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January 2013
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George Rebane

Debt is an injustice imposed on borrowers by greedy lenders who do not deserve to be repaid – from the liberal mind.

Forbes has identified eleven states that are in an economic “death spiral”.  These are the pictured states whose taker/maker ratios equal or exceed 1.00, states where takers are the government employees and welfare recipients, and makers are those who are taxed to pay for the takers.

TakerMakerMap
This list of shame reads New Mexico 1.53, Mississippi 1.49, California 1.39, Alabama 1.10, Maine 1.07, New York 1.07, South Carolina 1.06, Kentucky 1.05, Illinois 1.03, Hawaii 1.02, and Ohio 1.00.  From this we see that California has 1.39 takers for every diminishing maker in the state.  [H/T to regular reader for the heads up on this.]

Victor Davis Hanson is keeping a stiff upper lip as he reports the goings on in the once golden state.

Not just in its finances but almost wherever you look, the state’s vital signs are dipping. The average unemployment rate hovers above 10 percent. In the reading and math tests administered by the National Assessment of Educational Progress, California students rank near the bottom of the country, though their teachers earn far more than the average American teacher does. California’s penal system is the largest in the United States, with more than 165,000 inmates. Some studies estimate that the state prisons and county jails house more than 30,000 illegal aliens at a cost of $1 billion or more each year. Speaking of which: California has the nation’s largest population of illegal aliens, on whom it spends an estimated $10 billion annually in entitlements. The illegals also deprive the Golden State’s economy of billions of dollars every year by sending remittances to Latin America.

For those wanting more than a little depth on this entire issue, Nicholas Eberstadt has written an analysis that pulls together the magnitude of the disease our country is afflicted with in his A Nation of Takers – America’s Entitlements Epidemic (2012).

The government statistics he quotes that document our behavior over the last 50 years or so are devastating.  Many of them have also been presented on RR, and, of course, duly rejected by our leftwing neighbors.  Eberstadt cites that 98% of Americans over 65 receive SS and Medicare payments. But what is more shocking is that in 1960 only 0.65% of 18-64 year olds were receiving SS disability payments, and that number today has swollen to almost 6%.  And well over a third of these are getting checks for “musculoskeletal and connective tissue” maladies and “mood disorders” – clearly the nation has discovered and is exploiting a new commons and getting while the getting is good.

The problem, it appears, is that once the government spigot is put in place and turned on, there is little chance of stopping people from demanding more spigots flowing at ever greater rates.  Contributor to the book, Yuval Levin notes that “Liberal democracy has always depended upon a kind of person it does not produce.”  These stark factors that now describe the landscape of American propensities have formed the basis of my own established assessment that we are beyond the tipping point that forebodes failure in the great experiment of our ability to govern ourselves.  And by no means is this a solitary vision of our future.

Meanwhile the looney Left denies all of this, and with supermajorities in both houses in Sacramento, you ain’t seen nothing yet when it comes to taxing and regulating the state’s Makers.

 

 

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202 responses to “Takers vs Makers”

  1. George Rebane Avatar

    A point of fact. In the ‘enlightened’ Nordic countries school vouchers can be spent anywhere with even the ability to augment the tuition from private funds. Sweden limits the amount of such add-ons.

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  2. JesusBetterman Avatar

    I think you are mixing apples and oranges in your fruit salads Greg, you must have interesting barbeques, or do you just have them catered?

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  3. Gregory Avatar

    So, to escape the local public schools I can only afford to send my kids to schools that can operate on less than the public schools get, both directly and indirectly, when bonds are floated to build and improve the designated public schools.
    Not much of a choice, is it?

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  4. Gregory Avatar

    Paul, if parents want a school that doesn’t meet a minimum curriculum standard in math, science and language, and to have objective measures of achievement made and publicized, they can do it without money taken from others at the point of a virtual gun.
    If you don’t pay property taxes, eventually, an armed public employee will come to evict you. Give it a try.

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  5. JesusBetterman Avatar

    If, in the Old West, you refused to build a school house, the neighboring towns would laugh at you for being so whiney.

