Rebane's Ruminations
December 2012
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“Passion governs.  And she never governs
wisely.”  Benjamin Franklin

George Rebane

The 14dec12 Newtown elementary school massacre again brings out all of our weaknesses as an ignorant and free people.  And the pandering politicians and public media are already at the trough, feeding on and encouraging every imaginable emotion that short circuits reason.  I want to take a look at the next collective calamity we are adding to the current pile within the Beltway.

The national debate on the massacre and reawakening of more gun controls is being repeated in an extended comment stream below ‘Ruminations – 14dec12 (updated)’.  Predictably, the arguments highlight the main polarities that today define and divide us.  The discussion herein will be limited to the reasoning processes that are fueling the forecasts of new public policies promised for the new year.

In the above referenced post a liberal commenter declared that the Newtown evil arose out of an inbred quality of American culture displayed most gruesomely in the 19th century massacres of American Indians during the nation’s westward movement.  His reasoning strongly concluded that Newtown’s mass deaths were of a piece with those inflicted on the Indians, and therefore give rise to modern day mass deaths in schools, theaters, malls, and other places where people are tightly packed.  His summa is that “a death is a death”, therefore they should all be considered of a feather.  Several other liberal commentators were quick to join their support to this deductive delusion.


If we take a deep breath, step back, and throw a critical brain cell on the matter, then we can quickly organize mass deaths into a layered structure or taxonomy, and organize them into six categories as follows (other taxonomical variants will equally serve my arguments).

Categorized Mass Deaths
1.    War – transnational (public policy)
2.    War – internecine (public policy)
2.1.    Civil (Russian 1918-23, Spanish 1935-39)
2.2.    Punitive (War between the states – punish South)
2.3.    Genocidal (USSR-Kulaks, Germany-Jews, China-intellectuals, Cambodia-?,19th century aboriginal massacres)
3.    Accidents
3.1.    Occupational (mine disaster)
3.2.    Recreational (Titanic)
3.3.    Medical (‘medical mistakes’)
3.4.    Infra-structure failure (bridge, building collapses)
3.5.    Technological (rogue versions of AI, nano-bots, genomic accident)
4.    Ideological (terror)
4.1.    Biological (plague)
4.2.    Blast (bombings, 9/11)
4.3.    Chemical (poisoning)
5.    Criminal
5.1.    Collateral (pursuant to other criminal objective)
5.2.    Murder (purposive targeted killing)
5.3.    Insanity (deranged shooter)
6.    Natural
6.1.    Black Swans – Storms, Floods, volcanoes, earthquakes, …

What is quickly apparent is that the Newtown shootings of the deranged criminal kind (see 5.3), and the 19th century Indian massacres that resulted from the execution of a deliberate and purposive public policy (see 2.3) are totally different and of a different kind.  And perusing the above outlined taxonomy, we see that mass deaths come from many sources, in many forms, and for many purposes – in short, if anything, a death is definitely not a death.

But none of this will provide a detour in the progressive mind’s established progress toward critical thought.  More rational thinkers quickly understand that if the objective of any debate today is to devise ways to prevent future mass deaths, then we must examine a wide range of very different public policies that are appropriate for each of the above listed subcategories.

And now we come to deciding what if anything should be done in response to Newtown.  Again, reason calls for first attempting to find what the causes of such a massacre were that can be expected to realize again in the future, and what interventions are possible.  This is no simple matter, and most certainly not found in the simplistic progressive propositions put forth under my previous post.  For a counter to this, I posit that simple causes satisfy simple minds, and that is again bearing fruit nationwide under our pandering political leadership – especially those promoting a greater social agenda.

News pours in by the hour of fresh proposals for more control of guns, especially those designated as “assault weapons”.  All of the proposals circumvent any attempt at an objective assessment of what happened, save the obvious evidence that 26 people were shot with a semi-automatic rifle after which the deranged shooter killed himself.  And that is all our progressive legislative mavens in Washington need to go forth and add yet another layer of gun control to the pile of unenforced gun laws already on the books.  Subsequently, more previously normal and everyday behaviors by law abiding citizens will be criminalized with no promise of solving the undefined problem leading to the Newtown massacre of innocents.

To put this into an even more focused perspective, every decision professional and the extensive multi-discipline literature counsel that ‘Fire!, Ready, Aim’ is not the rational approach to a decision, and following that path almost always leads to later disaster and collateral damage.  Such counsel is given to patients, clients, corporations, and legislatures by psychiatrists, psychologists, family counselors, lawyers, corporate consultants, and purveyors/practitioners of the more technical decision sciences (full disclosure – I was employed in and contributed to the latter two fields).

As examples, consider the ‘ban assault guns’ and enforcement of existing gun laws issues.  Assault gun is an emotional label fostered by the ignorant, the agenda driven ideologues, and the sensationalist media.  An assault gun is a weapon currently employed by the world’s militaries in the business of war.  ‘Currently employed’ is the operational phrase here.  Back during the American Revolution a smoothbore flintlock musket was an assault weapon, but quickly lost that qualification when percussion caps and mass-produced rifling were introduced.

