109 responses to “A Meditation for the Fourth”

1. 

   billy T

   08 July 2012

   Mr. Keachie, every man that has risen to the Office of President has faced enormous challenges in his time. The circumstances are different for each one. The challenges take some down while other thrive and see things as opportunities. I remember the gas lines (odd and even days), Ford’s WIN buttons (whip inflation now), Chrysler declaring bankruptcy in 1973 or 74, and the price freeze under Nixon. I was young and pissed at Tricky Dick so I voted for Carter. I imagine alot of young people were pissed at Bush and voted for Obama. For me the picture of the crashed helicopter in the desert during the failed Iran Hostage rescue mission said it all for Carter’s Presidency. He promised he would never lie to us and he probably kept that promise. But he lacked that natural leadership ability required of the Oval Office. When Reagen was elected and ordered the air wing strike on Libya at two in the morning at 600 miles and hour, the world was shocked. I remember reading a French newspaper the next day stating the diplomatic policies of Carter just got put in the “antique closet.” And the civilized French called Reagen a cowboy as if that was a bad thing, lol. Reagen invoked optimism and the ‘yes we can’ spirit from sea to shining sea. Obama talked his way into the Oval Office. He has tried to talk to our Middle Eastern friends into liking us. Wasn’t his first speech in Turkey before Cairo? How has his talking worked out? He talks about the economy and all his talk is just chatter. Results talk, bull shit walks. World leaders call him an amateur. A beer summit can solve minor tiffs between a couple of individuals, but does not fix the economy. The more he blames, the less Presidential he appears. The more he blames, the more pessimistic Americans become. Americans as a nation are right of center and optimistic. Obama should stop talking so much and show us his leadership abilities.

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2. 

   Russ Steele

   08 July 2012

   billyt@03:55,
   Right on, you nailed it.

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3. 

   Russ Steele

   08 July 2012

   Douglas @ 01:25am
   You asked for the price of shale oil derived gas at the pump. I could not find a current estimate, maybe you have one to share. In the 1980s the company I worked for spent a billion dollars trying to figure out how to recover the shale oil in situ, the process they worked out required a lot of energy and water. To be cost effective the price of oil had to be above $60.00 a barrel. When they killed the project, oil was under $30.00 a barrel.
   If we take natural gas directional drilling and fracking as an example this technology has driven down the cost of gas extraction. Directional drilling and fracking in the shale oil formation are estimated to do the same. If it was not cost effective companies would not be investing millions in exploration and testing. They would exit the market just like the company I used to work for stopped the project when the pay off was too elusive to be viable. But, the technology has changed. Directional drilling and fracking are the game changers in shale oil. While fracking takes a lot of water, most of it can be recovered and reused, as companies have developed portable water processing plants.

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4. 

   A Facebook User

   08 July 2012

   Billy T,
   I am not voting for Obama for numerous reasons and can’t begin to tell you how disappointed I am with the leadership of the democratic party and the absolute spinelessness of the members of the democratic party. The republican party leadership and congressional members are flat out disgusting in their policies. A couple things you left out is the ability to work with congress. The republican party has obstructed since day one of the Obama administration in fact they had a meeting on inauguration day 2009 planning on how they will play with the lives of the people to make sure Obama is one term president.
   http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/26/democrats-gop-plot-obstruct-obama
   The other since the Carter administration both party’s have become 100% owned by big business and can no longer govern in the interest of the people. Obama and Romney are just the frontmen puppets for a group of multinational corporate businesswomen and men guaranteeing private sector profits. We are in the middle of the worst form of government, when government and big business are one and the same.
   We need to remember government is us and until the people take the controls of campaign funding we will continue to go down this corporatist rat hole. From Carter administration to Clinton first administration campaign spending increased by 10% from Clinton first administration to Obama administration campaign spending increased 400%. From 2008 to 2012 is projected to increase another 100%.
   It can no longer be denied we have the best government money can buy (best for those with the money).
   B. Emery

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5. 

