Rebane's Ruminations
December 2012
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George Rebane

The 14dec12 Newtown shootings have raised two distinct issues in the public mind – 1) how to protect kids in school against rogue shooters, and 2) how to quickly politicize public passions and focus them on the progressives' long term program to disarm America.  My 17dec12 post ‘Fire! Ready, Aim – Panic-driven Public Policy’ invited discussion of WHEN and HOW we should proceed to find solutions to protecting kids in school, and admonished the rush to agenda driven ‘solutions’ before we knew the results of the massive investigation now underway in Newtown.

Few commenters cared to wait, and all wanted a rush to judgment which it appeared that each was also enthusiastic to lead.  The predictable divisions emerged instantly and almost all the ‘solutions’ offered contained no substantive reasoning to buttress them.  It was again sloganeering time, and all the old ones were hauled out, dusted off, and shouted across the ideological barricades.

No one even offered an objective (or utility function) that would at least frame a reasonable discussion.  To the simpletons it was simple, don’t we want to save school kids’ lives?  What in hell is complicated about that?!  And since guns were used for the killings, make it impossible for everyone including killers to get guns.  And what in hell is complicated about that?!

More reasoned voices counseled us to make haste slowly , and at least wait until we find out what led to the Newtown massacre.  (Taleb’s ‘procrastination promotes antifragility’ which I’ll cover soon, cf Antifragile – Things that gain from disorder)  But louder voices – led by our President and New York’s Bloomberg – advised proceeding in the heat of public passions lest they cool and let another crisis go to waste.

Enter the NRA, after letting some of the dust settle, to propose the installment of armed security personnel at all schools.  My own contribution was to achieve that security through arming of selected existing school staff, and augment through use of volunteer CCW permit holders from the community.  Such solutions brought out nationwide howls from the country’s leftwing that were appropriately amplified by the lamestream.

In spite of today’s ‘Fire!, Ready, Aim’ approach, we hear of more concerned heads taking appropriate actions to provide for the health and safety of their community’s school children.  Marlboro Township in New Jersey has adopted the NRA approach and will station armed security in their schools.   Also it turns out that other school districts in saner states already have armed school staff (teachers and administrators) on duty in their schools.  Here’s an AP report on a Texas town that is concerned beyond national demagoguery about their kids’ safety.  Things could be looking up, if we let them.

So, the purpose of this post is to dedicate a forum in its comment stream for discussing solutions to halt/reduce the incidence of school shootings, or more comprehensively, to school killings.  And for those discussants whose intellect and temperament allows, I offer a simple objective or utility function – minimize the expected rate of K-12 kids being killed while attending school.  Considering the last twelve years, that death rate is somewhere around 130/12 or 10.8 kids per year (data here).

A taxonomy of solution categories may be structured as follows –

1.    Increase National Gun Control/Confiscation
2.    Provide additional armed security at/on school facilities
2.1.    NRA approach – hired armed guards in schools
2.2.    Israeli approach – armed school staffers
2.3.    Rebane approach – volunteer CCW permit holders and Israeli approach
3.    Revise mental disorder laws to allow early interdiction of potential rogue shooters
4.    Various combinations of above categories
5.    Don’t address the problem and just vilify other solutions and the people who present or support them.  (This is really not a ‘solution category’ but an inevitable ‘response category’.)

[29dec12 update]  Physician and lawyer Dr Robert Bernat writes in today's WSJ a sober piece titled 'A Reluctant Vote in Favor of Armed School Guards'  wherein he observes that "Only one of the proposed responses to the Sandy Hook attack promises to have an immediate, positive effect."  Worth a read, especially by our liberal readers.

[14jan13 update]  As the White House now becomes the architect of the insanely ineffective gun control proposals being aired by the Left, here's some sanity from, of all places, Cal Fire News entitled 'How many kids have been killed by school fire?'

Posted in , ,

106 responses to “How to Protect School Children in Schools (updated 14jan13)”

  1. videodrone Avatar
    videodrone

    Russ,
    Our local excuse for a newspaper has published a list of county issued CCW permit holders in the past and acknowledging that they can do so again is part of the permitting and renewal process.

