Rebane's Ruminations
October 2012
S M T W T F S
 123456
78910111213
14151617181920
21222324252627
28293031  

ARCHIVES


OUR LINKS


YubaNet
White House Blog
Watts Up With That?
The Union
Sierra Thread
RL “Bob” Crabb
Barry Pruett Blog

George Rebane

In presidential debates I haven’t seen a better performance than Romney’s since Reagan took the stage in the 1980s.  While everyone and their brother is publishing voter sentiments on the debate, Gallup is strangely silent.  It’s as if the debate never happened when you look at their website.  I was hoping to use their poll to adjudicate a prediction competition (see ‘Prognosticators – An invitation to the dance’). The clearest voter sentiment poll comes from CNN with 67% saying Romney won, and 25% saying Obama won last night’s debate.


But what interests me most is the copy put out by many pundits this morning on the nature of the debate.  The consensus there seems to be that the debate was a bit too obtuse with numbers and facts and all those specifics.  This is a bit troubling, because it is a commentary on what the electorate really understands about how the country works.

I look at three levels of ‘information’ that candidates can deliver in such debates.  The most detailed is the kind that Romney mostly, but also Obama, delivered last night.  Going into specific dollar amounts, time periods, tax rates, and growth rates that decorated their plans and with which they painted their opponents plans.  This approach assumes that the listeners have some basic matrix of knowledge ready to receive, organize, and then communicate the whole as all the numbers are hung in their proper places.

The next lower level of specificity is the declaration of their individual futures in broad adjectival terms like ‘full employment’, ‘more rapid growth’, ‘balanced budgets’, ‘tax breaks for the wealthy’, ‘level playing field’, and so on.  These are formed into arguments and counter arguments salutary to oneself, and showing the opponent in the worst light.  The strength of this debate format is all in the delivery, and the emotions evoked in the listener.  Unless there is a surprising one line zinger, the results are primarily determined by the strength of what behavioral economists and psychologists call confirmation bias (q.v.).  Basically, both candidates deliver big dollops of pabulum hoping that it comes across as substance to untutored ears.

The third level gets into political and economic philosophy in which both candidates describe the meta-structure and operating characteristics of how a society works.  Here we will encounter such notions as ‘collectivism’ defined, the Laffer curve celebrated or castigated, the blessings and evils of laissez faire markets, the role of taxes in a recovery, the intrinsic responsibilities of government, the proper relationships of worker productivity and workforce levels as they affect GDP and the nation’s overall quality of life, the desired role of the US as world hegemon, and so on.

What almost every political junkie will agree on is that the middle level communicates ‘best’ with the electorate.  After such a debate no one will complain that the candidates “spent a surprising amount of time on granular policy details.”  Pure pabulum always comes in a perfectly clear package.  It is there where the real connections are made with voters who think they understood the most of what was said.

My own preference is to witness what we did last night – the ‘granular’ level of discourse – or the third level.  Truth be told, I’d like to hear most about the candidates’ meta level views of how they think humans work in different sizes of groups, what they consider as natural constraints on human cooperation, what meta-principles and constants should we derive from our Constitution, the role of culture(s) in maintaining America as a sovereign nation-state, the role of such states in the world order, and so on.  To me understanding these beliefs of the candidates is most important, because it is these that will drive the general thrust of their policies while in office.  The details will be mangled here and there by exigencies of uncontrolled events, politics, and God knows what else.

[5oct12 update]  The 5oct12 lead editorial in the WSJ sounds like a compendium of RR posts characterizing the liberal dialectic in its commentary on Obama’s recent debate performance.  Significant is the wider perception of how the Left uses baseless bogeymen of their own construction that they assign to their opposition, and then, shifting between great glee and high dudgeon, proceed to demolish.  The other approach used not only by Obama, but also an established practice of the lamestream, is hoovering (q.v.) – just ignore and never mention the inconvenient facts.  In this case Obama’s first term record has been completely hoovered and will continue to be so treated until 6 November.