We can continue that analysis with every new introduction of firearms technology over the last 200 years that made the individually carried weapon lighter, more deadly, more reliable, higher rate of fire, and more capacious so as to increase the combat load of ammunition a soldier could carry farther.  A case in point is that today no weapon can qualify as an assault gun that is also not fully automatic with a rapidly interchangeable, large capacity magazine (not clip).  The sale of assault weapons has been illegal in the US for more than 75 years.  Semi-automatic weapons simply no longer qualify as military assault guns, except in the proposals of emotion reliant demagogues.

And that brings us to the relatively recent revision of how we understand the Second Amendment.  The progressive, who sees a sane society as one that is essentially a toothless ward of the state, dependent on it for every benefit of life,  will insist that only government should possess guns.  The road to that enlightened state is through the continual injection into the public forum of thoughts like recently uttered by President Obama, that “no one needs an assault gun to go deer hunting”, thereby including two shibboleths in one tidy little homily.  Three generations today have not been taught what our Founders believed about the maintenance of liberty under governments that by their nature have the tendency to become tyrannical.  (My expanded thoughts on this are expounded under the introduced notion of Par Force.)

Finally we come to the enforcement of existing gun laws which fill reams in federal and state legal codes.  The conclusion, as recently reviewed by Robert Leider at the University of Pennsylvania School of Law, is that government’s record of enforcement is one of extensive delinquency, especially the important ones to prevent massacres like Newtown.  As examples, Leider points out that the states’ lack of reporting required of known mentally unfit persons led to two such multiple killings.  And the same delinquency very likely contributed to Newtown shooter Adam Lanza’s not being identified and logged as a “mental defective”, thereby bringing in other legal requirements for the possession and storage of guns at his residence.

However, what government does do well in this arena is to make difficult for legally competent citizens, and limit the acquisition and use of firearms which it considers can be used against its overreach of our freedoms.  A government that trusts its citizens would maximize the availability and prudent use of firearms in the land (e.g. Switzerland); a fearful government banish
es legal broad-based ownership of weapons that can approach par force with the local constabulary.

So in this environment of sustained quasi-hysteria, the nation goes forth to draft new laws supposed to prevent mass killings, whose causes are unknown, through politically propitious strictures whose only effects are to salve the irrational and temporary components of our media-fostered national grief.

[18dec12 update]  Expanding on reasonable responses to the killings, David Kopel, research director of the Independence Institute, wrote in the 18dec12 WSJ ‘Guns, Mental Illness and Newtown’.  In it he notes that “Today, Americans are safer from violent crime, including gun homicide, than they have been at any time since the mid-1960s.”, and relates these statistics to what laws were on the books when.  At the same time he notes the increase in mass shootings over the years, and it is these mass shootings that give rise to the stoked public hysteria we are witnessing today.

Nowhere are school children in greater danger from such mass killings than in Israel.  That country long ago adopted a sane policy of school security that includes firearms available to staff.  Marc Kahlberg gives an overview of that country’s approach in ‘Why there are no school shootings in Israel’.

[19dec12 update]  Dr E. Fuller Torrey and Doris A. Fuller of the Treatment Advocacy Center present a cogent case – ‘The Potential Killers We Let Loose’ – for reducing the likelihood of mass killings of the type that occurred in Newtown.  Their analysis reveals the role that observable yet untreated mental illness continues to play in such massacres.  Moreover, the roadblocks that our light thinking civil libertarians have placed in having such people treated has definitely been a contributing factor to these tragedies.  And it turns out that Connecticut happens to be “among the worst states” to permit early and effective treatment of the mentally ill.

[20dec12 update]  This morning President Obama called for rapid action – within the next 30 days – on new gun laws, citing the need for speed while public passions about the Newtown killings are still high.  Meanwhile his light thinking legions are telling everyone that the current legislative panic is based on reason – one local worthy even went so far as to declare “There is no emotional response here…no passion driven public policy…this is just another example in a long string of examples of why we need a new approach to gun regulation and public health.”  It seems that some progressive pikers are not listening very carefully to their thought leader.

What has yet to enter the national debate is a reasoned discussion of the 2nd Amendment’s purpose.  As all, save the statist progressives, know, our Founders were not silly enough enshrine the citizen’s ability to hunt deer in the Constitution.  History had already shown them the efficacy of an armed population in denying tyranny a foothold in the form of a crushing central government.  For that they established states’ rights as distinct “laboratories of freedom”, and made sure that guns would not be taken from the people, whether they belonged to the encouraged state militias or not.

This factor has seen little coverage in the growing debate.   But it is the prime factor for defending the maintenance of par force (q.v.) in the land, or as close to that as can reasonably be expected.   In the absence of such discussion we have seemingly reasonable people looking to stop Newtown like killings while agreeing that banning semi autos, magazine restrictions, and ammo permits seem like a reasonable step forward.  The question is ‘reasonable step forward to what?’