    Like

  2. Gregory Avatar

    “By means they mean an appropriate amount of stockpiled prescription drugs or a gun.”
    Cars are also thought to be a major suicide choice, especially among men. A bonus is that unless a suicide note is found even a single car accident will be considered an accident.
    If you think your loved ones would be less dead from a hanging than a bullet, by all means, keep adding gun suicides in the numbers you’re using to sell gun bans. Your delusions are yours to keep.

    Like

  3. Gregory Avatar

    The news today, something for everyone:
    “Two volunteer firefighters were killed and two others seriously injured when they were ambushed with gunfire while responding to a house and car fire in western New York — what police now believe was a Christmas Eve trap set up by a shooter who had once served time for beating his grandmother to death with a hammer”
    How does anyone who kills their grandma with a hammer get out of prison in anything other than a pine box?

    Like

  4. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    Greg, the topic is protecting school kids, and you’ve gone off the tracks, chasing the daisies of suicide.
    Greg, it takes stuffing prisons with MJ dealers and smokers until they burst. Score another one for the war on drugs.
    Say everybody, are you all missing something?
    Most schools have internet which goes through a filter. It would not be too hard to intercept the packer stream and force a map on screen throughout the school during emergencies. There’s a software patent and market here somewhere, with 137,000 separate schools nationwide. I thought our SillyPinecone Valley was looking for work?
    Some local districts are issuing IPad to students on a daily check out checkin basis. The kids would be able to instantly see where the action is and run the other way.
    Or, make the emergency displays and use tradtional hardware LED solutions.
    BTW, the teachers wireless biometric device could transmit one of four possibilities: blue for recalcitrant student, yellow for student(s) fighting/teacher endangered, orange for stranger on campus, and red for stranger doing bad stuff on campus.
    The development of the transmitter seems like something that could be done here. Hardwired maps in LED’s could be done here. You make it and I could sell it, Let’s do this for the local economy.

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  5. JimS Avatar
    JimS

    So, if an unauthorized “sheepdog” stops a killer in a “gun free zone” with a firearm, what should be the ‘dog’s legal consequences?
    If the ‘dog waited ’til one innocent was harmed, would that have any weight?
    Should the ‘dog be punished for a victimless crime if they stopped a crime against innocent victims?
    Is it impudent even to suggest that there are citizen watchmen?

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  6. Gregory Avatar

    Keach, suicide was brought in by Frisch’s meaningless statistics, and no, your latest hallucinations regarding the use of the internet and ipads to direct stampedes out of the school isn’t anything that anyone “missed”. I see not a single practical idea in your 6:41.
    JimS, I think in practice a good Samaritan who illegally saved lives would be let go even by a rabid anti gun DA because it would be near impossible to find 12 jurors who would all vote guilty.
    Happy Christmas to all and to all a good night.

    Like

  7. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    Thanks Greg, as your rejection means the ideas are winners.

    Like

  8. George Rebane Avatar

    Gentlemen – Jo Ann and I wish you all a Merry Christmas and a healthy and prosperous 2013. Thank you for gracing these pages with your thoughts.

    Like

  9. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    Thank-you for providing the space, Merry Christmas and other great holidays to all, as we once again swing away from the galactic center, on our happy Tilt-a-Whirl….

    Like

  10. L Avatar
    L

    Merry Christmas to all who participate here and thanks George for providing the opportunity. God bless.
    Still,I’m beginning to worry about one of the participants. We now have the bizarre situation of Keach’s numerous “sock puppets” responding to each other’s posts… and yeah, tho JoeK is apparently gone, a couple of new ones, above, are easily detectable. Maybe we should be concerned. L

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  11. Gregory Avatar

    I have rethought Keachie’s idea to have an internet system to signal kids in school where to run for their very lives, and do think it has a limited application where elderly half-deaf, half-blind substitute teachers with ADD are employed. Everywhere else we should allow the adults legally in charge to protect the kids the way we’d expect any able bodied responsible and sane adult to do without a second thought.
    Given the extremely limited number of potential sales, I doubt anyone would build it.

