Rebane's Ruminations
August 2012
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Mike McDaniel

Any quality strategy should include a performance matrix to analyze said strategy.  The progressive strategy, jump started in 1913 (16th Amendment and Federal Reserve Act- later amended in 1977), put on steroids under Franklin D Roosevelt’s “New Deal” and Lyndon B. Johnson “Great Society,” has failed Americans.  If the intention of the progressive movement was birthed by virtuous or evil hearts is a completely different debate.  Performance metrics used to grade the impact on either the individual or society as a collective shows that the progressive movement has failed (continues to fail).

This analysis will in large part ignore the desecration of individual liberty and focus on the deterioration of the quality of life of the collective due to progressive policies.


The following tenets are at the heart of the progressive strategy:
•    Politicians, government planners and bureaucrats (Federal Reserve, “Department of XYZ”, etc) are required in order to provide equality to society through the sacrifice of individual liberty.
•    Politicians, government planners and bureaucrats are capable of managing, manipulating and forcing the economy in a manner that serves society; through law (controlling interest rates, regulations, tax code, fees, etc).
•    Politicians, government planners and bureaucrats are required to protect citizens from themselves, bad luck and the acts of others (via regulation, educations, etc).
•    Politicians, government planners and bureaucrats can be trusted with power.
•    Assets (private property) are first and foremost the property of the government.
•    Policies designed to provide ‘safety nets’ for ‘unlucky’ citizens (lost jobs, limbs, health, etc) are a fundamental right and providing for such will benefit society.

Providing equality, through force, is an immoral and futile exercise.  Despite onerous employment laws, irrational powers granted to employee unions (public and private), a progressive tax system, countless regulations bought by special interests equality has not improved.  Wealth equality (“Wealth Gap”) is unchanged from 1913 to 2008 (the top 1% of society still hold approx 18% of the total wealth).  Progressives don’t dispute the wealth gap (or the highly comparative “Income Gap”), they simple choose to ignore the fact that the same gap existed before their ideology took root.
 
The mandate of the Federal Reserve is ‘price stability’ and ‘employment.’ The objective of every decision by the Federal Reserve is focused on either/both decreasing inflation or combating unemployment. How is the Fed doing?  A dollar in 1912 would be worth fewer than 5 cents today. Fail.  Today’s unemployment rate of 8.3% is over double what it was in 1912.  The recent ‘great recession’ marked the highest unemployment rate since 1977 (when the ‘unemployment mandate’ was signed into law).  The Federal Reserve has obviously failed its mandate.
  
The impact of regulations seems to be working against society.   Habit derived ailments rise (pick your data point, one example, obesity has increased from 45% of population in 1965 to over 70% in 2005).

Despite more regulations the number of disabled Americans is at an all-time high (and rising). Shouldn’t increased regulations equate to decreased disabilities?
 
Despite all the safety nets (including but not limited to unemployment insurance, workers compensation, public education, government sponsored career enrichment programs, etc) and regulations dependence on government is at an all time high. Keeping inflation neutral in the calculations, more than 15 times the resources were committed to paying for people who depend on government in 2010 than in 1962. 70.5% of federal spending now goes to dependence-creating programs, up dramatically from 28.3% in 1962, and 48.5% in 1990. Today US government spending on dependency programs (entitlements, education, farm subsidies, housing, food stamps, disability) is more than the total discretionary income of all Americans combined.   Soon the resources of the independent will not be enough to provide for the dependent.  This reality is smacking much of Europe in the face.   [Here we must ignore the notion that some progressives may see government dependence by society as an achievement]

The political process (and thus the rule of law) has been denigrated by the influences of corporatism (whereby corporations, labor unions, foreign nations, etc buy political influence). Limit the power of government and you will limit the ability of special interests to buy special treatment.  Witness the collapse of sustainable/healthy farming (growth of agribusiness to an oligopoly with a nations food source in the hands of few), the media monopoly, skyrocketing healthcare expenses, rising education expenses, war on drugs and the never ending cycle of American led wars via the military industrial complex as some of the byproducts of corporatism. Corporatism is the result of government wielding too much power and not having the integrity (or checks and balances) to revere such power.  Corporatism is made possible by the progressive’s belief that governments are worthy of near-absolute power.
   