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  6. Paul Emery Avatar

    Gregory
    Measure of achievement are made and publicized so parents of YRCS are aware of this information and still choose to send their children to the school of their choice. Do you think that they should not have that option? Why do you think this school is booming and regular public schools are losing enrollment?
    I’m sure the teachers union loves this conversation. They want all public education to go through them and their curriculum.

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  7. Gregory Avatar

    Tell me, Paul, where on the website are parents informed that the Yuba River Charter School is 99th on a list of the 100 most similar schools? Or that the Academic Performance Index is in the 2nd decile (10-20% from the bottom) for the state despite being populated by perhaps the highest socioeconomic status families?
    BTW I checked, and the school didn’t meet its growth targets last year. If it doesn’t meet them next year it could be subject to closure.

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  8. Paul Emery Avatar

    Gregory
    Not to worry. The numbers you looked at are not what is used in evaluation. It’s up to the County of Supes office to make that determnation anyway. It’s a very soft law and a way to ensure federal bucks bucks. By the way, what is your view of home schooling? Should Home schooled children be forced into Union led classrooms if they fail to perform up to standards?

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  9. Gregory Avatar

    The county board can take it over if they want, Paul, that’s in the law, too. Who knows, they may want to if it appears the Supe’s office isn’t being objective.
    No need to change the subject; besides, the Keachies of the world and their Unions squeal like stuck pigs when talk moves to actually using test results to help find the worst teachers.
    The law may be soft, but if the 100th on the Similar Schools list drops off because they get closed, the 99th might be the next on the list in more ways than one.

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  10. Paul Emery Avatar

    Gregory
    I spoke with those in the know at the Sup of ed office today and they assured me that the scores of Yuba Charter are just fine and not at all a problem. Waldorf schools score low until the 7th and 8th grades then the rise dramatically. I got laughs when I mentioned SB 1290 and I was told these scores have nothing to do with that criteria for certification. That is all about federal funds and none of Nevada Counties schools are at all in jeopardy.
    Again, what is your view of home schooling

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  11. Gregory Avatar

    Golly, Paul, that’s what I said… unless a subgroup is tagged as not meeting the growth target next year. Keep laughing.
    We’re talking about charter schools who spend state tax money, not homeschoolers. Why do you think the subjects are related?
    My only experience with ‘home schooling’ was when my contacts in the upper realms of mathematicians who were concerned about the path of k-12 math education alerted me to just how lousy the Algebra text selected for my son’s class was. One of the profs had been contacted by the publisher to try to fix it but he turned the job down as pointless. So I home schooled my kid in Algebra and Geometry with my choice of books, and only told his teacher a couple months after we started. Since it got me off his back, and he was delighted to hear the book I chose was actually still available (it wasn’t in fashion anymore). He gave Joey tests just to make sure it was working, and he aced them all.
    So, in short, if you’re not taking state money, why should the state care?

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  12. JesusBetterman Avatar

    If I recall correctly, the parents may not be taking state money, but those in charge of “supervising” the parents and the progress their offspring are making have been known to take in tons of state money. One husband/wife team down in eastern Contra Costa manage to make 1/2 million in one year doing just that.

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  13. JesusBetterman Avatar

    Paul, if there is any way to put a negative slant on anything a public school is doing, trust me, Greg will find it, and play it on a big bass drum, that’s his special genius. In fact, even St Mary’s is now a shadow of its former self, now that Joey’s done and Jeff’s kid is there. See the pattern? And he still won’t identifiy the true name of the Golden Calf Academy of the “Hard” Math and Sciences, but I suspect it once existed in Middle Earth, and is now buried with the Holy Grail. Maybe someday……unearthed beneath a parking lot, somewhere…..

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  14. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    The key to any success k-12 education is the support in the home. Charter schools that don’t cherry pick student do not do any better than public school and in many cases worse because their resources are limited. Nutrition, proper sleep, engaged parents, low stress, educated family members, and commitment is what creates a good education starting in the home. So lets see over the last 30 year workers wages have gone down while living expenses have sky rocketed. High Fructose Corn Syrup and GMO laced products pass as food, parents have to work longer hours and are more stressed thus are spending less time with their children reenforcing good study habits and learning.
    Talking about the education system only in the context of schools is leaving out the most important factor, what is going on in the students homes.

