115 responses to “America’s Technical Talent Slide vs TechForum”

1. 

   Michael Anderson

   20 February 2012

   Silly Typepad won’t shake a previous browser login.
   I meant for my comment to post under this account.
   “Pelline is a self promoter who would very likely not be even handed about what businesses and events would be featured.”
   My understanding of the gig is that it’s about maintaining the site, while the content comes from the various chambers. I took a quick peek at gonevadacounty-dot-com and that’s sure what it looks like.
   I defer to Ted Owens on this: http://www.knco.com/Local/2842771-County-Awards-125-Economic-Development.html

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2. 

   Gregory

   20 February 2012

   I took a quick peek at gonevadacounty, and whoever wrote the ‘how to get here’ section should have just written “If you aren’t driving here, we don’t have a clue how to help”.
   http://gonevadacounty.com/getting-here/
   They were oblivious to the Auburn Amtrak station, connecting bus service to Grass Valley and the local bus line, have two different and incorrect names for the one airport that serves Grass Valley and Nevada City, and lack any links for anyone who might be interested in the Grass Valley Airport (aka Nevada County Air Park) or Truckee-Tahoe Airport.

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3. 

   Michael Anderson

   20 February 2012

   Yeah, that’s pretty lame. I just checked the Nevada County/Grass Valley Chamber of Commerce website and they have almost the same incorrect information: http://www.grassvalleychamber.com/transportation.aspx

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4. 

   Russell Steele

   20 February 2012

   The gograssvalley.com tourism site does not even have any directions on how to get here at all. I guess they assume that everyone know were Grass Valley is.

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5. 

   Gregory

   20 February 2012

   “My understanding of the gig is that it’s about maintaining the site, while the content comes from the various chambers.”
   Yes, edits must be made. Events get added and dropped. Dead links need to be fixed. Do you really think the Pelline’s can and will be even handed with such things?
   Just checking, it’s obvious the Pellines know about the SESF fundraiser, but it isn’t listed in the events calendar. Did no one try to enter it, or did the Pelline’s block it? Seeing it wasn’t listed, did either Pelline think to add it in? If they didn’t add it in, do they make sure their own pet events get entered while letting the ones they would rather fail just not get the same help?
   Then there’s another possibility for conflict… do FoodWineArt customers get preferential treatment?

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6. 

   billy T

   20 February 2012

   Ok, back to original thread. My apologies dear posters for showing my darker side and going off track. Since this article was published the lad has indeed gone back to the drawing board and improved his design. Drivng the pros crazy, lol http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-20095212-1/13-year-olds-solar-project-generates-heat-if-not-light/

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7. 

   Gregory

   20 February 2012

   Now, back to Pelline’s view of fairness, and think that because the usual suspects didn’t salute when Dr. Judith Kildow (who arranged the CARB chief Mary Nichols’ local one sided bluster) ran her proposal up the county flagpole, the county shouldn’t sponsor the SESF.
   Let’s look again at a Pelline science reference… From Dr. Kildow’s CV:
   Grinnell College, AB, major, Political Science, 1964
   The Fletcher School, Tufts University, M.A.1965; M.A. Law and Diplomacy, 1966;
   Ph.D. International Relations and Science Policy, 1972
   No science there to be seen. At all.
   And according to the NY Times, Mary Nichol’s degrees are a BA in Russian Lit from Cornell and a JD from Yale Law. No science there, either.
   As usual, Pelline gets his science from politically correct sources that have no clue themselves.

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8. 

   Michael Anderson

   20 February 2012

   Russ or George should add the TechForum event here–
   http://gonevadacounty.com/events/add-an-event/

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9. 

   Russell Steele

   20 February 2012

   I have been tracking the progress of the Nevada County and Grass Valley Tourism sites HERE. The stats are due for a monthly updated around the 26th of Feb. So far both sites have been falling in the ranking with 1.0 being the best and 1.0 trillion being the worst. The number of links to the sites is growing, but traffic is miserable. The latest site analytics for gonevadacounty show 474 visitors in December, which is the last month the data is available. That is down 478 visitors from November . Grass Valley does not even have enough visitors to trip the counter. This is the message I get for gograssvalley. The site may have little traffic or we may not have a statistically relevant sample to project the traffic with.
   Grass Valley and Nevada County have spend over $200,000 on web sites to attract tourist and now one is coming to the web sites. Why? Some one should be asking?