Public education is another great example of progressive government bureaucracy gone wrong.  The quality of education in the US continues to decline despite various reform programs and increased spending on education.  Average Scholastic Aptitude Test scores fell 41 points between 1972 and 1991 and the number of kids scoring over 600 on the verbal part of the SAT has fallen by 37 percent since 1972. Pick your study; US rankings among other nations in math/science are abysmal.

Progressive policies require (growing) government spending.  Unchecked spending has left the US (and Europe) drowning in debt.  The interest expense that taxpayers pay on US debt is up over 212% since 1980; in 1912 there was no national debt (thus no interest expense).  Today US debt is larger than the total 2012 US Gross Domestic Product. Today, the US Government debt is equal to over $139,000 per taxpayer.   Progressive policies have required an unsustainable/unserviceable amount of debt. The slightest increase in interest rates (currently being manipulated lower via the Federal Reserve’s Quantitative Easing Programs/monetization of debt) will have a dramatic impact on interest expense.  It should go without saying that increased interest expense decreases the funds available for government services and forces higher taxation that hurts the economy.  The growth in debt cannot continue.
 
In summary, the progressive strategy requiring the empowering of politicians, government planners and bureaucrats has failed both the American individual and American society as a collective.  The progressive strategy has brought about higher unemployment, inflation and (unhealthy) dependence on government. The power bestowed upon central planners has been pimped to special interests to the detriment of society.  Most importantly the progressive ‘holy grail’ of a more equitable sharing of wealth/income has not come to pass as progressive policies have had no material impact on equality as measured by the “Wealth Gap” or “Income Gap.” 

[Mr McDaniel is a wealth management professional in Nevada County, California.]

Posted in ,

193 responses to “American Progressivism – Epic Failure”

  1. TomKenworth Avatar

    Just as much as we would all defend this gun shop which is doing so much to promote a civil and intelligent discussion about the upcoming election:
    The gun shop called “Sacramento Black Rifle” sells a t shirt that declares:
    Obama loves America like
    OJ loved Nicole.
    6671 Blue Oaks Blvd
    Rocklin, CA 95677
    Get Directions
    (916) 771-3553

    Like

  2. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 1221pm – I’m sorry you didn’t understand my 1137am; I meant nothing in that to be degrading to you in any way. All I meant to say is that your ideology and zeal in promoting it scares crap out of me. And I would not be surprised if you returned the compliment. However, please note that I have spent five years publicly outlining why your collectivist ideas are a danger to our way of life, and I have continually elicited reciprocation as to why my ideas would in any way be equally dangerous – to no avail.
    Your citing the percentages of Americans who you believe agree with you ranges from the specious to the alarming. Most of those people couldn’t find Europe on the map, name their Representative, or understand the sources of monies the government spends (remember “Obama’s stash”). Besides, I have no idea how you mean to argue those percentages in the context of this discussion.

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  3. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    I posted the time and date of the comment that I was referencing. Please check it out for clarity. I was commenting that I thought there would be no circumstances that you would support the WW11 style of internment our of supporting the rights of American citizens. Apparently there are circumstances that you would and it appears that you do support the WW11 actions. If that’s not true let me know and I will stand corrected.
    “Bottom line – yes, I believe that a nation-state may impound citizens who bear certain similarities to its existential enemy, and whose sentiments and intentions are not known.”
    I thought pledging allegiance to this country was a requirement of citizenship. Does that not make their “sentiments and intentions” known?
    It took Ronald Reagan to offer some form of apology to the American citizens that were incarcerated.
    Your personal history is an entirely different situation. We are talking about American citizens in this country who were imprisoned and their property confiscated. This also happened to a lesser degree to German and Italian Americans.

