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July 2012
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George Rebane

Well folks, Scranton’s bankruptcy may have been the cognitive tipping point for the nation, but because of the lamestream cover-up we can’t be certain.  Following yesterday’s announcement by San Bernardino, the Pennsylvania city is now the 12th municipality filing Chapter 9, with 27 more jurisdictions standing in line to be next.  And the cause of these financial calamities is the same – paying for public service pensions has broken the back of every one of them.

JustSayNORR has reported on and predicted this trail of tears for the last five years when Mike McDaniel and I co-authored an SESF position paper alerting Nevada County to the problem and putting it into a national context.  The Board of Supervisors gave us a polite listen and then dismissed the matter with a papered over version that everything was going well behind the curtain.  Now we know that our unfunded pension liabilities are over $119M, and that is computed with a la-la land discount rate.  During the entire time the local leftie chorus has denied that public service pensions would cause any fiscal failures, and that its reporting was all a rightwing scare tactic in their overall policy promoting the ideas of fiscal responsibility and smaller government.  Where are those useful idiots now?

Before returning to how to handle these national disasters, let’s take a look at America’s tax situation.  Obama, in his eternal avoidance of his track record on the economy, is now shifting focus to tax fairness.  In his opening round, he has thrown out a placebo by urging Congress to exempt households earning less than $250K from the planned ‘Taxmageddon’ scheduled to hit next January.  And he’s going to exempt them for a full year – my, my! – before he shoves it to them in 2014.  BTW, don’t think he’s exempting them from all the other tax increases that will be popping out like corks out of champagne bottles next New Year’s Day.  What a guy!

Obama’s big message of the week has been ‘tax fairness’, and that the ‘rich’ are still not paying their fair share.  So what are the so-called rich paying now, and what should they pay?  Look at the table below.

TaxFairness


This is a tax participation schedule that is more ‘progressive’ than most of Europe.  Progressives have no answer for what should be the maximum tax rate for Americans; their solution is to keep raising taxes for as long as necessary to pay for all the government that malignant socialism requires.  The American people on the other hand have repeatedly told us that the max tax rate should be 30% or lower.  Obama’s nostrums for driving off the coming tax cliff are significantly higher.  And that sumbich is telling people that he’s going to get us out of Depression2 and the economy moving again by hitting the country with its biggest tax increase in history.

In the meantime there are mass movements of people and businesses scurrying from state to state seeking environments where government intrusion and the cost of tribute is less.  Over the last decade California’s insane economics and eco-nazism have driven over four million of its productive citizens to friendlier financial climes.  All this energy and creativity wasted on attempting to escape government instead of productively creating the wealth the country needs.

So how should we respond to the pension plague that is promising to swallow everything that we have worked for?  My outlandish proposal has centered on the notion of ‘Just say NO!’.  Simply refuse to contribute one more penny that is needed for current government services to the futile effort of trying to make up the impossible unfunded liabilities sums.  We will first pay for the sheriff and fill the potholes, and then distribute pro rata to the pension funds what is left over.

I believe it will take just one jurisdiction, say, Nevada County to refuse to sacrifice tax revenues required for current needs.  If it is done with openness and honesty, the infection of rational courage would catch on and spread across the country like a wildfire.

The basis for ‘Just say NO!’ is simple.  The existing pension obligations are a legacy of corruption from the collusion of previous elected boards, councils, panels, …who negotiated with public service unions in an atmosphere of calculated concessions from the public welfare.  The people were misrepresented by their electeds when such blatantly insane contracts for public service employees were negotiated.  Prudent accountancy would have shown that there was no way that future tax revenues augmenting reasonable pension fund management would ever have provided the portfolio amounts required to pay off the lavish retirement benefits which the unions extracted and the politicians conceded.  These contracts were simply not negotiated in good faith for the benefit of the taxpayers who were bamboozled at every step along the way.

The negotiating politicians knew that they would be long gone when the piper had to be paid.  And in the meantime, ponying up to the unions got them the necessary campaign support and easy working conditions while they were in office.  Well, now the time has run out, and the remaining alternatives are bleak.  So bleak that they don’t include the ability for any semblance of funding the unfunded.  In Nevada County we don’t even know how much we are liable for and when.  All we know is that the sum ranges way upwards of $119M, because that figure was computed with laughable discount rates.  Applying the Pelosi Principle here – we’ll know we’ve gone off the fiscal cliff after we are in freefall.