In their post-mortems the Left is driven to develop desperate dust-ups as to why their Messiah finally got his socks wet traversing the Galilee.  Beyond impediments like hypo-oxygenation, we now hear that Romney cheated by using notes.  This was not a junior high school pop quiz.  Both men had notes, and they should have.  The United States and the world are complex systems described by uncountable numbers and processes.  To talk, let alone debate, effectively about these, one should have at his disposal notes.  Obama was so busy studying and writing his own notes that he could barely look Romney in the eye.  Not looking compelling and important issues in the eye is a longstanding character weakness of his – we recall the litany of events ranging from the Gulf oil spill to the recent murders in Benghazi, the latter he has yet to look in the eye.

This south-Chicago demagogue was definitely shown to be out of his league by his flubbed ‘3AM telephone call’ even before he got to Debate1.  And as his foreign policy onion gets peeled back layer by layer, we are finding out how truly incompetent are the White House sophomores now in power.  In the larger scheme of things, no one wants to think about ol’ Joe being a heartbeat away from the Oval Office – talk about making Sarah Palin look absolutely brilliant.  But we will have to confront the ramifications of that on 11 October for ‘Paul & Joe Show’.

Pardon me while I go light another candle for the President’s continued good health.

[8oct12 update]  Given the lamestream’s spin and lamentations, if ever there was a picture worth a more than a word or two …

ObamaDebateVictory

 

Posted in , ,

124 responses to “Debate1 Thoughts (updated 8oct12)”

  1. George Rebane Avatar

    TomK 909pm – Honestly, I think my 320pm is a pretty comprehensive reply to your take on jobs and their contribution to an economy. Very little of your description jibes with my study and experience, but that is the delightful part of our multi-faceted belief systems. That is, until the dysfunctional one begins to dominate and destabilizes the nation.
    A correspondent sent me a piece about Scotland that should warm your heart in how progressively government revenues are collected and redistributed there. Enjoy.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/9593135/Nine-in-ten-Scots-living-off-states-patronage.html

    Like

  2. Russ Steele Avatar

    Paul, do not read this. Move along nothing of interest here.
    An update to an election forecasting model announced by two University of Colorado professors in August continues to project that Mitt Romney will win the 2012 presidential election.
    According to their updated analysis, Romney is projected to receive 330 of the total 538 Electoral College votes. President Barack Obama is expected to receive 208 votes — down five votes from their initial prediction — and short of the 270 needed to win.
    The new forecast by political science professors Kenneth Bickers of CU-Boulder and Michael Berry of CU Denver is based on more recent economic data than their original Aug. 22 prediction. The model itself did not change.

    Like

  3. Paul Emery Avatar

    Russ
    You can find polls to support anything Russ. This was a headline in The Blaze along with stuff like this. Hardly a credible source.
    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/baseball-star-turned-theologian-exposes-all-you-need-to-know-about-free-will-claims-it-proves-gods-existence/

    Like

  4. Gregory Avatar

    Pew has fine progressive streed cred, and, as they tied Rasmussen for being on target 4 years ago, they deserve cred from conservatives and libertarians for being serious pollsters.
    http://www.people-press.org/2012/10/08/romneys-strong-debate-performance-erases-obamas-lead/
    They show Romney winning the debate 66 to 20, and leading Obama 49 to 45 among likely voters.
    Gallup has also released their debate poll… they have it 72 to 20.
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/157907/romney-narrows-vote-gap-historic-debate-win.aspx

    Like

  5. Russ Steele Avatar

    Paul@05:58
    Yes there are poll and then there is this poll:
    The Pew poll is devastating, just devastating. Before the debate, Obama had a 51 – 43 lead; now, Romney has a 49 – 45 lead. That’s a simply unprecedented reversal for a candidate in October. Before Obama had leads on every policy issue and personal characteristic; now Romney leads in almost all of them. Obama’s performance gave Romney a 12 point swing! I repeat: a 12 point swing.
    And the women’s vote? Obama had it by 18 points and now it is even. Things are not looking good for Obama. The O had better be on his game in the next two debates or it is all over. Some on left thinks that he threw the election, as he is ready to move on. The Hawaii home was to be ready by mid Jan 2013. Looking good for Romney and Conservatives every where. Some now think the Senate is back in play. Stay tuned.

    Like

  6. TomKenworth Avatar

    You’d think that thoe at the top would be satisfied making and amassing 10 to 20 times their wealthiest and most talented employee, but greed seems like a drug, where the addict needs more and more, and can never satisfy their cravings. Carlin says it all here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PkWf9M3rUw offensive to some language.