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  4. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 158pm – Yes, now I see the date/time you inserted in the middle of your comment, but apparently it wasn’t clear whose it was. I’m trying establish a convention of such replies here, and it’s harder than I thought 😉
    Is the Pledge of Allegiance enough? Yes, both new, native, and old citizens all pledge many times in their lives. So did McVey and Maj Hassan. Does that make their sentiments known? NO!
    Our government from the Revolutionary War onward incarcerated untrustworthy citizens/residents in times of national emergencies. Lincoln brought it to a high art, and it was continued through WW2. Even though I wrestle with the distasteful notion of such actions, I can’t come up with a more benign or effective one. Can you?
    And fear not that I’m confusing my own interment with that of US citizens by the US. (We were kept there as pawns in the pre-cold war game between the US and the USSR.) I only meant to communicate that we know the feeling and the reasonableness of such interments in the general sense.
    Offering apologies in the aftermath, especially in light of injustices done, is only the decent thing and the least the government can do. Interesting that it took Reagan, an ex-CA governor and conservative, to do it.
    In sum, don’t think that I am waving the flag to have all American Muslims to be herded into the prepared FEMA camps on which I have reported here. I trust our loss of privacy to govt eves dropping is sufficient to vet the good from the bad among us.

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  5. Ben Emery Avatar

    George,
    That is nice to know that you aren’t trying to be degrading. I get it, you really oppose a society based on the wishes and needs of the majority of the people. That’s fine but I disagree.
    The reason for citing percentages was to show my ideas and opinions on many issues aren’t radical or fringe but instead are mainstream positions. I am about to scare the crap out of you even more, I would argue my ideology and positions would land me in the center left column. The current democratic party leadership takes a centrist right position on most issues due to their reliance of corporate and wealthy contributors to compete in elections. I would also argue your ideology and some on RR would land you in the far right column.

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  6. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 229pm – we’re getting warmer. Your statement of my opposition to a society is a bit simplistic and somewhat off target, but it plays well.
    I support the kind of society envisioned by the Founders – a democratic republic where the less well informed vote for representatives whom they can vet locally to champion their interests in the more complex world of a distant and pluralistic government. I oppose the standard fare of collectivists who pander ‘democracy’ to the ignorant as being the fastest way to an autocracy of their elite.
    The above preference was institutionalized by the Founders, for they knew that simple democracies are short-lived because people in the aggregate are not able to translate “their wishes and needs” into public policy and legislation. Lying to them that they can, especially in the context of large multi-cultural populations, geographical regions, and complex international relations, begins the deviltry in democracy. Nevertheless, that message is the extremely effective tool of the Leftwing activist/politico, especially as it lands on the responsive ears of their cognitively disabled, educationally unprepared, and economically (pre)dependent constituencies.
    I certainly hope that you are wrong about your position in the Left’s political spectrum. From the sample of my Democrat friends, they would place you in the left fringe that is also disappointed with Obama’s work and plans. However, for me to argue that point with you leads us on a sterile quest.
    But I am most interested in what understandings of my ideological stance would have you place me “in the far right column.”

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  7. THEMIKEYMCD Avatar

    Ben, is it safe to assume that you would accept a law punishing (taxing, etc) obese people if the majority voted for such a law (democracy)?
    Possible basis: obese people add to medicare expense, use more resources, etc.

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  8. TomKenworth Avatar

    For the average American racist idiot, the term “raghead” is too broad, as witness this:
    “Sikh rights groups have reported a rise in bias attacks since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. The Washington-based Sikh Coalition has reported more than 700 incidents in the U.S. since 9/11, which advocates blame on anti-Islamic sentiment. Sikhs don’t practice the same religion as Muslims, but their long beards and turbans often cause them to be mistaken for Muslims, advocates say.
    Sikhism is a monotheistic faith that was founded in South Asia more than 500 years ago. It has roughly 27 million followers worldwide. Observant Sikhs do not cut their hair; male followers often cover their heads with turbans – which are considered sacred – and refrain from shaving their beards.
    There are roughly 500,000 Sikhs in the U.S., according to estimates. The majority worldwide live in India.
    Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2012/08/05/4694916/police-dispatcher-shooting-at.html#storylink=cpy
    I again suggest using the less inflammatory “I-Borg” to more precisely describe those who use the Muslim faith as window dressing as cameoflage for their wild efforts at world domination, with them, of course, at the top. Any Muslim clergyman who disagrees with them will himslef become a target for their anger. Too bad we can’t separate out our racists and their racists and put them in an arena and close the doors and walk away.