That this aspect of gun ownership seems to garner less and less coverage when gun control discussions come up – focusing instead on deer hunting, personal protection, and target shooting as the reason for having guns – is of more than passing interest.  For example, even a more conservative news outlet like Fox News still considers it prudent to be silent on the matter.  To me that appears like the progressives’ generations-long comprehensive embrace of government has won the day in the public media.  Moreover, the topic is also becoming a difficult one to raise on many blogs and the social media (e.g. consider its almost total absence in the comment threads that populate the comment stream of this posting).  It’s as if the Founders’ concerns are now far behind us.

ArmingSchools
[21dec12 update]  The NRA completed its deliberations on the Newtown killings and issued its considered recommendations (here).

The main being to have schools manned by armed guards as are other facilities – stadiums, airports, malls, … – where high densities of people congregate.  This is a half way step to the Israeli solution which has had an exemplary record of success in a much more dangerous environment.  NRA Executive VP Wayne LaPierre also recommended that governments at all levels begin enforcing existing laws and establish a long sought “robust National Instant Check System, used to perform background checks on would-be buyers at federally registered firearms dealers.”

These are policy responses which RR and many of its readers have backed over the years.

And as is typical with the growth of the nation’s lunatic leftwing, demonstrators were again in place attempting to disrupt the NRA’s presentation of its recommendations.  Against such useful idiots the nation remains defenseless.

[more]  We are constantly reminded of the stratospheric hypocrisy of the rabidly liberal media.  446 school aged children have been shot so far this year in Chicago, to the sounds of crickets from the lamestream.  (more here, and H/T to reader) They have been predominantly black and other minorities, but no one gives a shit – not their neighborhoods, not their community leaders, not the city’s leadership, not the state of Illinois, not the federal government, …, no one.  There is no outrage, no outcry, no demonstrations, no progressives lamenting the murder of innocents.

The sleazebag politicians don’t want to highlight this marathon of murder because they have no solutions and don’t want to draw attention to the desperate environments that government programs have created in the city.  And most certainly they don’t want to shine a light on the obvious truth that Chicago and Illinois have the most draconian and restrictive gun laws in the nation.  Instead, the progressives’ policy is to just let them quietly die year after year, and then make a big noise when white kids are killed in a rare event that suddenly needs all kinds of displayed hysteria to show proper concern, and remove more freedoms from the entire population.

Posted in , , , , ,

265 responses to “Fire!, Ready, Aim – Panic-driven Public Policy (updated 21dec12)”

  1. Paul Emery Avatar

    From above:
    “A government that trusts its citizens would maximize the availability and prudent use of firearms in the land (e.g. Switzerland)”
    Switzerland’ some interesting details:
    Would this be acceptable George from your view?
    For expedience I used Wiki which of course can be challenged,
    “Basically, the sale of automatic firearms, selective fire weapons and certain accessories such as sound suppressors (“silencers”) is forbidden (as is the sale of certain disabled automatic firearms which have been identified as easily restored to fully automatic capability). The purchase of such items is however legal with a special permit issued by cantonal police. The issuance of such a permit requires additional requirements to be met, e.g. the possession of a specific gun locker.[citation needed]
    “To carry firearms in public or outdoors (and for an individual who is a member of the militia carrying a firearm other than his Army-issue personal weapons off-duty), a person must have a Waffentragschein (gun carrying permit), which in most cases is issued only to private citizens working in occupations such as security.
    Guns may be transported in public as long as an appropriate justification is present. This means to transport a gun in public, the following requirements apply:
    The ammunition must be separated from the gun, no ammunition in a magazine.
    The transport has to be direct, i.e.:
    For courses or exercises hosted by marksmanship, hunting or military organisations,
    To an army warehouse and back,
    To and from a holder of a valid arms trade permit,
    To and from a specific event, i.e. gun shows.[8]

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  2. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 228pm – That code forms a good basis for a predominantly mono-cultural society with a low crime rate. Most certainly it satisfies the par force condition. For the US, as a very multi-cultural society with no predominant culture, I would extend it to include liberal issuance of CCW permits.
    It is also interesting to reflect on the Anders Breivik massacre in Norway, a country of about 5M people. There were over 70 people killed in a land with extremely strict gun laws. Pro rata, on population alone and assuming the deranged distribute equivalently, the US would have to experience over sixty such massacres to keep pace. The point is that deranged people and religious zealots (e.g. ragheads) will find ways to ‘express themselves’ in almost any environment that provides what we would deem an acceptable quality of life.

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  3. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    Let me ask you for suggestions as to how such disasters can be averted? Is there any additional legislation you would propose?

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  4. Gregory Avatar

    How does one stop one deranged person to kill people in a free and open society?
    How does one even suppose any guaranteed effective method for stopping one deranged person in a free and open society exists? There’s about 300 million people in the USA and, I’d guess, about 150 million with below average mental stability.
    Here’s an interesting factoid for Paul:
    “Connecticut Senate Bill 452 was proposed in February “to enhance the care and treatment of persons with psychiatric disabilities in both inpatient and outpatient settings.” But the bill was defeated in March, with opposition calling it “outrageously discriminatory.” The ACLU said the bill would “infringe on patients’ privacy rights by expanding [the circle of] who can medicate individuals without their consent.
    Had the AOT bill been passed, it would have given the state the right to institutionalize a person who is mentally ill for treatment if the state has enough evidence to believe that the person could be a danger to himself or the community.”
    http://connecticut.cbslocal.com/2012/12/17/connecticut-mental-health-bill-defeated-months-before-deadly-school-shooting/
    Regarding the Swiss law on the subject, bring it on, I can live with it. Please send me my fully automatic, selective fire Obama Assault Rifle and 24 rounds of ammo ASAP.