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10. 

    Russell Steele

    20 February 2012

    Michael,
    I will give it a try, next time, but I think we are now sold out. May one of two seats left.

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11. 

    Barry Pruett

    20 February 2012

    Gregory: You have made the most astute observation yet posted here. Judith Kildow speaking on AGW with absolutely no formal science education?! As far as Mary Nichols goes, I fail to see the obvious connection among Pushkin, Lomonosov, and AGW…I am missing something? Unbelieveable.
    Leads me to believe that the AGW speeches will be about politics and not science.

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12. 

    George Rebane

    20 February 2012

    MichaelA 517pm – My misunderstanding is that the prime taxpayer funded role of ‘gonevadacounty’ is to discover and post significant Nevada County events of interest that might engender interest in and possibly draw travel to our county. Apparently the website’s grand poo-bah has made no such connection, or feels that giving TechForum publicity would be inimical to other more important agendas now in play.
    But as RussS (521pm) states, “Why? Someone should be asking.” And since no one has, we can only conclude that, to those who allocate public funds, ‘gonevadacounty’ is in the hands of a trusted fire-and-forget government contractor needing no further supervision or monitoring. Russ has more to say about this on NC2012.
    http://2012nevadacounty.wordpress.com/2012/02/20/setting-the-record-straight/

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13. 

    Gregory

    21 February 2012

    Barry, I had dug out Kildow’s CV and posted on her science background back when Pelline & Friends were pushing her proposed lecture series. It’s nothing new. Pelline seems to agree with Ms. Haynes when it comes to Climate authority… a deep understanding of the science isn’t as important as coming to the same conclusion of the experts you want to believe in the first place. A Ph.D. in science policy built upon a foundation of no science training at all is not a recipe for understanding.
    Nothing succeeds like success. SESF hosting a great talk is a great start both for the scholarships and for SESF’s credibility in attracting good speakers in the future.

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14. 

    John Galt

    21 February 2012

    Gregory 0942: So true. Hosting speakers like Cisco’s VP for Innovation (Mr. Hutley) promises to be the start of many benefits for our County–and its youth.
    It’s a remarkable feat to bring him to this County. I’m sure there’s a great story behind it.
    –Johh Galt.

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15. 

    Douglas Keachie

    21 February 2012

    BTW, I checked an understand that the event is not sold out at 85, but close to sold out at 153, and that it is up to the meeting planner to have press or no press, and that can go up over and beyond the 160 limit for the room in the seating arrangment plan you have selected.

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16. 

    Gregory

    21 February 2012

    Thanks, George.

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17. 

    George Rebane

    21 February 2012

    DougK – I have offered no one a free lunch, and have no understanding of the logic by which you unite your photo with Pelline.

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18. 

    Douglas Keachie

    21 February 2012

    George Foster offered Pelline said lunch, Pelline turned it down due to a prior engagement, I offered to cover the event, George said “no,” pay the $25.” I assume you and he work for the same SES Foundation. The whole conversation is on Pelline’s blog, as if you weren’t aware.

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19. 

    George Rebane

    21 February 2012

    DougK 648pm – I hope that you’re sitting down, because it will shock the hell out of you to know that I fastidiously don’t read Pelline’s blog. However, to reinforce and confirm the wisdom of this policy, from time to time some correspondent sends me material from his site when they think it would be of interest or just to pique me. Nevertheless, it seems that I am fortunate to count Pelline as one of RR’s regular readers. From the material he gathers from here, I am happy to contribute to his readership.
    Re TechForum – I am not on the operations committee for that gathering, and monitor its progress only as a director of the foundation. However, I am very involved with our merit scholarship programs like TechTest.

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20. 

