Rebane's Ruminations
April 2012
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George Rebane

The shooting of Trayvor Martin has raised a fundamental rights issue that most of us have for long thought was a done deal in a free society – namely, whether a law-abiding citizen is still allowed to defend himself with deadly force should he be the victim of an attack that may leave him dead or maimed.

MuggingBefore the progressive assault on the law abiding and victim, there was no question that such a permission was a fundamental right of a free citizen.  It is ensconced in the Bastiat Triangle (q.v.) and was interpreted as such by our Founders.  Until recently, ‘stand your ground’ SYG was not even called out per se in our legal codes – it was naturally assumed to be the right and the proper thing to do when criminally assaulted.

Today things are different, and should you find yourself having your brains battered out or about to be stabbed, your instincts to defend are subject to severe post mortem scrutiny by our justice system should you prevail in your defense and in the process the assailant is killed, injured, or suffers some other form of inconvenience.  Amazingly, the first question the victim is supposed to correctly answer is ‘could you have followed some other course than put yourself at the mercy of your alleged assailant?’  In short, justify that you had to be there and then when the low life decided to make his move on you.


Answering that you didn’t know that the low life would be there and stalking, is no longer an automatically acceptable answer.  The legal shyster (aka defense counsel or prosecutor) will then ask whether a ‘reasonable person’ would have known, with the clear implication that, YES a reasonable person would have known and would therefore not made himself an attractive nuisance to such low lives.  The further implication here being that YOU were the one not acting reasonably.  Instead, you thoughtlessly (or intending to entrap?) became an attractive nuisance for such encounters which could easily turn into an assault.  In short, you brought it on to yourself, and now another low life is dead, in the hospital, or emotionally stressed beyond consoling.

But if the victim successfully manages to survive this legal maze of questions, the interrogation proceeds to whether you could have successfully escaped after the assault began.  The implication being that again a reasonable law-abiding person would have seen an available escape and taken advantage of it, thereby obviating the entire SYG issue and defusing the assault-in-progress before anyone got hurt.  The victim’s response, that perhaps he was then not in a position to perform a deliberate search for alternatives and go through a decision process as to which would be the most beneficial for the low life, is guaranteed to escape the nuanced thinking of the interrogating legal beagle.  Again the victim will be painted as having defended ground that should have been relinquished.  That you were scared beyond measure, by the low life who threatened your life or was already in the process of taking it, is swept aside in such proceedings, and most certainly by the lamestream pros covering the case.
 
Speaking of the lamestream, God help you if there’s a hint of ‘race’ involved the encounter.  The whole situation sells a lot more advertizing and satisfies a whole host of established ideology if the victim can be painted, even if with just a hint, as a racist thereby making the whole thing a candidate for, yes, a hate crime.  And, of course, the victim is the putative criminal who three generations ago had an uncle in the KKK.  However, if it happened to be one of the uncounted assaults and murders that the minorities perpetrate on each other every day, then no one gives a crap.  And so it goes today.

My own feelings on the SYG matter is that once the assault has started, the victim has the right to do anything to the assailant that will increase the victim’s perceived odds of not being murdered or maimed during the assault.

There, I’ve broached the inclusion of uncertainty and how it must be considered in choosing a response that, in the mind of the victim, maximizes the probability of his survival (the ‘odds’ favoring an event happening is calculated by dividing the probability that the event happens by its complement, the probability that it will not happen).  Therefore if during the stress and excitement of an assault, the victim has the presence of mind to consider the alternatives of attempting to flee or using counterforce (deadly or otherwise), and he chooses counterforce, that is his right and prerogative.  The assailant’s rights were taken out of the equation the moment he initiated the assault.

If the victim has available deadly counterforce, then clearly the proper choice would be to use it since that increases the victim’s odds of surviving (murder or maiming).  Choosing to flee – presenting your back to one who, perhaps, is much more fleet of foot, and who already has threatened your life – raises the question of how likely to succeed would such an attempt be, given the contingencies of the situation.  And again, that assessment remains the prerogative of the victim, and not that of a post hoc smart-mouthed lawyer.

In the universe I live in, all critters from a gnat to a nobelist are evolved Bayesians.  They and their long line of ancestors learned to exercise their hard-wired Bayes rule decision makers eons ago.  Granted, they did not compute out the probabilities to the third decimal place, or maybe even to the units level, but they got it close enough, and often enough that here we all are.

Thoughts?

