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  9. Jesus Betterman Avatar

    And Greg, please show some evidence to prove that the state has abandoned its Science Framework, in light of the fact that they are just barely getting the English and Math items started, and also, since when did Nevada County Schools become part of the group of schools that are pioneering the concepts, marshmello mushy as they are? Do you have stateements from the School Board or the Superintendent of Schools to that effect? If not, your notion that I’m behind the times is totally bogus. I teach what the teacher leaves on his or her desk, that’s my job. Should there be an opening for 68 year old retired teachers such that my job responsibilities were expanded, I would take them on, if I actually still wanted such a job. Retirement is good, you should try it some time.
    For the latest in what the state is doing with Common Core, see: http://www.cde.ca.gov/re/cc/documents/ccssimpsysplanforcaoct2012.pdf

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  10. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Scott,
    If the unions want to put leather on the ground then more power to them. Obviously you haven’t done much research into the subject but I will attempt to clarify why it is bad for a representative government to be controlled by entities that are so reliant on huge sums of money to compete for public office. Here are four simple reasons without getting into to many stats, links, and other issues.
    1) Representatives use anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3 of their work hours dialing for dollars.
    2) If huge sums of money are needed the logical place to get that money is where huge sums of money has been accumulated. Large contributions from big business and wealthy individuals come with strings attached, which turns into cronyism and bloated overreaching government that represents accumulated wealth not 99.5% of Americans.
    3)With the power of funding of the two parties then regulations are put in place by big industry to stomp out any competition from small and medium size businesses.
    Also up to 90% of our current legislation is being written by lobbyists not our representatives. This is happening for two reasons; that is one of the strings that are attached to large contributions to party/ reps/ candidates and the other is reps and staff are two busy trying to raise enough money to compete in their next campaign they don’t have the time to write decent thoughtful legislation.
    4)The revolving door between private/ public sector then becomes prevalent. It is called capturing. Industry reps get the funding of big business to run for public office or public officials along with their office staffers negotiate lobbying positions when they leave office. When they leave the public sector their little black book of friends on important committees comes with them. I think for staffers of House members it starts around $250k a year and for House Reps is $500k and for Senator it starts $1-2 million. There are way to many examples but I will give a couple, one Republican and one Democrat.
    Republican Billy Tauzin who was the master mind behind Medicare Part D that was a 10 year $2-3 trillion hand over to the pharmaceutical industry. He got an exemption from the lobbying waitlist and went to Pharma. Then with his connections brokered a deal with Obama behind closed doors to keep the provision of Medicare not being able to negotiate drug prices in ACA.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-29/tauzin-s-11-6-million-made-him-highest-paid-health-law-lobbyist.html
    Democrat Tom Daschle was Senate Majority leader and now is an unofficial lobbyists for the firm Alston & Bird. Using his connections and power of the purse to get access to people in powerful positions that you are I cannot.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/23/health/policy/23daschle.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

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  11. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George, Scott, and Gregory,
    What you are not connecting is the growth of government is due to the big business special interest money. It is called cronyism. When we hear a bipartisan bill that is when all of ears and eyes should perk up because those are when both parties are pushing through massive growth in government and in almost all cases those who profit most are private industry thus wealthy individuals.