So given this history of collusion, perfidy, and corruption, our sitting politicians (assuming they are clean) have no better plan forward that declaring that they will ‘Just say NO!’.  And dear reader, I invite you to consider what any reasonable counter to such a principled stand will be.  Will the governor send in the National Guard to confiscate the county’s snowplows, or board up the Rood Center and put it up for sale, or … .  Not if the county’s citizens strap on their cojones and gather en masse to defend what is ours, and that which will not be taken from us through legal machinations seeking to enforce and perpetuate a legacy of corruption.

And seeing that stand-off on the six o’clock news, what will happen when the next county in similar dire straits responds the same way?  And then the next, and the next, …?

[17jul12 update]  The Volker panel called the State Budget Crisis Task Force has just published its report.  Its main conclusion is that “the gap between entitlement costs and state revenues available to pay for them have become unsustainable”.  And that which cannot be sustained will not be sustained.  More here.

Posted in , , , ,

117 responses to “The Great Pension Heist is Discovered (updated 17jul12)”

  1. THEMIKEYMCD Avatar

    George = Preacher
    Me = Choir
    Imagine the outcry from the lefties if Goldman Sachs, Exxon, or Walmart pulled a scam as heinous as the public sector pension Ponzi Scheme. #doublestandard #hypocrisy
    Getting politicians to ‘do nothing’ or ‘just say no’ is an impossibility.
    Don’t get me started on ‘tax fairness’

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  2. TomKenworth Avatar

    First off, this is Greg’s nemesis, using an old sock, as I am tired of the amount of time waste relogging into WordPress each time, and am going to wean real name from the Internet over the next couple of years, as govmint and BigCorps are just getting too damn nosy and powerful. This is the one and only time I will identify as such. This is by no means a perfect solution, but at least it will make it harder for them to zero in on me, should they happen to cross the line, or their successors (China?).
    If the economy hadn’t been set up to tank by the banks and corps sending jobs overseas, and the American workers too dumb to realize that they were Walmarting themselves to suicide, the pensions would have been just fine.

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  3. TomKenworth Avatar

    I thought that Crabb’s Barfly cartoon expressed the social media situation perfectly, which is why I used it, so small no copyright issues. Go to http://www.RLCrabb to see it full sized and get my point.

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  4. George Rebane Avatar

    TomKenworth 958pm – you have us confused. Are you then DougK or BenE or?

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  5. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    MichaelA I think. He said he was Greg’s nemesis.
    The pension agreements need to be redone. When I was a Supervisor, I always voted in secret session (I urged it to be in open session but always lost) against the stuff that is now biting America on the ass. I saw the unsustainable path in 1985 and yet I was unable to convince others. I am sorry to say I failed in that regard.
    What the problem has been up to now is what was done by every jurisdiction in America for many years. When one city or county or special district got a WOW contract for the employees that contract was then used in “studies” of surrounding counties to show that all the others are doing it so we should too (think cancer). I saw this in employee wage studies as well. Hell Placer County is paying X so should we! And those things passed!
    We have institutionalized bad math and bad policy for the country. In California we doubled down at the state level and shoved thousands more mandates on everything from raw milk to dropped combs in the hairdresser shop. The boxes must be blown up and a new start begun.
    One thing I have seen over the years regarding taxes in our state is the willingness of local cities and counties to pass increases in sales taxes and school bonds In June 2012, in Ballotpedia (http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/June_5,_2012) _ballot_measures_in_California you can see how many increased their taxes. All this does though is allow more money to be withheld by the state for the original purposes and creates the back fill with the local tax increase. I think many Californians must be just plain ass stupid to do this, but hey, it is California.

