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George Rebane

The 27jan12 WSJ publishes a major piece ‘No Need to Panic About Global Warming’ signed by sixteen science and technology heavyweights.  From my perspective as a systems scientist, I long ago joined the once lonely voices that pointed out that the climate change alarmists (especially of the anthropogenic global warming stripe) were intellectually naked shills with a pernicious political agenda.

Led by internationally recognized serious science commentators (links on right) like Anthony Watts, and locally by Russ Steele, the voices of reason and scientific accuracy have been growing and becoming more prominent over the last years.  But the political steamroller has yet to show significant slowing.  AGW is now a recognized and much applied tool of the political Left which uses it at every turn to remove individual liberties and shackle economies.

The authors of the cited piece point out the eerie similarities of how politicized science today recalls the days of church proscribed scientific enquiry and communist mandated politically correct sciences of (Lysenko, et.al.) of the USSR during the first half of the 20th century.  We are there again with claimed “incontrovertible evidence” that AGW exists.  Science contains no incontrovertible evidence, and once ‘evidence’ is so ascribed, it exits the halls of reasonable enquiry and science and enters the temples of religion.

The piece concludes –

A recent study of a wide variety of policy options by Yale economist William Nordhaus showed that nearly the highest benefit-to-cost ratio is achieved for a policy that allows 50 more years of economic growth unimpeded by greenhouse gas controls. This would be especially beneficial to the less-developed parts of the world that would like to share some of the same advantages of material well-being, health and life expectancy that the fully developed parts of the world enjoy now. Many other policy responses would have a negative return on investment. And it is likely that more CO2 and the modest warming that may come with it will be an overall benefit to the planet.

If elected officials feel compelled to "do something" about climate, we recommend supporting the excellent scientists who are increasing our understanding of climate with well-designed instruments on satellites, in the oceans and on land, and in the analysis of observational data. The better we understand climate, the better we can cope with its ever-changing nature, which has complicated human life throughout history. However, much of the huge private and government investment in climate is badly in need of critical review.

Every candidate should support rational measures to protect and improve our environment, but it makes no sense at all to back expensive programs that divert resources from real needs and are based on alarming but untenable claims of "incontrovertible" evidence.

Posted in , , , ,

125 responses to “From Lysenko Loonies to Climate Change Clowns”

  1. Gregory Avatar

    It’s just a medical certificate, Keach. You fogged a mirror.

    Like

  2. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    Tell it to a judge, Greg. It is a certificate, issued by the FAA, and it says, Student Pilot Certificate, right at the top. You won’t win this one, no matter how hard you try, and you might not be able to fog a mirror, if you take it that seriously. Time for you to take your blood pressure meds, before you totally lose it.

    Like

  3. Gregory Avatar

    And the only thing you did to get it is submit to a medical exam. Including a DRE at no extra charge.
    What a putz.

    Like

  4. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    You are the one making the arguments that all of this is a Big Deal. More along the lines of the classic t-shirt, “If you ain’t a pilot, you ain’t S___” and one more incident of the constant oneupsmanship that so dominates your life, and apparently at your own choosing.

    Like

  5. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    At least you are finally beginning to admit that I have a student pilot certificate that qualifies under the all-encompassing phrase “any pilot certificate,” by admitting that all I had to do was: “And the only thing you did to get it is submit to a medical exam.” “It” is is important word here. Yes, I have “it,” I’ve had “it” since 1969, and it IS a student pilots license, which meets your condition of “any.”
    Do you get “IT” now?
    Or do you still want to fork over $100, or go the lawyers fees route?
    You lost, either way.

    Like

  6. Gregory Avatar

    Keach, my original statement was from the FAA records and was a true statement. The FAA has no record of ever issuing you a pilot certificate, because they never did. If you never convinced a certified flight instructor you were ready to fly solo, you never even got the student/medical endorsed to allow you to fly even just around the block. You didn’t join the club. It’s OK, lots of people take a few lessons and decide it isn’t for them. I dated one woman who went so far as to get her Private but decided her own attention to detail wasn’t enough to be safe. Others decide to quit after soloing, a major milestone that proves something concrete; and no pilot forgets that day. In short, it’s not an easy thing to do. Just the private knowledge/written exam is said to represent 1,400 facts you are expected to remember and make sense of.
    You fogged the mirror. Congrats to you, and to your brother who managed a commercial glider certificate and glider instructor certificate, a difficult task.
    You may also have forgotten the $100 bet was something you dreamed up and I never agreed to. Please feel free to take your $100 to your MD to be used at your next DRE.