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  15. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    To add one thing to my last post. I support charter schools as another option not the solution, our daughter went NCSA.

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  16. JesusBetterman Avatar

    Another “Like” for 8:27 am, as Ben again lifts curtains on the topic supposedly being discussed, to get to the heart of the matter. Discussing schools in a vacuum sucks.

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  17. Paul Emery Avatar

    Well spoken Ben 8:27
    One of the reasons for the success of YRCS and Waldorf schools in general is that parental involvement is required. Also, no electronic media or entertainment before the age of 9. ome private Waldorf Schools (not public) make the parents sign a pledge that they will not allow access to video games and TV as a requirement for enrollment.

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  18. Gregory Avatar

    No Keach, it’s my son who doesn’t care for MSM anymore. They nearly went under a few years ago with machinations behind the scenes and donors squabbling. All the teachers my kid most liked were casualties in the resulting upheavals.
    It is the local St.Sensible, and I have great expectations that their curriculums are, and will continue to be, sensible.
    Keach likes the 8:27 because teachers like to blame parents no matter how bad the schools are. Any problem with the school is related to teacher pay, which will be too low for Doug as long as the CEO of Oracle makes more.
    Mea culpa on one thing; just the API problems at Yuba River won’t have any effect until 2017 when the current charter will have to be renewed, and it will be the API records of ’14, ’15 and ’16 that count for that renewal and it remains to be seen if the Waldorf methods are up to showing a consistent 5 point improvement year to year. But the API does show a severe academic problem at Yuba River; yes, the language testing comes way up in the later years, but the math doesn’t recover much, and neither comes close to what one would expect based on the very high educational level of the parents. That the school as a whole comes in at the 2nd decile (10% to 19%) for the state when you might expect it to be in the 9th or 10th based on their parents and lack of English Language Learners is telling.

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  19. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Greg,
    Teachers pay is way to low for the job they are asked to do. How much one on one time did you spend with your kids k-12 years? How important was that time? When you are stressed about finances or things related to finances is your patience the same or worse? Teachers spend 7 hours a day with 20-40 kids in each classroom. Then they have unpaid work hours after school. I watched my mom who was an adult ESL teacher grade papers, continuing education, and do many many extra curricular activities with her students and their families. All of which were unpaid for by the county.
    As for your remark “Keach likes the 8:27 because teachers like to blame parents no matter how bad the schools are”. I am assuming that was meant for Doug not the basis of the 8:27 comment. If it was at the entire comment not just Doug, both of my kids are and were honor students and haven’t had any serious problems in school. K-10 both my wife and I were very active in their schools and in courses they were taking. We let our son have some breathing room his Junior and Senior year from us and he continued to excel and were doing the same with our daughter and she is in her Senior year and her gpa is 4.0. So we know our time and energy were a good investment into shaping their work ethic, ability to learn, and most important critical thinking skills.
    I’m just curious, other than a concerned parent what is your background in the topic of education?

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  20. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    To add one more comment to my being a proud parent.
    We were lucky enough to have worked hard through our lives and to have access to the tools necessary to allow us the privilege of being there for our kids in those all important years.
    Not all families are so lucky and it is much harder. Some may thrive on the adversity but most struggle through those years doing the best they can. As a coach for Jr High and High School athletics over the years I have seen many families and student athletes struggling while others seem to be doing very well. Almost always but every once in awhile not the student players struggling at practice with fitness, concentration, and willingness to take constructive criticism is coming from a household that has financial turmoil, which leads to strain relations with parents or divorce and that affects the student athletes both in academics and being part of team.