   Douglas Keachie

   08 July 2012

   Reagan would be able to do no more than Bush or Carter, given that the jobs have been exported for the benefit of the multinat .01%’ers. He was great window dressing for a world in transition to the personal computer age, but had no magic powers. I didn’t see Obama consulting before the Osama Death Strike.
   For reasons of inactivity on Fukishima first and other reasons secondarily, I am not contributing to the Obama campaign, except maybe to buy a T shirt Money instead will go to Ami Bera, a good doctor and professor running for 7th District around Sacramento: http://www.beraforcongress.com/
   I will vote for Obama, the Supreme Court is too important to ignore. Without the Clinton and Obama appointees, this picture would be solid red.
   

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6. 

   Douglas Keachie

   08 July 2012

   Here is the image I was originally looking for. It should be the Number One Rallying Point for both sides:
   

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7. 

   billy T

   08 July 2012

   Mr. Steele. This is way off topic, but I would be amiss not to tell you that you can become a Mennonite to be exempted from Obamacare, per our discussions on another thread. Mennonites not longer live in communities, but in the general population. No problem there. They can drive automobiles and have electricity and modern conveniences. Can even go to movies. No membership roles. The only thing is that one should dress plain and not outlandish, which you could easily accommodate. Don’t see you as the type to wear spandex overalls sporting chains and a spiked orange rooster hair do. No need to dig up your Native American heritage or become an Amish for the total exemption. You are a Mennonite if you say you are one. Hmmm. After rereading Dr. Rebane’s quote which is the gist of his article… “rebut those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the constant approval of their own conscience. (Anonymous)”. I stand corrected as I am indeed on topic.

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8. 

   billy T

   08 July 2012

   Mr. Keachie, no one disputes that Carter and Reagen faced a different set of circumstances than Bush faced in 2007 and Obama faces today in 2012. Each leaves his mark. The manufacturing sector has been declining for decades, and a robust manufacturing sector helped our country rebound under Reagen. Carter had the same manufacturing sector and problems as Reagen. Japan was the biggest threat back then to us (economically speaking) as the auto industry woes made headlines such as GM LAYS OFF 100,000 WORKERS. Reagen hung the misery index around Carter’s neck, which was a combination of the unemployment rate and inflation rate. Reagen smashed inflation and it has not reared its ugly head since. Japan sailed through the 70’s and 80’s with annual 10% GDP until they started spending too much, inflation soared, there housing bubble burst, and now they are in their second straight “lost decade”. Some much for those that said Japan would soon be the biggest economic power on earth, surpassing the USA. What Carter did was different than what Reagen did. Carter talked about having lust in his heart, while Reagen took control. Obama does not inflation to worry about, but he does need to worry about the fact that 70% of the jobs being created now are part time jobs or full time jobs in the service industry, retail, and other employment in jobs that are below a middle class wage. Today, we have a new misery index: http://bostonherald.com/news/opinion/op_ed/view/2011_0308obama_misery_index_hits_a_record_high

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9. 

   Douglas Keachie

   08 July 2012

   We might just as well call it The Association of American Manufacturers Who Went Overseas” index.

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10. 

    A Facebook User

    08 July 2012

    Doug,
    It was actually many of the policies Reagan put on steroids that created the huge debts, job loss, and income inequality we enjoy today. The Reagan administrations were antithesis of the Roosevelt administrations and it is easy to look the 30 year record of which one worked out best for the most Americans and the nation as a whole.

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11. 

    billy T

    08 July 2012

    Today’s web headlines reads similar to this one: Dems Go on Defensive Over Economy. Have at it boyz, defend the indefensible.

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12. 

    billy T

    08 July 2012

    Ben, I actually do respect your heartfelt plea to end wars. I don’t think the lion will lay down with the lamb anytime soon, but I do understand your point of view and what you are saying. I always said that the first man born on the planet killed his brother and we have not evolved much since then. However, there is hope: If the world were ruled by women then there would be no war… just couple of nations not talking with each other.

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13. 

    Russ Steele

    08 July 2012

    Ben @ 01:23
    I am struggle here Ben, help me out. If Bush’s policies caused the Obama recession, then it seems to me that Reagan caused the Clinton economic boom and surplus. If all the economic issues are played forward and the results are determined by the former President policies, then we have to assign the good and the bad with the same weight. So, it appears that the Clinton policies must be responsible for the Bush economic decline, using your logic. So, according to the play it forward logic, the Obama policies will be responsible for the Romney boom! Bring it on!