    Douglas Keachie

    21 February 2012

    George, you’ve made your position clear, by what you deleted, and what you’ve not deleted.
    Please keep in mind that technology was conceived of to benefit people, not to give those with technical backgrounds dominion over the rest of the population, by virtue of their supposedly “superior” knowledge. It seems to me that this attitude of mine is not shared by you and your friends here. In fact it almost seems to me as if you look forwards to your dingularity, and bowing down to you new electro/biological masters, in some strange perverse way.
    For a group that wants publicity for their cause, I’ll be very curious to see just how well you do, at this and future events. There could be a lot more at your site, in terms of exposing kids to the opportunities that are out there, but you plainly do not want any contributions from me, so you’ll just have to figure it out on your own.
    Good luck and Sayonara!

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21. 

    Douglas Keachie

    21 February 2012

    BTW, when and where will this important talk that we should all hear be posted as an MP#, or setup as an online streaming video? Or is that too far into the future for you to handle?

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22. 

    Russ Steele

    21 February 2012

    Douglas,
    You will have to contact NCTV to find out when the event will be broadcast. It will not be streamed.

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23. 

    Douglas Keachie

    21 February 2012

    Why would it not be streamed?

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24. 

    Douglas Keachie

    21 February 2012

    Or more accurately, archived in the “Video on Demand” section? Cable does not reach much of the county.

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25. 

    Gregory

    21 February 2012

    “Please keep in mind that technology was conceived of to benefit people, not to give those with technical backgrounds dominion over the rest of the population, by virtue of their supposedly “superior” knowledge.”
    The knowledge it takes to create technologies is there for almost anyone to acquire but it is neither instantaneous or easy. The TechTest is a good attempt at challenging some of the local kids who have been diligently gaining the intellectual capital that can lead to success in serious study of a math-based discipline.
    Currently, to get to a university on track, a kid should have a solid knowledge of elementary math, including competence with fractions and long division, by their middle school years. Algebra competence in the 8th grade, 9th at the latest. Geometry, Algebra II, Trig. Calculus if there’s time. Not to mention biology, chemistry and physics.
    Euclid told King Ptolemy there was no Royal Road to Geometry. Similarly, Charles Sanders Pierce wrote in the late 19th century that “There is no royal road to logic, and really valuable ideas can only be had at the price of close attention.”
    There’s no royal road to technological competence.

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26. 

    Douglas Keachie

    22 February 2012

    And being technologically competent does not make you royalty.

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27. 

    George Rebane

    22 February 2012

    But being technologically competent does expand considerably your spectrum of life’s choices. Some ideologies consider this unfair and seek to impose external means to equalize matters.

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28. 

    Douglas Keachie

    22 February 2012

    Being technologically competent is a far broader term than being mathematically competent, which is basically 95% of what the Tech Test tests.
    Technology encompasses much more than just being a slide rule/spreadsheet/calculator wiz who can do calculus and trig.
    I would bet that most systems administrators seldom need to do more than communicate with upper and lower echelons, read specs, watch traffic, and stay current on the latest attacks. Would you call them technologically incompetent?
    Inventors get patents all the time without higher math. I note in passing that one of your frequent commenters has ZERO (0) nada patents to his name, despite all the math he knows.
    Would Dirtmover be “technically incompetent?” Hell I could probably get more done in 1/2 hour with a backhoe than you and said non inventing mathematically wiz kid can. Yup, there is technical competence, and there is mathematical competence, and while their is overlap, your focus with the “Tech” Test seems rather limited, to the view screen of a calculator.
    How fast can you get a good, clear screenshot of a small portion of your cell phone up to tech support? Can you do it in under 3 minutes? I can. I guess I must be more technically competent than you, lordy, lordy… and no math involved, just very high technical competence in photography.
    

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29. 

