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January 2013
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George Rebane

The importance and magnitude of EVERY social problem lies in its numbers.  If you don’t understand the numbers and how they relate, all you can do is emote about the problem.


BillGatesRR
has argued from the start that applying the tools of the systems sciences is critical to the solutions of all social problems (see end notes below).  For obvious reasons, also presented and discussed in these pages, the Left has been the major opponent of bringing analytics and numeracy to bear on social issues – this for the simple reason that it deflates their emotion based fuzzy rhetoric which they use to promote their collectivism.

Well, now we have no less than Bill Gates coming out in a major piece promoting quantitative “measurement” for solving worldwide problems ranging from high infant mortality to the classroom evaluation of teachers.  His proposals contain absolutely no new ideas, but what is important is that the world’s most famous billionaire and philanthropist is going public with ‘new’ notions the youngest of which is about fifty years old.

In his ‘My Plan to Fix The World’s Biggest Problems’ there is no plan presented, save the exhortation to start measuring and recording things to do with the problem that you’re trying to solve.

For reasons unknown, Gates does not make clear the difference between a utility function or figure of merit (FOM), that would serve as an objective or goal or to define ‘good’, and the measured attributes that go into the FOM.  Perhaps it’s because the piece was written for broad audiences who would be confused by such nuances.  However, regular RR readers should not suffer similarly.

A clarifying example might serve here.  Consider buying a car from the many models offered – which one to buy?  To keep it simple, the only attributes you consider important are its top speed and cost.  Somehow you have to trade off these contentious attributes since the faster cars cost more.  The tradeoff is performed in your formulation of the cars’ FOM which combines the numerical values of each car’s speed and cost.  Then you can collect the numbers for the cars, calculate their FOM values, and pick the one that for you yields the maximum utility.  (For you phormulaphiles, a typical FOM formulation here might be FOM = weight*(mph top speed) + (1 – weight)*(K$ cost), where weight is a number between 0 and 1 that reflects your speed/cost tradeoff.)

And here’s rub and the benefit – the adoption and expression of every FOM or utility function is completely subjective for whatever problem you’re solving.  The FOM captures your values, judgments, experience, likes/dislikes, and even constraints on what can be done.  And such explicit FOMs can do the same for a government, community, or a corporation (business has been using them for decades).  Gates is finally saying to America that we have to approach problems with systems thinking if we want to make progress.  Continuing with the Left’s approach of “issues activism” based on selected anecdotes and fuzzy emotionalism, while rejecting data and a common understanding of ‘good’, will not accomplish much, and has gotten us to where we are now.  (That last italicized bit I added because Bill Gates couldn’t.)

The belated call for such quantitative approaches is encouraging, even though it might turn out to be just more relieving yourself over the windward gunnel.  I hope not.  Read the article.

End Notes:  For a brief summary of RR postings related to reasoning and systems thinking, I have culled the following short list.  More can be found filed in RR’s ‘Science’ and ‘Science Snippets’ categories.

‘Economic Development in Nevada County’
‘Systems Science Rules (almost)!’
‘Healthcare Utility Metric with Scriptural Underpinnings’
‘A Thoughtful View of Climate Change’
‘Why Reason Fails’

Posted in , , , ,

167 responses to “Numbers get a (confused) boost”

  1. Gregory Avatar

    George, I’d be surprised if Gate’s born again data collection doesn’t have Windows phone sales at its heart, but in your focusing in on the silliness of treating measurement and evaluation as being anything new, you missed the focus Gates was taking:
    Gates was talking about governmental enterprises. Public health. Education. It really is a new idea to measure outcomes and use quantitative tools to make decisions and allocating resources. If it gets traction it will exist until a politician has to make a decision that pits their reelection against doing what the numbers suggest.

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  2. George Rebane Avatar

    Gregory 338pm – Sorry for being so obtuse, but the first paragraph was supposed to make the governmental connection quite clear. That is the only place, where governments deal with social issues, that we run into opposition from the Left in using quantitative utility and objective measurements. I repeat the government connection again in the second to the last paragraph. Apologies for not saying it clearly enough for you to understand.

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  3. Gregory Avatar

    Sorry, George, but I don’t think “social issues” automatically connotes government action regarding social issues, and right wing politicians are just as bad, it’s just that they have a different set of sacred cows.

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  4. Gregory Avatar

    If you can find Gates or his Foundation speaking candidly regarding how effective their educational social spending has been, please do share it.

