Rebane's Ruminations
June 2012
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George Rebane

These pages have long covered the advances and uses of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) or ‘drones’ for surveillance and interdiction.  My usual examination of new technology in such areas includes its portent as a tool to install and maintain tyranny.  I suppose that suspicion is built into my double helix.  Well, apparently that genetic predisposition is shared by quite a number of people across the country, but it is definitely absent in the progressive elites and their local echo chambers.

UAV_SWATThis has been made clear in the comment streams on this (e.g. here) and other blogs that report the approaching menace of surveillance drones filling the skies over America.  UAV manufacturers are running over each other in the effort to sell their wares to every imaginable jurisdiction and government agency in the land.  What again did Lenin say about ‘the capitalist will sell us the rope with which we will hang them’?  All of this, of course, goes along with the proliferation of armed enforcement capabilities throughout federal and state governments (e.g. Department of Education buying shotguns and arming their ‘agents’).

Now we read that people across the country are beginning to be alarmed about the next step Big Government is preparing to make sure that we will remain docile and under control.  The 19jun12 online Washington Times reports ‘Talk of drones patrolling U.S. skies spawns anxiety’ that details the concern about this arising in Congress.  In the meantime be prepared for our collective cohorts to start pooh-poohing such concerns, and ascribe those concerned to the dimwitted divisions of the political Right.  … while we quietly watch and wonder.

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93 responses to “That droning you hear …”

  1. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    BiiT has it right on his view of the pervs that go to Burning Man. But those same pervs can vote and now we see what we get and America is not better off. MishaelA is a failed local transplant here and not well thought of a someone people want to be around. That is a 180 degree from myself who is dearly loved and respevted in our community. LOL!

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  2. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Short answer: blast away.
    Long answer: It may be like shooting a police dog, which is a Bozo No-No. A small drone hovering over the back porch would not be for commercial purposes. Now, if I was a meth head or had an illegal grow going on, it would make me more paranoid that a ho in church. Guess it depends it is was just passing thru or hanging around. Don’t think they have a long range currently, which means “they” will be coming soon.
    Don’t think any of us would object to drones used for search and rescue or the like. I would not be opposed to using drones in the National or State Forests to catch some of illegal Mexican growers polluting our watersheds. Seems they never catch the peons at the camp, just their piles of rubbish. I can envision even NID using them along canals, or PG&E looking for downed lines after a storm.
    Bottom line. If it is hanging around and spying on little ole me for no good reason, this law abiding citizen would be tempted to mistake it for a predator attacking my cat and drive what is left of it to the e-waste recycling center. Gotta recycle things in their proper place.

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  3. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Remeber, these anti drone types like PaulE and MichaelA were very happy to have the NH2020 police come on your property and count the plants types and critters. Too funny.

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  4. Paul Emery Avatar

    I think Todd should start his own blog. I suggest calling it the Lizards Breath.
    Todd, if you’re sooooo loved in the community why do you have to join dating services to try to pick up on liberal women. Looking for hippie nookie I guess. Pretty boring on the conservative side. I know, that’s why I switched to the libs back in my college days from being a Barry Goldwater Conservative. Much more fun.

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  5. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    PaulE, I am so in demand I have to use the internet. I get mobbed by babes hen I am seen in town.

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  6. George Rebane Avatar

    Gentlemen, RR is not a forum for explicating readers’ sexual deficits or desiderata. No doubt more suitable ones exist. Nuff said.

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  7. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Sorry George I was just kidding.

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  8. Walt Avatar

    Leave it to a local LIB litigator to try and ban,and outlaw any remote controlled
    aircraft. has this woman demanded Betty’s toy box be raided for their R/C customer data base?
    It’s time to buy a “drone”. Camera and all. Why? because someone want’s to tell me I can’t. I did the same when the evil Bushmaster AR was tarred and feathered.
    I foresaw what was coming the day after the CO. theater shooting.
    Now to scrounge together the bucks for a quad rotor, HD cam with FLIR, and inferred.
    I’m glad I saved my radio control equipment from my early days of R/C flying.
    Ya’ never know when those will come in handy.

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  9. Paul Emery Avatar

    Walt
    So you don’t have a problem with your neighbor having the right to buzz a drone around your property and take photo’s?