    Gregory

    22 February 2012

    Being technologically competent means what it says. If you lack it, you’re incompetent in that sphere, and there is no substitute for the effort needed to learn the stuff.
    Let’s consider an old technology at three different levels:
    1) Designing the Bus
    2) Making the Bus
    3) Driving the Bus
    Becoming expert at driving the bus is a whole lot easier than learning how to make the bus, and while just about anyone who can design the bus can become expert at driving one, just about no one off the street would ever figure out how to design one.
    Congratulations, Doug. You’re an expert technology driver, and can paste JPEGs with the best of them. Are you familiar with the discrete cosign transform they are based on, or the reason DCT are used rather than the Fourier or Fast Fourier Transforms the DCT is based upon? Do you have a clue as to how the compressions are actually performed after the DCT is made?
    Keach, there is an important patent with my name on it as an inventor, and there’s another basic digital video patent that should have my name on it but shenanigans at a French company screwed me out of that one. I also got a nice $5K bonus from Cisco when my idea for Packet Relay across Telco Networks (a VoIP gateway discovery scheme) was put into the company patent queue, but I left to be a full time dad a year after my wife died of cancer and without me there, the submission stalled. Would have been nice to have that one, mostly for the honor; a nice extra chunk of cash, small was compared to salary and options. Tiny compared to the cost of 18 months of cancer treatments.
    Did higher math figure into the above patents? Yes, in all of them, either directly or indirectly. TechTest is intellectually valid for those high school students who are considering a course of study that requires a high level of math and physical science competence.

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30. 

    Gregory

    22 February 2012

    That’s cosine, thanks for not noticing.

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31. 

    George Rebane

    22 February 2012

    DougK 1120am – don’t really know what that little defensive diatribe was all about. Mathematics is the common language of all modern technology and today has dominated formerly mathematics-light fields like biology and anthropology. Mathematics (and its sisters of logic, algorithmics, programming, data handling, …) is also the most important and common tool in the toolset for critical thinking, which for expanding the frontiers of knowledge is a necessity. 95% of all my education has turned out to be applied mathematics; without it I could practice no single part of the system sciences. Exceptions to mathematical proficiency for achievement in all fields of science and engineering are anecdotal.

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32. 

    Gregory

    22 February 2012

    “But being technologically competent does expand considerably your spectrum of life’s choices. Some ideologies consider this unfair and seek to impose external means to equalize matters.”
    George, it goes deeper than that; they think all are equal. Among K-12 teachers and administrators there is a profound misunderstanding as to the nature of the intellectual capital that is needed to be competent in the sphere of math, science and engineering. Any student reasonably competent in Algebra and language can go to college and succeed in most every course of study. However, math, physics, chemistry, engineering are not among them. Neither are the fine arts and music, which all also require a high level of ability and acquired skill from years of individual study and commitment. If you aren’t really ready for a rigorous treatment of the calculus of one variable, or reasonably competent at playing some instrument or making sketches, there are majors you won’t be declaring unless Mom and Dad can write checks for a few more years than they hoped and can trust you’ll catch up to your peers who were more focused in K-12.
    Ask Molecular and Cellular Biology majors, the usual pre-Med choice, what chemistry they took… the hard core chem that chem, physics and engineering majors took, or the easy one that is for biology majors who really don’t need to know as much? Did they take the general Physics class, or the Physics for scientists that chem, physics and engineering majors take?
    The teachers and admin at the GVSD especially were of like minds that the smart kids will succeed no matter what. They’ll pass their 8th grade algebra test that is pretty much required before you graduate from high school, and they’ll be able to enroll in a community college. SUCCESS! But at a possibly a great loss to themselves and humanity as they will never have the choices they could have had with a more competent K-12 system that was there for them as much as it was for the kid who barely graduated.

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33. 

    Douglas Keachie

    22 February 2012

    Only too well aware of all the different algorithms used by the zillion video codecs, including the non standard ones used by my highly acclaimed but non standard Panasonic HD video camera. May not be able to do the the math, but very well aware of the hassles, like when Compuserve limited GIF’s and so many versions of TIFF’s and jpegs showed up that nothing worked right.
    As for mere operators, love to see the first designer or builder who had never been in a cockpit before get an F-16 off the ground and live to tell the tale.
    George, you totally miss the fact that a great many people are considered technically competent by the average Joe, and they are considered “technically competent,” without knowing anything of higher math. The systems administrator, which is, as you know full well, is a totally different beastie than a systems analyst, is generally considered to be “technically competent.” There are many other examples. If you wish to claim special competence for math brilliant technically competent, great, but don’t feel you have the right to hijack the term out of the common parlance and proclaim it all your very own.
    For example, in the following manual for lifting, many, other than trained engineers, including riggers and divers, can make a lift plan, but most likely not high risk ones:
    http://www.imca-int.com/documents/core/sel/docs/IMCASEL019.pdf
    Life experience counts, and are not always covered by pieces of paper from institutions.