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  6. TomKenworth Avatar

    DougK
    Todd, People are not always willing to pass stuff. For example, the good folks in Placer failed to pass: A Placer Hills Fire Protection District Parcel Tax, Measure E ballot measure was on the June 5, 2012 ballot for voters in the Placer Hills Fire Protection District in Placer County.
    According to the official description of Measure E, “If passed, the tax would be levied on improved parcels with an assessed valuation of $10,000 or more. The exact amount of this special tax would be variable based on the type and number of residences/commercial buildings on a parcel, as set forth in the District’s Resolution 2012-01A. The tax also allows for annual price adjustments based on the Consumer Price Index, or 3%, whichever is less.”
    It was estimated that the amount of the tax in its first year would have been $79/parcel.
    A 2/3rds supermajority vote was required for passage.
    Election results
    Placer Hills Fire Protection District Parcel Tax
    Result Votes Percentage
    Defeated No 1,071 47.1%
    Yes 1,203 52.09%
    They were SO SMART not to pass that tax. I wonder how instrumental the great and powerful Tea Party was in keeping this from getting passed? I wonder if any of the homes that may be burnt to the ground belong to “No” voters? BTW, if any of you have a swimming pool, and no high powered pump and hoses, and a fire is approaching, give me a call. I have all the gear and it seems a shame just to hoard it for myself, in the event of an emergency, assuming your place is at least a couple of miles from mine.

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  7. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    My Ballotpedia link doesn’t work to get to the listing but if you begin at the California link on their map follow the local ballot measures and you will come upon a county list with city sub lists of local measures from June 5, 2012. You can go to any election as well from the past few elections. What you will see is many tax measures winning. Mostly in the liberal counties ( if that a too their credit I will let you decide). Many bonds and many local increases to their sales tax.

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  8. Ben Emery Avatar

    I can’t resist, here is how the income tax system should break down. Excerpt from your favorite economics professor and former labor secretary. I know he doesn’t understand economics, right?
    The Obama Budget: And Why the Coming Debate Over Spending Cuts Has Nothing to Do With Reviving the Economy
    Sunday, February 13, 201
    “Don’t cut the government services they rely on – college loans, home heating oil, community services, and the rest. State and local budget cuts are already causing enough pain.
    The most direct way to get more money into their pockets is to expand the Earned Income Tax Credit (a wage subsidy) all the way up through people earning $50,000, and reduce their income taxes to zero. Taxes on incomes between $50,000 and $90,000 should be cut to 10 percent; between $90,000 and $150,000 to 20 percent; between $150,000 and $250,000 to 30 percent.
    And exempt the first $20,000 of income from payroll taxes.
    Make up the revenues by increasing taxes on incomes between $250,000 to $500,000 to 40 percent; between $500,000 and $5 million, to 50 percent; between $5 million and $15 million, to 60 percent; and anything over $15 million, to 70 percent.
    And raise the ceiling on the portion of income subject to payroll taxes to $500,000.
    It’s called progressive taxation.
    The lion’s share of America’s income and wealth is at the top. Taxing the very rich won’t hurt the economy. They spend a much smaller portion of their incomes than everyone else.”
    http://robertreich.org/post/3277360050

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  9. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 1111pm – Reich did the predictable in his piece. He assumed the perennial static model of progressives – i.e. the rich sit back and quietly accept the tax increases calculated by the liberal accountants (the California idiots have been using this approach for years) – and even then Reich did not show how the new tax rates on the rich would make up for total government revenues. However, the words sounded very progressive and politically correct to appropriately impress his kind of audiences.

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  10. THEMIKEYMCD Avatar

    Ben Emiery you are a hateful man if you cannot see the discrimination/anger/jealousy/immorality of a progressive tax system.
    To accept a notion that taxing ‘the rich’ (one class of people) won’t hurt the economy while taxing another class a people will is idiotic. We are all human, let’s accept that.
    Are progressives blind to the fact that when ‘the rich’ retain their earnings they are able to hire more? Invest more? spend more? save more which banks then lend? or is the hate shielding such truths?
    Why do progressive hate to the point of using government FORCE on fellow humans?

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  11. Michael Anderson Avatar

    Mikey, there’s a lot less hate than you think. Mostly it’s fear.
    George, I liked your post. While I believe that revenue is a missing side of the equation when pension reform becomes the only focus, I agree with you that there is no way that a public employee should be able to retire at age ~50 and receive a salary that is close to what she took home at the top of her game.
    I don’t happen to believe there will be a cascade of new muni bankruptcies here, but George’s is still an appropriately cautionary tale. Even if only 3% of the local gov’t municipalities in the US were to fail, it would be a monumental economic hurdle to overcome.
    Here’s an idea, let’s deal with the realities of what is war and how we sacrifice for our nation: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/10/opinion/lets-draft-our-kids.html?_r=1&hp

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  12. Michael Anderson Avatar

    Whoops, I left out why the above comment was relevant to George’s post.