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  10. George Rebane Avatar

    Walt 1250pm – Please share with us the configuration of the drone rig that you assemble, if you will. May want to strap one of those things together myself 😉

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  11. Walt Avatar

    Paul. My neighbor? Let him… He may go blind from what he may see.
    It’s the “G” man I take issue with. The “unreasonable search” from above
    has been going on unchecked as it is.
    George. It all depends on how much to spend. ( I gotta go on the cheap)
    The quad rotor is a nice stable platform, with a good lifting capability,
    and can hover vary well. ( there are a few that are gyro stabilized… but out of my price range.)
    A 1/8 scale helicopter was the “go to” before the quad rotor came out, and the cost is more to my liking.
    An air to ground video link would be great, but I’m still at duct taping
    the handicam to the undercarriage stage. ( I’m a cheap SOB)
    Back in the good ol’ days I hade a prefab, foam plane I stuck a disposable
    film camera in. I never knew what I would get a picture of. But it was fun.
    (one of those first, cheap auto wined jobs)
    That was 25 years ago.
    With todays options building one with off the shelf parts is easy.
    I would have to get my computer genius Son to pick the “right tools for the job”, since new stuff comes out almost weekly. Assembly and flight is the easy part.
    The only real use I would have, is to peek over and see what laws elected government officials are breaking.( add ECO tyrants to that) They growing dope? Unpermitted structures?
    grading without a permit? You know,,, the same stuff they fine US for.
    Actually,, you can go to any mall and buy a helicopter with a built in video cam. But VARY short range. ( about 50 yards at best)

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  12. Walt Avatar

    Instead of spending time piecing one together,
    This is a good way to start.
    http://www.draganfly.com/uav-helicopter/draganflyer-x6a/
    To get started decide on a camera payload of either the Panasonic 20X optical zoom TZ-30(ZS20) or Thermal FLIR Tau.
    I would get both cameras.

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  13. Paul Emery Avatar

    So once again no support from the so called property rights crowd on this basic privacy issue. Trying to find any common ground seems to be impossible. So drone away with partisan bullshit and give the powers that be one more tool to control us. The reality of snooping by neighbors and cops is not new but the cavalier attitude by those who claim to oppose such actions is remarkable.

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  14. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 301pm – what support are you looking for Paul? I guess you again didn’t read the post.

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  15. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    PaulE, why no response to the fact you support NH2020 police and are against the drones? Don’t you think your sincerity is suspect?

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  16. Paul Emery Avatar

    Todd
    You apparently forgot that I was opposed to NH2020 so don’t make things up and misrepresent me. Do we have to go back to that again? Must be a memory loss problem.
    George, what we have here is a firm proposal to ban Drones in Nevada County for all activities except those spelled out in the initative. I doubt most on this blog have yet not read the Initative. Talk is cheap. This is a real proposal on the table.
    Once again I’ll post the link.
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/154540240/Nevada-County-Drone-Initiative-Title-and-Summary-Request

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  17. Paul Emery Avatar

    double negative
    should read I doubt most on this blog have read the Initiative.

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  18. Walt Avatar

    Now that ya’ got me looking closer at these things, and just what is out there,
    I found a neat one for under 5 Benjamins! ( My price range)
    This one even has auto pilot! It’s called “spy hawk”. A google search will bring you right to it.
    Now it’s time to hold a yard sale.

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  19. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    PaulE, where is the proof you were against it at the time. Please give me some articles quoting you or links with your name showing you did not support the NH2020. I think I am actually coerract here.

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  20. Paul Emery Avatar

    Not available or necessary Todd. Do you ask that of everyone who expresses an opinion? There was a group of us who felt NH2020 was unnecessary and divisive. Things aren’t always what you assume Todd. Personally what you think is irrelevant to me anyway so whatever-it’s all good.

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  21. Gregory Avatar

    Paul, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a more fundamentally flawed proposed ordinance as that drone screed.
    A summary:
    Any remote controlled model with a camera is unlawful in Nevada County, even over your own property.
    You have to pay someone $5K if you take pics of them or their property no matter if the pic was taken intentionally and no matter what the intent or use of those pics might be.
    Police/fire/rescue can use drones in very limited circumstances, not including looking for pot grows on public land.
    Nice try, guys. Not a chance.