    Like

  7. George Rebane Avatar

    TomK 1057pm – what even motivates you to consider such questions that are the private matters of a private business? You seem to have this deep class warfare instinct premised on those who earn more are necessarily taking it out of the pockets of those who have earned less. Historically, that has always been an attribute of a Marxist/Leninist. Why don’t you just declare, and make a case for why that is the best way to organize society?

    Like

  8. Ryan Mount Avatar

    Everyone, and I mean every human being, is greedy.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A
    As Friedman sarcastically points outs, it’s always someone else who’s greedy to the self-righteous.

    Like

  9. TomKenworth Avatar

    Rebane 6:58 AM, Jesus seemed immune to such cravings, along with Albert Schwitzer and many other greatly admired leaders. That’s enough reason for me. I guess you prefer the hard scrabble dogpile lifestyle as a model for the society you want to live in. Every person a type one Robert Ringer and up front about it, and who cares about those may have been born with, or inflicted with, handicaps of one sort or another. There should be no veterans hospitals, and the country could only send folks off to war who asked for compensation packages that would be adequate to make up the difference.

    Like

  10. billy T Avatar

    Tom, at least you are consistent. Remember when they spent 50k for the round-dee-bout art on E Main St? Oh, the outrage on the Union’s former forum. One person said they should take that 50k and feed poor families. I pointed out that if you gave 50 families a grand each, they would be fed or helped for awhile, maybe pay the rent for each for a month. A year later the money would be gone and no round-dee-bout art.
    The trouble with greed is it not desiring a house, salary, bank account, vehicle or pretty wife just like the guy on the hill has. No, the problem with greed is one lusts after that person’s house, salary, bank account, vehicle and his pretty wife.

    Like

  11. George Rebane Avatar

    TomK 904am – Wow, did I say all that again??!! You liberals sure have some kind of hyperthyroid problem with logic when you turn on your thinkers.
    billyT’s 927am pretty much nails greed in the operational sense.

    Like

  12. TomKenworth Avatar

    So your concern is not with your own greed which got you 5 to 7 houses (mccain) but rather with the other guy being envious of what you have, and him wanting to take it away from you so that he has it and you don’t.
    Interesting concept.

    Like

  13. TomKenworth Avatar

    BTW, I do not consider my beautiful wife a possession.

    Like

  14. TomKenworth Avatar

    I consider the RoundDeBout art a necessary safety feature, pretty-fied. It focuses the mind on looking left, and not looking across. It will make a fitting memorial for a high speed chase someday, and perhaps the perp’s vehicle can be incorporated into it. Or maybe just a textster.

    Like

  15. billy T Avatar

    Mr. Tom, your broken thinker is really spinning this fine day. OK, I will try a different tack. Who are you to have a say in what goes on in a private contract between people? You have no say. I have no say. The US Constitution keeps prying eyes and meddling minds and even gubbermint itself out of private contracts. The separation of contracts and state.
    Who am I to say 30 or 50 houses or 200 yachts is enough or not enough. It is none of my business. It was never any of my business nor shall it ever be.
    I have no say in how much someone in the private sector (Tom Cruze, Peton Manning, Barbara Streisand) makes and it is none of my business.
    Month after month, year after year, you appear so consumed by what someone else makes or how they spent their money. It is a most distasteful envy character flaw that always comes forth in your writing. Yes, you sprinkle humor in sometimes. But, Geez Tom, what is this big obsession with what others make and how we should run around telling people how to live their lives and what to do with their lives.
    Sometimes I think you believe the captain of the cruise ship makes too much money compared to the housekeepers. And you believe you know exactly where that too much money line is and you even think you have a say in the matter. If you mind your own business, you won’t be minding mine….as the country song goes. I have no tolerance for control freaks.