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  9. George Rebane Avatar

    TomK 1240pm – I appreciate your well made points, and will consider them in the wider promulgation of ‘ragheads’. Fortunately the “average American racist idiot” is not likely among RR’s readers, we are all above average 😉
    However, your maintaining that Islam is being used “as window dressing as cameoflage(sic) for their wild efforts at world domination” is beyond a stretch. For the large fraction (above 30%)of Muslims who condone and approve of suicide bombings, for the tens of thousands who have declared their intent to volunteer, for the thousands now standing in line for martyrdom, and for the well over a thousand who have already given their lives for their faith, you have a macabre sense of humor dismissing them all as using their Muslim faith for camouflaging an alternative ideology that has successfully invited such wholesale slaughters at the cost of the perpetrators’ suicide. There is no evidence of such an alternative ideology being served by self-sacrifice.

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  10. Gregory Avatar

    “I get it, you really oppose a society based on the wishes and needs of the majority of the people.”
    Ben, the Bill of Rights and the Constitution are designed to keep us off the path of the French Revolution and the Cultural Revolution. No majority can usurp the rights of minorities, no matter who they be in whatever age. So claiming to represent “the people” doesn’t buy you power. Even the Occupy Wall Street crowd managed to separate into an upper crust and a ghetto in the first 6 weeks. So much for the 99%. think more 88%/11%.
    Interesting to see the Keachie sock and MAnderson getting together. Mike, you sure spend a lot of time trying to torment me rather than spend any time to right whatever the supposed wrong(s) is (are), which is one of the reasons why I don’t take you seriously. Sounds like a conspiracy, or, to more fit Keachie’s style, women’s roller derby.

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  11. TomKenworth Avatar

    “And Greg goes wide, taking a pass at number 19, Sexism, and under-throwing, as he stumbles downfield.”
    George, where does the 30% condone number come from, and what do you suppose the number is in the USA alone?
    In case you missed it: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/08/05/us-usa-wisconsin-shooting-idUSBRE8740FP20120805 I’m sure Sikhs everywhere, including those in Marysville, Yuba City, and Pinole, are thrilled with your rhetoric.

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  12. George Rebane Avatar

    TomK 224pm – In the US Reuters reported that already six years ago 25% of young American Muslims and about 20% of all American Muslims supported suicide bombings in some manner. The worldwide numbers are significantly higher than that, and I’m trying to recover the recent source for the 30+% number. But I think the point of tens of millions of worldwide Muslims supporting such acts of martyrdom is made.
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/05/22/us-usa-muslims-poll-idUSN2244293620070522

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  13. TomKenworth Avatar

    Are they Muslims first or terrorists first? How were the figures derived? This would indicate 1.5 million Americams in favor of suicide bombings, but just not by them personally, as the number of bombing in the USA so far, since 9/11 is what?

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  14. TomKenworth Avatar

    Would you describe our friends south of the border with an equivalent term for ragheads after they chanted “Osama?” If anyone does that again, I suggest all us patriots chant, “blub, blub, blub…blub, blub, blub!” Here’s an excellent follow through story on the issues:
    “http://laprensa-sandiego.org/editorial-and-commentary/commentary/usa-usa-usa/”

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  15. billy T Avatar

    The term raghead should never be confused with the endearing term diaper head. Diaper heads are intelligent, peaceful , polite, good American citizens from Indian ancestry. We embrace diaper heads with open arms as their skills are highly sought after by the likes of Microsoft and Apple. A raghead is a piece of filth that kills women, children, and non believers ON purpose. A wee example would be the Taliban tally me a bananas. They said if the US does not stop the drone attacks raining down on their ragheads, they would attack the UN folks giving polio shots to a wide area of Pakistani villagers. Seems there is quite an outbreak of polio in the region and as many as 2 million children could catch polio if not given the vaccine. Hmmmm. Let the children die in the name of Allah. F@#K the fuking ragheads. They were the ones that gathered all the citizens of a village in Afghanistan to watch a soccer game. The game turned of to be a fun filled event. Civilian men had their heads chopped off before the crowd and the soldiers played “soccer” by kicking the heads across the field. F@#K the fuking ragheads.