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118 responses to “Stand Your Ground – Some Thoughts”

  1. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    “SYG does not depend on ‘owning’ a certain amount of real estate when out in public. It does depend on the degree of danger perceived by the victim of an assault.”
    Try moving to and standing inside the personal space of a drunk much bigger than you, and you will be enlightened. In typical USA culture, that means any closer than 24 inches is intruding, and 18 inches or closer is absolutely inside said zone, which belongs to the stationary person. You need to study non-verbal communications and in particular, proximics:
    “Proxemics: Physical Space in Communication
    When you are talking to someone stay out of their “ intimate space” they want to talk to you but just do not want to have you all over them. “ Most animals have a certain air space around their bodies that they claim as their personal space…1-18 in being the intimate zone, 18-48 in being the personal zone, 4-12 ft. being the social zone and the public zone at over 12 ft.”[3]
    Proxemics is the study of how people use and perceive the physical space around them. The space between the sender and the receiver of a message influences the way the message is interpreted. In addition, the perception and use of space varies significantly across cultures[10] and different settings within cultures. Space in nonverbal communication may be divided into four main categories: intimate, social, personal, and public space.
    The term territoriality is used in the study of proxemics to explain human behavior regarding personal space.[11] Hargie & Dickson (2004, p. 69) identify 4 such territories:
    Primary territory: This refers to an area that is associated with someone who has exclusive use of it. An example is a house that others cannot enter without the owner’s permission.
    Secondary territory: Unlike primary territory, there is no “right” to occupancy of secondary territory, but people may still feel some degree of ownership of such space as they develop the custom of occupying it. For example, someone may sit in the same seat in church every week and feel irritated if someone else sits there.
    Public territory: this refers to an area that is available to all, but only for a set period, such as a parking space or a seat in a library. Although people have only a limited claim over that space, they often extend that claim. For example, it was found that people take longer to leave a parking space when someone is waiting to take that space.
    Interaction territory: this is space held by others when they are interacting. For example, when a group is talking to each other on a footpath, others will walk around the group rather than disturb their interaction territory.”
    from the wikipedia on non verbal communications, not a bad summary.

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  2. billy T Avatar

    Morning Professor Keachie. Using Dr. Rebane’s illustration above and using Dr.Rebane’s picture on the header, I am puzzled. Perhaps you can offer some insight. How can two people with no necks and no hands pull a trigger? Seems kinda difficult to fire off a round without fingers. Also, without necks how can Andy and Ben keep from losing their heads in a stressful situation?

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  3. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Here is what happens when the Keachie philosophy about stand your ground is done. Seems there were 20 on one at the victims house. Black on white, no mainstream media lynching here.
    http://www2.wkrg.com/news/2012/apr/23/man-beaten-mob-critical-condition-ar-3659891/

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  4. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    Wonder just exactly what claim this guy had to the street in which the kids were playing basketball? Did he own the street? Did he threaten the kids? Like in the Trayvon Martin case, I guess we will never know….. What sort of armament would allow you to fend off a mob? What does it have to do with what I wrote above? Are you scared it will happen here? Well, most likely not here, but in South Sac you had best be on your best behavior, and avoid confrontations, should you need to stop for gas or cash, that’s just my common sense speaking, because justly or not, condoning Zim’s actions, as for example a certain person here going on and on about melon heads, then claiming he hasn’t “taken a stand” is reverbrating through the cultures of the USA. It’s going to be a hot summer….
    Billy T, your deflection attempt is nice, but doesn’t detract from the fact that Trayvon was yelling for help, not Zimmerman, when the gun was fired. Seems unlikely he’d be doing that if he had almost gotten the gun away from supposedly on the concrete (and grass) Zimmerman.

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  5. George Rebane Avatar

    DougK 1010pm – you have an interesting view of how a life/death encounter proceeds – all those thoughts of purposely shooting to wound. A conversation with a peace officer as to how they are trained to respond to a close quarter assault might be illuminating. For a layman (yes, the 2nd amendment allows naifs to also carry guns) the choices quickly are reduced to ONE, that which maximizes his probability of survival PERIOD.
    Re your quandary with the ‘help, help, …’ scenario which you keep bringing up. Has it ever occurred to you that another reason why the yelling for help stopped “after the one shot” was really because the person who was yelling was finally able to successfully shoot his assailant, thereby obviating the urgent need for further help? In that case, should not the armed victim be praised for attempting to summon less lethal help before opening fire?