    Like

  16. Russ Steele Avatar

    Another comment that Paul should ingnore – Move on Paul, nothing here
    NYT’S NATE SILVER EXPOSED AS OBAMA PROPAGANDIST
    There’s no question that nationally and in the ever-important states that swing, Governor Mitt Romney is not only tied or ahead but also enjoying a real surge after his stunning Wednesday night debate victory over President Obama. The Obama campaign is panicking, the Romney campaign is emboldened, and even the media has been forced to declare the race a toss-up.
    Moreover, every historical measurement, from unemployment to income to gas prices, spell trouble for the incumbent. Therefore, there’s absolutely no question in the minds of any objective person, left or right, that the right race is up for grabs and the momentum is with the GOP nominee.
    And yet, in the middle of it all, we have one desperate, bleary-eyed ObamaTruther: Five Thirty Eight’s Nate Silver.
    From his lofty perch at the New York Times, it is apparently Silver’s job to — not eflect reality — but to use some super-duper secret sauce that runs Objective Reality through a left-wing number cruncher, and sprinkles it with happy dust in order to reassure bubbled liberals everywhere that Obama’s going to be okay.
    At least I’m assuming that’s Nate Silver’s raison d’etre, because there’s absolutely no other way to explain how any intellectually honest analyst who’s crunching the latest poll numbers (which Silver is)  could possibly have Romney’s chances of victory sitting at … 25.2%.

    Read the rest from Breitbart.com HERE. The article concludes:
    And yet, people take Nate Silver seriously and still will even after today. Part of it is willful ignorance; part of it is out of necessity to boost Obama; and part of it are those dumb enough to still be impressed by the mantle of the New York Times.
    But make no mistake, Nate Silver is pure snake oil salesman, no better than a Politico or BuzzFeed Politics. Actually, he’s closer to these lying media fact-checkers that hide behind manufactured facts.
    The only difference is that Silver’s spin and bias and lies of omission are hidden behind math.

    Like

  17. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    PaulE will owe me 5 buckos. Romney is pulling even and even ahead. The Tsunami is beginning.

    Like

  18. billy T Avatar

    Gentlemen, please don’t count your chickens before they hatch. Obama spent all Spring trying to convince everybody that Romney was Attila the Hun. The debate perhaps surprised a bunch of the 67 million viewers that Romney had 5 boys and can sniff out bull pucky..
    Remember this is the same dirty tricks Chicago machine and they are going nowhere. To lessen the impact of the debate, they spent all week saying “Liar, liar, pants on fire!” about Romney. Today our President mentioned Big Bird 8 times in a speech and The Libyan terrorist attack zero times. They are still pounding their heads against the wall going bonkers about Bain Capital and tax returns and Mrs. Romney riding horses. They know of no depths that are too low to gather mud to sling.
    We are just coming off turn two and sprinting down the home stretch. No time to rest on our laurels. As I once replied to Paul E, it is not wise to take the amour off before the battle is over. Nay, the battle is just beginning.
    I have seen the Big Mo before. Momentum. It is not a bounce or a bump. It is being propelled with increasing velocity and not much can stop it. Bump of the Big Mo? You decide.
    Following up on Russ’s comments, it is kinda cute to see the libbies’ heads spin like Linda Blair in the Exorcist. All that green pea soup spewing forth is adorable. The demon is still alive. But, here is to the present moment: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/10/09/liberals-make-stink-about-pew-poll/

    Like

  19. TomKenworth Avatar

    If Romney kills Big Bird, the terrorists have won. Are you really concerned about the terrorists?

    Like

  20. Gregory Avatar

    Big Bird’s boss makes something like $700k a year and the company makes a bunch of money. It’s a private business, completely separate from PBS, which doesn’t make a cent from all of the merchandising and movies that exposure on PBS enables.
    PBS would survive just fine without Federal sponsorship, which represents a small amount of their total income.
    Keach/Kenworth, just imagine, if the Feds stop funding them, the Feds can’t control them. Next stop, pulling Federal money from CPB and, downstream, KVMR.

    Like

  21. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    But keep those tax breaks going to the oil companies — sweet!

    Like

  22. Gregory Avatar

    Wow, the original Doug Keachie sock back in the open, changing the subject because the last snark snipe went nowhere.
    First, paying less taxes on the wealth you create is different than an out-and-out grant; what PBS gets is patronage. Second, there’s no good reason I can think of that should single oil companies out as virtually the only industry that shouldn’t get depreciation allowances that are tailored to the realities of that businesses. Third, there’s more profit in a gallon of gas for the government than there is for the oil companies, so in a real sense, oil companies are geese that continue to lay golden eggs, and, sad to say, the Keachies of the world are intent on carving them up.