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  5. Paul Emery Avatar

    Yeah Gregory
    Judging from attitudes expressed in this blog it’s likely that some of us would be institutionalized as crazy by those with opposing views if they had the means.
    Seriously, it’s a tough call to institutionalize or drug someone based on weird behavior. Do we need more mental health facilities, yes indeed but that’s not the answer. I personally favor restrictions on assault rifles and weapons and that’s likely to be a popular call next year. Will it help? Perhaps it will if it restricts accessibility to some degree from dangerous people.
    Switzerland has strict rules about transporting guns that allow possession at home but not on the streets without due cause. The idea is to have an armed populace available as a militia if needed. The personal weapons of the militia are kept at home as part of the military obligations, That’s different than personal self defense or as a counter to government forces.

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  6. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 344pm – By the law diminishing (probabilistic) returns, it will be impossible to avert such disasters with 100% reliability. Neither of us would want to live in a society wherein that might be made possible.
    Acknowledging the beneficial impact of widespread legal weapons in society, I would suggest that the first step in a positive direction would be to have a more realistic and henceforth more comprehensive ability to identify, treat, and, if necessary institutionalize people the federal law labels as “mentally deficient”.
    Progress there would require overcoming some of the insane suits that the oft-misguided ACLU brings to bear that result in the certifiably insane having the same freedoms of action as those not so burdened (Gregory’s 348pm addresses this also). A middle ground in such a more enlightened society would be designations of troubled people/kids whose presence and residences require special care in the ready-availability and storage of firearms. In short we must become a more discriminating citizenry, and walk away from wholesale laws and regulations that paint with the broad brush.
    Your thoughts?

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  7. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 432pm – Your assessment about the Swiss is effectively wrong. The Swiss most certainly carry military arms with great frequency as any short drive through Switzerland will confirm. The Swiss are a people who love shooting sports in which they participate with their true assault rifles. And don’t believe for a moment that the Swiss affection for firearms does not include a centuries long distrust of governments degenerating to tyrannies. Recall that Switzerland does not have a central government to speak of, everything is done and controlled as locally as possible.

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  8. Paul Emery Avatar

    George writes
    “The Swiss most certainly carry military arms with great frequency as any short drive through Switzerland will confirm.”
    The minimal research I have done on the topic (Swiss Guns) differs from your view. From Wiki subject to correction. Feel free to update me if you have better information.
    “Carrying guns
    To carry firearms in public or outdoors (and for an individual who is a member of the militia carrying a firearm other than his Army-issue personal weapons off-duty), a person must have a Waffentragschein (gun carrying permit), which in most cases is issued only to private citizens working in occupations such as security.
    It is, however, quite common to see a person serving military service to be en route with his rifle.
    Conditions for getting a Carrying Permit
    There are three conditions:
    fulfilling the conditions for buying a permit (see section below)
    stating plausibly the need to carry firearms to protect oneself, other people, or real property from a specified danger
    passing an examination proving both weapon handling skills and knowledge regarding lawful use of the weapon
    The carrying permit remains valid for a term of five years (unless otherwise surrendered or revoked), and applies only to the type of firearm for which the permit was issued. Additional constraints may be invoked to modify any specific permit. Neither hunters nor game wardens require a carrying permit.[citation needed]
    Transporting guns
    Guns may be transported in public as long as an appropriate justification is present. This means to transport a gun in public, the following requirements apply:
    The ammunition must be separated from the gun, no ammunition in a magazine.
    The transport has to be direct, i.e.:
    For courses or exercises hosted by marksmanship, hunting or military organisations,
    To an army warehouse and back,
    To and from a holder of a valid arms trade permit,
    To and from a specific event, i.e. gun shows.[8]

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  9. Brad Croul Avatar
    Brad Croul

    School principals and officials should be allowed guns just as airline pilots are allowed.
    I don’t think the 2nd amendment says what types of arms are allowed to be borne by the populace. And we have already said that machine guns, grenades, RPGs, etc. are not allowed without special permit. So, we have already started limiting our “right” to bear arms.
    Assault weapons are only useful for killing/maiming multiple humans (or zombies) in fast succession, or hunting deer by the high beams of moving vehicles at night in rural neighborhoods.
    Grow up and give up the glorified Rambo delusions already. Or,
    get one of these and try some trap and skeet!
    http://www.defensereview.com/stories/aa-12/20_shots_result.mpg
    http://www.defensereview.com/exclusive-video-aa12-machine-shotgunfrag-12-grenade-weapon-system-test-fired/

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  10. George Rebane Avatar

    Re PaulE’s 515pm which did not respond to my answer to his 344pm question, but simply repeated misleading assertions on Swiss firearms policy.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nf1OgV449g
    BradC 538pm – Given the low probability dangers to children in schools, it might make a lot of sense to keep appropriate firearms in rapid access locked (and effectively hidden/camouflaged) containers throughout a school, similarly to how fire extinguishers and first aid kits are available when needed. Teachers would receive appropriate training in firearms and use protocols. A thought worth pursuing.

