Rebane's Ruminations
March 2012
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George Rebane

That Rush Limbaugh called Sandra Fluke a slut is a debate for other fora, but I do want to reflect on the broader ramifications of having the state pay for the prophylactics used in sexual intercourse.  The practice is hugely supported by the left because it underwrites another cut to the traditional cultural mores, especially as they are touted in the Judeo-Christian ethic.  The purported social purpose for the entitlement is that people like Ms Fluke will climb in bed with or without the proper contraception, and if she and her partner are both carefree then the care of her offspring will not be free for the rest of us.  So we should pay for her pills or IUD or whatever.

Reducing this argument to its elements says that society should collectively assume the costs of attempting to prevent behaviors of the irresponsible and indigent, which costs are lower than the subsequent collective costs of dealing with the after effects of such behaviors.

In the minds of many of us, the next question that pops up right away is ‘where does it stop?’  What about the state paying for the statins of people who love to eat fat burgers so that we don’t then have to pay so much for treatment of their subsequent cardio-vascular maladies?  And we can go on to the taxpayers having to bear all kinds of preventative burdens that used to be the personal responsibility of the individual or his family or his relatives or his church; you get the idea.

Here we have the case of a woman who admittedly screws so frequently with diverse partners that neither of them can be counted on, in the heat of the moment, to undertake their pleasures with proper preparation.  One could counter her congressional testimony with the plea that if her activities were, shall we say, more episodic or less frequent, then the specialness of the occasion would naturally invoke other behaviors in the prelude that would prevent an unwanted pregnancy.  But apparently that is not the case with Ms Fluke and her peers.

In order to prevent this new entitlement creep to become a gallop, perhaps we could suggest that she might fund her own 24/7 protection by charging a fee, or asking her partners to chip in a small amount that would total to her ongoing costs of such enterprise.  This would place the burden where it should be borne, and nip in the bud another round of ever expanding and never ending public expenditures.

[5mar12 update]  A reader gives us a heads up on the sad tale concerning Ms Fluke that, in short, reveals that she's no fluke when it comes to  progressive public pyrotechnics.  The source is the American Thinker, where we read –

"Ms. Fluke is long-time feminist activist who graduated in 2003 from Cornell's "Feminist, Gender, & Sexuality Studies." In the decade since then Ms. Fluke has become a political professional for a huge range of feminist causes. She has worked for the (Democrat) Manhattan Borough Taskforce on Domestic violence and…."

The rest is here.

[6mar12 update]  This morning's leftwing NPR Morning Edition contained a segment on Limbaugh's 'slut apology'.  It was classic propaganda to keep this issue alive and focused on the very narrow subject of how Limbaugh characterized Fluke.  In the piece the reporter's entire argument anchored on Fluke being "just a civilian".  To the uninformed listener, the woman was just a random Georgetown University law student with a pocketbook problem in that her and her friends'/peers' rights were being violated by having to bear the cost of their own contraceptives.  Her professional and public political activities were purposely misrepresented, she was anything but "just a civilian".  I base the 'purposely' claim on the fact that Ms Fluke's past and professional agenda have now been broadcast over the countryside, and could not have been missed by NPR's equally professional investigative reporter.

So the pot must be kept boiling and the focus kept on 'slut' instead of the proper breadth of national entitlements.  I am heartened that here on RR we are discussing the important issues regarding the implementation of Obamacare that have been raised by this incident.  I suppose the 'slut gambit'' served its purpose – most certainly here – as an attention getting device.

And here is a fresh perspective from Ms Cathy Ruse, Georgetown law alum and senior fellow for legal studies at the Family Research Council.

Posted in , , ,

204 responses to “The Sad Tale of Sandra Fluke (updated 6mar12)”

  1. Brad Croul Avatar

    I was under the impression that it was birth control pills, not prophylactics, that were at issue. Condoms are available and easy to come by.
    Preventative medicine is a good idea and should be supported by the insurance companies.
    If your fire insurance costs go down with the implementation of fire alarms, sprinklers, etc., why wouldn’t the costs associated with medical care go down with pregnancy prevention measures?
    What is the cost of the pill for coeds compared to the costs associated with pregnancy, abortion or delivery, C- sections, complications, foster care, etc.?
    To put an anti-religious/socialist/communist spin on this subject is really stretching it.
    What’s up with the logic of Viagra being provided to old men on Medicare, but young women who don’t want to suffer for the rest of their lives because they got pregnant “accidentally” are barred from getting some pills as part of their college health plans? I believe there are fees paid during registration at schools for health plans.
    Vasectomize all newborn boys when we circumcise them. You don’t need semen to make a baby anymore. You just need some DNA. Problem solved.