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  21. JesusBetterman Avatar

    Greg switches back and forth, depending on the shade of black he wishes to achieve, between API and SCI:
    “Ranking the schools
    Schools are ranked in two ways: (1) statewide according to type and (2) compared with 100 schools with similar characteristics. These rankings are calculated from the Base API data and included in the Base API reports only.
    For the statewide ranking, the API scores are divided into 10 equal groups (deciles) for elementary, middle, and high schools. For each type of school, 10% of the schools are placed in each decile group; the groups are numbered from 1 (the lowest) to 10 (the highest). A school’s statewide rank is the decile into which it falls.
    Schools with 1 to 99 test scores are grouped with the others according to grades served, but small schools’ scores are not used to calculate rankings. School districts and ASAM schools also are not ranked.
    The PSAA also set up a mechanism, a school characteristics index (SCI), for comparing a school with its peers based on the challenges they face because of student demographics and some school and teacher characteristics. The SCI considers the following factors:
    Socioeconomic indicators (average parent education, percent of students participating in free/reduced-price meals);
    Percent of students who are English learners (ELs) or have been redesignated as fluent English proficient (RFEP);
    Percent of students from eight different racial/ethnic groups, including “two or more races”;
    Percent of students with disabilities;
    Percent of students in the Gifted and Talented Education (GATE) program;
    Teacher credentials (percent of teachers who are fully credentialed, percent with emergency permits);
    Average class size in specific grade spans;
    Percent of students first attending the school this year (i.e., school mobility);
    Whether the school operates a multitrack, year-round educational program;
    Percent of enrollment in specific grade spans by grade span; and
    Percent of students in the Migrant Education Program.
    SCI values primarily reflect student demographics and, to a lesser extent, school and teacher characteristics. The lower a school’s SCI value, the more likely the school is to have low test scores because of challenges such as low average parent education level, high poverty rates, and high percentages of English learners. For more statistical information regarding the calculation of the SCI, see http://www.cde.ca.gov/ta/ac/ap/documents/tdgreport1112.pdf.
    The SCI permits comparisons of student achievement among schools with similar characteristics and is used to prepare the Similar Schools Rank. To prepare the Similar Schools list, an SCI value is computed for schools of each type (elementary, middle, and high). Schools of the same type are listed in order of their SCIs. For a given school, 50 schools with an SCI immediately above and 50 immediately below the school are selected as the group for comparison. (If the SCI for a given school is in the top or bottom 50 of the statewide distribution, the group becomes the top or bottom 100.) The 100 schools are then sorted by their API scores, divided into 10 groups (deciles), and marked from 1 (lowest) to 10 (highest). The school’s Similar School Rank is the decile in which it falls (which may be different from its statewide API decile ranking).”
    Here he mixes the two up, not noticing that the factors he claims to damn YRCS, have already been taken into account in figuring the SCI.
    ” That the school as a whole comes in at the 2nd decile (10% to 19%) for the state when you might expect it to be in the 9th or 10th based on their parents and lack of English Language Learners is telling.” ~Greg~
    So Greg, eight graders alone, the finished “product” if you will, how does the school rank, statewide, percentage wise, on the API absolute scale?
    Source for above quote by State Gov: http://www.ed-data.k12.ca.us/Pages/UnderstandingTheAPI.aspx