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  11. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    I don’t think I would have to go too far back on these threads to find posts calling teachers incompetent, greedy, under-trained, lazy, overpaid, public employees–or to find concern about arming park rangers and Department of Commerce police, due to creeping government powers. Now you want to issue them firearms and expect them to face down armed crazies in body armor? What would make you think they could do that if they can’t even teach our children? Oh….wait…they did that unarmed and in the face of almost certain death at Sandy Hook…. I stand corrected!

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  12. George Rebane Avatar

    Re SteveF’s 629pm – ‘Erect straw man, ignite same, stand back and enjoy the warm glow.’

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  13. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    Exactly what assertions in my entry are incorrect? The video you linked was consistent with what I posted. It was very short on details. Can you provide me with more to support your view?

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  14. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    George what did I say that was inaccurate? These are not straw me. They are the facts, form these very pages. Many posters here have disparaged public employees, specifically teachers, in exactly the way I describe above. And many have pointed out that arming government employees was a creeping loss of liberty. I am merely pointing out the incredible inconsistency and hypocrisy of your positions.

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  15. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    oops, ‘straw men”.

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  16. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 647pm – My carefully chosen word was ‘misleading’ not ‘incorrect’. The overall purpose and tenor of your cut&paste is that in Switzerland it is difficult to possess and carry guns. This is not true. As discussed in the video, existing Swiss laws purposely make it easy to be in possession of a modern military weapon for a number of reasons, hunting not being one of them.
    And having been to Switzerland a number of times, it is unusual to drive along a road and NOT see a Swiss riding, say, a bike or motorbike with an assault gun slung on his back. They are no doubt transiting between gun club, firing range, home, or … . The point being that the Swiss are always armed and ready with multiple firearms along with a combat load of ammunition as required by law to be in the home. For centuries the Swiss have taken their freedoms seriously.

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  17. George Rebane Avatar

    SteveF 659pm – you posted snark, and have little desire to discuss the topics I introduce on RR. I have made a detailed report and case (along with citations) about the unusual arming of multiple government departments/agencies. These don’t denigrate government employees, other than the obvious incompetency of many teachers that have been the subject of national alarm. However, other commenters may not have been so generous.
    You unfortunately have yet to display the discriminatory abilities to differentiate between the recent increase in armed federal agencies and my introduction of the notion of making firearms another piece of life-saving emergency equipment available to the school staff. In your case (as the record on these pages memorializes) snark rules, because all that eludes you is branded hypocracy. As long as you keep it civil, you are most welcome to keep exhibiting your values, mores, and reasoning powers to RR readers.

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  18. Paul Emery Avatar

    Fair enough George. You can interpret what I said to be misleading if you like but it’s the best I could find to any details of Swiss gun laws, far more thorough that the ra ra video you presented.
    So here’s a question for you. Do you think gun owners should be required to lock up their guns and be held responsible if they become available to non registered users through negligent security?

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  19. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 928pm – Since guns are deadly weapons, they should be kept secure from any illegal use that would cause harm. However guns are secured, gun owners are already held responsible if they are used to cause harm by anyone (except if they are stolen in a criminal act). There is and should be no requirement to have a gun be used only by “registered users” for legal activities.
    I notice that you have yet to answer my 440pm – it all seems to be the same ol’ same ol’ liberal inquisition here.

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  20. Paul Emery Avatar

    I’ll give it a go George
    “Acknowledging the beneficial impact of widespread legal weapons in society, I would suggest that the first step in a positive direction would be to have a more realistic and henceforth more comprehensive ability to identify, treat, and, if necessary institutionalize people the federal law labels as “mentally deficient”.”
    Would that involve some kind of special white suit cops who could capture and incarcerate those someone designates as “crazy” ? What kind of judicial process do you propose to make that determination? It’s ironic that Ronald Reagan as Governor cleared out our institutions of thousands that had been institutionalized by sending them home or back to the streets.
    “Progress there would require overcoming some of the insane suits that the oft-misguided ACLU brings to bear that result in the certifiably insane having the same freedoms of action as those not so burdened (Gregory’s 348pm addresses this also). A middle ground in such a more enlightened society would be designations of troubled people/kids whose presence and residences require special care in the ready-availability and storage of firearms.”
    Are you saying that there should be special storage accommodations in households with designated mentally unstable occupants? Sure, why not.
    “In short we must become a more discriminating citizenry, and walk away from wholesale laws and regulations that paint with the broad brush.”
    What laws specifically do you refer to?