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  2. Michael Kesti Avatar

    I subscribe to several lefty email lists to see what they have to say. I recently received one from Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, the Chairman of the Democratic National Committee. It opened with, “This isn’t the 1950s, it’s 2012. Why we’re debating a woman’s access to birth control is beyond me.”
    What is beyond Wasserman, and apparently most liberals, is that it is not access to birth control that is being debated, but the notion that birth control is an entitlement.

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  3. Robert White Avatar

    Bravo George! Now that is the way Rush should have said it. He must be getting lazy.

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  4. David King Avatar

    Brad said:
    “To put an anti-religious/socialist/communist spin on this subject is really stretching it.”
    Too late. 🙂

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  5. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    “every child a wanted child.” Society has a very strong interest this notion. The expense is minimal, in terms of results achieved. Trying to keep women barefoot and pregnant, has just destroyed any chances for the Repubbys in November, thanks for all your efforts!

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  6. George Rebane Avatar

    BradC 952am – Prophylactics (i.e. preventatives) is the label for the semantic super-class under which birth control pills, condoms, IUDs, creams, diaphragms, … are sub-class instantiations.
    But in general, it appears that the point of my post and the concern that I’m trying to communicate is again behind a blindspot for progressives. Sort of like a one tune band that can’t go beyond the immediate case presented.
    Should Obamacare actually kick in in all of its destructive glory, I will be applying to have the rest of you help me pay for my running shoes, treadmill, healthy food component of my grocery bill, stress reducing music CDs, visits to/from my grandkids, …, and divers other expenses all shown clinically to avoid morbidity and extend life. (Unless, of course, the death committees mandate that my time to depart has come.)

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  7. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    How about this? I will gladly pay for her condoms if she signs a contract to not ask or have or ket the taxpayers pay any money if she has children.

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  8. billy T Avatar

    Brad makes some valid points. STDs are a health issue and should remain under the health department, but we are taking about if you are going to play, you are going to pay. Yes, we give prisoners free Viagra to protect their constitutional rights of their pursuit of happiness, but most prisoners make little money and are charged with attempted escape if caught with greenbacks. The lady told Congress that it cost her 3k for contraceptives during law school. I guess Law Schools charge more on campus that buying them at Walmart or going to Planned Parenthood. I once bought some Viagra, but unfortunately ran out of Ginkgo Biloba and forgot why I bought the little blue pills. Whether the young lady is a slut or not I can’t say from here but chances are she has seen more Patriot Missiles than there are in the New England locker room. Once Obamacare kicks in we all will be paying for maternity insurance whether we be male or female, whether we like it or not, whether the other party is a irresponsible nympho or not. I have known a few nymphomaniacs in my day. They are the ones that want it when I don’t. At least the young law student bought contraception, albeit she was not too happy about that cost.

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  9. Russ Steele Avatar

    Here are some thoughts from the Illegal Insurrection on the boycotts of Rush’s advitisers:
    Indeed, Carbonite still advertises on the show of Ed  Schultz, who makes unhinged attacks on the Tea Party and conservatives daily, and called conservative talk show host Laura Ingraham a slut (for which he later apologized).
    In his initial press release, David Friend, the CEO of Carbonite, stated that he would be speaking personally with Rush next week to discuss the issue.
    Then Saturday night, the CEO of Carbonite issued a statement withdrawing advertising from Rush’s show notwithstanding that earlier in the day Rush has issued an apology.  The text is in my prior post.
    The reaction among my readers and others on Twitter has been fast and furious, focusing as much on Carbonite’s hypocrisy as well as the way in which Carbonite so publicly injected itself into the political fight.
    Make no mistake, the fight is not over Rush’s words, for which he has apologized.

    The post concludes:
    It’s time to take a stand against those advertisers who succumb to the pressure.  We should not expect advertisers to take sides, and I would not want Carbonite to stop advertising on the Ed Schultz show.  Carbonite should return to its prior, politically neutral position.
    We need to send a message that we will not acquiesce in the new left-wing tactic of trying to force conservatives off the air by targeting advertisers.

    I was thinking about giving Carbonite a try, before fire season rolls around, but not any more.

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  10. Bonnie McGuire Avatar

    The whole argument is stupid. We’re already being taxed to death to pay for the unwanted babies by people who expect others to support them. A racket for some. I feel sorry for the children. Obviously, sex education can both prevent, or stimulate what comes naturally…but educators emphasize they can’t moralize! What the heck? When I was a kid in school we earned special recognition for good citizenship. Does anyone know what a good citizen is? Sigmond Freud said individuals and nations reach greatness through self-discipline. We’re seeing the opposite. Don’t our personal choices have consequences that we learn from? We’ll never learn anything if someone else picks up the tab for our “mistake.” Especially if someone warned us and we wouldn’t listen. It’s the same with drug and alcohol addiction, but sex addiction creates unwanted human beings. Reminds me of the song lyrics “My mamma told me it would be like this” (but I wouldn’t listen.)