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  16. TomKenworth Avatar

    Well, I guess Reagan started it. “If you’ve seen one redwood, you’ve seen them all.” Certainly seems to be source of the right wing stereotyping. “If you’ve seen one member of a group you wish to stereotype, then obviously, you’ve seen them all.” And hey, if you mistake a Sikh for Al Qaeda, it’s the Sikh’s fault. What a wonderful world…

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  17. George Rebane Avatar

    TomK 557pm – that little repartee didn’t move the peanut ahead. billyT made a strong point which is the basis for the choice of ‘raghead’.

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  18. TomKenworth Avatar

    “Kaleka was not at the temple at the time of the shooting, but helped police interview witnesses in the aftermath. He said members described the attacker as a bald, white man, dressed in a white T-shirt and black pants and with a 9/11 tattoo on one arm — which “implies to me that there’s some level of hate crime there.”
    A law enforcement official briefed on the investigation confirmed the shooter was wearing a white T-shirt and did not have a bulletproof vest.
    Kaleka said the gunman started shooting in the parking lot, “then entered into the temple and proceeded to open fire.”
    “It seems the few casualties that have been divulged to me have been the equivalent of priests, the holy leaders of our people,” he said. “My uncle is one of the administrators of the temple. It’s mainly those individuals who have been targeted or shot. Maybe it’s because the ladies were fortunate enough to dodge it out, but so far most of the people I’ve heard have been shot and killed were all turbaned males.””
    OR in the minds of illiterate and uninformed racists, with the exceptions of Rebane and BillyT, “ragheads.”

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  19. George Rebane Avatar

    TomK 711pm – the rationality distribution of 310 million people does have populated tails that reach into the extremes. Trying to guarantee that nothing tragic comes out of there is extremely expensive to our QoL. Sadly, the killer was also an extremely ignorant individual. Education is the only acceptable solution.
    I wonder how many high schools today teach that turbans are worn by many cultures which don’t practice Islam, and that Muslim terrorists seldom wear turbans. Given the Muslim slaughter going on in the world, might that instruction not be a more important subject in school than some of the other PC topics forced down our kids’ gullets. This tragic event should serve as a national teaching moment.

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  20. Ben Emery Avatar

    No Mickey, that would be a law I would protest against and advocate civil disobedience to reverse. Laws do not equal correct or moral. I would have been an abolitionist, would have been a suffragist, fought for the right to organize and strike, and would have marched with Martin Luther King Jr.
    Here is question for you;
    Would you support the rounding up of Christians and putting Christians in jail without any due process, if say someone who considered themselves Christian bombed a government building killing and injuring hundreds of people? Most Christians would say he is not a Christian just as most Muslims would say that the Taliban, al qaeda, Hamas, and Hezbollah don’t represent Islam but rather distort it to make the religion fit their mission.

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  21. Ben Emery Avatar

    Billy T and George,
    Please tell me how you explain the difference between your definition of “raghead” vs “diaperhead” to a 5-15 year old who hears you using such language? Language that would be very offensive to people who wear turbans. Do you think the 5-15 year old would grasp and comprehend the nuance between the two and could identify it if they saw a turban wearing man walking down the street?
    In my opinion you’re perpetuating hatred and division along with creating a self fulfilling prophecy with that kind of garbage.

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  22. Ben Emery Avatar

    Before you start telling me how the Quran is violent listen to Phillip Jenkins interview. Does the term herem ring a bell on RR?
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124494788

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  23. TomKenworth Avatar

    Given that a Fatwa was issued on the life of a cartoonist in Denmark, based on his bomb in a turban cartoon, and there are tens of thousands of images associating turbans and Islam:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=muslim+turban+images&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=PBG&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=np&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=NEgfUPvOFueUiQKHvoHoBg&ved=0CFwQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=728
    530,000 or so to be more precise, I rather doubt that teachers would be even themselves be able to recognize the difference between an Islamic turban and a Sikh turban. I know I haven’t learned the differentiators myself, has George, has Todd? Too many students drop out of high school before they get to the classes in which such topics are covered.
    If we blame Bush, you blame teachers 50 times more.