    Like

  23. Earl Crabb Avatar

    PBS has some great programming, but it’s time to get the politics out of it. Give people the choice of supporting it on their cable bill for a couple bucks a month so anyone who subscribes can afford it. Then it would truly be “public” television and we wouldn’t have this argument every four years.

    Like

  24. Tbetterman Avatar

    Tom’s real ID is now considered a sock? GregLogic is in fine form this morning. Typepad might be having trouble with Twitter Accounts logging in, you know. Only a total fool would miss the point of the educational aspects of PBS, for those in all homes, but especially those in homes with inadequate adults running the show. Or would you prefer to go back to the Dark Ages, when a substantial number of kids showed up with no concept of the alphabet at all? That would certainly improve our educational system, NOT!
    Isn’t it odd that clean coal comes to us in trains (look at those ads on tv), not trucks, yet those pushing that form of energy, also love to shoot down AMTRAK, which will result in more cars pounding the crap out of, and over crowding, our aging rubber tired infrastructure. Hope you enjoy your 1.4 billion worth of overcrowding the highways, may you be lucky enough not to be in an ambulance on said roads.

    Like

  25. Tbetterman Avatar

    http://www.eia.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/weekly_petroleum_status_report/current/pdf/highlights.pdf
    Seems to indicate a current total useage USA wide of about 9,000,000 gallons of motor vehicle gas per day, or roughly .3 gallons per day for every citizen. Federal gas taxes are roughly 19 cents per gallon. That would be .19 x 9,000,000 for the government’s daily take. Yearly that amounts to $624,150,000. $624 million and change. Gregory Goodknight has just gone on record as saying the combined income from the oil companies is less than 1 billion dollars. Prove me wrong, and even adding in the state taxes isn’t going to save you.
    Even if I am off by a factor of ten (and I may be) you are looking at a $140 BILLION dollar money tree: http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/green/news/2012/02/07/11145/big-oils-banner-year/

    Like

  26. Gregory Avatar

    George, you now have three Doug Keachie socks on the same thread. Not a record, but it’s getting there.
    Tb, you’ve stretched that illogical condom past its breaking point and made a mess.

    Like

  27. Gregory Avatar

    Earl, not only does PBS have good programming, there isn’t the dearth of choices that existed when PBS created, and PBS manages to raise the vast majority of their operation costs from shaking down the companies that fund programs (though the credits have become more like commercials over the years) and money from stations who then participate and extend the PBS begfests that pass the hat to the viewers.
    PBS can stand on its own. So can Big Bird.

    Like

  28. George Rebane Avatar

    Administrivia – Am on travel, bad connectivity, back tomorrow. Everyone is assigned to watch the Ryan/Biden mismatch tonight.

    Like

  29. Tbetterman Avatar

    Show me your math Greg. You are wrong somewhere.

    Like

  30. Tbetterman Avatar

    So can your airport, Greg. User fees should be cranked to match costs. You are being subsidized by our desire for fire protection, oh socialist you.

    Like

  31. Earl Crabb Avatar

    Tbetterman 8:49 – Having entered the TV market before PBS and Mr. Rogers, my education was supplied by Bugs Bunny and Popeye. Does it show?
    George – I really want to watch the debates, but the A’s game is on! I’ll wait for the highlights after the game.

    Like

  32. Gregory Avatar

    Tb (cough, cough) your problem is assuming Federal excise taxes per gallon represent all of the tax burden on the companies large and small who are involved in getting petroleum out of the ground and into your tank. “What a maroon! What an ignoranimus!” especially since all the taxes they pay are actually paid by customers buying the end product. You’re advocating cutting everyone’s nose to spite your face.
    Earl, it’s a crying shame what’s happened to Saturday morning TV. I too would wake up early on Saturdays in order to catch Mr. Wizard and it wouldn’t be over until Porky Pig said “That’s all, folks!”. The Bugs Bunny/Roadrunner Hour was the pinnacle; the day Mel Blanc passed away, Warner Bros. was handing out a memorial toon with all the characters Blanc voiced standing sadly and silently behind an old fashioned studio microphone.
    It was quite a crowd.

    Like

  33. Michael Anderson Avatar

    Exactly, Earl.
    Bam-bam and Mr. Green Jeans won’t be seeing any live screen time at our house tonight.

    Like

  34. Walt Avatar

    WOW “O” has brought all the nations closer together according to Joe.. He got that right,,, United against us.