    Like

  12. Paul Emery Avatar

    My view is that guns are a safety hazard that current laws and lack of enforcement of existing laws allow to be placed in the hands of incompetent and dangerous people. Any argument about that?

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  13. Gregory Avatar

    Revisiting the suicide stats, here’s an interesting one:
    “Four out of five people who commit suicide have attempted to kill themselves at least once previously.”
    Joiner, Thomas. 2005. Why People Die by Suicide. Cambridge,
    MA: Harvard University Press.
    Practice makes perfect. Everyone not in protective custody “has the means” to commit suicide, it just takes some who are fixated on it longer to discover what works for them.
    That stat also reminds me of a domestic violence factoid… something like 90% of all domestic shootings have had the police called over a disturbance at least once, and half have had the cops called five times or more.
    To help Steven Frisch out of his concern for my well being, one of my closest friends, a mental health professional (an MSW/LCSW) trusted me flying their three closest relatives, also friends, up to northeast California from Grass Valley, a lovely flight up to Susanville. Not to mention the mental health screening inherent in the FAA medical certification. My only series of MFT visits (when my first wife was dying) ended with the therapist telling me I was “normal”, only depressed because I had something major to be depressed about, to keep up my ties to the community and, if anything, spend more time outside the family to make sure I was anchored once my wife died.
    I didn’t want to end up like a fellow of the time who blew his brains out while visiting his wife’s grave and I dodged that bullet.
    Now, Steve, reading your latest blog posts makes be think you’ll really be at risk if the phony “assault weapons ban” doesn’t get passed and when climate change alarmism collapses. Get some help.

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  14. Gregory Avatar

    Paul, yes, you have an argument over that. The safety hazards are the incompetent and/or dangerous people you mention in passing. They also wield other useful things like automobiles and power tools.
    A #2 Philips head screwdriver is also just a tool, but aviation mechanics like to say the most dangerous thing in aviation is an owner wielding one.

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  15. George Rebane Avatar

    PualE 347pm – Yes they are a danger, like many other things that contribute to our quality of life. But the aggregate risk to the nation is miniscule when compared to the risk were guns to be consfiscated (or effectively so through the agenda driven gun control ratchets). It is the disagreements about this and statements like this that terminally divide us.

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  16. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Gregory, George
    Are you in favor of a type of competency and ability testing for owning a firearm that is required for driving and owning an automobile? Also a similar liability requirement such as auto insurance?

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  17. Gregory Avatar

    Paul, what part of “the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed” are you not clear on?
    Should we have literacy tests or current knowledge exams for voting or for free exercise of speech? Why should that be different?
    You can own all the automobiles you want without insurance or licensing, if you keep them on private land. In fact, you can own an airplane and fly it without a pilots certificate as long as you stay over private land (that you own or have permission to fly over) and within G airspace, generally within 700′ of the ground, sometimes higher.
    We already have limited licenses for carrying firearms publicly. The CCW requires significant training and demonstrated proficiency. Hunting licenses also require such. But what constitutional authority does Paul cite to require a mother (or big brother) may I? for basic ownership, given the now settled law of the 2nd referring to an individual right?

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  18. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 746pm – I took your question in the sense of the subject of this post, and not implicating your interpretation of the Constitution. Having said that, I support the points made by Greg (859pm), and would even double down on tougher requirements for exercising the voting franchise that should be set by each state. Ignorant and stupid voters do much more damage to the nation than does the occasional deranged shooter (who can be averted by easier and less impactive means than curtailing the 2nd Amendment).
    In sum, today’s laws are already sufficient (and in some cases excessive) to maintain the cost-benefit of broad-based gun ownership at a tolerable level. First enforce what we already have on the books.

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  19. Paul Emery Avatar

    Calm down gentlemen I was only asking a question not expressing my own view.
    I also have a problem with ignorant voters especially those who use religious mythology as a substitute for science. For example should someone who actually believe the world was created in seven 24 hour days be allowed to vote?