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  12. Walt Avatar

    Doc.,,, this is what I mentioned last night about ECO litigation.
    I will poke Dougy with my pointy stick later.
    Nonprofit, tax exempt groups are making billions of dollars in funding; the majority of that funding is not going into programs to protect people, wildlife, plants, and animals, but to fund more law suits. Ranchers and other citizens are being forced to expend millions of their own money to intervene or participate in these lawsuits to protect their way of life when they have no chance of the same attorney fee recovery if they prevail. In fact, they are paying for both sides of the case–for their defense of their ranch and for the attorney fees for environmental groups receive to sue the federal government to get them off their land. There are also numerous cases where the federal government agrees to pay attorney fees, but the amount paid is hidden from public view.
    … the United States federal government has paid millions in tax dollars to environmental groups to litigate over global warming already. These cases are NOT about whether global warming is or is not a scientific fact, but over timelines and procedures which seem to be impossible for the federal agencies to comply with… and getting paid handsomely to do it. …
    [For instance] In the California litigation regarding the Delta Smelt (the 6-inch minnow that has so adversely impacted California’s Central Valley farmers), the federal court rejected a biological opinion because it “failed to consider” climate change data. …
    Once a species is listed under ESA, the Sierra Club and other environmental groups then use the National Environmental Policy Act (”NEPA”) process to further their view of global warming. …
    Attorney fee awards to environmental groups to continue to sue the federal government is big business… [I]n only 18 of the 50 states, 13 environmental groups have amassed total attorney fees payments of 30 million dollars plus extracting another four million dollars from businesses, all based on payments from federal attorney fee-shifting statutes. The vast majority of these are ESA cases and there are more to come. Recently the Wild Earth Guardians filed a single petition to list 206 species under the ESA, and the CBD [Center for Biological Diversity] has filed a petition to list 225 more species. According to the CBD’s website, this is an exercise in “strategic creative litigation.” There is no way that the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service can make a “scientific” finding on all those 431 species within the 90 day time frame mandated by the ESA, making federal district court litigation (and the payment of attorney fees) inevitable and profitable.
    From
    http://westinstenv.org/sosf/2009/12/31/global-warming-lawsuits-are-a-cash-cow-for-eco-litigious-groups/

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  13. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    I saw a census report on income by county. Santa Clara used to be the #1 county in the nation for income because of silicon valley. Now it is the the county in Virginia that abuts the capitol (I don’t recall the name). The reason— the big money pay outs have shifted from creating technology to lobbying. The number of lobbyists have increased dramatically in the last decade or so. In terms of makers and takers, where do the lobbyists fit in? Is lobbying for special interest legislation a making thing or a taking thing?

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  14. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 1004am – Your reading skills are showing again. RR has decried corporate and union cronyism since its inception in 2007. The record of this blog is longer than the single page you happen to be looking at (over 1,600 posts and 30,000 comments). Brushing up on internet search skills might help avoid these pedagogical embarrassments.
    The Left’s solution to every problem is to add on another layer of government, instead of seeking to limit the quid pro quo the government’s corrupt sleazebags have to sell. Get a grip, all governments have the innate tendency for ineptness, inefficiency, and corruption. Those who promote bigger government are not friends of freedom.

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  15. Jesus Betterman Avatar

    Loks like Gerry Fedor already poked Walt with the pointy stick, and Walt himself is now apparently a flatlander, based on his observations, or maybe just the newest resident of Smartsville. Be sure to wave to Greg as he flies by, if he flies by, doubt he can afford the extra gas.

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  16. Jesus Betterman Avatar

    Here’s MIT’s take on teaching calorimetry, said to be suitable for students aged 12 – 18, and while eventually the narrator fesses up to the lax experimental standards, he never explains (there is no followup video) just how he came up with the real number for calories in a bale of hay.
    http://techtv.mit.edu/collections/mitk12/videos/19213-an-introduction-to-calorimetry

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  17. Walt Avatar

    So ya’ got a sock on both hands this morning.
    I gave you a chance to “#1” but someone beat ya two it.
    Remember what I said about “O” and his skeet shooting?
    A photo finally surfaced.
    http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/mag-pushes-fake-picture-obama-skeet-shooting_698730.html
    And it almost looks legit. But it’s not. LOL!!
    So what do you think of your liar in Chief now?
    Ya had your chance to be “the one” with the photographic goods, but blew it.

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  18. George Rebane Avatar

    Walt 1019am – thanks for that update and expansion. Yes, the people lose doubly when they are also forced to arm their opponents in litigating away their freedoms.
    JoeK 1022am – While an outgrowth of 1st Amend rights, I believe that professional lobbying is a perversion of the legislative process because of the money connection. Non-profit institutional lobbying has been defended on the basis of providing background and supportive research to legislators on pending legislation.
    But I’d rather have the legislators’ ability to do their own legislative research expanded so that they are not so dependent on professional lobbyists working for corporations and unions. (I use ‘union’ here in the larger sense as any organization that seeks to limit/control labor or services in ANY sector of the economy.)
    Bottom line – to the extent that they inhibit the expansion of markets in our economy, the professional lobbying outfits are in the net ‘takers’, even though formally their revenues go into the ‘maker’ column. Lobbying departments of corporations cannot be delegated so easily. But that’s just my view.