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  22. Paul Emery Avatar

    What is your recommendation Gregory? Do you feel the need to protect privacy? By the way thanks for reading the link

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  23. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Wow, this drone thread is popular.
    I’m with George and DM, I need to procure a fleet of these babies. At least two in the sky at all times, patrolling the perimeter of my property, on alert.
    Maybe arm ’em later in the exercise…

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  24. Gregory Avatar

    Paul, there is nothing in that ordinance that properly protects privacy and property rights.
    I have a right to operate any drone at low altitude over my property, the property of others with permission or public property (the latter could be subject to safety regulations).
    On public land, there is no expectation of privacy out in the open. Do the horizontal bop in a tent if you don’t want to be seen by scouts on a hike, the cops or someone operating a glider with a GoPro attached. If you don’t want a pot grow to be seen from the air, don’t grow outside, especially on property you don’t own.

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  25. Gregory Avatar

    Terrestrial cameras are more cost effective.
    The Peace Center offering is so transparently against drones being used for pot searches on public land (or by neighbors operating a drone within their property lines) they’d have been better off just writing what they wanted and not be seen as disingenuous.

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  26. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Gregory wrote: “On public land, there is no expectation of privacy out in the open. Do the horizontal bop in a tent if you don’t want to be seen by scouts on a hike, the cops or someone operating a glider with a GoPro attached. If you don’t want a pot grow to be seen from the air, don’t grow outside, especially on property you don’t own.”
    Oh man, no truer words were spoken. Which is why Todd’s Burning Man comments are so completely idiotic. A decade or so ago, yeah things happened on the playa that were (cough) untoward. Not today. IT’S PUBLIC LAND, CRAWLING WITH COPS. If you smoke a doobie on the playa, you WILL be busted. If you pee in the open, you WILL get a very expensive ticket. No open sex, kids, just like no open sex is allowed on Broad Street.
    But I don’t fault Todd for not keeping up with the times. He lives in a little Calendar Box from 1954, eating grilled cheese sandwiches made from American cheese and Wonder Bread, staring at his Ronald Reagan pictures in his garage for hours at a time, and scouring the Mine Shaft/McGee’s for hippie chicks (thank you, Paul) that will give him at least one tumble before they realize he’s a troglodyte.

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  27. Gregory Avatar

    “Machado says the crimes reported at burning man this year included open and gross lewdness, twelve sexual assaults, battery and various property crimes and DUI.”
    It does seem that Todd wasn’t all that far off. I’d guess there was more open and gross lewdness than the cops managed to witness.

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  28. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Have you ever attended, Greg? Or are you just reporting from the seat of your pants, as usual?
    Machado has his panties in a bunch probably due to some political considerations of which you are most likely unaware.
    The fact of the matter is that since about 2004 Burning Man has been scrutinized by LE to a much higher degree than other festivals like Coachella or Lollapalooza. And Pershing County is suing Burning Man, LLC for a greater cut of the $$, being the bastard step-child county (population ~7K) to Washoe County, which rakes in the dough and views folks like Sheriff Machado as a pain in the rear.
    The amount of crime during the 7 days that the largest art festival in the world is open is FAR LESS than the average crime stats you would find in any city of 68,000 during the same period of time. FAR LOWER, in all categories. It’s just a fact, and it cannot be refuted. But I welcome you to try.
    Greg, if you want to take Toodles’ side on this discussion, bring it on. But I suggest you do some more reading before you go there. Here’s a good start: http://www.rgj.com/article/20130823/EVENTS04/308230039/State-fed-law-enforcement-integrates-2013-Burning-Man

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  29. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    One thing that many people who have never been to Burning Man don’t realize is that there are a huge number of attendees who are Republicans and Libertarians. One of the things I enjoy most about this event is being able to sit down to a meal with folks with which I am philosophically opposed in certain areas, and we find common ground and work together to make the event the success that it is today.
    I know for a FACT that if George and Todd were to attend, they would say, “oh, I had no idea…this is nothing like what I thought it was.” Maybe in 2014.
    Here is another link that might help y’all grock what’s going on out there in the Big Dusty: http://nevadastatepersonnelwatch.wordpress.com/tag/sheriff-machado/
    The First and Fourth Amendments live strong on the playa. And back in the day, the Second Amendment reigned supreme.
    People who comment on Burning Man who have never attended the event is sort of like someone trying to comment on a Carnival cruise without ever having sailed on the open sea.