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  5. Walt Avatar

    Catch the latest? “O” claims to go skeet shooting all the time. Really?
    I have yet to see a picture with a real gun in his hands.
    Maybe VP Joe, will pipe up and claim he plucked and cleaned a full limit
    of that “pidgin”.
    The lies never stop.

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  6. George Rebane Avatar

    Gregory 402pm – be advised that when I write about dealing with social issues, I’m talking about the government doing that using tax dollars, not your local church or foundations using private monies. And my making that interpretation in reading other commentaries has yet to lead me astray in my understanding of what was being discussed.
    404pm – Will do; and likewise share with us what you find.

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  7. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Bill Gates trying to take a populist position is as pathetic as trying to label him a humanitarian.
    Three different stories about three different companies from three different papers on three different continents talking about the same exploitation of human beings. I say FU to all major large corporations who exploit their workers and those who profit most off of these immoral practices.
    Microsoft
    Bill Gates
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/microsoft/7597344/Microsoft-accused-of-using-teenage-slave-labour-to-build-Xboxes-in-China.html
    Apple
    Steve Jobs
    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/11/technology/foxconn-said-to-use-forced-student-labor-to-make-iphones.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
    Walmart
    Walmart heirs
    http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2012-12-08/south-asia/35688472_1_garment-factory-tazreen-fire-officials

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  8. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 549pm – I was hoping that you would weigh in on this posting. And readers may now evaluate how a hard leftwinger addresses the issue of using analytics as a reasonable basis for making public policy. Your dancing the progressive sidestep on this is a significant contribution to the record. Thank you.

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  9. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Well George,
    In usual form your response sounds academic but really is nonsense. Yes, my analysis of the situation is those who can write off huge tax breaks at the same time market the economic action as humanitarian is disgusting. All of the above examples I gave could have kept factories in the US paying $30 an hour wages with good benefits and still have been billionaires. But that isn’t the business model in America anymore, which by the way we have exported to the rest of the world large corporations in the farce of Free Trade/ Globalization.

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  10. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 622pm – Exactly. And none of this was the topic of my post or the cited Bill Gates’ article.

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  11. Gregory Avatar

    Ben,
    Just what did Gates write that fits any definition whatsoever of “populist”?

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  12. Russ Steele Avatar

    BenE
    Did you even read about the programs that Bill Gates is sponsoring in third world nations? I think that you have let your hatred of corporations, which are made up of thousands of individual stock holders, blind you to the real nature of the Gates Foundations work in third world countries.

    Like

  13. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    I seem to remember stating clearly here more than two years ago that I support performance based budgeting for governmental agencies including setting specific goals and targets, measuring results, and sunsetting programs, legislation, and agencies if they do not meet their goals. I even supported specific legislation and a ballot proposition that would have required that at the state level. So this is one person, who George would call a liberal, who supports measurement and a systems approach. The little nonprofit I work for uses just such project performance metrics to model outcomes in advance, measure against goals, and adaptively manage to meet desired results.

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  14. Ryan Mount Avatar

    I like the idea of testing and measuring the effectiveness of government. But I think that’s the easy part it seems. Well, easier part. We can just have one of the budgetary offices to hire some optimistic post-grad Millennials audit everything. The hard part is getting rid of deadweight programs and spending, especially as in California, when it’s written into the State Constitution via the initiative process. I bring up the initiative process because I believe is really a bad idea to legislate somewhat whimsically from the ballot box. Call me a Conservative, I guess.
    The other tricky issue is the first part of this process: the agenda setting. This leads to spending and then to the deadweight. In California, we have a Democrat majority and the electorate via the Initiative process pulling our government’s fiscal marionette strings. So most (all?) of our State’s financial wounds are self-inflicted by these factions. (Think Prop 13 followed by Prop 98 to “fix” that) So also call me cynical in that I betcha even if we test and attempt to retire deadweight, that we will find a way to make sure that our precious pet program can’t go away.