    Like

  7. Gregory Avatar

    “it IS a student pilots [sic] license”
    No, it is not. In fact, there’s no such thing as a pilot’s “license” in the USA.
    Here’s the image in the wiki
    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/61/Medcirc.PNG/250px-Medcirc.PNG
    Medical certificate.

    Like

  8. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    AND Student Pilot Certificate, End of story. But you are still not satisfied. I sense that. You see Greg, there was something even one so careful as you hadn’t even counted upon. I know you DO so trust the government, your rock of ages, to be eternal and unchanging, but that God has indeed pushed the funny buzzer here and CHANGED the FORM since I got mine back in 1969. So while I will have to kiss my dreams of an extra “C” note good bye, here are the images, front and back, in which the verbiage is very clear, it is BOTH a medical certificate and a student pilots certificate.
    You lose.
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/keachie/
    BTW after a while this link will intentional bury these particular images in the back pages.

    Like

  9. Gregory Avatar

    There’s been no material changes, Keach, virtually the same as the wiki image. As is the usual case, you’re missing the forest for the trees.
    It’s a medical certificate, issued by an MD. And, as I suspected, it was never endorsed by a CFI so you never used it.

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  10. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    I never used it to solo. I never used it to make a cross country trip. I did use it to take a couple of lessons. As I pointed out way back when, as soon as I finished my degree, I got a professional job. I was at Flightways all of three months. I actually do also have a flight log book, but it is in much deeper storage, but next time I see it, I’ll post a page or two up here as well.
    As of 5:11 pm, 5 people have looked at the enlarged frontside, and four have looked at the enlarged backside, and both sides make a real point of saying it is both a medical certificate AND a student pilot certificate. I can greatly enlarge those portions of the images, if you still aren’t able to read them. You should have no trouble if you click through to find the original image.

    Like

  11. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    I suspect the FAA has rather harsh rules for those who take up people as students without having the medical/student pilot certificate. After alll, I could go to any doctor and get a letter that says I’m fit as a fiddle and then try to coax some instructor to take me up and teach me, but that instructor would have to be pretty stupid to do so, risking his own certificate for a lousy lesson fee.

    Like

  12. Gregory Avatar

    No, Keach. You didn’t use it for any lessons, which were all under the authority of the instructor’s certificates. You can take lessons for years without a combo cert, and many people do. In fact, a kid under 16 can’t even be issued any medical certificate and postpone soloing until they’re 16, sometimes ending with a visit to a friendly medical examiner just before they’re 16 and getting a cert that is specific that it is not valid until their birthday, and then, after their CFI signs it, they solo on their 16th bday.
    It’s ONLY needed for you to solo, and yours was never endorsed. The only thing it certifies was your medical status one day in the ’60’s, as opposed to your brothers, who was (and may still be) qualified to teach others to fly, at least on the ground.
    It does just gall you, doesn’t it? That’s the reason for all those derisive “flyboy” remarks you’ve sent my way and denigrations of my education. Interesting you’ve not fessed up to this before, I suppose just another reason you’ve transferred your hostility towards me when your bro isn’t handy. Private college, scientific degree much harder to get than Anthropology (a classic BA for a weak or unmotivated student), and an aviator to boot. No wonder I got under your skin, I was just everything you resented in one package.
    I’ll have to chat with your brother one of these days, I suspect we’d get along pretty well.

    Like

  13. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    The last line made me laugh the loudest!
    But the others were pretty good too.
    So an instructor is welcome to take up students and give them lessons without either of these certificates, by just saying, “you’re covered under mine?” News to me and Flightways. Doug Shouf (sp?) and Bob Short were adamant that I have it, just to taxi planes around on the ground, with no instructor on board, but being nominally watched by at least one of the instructors. As usual, you are really trying too hard to denigrate any moves I made,in or out of aviation, and in doing so, turn the spotlight back on yourself, in a blaze of private college glory, and UC System envy. By sheer numbers, I’ll bet you’ve been turned down for many a job, where a UC grad was hired. What is it you do, really, legacy systems repair and updates?

    Like

  14. Gregory Avatar

    Straight from the FAA, Keachie:
    “When do I need a student pilot certificate?
    Before you can fly solo. You don’t need a student pilot certificate to take flying lessons.”
    http://www.faa.gov/pilots/become/student_cert/
    “You don’t need a student pilot certificate to take flying lessons.”
    Is that clear enough for you? You’re such a stubborn idiot, one can never be sure. That flight school was making up their own rules which they are allowed to do, but it wasn’t the FAA forcing them.