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  20. Gregory Avatar

    Paul, ask questions that seem to mesh with your own view and they will be taken as such.
    Should people who have never taken a real science course in their life be allowed to vote?
    Should someone who doesn’t know a modern gas operated carbine from a matchlock be allowed to lobby to ban the former?
    I have problems with ignorant voters of all persuasions, but I don’t see how any adult citizen who can manage to blunder into a polling place at the appointed time and fill out a ballot can be kept from voting. Rather than a “get out the vote” campaign, I’d like to see a “stay home and shut up” campaign for those who can’t be bothered to look behind the sloganeering.

    Like

  21. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Nice parry, Paul. I give you the point.

    Like

  22. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    Gosh Gregory, the thought never crossed my mind that you might blow your brains out…I was thinking that megalomania might be a more accurate diagnosis than depression.
    I think Paul is on to the long term solution here: Yes, you have a right to keep and bear arms, on your own property; as soon as you take those arms into the public realm they may be regulated until the cows come home.
    I give Paul the point as well.

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  23. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Apparently MA and SF did not read PaulE’s comment very carefully. He said it was not his opinion but simply a question. What a couple of dumbkoffs.

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  24. George Rebane Avatar

    With apologies, I missed the contention of PaulE’s 746pm, and intended none in my 938pm reply. Pray, for what is Paul being awarded all the points?

    Like

  25. Ken Jones Avatar
    Ken Jones

    Todd you really have no firm ground calling any one a “dumbkoof(s)”, when you probably meant dumbkopf. But I wouldn’t expect a scintilla of common sense from you Todd. Talk about Fire Aim Ready logic!

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  26. George Rebane Avatar

    … just for reference, the Germans spell it ‘dummkopf’ 😉

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  27. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Todd, try to keep up. I know it’s hard, what with Humpty Dumpty still being closed, and no waffles available except for those gummy ones over at Perko’s. Paul was making a point by asking a question: “For example, should someone who actually believes the world was created in seven 24-hour days be allowed to vote?”
    George has repeatedly claimed that stupid people shouldn’t be able to vote. Paul is helping to define the test for those stupid people. His question remains unanswered, despite Todd’s clumsy ad hominem.

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  28. George Rebane Avatar

    Re MichaelA’s 931am – PaulE’s 1021pm question is bit a snarky and invites answers like ‘Yes, let them vote as long as all those still get to vote who believe their transfer payments come from some mysterious presidential “stash”.
    Actually, the question of what are the qualifications for voting is a more serious one, and deserves a topic of its own. In the past, when we have tried to discuss this issue, the progressives have gone off the rails with all kinds of sloganeering like ‘racism’ and ‘discrimination’. We already have discriminatory laws that prohibit certain people from voting, are they they necessary, are they sufficient? If not, what else is needed?
    And yes, I do believe that there should be some minimal intellectual requirements to be met before a person can vote, else, as today, they become ballot stuffers for the clever, perfidious, and rich.

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  29. Gregory Avatar

    Mandersonation ran out of points to give a long time ago.
    Frisch, what part of ‘the right of the people to own and carry guns shall not be infringed’ do you not get? No, they won’t be “regulated until the cows come home”; the cows came home a long time ago, and the SCOTUS is slowly sending them back out.
    George, the qualification to vote is being an adult citizen whose criminality has not stripped them of the right to vote. I’m afraid you’ll have to hope the most stupid will manage to invalidate their ballots with double votes or, for the mail in crowd, forgetting to sign it. Or just stay home because it won’t do no good to vote anyway.
    Paul, the science idiots the last time around were the ones who thought Hurricane Sandy was man made. But it’s a fashionable idiocy.

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  30. Gregory Avatar

    “The megalomaniac differs from the narcissist by the fact that he wishes to be powerful rather than charming, and seeks to be feared rather than loved. To this type belong many lunatics and most of the great men of history.” -Bertrand Russell
    Frisch accuses me of megalomania, which is truly bizarre, having never been a seeker of power. Always wanting to build things, not to command others to do so. I think Frischie is projecting, as most executive chefs are out of the closet megalomaniacs to begin with, and RR’s resident six figure non-profit CEQ is doing his best to climb the power ladder.