    Like

  35. Michael Anderson Avatar

    Hey Walt,
    Biden wins by default, since Bam-Bam is still in diapers, and Romney’s 5 boys are so busy cruising the Conan O’Brien circuit that they don’t have any extra time to serve their country in the Army, Navy, Air Force, or US Marine Corps.
    Unlike Biden’s son, who is an Army JAG officer. Money talks, bullshit walks folks. Romney’s son’s are bullshit walking, and it’s pretty embarrassing. When I hear Romney and Ryan talk about foreign policy, it’s like listening to another chicken hawk, Rush Limbaugh, discuss military issues. MONEY TALKS, BULLSHIT WALKS.
    Get some skin in the game and get back to me, Romney and Ryan. F’ing pussies.
    “‘With all due respect, that is a bunch of malarkey,’ Biden said when Ryan accused the White House of projecting an image of American weakness to the world.”
    I have no truck for hypocritical cowards…
    Michael A.

    Like

  36. Tbetterman Avatar

    Hey Greg, I gave you a head start by suggesting the state taxes. You made the claim, it’s up to you to back it up.
    “Third, there’s more profit in a gallon of gas for the government than there is for the oil companies, so in a real sense, oil companies are geese that continue to lay golden eggs, and, sad to say, the Keachies of the world are intent on carving them up.”
    Prove it. Go ahead, figure out all the other taxes you want, and the leasing fees and the payroll taxes, etc. It a long ways from 1/2 billion to 140 Billion. Waht does that airport cost, and how much of it are you paying for it? I remember your LW tactic last time we had this go round, when you tried to intimate that al of the cost of a gallon of AV gas taxes, instead of the 19 cents actually charged. You and Paul Ryan, two peas in a LW zombie pod.

    Like

  37. Tbetterman Avatar

    I think we should have sent a camera to the bottom of the Indian Ocean, attached to Osama’s body. Then we could truly project to the rest of the world, Obama’s supposed weakness. Biden did a great job tonight.

    Like

  38. Ryan Mount Avatar

    Michael-
    I think you make a good point regarding belief vs substance. The Romney camp is taking the traditional Republic line that the current Democrat is making us weaker abroad.
    I do not think that anyone(enemies/friends/Canadians) feels we’re weaker, not with our 2150 active(not to mention the ~8000 stockpiles) nuclear warheads and our massive navy, for starters. We’re more of a threat, if anything.
    But Obama Administration is clearly disorganized and not doing it’s parental duties in keeping the kids from running around the house with squirt bottles and sharp knives. I think that might be a deliberate policy.
    But as with any fear-based pep talk, there always has to be a monster, even if they look exactly like us:
    http://www.cracked.com/blog/5-reasons-humanity-desperately-wants-monsters-to-be-real/
    “Crime rate in America has been falling for 20 years, somehow 70 percent of Americans think it’s getting worse.”

    Like

  39. Gregory Avatar

    Tb/Keachie, if you want to find information on oil company profits per gallon, I’d suggest googling the term, “oil company profit per gallon”.
    Total flowage taxes (Federal, state and local) paid by Californians are about 68 cents a gallon and that looks to double or triple with cap and trade carbon taxes next year.

    Like

  40. Walt Avatar

    LOL Mike A. Even CNN has Paul winning last night.
    Joe laughed himself off the stage.
    Joe is his own worst enemy. He even screwed up the terrorist attack questioning. Yup,, Joe “F”ed up good on that.
    Can you tell us just which Hollywood type tried to give Joe some acting tips? Joe sure didn’t pay any attention to those either.
    We know when Paul nailed the questions, and stuck it to “O” and Co. because Joey started laughing. Just like when Gore did his “sighing”. Same game, different tactic. Still backfired.
    “O”‘s poll numbers are even deeper in the crapper today. You can thank Joe for that.
    You guys better find a crisis that’s too good to waste if you want to stand a chance. You sure blew the Libya one. That one just came back and took a chunk out of your butt.