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14. 

    Russ Steele

    08 July 2012

    Opps should read “I am struggling here Ben”

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15. 

    A Facebook User

    08 July 2012

    Billy T,
    There is a time and a place to use military force (in defense) but the US has become a military empire and we seem to think we have different rules of engagement than the rest of the world. I think Zinn was as much opposed to the glorification of war as war itself.
    Here is the main reason why I am pro-peace/ anti-war and why I am an advocate of taking care of veterans, those still serving, and their families . The soldiers for any army whether it be national or ideological are taught their mission is just and god is on their side. A vast majority of soldiers are ordinary human beings that want the same basic things in life. Don’t we all want to be able to earn a living, feed ourselves and family, have clean drinkable water, have shelter over our heads, receive medical treatment when needed, and at least provide an equal lifestyle if not greater for the next generation. Those who profit off of war greatest are the very ones who create war and convince the masses the “enemy” are less than human and inferior that want to strip the very foundation of the others culture. This is nothing new. Those asked to kill or be killed would most likely be friends in different circumstances. As the Christmas Truce during WWI exemplifies.
    Here is a good song by Bob Dylan touching some of these ideas.
    With God On Our Side
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xH10e4RP_gU

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16. 

    A Facebook User

    08 July 2012

    Russ,
    Reagan put in place and every administration has continued the policies of boom and bust. Clinton just happened to be in a boom part of the cycle. Clinton administration pushing free trade agreements and deregulating the banks had a huge role in the 2007 banking induced depression. The Clinton administration is why I left the democratic party. The Clinton administration and the Democratic Party leadership embraced the corporate friendly “third way” or “triangulating” form of politics securely creating a duopoly or ending the essential part of a two party system, an opposition party. Labor or the average citizen was left without representation. The rhetoric remains different but on major policies the two parties are very similar.
    I am glad Obama talks about same sex marriage in a positive light and some of the policies eliminating some of the second class citizen status but I personally am more concerned on the numerous free trade agreements the Obama administration has promoted and signed. I am concerned about having thieves like Ruben, Geithner, Summers, Paulson, and Bernanke either advising or having positions in the Obama administration. I am concerned that Max Baucus the chairman of the finance committee who was in charge of the Affordable Care Act and at the same time the number one recipient of health industry contributions allowed lobbyists at the table but had single payer advocates (MD’s and RN’s) arrested. I am concerned that Obama has kill lists, Guantanamo is still open, dropping bombs from unmanned drones, bypasses due process, signed extension of Patriot Act, signed NDAA, ignored habeas corpus, has the USDA under the control of big corporations, Dodd/ Frank didn’t reinstate Glass Steagall or repeal CFMA 2000, and I will stop there because the list can go on and on. The difference between Bush and Obama, Obama puts a friendly face and much better spoken word on atrocious policies.

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17. 

    George Rebane

    09 July 2012

    Re Facebook’s (BenE’s) 1039pm – Neither Reagan nor any other president has “put in place” the “boom and bust” cycles of our economy. Oscillatory booms and busts (formerly known as ‘panics’) are an intrinsic part of large complex systems 1) whose operating characteristics (transfer function) are not well known, 2) whose behavior is observed with error and delays, and 3) whose control laws are even more poorly known. Booms and busts have occurred approximately every 20 years throughout American history.
    In such a situation, attempting to control something as complex as an economy invariably leads to wild oscillations which end in a crash, especially if the control mechanism is centrally imposed to be executed system-wide. Throughout evolution, Nature has minimized that problem through what is called ‘distributed control’.
    The closest Man has come to that approach is with minimally regulated free enterprise. The furthest Man has gone from the achievable ideal has been communism, and its precursor variants of socialism.
    The central control of economies through force and fiat is always an enterprise that operates between ignorance and evil.

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18. 