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  19. Jesus Betterman Avatar

    I don’t push fake photos, Walt. The President’s official photographer has real images, without a doubt. When Obama’s Official Presidential Library is built, I’m sure you can go look, sometime after 2016, when Hillary or Biden takes over.
    BTW, not so bad a spot to watch the planes from:

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  20. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    George 1055 – I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment with the exception that I put the non-profit think tanks in the same category as lobbyists. The bulk of their donations come from special interests and individuals with axes to grind and we all know that large donations often come with strings attached. As to legislators being able to increase research, that takes time and money. Since most of their time is spent getting re-elected something will have to give elsewhere. Either or both 1) election finance reform: to take money out of the equation (and cronyism) and free up time 2) expanded staff for research: more gov’t spending and pensions, etc.

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  21. Walt Avatar

    You still don’t get it? There is NO pic. of him “shootn’ clay”
    Now if “O” had an “R” next to his name and made the same baled faced lie,
    it would still be running 24/7 on Libby news. But since he’s a Commie
    you and your pals give him a pass.
    BTW,, that pic is even more evidence that the eco gang needs to
    pay their own bills.
    And just to take the wind out of your sails,, I don’t really “need” to work.
    I LIKE to work. I enjoy it.
    There is a term you and your ilk love to disparage. ( ever hear of the “1%”?,, well,, maybe 2 or 3%)
    Just because I made my living messing with Mother nature, does not mean I’m poor.( and NON union even…)
    I’ve been a GOOD capitalist.

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  22. Walt Avatar

    I forwarded the article of the ECO lawsuit scam to The Union.
    NOW to see what happens. If Jeff was still there, this info would surely come to light.
    Now that The Union is more Lefty friendly, I’m not going to hold my breath.
    But we shall see.

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  23. Jesus Betterman Avatar

    Here’s an exercise for you Walt, go find an image of either Bush shooting at the skeet range at Camp David. I found Kennedy and Eisenhower easily, but the Bush’s, not there. BTW, I’m still waiting to see a list from CARB that has my tractor on it as an “engine must be replaced” Can you help me out there? you claim to know this for a fact, so where’s your evidence, you good little capitalist, you. As a capitalist myself, I’ll sell you all my guns for $4,000, such a deal!

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  24. Jesus Betterman Avatar

    “BTW,, that pic is even more evidence that the eco gang needs to
    pay their own bills. ”
    Explain, please. Do you know where the image is, even?

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  25. Walt Avatar

    Bush? Really?? Bush is a known gun nut and hunter.
    The ONLY photo of “O” is with a squirt gun.
    “O” is the one that made the bogus claim to try and
    make it sound he’s pro 2ND. ( never mind that the 2ND has jack sh** to do with hunting and sport shooting)
    I know exactly where that is. ( photo)
    ( future home of a new dam with any luck, and just South of PB bridge. HY20 upper right corner.)
    And if I’m not mistaken, it’s part of that new eco paradise land acquisition.
    ( just off the top of my head)
    And just out of frame is that small dam that kills one or two every year.

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  26. Gregory Avatar

    Doug Keachie, 9:44
    Doug, what you have there is one baby step up from Bill Nye the Science Guy. Middle school science. Did you learn anything?
    To get the full monty, here’s an introduction suitable for a 20 year old in a physical chemistry track:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calorimetry#Basic_classical_calculation_with_respect_to_volume
    If that’s too much, we can always go here again:
    “How to do it”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-4YUHxcIzM

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  27. Jesus Betterman Avatar

    2 miles west of the bridge is the ranch house below, another 3.6 miles to the west is the Daguerre Point Dam. The power house and “new” dam is going to be basically placed on top of that dam.
    http://yubariver.org/daguerre-point-dam-hydropower-project/
    You might want to talk to Greg about whether or not the 2nd applies to hunting and sport shooting. I think he may differ with you on that.