    Like

  41. Tbetterman Avatar

    No Greg, you made the statement, you defend it, and quit trying to pretend CA state taxes are the average for the entire USA. Even if they were, that only gets you up to 1.5 billion, far short of your goal, your ship of foolish numbers is way overloaded, you’ll never get off the ground, you airport runway Freddie the Freeloader. You made your factoid up out of 19th century ether, using your Ouija board, and you’ve been caught, admit it, you’re “completely wrong” just like Romnetta, you’ll just have to cry over your spilt milk.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=completely+wrong&hl=en&lr=&prmd=imvnsu&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=SUV4UOabBIOnigLi9YHQCg&sqi=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1772&bih=939

    Like

  42. Ryan Mount Avatar

    I think Biden damaged, maybe severely, the campaign with his snarkiness and rudeness. He certainly had the partisan faithful waving the victory flags, which is what you’re seeing in the “we won” aftermath from dedicated Democrats.
    But for the undecided voter, he came across as very arrogant. And the undecided voter is very sensitive to partisan wranglings. Which is why Romney was so successful last week, whether you agree with what he had to say or not: he sounded Presidential, calm, reasonable and frankly less partisan.
    The ENTIRE, and this is not an overstatement, Democratic strategy since January has been to paint the Republican candidate as a Right Wing extremist who is out of touch with the electorate. Even Romney has aided in this campaign on several occasions.
    But something radical happened last week. Romney decided that he actually wanted to win, and moved toward the center. And better for him, the GOP faithful approved! And the independents, sense a middle opening up, moved there.
    Now the Democrats have a couple of options:
    1) Call Romney a liar, which just makes them look like arrogant assholes (see Biden above)
    2) Move to the center like Romney
    3) Play dirty, and I mean very dirty perhaps exceeding the lie levels they believe Romney’s engaging in. (hey, if you can’t beat em’, join em’. After all, we’re talking Chicago politics here.)

    Like

  43. Tbetterman Avatar

    Ryan, upon being asked what he alone could bring to the office, inititially mumbled out, “honesty,” and then verbally backtracked remarkably fast.

    I found that remark to be covered up so fast, it does indicate a quickness of mind, a very, very, deceitful mind.. He said, in response to what he as a human would bring to the office, “Honesty” and then, realized his mistake, and covered by making it into “honestly”.
    What a word to do it with!

    Like

  44. Gregory Avatar

    It appears we’ve gone from partisanship to post-post partisanship without the administration’s promised post-partisanship ever seeing the light of day. In the immortal words of Rahm E, “We have the votes. F*ck ’em.”
    Ryan, watching tivo’d Morning Joe on MSLSD, Tom Brokaw made a strong point that it’s inappropriate to laugh during a discussion of thermonuclear war involving Iran.
    There’s already a Republican web commercial featuring Biden’s antics; I expect them to make a lot of effective commercials aiming at the ‘undecideds’, who will see it as evidence that Obama/Biden does represent the mindless partisan bickering they thought they voted against four years ago.

    Like

  45. Tbetterman Avatar

    Romney has two things left to do to make it “right” with the American people:
    Apologize to all the folks he offended and mis-categorized.
    Decide EXACTLY who and how many make up that class of people who are as he described, and which states they live in. Otherwise he must declare that there are no Americans who fit into those categories.

    Like

  46. Tbetterman Avatar

    Greg, of course, being caught, will now ignore his mistake and any references to it altogether. It’s a common pattern for him, and the Republican ticket.

    Like

  47. Gregory Avatar

    “Play dirty, and I mean very dirty perhaps exceeding the lie levels they believe Romney’s engaging in.”
    Ryan, I don’t for a second think they think Romney or Ryan is lying, just that they want people to judge them to be lying. That’s what partisan hardball is all about, especially among the left who think any statement that is false from their point of view means that person across the aisle is making a statement that is also false from their point of view.
    “Bush lied, people died”. That was all about Bush’s statement that British intelligence believed Saddam’s Iraq was seeking uranium yellowcake in Niger, and guess what? British intelligence still thinks Iraq was in Niger for yellowcake.
    In the old days, a lie was considered to be intentionally making a statement the speaker knew to not be true, but the BSNBC crowd think’s it’s any statement they don’t want to believe.

    Like

  48. Gregory Avatar

    Keach, you can find multiple references yourself. And so can anyone else.
    Please note the flowage taxes also don’t include the federal, state and local corporate income, property and all the other taxes paid by all profitable companies, large and small, that make up the energy sector.

    Like

  49. Tbetterman Avatar

    True to form, Greg.

    Like

Leave a comment