    In favor of a new draft, the list is growing.

    “The savings actually might be a way of bringing around the unions representing federal, state and municipal workers, because they understand that there is a huge budget crunch that is going to hit the federal government in a few years. Setting up a new non-career tier of cheap, young labor might be a way of preserving existing jobs for older, more skilled, less mobile union workers.”

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  13. TomKenworth Avatar

    The last ten years prove that the rich do NOT hire more (except maybe overseas), invest more, or spend more, with lower taxes. Trickle down? Ha, Only if you are thinking urinal stalls.

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  14. Ben Emery Avatar

    Mickey,
    We should pay for what we use, correct. Those who make more money generally use more of the infrastructure and should pay for it. Why is that hateful? Roads, educated work force, police/ fire, water, judicial system, military ect… are all part of the common infrastructure. I live in the United States of America and pay/ give back my fair share to keep it the best nation on the planet. It seems you only think in terms of what Mickey wants and ignore your responsibility to continue what those who came before us invested so much in so we could have a high standard of living in a developed nation.

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  15. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 705am – Could you please point us to the data proving that the ‘rich’ have not hired more in the last decade? Most certainly the poor have not hired more. Recall also that we are in an economic downturn and in the pre-Singularity years during which non-competitive labor is rapidly being replaced by technology. And to the degree that government friction (laws, regulations, added taxes, fees, …) grows, employers will go to labor markets with less friction.
    Bottom line, it’s American industry that is seeking to avoid costs, the ‘rich’ are hiring, consuming luxury goods, eating out, entertaining themselves, sending their kids to schools, etc as much as ever, and thereby providing jobs that cannot be exported.

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  16. Russ Steele Avatar

    What? Ben writes: “Those who make more money generally use more of the infrastructure and should pay for it.” I am having a hard time getting my head around that statement. The rich use more of the highway than long haul truckers? The rich use more water washing their teeth than I do. The rich carp more than I do? The rich use more bandwidth than game playing teens? The rich’s houses burn more often than poor peoples houses. The rich call the police more than old people living in a gang banger neighborhood? Really?
    Ben, please help me out here. What infrastructure are the rich using more than the other folks?

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  17. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    I was reported today that San Berdo’s pension demands 35% of the entire budget of the city.
    Also, that of the 4500 cities and towns etc in America, 20% could be in the same boat. I think it is more.

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  18. THEMIKEYMCD Avatar

    Russ, there are zero facts to support BenEmeries claim. FACTS: lower and middle class use more public education than ‘the rich’ (recall that education is approx 50% of state budgets alone), they obviously use more State funded healthcare, State Funded housing programs, etc. The problem is that they don’t pay an equitable (any?) taxes to support such programs (see Rebane’s table above).
    Progressives talk about ‘equality’ when passing out the goods… they go impotent on ‘equality’ when the bill comes.
    To believe that ‘the rich’ don’t do anything with their wealth (hire, invest, save, spend) is irrational/idiotic… what else could ‘the rich’ do with their money? [If this was a sarcastic thought by TomK I appologize].
    Trust me (and any married man I know) that if I were ‘rich’ my wife would help the economy!

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  19. THEMIKEYMCD Avatar

    Should SS be mandatory or voluntary?
    Should employERS be required to ‘enforce’ SS deductions from paychecks?
    Should taxes be assessed in an equitable manner (flat versus progressive)?
    Should employERS be required to act as the tax collector for the IRS and State taxing authority?
    Should a ‘central bank’ be responsible for the ‘setting of interest rates’ or should the market set rates?
    Should a government be permitted to print unlimited amounts of money AND disallow its citizens to use their own forms of money (silver/gold)?
    Should the government be in the ‘business’ of philanthropy?
    If you limit the power of government don’t you also limit the power of special interests/corporations vying to buy special treatment from said government?
    Should an employER lose his individual rights when he hires an employee?
    What laws are you willing to send a father of 4 to prison for ignoring?
    Should pseudo agencies like CARB (state), Department of Energy (fed/state), Department of Education (state/fed) be given the right to enforcement powers (detain/arrest/carry guns)?