    A Facebook User

    09 July 2012

    George,
    Your ideology is getting in the way of critical thinking skills, again. From the Washington administration until the Hoover administration there was a banking “panic” at least once every 15 years. Roosevelt put regulations in place and the US had a 50 break from the banking “panics” until Reagan started deregulation of the banks in the early 80’s, promoting the merger and acquisition era, and the stoppage of enforcing Sherman Anti Trust Laws. The Savings & Loans crisis was the return of cowboy banking/ monetary policy that has created the hyper trough and peaks of the markets of the last 30 years. Savings and loans in the 80’s, .com early 2000’s, and housing 2007. All bubbles that didn’t need to happen. Those who suffer most with these bursting bubbles are the pay check to pay check worker.
    B. Emery

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19. 

    George Rebane

    09 July 2012

    Facebook 1005am – The average rate is computed by summing the number of incidences divided by the span over which the incidences occurred. And one should not confuse putative causes ascribed to a subset of incidences with its aggregate rate.
    FYI, I have yet to find a liberal who can grok the content of my 912am, whether offered by me or anyone else comfortable with the concepts (of an admittedly technical nature). But the search goes on, so not to worry.

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20. 

    billy T

    09 July 2012

    Just fix the sucker. That is what we want. I was puzzled with the term “jobless recovery” when it was the new buzzword 3 years ago. Now, we know what it looks and feels and smells like. I dig up past presidents only to make the point of how each dealt with the unexpected. LBJ had the Vietnam War handled to him, something that consumed the lion’s share of his time, energy, and focus. All LBJ wanted was to expand the Great Society and War on Poverty. Vietnam prevented him from fulfilling even a more robust agenda and history will judge both the War on Poverty and Nam was failures. Each president is handed unexpected headaches and must deal with them. Bush had 911 on his watch, Carter the Iranian Hostage crisis and runaway inflation and Obama has to deal with a sinking economy. Look what headaches Lincoln had to deal with, with only a clerk/assistant and the Secretary of War to solve the mess. Guess Lincoln did not need hundreds of White House lawyers and political consultants. Each was guided by his character and moral compass, be it shipwrecked or stronger than steel. This is what Obama has on his plate: 41 straight months of unemployment over 8% and 780,000 less women in the workforce since the day he took office. The manufacturing index just dropped below 50, which signals a contraction. I would hazard to guess that Candidate Obama had bigger plans that LBJ to fundamentally transform America, but he has his hands full with the economy. The label “Campaigner in Chief” sticks because there is too much truth in the moniker. Just fix what you can, President Obama. You can’t control the economy but you can dampen it. It is not Fox News fault or talk radio’s fault. The ball is in your court. Obamacare is starting to look like the Great Society’s War on Poverty. Its the economy, stupid. Take a page from Clinton and do baby steps if necessary instead of damage. To be fair to the left and Mr. Keachie, Obama faces a new type of economy.http://finance.yahoo.com/news/post-employee-economy-why-sky-141135515.html headache:

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21. 

    George Rebane

    09 July 2012

    billyT 1045am – your link is just Yahoo catching up to the pre-Singularity posts on the topic that has appeared on these pages over the last five years. Most recently here
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2012/06/the-john-henry-law.html
    and here
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2012/06/new-people-new-jobs.html
    Recording and debating this phenomenon is one of the mainstays of RR.

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22. 

    A Facebook User

    09 July 2012

    George,
    How about you proving your model with examples of your beloved economic policies on an economy scale larger than a million people that spanned over a decade. Putting the burden of proving a negative is a weaselly and weak position.
    A separate issue, what was your costs to attend UCLA in the 60’s? When compared to today’s generic projected student budget by the University, a resident would have had to pay roughly $4,000 in 1960. I seriously doubt that you paid anything close that amount to receive a higher education in one of the best university systems on the planet at that time. Just wondering?
    B. Emery

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23. 

    THEMIKEYMCD

    09 July 2012

    It is the agenda of the progressives (those that celebrate May Day, Labor Day, etc) that require government FORCE (guns/tanks/prisons).
    History has shown us that the FORCE of various governments have killed hundreds of millions more and imprisoned more than the agenda of the freedom loving pro individual agenda of those on the right. History (and modern day) will also show that capitalism has improved the standard of living for more humans than any other system.
    It is not worth having an economic discussion with someone who has no respect for the individual and worships government as deity.
    At the core of every progressive is hate (exemplified by the biggest bigot in America President Obama). I rest my case on Obama’s hate speech this a.m.