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  15. Gregory Avatar

    Sorry, Keach, but UCLA was my backup school and their Physics department issued me an early admission, as did Mudd, another backup school. No envy there. Had no interest in Berkeley. Fortunately, my kid chose Cal as his backup school from Stanford and the Regent’s and Chancellor’s Scholar deal was very sweet.

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  16. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    But Greg, as determined as you are to put as many miles between you and your statement:
    “Something else, too, thanks for the clue, Keach. You claim to have at least at one time had an FAA medical certificate, but apparently never any pilot certificate or you’d show up in the FAA database.”,
    I am determined to keep it in play
    And I called you out as wrong on that, because you used the word “ANY” instead of the article “a.” You are so ticked off that you screwed up, and that I DO have a certificate that says “student pilot certificate” (that makes your statement untrue) that you driving like a drunken tricyclist on Newtown Road..
    You also say I never “used” it. This is I guess tantamount to saying it didn’t/doesn’t exist. Whether I “used” it or not, or “how” I used it, is immaterial to the argument here. Not only was it a requirement of my employment back in 1969, I’ve used it even today, to have lots of fun with you. We had no medical, and so it took about 3 day’s salary to pay for a 20 minute appointment with a doctor the FAA had certified to issue Medical and Student Pilot Certificate. You remember things like that. How far into the ground are you going to corkscrew with this topic? Your statement above is patently false, and I will be more than happy to train you up to that, if you insist on trying to weasel away from your mistake.

    Like

  17. Gregory Avatar

    “Apparently” is a perfectly good qualifier, Keach, since you were not in the FAA database. And there is no Student Pilot Certificate that isn’t also what I said it was, a certificate of adequate mirror fogging. Congratulations. You fogged the mirror but just never managed to get the Student Pilot Certificate endorsed. You never, ever, were granted the privileges of a Student Pilot, and none of your flights were conducted under the authority of a Student Pilot Certificate.
    And, more interesting, you chose to hide this for many years while denigrating my choice to fly. What a putz.

    Like

  18. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    “You never, ever, were granted the privileges of a Student Pilot, and none of your flights were conducted under the authority of a Student Pilot Certificate.”
    Which is totally irrelevant to the argument. A student pilot certificate is a student pilot certificate, whether it is used or not. I have one, and have it still, and that just boggles you mind, since I am, IYNSHO, “a weak or unmotivated student,” and it is funny to watch you do it, too.
    You keep on loosing, why do you do this to yourself?

    Like

  19. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    If you keep on “loosing” like this, eventually all your nuts will fall out, and then what will you think with?

    Like

  20. Gregory Avatar

    “So an instructor is welcome to take up students and give them lessons without either of these certificates, by just saying, “you’re covered under mine?” News to me”
    Apparently so. Imagine how short and sweet the conversation would have been had you not wanted an argument. Student Pilot Certificates certify nothing but your medical status and present a place for instructors to endorse. An unendorsed combo certificate and $4 will get you a fancy cup of coffee and nothing else. Unendorsed, they certify no aviation knowledge or skill. Not surprising in your case.
    Did Steve ever take you up in one of the family sailplanes?

    Like

  21. Gregory Avatar

    “You keep on loosing [sic], why do you do this to yourself?”
    You need to tighten up, Keach. The screw got loose again.

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  22. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    “while denigrating my choice to fly.”
    unlikely, very unlikely, since I make a portion of my living, flying in small plane, and taking photographs:
    http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=37902535%40N00&q=aerial&m=text

    Like

  23. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    The 1,194 aerial photos I’ve taken and posted on Flickr.com are a small portion of what I’ve shot since I started shooting aerials in 1978 over San Francisco, the Bay Area, and marvy Marin, as well as parts of Mexico.

    Like

  24. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    Greg not paying attention, already stated I had been up numerous times with brother, Fremont, Calistoga, Nevada Dry Lake beds, and Shellville. Winch launches and tows. Learned a lot about weather, cloud types, thermals, etc. Understand transponders, icing issues, and a whole variety of aeronautic stuff. None of it certified or certificated. So that means I’m a complete dunce and unqualified to comment on aviation, or assume any of the angelic royalty you seem to connect with aviation, which is something my brother hates ion other pilots, btw, and if that is the case, then your lack of a teaching credential completely disqualifies you from ever criticizing our schools and teachers in particular. If certification is the only path to knowledge in a particular field (“Unendorsed, they certify no aviation knowledge or skill.”) then you have no education knowledge.
    How does that work for you?

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  25. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    “You need to tighten up, Keach. The screw got loose again.”
    Sorry Greg, the nut has to get loose before the bolt gets loose. Screws do not have nuts. Please stay within the chosen metaphors.