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  15. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    Ryan, I agree with on the initiative process, although it would be admittedly hard to eliminate at this point without a statewide constitutional convention (which I also supported). The most likely scenario would be requiring that initiatives be pre-reviewed fro conflicts with other areas of the state constitution, that they be reviewed independently for budgetary consequences, and that any initiative that increases the cost of government be required to identify the funding source that will support that activity. This would probably eliminate more than 70% of initiatives, saving the process for the truly big policy decisions that were the original intent of the progressives when they amended the state constitution to create initiative, referendum and recall in the early 20th century.
    To the difficulty of measuring progress: the process can be considerably simplified if the idea of creating measurable objectives is incorporated up front when crafting policies, programs, and legislation. There will still be some things that cannot be measured, and some process to identify and agree on those, but we could measure more than 80% of what government does in my opinion.
    Re: agenda setting, of course these will still be political processes, as they should be–we are a democracy after all–but the performance review would create a level of transparency that is rarely seen now, and deadweight will be much harder to support if it can be shown, for example, that subsidizing water for cotton through the state water project actually creates little advantage for net agricultural exports, and the water could be better used for urban or manufacturing applications.
    Finally, I would support an automatic sunset on every new policy, program, and governmental agency and a regular review process to measure them. Sunsets would vary of course, depending on the specifics.

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  16. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    Should read “I agree with you.”

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  17. Gregory Avatar

    Should the metric for assessing the efficacy of restrictive gun laws be the gun homicide rate, or violent crime rates in general?

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  18. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    Greg, good question. Establishing metrics is certainly would not be easy. I would recommend that certain issues not be subject to these performance metrics, at least to begin with; since gun laws can be local, state or federal there are a number of externalities, which would need to be taken into account. Federal court cases would eventually predominate in cases where a constitutionally identified right is at stake, so a sober analysis of the current legal definition of that right would be necessary to establish metrics. I don’t want to get diverted by the gun debate though.

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  19. Ryan Mount Avatar

    Well, I guess my point is that due to legislative “overhead” we’ve created in this State especially since we implemented the Initiative process, it’s going to be difficult to un-do the deadweight when we’ve written spending directly into the Constitution in many cases as entitlements or mandates.
    Not to mention the metrics (not only for guns but a variety of topics) Greg mentions. That dovetails with my agenda observations. He who holds the conch, gets to speak which not necessarily congruent with the rights of minorities. (minorities in the general sense)
    I guess in a nutshell, the incentive will be to hard-wire initiatives into the Constitution with no sunset date. So the first order of business, it would seem to me, is that we need to disband the initiative process. And I don’t see that happening anytime soon. It’s a pipe dream.

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  20. George Rebane Avatar

    In the application of such a systems approach to policy making, I would think that its adherents would be the first to decry California’s AB32, and the havoc that it is wreaking across the state. Could the attempt to rescind AB32 not be some low hanging fruit that would quickly demonstrate the benefits of this approach in concrete and quantitative ways? Maybe that could get the ball rolling with a twofer, getting rid of (ameliorating?) a bad law and effectively marketing the process.

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  21. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    Apparently the “systems approach to things” involves picking and choosing what you will and won’t measure, and thus use as factors in your analysis.
    “Clever people and grocers, they weigh everything,” ~Zorba the Greek~
    As long as Group A says, “Use this, not that,” and Group B says, “Use that, not this,” you’ve simply added one more layer of BS to the discussion. “Piled Higher and Drier,” comes to mind, and Walt, that’s the long form of PhD in some circles, in case you didn’t know.
    It just might be that the efficacy of restrictive guns laws is zero, regardless of which rate is used. You may be altogether asking for the wrong solution, to a problem of stress and psychosis in our dog eat dog, no holds barred, kick them when they are down, capitalist free market society. Could it be that holding those values as core to the USA culture, is the real source of gun violence?
    System analysis in simple and even somewhat complex engineering situations, where all is determined by physics, works most of the time, but the Japanese loosened their safety standards to get those batteries packs on through, and like the O rings on the shuttle, the desires of humans led to failures in the real world. The desire known as boundless greed, has short circuited the safety of the social fabric, and until you fix that, you are going to have your 10,000 plus murder rates via gunfire nationwide, forever. And with it, more Sandy Hooks.
    Good luck, you’ll need it.

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  22. TheMikeyMcD Avatar

    George, a progressive who even hits at the enormity of the debt they have (immorally) saddled upon us would be an admission to their guilt in the scheme. Ain’t gonna happen.
    I wholeheartedly believe that bureaucrats need to have ‘skin in the game’ (thanks Taleb). Bureaucrats should have openly stated objectives and their jobs (and pensions) at risk based on the metrics used to ‘grade’ such objectives. Again, ain’t gonna happen.
    I love the ‘sunset laws’ concept. Again, ain’t gonna happen.
    BTW, Bill Gates did far more good for humans as an entrepreneur than he ever will as a philanthropist.