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  20. TomKenworth Avatar

    The rich use the REST of US as part of their infrastructure in which to get rich. The REST of US don’t, and so everything in that infrastructure that makes us “useful fools” is to the benefit of the rich alone, as demonstrated by the fact that they are rich. They can pay for it. Here’s your lefty twisted logic moment of the day, from your perspective, Russ.

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  21. David King Avatar

    “The rich use the REST of US as part of their infrastructure in which to get rich.”
    They should leave us alone so we can be poor and happy. Rich bastards!
    I just want to be a fire truck! Ding ding ding.

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  22. Ben Emery Avatar

    Mickey,
    You seem to be a bit unhinged lately. I will try and answer your questions with brevity.
    Should SS be mandatory or voluntary?
    Mandatory- we all benefit as a society because the program is in place. It is only theft if the money was illegal kept from you when your time to collect comes.
    Should employERS be required to ‘enforce’ SS deductions from paychecks?
    Yes, if we want a sustainable system then all must pay into it.
    Should taxes be assessed in an equitable manner (flat versus progressive)?
    If we are talking income taxes No, taxes should be assessed by ability to pay and level of usage of infrastructure. (progressive).
    Should employERS be required to act as the tax collector for the IRS and State taxing authority?
    Once again, if we want taxes to be collected from all Americans the most efficient way of doing it at the source of income. Very few if any people who earn a paycheck have offshore tax havens and bank accounts in Switzerland. But as we see from those who make their money gambling in the financial sector and who are taxed at a much lower rate (15%)for their income do take their income and hide it, therefore not paying their fair share of the cost to maintain the American infrastructure.
    Should a ‘central bank’ be responsible for the ‘setting of interest rates’ or should the market set rates?
    I don’t believe in our form of a central bank a.k.a. The Federal Reserve. Very broad question to a very detailed issue. I believe in simple interest, interest on principal only.
    Should a government be permitted to print unlimited amounts of money AND disallow its citizens to use their own forms of money (silver/gold)?
    Money supply should be controlled through the US Treasury and the measure of money supply should be equal to goods and services of our nation.
    Should the government be in the ‘business’ of philanthropy?
    Depends on what you are talking about. If you mean giving nations billions of dollars with the intent for that money to be spent by buying US made military weaponry, then no I don’t. If you mean helping third world countries digging wells so they can have clean drinking water at the same time build good relations with the people of that nation, yes I can see it being a good thing. For the record the US has one of the worst % of international aid per income of the nation. http://www.poverty.com/internationalaid.html
    If you limit the power of government don’t you also limit the power of special interests/corporations vying to buy special treatment from said government?
    Not necessarily. Governments despite their level of involvement in day to day lives become corrupt. Once again I will give you examples of third world countries where there is little government services but those who sit at the top of government are the wealthiest of the citizens from collecting bribes. What you get is a very small elite group securing their personal wealth.
    The last three are nonsense and I don’t know what you are talking about.
    Should an employER lose his individual rights when he hires an employee?
    What laws are you willing to send a father of 4 to prison for ignoring?
    Should pseudo agencies like CARB (state), Department of Energy (fed/state), Department of Education (state/fed) be given the right to enforcement powers (detain/arrest/carry guns)?

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  23. Michael Anderson Avatar

    Should SS be mandatory or voluntary?
    Mandatory.
    Should employERS be required to ‘enforce’ SS deductions from paychecks?
    Yes, unless you can come up w/ a better way to fund SS (I’m not a big fan of employers/business being unpaid tax collectors).
    Should taxes be assessed in an equitable manner (flat versus progressive)?
    No.
    Should employERS be required to act as the tax collector for the IRS and State taxing authority?
    Yes, unless a better way can be found.
    Should a ‘central bank’ be responsible for the ‘setting of interest rates’ or should the market set rates?
    Central bank.
    Should a government be permitted to print unlimited amounts of money AND disallow its citizens to use their own forms of money (silver/gold)?
    Yes to printing money. No to disallowing citizens from using silver/gold.
    Should the government be in the ‘business’ of philanthropy?
    Yes.
    If you limit the power of government don’t you also limit the power of special interests/corporations vying to buy special treatment from said government?
    Not necessarily.
    Should an employER lose his individual rights when he hires an employee?
    Question is rhetorical and biased, not answerable.
    What laws are you willing to send a father of 4 to prison for ignoring?
    Question is rhetorical and biased, not answerable.
    Should pseudo agencies like CARB (state), Department of Energy (fed/state), Department of Education (state/fed) be given the right to enforcement
    powers (detain/arrest/carry guns)?
    Question is rhetorical and biased, not answerable.