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  11. Wade I Avatar

    The health insurance provider for Georgetown University students (and frequent loser of price-gouging, fraudulent non-payment, and option backdating lawsuits) is UnitedHealth Group. NYSE: UNH.
    This Minnesota-based corporation is, notably, not “the state.” So, no, “we,” the taxpayers aren’t paying for anything in this case.
    With that straw man out of the way, we are left simply clucking our tongues in disapproval over the thought that young women might be having [too much] sex. Which, of course, is what this whole “controversy” is about in the first place.

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  12. Russ Steele Avatar

    Wade0339,
    You are wrong, she can have all the sex she has time for, I just do not think that taxpayers should be paying for it. Let the guys she is having sex with pay for it, Oops that make her a. . . . If we agree to pay for sex what else, will be have to paid for as a preventive for some future health issues. Check this out f=rom Buffalo:
    As thousands of teachers face layoffs across the country, teachers in Buffalo, New York are getting lipo? Yep. And nose jobs and whatever else they want. All on the taxpayers’ dime. How is this happening?…
    The sweet deal that all the 3,400 teachers in Buffalo are eligible to get under one of their insurance plan options, they are billed nothing for any plastic surgery procedure, such as botox, liposuction, tummy tucks, and there is no deductible.
    Linda Tokarz teaches second grade and says she gets regular treatments. She says, “I think its great for us. I wouldn’t want to see it taken away.”

    Who is paying for all this? The taxpayers in New York, who pay the insurance company. With no deductible there is not sense of responsibility. If there is free contraception paid for by the tax payers , where is the need for responsibility?

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  13. George Rebane Avatar

    WadeI 339pm – I agree with RussS that no one here on either side of the political divide cares about the intensity of her sex life, only about who pays for it. If it were a matter only between her and her insurance company, then congressional testimonies would not be needed. We understand that Ms Fluke wants her school to pay for her dalliance, which action must be mandated by the government. In the larger sense, the more entitlements the government forces insurance companies to bear, the higher the premiums for us all. An argument that there is not a direct feedback path from this activity is weak. And then we start talking about the ‘creep to gallop’ phenomenon.
    (BTW, welcome back.)

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  14. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    If I am not mistaken. condoms are freely provided to members of the military in war zones. How come we should be apying for them to have fun. Or is rape considered a means of war, and thus requiring of protective equipment??

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  15. Russ Steele Avatar

    A little insight from Hot Air. If the left is in to boycotting Rush Limbaugh, the what about these dispeciable lefties, should they be bycotted as well:
    “But if Limbaugh’s actions demand a boycott—and they do—then what about the army of swine on the left?…
    “[T]he grand pooh-bah of media misogyny is without a doubt Bill Maher—who also happens to be a favorite of liberals—who has given $1 million to President Obama’s super PAC. Maher has called Palin a ‘dumb twat’ and dropped the C-word in describing the former Alaska governor. He called Palin and Congresswoman Bachmann ‘boobs’ and ‘two bimbos.’ He said of the former vice-presidential candidate, ‘She is not a mean girl. She is a crazy girl with mean ideas.’ He recently made a joke about Rick Santorum’s wife using a vibrator. Imagine now the same joke during the 2008 primary with Michelle Obama’s name in it, and tell me that he would still have a job. Maher said of a woman who was harassed while breast-feeding at an Applebee’s, ‘Don’t show me your tits!’ as though a woman feeding her child is trying to flash Maher. (Here’s a way to solve his problem: don’t stare at a strangers’ breasts). Then, his coup de grâce: ‘And by the way, there is a place where breasts and food do go together. It’s called Hooters!’…
    “This is not to suggest that liberals—or feminists—never complain about misogyny. Many feminist blogs now document attacks on women on the left and the right, including Jezebel, Shakesville, and the Women’s Media Center (which was cofounded by Steinem). But when it comes to high-profile campaigns to hold these men accountable—such as that waged against Limbaugh—the real fury seems reserved only for conservatives, while the men on the left get a wink and a nod as long as they are carrying water for the liberal cause.
    “After all, if Limbaugh’s outburst is part of the ‘war on women,’ then what is the routine misogyny of liberal media men?”

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  16. George Rebane Avatar

    DougK 532pm – What are you saying? – a little more detailed explanation is required for this old brain.