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34. 

    Douglas Keachie

    22 February 2012

    Congrats to you Greg, on your patents. Use search terms Gregory Goodknight US patent and got Boy Scout Troop information. This is the first I’ve known of your actual subset of engineering, which is a many splendored thing.

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35. 

    Douglas Keachie

    22 February 2012

    The Tech Test is perfectly valid as a predictor of success, but if the goal is to produce afr more Johnnys who can pass it, you need to stat much younger. See here for a more detailed look at the topic: http://farstars.blogspot.com/2012/02/sierra-economic-and-science-foundation.html

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36. 

    Douglas Keachie

    22 February 2012

    I’m beginning to wonder about this particular keyboard. In any event, if you want to have separate smaller classes for math intensive students, you will need to fund such classrooms. Otherwise you can send your kids to private schools, or move to an area where you know the publics are top notch. It was no accident where we moved when we moved into San Francisco proper. The Alamo to Presidio to Lowell route was as plain as the nose on your face, if you bothered to look.
    “If you only pay for and use inferior materials, you get inferior demons.”
    ~ Eric Frank Russell ~ (approximately)

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37. 

    Gregory

    22 February 2012

    Keachie, you’re still here? Thanks for mentioning those search terms, I just found out my Cisco patent submission made in 2001 resulted in a patent being issued in 2010.
    http://www.google.com/patents/US7808981
    Got to add that to my resume.

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38. 

    Gregory

    22 February 2012

    “May not be able to do the the math, but very well aware of the hassles, like when Compuserve limited GIF’s and so many versions of TIFF’s and jpegs showed up that nothing worked right.”
    Yes, that’s a lot like the problems bus drivers shifting different trannies.
    The math is the technology.

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39. 

    George Rebane

    22 February 2012

    Gregory 246pm – “The math is the technology.” That is spot on, but almost impossible to communicate to a math-free mind.

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40. 

    Douglas Keachie

    22 February 2012

    You need to qualify “math free mind.” Otherwise you’d be up for libel, if you are applying that broad term to me, as it might just seem to the average outsider to this forum. “Calculus not attempted” would be accurate, “Calculus incapable” would not.
    Math is not the “ONLY” technology capable of solving problems. despite some very expensive software developed to solve just this sort of problem below, look where the answer came from:
    For example:
    “Gamers have assisted scientists in solving a molecular puzzle related to a protein-cutting enzyme found in an AIDS-like virus found in rhesus monkeys. FoldIt is a collaborative online game established in 2008 with over 260,000 registered users. “The game is designed so that players can manipulate virtual molecular structures that look like multicolored, curled-up Tinkertoy sets. The virtual molecules follow the same chemical rules that are obeyed by real molecules. When someone playing the game comes up with a more elegant structure that reflects a lower energy state for the molecule, his or her score goes up. If the structure requires more energy to maintain, or if it doesn’t reflect real-life chemistry, then the score is lower.”
    The monkey-virus enzyme was uploaded to FoldIt in the hope that gamers would be able to assist scientists. It was solved within ten days.
    This kind of game demonstrates the potential of crowd sourcing solutions through the gaming community. Although it may have been some serious puzzle fans who solved this molecular puzzle its possible that casual gamers can also contribute. The challenge is for designers and programmers to develop games that (either explicitly or implicitly) solve real world problems by tapping into the vast and growing resource of casual gamers.”

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41. 

    Douglas Keachie

    22 February 2012

    Glad to be of help, Greg 2:22 😉

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42. 