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  31. Ken Jones Avatar
    Ken Jones

    Correct George it is dummkopf. I took Spanish.

    Like

  32. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    “Mandersonation ran out of points to give a long time ago.”
    Luckily for humanity, GG is not the arbiter of who gets to award points and who doesn’t.

    Like

  33. Paul Emery Avatar

    Here’s a question to consider.
    Should a person who literally believes that someone named Noah packed up matched couples of all the animals in the world into his self made boat to save them from extinction after the great flood that covered the entire world be allowed to vote? Do they pass the IQ-Education threshold that George suggests is necessary ?

    Like

  34. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Wow, I make a cogent point about the resident dumbkopf lefty posters and they go out and recruit another one. Ken Jones, you have a liberals common sense. That is, none. The rest are just to funny. Anyone traveling to Burning Man cannot and is not taken seriously anyway. (I bet Ken Jones goes too, wink wink)
    PaulE. Your questions are formed as the pollsters form them. They have a predisposition on the answer so the question is formatted to accommodate that bias. They are called “push-pull” questions. Ken Jones knows about them because he is a leftwing t propagandist.
    Now we have a push=pull from PaulE who is a nonbeliever in Jesus as the Savior, asking the question should someone who believes in Noah and the flood be qualified to vote. Well, hell yes. Lincoln, Washington Mother Teresa and may millions of people with a lot more smarts than PaulE have existed and voted wherever they lived. I would suggest PaulE’s question should be asked of the old communists who lived through the USSR days where a candidate got 99% of the vote and those commies, dudes and dudettes (that was for4 MA) , were the smartest folks around. Go Paul!

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  35. Paul Emery Avatar

    Todd
    I only brought that up after some kind of IQ-Intelligence criteria was suggested by contributors. By the way, you know nothing of my religious beliefs so I’d appreciate you treading lightly on that road lest you arouse my anger and appropriate response. I never once expressed any kind of generalization of your religious beliefs.
    I think it’s entirely relevant to ask the question, if voter competence is under review, whether voters living under the influence of archaic Christian mythology that they wish to impose on others through their voting preference, should be allowed to vote.

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  36. Gregory Avatar

    Paul, should welfare recipients be allowed to vote? Public employees?
    Everyone believes in one myth or another, and it’s poorly correlated with IQ. While some creation myths are particularly silly, I don’t know any such belief that poisons the body politic more than the manna from heaven that welfare slaves and too many public employees believe in.

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  37. Gregory Avatar

    Mandersonation, you’re the one posing as the one sitting in judgment. Di we need to dig out your self portrait once again?

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  38. Russ Steele Avatar

    Here are some thoughts on Gun Control that many, but not all, will enjoy: http://stevengoddard.wordpress.com/2012/12/27/penn-and-teller-on-gun-control/

    Like

  39. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    PaulE, sorry I thought you told us a few times you were not a Christian. I apologize if that is not the case.
    Regarding wrath. That is too funny.
    Fascinating though PaulE that you used Noah. Why didn’t you pick Buddhists who believe in reincarnation? That seems to be a bit nutty (or animists from Africa). So when a person picks a particular religion as you did, Christianity, then implies the people believing some part of it are nuts (disallowing their vote), that should not give us a clue to the reasons it was asked? PaulE, we are not the dumbkopfs that the Ken Jones, ichaelA types are.

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  40. Ken Jones Avatar
    Ken Jones

    Todd you seem to enjoy making a complete fool of yourself. Continue to enjoy your day and the days that follow.