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  17. billy T Avatar

    The argument put forth by Ms. Fluke is both silly and also has grave consequences. Silly because exactly 3.2 miles from Georgetown is a Planned Parenthood that passes out free birth control. Silly because Fluke said 40% of the female law students struggled with the financial burden of birth control. Hello! A full time law student is known as a starving student. Guess the other 60% went to Planned Parenthood, did not worry about contraception, or are rich little Daddy’s girls. It is silly that the Left is making Limbaugh’s statement a rallying cry that the evil Right Wing is up to their old tricks again by putting women folk back into the Chastity Belt where they belong. The Neo-Cons are assaulting Mom, Womanhood, Apple Pie, and equal rights. Not to worry. The fair minded Left is here to save the day. We have come a long way. baby, and we aren’t going back to the stone ages. Yep, the Left is sure to score political points on this one.

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  18. Russ Steele Avatar

    Here is another point of view on Rush Limbaugh, contraception costs, and Sandra Fluke
    by Luboš Motl Pilsen, Czech Republic
    America is entertaining itself with Rush Limbaugh’s reaction to the political discussion about contraception subsidies. All kinds of people are attacking Limbaugh – and he probably enjoys it because he depends on publicity.
    However, I find these attacks weird and kind of scary because Limbaugh’s basic logic seems bulletproof to me.

    Read the whole post HERE.
    Luboš concludes:
    The spectrum of people who have attacked Limbaugh is so wide that I no longer think that the U.S. may be faithfully described as a free or Christian country. It’s a country de facto controlled by feminists and their speech codes. I think that e.g. the people at Harvard who agree with Limbaugh – and most decent people should – must shut their mouth at this point because the harassment of such people by the left-wing media and those who serve them in the contemporary U.S. has become intense and constant.

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  19. billy T Avatar

    The grave consequences are this. The government cannot tell a religious organization to discard its doctrines and beliefs and step in line. It is all about the 1st Amendment. The Supreme Court of the United States recently voted 9-0 to deny the grievances of a single pregnant teacher who was fired from her teaching job at a Catholic school. The government argued that the school was a free association of people no different from the Elk’s Club or the Bird Watching Society. . The Supreme Court could not believe their ears and even hinted to the gov’t lawyers that they must have skipped their classes on the 1st Amendment. A religious organization has a firewall forbidding the State’s intrusion that is clearly spelled out in the 1st Amendment. Yes, I understand the points that it is cheaper to have unborn babies than born babies. Way cheaper. I also understand that many Catholic women discard the Church’s teachings and use contraception. Those points avoid the real issue. Georgetown is a Catholic school that uses a Catholic insurance provider whose parent company is a Catholic Organization. Obama’s end run around the Constitution is to have insurance providers “volunteer” to pass out free birth control. That’s right. The big bleeding heart insurance companies are going to give something away and not make it up somewhere else? Scottie, beam me up. Perhaps a compromise can be reached and some store will pass out free plastic rain ponchos to solve the problem. Cheap and reusable and prevents sexually transmitted diseases. When was the last time the Supreme Court voted 9-zip? Restores my ebbing faith in the Court.

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  20. George Rebane Avatar

    RussS 634pm – good find of a wider perspective. Thanks to your email of FUE’s blog and comments, there the conservative discussants here are described as “sick puppies” and “insane” by the resident progressives. It continues to be noted that there is never any shred of debating or discussing the issue, only name calling. Talk about intellectual bankruptcy, and hence the hastening of the Great Divide.

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  21. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Looks like the troglodytes on the local leftwing blogs are out in force. Rush is safe, there are so many businesses that are in line to advertise it boggles the mind. The Truckee effete are really spewing.

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  22. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    Oh and I emailed all the advertisers who are claiming they are pulling their ads from Limbaugh tonight. I said what is good for the goose! It really goes against my ideology but this is too important to to let the libnuts have their way. We grownups must fight fire with fire.

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  23. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    Did you actually listen to Ms Fluke’s testimony? Here it is. You should give it a listen before making such broad generalizations as:
    “Here we have the case of a woman who admittedly screws so frequently with diverse partners that neither of them can be counted on, in the heat of the moment, to undertake their pleasures with proper preparation.”
    I’ve included this c span video to assist you in your research,
    http://current.com/16hv4kc
    Please show me where in her testimony you arrived at that conclusion.
    By the way, this discussion continues the dream come true diversion from substantial issues that will insure Obama’s reelection and possibly secure the Senate for the Dems.