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  23. George Rebane Avatar

    DougK 919am – Doug, you truly are a gem. As predictable as the sunrise.
    Mikey 928am – Agreed on Gates, and won’t bet against your prognostications. But what really is a remarkable ongoing circus is the progressives’ claim to be the enlightened ones who promote everything scientific, when in truth they fear science like the plague because it continually goes crosswise to their ideology. As another nearby example, witness DougK’s 919am.

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  24. Gregory Avatar

    We have a call to eschew rationality from the usual irrational poster; what a surprise.
    I would think figuring out the metrics for any law purporting to benefit a public good, including reducing violent crime, should be front and center when touting any change. It’s easy: is decreasing the rate of gun violence, or the overall violence rate, most important?
    “During the offense that brought them to prison, 15% of State inmates and 13% of Federal inmates carried a handgun, and about 2%, a military-style semiautomatic gun.”
    In other words, 1 in 50 of inmates in the US possessed a “military-style” gun when they committed their crime.
    http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/guns.cfm
    Then there’s the use of language.. The proponents of the Feinstein approach have been labeling “military-style” semiautomatic, one shot per trigger pull guns as battlefield weapons that, especially when equipped with magazines larger than 10 (7 in New York) are only good for killing lots of people in a short amount of time. At the same time, the civilian Department of Homeland Security has let a Request for Proposal for 7000 “Personal Defense Weapons” that are fully automatic machine guns that shoot the same ammo as the Shady Hook weapon, with 30 round magazines.
    What is more destructive, a “Personal Defense Weapon” or a semiautomatic “Assault Weapon”? I’d say the PDW is more destructive, including to the language. A PDW is just a compact Assault Rifle, to use the military designation of a select fire machine gun.
    I don’t own any guns that are covered by any existing or proposed US ‘assault weapons’ legislation though, I must say, if it wasn’t for the fact they’ve skyrocketed in price in the current buying frenzy, I might go out and buy one just to tick some people off. DiFi, Schumer, Obama and Biden have ignited a perfect storm in guns and ammo sales, with many guns and just about every type of ammunition currently being unavailable, flying off the shelves as quickly as it arrives.

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  25. Paul Emery Avatar

    Since everyone is gooing about Bill Gates I thought it would be a good opportunity to review his solutions to global warming, which he believes is real Here you go:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-gates/why-we-need-innovation-no_b_430699.html
    “We don’t really grasp the scale of the problem we’re facing,” Gates tells me in his office overlooking Lake Washington in Seattle. “The right goal is not to cut our carbon emissions in half. The right goal is zero.”
    Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-miracle-seeker-20101028#ixzz2JINAnG2f
    Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook

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  26. Gregory Avatar

    “your argument does not address the notion that having such a gun is perhaps something of an incentive to commit a crime?”
    That is a common unstated assumption of people who espouse restrictions on the ability of non-government employees to legally own guns: just “having” the gun is an incentive or inducement to commit a crime.

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  27. Ryan Mount Avatar

    As a side note, I’m relatively convinced that our current (modern) pro-gun/2nd Amendment advocacy has it’s genesis in the late 1960’s Black Panther movement. I find this prospect both fascinating and ironic to some degree.
    http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/308608/
    But to Greg’s point, when it comes down to language, that’s all it gonna take to divide our citizens into those that have weapons, and those who don’t by deliberately equivocating over the definition of what a gun(assault rifle) is. And with regards to the agenda, reflecting my concerns above, he that controls the agenda, controls the language and its terms. And then by extension, how we think and act about/on it.
    Which is why these bureaucratic and legislative end-arounds on gun regulation are so misguided. Because the 2nd Amendment exists, we need to deal with that directly. And if we don’t like it, we can change it or get rid of it. So why not do that? What’s the hold up?

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  28. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    Going into a liquor store with overwhelming firepower probably seems a safer bet than going in with the knife, hatchet, or hammer, so often recommended as the criminal’s alternative to an military style rifle. That’s what I would call an incentive to commit a crime with such a weapon. the more of them out there, the more will be stolen, and the more will be used. It’s that simple.