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24. 

    George Rebane

    09 July 2012

    Facebook/BenE 107pm – what burden of “proving the negative” have I asked for? And what has the cost of my undergraduate degree got anything to do with a half century of government fostered bloat in the country’s higher education system (which has repeatedly been pointed out on these pages)? Are we having an attention span problem?
    MickeyMcD’s frustration is understandable.

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25. 

    Douglas Keachie

    09 July 2012

    BTW, the Iraqi Constitution has Iraqicare built right into it, in part, at our behest.

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26. 

    Douglas Keachie

    09 July 2012

    The MikeyMcD, just where the heck is there ANY hate speech in this video of Obama from this morning???
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/photos-and-video/video/2012/07/09/president-obama-speaks-extending-tax-cuts-middle-class-families
    97% of the small businesses of America make less than $250,000/year. Obama wants to extend the tax cuts for them, now. He also agrees to further debates about tax cuts for those making over $250,000 per year. Are you playing the tape backwards and devining hidden messages?

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27. 

    A Facebook User

    09 July 2012

    George,
    It is a two comment challenge to liberals. Given a false equivalence between the natural world and unregulated or minimally regulated free enterprise. I would argue negative feedback for homeostasis would be a more suitable comparison to your argument of a self regulating system.
    To take a market/ economy in the purest perfect form a free market might work but the fact is there has never been a perfect pure market except on very small scale. Just like communism on paper it works or in small communities where anonymity doesn’t exist a free market and totally privately owned business could function well. Much like trying to find a pure communist system a pure free market is just as difficult to find because on a mass scale it cannot exist. Communism is a totally failed form of political system just as laissez-faire capitalism or when ever we try to move towards it fails due to corruption, which becomes crony capitalism, which in turn becomes monopoly capitalism.
    There was very little regulation in the US until the last 50 years and what we saw are many many species brought to extinction, forests harvested to the last tree, rivers overwhelmed with pollution, and business’s hiding the horrific health dangers associated with asbestos for decades to give a few examples. In every one of these examples a small few profited and the vast majority suffered from the after effects. Remember in 1960’s we just tipped the 3 billion mark for global population. As development and populations grow the importance to reign in reckless behavior grows due to it affects more and more people.
    Here is where I feel you gave the burden of proving a negative.
    9:12
    “Throughout evolution, Nature has minimized that problem through what is called ‘distributed control’.
    “The closest Man has come to that approach is with minimally regulated free enterprise.”
    “FYI, I have yet to find a liberal who can grok the content of my 912am, whether offered by me or anyone else comfortable with the concepts (of an admittedly technical nature). But the search goes on, so not to worry.”

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28. 

    A Facebook User

    09 July 2012

    Mickey,
    “History has shown us that the FORCE of various governments have killed hundreds of millions more and imprisoned more than the agenda of the freedom loving pro individual agenda of those on the right.”
    Go to any third world country (no government infrastructure in place) and try to measure the childhood death rates on one issue alone (drinkable water) and your numbers will be absolutely dwarfed in comparison. That is one issue.
    Here is a good speech from a man who somehow understood the needs of average women and men.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czvHtOh_Xew

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29. 

    THEMIKEYMCD

    09 July 2012

    Keachie, simply insert one of the following in lieu of ‘rich’ or ‘making over $250k’: “Black”, “Jewish”, “Female”, “Gay”, “Fat”, “Short”, “Disabled” and see if that helps your comprehension. Of course, I assume you believe bigotry to be hateful.
    This may help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigotry
    I have a friend who takes a shot of whiskey every time Obama says “fair share”; he has been drunk for 5 years.

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30. 

    THEMIKEYMCD

    09 July 2012

    Ben Emerey, thank you for accepting the fact that you promote the use of government force to attain your agenda. Ironically, each third world country has the government system you support/promote.

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31. 

    THEMIKEYMCD

    09 July 2012

    Bin Emrey p.s. I was indoctrinated into the ‘Government = god’ religion in the public school system via FDR worshiping curriculum [so please spare me].