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  24. David King Avatar

    I think the left has achieved universal victim status; or at least the U.N. should declare them as such.
    http://tinyurl.com/7dl7qxo

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  25. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 825pm – first, let me thank you for that extremely revealing link to an hour’s plus ‘testimony’ about ‘women’s health’. If you can sit through the opening propaganda salvos from Pelosi and friends, then you hear Ms Fluke deliver the biggest load of bovine scat about everyone else not paying for someone’s sexual intercourse prophylactics ever stuffed under the umbrella of ‘women’s health’.
    It is truly remarkable how differently our ideologies view what Fluke claims as some kind of unalienable women’s health rights that have now been discovered under Obamacare. Her tales of tears about women turning away from pharmacy counters, unable to afford the most expensive prescription prophylactics, really had me choked up. And then I remembered rubbers and diaphragms and all kinds of other cheaper alternatives. It just takes wee bit of time to get the cheaper equipment strapped on or applied. It’s not that long of a wait – really.
    But that’s not even the point. I and at least half the country don’t want to pay for her (and yes, she said it’s her) $3,000 cost of contraceptives while she’s going to law school.
    And regarding “substantial issues”, the Repubs wanted to bury this one upon conception, it was the Dems who, along with their lamestream, have made this into a national issue. Congressman Issa was absolutely right not to bring her in front of his committee. But costwise it will become very substantial when the millions of women line up for their contraception fixes, and then the creep-to-gallop that I describe above occurs.
    In sum, thanks a bunch for digging up this link. Everyone not convinced of the farce of this brand new entitlement (‘women’s health’ my a$$) should definitely submit to Ms Fluke’s testimony – seeing Pelosi straining to stay awake is well worth the price of admission. And stand by to pay for my new running shoes and treadmill.

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  26. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    “What are you saying? – a little more detailed explanation is required for this old brain”
    Double standard. It is OK for the government to subsidize “boys will be boys,” but not OK for the government to subsidize women? Those condoms issued in war zones are not exactly going to be for lawful conjugal visits, you know.
    Socialism is also OK for big business (oil depletion allowance, no severance taxes here in California, crop subsidies for Doug LaMalfa, etc) but not for Jane or John Doe? BTW, also actively boycotting Georgia Pacific paper products, all made by the Koch brothers, as well as anyone advertising on Savage, Rush, etc., and have no problems buying at Home Depot, others, when CABPRO lit is available at B&C, others. I do support KVMR sponsors, and shop SPD, groceries and saw.
    You would think that the spread of aids would make any intelligent person conclude that probably as a preventative alone for spreading and eventually MUTATING that disease would be enough incentive to make contraceptives universally free, at least the barrier types.

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  27. Michael Anderson Avatar

    Sorry guys, I’m going to have to go with Pelline, Frisch, and Emery on this one.
    Gosh, it’s as if you have no young people in your midst. They don’t find you quaint. They find you dead. As in “when will these idiot dinosaurs pass away so we can get on with our lives.”
    Look, I’m an old guy too. I see the same look in their eyes when I say even moderate things. But you are so off the mark on this one you might as well get in a spaceship and find another planet to live on. How you framing this is completely wrong. And embarrassing.
    This is a civil rights issue, and we are fighting over Selma all over again. Shame on all of you.

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  28. John Galt Avatar

    Paul Emery, thanks for the link to Fluke’s testimony:
    I listed to Fluke’s testimony and extracted the following quotes and notes from it:
    Fluke is a 3rd year law student at [Catholic/Jesuit] Georgetown lawschool. She’s also a past president of Georgetown Law Students for Reproductive Justice.
    She said that Georgetown students faced “financial, emotional, and medical burdens as a result [of the failure of Georgetown’s student medical plan to not provide contraceptive coverage.]”
    She described contraceptive coverage as necessary to meet the “critical healthcare needs of so many women. ”
    “When I LOOK AROUND my campus, I SEE THE FACES of the women AFFECTED by this LACK of CONTRACEPTIVE COVERAGE and especially in the last week I have heard more and more of their STORIES on a daily basis …..and the tell me they have suffered FINANCIALLY, EMOTIONALLY, and MEDICALLY because of the lack of [contraceptive] coverage.”
    “Without insurance coverage, contraception, as you know, can cost a woman over $3,000 during law school. ”
    “For a lot of students, who LIKE ME, are on PUBLIC INTEREST SCHOLARSHIPS, that’s practically an entire summer’s salary.”
    “40% of the female students at GEORGETOWN LAW reported to us that they STRUGLED FINANCIALLY as a RESULT of this policy [of not providing contraceptive insurance coverage.]”
    “Women’s health clinics are not able to meet the CRUSHING DEMAND [by women] for contraception care services.”
    “Women’s health takes a back seat to a bureacracy focused on policing her body.”
    “In 65% of the cases at our school [Georgetown] our female students were INTERROGATED by insurance reprentatives and univerity medical staff about why they need prescriptions [for contraception].”