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  22. Gregory Avatar

    Ben, for many teachers, the pay is more than they deserve and they don’t actually do the job they are asked to do, which is to impart a year of academic progress to the average student for a year of the student’s time. The best ones do far more and deserve to be rewarded for it, the worst ones do lifelong, lasting damage to their charges, the kids, yet the union is there to keep them from being shown the door.
    Yes, in the past Keachie has often thrown out the salaries earned by tech CEO’s when discussing how teachers are paid. It remains that the lower the SAT entering college, the higher the probability they are teaching 10 years after their baccalaureate, and couldn’t survive in tech if they tried.
    My background? I attended public schools for K-12. During a year’s break during my own college years, I spent a year teaching algebra at a public middle school, as a teacher’s aide, to a mentally gifted group who had burned through all the math the staff was capable of understanding. Then I went back to school to finish a degree in physics. My father (the first in his family to get a college degree) became a teacher on the GI Bill, ended up with a Masters in Ed Administration from USC. Just about all the adults that were my folk’s friends were teachers, administrators (including the Principal who hired me for that year) and brewers belonging to the union where his brewer stepdad was Secretary.
    My first wife, the first in her family to get a college degree, attended a St.Sensible then public high school, but when our son got close to school age she decided to retread from electrical engineering to being a math teacher; that’s when she found out a degree in math from Harvey Mudd had no standing for teaching math in Calfornia because of an arcane requirement for a state certified transcript analyst to wave their wand and say she knew enough math to teach it. She was teaching math to Sierra College students when she passed away.
    I became active in Math Education reform when finding the Grass Valley School District went with an experimental program, Mathland, when our son was in the 1st grade, and was the first person on the Internet to make the observation that the new, constructivist curriculums that Mathland was a vanguard of was essentially Professor Harold Hill’s Think System from “The Music Man” applied to mathematics, and participated in math education listservers including one run by the American Math Teacher Educators, a group of math professors discussing math education from their point of view. The moderator was very kind to allow me to participate as I was the only non-math teacher or professor on the list.
    If you had a student in the Nevada City district in the later 90’s, you might have me to thank. One of the Nevada City teachers that I knew told me they were using Mathland and were stuck with it because only the fuzzy programs were on the approved state book list, but it was hated by the teachers and administration. Asking my contacts, I found that there was indeed a way to buy other books using state monies. Mathematically Correct, a parents group loosely headed by a Professor of Virology at the Salk Institute and a UCSD Statistician that I was associated with, sent me complete documentation assembled at another California district and printed it out with US Robotics donating about 250 pages of paper to do it. That was used by Nevada City principals to buy alternative books that were put into regular use, leaving them to be able to point to the dusty Mathland materials on the shelf if they were asked about them by the board members who had chosen it.
    One big problem with K-12 math curriculums is that the people in K-12 administration, especially K-8, don’t have a clue as to what it takes to gain the intellectual capital required to master algebra, geometry, trigonometry, statistics or introductory calculus and be able to enter college ready to tackle subjects that require that readiness. Mostly because they were horrible at it, one of the reasons why they went into Education in the first place.

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  23. Gregory Avatar

    “Here he mixes the two up, not noticing that the factors he claims to damn YRCS, have already been taken into account in figuring the SCI.
    ” That the school as a whole comes in at the 2nd decile (10% to 19%) for the state””
    No, Keach, the 2nd decile was for the whole school, whole state listing. They’re in the 1st decile (0.2 decile to be specific) among their 100 most similar schools.

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  24. Ben Emery Avatar
    Ben Emery

    Thanks Greg. I think the teacher pay thing is much more complicated than you make it out to be. If teachers were paid equal to their level of necessity and importance to society in general their pay would be at least double of what it is today. What it would do would be to attract the most innovative, enthusiastic, and professional prospects coming out of higher education with having competition for those teaching positions instead of getting a small few who choose to go into a profession they cannot afford to do but have great intentions. With the debt accumulated through higher education and inability to live a comfortable lifestyle for such important and draining work many good teachers leave the profession and those who are good that stay are used as a punching bag taking the hits on those who aren’t qualified or have the aptitude for teaching staying in the education system. My brother is a perfect example. He would have made a great teacher, which as his intention was to become but he couldn’t afford to have a family on a teachers income in Santa Cruz area. So he has worked in the tech field and has been a very valuable asset to what ever company he has worked. In our family (Founder/ head of NGO in Cambodia, Small Private Ranch Manager, Teacher, Truck Driver, Farmers) he the big money earner. I think he is in the 1.5 to 2% of income earners in America. Doing well but not wealthy by any means.

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  25. JesusBetterman Avatar

    So maybe a peek at the page will help some. The SCI for the one hundred schools is supposed to even out all the foreign language speaking, minority, poor, free lunch factors. With that out of the way, the school overall evaluates like this in comparison to the rest of what Nevada County has to offer:

    The “bottom” is still a very respectable on the state wide measurements, and that includes all grades. We’ve already discussed the reason for low performance in the lower grades, and higher performances as the kids age./ BTW, this is exactly the opposite of the pattern for most ghetto schools. If you look at just what gets tested in 8th grade only, social sciences, YRCS is doing quite well.

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  26. JesusBetterman Avatar

    Here’s another look at the API. The state’s target is 800, and each school is apparently increase their scores by 5% of the difference between their lower score and that magical 800 number.

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  27. JesusBetterman Avatar

    “That the school as a whole comes in at the 2nd decile (10% to 19%) for the state when you might expect it to be in the 9th or 10th based on their parents and lack of English Language Learners is telling.” ~Greg~
    And if you pay attention, the school does not come in as 2nd decile for state, it comes in 2nd decile for the group of 100 very similar schools, in terms of socioeconomic background, within the state, and that’s using all of the grades, not the finished product coming out of eighth grade.