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  30. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Paul Emery | 10 September 2013 at 05:03 PM
    PaulE dodges again by telling all how he could care less about me or my questions then jumps into personal private attacks. Too funny. PaulE, you are a total hypocrite and all can read it here. You cannot produce anything written or spoken on your claim to be opposed to NH2020 and we are to believe it? Sorry Charlie. Produce something from the time and I will stop asking. But you won’t because they do not exist. You are a KVMR radio host with opinions and news opinions. But as usual you are against drones but favored NH2020 police on our private property.
    MichaelA is now dissing the Sheriff at BM for doing his job and arresting the pervs and criminals there. MA even tries to convince the readers that the crimes there are no different than any city (ask the rape victims MA). Sorry but that is the lamest crapola spewed from his mouth in at least a day. BM is a bunch of loony tunes running around in bunny suits (pr none at all) and doing odd and perverted things to one another. Drones can help keep the peace out there on our public lands. I am not to keen on nuts like MA using my lands as a perv dump off for so-called “art”

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  31. Walt Avatar

    Need a good laugh? I don’t know how I didn’t hear about it before.
    “The Sierra Sun reports that Neil Young was on his way to an environmentalists festival when his custom-made $1 million biomass-powered hybrid electric car broke down on a stretch of California highway lookin’ more than two lanes wide near Donner Summit last month.”
    http://dailycaller.com/2013/09/10/neil-young-went-crazy-horse-after-his-electric-car-broke-down/

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  32. Bill Tozer Avatar
    Bill Tozer

    Paul E, I have not read the drone ordinance yet. But, I finally did read your Marijuana Emergency Ordinance you posted a few months back and it was informative.
    The preface to the ordinance was to prevent crime by farm bandits by keeping gardens out of sight. And to prevent young juveniles from seeing a plant and making it too much temptation for the youngins. And respect for adjoining parcels. Never could figure out what a translucent fence is. I guess deer fencing would be transparent and an old fashioned dog eared wooden fence would be opaque. Translucent would be plastic?
    To tie this into government agency drones, I suspect pot garden setbacks and sq footage size would alarm only those in violation. Read that you cannot have it so many feet from a neighbors home if you have different size parcels in different zoning. Like 300′ from an adjoining parcels house if you have 10 acres and it is zoned agricultural, 200′ feet if you have 5 acres (but less than 10 acres) in the same zoning. Growing on a vacant adjoining parcel is forbidden.
    Drones in this case could fly over vacant parcels and find the law breakers…er…those out of compliance.
    I always wonder why a patient would need pounds of medicine each year. I am told by those in the know that 6 plants should produce ten pounds of medicine. That is a lot of huffing and puffing over one year’s time.
    I can understand this drone thing strikes a nerve with all of us. We are getting leery and weary of the NSA doing the anal probe of our life’s history and recording our daily to and fros. Just a couple of days ago it was announced that “they” can hack into Blackberries and I-phones and I-pads easily. “They” also said not to worry, they will only use it to for the bad guys.
    Bad guys like vets, Christians, gun owners, Tea Party folk, and others that are a threat to National Security. Especially them Christians. Profiling? Nah, that is something the libs would never go along with.
    Heck, Google has already done its street by street video mapping of the entire country. I checked it out once myself. I could zoom in on that little Hawaiian hula dancer I formerly had on my dash on a car before I took it to the junk yard. She looked so cute from outer space.
    Drone ordinances and little butterfly drones in general just add to the suspicion of Big Brother watching you scratch your head and another “us” vs “them” issue. Thanks for the link, I will read it tomorrow.