    Question for Paul Emery, Steve Frish, and Michael Anderson: Do you believe Ms. Sanrad Fluke spoke the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in her testimony?
    –John Galt

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  29. billy T Avatar

    This topic has evolved to where it should be. Not focusing on the word slut, but rather, should rubbers be given out on demand to any person for free? Its this the new civil rights issue concerning voluntary behavior? If someone does not like rubbers, Walmart and Krogers sell generic birth control pills for $9 a month, sometimes as low as 4 bucks/month. Of course birth control pills do not prevent AIDS, the clamp, the drip, or a host of STDs flavors of the month. Mr. Anderson frames the issue as “This is a civil rights issue, and we are fighting over Selma all over again. Shame on all of you.” Hmm, a Georgetown Law Student pays $23,400.00 per semester and we are taking about Selma and access to a drinking fountain? Bottom line, Ms Fluke is a useful tool for those who espouse the right of get free contraceptives on demand for life. Maybe The Donald’s wife should whine about the cost of generic birth control. Nothing personal, but here is Ms. Fluke bio. It is pretty impressive and she just did not magically appear before Congress. Happy to see she graduated from Cornell in 2003. Smart lady. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/sandra-fluke-a-fake-victim-of-georgetowns-policy-on-contraceptives/

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  30. billy T Avatar

    3k would buy about 7,500 rubbers, give or take. Since there are 365 days a year, that works out to be about 6-7 rubbers a day, 24/7, for 3 years. If she paid 30 bucks for BC pills/a month instead of driving the 3.2 miles to Planned Parenthood, that would be $1,080 for three years, including summers. If she paid 80 bucks a month, that would work out to be $2,880 for three years whether she had a summer break or not. She may be a bright lady, but like many highly intelligent people, she is being ripped off on her purchases. Maybe she could do some coupon clipping or drive the dreaded 3.2 miles to Planned Parenthood. We all gotta watch or pennies in fat times as well as lean times.

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  31. Paul Emery Avatar

    George
    So you admit to commenting on Ms Flukes character before hearing her testimony. Again can you show me her testimony that led to you characterization as a woman who screws frequently with multiple partners. Did I miss it or did you make it up. This is pretty disgusting George and it’s frankly disappointing that you would lower yourself to that level of discussion when you so can strongly make your case without it.
    Right now Rush Linbaugh is Obama,s biggest vote getter. It’s unbelievable the self destruction of the Republican party.

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  32. Michael Anderson Avatar

    Exactly Paul, it’s positively mind-blowing. As a Baby Boomer I thought I was a dinosaur, but man oh man…the kids today think this discussion about contraception is being held by crazy people from outer space. Any one of you here espousing these ridiculous ideas, I challenge you to find someone under the age of 30 who agrees with you. Just one, that’s all I ask.
    “John Galt” wrote: “Question for Paul Emery, Steve Frisch, and Michael Anderson: Do you believe Ms. Sanra Fluke spoke the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth in her testimony?”
    Yes, I do. Look, it’s none of your damn business why a woman needs birth control pills. IT’S MEDICINE. Birth control pills are sometimes used to control a heavy period flow, for example.
    The policy we’re talking about is whether or not we will allow an employer to make decisions about her health care. HER HEALTH CARE, HER INSURANCE COMPANY, HER MONEY!
    It’s civil rights, folks. Fifty years ago we told people with private businesses that they could not have separate lunch counters for black people and white people. This is the same thing! Private businesses, or religious organizations, cannot be allowed to have separate health care plans for men and women. They don’t get to decide how health care is delivered.
    Does a business owner get to decide if one of his workers driving to work in the morning has to drive on a gravel road, or gets to drive on a paved road, just because he’s an employee of that business?
    The reason this is suddenly an issue is because PPACA is straightening out our byzantine health care system and standards are being applied across the board. You guys don’t like it because it’s finally pulling us out of the 19th century, where you find things (at least socially) all cozy and warm.
    Note to dinosaurs: Horse. Left. Barn. Already. But go ahead, keep digging. Knock yourselves out.

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  33. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    If ever there was a issue with two sides this seems to be it. Rush has apologized so that under the liberal rules of the past means we are moving on. Regarding the ridiculous statements of MichaelA about dinosaurs and how the young hope everyone older should croak, I must say, how embarrassing he is.(you first MichaelA)
    The real issues are not the concern they can’t get a rubber. It is the gas prices and food prices. Nutballs on the left and their supporters change the subject and the left as exhibited by MA is hilarious.. I am glad it happened over the weekend and I am waiting for Rush to speak about it in a hour and a half. Michael A is why America is in the trouble it is. Rather than solving the real issues of the soccer moms, he is in their reproductive canals. MichaelA must not have any common sense if he thinks the electorate is even paying attention to this and they are far from holding anyone on the right to task. Fluke’s testimony is a total embarrassment to women and their reproductive issues. I don’t think any woman other than a few liberal women. sit around the campfire and wring their hands that Obamacare doesn’t cover their rubbers.