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  6. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    The story was carried on CBS local affiliate, and based on what occurred, I have no doubt it will go national shortly. How long did it take the Trayvon Martin case to go national, Todd? Over a month! Fox already has it, and it occurred yesterday. Looks like Owens may have used racial slurs at a minimum, and God knows what threats, to provoke such a reaction. No doubt the kids embellished it when they told their families. Do you know about the black woman who fired one shot into the ceiling of her garage to scare off her soon to be exhusband who was under a restraining order to stay away, who now faces 25 years in good old FL, because apparently the SYG law does work in her case, even though she was in her own home? If I were black I’d be pissed too, when the law is so blatantly applied according to race.
    “Even family and friends of Matthew Owens admit there was some tension on this street before Saturday night’s event. And they say a lot of this has to do with basketball. Relatives of the victim, who live on the street, say local kids often block Delmar Drive when they play basketball. They say it’s lead to some confrontations. Racial comments from both sides may have made the confrontations more toxic.”

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  7. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    Correction: “because apparently the SYG law does work in her case, even though she was in her own home? ” should read “because apparently the SYG law DOESN’T work in her case, even though she was in her own home?

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  8. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    George, the preliminary forensic evidence is that the voice is NOT Zimmermans. You must have missed that, although we shall both have to wait final testing.

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  9. George Rebane Avatar

    Another factor to consider when an armed victim shoots his assailant. Our dysfunctional legal system working under politically correct guidelines in the lee of carefully selected butt-stupid juries is not one on whose tender mercies the shooter will want to place himself once the wounded assaulter gathers about him his wits, greedy relatives, and shyster lawyers. Legal history has proven more merciful when there survives only one compelling story of the account.

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  10. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    “Legal history has proven more merciful when there survives only one compelling story of the account.”
    But is justice served if that “compelling story” is a complete fabrication?
    I’ll await final ID of the “help, help help” when a firm like http://www.forcomm.com/Home.html gets done doing the analysis. Perhaps you are unaware of just what amazing science is done in cases like this?

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  11. Brad Croul Avatar

    SYG seems to be pretty obvious. Did it really need to be legislated? Everyone has always been able to stand their ground, if they are willing to get further involved with the perpetrator. The obvious solution is to turn around and walk away in the face of the messed up train-wreck of a human being that is threatening or assaulting you (if you can handle the shame of perceived lost machismo in not duking it out, wild west, cage-fight style).
    In GeorgeR’s 0944pm scenario, it might be difficult to grab your hideout piece from your ankle or small of your back if you are flat on your back with someone on top of you chocking you senseless. If you broke free you could either run, yell, or shoot back. But if you are free and have a way out, why shoot them? Obviously, shooting someone should be the last resort.
    In Zimmerman’s case, he had a gun and provoked Martin, then shot him. He was not standing his ground. His ground was in the cab of his vehicle talking to 911.

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  12. George Rebane Avatar

    DougK 906am – I’m heartened to hear that you’ll now wait for evidence before continuing to pillory Zimmerman. And yes I am aware of the advances in the detection, (speaker) identification, and understanding of speech (and have also had the privilege to have contributed to the science. I do apologize if my posts and comments come across appearing to some readers that my training and career has been in art history).
    BradC 911am – Well, it appears that another mail-order jurist has examined all that need be examined and rendered his verdict. Who said all this forensic analysis and legal stuff was difficult?

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  13. billy T Avatar

    I dunno. When the individual mandate was headed to the Supreme Court of the United States of America, we all expressed our opinions and then it became eerily quiet once it landed in the Court. Same with OJ’s Nevada trial. I just dunno and at this point it is in the court system. Oh, yes it is fun to express opinions like the Casey Anthony and OJ#1 and Rodney King Police Beating while the trials were going on. Jury ruled in those 3 cases not guilty. So, I just dunno from way out here. I do know that my 1932 Chicago Prison Riot rolling carriage 10 gauge standard issue is so menacing that it scares the pants off of me just to hold it. 10 gauge is so Depression Era anyway. Rolling carriage was a great invention. Not practical to carry around on Saturday night. I also am certain that no one has ever raped a .38, but stranger things have happened.

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  14. Gregory Avatar

    “we shall both have to wait final testing”
    We should all let the justice system work.

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  15. George Rebane Avatar

    Some commenters might be amazed at more than what modern technology has contributed to speech analysis. The additional amazement comes from attempting to understand the reported testimony of the experts on the audio containing the cries for help. I have expanded on this in ‘Courtroom evidence – the Z/M case’ here
    http://rebaneruminations.typepad.com/rebanes_ruminations/2012/04/courtroom-evidence-the-zm-case.html

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  16. A Facebook User Avatar

    George,
    I have been waiting for your coverage of the right wing islamophobe trial for murdering 77 people and many of them were children. They were targeted due to their family association with the leftist Labor Party.
    40k Norwegians sang a song about diversity
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x38IvKCwDaw

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  17. George Rebane Avatar

    Facebook User 812am – The Breivik case was extensively covered in these pages. Don’t know what I could add to it in the trial phase. Do you have a particular issue about the trial that needs airing?

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