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  24. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 900pm – No reader, including Mikey, is going to scroll through all Mikey’s comments, and then read them all until finding the topic area to which you are referring. With such ambiguously cited comments you are talking only to yourself, everyone else is too busy.
    Moving on. Your question about the hypothesized Christian bomber is inane, and shows that this discussion is nowhere near coming together. To find an equivalence, you would have to ask whether Christians should be interred in a country where they are a minority and they perpetrate the overwhelming fraction of a high number of terrorist acts.
    Were that the case, you can bet your ass that they would be rounded up. Christians have been rounded up for much less by non-Christian governments.
    In the realworld, we observe that Muslim governments of Muslim nations do not round up all Muslims when terror acts are committed by Muslims against Muslims. Such acts are harbingers of an incipient civil war. In the same vein, no Christian nation would round up all Christians when people identified as Christians commit terror against other Christians. Capice?
    Ben, I’m afraid that some very important factors are not coming together in your head, and I will have to excuse myself from this thread until you demonstrate the return of reason.

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  25. billy T Avatar

    Quite easy to tell the difference between our valuable Diaper head citizens and the foreign puke bucket ragheads. Easy as pie. The diaper heads walk gracefully down the road with their clean flowing robes. They exude class and gentleness and nobility from a 100 meters. Now, if I drew a picture of Buddha, no one would die. The bird lands on the branch, flies off, leaving no trail. But, if I drew a picture and posted it on the web depicting the Prophet cheating on his wife or raping one of his slaves, then about a half a dozen ragheads would get killed in a riot, usually more. Oh, the ragheads would start beating themselves with chains and start firing in the air and before you know it they have killed about dozen of themselves every time. Easy as pie to rid the world of a dozen ragheads. Just spread a rumor that we use the Koran as Charmin, and then a couple hundred of them will go on to met 72 male techie geeks in heaven. Don’t think diaper heads cut the lips of women for wearing lipstick. I like that dot on the pretty diaper women. Easy to tell. Just they way they handle themselves says it all. Diaper heads did not assassinate Gandhi. It was the f@#king ragheads.

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  26. Ben Emery Avatar

    Billy T,
    You didn’t describe how a 5-15 year old would be able to tell what you consider a “raghead”. You described what you believe is their actions but not what they look like so a 5-15 could see the difference. Your description is only an example post immoral and violent acts not how to tell the difference.
    I wonder do you or did you support our cozy relationship with Saudi Arabia, United Emirates, (Saddam) Iraq, (Pahlavi) Iran, and (Mubarak) Egypt? How about supporting top five human right violator China through trade and US business?

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  27. Ben Emery Avatar

    George,
    I addressed my comment to Mickey not you. He should know what I am talking about. But here is Mickey’s comment anyway
    “Ben, is it safe to assume that you would accept a law punishing (taxing, etc) obese people if the majority voted for such a law (democracy)?
    Possible basis: obese people add to medicare expense, use more resources, etc.
    You wrote”

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  28. Ben Emery Avatar

    George,
    You said at 05 August 2012 at 10:27 PM
    “Were that the case, you can bet your ass that they would be rounded up. Christians have been rounded up for much less by non-Christian governments.”
    Would you support them being rounded up?
    I think it is you that is missing a major piece of this puzzle.

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  29. TomKenworth Avatar

    As usual, when you can’t argue against what I’ve presented, you just ignore it. Here’s a better way to spend the evening.

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  30. THEMIKEYMCD Avatar

    “Ben, is it safe to assume that you would accept a law punishing (taxing, imprisoning, etc) _______ people if the majority voted for such a law (democracy)?
    Ben, so the only class of people not considered worthy of human rights in your mind are ‘the rich’? Interesting. That was one of the ‘transgressions’ Hitler cited against the Jewish population.
    I focus on individual rights, in my ideal world no central government body would have the right to round up ANY class of people.