    Like

  26. Gregory Avatar

    “So that means I’m a complete dunce and unqualified to comment on aviation, or assume any of the angelic royalty you seem to connect with aviation”
    “Seem” is one of those meaningless words you dredge up when you want to insult someone but there isn’t actually any quotes to support it. I’m not responsible for these delusions of yours, Keach. You have a hard time accepting corrections or criticism, that’s all, and resort to “sideways logic” or out and out fabrications to hit back. I can’t help but know more about flying than you do or have a better understanding about the physical sciences. Anthropology just doesn’t expose one to subjects like energy flows or finite element analysis, and you get upset when you can’t keep up.
    Enjoy your keepsake of a flight training that went nowhere. Might have been best your first “wifey-poo” kept you on a short leash.

    Like

  27. Gregory Avatar

    Now, George, I would have loved to chat about the topic at hand, but I could either have a fruitful chat with you or deal with the distraction of Keachie. The substantive discussion lost, which is Keachie’s Modus Operandi.
    Perhaps someday we can have a Keachie-free thread to be serious in.

    Like

  28. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    “I can’t help but know more about flying than you do or have a better understanding about the physical sciences.” I never said you didn’t and likewise I can’t help knowing more about teaching in urban and inner city environments than you’ll ever have inclination or time to learn. Besides, you’d probably find the pay scales disappointing, and getting along with parents and fellow faculty probably would be very weak suites for you. I am more than capable of picking up a lot from tagging along in George and your strengths, but I’m not so sure you’re open to learning anything new or different about education. We all have our strengths, and we all deserve respect, a basic social skill in which you have room for improvement. “First off be a decent, emphatic person.”
    Now back to your regular scheduled discussion of whether or not a blanket of CO2 up to 1,000 meters deep hugging the earth can act like an over-soaked diaper for the planet. Upon further reflection, maybe that is not a very productive metaphor, as the topic at hand, to reflect or not to reflect, [we’re discussing heat here] is a process that doesn’t work well in waterlogged environments.

    Like

  29. Gregory Avatar

    Teaching what, keach? Anthropology?
    It may surprise you, but the East of LA classrooms from which I sprang were just as urban as Berkeley, just not as urbane. And I suspect the kids my father taught would have given you a real fit; his early assignments were in the part of the district that had the highest percentage in California of exconvict residents.
    When I started fighting the whole language and whole math my son was being fed in the Grass Valley School District, he was completely in my camp.
    Say something useful in the education realm, Keachie. Hint: content knowledge trumps pedagogy every time, and I’ll be happy to bow to you when it comes to Anthropology.

    Like

  30. Gregory Avatar

    “First off be a decent, emphatic person.”
    em·phat·ic/emˈfatik/
    Adjective:
    Showing or giving emphasis; expressing something forcibly and clearly.
    (of an action or event or its result) Definite and clear.
    I’m there, Keach.

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  31. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    Which brings me to my nonothing layman’s question:
    Would it not be possible to set up a controlled environment, which at least finds out if increasing concentrations of CO2 in a closed system that was exposed to an external heat source 12 hours of each day, would reveal an increase in temperature in the bottom surface of the experimental site during the night?
    imagine a plexiglass box, with an open top, 30 feet high by as big a grant as you can get to build the other two dimensions, testing and keeping records for analysis, only during 24 hour times of little no winds, where the CO2 concentration is controllable, and there are thermal sensors all over the bottom of the box. For simplicities sake, the bottom would be tiled with large granite slabs, at least 6 inches thick, laid on very dense foam. The site for the experiment should be as wind free as possible in the first place. Fairfield is not acceptable.
    Has such an experiment already been done?

    Like

  32. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    Actually, you’d want two such boxes, close to one another, similarly situated. The second box has no additional CO2 added, so that you have a control that replicates external ambient temperatures perfectly.

    Like

  33. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    I guess you missed the draft essay on teacher evaluation that I posted here and couple of days back. You have no credential, the equivalent to your pilot certificate, in the education world, therefore, you are not qualified to say anything, remember your Gregistic Logic.
    My first professional assignment was in the Richmond Unified School District. Have you ever seen a test score sheet where the kid has filled in the bubbles on a state mandated test to make a perfect smiley face pattern? I’ve already described Hunters Point where deaths were marked with effigies wearing the actual bullet ridden shirts, with balloons flying high, notes and toys, many candles, and then liquor bottles all around the feet.
    Being a student in a ghetto school is to teaching in one, as watching a fire retardant bomber release its load is to actually flying the drop.
    Again you are not qualified, now back to physics please, so you get a chance to win a few too.