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  28. JesusBetterman Avatar

    Mirabile dictu! The posts have returned to Capistrano, or maybe not. I got here via the search engine, so maybe I owe an apology, maybe I don’t. Let’s see if this stuff sticks?

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  29. JesusBetterman Avatar

    And for your state averages and commentary, try this, and I’m done: http://www.insidelg.com/forum/content.php?1367-API-Scores-submitted-by-Joe-Madden

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  30. JesusBetterman Avatar

    So 80% of the schools are within 100 points of the magical 800, 10% are up in the stratosphere, and 10% can be as low as 400 pojnts below the magical 800. Looks to me like a system designed to make all but the 10% at the bottom feel like they are doing “pretty good.” Next question, how well do these scores correlate with the SAT/ACT scores at the end of high school?

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  31. Gregory Avatar

    I encourage the literate and numerare ruminators with intact vision to look at Keachie’s screenshot and decide for themselves.
    Here’s my link for the same 2011 API that Keachie’s figure is based on, the latest that’s correlated in the state reports:
    “2011 Statewide Rank: 2 2011 Similar Schools Rank: 1”
    http://api.cde.ca.gov/Acnt2012/2011BaseSchSS.aspx?allcds=29102980114322
    There is one, and only one, school on the 100 Similar list that is lower than Yuba River Charter School with a 2011API of 729, and yes, it’s also a Waldorf school.
    YRCS did get a nice little increase in the 2012 Growth API but if it keeps the same relative demographics it doesn’t look like it will get out of the bottom 100 Similar decile.

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  32. JesusBetterman Avatar

    And here is a “similar school” one which stuck out like a sore thumb when I look at it, as during my year as roving techie, I spent some time there, along with an amazing group of federally funded aides, etc, in downtown SF, right next to Chinatown. http://dq.cde.ca.gov/dataquest/Acnt2012/2011BaseSch.aspx?allcds=38684786041131
    One wonders how these schools are similar?

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  33. JesusBetterman Avatar

    And also, what a difference a day makes. Balboa High used to be the bottom HS in SFUSD. I was taken aback when looking at its new API, and checked deeper, and the demographics have been completely switched around. I thought perhaps a mistake, so I called the school and confirmed, Asians have replaced most of the Blacks, and here we see a brand new school, same old building: http://dq.cde.ca.gov/dataquest/Acnt2012/2011BaseSch.aspx?cYear=2011-12&allcds=38-684783830288

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  34. Gregory Avatar

    Crickets…

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  35. JesusBetterman Avatar

    Crickets chirping, “How similar are these schools? How similar are these schools? Are the rest of them as far fetched? Are the rest of them as far fetched?”

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  36. Gregory Avatar

    Keach, feel free to either again assert your claims of 10:29.
    I do agree it’s hard to judge what is a similar school to Yuba River, in that it’s 100% English speaking and with a reported 98+% of the parents with some college/college/grad school. Just some of the demographics that being in the lower 20% of all California schools puts into stark relief.

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  37. Gregory Avatar

    Keach, feel free to either again assert your claims of 10:29, or do another “I don’t have attention deficit disorder… hey look! There’s a chicken!” post.
    Yuba River Charter School is in the 2nd decile statewide, and in the 1st (ie lowest decile) among it’s designated 100 most similar schools.
    And, in addition, it’s actually the 99th on that list of 100.

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  38. Paul Emery Avatar

    Gregory
    I suggewt you contact Yuba Charter for a greater understanding of what those numbers mean. You’re in the dark here. Do that and report back about your findings.

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  39. Gregory Avatar

    Paul, if there is someone you think can explain it better than I, invite them to participate here.
    I’m quite sure I’m interpreting the numbers correctly, and Doug isn’t. I also think you may well be in denial because of your emotional attachment to the YRCS community.

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  40. Paul Emery Avatar

    Gregory
    I do have personal experience of the quality of education from YRCS through years of involvement and contact with families that are quite satisfied. That’s why I suggest you spend a little time gathering additional information so we can carry on the conversation on equal terms. I’m sure if you call the school with your questions some one will sit down with you. They do it all the time. After you’ve done that let’s continue our conversation.