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  21. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    How to do it? Simple, you, or a company you pay a premium to, posts a $1000 bond for each gun you buy, at the time of purchase. If you can present the weapon to your local sheriff one year later, the bond required drops by 20% for each year you can present it. If you “lose” it, if you can’t show you’ve sold it to a legitimate dealer, you now owe the bonding company $1000 + whatever fees you agreed to. The $1,000 winds up in the victims fund. You WILL keep your gun LOCKED UP. You WILL NOT SELL it to some creep on some dark street. If you have to pay, you bet your sweet bippy you will not add to the problem. And if you “lost” it, you are prohibited from buying another one for one full year. You say it can’t be done??? HA!
    Oh, you want to by another gun? Cool, bring in and show your last five purchases to the local sheriff, first, and get a certificate of “Responsible Gun Owner and Retainer.” Now you can buy another.
    BTW, seems to be that I should be credited with suggesting locked containers for fire arms on campus in this blog first. Go back and find Greg’s derisive remarks about watch towers containing exactly those kinds of cases, proposed by me.
    Stolen guns should make no difference, you should still be responsible for any criminal acts. That way you’ll go to the expense of making very secure safes in your vehicles as well as your residences and businesses. Oh, they got the drop on your and your CCW weapon became part of their spoils? T.S. You still lose the cash because of your incompetence. Next time hire professional body guards.

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  22. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    Maybe you just aren’t cut out to be the 007 of CCW-dom.
    “But I’m a good person and have never screwed up! Why should I have to pay ?” Well, why should you have to buy liability insurance and uninsured motorist insurance to drive a car legally in California? The same principle is in play here, After five years with responsible ownership, you pay nothing. Try that with car insurance. 80% second year, 60% third year, 40% fourth year, 20% fifth year, 0% sixth year. In the meantime, the state has a resource for helping victims and their families, when bullets cause collateral damage to totally innocent bystanders who were minding their own business.
    You should view it as a small sacrifice to make sure that those scamming the system and causing carnage go out of business, because they can no longer play games at gun shows and on street corners. Responsible gun owners need to take responsibility for the current terrorism our NRA supported gun law system has created. Who do you love more? The NRA, or the kids in your neighborhood school yard?

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  23. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    Seriously, a self made Taxonomy of Mass Death that places the US Civil War into a category of a “punitive” action?
    I think that about says it all.
    A United States Civil War based on an inherent flaw (slavery) in our original Constitution, exacerbated by a dynamic that encouraged two clearly different and competing economic and social systems with supporting civil governance structures to flourish on the same continent, sparked by a difference of perspective on the relative rights and responsibilities of the states vis a vis the federal system as defined in the Constitution, coupled with competition for expansion of those competing systems across the continent, is relegated in one simple categorization by Mr. Rebane as “punitive”. Its not a Civil War, like Russia or Spain, which is defined as a war of competing factions that claim to represent the civil society of a nation (the historically accepted definition since first used in the English Civil War) it is a Punitive War, or a war of a dominant force within a nation punishing a minority faction. In other words it is “The War of Northern Aggression” or the “War of Southern Independence”.
    Yes, I think that about says it all.
    It is hard to talk about the ‘facts’ when the ‘facts’ one side brings to the table are so biased, and clearly intended to enlist others in their bias through guile, that the premises must be challenged before the dialogue can begin.
    That is not snark–its just the truth.

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  24. Ryan Mount Avatar

    Has everyone had a chance to review the Justice Department’s Quick Reference on Firearms?
    http://www.justice.gov/usao/ut/psn/documents/guncard.pdf
    Note, the above “cheat sheet” does NOT mention mental illness, but I did some digging and you’ll find this from the same code directly following the code for illegal aliens:
    “Act (21 U.S.C. 802));(4) has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;”
    It’s pretty clear and a quick (5 minute) read. In a nutshell, if you break one of the laws, all of the provisions seem reasonable to me, you’re going to jail for at least 5 years, and in most cases 10 years. This is just for illegal possession, not the actual conduct of a crime.
    We really just need to enforce the laws we currently have. Or are we finally willing to admit that our government is incapable to enforcing the laws already on the books other than in a symbolic fashion?

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  25. Ryan Mount Avatar

    BTW, for those of you with more time, you can read the the entire 18 USC Sec. 922 “Unlawful firearm acts” from 01/03/2012 here via this rather ugly URL:
    http://uscode.house.gov/uscode-cgi/fastweb.exe?getdoc+uscview+t17t20+540+0++%28%29%20%20AND%20%28%2818%29%20ADJ%20USC%29%3ACITE%20AND%20%28USC%20w%2F10%20%28922%29%29%3ACITE
    Or we can just repeat what our favorite faction has told us via their talking points. Who needs source material when someone else can tell us what to think, eh?

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  26. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    Ryan, I would be the first to agree that part of the solution to reduction of gun violence may very well lie in enforcing laws already on the books. If that is the case with some laws then the question becomes how do we pay for it.

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  27. Ryan Mount Avatar

    Well, I agree Steve. It’s just like many (well, most) of the laws we already have on the books that go unenforced. Many (most) of the current ADA laws come to mind where the government has basically given up by allowing the enforcement to be conducted in civil courts by private citizens. Even when citizens attempt to adhere to the laws, they are often subject to citizen lawsuits. It’s a shakedown. Just think about that for a minute. It’s smells an awful lot like vigilante enforcement. Should we do that with firearms and allow enforcement in the form of civil suits? Should we sue Comcast for allowing pornography to be displayed on our kid’s iPads?
    Anyhow, regarding firearms, we either need to pour money into enforcement, and frankly who really wants more police/government spying on our every move (some do, I don’t like those people), or we just need to amend the Constitution to more carefully define what is a reasonable firearm. Good luck with that last one. 🙂
    BTW, I do not own guns nor to I particularly like them. I am however, quite good with a baseball bat for those uninvited criminals wishing to explore my home.