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  24. THEMIKEYMCD Avatar

    Scary Ben, very scary.

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  25. Ben Emery Avatar

    Mickey,
    I will add one more on the SS questions. All income should be taxed for FICA (long term capital gains exempt 7years or longer) and remove the $106,800 cap in place now. If we did so the overall % could drop benefiting a vast majority of Americans stimulating the economy while increasing revenue and benefits of the program.

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  26. THEMIKEYMCD Avatar

    Scary Michael Anderson, very scary. Thank you (and Ben) for being honest.

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  27. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    One thing abut BenE I admire. He never ventures outside the tax and spend box. What a consistent fellow.

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  28. Michael Anderson Avatar

    Mikey dramatically opined: “Scary Michael Anderson, very scary.”
    Mikey, you have a very, very steep hill ahead of you. I’ll bet a whopping majority of mainstream Republicans and Democrats would answer these questions just like I did. That means you are in the extreme minority, and have little or no chance of your ideals being implemented in the USA in the 21st century. Now what?

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  29. George Rebane Avatar

    General observations – BenE’s 705am claim appeared to me so false on its face that it was difficult to stop sputtering sufficiently to reply. RussS’ 805am and Mikey’s 840am cover it sufficiently. TomKenworth’s 856am response is the classical communist narrative – the rich are only rich because they have downtrodden the rest of us; we are the infrastructure that the rich consume in order for them to become rich.
    Question for MichaelA – what is the common ground between the two ideologies so different as that described above with that of the market capitalism that conservaterians like me believe is the organizing (economic and social) basis for the greatest human advancement ever?

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  30. Ben Emery Avatar

    Michael,
    That is point I make all the time at public forums, the positions I hold are almost always with the majority of Americans. Yet on RR I am considered scary.
    Todd,
    Being a pure partisan that twists himself into pretzels to defend hypocrisy of the party must be tiring. The republicans going back to the reagan era have been tax cut and spend, which has landed us in the problem we find ourselves today. You can call me fiscally responsible, its ok. I would have voted against both the Bush invasions/ occupations, Medicare Part D, Patriot Act, FISA Act, much of the Department of Homeland Security, Bank Bailouts, and tax cuts for the wealthy. If we eliminate these costs we do not have a debt problem.
    http://reaganbushdebt.org/

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  31. Ben Emery Avatar

    George,
    Your questions seemed a bit off topic from the cited comment, so I didn’t answer. I would argue the poor do hire more than the rich on a couple of positions.
    1) It is small business’s that hire a majority of employee’s in this country. Very few of them are rich. (most people who start a small business go into debt to start it, talking in just numbers being in the red is being poor)
    2) The only reason to hire is because their is a demand for a service or product. Since the wealthy already have more than enough money to spend and only a fraction of their income goes back into the functional/ productive economy it is up to the rest of us to stimulate the economy. Middle Class, Lower Middle Class, and the poor generally spend 100% of their income back into the functional/ productive economy.
    If I owned a dollar store I would want 100 people with a $1 to spend rather than 5 people with $20 but will only spend $5 each. Right now the private sector (financial sector) is sitting on roughly $3 trillion and not circulating it through the economy.

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  32. TomKenworth Avatar

    Nope, the rich are not rich because they have downtrodden the rest of us, they are rich because the rest of us build the bridges with our taxes so that we can get to and from our jobs for the rich, and so the rich can then also move their goods to market. Without the rest of us, the rich would not last very long at all. Not enough of them to both make the money, even overseas, and also maintain the USA as a comfy place to live. For the rich to now decide that we are all expendable, replacable with imported laborers, is simply not the American way, and I guess they will have to learn it the hard way, possibly losing the USA in the process, and maybe even the planet, once the oceans tip. Remember the Cuyahoga River? Fixing the oceans will be many, many, magnitudes a greater problem.