    George Rebane

    22 February 2012

    DougK 313pm – You make the point that Greg and I are trying to communicate here. It is the math-savvy game designers understanding the stochastics of crowd-sourced cognitive processes who can design such ‘games’ that solve protein folding/cutting problems without the individuals playing the game having any capabilities whatsoever in technology (math specifically) the way it is most broadly understood. For a deeper insight into what I’m referring, an entertaining and enlightening tutorial would be familiarization with the Anthill in Hofstadter’s ‘Godel, Escher, Bach’.
    Please explain your reference to my being “up for libel”; I hope it’s not as threatening as it sounds.

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43. 

    Douglas Keachie

    22 February 2012

    Having attended virtually every week long Game Developers Conference since 1993, I am more than just slightly aware of the mathematical underpinning of most video games. As a Conference Associate, I have been assigned to monitor and thus have sat in on many. many, roundtables in which the math you speak of was more than evident. You still need the thousands of individuals for this work. The non calculus and higher math trained folks still have a reason to live.
    What’s more, having a great idea, and getting it published, is not the whole story. You need money, and thank God for EcoWhacko Kevin Costner, who probably knows no more math than I do.
    The water-cleaning centrifuges sold by movie star Kevin Costner to BP for oil spill clean-up testing have received a thumbs-up from at least one scientist — its inventor.
    “A fleet of these could make a significant impact,” says Dave Meikrantz of the Energy Department’s Idaho National Laboratory, who patented the devices with INL in 1990, and later sold the rights to Costner’s company in 1993. “It is most gratifying to make a technical contribution during the past decades that can assist today in a major environmental incident in the Gulf of Mexico.”
    Life is funny at times, try this slice:
    “Spending his teenage years in various parts of California as his father’s career progressed,[3] Costner has described this as a period when he “lost a lot of confidence”, having to make new friends often.[3] Costner lived in Orange County, then in Visalia (Tulare County), attending Mt. Whitney High School, and then back to Ventura, graduating from Buena High School in 1973. He went on to earn a B.A. in marketing and finance from California State University, Fullerton, in 1978.[3]
    [edit] Post-graduation
    Costner became interested in acting while in his last year of college,[3] and on graduation married Cindy Silva. The couple honeymooned in Puerto Vallarta and on the return plane journey had a chance encounter with actor and fellow passenger Richard Burton, who had purchased all the seats around him for solitude. Burton agreed to speak to Costner after he finished his book. Costner, who had been taking acting classes, but had not told his wife about his desire to be an actor, watched Burton closely and approached when Burton gestured. Costner told Burton that he would prefer that his life was not filled with the type of drama that had followed Burton and asked if he would have to tolerate that if he became an actor. Burton replied, “You have green eyes. I have green eyes. I think you’ll be fine.” After landing, Burton’s limousine pulled up to the curb where Costner and Cindy were waiting for a taxi, where Burton wished Costner luck. Costner would never see Burton again, but credits Burton with partially contributing to his career.[1][9]”

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44. 

    Gregory

    22 February 2012

    Keach, remind me, what was your answer to the question, “what is 1 3/4 divided by 1/2”? Calculus isn’t the end, it’s just the beginning. First semester of your Freshman year.
    “Math is not the “ONLY” technology capable of solving problems.”
    No one here has ever claimed that. However, it is the glue that holds all of science and engineering together, and the TechTest is a fine way to challenge local students who don’t get enough challenges or recognition while they’re here.
    BTW, special programs are not needed to get kids to that level. Just competent elementary math teachers who are truly facile with algebra (sadly, most are not) and expect their kids to master things like all the usual manipulations of fractions and things like long division, and teachers of algebra and beyond who have at least the equivalent of a real minor in Math.
    Even at my crappy east of LA high school, every year more students went to schools like CalTech, MIT, Stanford and the UC’s than NU and BR high schools manage together.
    Bennett-Kew, a LAUSD school in Inglewood (aka IngleWatts in crude circles), mostly Latino (many English Language learners) and the balance Black, virtually all on free lunches and on the same budget of all of the LAUSD, outperforms the Grass Valley schools with an API of something like 822. It just takes a principal that expects results and a teacher corps that likes it that way. Of course, B-K is a 10th decile school, and the main GVSD schools are down in the lowest two deciles. Some brown children get great starts, some white kids get shafted.