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  28. TheMikeyMcD Avatar

    Common sense cannot be created via law(s).
    Of mandates and whatnot….
    Don’t Despair: Remember Only 25% Of America Voted For Obama
    http://freedombunker.com/2012/12/18/dont-despair-remember-only-25-of-america-voted-for-obama/#

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  29. TheMikeyMcD Avatar

    Reminder: EVERY single law requires a government gun for enforcement. History warns us to be more fearful of a government with guns than a coward lunatic with guns.
    http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM
    “I would rather be exposed to the inconveniencies attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.” Thomas Jefferson

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  30. George Rebane Avatar

    Re SteveF’s 615am – I stand with those historians and political scientists who have the strong and narrow definition of ‘civil war’ as an intra-national war wherein two (or more) factions each seek to become the governing faction of the nation. That was not the case in the intra-national war of 1861-65. The war was misnamed a civil war for political purposes, primarily to garner northern support for it where many people saw it as ‘Mr Lincoln’s War’. (Lincoln went to war to preserve the Union. Whether that was constitutional or not is another matter.)
    My taxonomy says nothing about America’s tragic episode of slavery. But if that is all the critical purchase a liberal can have on any given post in RR, then, of course, it must be must be grasped.
    Re RyanM’s 625am – his point reinforces those made here before, and brings to more intense question why we should rush to put another dubious law on the books that serves no beneficial purpose, further limits individual freedoms, and endangers the Union.

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  31. L Avatar
    L

    How about universal military service on the Swiss or Israeli models. And, yes, girls are included. Right after high school. I leave it to the rest of you to figure out the many, many, good things that would result. L

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  32. Gregory Avatar

    Ryan, you might want to put a sign outside your home to inform any and all that it’s a gun free zone. Be proud 🙂
    Frisch, you were flinging mud the day of the massacre, just not here.
    Paul writes “Do you think gun owners should be required to lock up their guns and be held responsible if they become available to non registered users through negligent security?”. Being required to lock weapons away is tantamount to the law requiring they not be available for use and that’s been found to be unconstitutional. And negligent storage is already criminalized; for example, if a child gains access to a firearm that has not been adequately secured and is caught with it. I don’t think anyone here has any qualms with that law.

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  33. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    Ignoring what I’ve posted, and still having no solutions of your own. Typical.

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  34. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    “Don’t Despair: Remember Only 25% Of America Voted For Obama ”
    ~ TheMikeyMcD | 18 December 2012 at 08:17 AM~
    and even less voted for the Tea Party pro NRA anti gun control favorite.

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  35. Gregory Avatar

    “Ignoring what I’ve posted”
    Nothing you’ve written of any substance has been ignored.

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  36. TheMikeyMcD Avatar

    I, admittedly ignore AT LEAST 99% of DK’s posts. I refuse to listen to hate driven agendas.

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  37. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    Greg, our house, like yours, from the street, is invisible, and that was part of at least my choice in choosing the property. Of course, inside our house, via cameras, the street, yard, and gate are visible, and sensors call our attention, when necessary.

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  38. Ryan Mount Avatar

    Ryan, you might want to put a sign outside your home to inform any and all that it’s a gun free zone. Be proud 🙂
    Pffft. Ha. 🙂 I can do quite a bit of hurt with a 34″ piece of hickory; maybe more. Besides, I’m a terrible shot. I can’t even hit the toilet properly. (TMI?) Guns don’t scare me. Dumb asses do. Maybe, I’ll just sick one of the teenagers on an intruders. They’re terrify them out of the house with requests for gas money.
    Doug-
    There is no “solution” other than making sure bat-shit crazy people don’t have guns. All that has to be done is enforce the current laws. We get a BOLD tag for that. Even the most staunch gun advocates agree that felons, the mentally ill, unsupervised children, illegal aliens and other mentioned in the Federal laws. For the most part.
    The fact of the matter is some people don’t like guns like they don’t like gay marriage. It’s irrational.

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  39. Ryan Mount Avatar

    Even the most staunch gun advocates agree that felons, the mentally ill, unsupervised children, illegal aliens and other mentioned in the Federal laws.
    Sorry. That should read: Even the most staunch gun advocates agree that felons, the mentally ill, unsupervised children, illegal aliens and other mentioned in the Federal laws shouldn’t have guns of any kind.

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  40. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    The you advocate the government coming through all homes that might have mentally ill (teenagers) living in them and checking to see if everything is locked up tight, to prevent another Adam Lanzi case? How else would you, “enforce the laws?” such that nobody else gets shot?