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  28. Gregory Avatar

    “never mind that the 2ND has jack sh** to do with hunting and sport shooting”
    Sorry, Doug Keachie 02:04PM, that’s essentially correct, read DC v. Heller.
    Regarding the adoption of the federalized Common Core standards, it was on August 2, 2010 :
    “The SBE [State Board of Education] adopts the Common Core State Standards, including California specific standards, as recommended by the ACSC. SBE directs CDE staff to develop a plan and timeline for implementation of the standards.”
    At that point, the Change to the new standards was a done deal, though a pig in a poke as the drafts are only due now, to be accepted in a year.

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  29. Ryan Mount Avatar

    So Ryan, shall the Left do the same video with Repubby leaders and the phrase, “tax cut?”
    Sure, I’m not sure it would be as entertaining and annoying though. As funny as some of these are, it underscores the rhetorical techniques that hypnotize us. No wonder why we’re so freaked out.
    http://supercut.org/video/515 (uh…just silly)
    http://supercut.org/video/157 (“Some people say” straw man)
    http://supercut.org/video/151 (Terrorism)

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  30. George Rebane Avatar

    RyanM 312pm – Not sure what you make of the videos you link. From the out of context staccato editing of the targeted word or phrase, I couldn’t really make out any “rhetorical techniques that hypnotize us.” Give us the teaching points.

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  31. Jesus Betterman Avatar

    Sorry Greg, as a practical matter in the day to day classroom experience, the California Standards still rule, as the other stuff isn’t even close to shovel ready. As proof of your previous failures as well, you STILL haven’t found any middle schools with labs set up under either Common Core or California Standards, anywhere. Keep on failing at that, it should keep you busy for quite some time, and piling up ever so VAGUE verbiage as in your last post, doesn’t hide that fact, that you are totally misrepresenting today’s California classrooms. Where are the lesson plans? you seem to have misplaced them.

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  32. Jesus Betterman Avatar

    For those not wanting to be mislead by Greg’s next sales pitch, those would be labs in middle schools where students are taught Scotsman Black’s discoveries concerning heat and calories, involving the actual lab equipment (a bomb calorimeter) I and so many others used in 11th grade high school chemistry, after having passed first year algebra, typically taken in 9th or in some cases, 8th grade.

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  33. Jesus Betterman Avatar

    ” I can have a gun, like I can have a computer, a book, or a pen and paper.”
    “”never mind that the 2ND has jack sh** to do with hunting and sport shooting”
    Sorry, Doug Keachie 02:04PM, that’s essentially correct, read DC v. Heller.”
    Make up your mind, Greg, and keep on with your efforts to topple governments with computer, gun, book, and pen.

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  34. Ryan Mount Avatar

    Give us the teaching points.
    The effectiveness of repetition? I tend to think that this leads to a kind of collective sociological Stockholm Syndrome, but that’s kind of a far out notion.
    It doesn’t always work like with Al Gore’s dumbass lock box thing.
    But more specifically, these repetitive rhetorical techniques are deliberate. It’s a well known practice in marketing. What make President Bush’s speech so interesting and effective, is how well it repetitively crafts a subliminal narrative in 2002: terror/terrorism, followed by Iraq/Iraqi, and then lastly Weapons. I am not one of those who believe President Bush II was a dummy.
    Anyhow, critical thinkers pick up on these rhetorical tropes quickly and disregard them. But to this nation’s disembrained, they leave such a speech at a minimum in a state of dis-ease, or worse, scared to the bejesus. And when we’re scared, we’ll let people get away with murder…so to speak. Or not so to speak, but literally.
    Why bother giving speeches at all if they’re not going to be effective? And why not employ every cynical rhetorical technique to win the audience over?

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  35. Gregory Avatar

    “Make up your mind, Greg, and keep on with your efforts to topple governments with computer, gun, book, and pen.”
    Yet another complete lie about what I’ve written. Keachie, you either have no brain or no shame.
    The middle school understanding I was discussing was yours. How’s that effort of yours to show the IPCC what they need to do to get everything right? Have you figured out yet that classic calorimetry has virtually nothing to do with the climate energy flow determinations?