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  33. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    BenE, we read your stuff all over the place. You are a prolific writer in length and consistent in philosophy. You are truly politically scary. You and MichaelA are the philosophy in power at this time across America and it is wrecking the place. You live in the past a lot as well. Try to look at the future of America and stop whining about Bush. Jeese!

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  34. THEMIKEYMCD Avatar

    “Now what?” Posted by: Michael Anderson | 13 July 2012 at 12:40 PM
    Try to make as little money as possible so I am not seen as ‘enemy #1.’
    Fight my natural propensity to create, produce, solve, invent, serve, improve the world.
    Bring my children up to believe that all humans are worthy of love (regardless of social standing/wealth, skin color, etc).
    Protect myself and my family from those who will use FORCE upon us for their envy based agenda.
    Vote for liberty; even if it is a ‘lost vote’ (Ron Paul).
    Dwell on the fact that just because a system exists or because a mob votes for a morally/financially bankrupt system doesn’t make it right.
    Live a life where I do no harm, despite the harm done to me by others.

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  35. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 112pm – Hard to follow you here. You socialists are now enlisting the small business owner into the ranks of the poor? I was going to laugh that one out of the park, because of all the small business owners I have known, including myself, who have risked so much, yet never thinking ourselves poor but only privileged in the process – and then I contemplate MichaelA who is a small business owner, and who seems to think more like you than like me.

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  36. Ben Emery Avatar

    Russ,
    I have to take it at your word that you don’t understand how the wealthy use the infrastructure more than the average person. The other thing I have to assume is you don’t understand when almost all people talk about the wealthy they are talking about the mega wealthy not people who are making $500k a year. We are talking about people who bring home tens of millions annually. The wealthiest 400 people/ families in a America have more wealth than the bottom 50%. The top 1% has more than the bottom 90%.
    Let me explain this simple concept. Lets take WalMart. Walmart hires 1.2 million Americans. My guess at least 1 million of those went to public schools to learn how to read, write, arithmetic- Walmart uses the education infrastructure big time. The roads, stop lights/ signs, and police are used by every single person who either brings, sells, or purchases goods from Walmart- Walmart uses the road infrastructure big time. There a number more but you get the picture by now I hope. OK I will give one more example. The US Judicial System is another biggie for large corporations using the common infrastructure, which leads me to The Walton heirs (born into money)have more wealth than the bottom 30% of American’s. They make money off of the infrastructure that is in place but don’t want to contribute to continue that infrastructure. In fact the fund to the tune of millions to reduce their taxes and am sure they have many offshore tax accounts.

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  37. Ben Emery Avatar

    George,
    I consider myself solidly in the middle class and have lived a comfortable lifestyle but a vast majority of my adult life has been in or just above the poverty line for income. I have been self employed and a business owner as well. My goal has always been earn a living not take a killing.

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  38. Ben Emery Avatar

    Not exactly Rockefellers.
    http://smallbusiness.chron.com/average-income-small-business-owners-5189.html
    Average Income by Experience
    According to compensation survey administrator PayScale in 2010, the average income of small business owners varies widely depending upon their level of experience. For example, small business owners with less than one year of experience in running an organization earn an annual salary ranging from $34,392 to $75,076. Those with more than 10 years experience, on the other hand, earn upwards of $105,757 per year.

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  39. George Rebane Avatar

    BenE 358pm – What about the table in this post is confusing? Are there some limits to taxing a person, or how much income a person should be allowed to earn that you care to share from your class-imbued ideology? What level of income confiscation do you consider sufficient?

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  40. THEMIKEYMCD Avatar

    The issue of confiscating private property (wealth) is no different than any other moral issue.
    As Rebane’s 4:05pm comment suggests… to discriminate on some subjective basis is not right/moral.
    Like forcing only the devoutly jewish into the railcar and letting the ‘less’ jewish off the hook.
    Or like allowing segregation of very dark complected African Americans while not allowing segregation of the lighter toned African Americans.
    Do you at least see that the wealthy (Obama’s scale is above $250k) feel hated/targeted/subhuman?