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  29. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    Here are some numbers to crunch. What do these numbers tell us about what is going on in America? Between 1979 and 2011: the top 1% of wage earners saw their income increase 134%, the 95-99% a 57% increase, and the 90-95% a 36% increase. The other 90% of Americans saw their incomes increase 14.5%. During this same time period worker productivity increased by 69% while their wages increased only 6.5%. Compared to the 1950s, the wealthy have had their income increase by a factor of 20 while their taxes have gone down by a factor of 3. So we have increased productivity but virtually stagnant income for working folks coupled with a large increase in income and decrease in taxes for the wealthy. Between 2000 and 2008 half of the manufacturing jobs in America moved off shore. (income numbers based on US census data).

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  30. Gregory Avatar

    “Since everyone is gooing about Bill Gates”
    Hardly, Paul. While Bill’s Pretty Good Software Company has made a few, including Bill, rich beyond the dreams of Avarice, success at marketing Windows doesn’t endow him with more insight into climate and atmospheric physics than anyone else.
    His Foundation has a history of running with the causes du jour of the sorts of people who gravitate towards working in “non profit” philanthropies. Small schools was one that has apparently been abandoned…
    http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/05/01/back-to-school-for-the-billionaires.html

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  31. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    And George, you really shouldn’t have to be persuaded by your advisers:
    From “The Last king of Scotland”
    Idi Amin I want you to tell me what to do!
    Garrigan You want ME to tell YOU what to do?
    Amin Yes, you are my advisor. You are the only one I can trust in here. You should have told me not to throw the Asians out, in the first place!
    Garrigan I DID!
    Amin But you did not persuade me, Nicholas. You did not persuade me!

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  32. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    I posted a longer post and of course it didn’t stick. So I will try and recover it or recreate it.
    I did read the article and what the criminal Gates is proposing. Once again we are asking the wrong questions. It isn’t up to the developed world to throw scraps in the guise of “humanitarian” aid to the nations that have been raped and plundered of their natural wealth by sociopath individuals and oppressive nations.
    The fact Bill Gates published a solution to the world problems falsely puts him in the realm of a humanitarian. When criminal business minds put forward ideas on how to help the people that their whole business career exploited is an insult and should be viewed with great skepticism. Did either of you read the article? So lets ask the bigger question of imperialism and the long term affects of the practice on the continent of Africa. The poorest nations Mr. Gates is pretending to care about have had their natural resources plundered, their natural rights trampled, their water polluted, land stolen, and the ability to live a free life oppressed for centuries. I think to address these issues should be the first thing in “helping” the continent.
    Africa is a perfect example “Creative Destruction”. Destroying an intact system that has been evolving slowly for millions of years and replacing it with a system that doesn’t replenish what was taken. That is theft in all other accounts except in the business world, why? Then that destruction creates waste that is invasive creating an entire new system. If creative destruction is allowed to go on long enough in free market economic system the society that is created should see a gradual rise in standard of living through a rise of productivity and better products, work hours shortened as wages increase, and less physical labor intense jobs. That isn’t how it has worked because those who sit in the top economic/ political 1% have secured their wealth and power through a very lopsided redistribution of wealth off long-term exploitation of labor and raping of the land. The so called Makers or the biggest welfare kings and thieves among us, but they sit atop and make the laws so their immoral and natural right violating behavior is “legal” in this upside down system.
    This act of creative destruction is nothing new; it has taken place since the first society came into being. That region is suffering the same type of destruction today as it did 6,000 years ago. Energy of Gilgamesh was wood and they devastated that resource. Today energy sources, oil and natural gas, are coveted so much so that the US along with other traditionally oppressive nations will put sanctions, illegal bombing campaigns, and illegally invade Iraq killing millions over a two-decade period. Please tell me how that is factored into your great Free Market model? The criminal Bill Gates should shut his trap and go learn about how to live without destruction of the natural environment from the very third world citizens he has exploited.
    I have already posted about Microsoft immoral labor practices, since that isn’t a concern at RR I will put legal actions against the company and its Chief Executive/ Chairperson. This should make your competition bones shiver but I doubt it will.
    2000
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/700875.stm
    Microsoft has been found guilty of anti-competitive behaviour, but Bill Gates says he is confident that appeal courts will throw out the verdict.
    2004
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3563697.stm
    Software giant Microsoft must pay a fine of 497m euros ($613m; £331m) for abusing its dominant market position, the European Commission has ordered.
    2008
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7392949.stm
    Microsoft has appealed against a 899m euros ($1.4bn; £680.9m) fine given for defying sanctions imposed on it for anti-competitive behaviour.
    Microsoft Guilty in US
    http://www.wired.com/politics/law/news/2000/04/35378
    “Microsoft has illegally crushed innovative competitors and harmed consumers. The company has shown its contempt for any court-imposed changes in its conduct,”
    I will stop there to let you digest or project all your insecurities at me personally instead of addressing the issues and concerns I have outlined.