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  36. Gregory Avatar

    Ryan, of course, the dumbass thing about the lockbox shtick was that letting the Feds spend the excess while pretending to pay interest has always been the design, and it was less dumbass (or is that Dumas?) as it is lying to the American public who have fallen and can’t get up. Democrats have generally had a hard time standing up to the greedy geezers (Thank you, Alan Simpson) who don’t want to be a burden to their own kids and grandkids… they want to be a burden to everyone else’s kids and grandkids. Why sell the house and the cars for a last gasp treatment that can be expected to lengthen their life by three weeks when Medicare will pay for it?
    We need to learn to die gracefully when it’s time. Maybe Keachie can show the way.

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  37. George Rebane Avatar

    Re the ongoing pissing match in this comment stream. I once had a colleague in business who very effectively communicated when a meeting went off the rails in an off-topic direction and started wasting everyone’s time. He took out a large button that read ‘Pardon me, but you have me confused with someone who gives a shit.’ and pinned it on his lapel. It worked.

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  38. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George,
    Your remark “Your reading skills are showing again.”
    My reading skills are just fine, I just choose to reject the premise you frame the dialogue. To make the claim your position is very clear is laughable. Your posts and opinions are about as transparent as a brick wall. One needs a thesaurus handy to read your posts and a decoder key comprehend your positions.
    Cronyism just as the expansion of the federal government has exploded since the tax laws, trade policies, and destruction of the labor movement to push back has taken place during the Reagan Revolution.
    Check out the numbers and do so sitting down so you don’t hit your head to hard when you faint.
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/05/24/who-is-the-smallest-government-spender-since-eisenhower-would-you-believe-its-barack-obama/

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  39. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George,
    I guess I should clarify a certain part of my statement against your unclear positions on specific issues. I don’t care about the BS you put out there I understand your philosophy and positions because they have a centuries out track record. Your positions are and were the same of those who were loyal to the crown and England itself. The English called the revolutionaries fighting the occupying forces terrorists and justified killing them as killing less than human or less than English. I am pretty sure that is your position about Muslims in Afhganistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Yemen, and so on. If I am wrong please in layman terms explain your position, you know the way you talk not the way you write.

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  40. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Ben, the biggest business in the US is the govt and it’s growing by leaps and bounds. You don’t like lobbyists, but the lobbying by govt outdoes the private ones. Wash DC and the surrounding areas are booming with wealth. What does that area do for us? And your answer is to grow govt even larger. And to censor people and restrict our freedoms. If the fed govt followed the Constitution, we wouldn’t have one tenth the cronyism and corruption we have. More govt equals more corruption and less freedom.

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  41. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 728pm – Your lecturing me on cronyism, given the standing record of this blog on cronyism, sustains my 1024am comment. And your claimed difficulty in understanding what I write brings up other obvious assessments, but I will not go there. (For example, your second paragraph is a remarkable non-sequitor, contributing only a random tangent to the thread of this discussion.) Were things here beneath your intellectual standards, one would wonder why bother yourself.
    BTW, in a reasoned debate, if you reject your opponent’s premises, then you state that explicitly and the debate moves to resolving the ‘premise level’ of the participants, else the remainder of the debate is nothing but talking past each other.
    The Rick Ungar article is phenomenal in its filtered look at how/why the 2008 budget came into being. Both parties (including the completely Democrat Congress) supported it and its TARP financial industry ‘salvage’ provision. Ungar manfully attempts to save/balance his introductory claim at the end when he describes what Obama did subsequently and the new financially ruinous course he has set for the country. The article is a balance piece in addition to being a red herring for Forbes’ readership as can be seen from its comment stream.
    Getting back to your reading skills re your 748pm. If you can’t make out my position on Islam from ‘Of Ragheads and Racism’ (link), then we are wasting each others time. I have made a good faith effort responding to you and your expressed ideology because you are the closest thing to a full-blown communist on these pages, and RR readers always deserve the broadest ideological spectrum in our debates. But please save yourself and me the standard leftwing diagnostic of ‘I know what you really think.’ – it should be clear to the casual reader that you may not have a clue.
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2010/02/of-ragheads-and-racism.html

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  42. Jesus Betterman Avatar

    Hunting and sport shooting sharpen your targeting skills. You dishonor the 2nd Amendment by becoming the Irregulars Who Couldn’t Shoot Straight. BTW, Walt, on the issue of CSS, any idea how much targeting goes on when you take photographs? One big advantage, the rounds are free.