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  41. TomKenworth Avatar

    Every corporation out there “targets” various demographics (classes if you will) from whom to harvest cash. What’s the matter, can’t take it when the tables are turned? Target sources of cash is only allowed for the rich? How naive! Welcome to dog eat dog Darwinian capitalism and government. If it is not immoral to drive a recent widow from her home via continuing foreclosure actions while pretending to renegotiate loans (recently outlawed in California, thank-you Jerry Brown & Company), then surely it is not immoral to demand progressive taxation, and taxes on all stock trades. That Bull on Wall Street is not a Sacred Cow, and neither are the people it stands for.

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  42. TomKenworth Avatar

    The rich discovered vicious and immoral ages ago, now the remains of the middle class and poor are beginning to adapt the same “code of dishonour.”

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  43. George Rebane Avatar

    TomKenworth 725pm – How will the world work when the “remains of the middle class” win?

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  44. TomKenworth Avatar

    GR 8:59 Important stuff, like food shelter and medicine and education, especially in regards birth control, and individualized mass transit, will be the focus. Protecting American multinat interests overseas will be a low priority. And BTW, ultimately that is a win-win for even the top.

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  45. George Rebane Avatar

    TomKenworth 935pm – who will be doing all this work, why, and for what reward? And why aren’t they doing it already?

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  46. TomKenworth Avatar

    BTW, those at the top are not supermen, minutely calculating the moves needed by the millions under them. They are ordinary but talented people, and typically have close contact with subordinates, probably not more than a typical classroom teacher has students, and those subordinates in turn have their subordinates, and so on. Dimon of Chase didn’t personally go out and lose 5.8 billion. Subordinates of a subordinate went out there and did it for him, most likely they depended on yet another lower level or two for the data for the decisions that they made.
    So why the hell should the top most guy, and those under him get many many millions? Well you see it is sort of like the Unions, expecting to get paid about the same as everyone else doing the same job. Except here money causes people to walk, and at some point the whole scheme has gone totally out of control, when the ratio between the CEO’s salary and those beneath him begin to creep above 1000 to one. basically, the egos of those at the top are now psychotic in their needs to be numero uno, Ichiban, top dog of the money piles, Scrooge McDuck, etc, and yet they’ve convinced a portion of the rest of the world that they are normal and sane. 5 to 7 houses makes you wealthy, according to McCain. One good house, a nearby vacation home, and money for yearly trips anywhere in the world would probably be considered by both sane people in Nevada County as being wealthy, BUT ONLY, if you have lots of good friends and a loving family.

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  47. Michael Anderson Avatar

    [Deleted.]
    The muni BKs are due to a combo of decreased revenue and increased cost (one aspect being public employee pensions). Blaming the BKs on just one of those things is simplistic.

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  48. George Rebane Avatar

    MichaelA 947am – let me champion the “simplistic” side of this debate, since Mike McDaniel and I took it back in 2007. The foretold bankruptcies of counties, municipalities, and other pension paying jurisdictions was already inevitable then, and had nothing to do with the recent losses of revenues. The public service pensions were and are unsustainable, the only factor that the (also predictable) recession added to the mix was that the time table to bankruptcies was shortened.
    In this vein let me add that, given the hubris shown by the electeds (including in Nevada County) back in 2007, if the recession had not occurred or the revenue losses had not been as big, then the jurisdictions would have remained in la-la land and continued to pile on unfunded liabilities as many of them actually did and some do to this day. I’m afraid in this case Occam’s mighty razor has cut right through to the simplest of all explanations for the growing avalanche of bankruptcies. The rest of it is diversionary progressive bullshit.

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  49. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    It is usually the simplest answer and it truly is overspending. The reason politicians are now finally being exposed for all the largesse is they are toast at the local level regardless. Bad management (no cops, potholes galore)and/or bad contracts. Take your pick. I must say though that Nevada County has tried to maintain a “rainy day fund” since the early 80’s when the County saved its ‘revenue sharing” money started in the Nixon years.
    California may be the state that actually fails to change though. With the vote on the bullet train to nowhere, the destruction by the state of our higher education system and the disregard for the infrastructure, smothering rules and regulations and the hegemony of the liberals in Sacramento, our Golden State is a lead ball.

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  50. TomKenworth Avatar

    One place we’ve certainly over spent on is the military and absolutely the War on Drugs. Money down megaratholes.

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