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  33. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    To finish the thought ” It isn’t up to the developed world to throw scraps in the guise of “humanitarian” aid to the nations that have been raped and plundered of their natural wealth by sociopath individuals and oppressive nations.”
    What makes the developed nations at all qualified to tell those regions how to get out of the miserable quality of life that we have created through our unsustainable and immoral practices? What we are seeing play itself out is the cancer stages of capitalism of running out of resources and places to steal wealth from to redistribute it to the same old global top 1%.

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  34. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    On guns and causes and statistics, here’s a nice image to sum up some of what we know, from a respected medical journal. MD’s and PhD’s abound on these pages:

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  35. Walt Avatar

    A little pathetic if you ask me Dougy.
    Don’t you have some photo shop work to do?
    There is not ONE photo of “O” with a shotgun
    in his hands skeet shooting, that he claims ” he
    does all the time.”
    So just which Libby nitwit staged that photo?
    She holds the rifle RIGHT handed, with her pistol
    holstered Lefty style. ( never mind the stats are as trumped up
    as the NLRB) Leftys like yourself just hate it when news leaks out
    when a person defends themselves with a gun. Lefty news is real good at NOT reporting those stories.

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  36. Walt Avatar

    Dougy,, Hear the Father of one of the slain children today?
    He blames the lunatic NOT the gun. He even said “there are more than enough gun laws on the books.”
    I’m sure the likes of MSNBC and CNN will NOT run that story.
    Just like the blackout on Sen. “(D) Perv “. And like I figured, that news
    would be buried deeper since it came out Friday. A LIB news reporter had
    the chance. But not ONE question to Sen. Perv on the FBI investigation of him.
    But if a low level repub got caught with an unloaded gun, and even dismantled,
    encased in military grade Lucite in his checked baggage, that would overshadow
    Sen “Perv”.

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  37. Gregory Avatar

    I see the Keachie is hitting the fan again.
    Ben, one of my favorite Microsoft quotes was recounted by Bob Metcalfe, the inventor of Ethernet and founder of 3Com, which used to be a major player in networking before it disappeared. At one time, they were partnered with Microsoft providing a networked operating system (OS2 Lan Manager). One day, 3Com woke up and found Microsoft was doing networking software, and took most of 3Com’s customer base with it.
    The money quote from Metcalfe was from someone he wouldn’t identify at the time (and maybe since), but it was from someone at Microsoft, I assume either Gates or Steve Ballmer: “You made a fatal error, you trusted us.”
    Classic.

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  38. Walt Avatar

    The peasants are fighting back in Vermont,and our own DIFI
    is fibbing.( and will get away with it as usual)
    http://www.examiner.com/article/sen-feinstein-promotes-gun-ban-on-false-info-vermont-gun-range-bans-police

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  39. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Greg,
    Exactly. That is one of my points with Gates talking about how to help the poor around the world. My guess he some how other than good marketing and public relations will get financial gain from his proposals. Off topic but a another example is Chertoff and the 4th amendment violating radiation scanners used by TSA.
    I know Truthout is a lefty organization but this is the only place I really saw anything about the connection between Chertoff and the profits he gets by the scanners being used in airports. Another classic case of crony capitalism, capturing, and public/ private revolving door?
    http://www.truth-out.org/buzzflash/commentary/item/10102-the-chertoff-connection-body-scanners-are-about-profits-not-protection
    Your quote is referred to about 3/4 of the way through the article.
    “You made a fatal error, you trusted us”
    http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2006/pulpit_20061110_001188.html

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  40. George Rebane Avatar

    JoeK 1047am – Thanks for the cited data. Your data, however, does not include or support the needed information here to evaluate your point. The fraction of federal taxes paid by the upper percentiles has continued to grow. Now I understand that by progressive standards that is neither important nor enough, but it is what it is. Your discussion should branch to the topic of ‘social justice’ under which we could establish your criteria for fairness in how the wealthier pay taxes.
    What also appears to still elude is how to treat and understand productivity data. In the aggregate, worker productivity has gone up, but that hides the skewness of the distribution of workers who are actually the high producers. Most workers are being ‘left behind’ by technology when it comes to production. And to abet the point, it is the wealthier classes who invest in technology development that makes it harder for less skilled workers to compete for jobs then wages. In the last aspect, the wealthy are indeed guilty, should you so wish to charge them.
    But all of that goes to provide more/better goods/services to the consumer at lower prices. And again in the aggregate, the quality of life has been steadily improving for all income quintiles, especially the poorest. However, I do agree that class warfare is a complex undertaking, and I harbor little hope that any of this will stick.