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  41. Paul Emery Avatar

    You missed out on my joust Todd, that being that if we apply any kind of intellegence-rationality criteria to voting then how do we deal with religious views that deal with mythical definations of reality and history. You’re correct Todd, let’s include all religions in this expulsion.
    While we’re on the subject how is belief in reincarnation any different fundamentally from Guy in the Sky Christianity that has a judgement process that sends you either to heaven or hell based on some kind of merit system? It’s all faith based so why

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  42. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Sorry PaulE, as usual you misread my post. I am not excluding anyone from any religion as you seem to imply. You never answered my point about Lincoln etal, being Christians. So never mind, play your head games with Ken Jones, he needs your help.

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  43. Paul Emery Avatar

    Todd
    I am not suggesting that anyone not be allowed to vote because of religious fantasies. I was just questioning how that criteria fits in with Georges desire to apply some kind of test to screen voters. Obviously if history was part of the test anyone who believes that the world was created in seven working days would have a hard time relating to thousands of years of scientific observation. Also Noah’s Ark seems to be missing from serious history journals.

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  44. Gregory Avatar

    Paul, I’d say 98% of the people have a hard time relating to thousands of years of scientific observation. It’s just that the idiot right and the idiot left have different blind spots.
    The idiot left’s blind spots are resulting in the burning of food instead of feeding the hungry, and pretending that pouring billion$ into ‘renewable energy’ generation that is a factor of 6 more expensive than conventional sources somehow results in more affordable energy.
    At least the idiot fundamentalist rightwing doesn’t try to screw me over. They just don’t want to pay for your daughter’s elective abortion; the way around that is to pay for it yourself.

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  45. Russ Steele Avatar

    Gallop:
    Fifty-four percent of Americans have a favorable opinion of the National Rifle Association; 38% view it unfavorably. Views of the NRA have fluctuated over time — from a low of 42% favorable in 1995 to a high of 60% in 2005.
    DiFi’s Gun Control bill is going to die a slow death as many Senators, especially those Dems up for re-election in 2014, are going to make sure it never comes up for a floor vote.

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  46. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 342pm – I do agree that your questions that tongue-in-cheek ridicule fundamentalist Christianity, Judaism, and Islam have very little to do with voting qualifications, save your tacit assumption that all who so believe will seek to impose it on non-believers through some extra-legal device. There has been no evidence of that in US history.
    However, there is ample evidence that those who do hold fundamentalist beliefs have done a marvelous job voting over the last 200+ years to bring the Republic to its current state. And there is also ample evidence that those ‘president’s stash voters’ who hew to the collectivist line have here and elsewhere in the world brought upon all a heavy burden of autocratic governance.
    So I think if we decide to make progress on some minimum voter requirements besides those already imposed, then your questions regarding creationism, Noah’s ark, and (maybe next) the feeding of the 5,000 will contribute very little here save drawing a chortle or two from our secular humanist readers. But that’s only my assessment.

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  47. George Rebane Avatar

    By popular demand voter qualifications has become of interest to most of you. It is an important discussion that should be revisited from time to time in a democratic republic such as ours. Please continue your comments under ‘Who Should (not) Vote’
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2012/12/how-to-protect-school-children-in-schools.html

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  48. Paul Emery Avatar

    Gregory 27 December 2012 at 04:26 PM
    “At least the idiot fundamentalist rightwing doesn’t try to screw me over. They just don’t want to pay for your daughter’s elective abortion; the way around that is to pay for it yourself.”
    Oh if it were only that simple. It’s obvious that the real goal of the Christian right wing is to criminalize abortion not just to eliminate subsidized funding. Here’s the Repub platform on abortion which applies at the moment of cnception and would ban even day after contraceptives.
    “Faithful to the ‘self-evident’ truths enshrined in the Declaration of Independence, we assert the sanctity of human life and affirm that the unborn child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed,” the GOP platform states, according to CNN. “We support a human life amendment to the Constitution and endorse legislation to make clear that the Fourteenth Amendment’s protections apply to unborn children.”

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  49. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    By cracky you are all making such great progress towards protecting all the little kiddies. So say and Jesus Betterman, AKA, the desktop and the laptop, and the only two clock puppets out here, unless I have a multiple personality disorder of which I am unaware.

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  50. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 634pm – Posit that you are right. What should be done about the desire of the Christian Right to ban abortions?

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