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  41. Gregory Avatar

    Paul, I’ve read much of the sales pitches on the school’s website and am familiar with Waldorf issues and Steiner… even before I made friends with a woman who was a full time student at Steiner College.
    The problem with the claims of ‘we make up for lost time at the older ages’ is that the data really doesn’t support it when you consider that YRCS is 100% English speaking and from highly educated families. I’m working on coming up with reasonable swags from the published public data; perhaps, if you can’t find someone to participate here and now, I may eventually do what you command before I write a larger piece to look at local schools and their 100 Similar Schools rankings.
    Can you point me to a Republican family that had a child at Yuba River for most of their elementary years? I’d like to get a non-progressive take on the school.

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  42. Paul Emery Avatar

    Generally politics is not a common topic among school families so I would hesitate to specifically point you towards anyone who might be Republican or Democrat. Many parents I know are much more in the Libertarian camp in their desire to form their own school based on the Waldorf model adapted to the public system. Generally families a are a bit of an independent lot who are happy with the school because it’s an alternative philosophy of education to standard public schools.
    A few years ago there was quite an uproar when the Unions tried to pass laws that would require Union teachers that would damage the schools independence. As I recall our Republican State Legislators at the time were quite supportive of the school and Charter schools in general during the struggle. This was a few years ago I might add probably around 2004 when the battle was in full force. The battle does continue as I see it through the Unions trying to pass legislation that would take away parental discretion in curriculum and pedagogy. Testing numbers come up and are part of the discussion from critics so the issue is not new. All in all the school is thriving and well established as a successful Charter School.
    My information is a little dated-perhaps four years old but I do keep in contact and follow the schools progress through personal contacts and news stories.

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  43. George Rebane Avatar

    Greg 428pm, PaulE 454pm – Gentlemen, this has been a most civil and interesting discussion on educational approaches and achievements. I invite you to continue it under a dedicated heading of a post bylined by either of you, or two contending pieces by each of you. The discussion has predictably sprouted many threads, and to bring more readers back into the circle, perhaps these pieces could pull together the main arguments, highlight where your current contentions lie, and each outline their reasonable plan forward. If you email them to me, I will gladly post them.

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  44. Paul Emery Avatar

    Interesting idea George. However I don’t want to be a spokesperson for Waldorf education as applied to Charter schools. There are far better representatives than me. A general discussion of the independence of Charter schools might be more appropriate since that would include Waldorf inspired schools as well as others and could examine their pursuit of independence from standard school curriculum and the teachers union. Also vouchers and home schooling can be part of the topic. I’m a bit out of wind on the topic right now and I don’t have too much more to say. It has been a civil discussion and I appreciate it. There may be a contrast of values at the heart of the topic. One, the intent of charter schools to fashion programs based on the desires of the parents and the other being the grading of the system through testing, evaluation and accountability by the governments educational establishments such as unions and the government bureaucracy. There is big concern that Charter Schools are taking too many students out of the regular system therefore affecting the income of traditional districts through declining ADA (average daily attendance) or the “bean count” as administrators like to put it. ,

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  45. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 546pm – As you wish. I just thought that to get more participation from a bigger audience, that the topic deserved its own space (that also pointed back at the current thread) if you both felt that it needed further development.

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  46. M. A. Avatar
    M. A.

    As a parent with kids doing extremely well at GVC, which is unique in that it is a charter school within a traditional school district, there is no one posting here who has any grand idea about how to increase literacy in English, math, and science.
    Well, I take that back a bit, the Tech Test crew does great work, but how does it scale? Let ALL the kids in Nevada County get a shot. Even the gay kids.

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  47. George Rebane Avatar

    MA 1158pm – Thank you Michael. ALL the NC juniors and seniors already have “a shot” at TechTest (this year TT2013 will be on 23 March), it is their teachers who inform them of the test and recommend their taking it. Last year we also started TechTestJr for all the county’s 8th graders, to motivate them to get onto a STEM curriculum path.
    And rejoice, the your lament about no “grand idea about how to increase literacy in English, math, and science” is misplaced. The solution for marked improvement is easy as has been pointed out in my posts and in great detail by commenters like GregG. Step one is to reestablish the abandoned curriculum that made preceding generations very literate in English, math, and science. Then we can continue improving on path from which progressive political correctness has been banished.