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  34. Gregory Avatar

    Generic birth control pills cost $9 a month at discount pharmacies. Ms. Fluke is lobbying for regulations requiring insurers to pay for $3,0000 a year contraceptive programs, without copays.
    Checking the cost of name brand condoms at a leading big box store, one can have sex an average of once a day for $10 a month.
    Let’s get real… with managed single payer health care, you ain’t going to get the $3K a year benefit if the single payer writing the checks has decided the $120 a year solution is all you are going to get. And they will make that decision.
    Note to the Fantasylanders… there is no free naked lunch.

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  35. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    I held my nose and read some comments on the leftwingnut blog and came away with a nauseating felling. Those people on the left are crying for a boycott of Rush and even KNCO. Here is why Ben Emery just doesn’t get why he was rejected overwhelmingly by the people of the Congressional district. But I see why, he is a true “double standard” liberal. He cries that Rush is so mean to Ms. Fluke and should not call her names. Here is how Emery, Ben, describes Rush.
    “Ben Emery, on March 4, 2012 at 10:10 pm said:
    I seriously doubt this will be the end of king limbaugh of the gop unless he wants it to be. He has had issues like this over and over again. Right wing radio is an echo chamber and a bubble. He is in his 60′s with a drug problem, erectile problem, hearing problem, lives on what I have heard described as a compound in FL where he broadcasts his show, and his last contract was for $400 million dollars. Ego and addiction to power/ money are the only things keeping this man in the game.”
    The liberal brain has got to be missing some DNA strands. I just can’t come up with a better answer to their hypocrisy.

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  36. Ben Emery Avatar

    Why is it in America we attack the person when they bring an issue to light that we are uncomfortable? This isn’t about Ms. Fluke sexual habits. This is where Rush made the mistake, he made it about Ms Fluke. What are the objections to preventative medicine for young women who aren’t ready to start a family? As Brad C pointed out the most cost effective avenue would be through preventative medicine. Its called personal responsibility.
    If we boil this down it seems to me like this is men trying to control reproductive rights of women once again. We are moving backwards in this country on so many fronts.

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  37. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    BenE, then practice what you preach you hypocrite.

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  38. Gregory Avatar

    “The policy we’re talking about is whether or not we will allow an employer to make decisions about her health care. HER HEALTH CARE, HER INSURANCE COMPANY, HER MONEY!”
    No, Ms. Fluke even now can choose the $3,000 a year contraceptive program over the 30 cent a day condom. Add it to her $60K a year law school bill.
    During my late first wife’s course of cancer treatments, we were once faced with the possibility that a somewhat experimental, off label use of a bleeding edge breast cancer chemotherapy against her ovarian cancer might not be covered. The insurer eventually OK’d it but in the end it wasn’t indicated by additional testing of her cancer cells (the estimated cost for a year of Herceptin in those days). Had she been a candidate, and the insurer not covered it, we’d have been on the hook for $60K. People make these decisions every day.
    Note to fantasylanders: if transportation is determined to be a fundamental right to be paid by your neighbors, you’ll be riding the bus, not being given the keys to your own BMW. Or Chevy Volt.

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  39. THEMIKEYMCD Avatar

    We practiced abstinence (I’ve a disdain for STD’s, child support, drama, ‘clingers’, etc associated with sleeping around) until marriage. Then, get this, we used sex to make babies.
    It isn’t PC to call a slut (male or female) a slut.
    Once again our nation discusses the color of the paint in the kitchen as the rest of the house burns to the ground. http://www.usdebtclock.org/

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  40. Paul Emery Avatar

    Todd
    Don’t blame the Libs for making his an issue. On this blog George was the one who presented the topic.

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  41. Todd Juvinall Avatar

    No PaulE, this was a diversion tactic by the liberals and they plastered it all over. Then they comment endlessly to overwhelm the news and try to convince America this is the issue. No, it was a political stunt and thank goodness the R’s remembered the Clinton strategy about an issue being released on a weekend. So PaulE, what would you call or how would you describe a person, male or female, who claims they spend 3 grand a ears on contraceptives?

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  42. George Rebane Avatar

    PaulE 710am – The only thing I admit to is the words I have written, and possibly the assessment that you continue to be, let’s say, an inexact reader (else I would have to accuse you of baiting me, which I’m sure you don’t do).
    Nowhere have I commented on or judged Ms Fluke’s character. For all I know, her sexual habits, whatever they may be, are the norm for her culture.
    And yes Paul, absent commenting on her character, I and almost every other person in the world is free to and does comment, decide, and act on the basis of what they consider to be reliable secondary information sources. The world would come to a grinding stop if everyone demanded to have access to original sources in their prelude. Now that really may be news to some people, and here I do believe that you take a gratuitous slap at me with your characterization of my commentary as “disgusting” and “lowering …”.
    But for the record, yes I did bring this topic up to discuss what I don’t see as getting proper exposure – the ramifications of expanding entitlements. The function Ms Fluke seeks can be procured and/or provided at a pittance to the costs she cites. That is the topic that no one on the left (sadly, including MichaelA) wants to touch.