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  33. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Todd, why is it that you are so immune to facts and figures? As George and Greg constantly harp upon (and I agree with them), innumeracy is a debilitating socioeconomic condition and we must stomp it out. When will you step up to the podium, admit your debilitation, and commit to the hard work to fix your problem?
    Todd wrote: “I am not to keen on nuts like MA using my lands as a perv dump off for so-called ‘art’.”
    Wow, pretty open-minded there. Isn’t the BLM all about the “Land of Many Uses”? I guess you are not much of a less-gov’t libertarian after all. Just another authoritarian asshole who doesn’t know how to use a spell checker.
    Finally, the only “perv” going on here is in your twisted little still-7th grade mind, trying to get under the shirt of sweet little Sarah, who caught on to your pervy ideas and ran from away from you under the football field bleachers at NU. Whatever.
    Isn’t it time for some waffles?

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  34. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    No MichaelA, the facts are on my side. Sure, you and your lib loons can criticize others spelling and feel superior I guess, but that hubris does not bother me at all. Burning Man is as I said, the Sheriff of the county agrees and your are wrong again.
    I do admit my superiority though in the attraction Sarah has for me. Too funny.

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  35. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Tozer, I have that exact same hula dancer glued to the dash of my art truck…she’s been there since 1997. See? We have something in common! Kumbaya, etc.
    BTW, I’ll be on KNCO tomorrow at aprox. 12:30 pm being interviewed about Internet security, NSA probes, and other nefarious gov’t intrusions. Turn up the volume and have a fun radio romp while chewing your rubber sandwich. Todd, I promise not to mention you by name (-;

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  36. Gregory Avatar

    mandersonation, you are conflating two issues. Personally, I think perversity, debauchery and drug use on a Hunter S. Thompson scale is OK among consenting adults. The issue was Todd saying the playa party was closer to that than the Lawrence Welk Show and you pretending it was good fun for the whole family.
    There may be as much open and gross lewdness, sexual assaults, battery and various property crimes and DUI in, say, St.George, Utah as at Burning Man, but I doubt it. I’m also sad for all the young un’s for whom “sex, drugs and rock and roll” was instead masturbation, crack and Madonna. That explains a lot.

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  37. Gregory Avatar

    I second the fond memory of Sarah. What a babe.

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  38. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I had a radio shoe for four years on KNCO and debated liberals and other nuts. 1995 to 1998. I gave it over to Karen Chileski. That was accomplished because the ownership had fired Jim Ruffalo and I organized a huge protest in the rain and the owners saw the results of their folly. I was Chairman of the Republicans (I was elected again) and had CABPRO going then. I think you may have been up at McGees talking about ganga fertilizer. So you go tell the public all about the drones at Burning Man and you can use my name as one who believes anyone attending is a perv. Too funny.

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  39. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Greg: “… was instead masturbation, crack and Madonna.”
    Not sure where that came from, but one of the best dancing spots at Burning Man is Distrikt, which is basically a mini spring-break manifestation that happens every day during the event between noon and sundown, probably the most egregious young-un clothes-off party on the playa, and a big favorite of LE. They LOVE to “police” Distrikt, all in the name of safety and security (-:
    Talk about pervs, LE are the biggest boner hounds on the playa. Just sayin’.

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  40. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Todd warbled: “So you go tell the public all about the drones at Burning Man and you can use my name as one who believes anyone attending is a perv.”
    Dude, the subject matter tomorrow has nothing to do with Burning Man. I was referencing you in terms of describing people who are low-information citizens (Rush Limbaugh’s terminology), and promising that I would not describe you by name as such. Even though you are a perfect example. A poster child.

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  41. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    BTW, Maxwell Smart had a radio shoe. And we all know how well that worked!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJiV1XWtCyk

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  42. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    The point your low information brain misses MichaelA is I discussed government surveillance and you totally missed it apparently. You are just dense, and no one cares what you say anyway. You are truly the Maxwell Smart of these blogs. Too funny!

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  43. Gregory Avatar

    The note about Distrikt also boosts Todd’s jabs so I’m not sure why MA included it, and “Just sayin’” is one of the emptiest phrases on the planet.
    Most burners are too young to have ever attended a Dead concert as an adult; large crowds with a crime rate more like St.George, UT than the Playa, and as the Firesign Theater might have remarked, attendees took drugs seriously at Grateful Dead concerts.

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