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  31. TomKenworth Avatar

    Most of the folks in jail are there because they broke laws voted for by the people, or voted for by their representatives, on a regular basis. This is perfectly normal in a democracy. Try smoking in a restaurant in California, and you will be punished.

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  32. TomKenworth Avatar

    This blog’s right wing regulars go strangely silent when it is revealed the company they keep:
    “Authorities said they were treating the attack as an act of domestic terrorism. American Sikhs said they have often been singled out for harassment, and occasionally violent attack, since the September 11, 2001, attacks because of their colorful turbans and beards.
    U.S. military sources said Page had been discharged from the Army in 1998 for “patterns of misconduct” and had been cited for being drunk on duty.
    Page had served in the military for six years but was never posted overseas. He was a psychological operations specialist and missile repairman who was last stationed at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, the sources said.
    In June 1998 he was disciplined for being drunk on duty and had his rank reduced to specialist from sergeant. He was not eligible to re-enlist.
    Page had been a member of the racist skinhead band End Apathy, based in Fayetteville, North Carolina, in 2010, said Heidi Beirich, director of the intelligence project at the Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Alabama.
    Page also tried to buy goods from the National Alliance, a neo-Nazi group, in 2000, she said. The SPLC describes the National Alliance on its website as “perhaps the most dangerous and best organized neo-Nazi formation in America.”
    In a 2010 online interview with End Apathy’s record label Label56, Page said he had founded the band in 2005 because “I realized … that if we could figure out how to end people’s apathetic ways it would be the start towards moving forward.””

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  33. George Rebane Avatar

    TomK 853am – that’s an empty and specious charge. On what do the “right wing regulars go strangely silent”? And what company do these people keep?

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  34. Gregory Avatar

    “Greg, Your link with the bunny ears served what point?” Ben,04 August 2012 at 10:42 AM
    An age old point… people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. And “turnabout is fair play”.
    The fellow with the blue velvet bunny ears and, um caped Playboy crusader outfit was, if anyone missed it, “Mantersonation”, aka Mike Anderson, from a twitter account Mike set up and apparently forgot about. Taken down in the last day or so but not forgotten or erased.

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  35. Ben Emery Avatar

    Greg,
    Reading through the thread I missed where Michael A threw any stones in your vicinity outside making a comment about a foul being committed. Was that the stone? If yes, the posting of the link seemed very hurtful than playful because it sounds like you know it is a touchy topic with Michael.

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  36. Ben Emery Avatar

    Mickey,
    We agree that no centralized government should have the legal authority to round up people, especially without charge and due process.
    Please show me what human rights are being violated of the wealthy? Please show me where I advocate stripping the wealthy of human rights? Being taxed isn’t a violation of a human right.

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  37. Gregory Avatar

    “TomK 853am – that’s an empty and specious charge.” George 9:00
    George, did you really expect anything different?

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  38. TomKenworth Avatar

    I would not be at all surprised to learn that the shooter has used the term, the same term you all are so fond of, “Raghead” in conversation, songs, and writings. You have failed to explain why using the term raghead is a good thing.
    I wonder how hard it would be to get a shot of L.W. Nuggett in public and place him in a tv set?

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  39. THEMIKEYMCD Avatar

    Ben, can you not see the bigotry/hatred/discrimination you openly promote against the rich via accepting the progressive tax structure (US and abroad)? Does this not equate to the rich having less human rights?
    Thou Shalt Not Steal- [Posted by: Ben Emery | 05 August 2012 at 09:00 PM] you said “Laws do not equal correct or moral.” It is stealing/immoral for a mob (democracy) to target a class of society via laws (i.e. progressive tax system upon the rich). No different than targeting obese people, one religious denomination, people of color, etc.
    Progressives talk of the rich like plantation owners must have talked about their slaves or Hitler’s nazi’s spoke of the Jews. The Rich are humans.