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32. 

    A Facebook User

    09 July 2012

    Mickey,
    I will be more specific of a nation in mind, which as one of my brothers American Libertarian friends called it a perfect illustration of libertarian success. The nation is Cambodia. No taxes, no water, no electricity, no government services outside downtown in the city regions. One in three children will die before the age of five due to a water born disease. I believe in good government, which means representative government of the people not special interests a.k.a. American Interests. I would expect more coming from a private Lasallian educated person.
    FDR had it correct on many policies (too many to start naming) and the biggest problem we face today is that we have had a 30 year assault on those very policies. The banking regulations is one of the big economic policies I am talking about.
    112th congress is the newest version of the do nothing congress. I will not be voting for President Obama again but do understand the economic woes of our nation have been made much worse by obstructionist republican party to win an election. Unfortunately for our nation the republican party will bring down the US government and the democratic party is too weak to stand for the people of the United States of America. I wish President Obama would talk and act like the man giving this speech.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nuElu-ipTQ&feature=related

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33. 

    George Rebane

    09 July 2012

    Facebook BenE 734pm – It may come as a shock, but my description of the workings of distributed control in nature and its analogue to economies is a well established thesis. It was Masanao Aoki who in the early 1970s left engineering and took his world recognized expertise in stochastic control to the business and economic side of academe. Suddenly distributed and stochastic control became a hot ‘new’ topic of study in economics, and has so remained since economists who understand systems theory. His early papers motivated the stochastic calculus solution to options pricing by Black and Scholes among other contributions. However, putting that theory into practice has encountered very high ideological and political hurdles. And with Obama in the saddle, it is not even on the administration’s radar.
    In any event, I still don’t see what defense of the negative you claim that I required. BTW, I do agree with a lot of your second and third paragraphs as the record of RR demonstrates.
    Re your 909pm – picking Cambodia as your example was a doosey. It was the debating equivalent of pulling the legs off of a pinned beetle. Nevertheless, I’ll take it as your best shot.

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34. 

    Paul Emery

    09 July 2012

    Well George, Mikey since you offer no examples of contemporary governments that come close to being an example of the direction you prefer we are left to guess to find examples to extend the conversation. You’re views offer entertaining conversation but in the words of Clara Peller “Where’s the beef?” In that sense B. Emery as least is coming up with something (Cambodia) as an example which you seemingly cannot offer.
    By the way Russ, Romney’s outright support for TARP is just the beginning of his support for
    Bush’s economic dictum.

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35. 

    Douglas Keachie

    09 July 2012

    The public school system did not teach Stephen Decatur to treat his country as God, as we see in this excerpt from a blog located here:
    http://richardjrobinson.blogspot.com/2007/01/my-country-right-or-wrong.html
    Saturday, January 13, 2007
    My country, right or wrong
    This bizarre, odious and possibly insane sentiment originated with a slightly more innocuous toast by Stephen Decatur (1779-1820), an American patriot of the post-Revolutionary period (when it no doubt seemed very sound). In 1816 he proposed thus:
    Our country! In her intercourse with foreign nations, may she always be right; but our country, right or wrong. (Quoted in A. S. Mackenzie, Life of Decatur, ch. 14)
    Carl Schurz [?] made a better stab at it:
    Our country, right or wrong. When right, to be kept right; when wrong, to be put right.
    But ‘my country, right or wrong’ (only the other side of vox populi, vox dei) is all that has come down to popular consciousness, and to provide countless little reactionaries with a rhetorical flourish to their vulgarity, in response to which GK Chesterton replied:
    “My country, right or wrong,” is a thing that no patriot would think of saying except in a desperate case. It is like saying, “My mother, drunk or sober”.
    Nor do all Americans share Decatur’s views:
    You’re not to be so blind with patriotism that you can’t face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it. (Malcolm X)
    And in general, to a European ear, so much of American ideals and ideology is barely intelligible. As GK Chesterton also said:
    There is nothing the matter with Americans except their ideals. The real American is all right; it is the ideal American who is all wrong.(New York Times, 1st February, 1931)

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36. 