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  43. Ben Emery Avatar

    Lets look at the situation.
    Darrell Issa was chair of a committee discussing the contraception policies of the affordable care act. Rep Issa declined to allow any women to speak on the issue. So much so the female democratic representatives walked out on the hearing. He claimed that this was about religious freedom not about contraception. The democratic party decided to hold a separate forum on the issue to allow some of those most directly affected by the new legislation to appear and give their statements, Ms Fluke was one.
    Rush jumped on this and attacked Ms Fluke for being a slut. What on earth does this have to do with Ms Fluke? She is by no means the only woman in America using birth control. Here is some information about “The Pill”.
    http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/birth-control-pill/WO00098

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  44. Gregory Avatar

    “What are the objections to preventative medicine for young women who aren’t ready to start a family?”
    Ben, at 30, Fluke is already past her reproductive prime, and there are no objections to her getting and using the contraceptives of her choice. Only objections are to the Dem’s insistence that whatever a woman wants, insurance companies should pay for, with no copays or limits.
    This sounds to me like more of the same, insurance company straitjackets designed to make private insurance so expensive that the “public option” looks good.

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  45. Gregory Avatar

    Ben, if Ms. Fluke’s is the sort of testimoany that Issa barred from the congressional committee, kudos to Issa.
    It isn’t about contraception. It is about who pays, and the Democrats presided over the demise of individual health insurance policies from WWII onward by allowing before tax dollars to pay for employee policies while individual policies are paid by after tax, including SS and Mediscare, dollars.

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  46. George Rebane Avatar

    Gentlemen – and specifically those of you on the left, e.g. BenE’s 809am and 919am – for the umpteenth time the issue of this post on Ms Fluke is the expansion of entitlements, this time through the door of state provided/subsidized/mandated supply of prophylactics to prevent unwanted births. The fact that Fluke framed the argument in terms of the most pricy kind of prophylaxis, her friend’s poverty, and a matter “women’s health” draws her into this discussion as a leftwing political activist with a long standing agenda.
    That this woman enrolled in a Jesuit university with a well-known policy on ‘birth control’ (I despise that term) is itself an expose of the next battle the socialist secular humanists want to wage against religion in America. The connection to Obama’s re-election campaign here is not coincidental. The rest – as witnessed here – is diversion.

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  47. John Galt Avatar

    Michael 7:39am
    How do you decide when someone is telling the Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing but the Truth?
    Is it how they look, or how they vote?, or is it that if they speak on something you support, you believe them, if you don’t support it, then you don’t believe it.
    It would be nice if everyone spoke the truth in their testimony, but that doesn’t happen much in Washington. And for me, Fluke’s testimony contains some dubious information….but I guess it all depends on what your definition of “is” is.
    I personally don’t believe insurance should be covering routine needs–for men or for women. And clearly at Georgetown–contraception is a VERY routine need.
    –John Galt

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  48. Michael Anderson Avatar

    Gregory wrote: “Note to fantasylanders: if transportation is determined to be a fundamental right to be paid by your neighbors, you’ll be riding the bus, not being given the keys to your own BMW. Or Chevy Volt.”
    And George wrote as well: “The function Ms Fluke seeks can be procured and/or provided at a pittance to the costs she cites. That is the topic that no one on the left (sadly, including MichaelA) wants to touch.”
    This is not about the cost of birth control pills at Georgetown. I agree that $3K is a ridiculous and unnecessary amount of money for this health care line item. I also agree that the basic level of health care service can be analogized as a bus ride; once everyone has access to the bus, they are free to upgrade to a BMW on their own dime, any time that they choose.
    George then wrote: “The fact that Fluke framed the argument in terms of the most pricy kind of prophylaxis, her friend’s poverty, and a matter “women’s health” draws her into this discussion as a leftwing political activist with a long standing agenda.”
    George, I don’t want to talk about Sandra Fluke. She is basically irrelevant. I want to talk about whether a private employer has the right to build a whites-only lunch counter in his privately-owned building. I want to talk about why you think a private employer has the right to tell a medical insurance company who/what/when/how they can fund aspects of the delivery of health care between a doctor and her patient.
    This is about freedom and liberty. As a lower-case libertarian, I am offended by employers who think they have the right to tell me how to live. They’re my boss, not my master. For goodness sakes, it’s as if you guys were promoting slavery!

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  49. Ben Emery Avatar

    Greg,
    What gives you any say when Ms Fluke is prime to start a family? The empowerment or suppression of women is the issue here and it scares many who fear all that challenges their belief of entitled power. This is true with the church, government, business, and society in general. I do not believe in second class human beings.

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