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  48. Gregory Avatar

    MA, Merry Byles-Daly of the Grass Valley Charter School was the “master teacher” in charge of the roll out of “Mathland” at the GVSD. She taught the initial pilot year, and based on her reports, the entire district went to Mathland the second year. Byles-Daly ran the Mathland Parent’s Night where we were introduced to the curriculum and the “Mathematical Power” it would bring to all kids.
    She was also in charge of evaluating the progress of the students, and I went to the board meetings where she regaled the clueless board members with stories about how the kids and the teachers all loved it and the kids were all learning so much more than with the old traditional methods. One of the board members was so excited she was hot on writing the high school and get them on board and aligned with Mathland… in a way, they did. They instituted a placement exam for Geometry X, expressly to shuttle poorly prepared GVSD students into the less challenging groups.
    She was clueless about how kids learned math, felt any skills practice was just ‘drill and kill’, and told me directly that if a “child can do the first problem [on a textbook’s exercise page] it does them NO GOOD [her emphasis] to do the rest of them”.
    Linda Brown, the ass’t superintendent, and Jon Byerrum, the super, were the ones that moved the GVSD to whole language and whole math; my wife Teri was clued in by one teacher that many of the best saw the handwriting on the walls and found work elsewhere.
    It was two years after we moved our son the MSM that the resumed state testing, STAR, showed half the kid’s in my son’s cohort in the bottom quartile in both math and language.
    You might ask Merry how her teaching methods have changed since the constructivist methods she championed had failed so badly; I recently sent her a couple of emails with no responses back.

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  49. Gregory Avatar

    A tortured cut and paste above is fixed below:
    “It was two years after we moved our son to MSM that the state resumed standardized testing, and the STAR/SAT9 exam showed half the kid’s in my son’s cohort in the bottom quartile in both math and language.”

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  50. Gregory Avatar

    “The mission of Grass Valley Charter School (GVCS) is to inspire students to achieve high standards, create quality work, and embrace lifelong learning and service through Expeditionary Learning.”
    “Expeditionary Learning” didn’t ring any alarm bells when I first read through the GVCS web pages, but it does seem that it’s an issue of the “same [stuff], different decade.” From the wiki:
    “Expeditionary Learning Schools are models of comprehensive school reform based on the educational ideas of German educator Kurt Hahn… They are exemplified by project-based learning expeditions, where students engage in interdisciplinary, in-depth study of compelling topics, in groups and in their community, with assessment coming through cumulative products, public presentations, and portfolios.”
    This is a doubling down on the same old constructivist vision that brought whole language and the project based Mathland, with a new wrapper. So we have two different charters in Nevada County following the teachings of two different Germans, Steiner and Hahn.
    More on Hahn:
    “Hahn’s educational philosophy was based on respect for adolescents, whom he believed to possess an innate decency and moral sense, but who were, he believed, corrupted by society as they aged. He believed that education could prevent this corruption, if students were given opportunities for personal leadership and to see the results of their own actions.”
    And another tidbit:
    “Worsley records his impressions of Hahn’s penetrating character analysis, and his energy and commitment in the cause of human development, but as time went on he became critical of Hahn’s “despotic, overpowering personality”:
    “He revealed himself as having a fierce temper, a strong hand with the cane, and a temperament which hated being crossed. Especially damaging to my very English view, was his dislike of being defeated at any game. Hahn was an avid tennis player. But was it an easily forgiveable weakness that his opponents had to be chosen for being his inferiors or else, if their form was unknown, instructed not to let themselves win?”
    So yet another German who made up a new sort of schooling based on his vision.
    George, I will work up a post and see about taking up your kind offer. BTW I did look over the TechTest Jr pages and I’m not surprised Seven Hills and Magnolia dominated it. If I might be so bold to suggest you ask TechTest Sr. participants what Elementary/Middle School they attended; I think that’s worth keeping track of.

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