    A Facebook User

    09 July 2012

    Paul and George,
    I picked Cambodia due to my brother living there the last 6 years, has a wife, speaks Khmer, and is the only foreigner in the organization he helped start. I have visited before and plan on going this fall again. I know the conditions and my brother knows how the government works or really doesn’t work for the people. The government services are very similar to what American Conservatarians claim they want. I think Haiti, Somalia, and the Philippines fit the description of very little government services, infrastructure, safety nets, ect.. to give some more examples.

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37. 

    THEMIKEYMCD

    10 July 2012

    Does a man have basic protections under the law (to protect his personal property, life and liberty) in Cambodia?
    A quick review shows a relatively small population, extremely low unemployment under 3.5%, high growth economy GDP growth above 10%, valuable resources [farmland, oil, rubber, etc] and health issues of which a free market can (and is) addressing. Cambodia has not been on my ‘exodus list’ because of the language barrier (I am told Khmer is challenging), the new government and lack of Christian Values.

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38. 

    George Rebane

    10 July 2012

    PaulE 1023pm – You have started circling the same barn for the umpteenth time. We have already exhausted the notions of ‘closest approach’ to governance represented by our diverse ideologies. And in the process your requirement for an exact implementation has been rejected numerous times by people with all those ideologies. The problem always comes down to doubling down on dumb, for which we conservatives claim as evidence we have a century of history behind us, and today a continent of countries in front of us at which to point as exemplars.
    (But what the hell, I’ll offer the much preferred epoch of the 1990s when, under a Republican Congress and a President busy keeping his pecker polished, the country was in a much better shape. We can do it.)
    Nevertheless, you are correct in that the debate in the larger sphere is not over. I will be addressing it again this coming weekend – keep your powder dry.

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39. 

    A Facebook User

    10 July 2012

    Mickey,
    The numbers and statistics you cite are a very inadequate way of measuring a undeveloped society, which shows the little understanding you have of how much of the world lives. One third of the worlds population lacks access to clean drinking water, which is 2,300,000,000(billion) people, many who are children. 3 billion people live on $2US a day and 1.5 million of those live on less than $1US a day.
    I think here is the great divide continued in my opinion. I see the number 3,000,000,000 and I envision 3 billion people who are mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, and friends who have feelings/ souls that live in abject poverty. I get the feeling you never get passed the numbers, which allows it to be calculated as a mathematical statistic.
    I will try and download some pictures I can link that shows what rural life looks like. For now here is an image of better looking home in rural parts of the country. Most homes are on stilts for flooding during the wet season.
    http://www.travelblog.org/Photos/1451449

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40. 

    THEMIKEYMCD

    10 July 2012

    Bin Emry, it is because of my compassion that I fight for personal liberty. It is because of my hands-on knowledge of economics that I know freedom to be the best tool to lift people out of poverty (moral, physical). You worship governments/guns/violence/FORCE as the answer to poverty despite facts proving the opposite. Ironically, it is your hatred and illogical process that further convinces love-focused-thinkers that a government with absolute power has never and will never improve the quality of life for the individual OR the collective.
    Your insults do not cover your erroneous contention that increased personal liberty correlates to increased unsafe drinking water (or poverty).

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41. 

    A Facebook User

    10 July 2012

    Mickey,
    Safe drinking water in general correlates with government infrastructure and regulation. It is an essential piece in becoming a developed nation. The more we go down this road the more you expose the limits of your knowledge and understanding with the planet from which you live and the fellow human being inhabitants (I don’t include corporations as a human being).
    During the depression (which was caused by unregulated housing market and financial sector) through the 50’s the US federal government did massive infrastructure projects that paid themselves back tenfold over time. Many of those same infrastructures are used today. It was these very policies that set up the accomplishments of the “Greatest Generation”. The GI Bill of Rights or Serviceman’s Readjustment Act (Roosevelt policy) allowed millions of returning military to be the first in their families to get a college education and own a home. Unfortunately over the years the law got more and more watered down.
    “You worship governments/guns/violence/FORCE as the answer to poverty despite facts proving the opposite.”
    I believe in a democratic republic form of government, which elects those among the governed to govern. The rest of the statement is so ridiculous it doesn’t justify any further comment.
    Our wedding anniversary was purposely picked to celebrate along with our nation for this document and its sentiment.
    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…”

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42. 