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45. 

    Gregory

    22 February 2012

    “The systems administrator, which is, as you know full well, is a totally different beastie than a systems analyst, is generally considered to be “technically competent.”
    Not in the sense we mean.
    In tech, a sysadmin is a technician. They look for things. Things they need. Things to make them go. In effect, one step above the bus driver. They can fix the thing, they can get it back on the road. Find the right bolts to fasten it all together. A facet of the manufacturing role. Good ones can even fill some engineering slots, but not many.
    Oh, and a college friend of mine has a love letter Kevin Costner wrote her in junior high, while living somewhere around Ventura. She won’t show it to anyone but does like having it 😉 She majored in math at Mudd, and quite capable of the sort of work Costner bought with his acting pay. Now, note, I didn’t have to paste anything in from Wikipedia for that. Why not stop padding your posts with paragraph after paragraph you didn’t and couldn’t write yourself, or better yet, go back to Jeff’s like you recently promised?

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46. 

    Douglas Keachie

    22 February 2012

    By any chance did your crappy east of la school include students from the families of the students and faculties of the Claremont Colleges and Cal Tech, which are in the same general vicinity? How is it that no home schoolers or private school grads are showing up as winners in the Tech Tests? Parents couldn’t handle the last mile?
    Would being in charge of a Novell 3.11 system for over 110 computers qualify one as a sysadmin, especially when you had to do a fair amount of plenum installation by yourself after hours, and wander the school fixing downed computers (they all had easily accessible floppy drives, in fact that’s what they were booting from) and in your unpaid for, beyond teaching a full load day? See, no need here for Wiki, that’s right out of my own back pages. About 6 hours of help initially from a Pac Bell tech, and then nothing from nobody, school would not even pay for support from Novell via phone line or online, or even any manuals. I found out later that downtown IT had grabbed those as the materials made their way to Lowell. Had to do it, if I wanted my own lab up, and went through two major equipment upgrades, which I designed and Zvonko Fazarinc, of H/p, signed off on. Damn, without even the starter calculus, Keachie just might be a techie.

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47. 

    Douglas Keachie

    22 February 2012

    “Not in the sense we mean.”
    You do not get to re-define the English language. As I pointed out once already here, common usage determines the term’s meaning. Claiming you cannot be a “techie” without completing a “rigorous” college engineering or physics or math major is plain nonsense. Being “technically competent” is very possible without the higher math. Being higher mathematically competent gets its own special label, usually accompanied by a college degree and a license. I have never made a claim to have either, in an engineering field. Use your English as you do your numbers. Precisely. And don’t claim turf you don’t own, even if those working there have jobs that would not exist without someone somewhere having done the math. Do you do all your own books, does the SESFoundation? Or do they turn the job over to financially mathematically talented person called an accountant, to make sure they are done right? Most H&R Block assistants have no clue, they just plug in the numbers, but their skill lies in drawing the correct set of numbers from their clients. They are “technically competent,” by most peoples’ standards.

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48. 

    Gregory

    22 February 2012

    Nope, Keach, Montebello was not a collegiate bedroom community. Low riders on Whittier Blvd. The rich kid in my class was rolling in a dump truck fortune, an Armenian-American hegemony. It’s the same high school that was an internet sensation a few years ago when a mob came on campus on Cinco de Mayo, took over and raised the Mexican flag.
    No, your computer operations experience means little technological competence to a competent engineer or scientist. Useful office help.

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49. 

    Gregory

    22 February 2012

    “You do not get to re-define the English language. As I pointed out once already here, common usage determines the term’s meaning.”
    The common usage of “musically talented” is different for a church choir than it is for the New York Phil or any other professional symphony. That’s just the way it is.
    You don’t have a clue, Keach, and I never said a college education was a required. It isn’t you lack of any formal schooling that’s the problem, it’s what you don’t know and can’t imagine.

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50. 

    Gregory

    22 February 2012

    “Please explain your reference to my being “up for libel”; I hope it’s not as threatening as it sounds.”
    George, it was meant to be threatening, but there’s no bite behind the bark.

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