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  41. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 1056am – “It isn’t up to the developed world to throw scraps in the guise of “humanitarian” aid to the nations that have been raped and plundered of their natural wealth by sociopath individuals and oppressive nations.”
    Since only the developed world, whom you dismiss, has “scraps” to throw, who would you have help the less developed countries?
    BTW, I do agree that the way the developed world helps the less developed is in the large hurtful – it feeds them fish without teaching them how to fish. I have posted much on this.
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2010/01/ruminations-19jan2009.html
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2009/03/ruminations-18mar2009.html

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  42. Walt Avatar

    Krauthammer: We have ‘a Statue of Liberty — it’s not a Statue of Equality’
    “I would just caution you about using the word, ‘socialism,’” Krauthammer said. “The reason is it is too broad a term. It encompasses all kinds of socialism, including the nasty totalitarian examples — the Union of Soviet Socialist Republic, Cuba,Korea.”
    “I just would caution you to use the word ‘social democrat’ because that is what he is. … He is not an acolyte of the ‘Communist Manifesto.’ He is in the tradition of the, you know, the quite remarkable and respectable social democrats in Europe. [The] Labor Party, I think, would be a good example, a good counterpart.”
    “The United States is different fundamentally from Europe — historically and culturally and politically. That we put much more emphasis on the individual, on liberty versus equality. There is a reason that in the New York Harbor there’s a Statue of Liberty — it’s not a Statue of Equality.”

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  43. Gregory Avatar

    Ben, you’re forgetting one of the great truths of our age: under capitalism, man exploits man. Under socialism, it’s the other way around.
    I have a choice to buy or not to buy a Microsoft product, and that’s more choice than I’d have if the Ben Emery’s of the world had more power. The last time I directly purchased software from MS was a Win2K disk about 12 years ago, before that, Windows 2.0 circa 1989. A notebook computer came with Win XP five years ago.
    There are opensource packages that work just fine for every application MS publishes that I need. There are a number of ready for primetime linux operating system distributions that are equally free; I don’t know what others use, but Ubuntu makes sense for personal workstations for all but the most lame, and scientificlinux.org is the place to get an industrial strength RedHat-ish distro that is well supported by geeks at CERN and Fermilab.
    The Windows/286 purchase in ’89 was for one and only one feature: it was the only OS that seamlessly handled proportionally spaced word processing and printing, with a best effort to show the same result on the screen.

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  44. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    I see Greg still can’t control certain muscles, they’ve grown much weaker of late, not helped at all by Dr. Rebane’s lax restrictions on obsessive compulsive activities.
    For Walt, are you saying the President of the United States is a liar?
    Here are his own words on the subject, as found in the New Republic:
    “FF: Have you ever fired a gun?
    Yes, in fact, up at Camp David, we do skeet shooting all the time.
    FF: The whole family?
    Not the girls, but oftentimes guests of mine go up there. And I have a profound respect for the traditions of hunting that trace back in this country for generations. And I think those who dismiss that out of hand make a big mistake.
    Part of being able to move this forward is understanding the reality of guns in urban areas are very different from the realities of guns in rural areas. And if you grew up and your dad gave you a hunting rifle when you were ten, and you went out and spent the day with him and your uncles, and that became part of your family’s traditions, you can see why you’d be pretty protective of that.
    So it’s trying to bridge those gaps that I think is going to be part of the biggest task over the next several months. And that means that advocates of gun control have to do a little more listening than they do sometimes.
    FF: Sticking with the culture of violence, but on a much less dramatic scale: I’m wondering if you, as a fan, take less pleasure in watching football, knowing the impact that the game takes on its players.
    I’m a big football fan, but I have to tell you if I had a son, I’d have to think long and hard before I let him play football. And I think that those of us who love the sport are going to have to wrestle with the fact that it will probably change gradually to try to reduce some of the violence. In some cases, that may make it a little bit less exciting, but it will be a whole lot better for the players, and those of us who are fans maybe won’t have to examine our consciences quite as much.
    I tend to be more worried about college players than NFL players in the sense that the NFL players have a union, they’re grown men, they can make some of these decisions on their own, and most of them are well-compensated for the violence they do to their bodies. You read some of these stories about college players who undergo some of these same problems with concussions and so forth and then have nothing to fall back on. That’s something that I’d like to see the NCAA think about.”