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  41. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    George, you’ve got to dump Greg’s post too, as that what prompted mine. (Rebane deleted a comment of mine in re Greg @ Gregory | 18 December 2012 at 09:49 AM

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  42. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    “Unsupervised children” is the key. Don’t arm the teachers. Children in schools are supervised so you could legally arm them. I had a shotgun and started hunting when I was seven and knew more about gun safety than most adults. Besides what kid wouldn’t want to go to school packing a 45 on their hip. If little Johnnie gives you some lip or tries to steal your twinkies, blow him away like in the movies. There just aren’t enough guns in the world and we should do everything we can to expand gun ownership. Besides guns don’t kill people, bullets do. I had an Iraq war vet tell me that every household in Bagdad has at least one AK47, most more.. you can get them on the street for ten bucks. They don’t seem to have any problems with gun violence do they? Think of the increase in gross domestic product. Instead of buying cheap Asian electronics Americans should focus their spending on cheap American assault rifles and handguns.

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  43. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    Joe, let’s see, if we can get just one more Sandy Hook, maybe we can beat 2005?
    http://www.politicususa.com/2005-69-preschoolers-killed-firearms-compared-53-law-enforcement-officers-killed-line-duty.html

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  44. Ryan Mount Avatar

    Doug-
    First off, I believe all teenagers are mentally ill to some degree.
    Secondly, exactly. It ain’t gonna happen because I think you could make both a 4th Amendment. So the (not sure what to call people of Doug’s persuasion, but I don’t think it’s anti-gun) crowd that wants more regulation. They frankly believe this is in the spirit of the 2nd amendment, and that their form of “regulation” includes prohibition (I’ve chosen my words carefully here for effect) of certain classes of weapons.
    Now, despite that everyone and God now knows I’m armed with nothing more than a piece of hickory, rabid teenagers and a couple of unfriendly dogs(forgot to mention that), I’m at a personal loss to understand why anyone would want military-ish grade weapons. I mean I understand their reasoning, which is that old George Mason “[t]o disarm the people…was the best and most effectual way to enslave them” line. So, OK. You weirdos. But you know what? There’s some truth to Mason’s comments. And If a gun owner is law-abiding, who cares? It’s not an out-moded reality. (I guess it is if you’re a Star Trek fan, but even they had phasers.) But it reveals a pathology that I think inflicts some thinkers: that the government is benevolent. It’s not. No government in our brief human history has been. Just ask the people of Yemen about the USA’s current benevolence.
    But like I said, if we go out to the shooting range in Nevada City, it’s best that you stand well-back. Like at 49er fun park. I’ll join you later to hit the snot out of some baseballs.

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  45. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    Place your bets. Who will win? The NRA or the general public? NRA’s Facebook page was taken down immediately, by the NRA, and: http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/owner-of-nations-largest-gun-manufacturer-selling-company-because-of-sandy-hook-shooting/news/2012/12/18/56770

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  46. Joe Koyote Avatar
    Joe Koyote

    When will the insanity end? America is the most violent first world country on Earth. The problem is a culture where commerce is more important than the well being of the nation as a whole. It has already happened right here in our sleepy little town. When do we start caring about people’s lives more than weapons manufacturers profits hidden under the guise of “freedom”. The second amendment was about a citizens right to arm themselves (a well regulated militia) against a tyrannical government home and abroad. That 17th century notion no longer applies. We have a military funded by more money than than most all other nations combined, so we don’t need a militia to protect us from foreign invasion. Us invading them is a much more likely scenario. There is no chance what-so-ever that an armed rebellion will take place if a dictator or other evil cadre ever gains power in America, so that argument is absurd as well. If we adhere to the failed policies of the past the violence will just escalate as the poor and crazy get hungrier and more desperate is a country where greed has replace compassion.

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  47. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    I traveled over to the purple blog to see what the nuts from the left were saying about guns. I ran across this from Ben Emery. I now understand why he is such a political loser. Within his own statements he contradicts himself and his understanding of reality is non existent. Read it and have a good chuckle.
    “Rebane and his blogoshere cohorts are so far off when it comes to understanding the actual vision or intent of the reasons/ purpose for the revolution and creation of the United States of America it is scary. The revolution was fought to establish a government that was derived by the consent of the governed not to continue being victims of insane and immoral foreign power. The Rebane’s of the world promote the idea of a nation without or with very little government intervention. This idea could be true if that what the majority of the governed wanted but throughout American history we have always moved towards more democracy not less until the TP congress of 2010 who received the lowest approval rating in American history at 10% or so. Check out this graph but again those who like the billionaires and TP vision might think this is a good thing. “

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  48. Paul Emery Avatar

    Todd
    You’re not one to accuse anyone of being a political loser. With the exception of the House you haven’t voted for a winner in a national election since Bush the Second. To educate our readers Todd was a political starlet in the early 80’s who was soundly ko’d in the prelims when he tried for a bigger stage. That was about the time his real estate fortunes were slapped down by the Republican majority of the Board of Supervisors.

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  49. George Rebane Avatar

    DougK 1054am – have deleted no comments here. (Did delete a thread discussing body parts on ‘Ruminations – 14dec12’)

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  50. Douglas Keachie Avatar
    Douglas Keachie

    Oh an George, reality bites with the Zombie remark you also deleted, or were they one and the same?

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