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  40. Ben Emery Avatar

    Greg,
    Addressing your 05 August 2012 at 01:23 PM comment.
    I understand about minority rights but also respect majority rule. Any law you don’t like doesn’t necessarily mean they are a violation of your rights. Get out into the streets and change the minds of the majority of the people and reverse the law. Despite disagreeing with the solutions of the Tea Party I like the fact they organized around the health care law to try and get it reversed.

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  41. TomKenworth Avatar

    The rich are not a particular class of humans, like Jews, Sikh’s, or involuntary African immigrants. You’ve said yourself many times, “anybody can be rich.”

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  42. Ben Emery Avatar

    Mickey,
    You are so far base I cannot even respond.
    Please name human rights of the wealthy that are being violated.

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  43. George Rebane Avatar

    TomK 944am – You did not answer my 900am, and your accusation of my having “failed to explain why using the term raghead is a good thing” is mind-boggling since I have referenced my introductory essay on raghead countless times when I have used the term.
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2010/02/of-ragheads-and-racism.html
    You are now relapsing into attacks on RR readers instead of addressing the issues on which I post. As you are well aware and practiced in, that is the type of commenting better done and condoned on FUE’s blog.
    There is no relation between the expressed ideology of any RR commenter and that of Wade Page, the shooter killed by police in the Sikh temple. Continuing to accuse this blog’s conservative readers as “keeping company” with that half-wit idiot killer in Wisconsin is unacceptable to me, and I will pull your hall pass if you keep that crap up.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390444246904577572853363465564.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTTopStories

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  44. TomKenworth Avatar

    Or better yet, photoshop H.U.W. in a turban, emailed to every neonazi group out there.

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  45. Gregory Avatar

    While I expect the shooter knew the difference between Islamic fascist and Sikh, as do you, expect the Keachies of the world to ignore that. George, you know I have counseled you here to drop “raghead” in the past as doing nothing to further your views because you don’t get to have your own definition of a well known derogatory word; expect Keachie to milk this for all its worth. Let no tragedy go unexploited.
    TomK probably also knows I’ve never used it except to ask you not to, but Doug Keachie (the fellow fisting the TomK sockpuppet) has never let truth get in the way of a happyfun slander.
    The first Sikh I’d ever known was a software engineer who was originally a nice Jewish kid from NYC.

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  46. Ben Emery Avatar

    George,
    I posed a question to Mickey that you chimed in on. Here is the question
    Q- Would you support the rounding up of Christians and putting Christians in jail without any due process, if say someone who considered themselves Christian bombed a government building killing and injuring hundreds of people?
    You said at 05 August 2012 at 10:27 PM
    “Were that the case, you can bet your ass that they would be rounded up. Christians have been rounded up for much less by non-Christian governments.”
    So George- Would you support them being rounded up?
    I don’t know if Mickey is in favor of rounding up Muslims without due process but he has said that no centralized government should round up people in his ideal world. Wavering a bit with the ideal world caveat.

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  47. Gregory Avatar

    Ben, 10:02
    I’m afraid you still are confused… in the USA, we don’t have “majority rule”. We have a complex, ponderous process which is in place in order to stymie majority rule.

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  48. TomKenworth Avatar

    Glad to see my neighbor 2 minutes east has some shreds of common sense left. Don’t read Rebane often enough to have caught Greg Goodknight’s disclaimers for “Raghead.”

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  49. Ben Emery Avatar

    George,
    A pretty consistent tool in your quiver is making grand associations with being in the realm of collectivism ideology. Why doesn’t the same rule apply to you with your opinions regarding the very easily confused “raghead” remarks. When hate speech is laced with violence as a solution we get mentally unstable people taking an active approach to solve the perceived problems presented by those who are in public view or sound. You being on RR, KVMR, and The Union make you a person who has a responsibility to your ideas and commentary that you put out for public consumption.

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  50. Ben Emery Avatar

    Greg,
    Here we go again you trying to show intellectual superiority, do you even realize you are doing it?
    Here is a link on how laws are made and how bills are passed or not passed. To clarify it takes a simple majority for bills to pass and become law.
    http://www.coons.senate.gov/learn/bills/

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