    THEMIKEYMCD

    10 July 2012

    I drink from a well that is not regulated, produced [drilled] or maintained by any government agency. #magic!
    I have a rain water collection system that is not regulated, produced [drilled] or maintained by any government agency. #magic!
    I suggest Bastiat’s The Law to help you focus your worldview [which in this comment thread has spanned from FDR’s socialism to quoting the most libertarian document every written (DOI)]. #focusdanielson

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43. 

    George Rebane

    10 July 2012

    Bastiat’s The Law is accessible through RR’s reading on the Bastiat Triangle.

    Click to access Bastiat_Triangle_Alliance.pdf

    Written in 1849, it is short and tightly written, a worthy volume for your library.

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44. 

    THEMIKEYMCD

    10 July 2012

    Perhaps a couple role plays would help:
    Should SS be mandatory or voluntary?
    Should employERS be required to ‘enforce’ SS deductions from paychecks?
    Should taxes be assessed in an equitable manner (flat versus progressive)?
    Should employERS be required to act as the tax collector for the IRS and State taxing authority?
    Should a ‘central bank’ be responsible for the ‘setting of interest rates’ or should the market set rates?
    Should a government be permitted to print unlimited amounts of money AND disallow its citizens to use their own forms of money (silver/gold)?
    Should the government be in the ‘business’ of philanthropy?
    If you limit the power of government don’t you also limit the power of special interests/corporations vying to buy special treatment from said government?
    Should an employER lose his individual rights when he hires an employee?
    What laws are you willing to send a father of 4 to prison for ignoring?
    Should pseudo agencies like CARB (state), Department of Energy (fed/state), Department of Education (state/fed) be given the right to enforcement powers (detain/arrest/carry guns)?

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45. 

    Russ Steele

    10 July 2012

    Ben@your 12:16pm
    You wrote: “one third of the worlds population lacks access to clean drinking water, which is 2,300,000,000(billion) people, many who are children. 3 billion people live on $2US a day and 1.5 million of those live on less than $1US a day.”
    I agree, and just think if we had not wasted billions to save the planet from global warming, which was just a normal climate cycle. The US spent $60.4 billion to solve global warming, Japan wasted $78 billion and EU is spending 375 billion a year to control global warming. Yet, there was been no warming for over 15 years. Just think, it would only take only a few billions to provide clean water for to the millions with out clean water, yet we are spending billions to control a natural climate cycle. Why is that?

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46. 

    Paul Emery

    10 July 2012

    Mikey
    I am told that NID actually owns the groundwater in Nevada County. Does anyone know anything about that? Also, why don’t count in the “wasted money” tally the 3 Trillion $ estimated we’ll spend on our unconstitutional wars in Iraq and
    Afghanistan.

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47. 

    Paul Emery

    10 July 2012

    The second part of my response was meant for
    Russ.

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48. 

    THEMIKEYMCD

    10 July 2012

    Paul Emery, I am right there with you on the ‘wasted money’ on unconstitutional wars. As for NID… if they owned it we’d be getting taxed on it; though nothing would surprise me at this point.

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49. 

    A Facebook User

    10 July 2012

    Mickey,
    I guess it needs to be spelled out for you. Many if not most of the nations that are the poorest, lowest living standards, don’t have access to drinking water, and promote very authoritarian form of governments hold many of the tenets of your ideology. What they really represent are the remnants of kingdoms, feudalism, and caste systems.

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50. 

    A Facebook User

    10 July 2012

    Mickey,
    I can’t let your post go without a response.
    On $1 or $2 a day go ahead and purchase your own property, set up a rain capture system, store it in purified tanks, and dig your own well without electricity for a pump. Lets compare it to a time when these ideas were common in the US, 1920. The equivalent of $2 in 1920 would $0.17 a day. Good luck champ. I seriously doubt you have done hard labor for any extended amount of time in your life. Don’t forget your about paying for rent, food, clothes, and I know you would have health care savings and retirement accounts set up as well because you’re responsible.

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