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  45. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    George,
    We agree on how the developed world “helps” the undeveloped world. I will expand on your teaching them to fish analogy and this is one of the many conservative ideas that I agree with; Through many NGO’s or even government programs the intent is good but what happens is the end behavior learned is a dependence on the organization or materials that are not readily available. Thus leaving the targeted population in an even worse predicament than before where they were very poor but more self reliant. My brothers NGO is challenging the philosophy I just mentioned and is having great success. The problem they will face is when they strengthen enough local rural communities to return the power of being self reliant by organizing cooperative farming communities they will be threatened or challenged by the middle men whose profits are diminishing. Right now in Cambodia a massive land grab is taking place by banks and those who abuse the good name of micro loans.
    I was there when Obama and US diplomats were in country. The Cambodian government tried unsuccessfully to evicted a whole urban neighborhood for security reasons. There were some very large protests and with the international media there they government backed down temporarily. I saw the cordoned off neighborhoods and some of the protests. I took some pictures (not very good) of the armed security presence in the streets.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/12/us-cambodia-protests-idUSBRE8AB17J20121112

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  46. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    Obviously Walt, you’ve never seen the Tomb Raiders movies. One gun for each hand:
    “She holds the rifle RIGHT handed, with her pistol
    holstered Lefty style.” ~Walt~

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  47. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Greg,
    I guess you didn’t quite grasp the theme of the lost court cases for Microsoft. If it goes unchallenged you don’t have another option. As for man exploits man, what are you talking about when you say the other way around? If reversed it still reads man exploits man.
    So once again Greg and many who hold conservative beliefs reduce every idea to a single individuals ability, that individual is yourself. If you look back at most of my argument if not virtually all of my positions aren’t about my ability but equal ability for all people. The problem of reducing it down to a single individual is the mistake of believing your life is the center of the universe, which creates a bubble of not being able to see the world outside of it.
    http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/28/why-is-european-broadband-faster-and-cheaper-blame-the-governme/
    excerpt
    “If you’ve stayed with friends who live in European cities, you’ve probably had an experience like this: You hop onto their WiFi or wired internet connection and realize it’s really fast. Way faster than the one that you have at home. It might even make your own DSL or cable connection feel as sluggish as dialup.
    You ask them how much they pay for broadband.
    “Oh, forty Euros.” That’s about $56.
    “A week?” you ask.
    “No,” they might say. “Per month. And that includes phone and TV.”

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  48. Walt Avatar

    Leave it to Dougy to reference a fantasy flick to support his “claim”. You hold a pistola gangsta style too? We see that in the flicks too.
    So you cut and paste “O”‘s lame attempt to identify with gun owners? LOL!
    Where is the photo evidence? The ONLY ” gun” to be found in his hand is an
    “assault” water pistol.
    Your sinkn’ fast Dougy. But continue with the comic relief. We are taking bets
    to see how long it takes ya’ to run out of straws.

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  49. Gregory Avatar

    I guess Doug doesn’t realize that, if he doesn’t like a company, and he can avoid it, he can and should avoid it.
    Let go of your envy, Keach. Gates being wealthy doesn’t make you poor.

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  50. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE various – So you witnessed less developed country governments screwing their citizens, what else is new? How would you recommend that that wrong be righted?
    I have proclaimed my indelible rule of capitalism – the good part is that it games the system, and the bad part is that it games the system. Ergo, maintain a system in which such gaming is of benefit to all? many? most? Pareto optimal? (here comes that nasty utility function again).
    The socialist alternative is to create a system on an elitist basis that is totally arbitrary. Guess what the Lorenz curve (see Gini Index) for such a country looks like.
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2009/03/our-new-course-is-declared.html
    The only thing that is undeniable, as shown by the record (also see ‘Death by Government’), is that collectivist autocracies are the greatest killers of their own citizens, far outdoing wars and plagues. And the common denominator is always, ‘First we take their guns (e.g. by talking a lot about skeet shooting)’, for as Chairman Mao said “ALL power grows out of the barrel of a gun.” And power to the people? – No, No, No!

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