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  43. L Avatar
    L

    Um, bad news, guys: Absent evidence to the contrary, looks like “Joe Koyote” is also just another Keachie sock puppet. Or I am the only one who’s noticed? L

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  44. Jesus Betterman Avatar

    JK is not DK, but don’t feel bad about it. Until George announced otherwise, I thought L was just one of ggoodknight’s socks. That was he on The Union.

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  45. Gregory Avatar

    There are no “ggoodknight” socks, he’s always been visible, and that was the only username I ever used at TheUnion blog that had a score or more of Keachie mini-Me’s coming and going. In short, if there was an “L” at The Union that wasn’t me, contrary to yet another defamatory claim by Doug Keachie/J**** B******** here.
    I had asked George a pointed question about the traces of DK and JK posts that seemed to indicate it wasn’t the same dude.
    The news today about Numbers is simple and not very confusing… year over year GDP contracted last quarter.

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  46. Ryan Mount Avatar

    Zerohedge’s Tyler Durden sums up the most recent GDP numbers with a graph that even the most disembrained US citizen will understand:
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-01-30/chart-quarter-312-billion-debt-adds-negative-5-billion-gdp
    As one snarky commentator, who is obviously after my own heart, said: Ludicrous Speed!
    It does appear underneath the numbers [chortles] that consumer spending was in an anemic positive territory (+1.5%) and business cap expenditures were up but equally weak at +1.1%, but it might be time to think about that double-dipper we’ve all been planning for. But never mind, the casino is still up for you Boomers. How long do you think the Fed can keep interest rates low and inflation down by sopping it up with bond purchases? And what about these unemployment numbers?
    The answer seems to be that [S]omething rotten in the State of Denmark. Something at the core of the economy is very ill.

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  47. George Rebane Avatar

    RyanM 949am – Agreed about illness at the core. My position continues to be the overhang of debt (along with its rapid growth) and artificially low interest rates that will not be sustained. What will wreck all planning and preparations in both public and private sectors will be when the Fed loses control of interest rates. When debt service cost to GDP (or any other basis like the federal budget) starts soaring, then look out below. Things will come unglued in a hurry, and there will be little time for intervention, let alone prevention. As I’ve said many times, no one wants to plot or talk about the only ratio that now matters – debt service to GDP. Thoughts?

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  48. Ryan Mount Avatar

    The reason the GDP has slipped into negative territory, I’m told, is due to a lack of government spending and high manufacturing inventories. Specifically defense spending which is lagging.
    Generally economists seem somewhat dismissive about this quarterly dip, blaming as I mentioned above both smaller defense expenditures and interesting high inventories. IOW, we wouldn’t be in negative territory if we picked up on defense spending. Thoughts on that? Me? I think these are the sniffles st the beginning of a financial flu.
    I realize that these observations are obviously short-term thinking and that we certainly have long term structural fiscal problems. (Even the NYT’s Princeton bearded potato admits that).
    As far as speed of the implosion? I would like it to be fast and abrupt. I know that’s not a popular thing to say. But I want this fiscal 8th grade dance over with so we can get on to better things. But my guess is is won’t be quick. It will be long, and drawn out.

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  49. George Rebane Avatar

    RyanM 1059am – Agreed. Even though the recovery will be long and drawn out, I do believe that the plunge will be very fast.
    Also, I continue my low esteem for the ‘economists and analysts’ whose predictions are always sought by the know-nothing lamestream, that then reports their inevitable errors with no evident surprise. In the current case, the economists predicted 12Q4 growth at 1%, and it came in at -0.1% – that is an 1,100% error. And they do this with a frequency that would be alarming in any other field.
    But the main takeaway is that these clowns continue drawing steady salaries from their employers year after year. I’m still looking for some utility we derive from the country’s quantitative economists. Perhaps someone could help here.

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