    Like

  34. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    BTW, was watching time shifted “House,” and stealing line at same time:
    Definition for empathetic:
    Web definitions:
    empathic: showing empathy or ready comprehension of others’ states; “a sensitive and empathetic school counselor”.
    wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
    “First off be a decent, emphatic person.”
    I was paying more attention to the show than to the post. “No red squiggles, go for it.”

    Like

  35. Gregory Avatar

    Keachie, your proposed experiment is a flawed and useless investigation of 19th century physical chemistry, of which you remain blissfully ignorant.
    By 19th century physical chemistry, a doubling of CO2 would result in about a 1C rise in temps. So from 300 to 600, or 400 to 800, would result in that 1C rise. It took the 20th century to go from about 320 to 390. How long from 390 to 780? Think we could even extract that much fossil fuel going forward?
    This is all food for thought presented to you multiple times over the past 5 years, yet you chose to ignore it.

    Like

  36. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    Who, back in 19th century physical chemistry, did the experiment, and where? Or if what you are suggesting is mathematically derived, rather than experimentally., are you discussing the temperature of the gas, or the surface temperature of our experimental “planet,” i.e., the temperature 1/2 the way inside the slabs? The latter is what I think we are aiming for. Which is it, in your statements?

    Like

  37. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    It sound s like you are referencing Boyle’s Law, which would be inapplicable here:
    Robert Boyle (and Edme Mariotte) derived the law solely on experimental grounds. The law can also be derived theoretically based on the presumed existence of atoms and molecules and assumptions about motion and perfectly elastic collisions (see kinetic theory of gases). These assumptions were met with enormous resistance in the positivist scientific community at the time however, as they were seen as purely theoretical constructs for which there was not the slightest observational evidence.
    Daniel Bernoulli in 1737-1738 derived Boyle’s law using Newton’s laws of motion with application on a molecular level. It remained ignored until around 1845, when John Waterston published a paper building the main precepts of kinetic theory; this was rejected by the Royal Society of England. Later works of James Prescott Joule, Rudolf Clausius and in particular Ludwig Boltzmann firmly established the kinetic theory of gases and brought attention to both the theories of Bernoulli and Waterston.[8]
    The debate between proponents of Energetics and Atomism led Boltzmann to write a book in 1898, which endured criticism up to his suicide in 1906.[8] Albert Einstein in 1905 showed how kinetic theory applies to the Brownian motion of a fluid-suspended particle, which was confirmed in 1908 by Jean Perrin.[8]

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  38. Gregory Avatar

    Keachie, sorry, one cannot get an understanding of physics by wielding wikipedia snippets, and no one did your particular experiment because it would have been a waste of time.
    Here’s a modern treatment for you from a physicist at the Brookhaven National Laboratory:
    http://www.ecd.bnl.gov/steve/pubs/HeatCapacity.pdf
    Enjoy.

    Like

  39. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    Dear Greg,
    Thanks for the light reading material for breakfast and coffee. You do seem to have at least an inkling of what it takes to be a good teacher, in that you found relatively recent summary materials covering the topic in which the student is interested. Your bedside manner might be improved a bit.
    Given
    “Following the estimate of Levitus et al. [2005] that the heat uptake of the world ocean constitutes 84% of
    the total heat uptake by the climate system (other major components are heating of continental land masses,
    5%; melting of continental glaciers, 5%, and heating of the atmosphere, 4%), I evaluate the global heat
    capacity pertinent to climate change on the multidecadal scale as 16.7 ± 7.0 W yr m-2 K-1.”
    something I’ve often wondered about, is it not possible that the weather associated even small changes in local microclimate warmings might have severe effects on what we consider as normal life styles? As the world paves more and more of its surface with black asphalt, maybe the local global warming near cities is greater than the GMST?
    And yes, it would take many re-readings and lookups for me to understand the paper, even 1/8th as well as you do. But no, it is not complete gooble-t-gook. I shared studying for the neuro boards via flash cards with younger daughter the other night, and she was surprised at how much I did understand of what was going on. When I realized how much her work involved what I described as, chemical electronics, and how easy it would be for her to understand EE, she said, “Dad, didn’t you know that physics was my favorite hard science?”
    When it is all said and done, wouldn’t you prefer a planet with clean air?

    Like

  40. George Rebane Avatar

    Debating whether adding CO2 to the stratosphere would raise surface temps is mostly a waste of time. Posit that it will and go on with the magnitude and impact arguments. The magnitude of such increase is so small that the only benefactors from it will be plants. Growing seasons will expand slightly toward the polar latitudes. And yes, ‘civilized’ heat islands have come up all over the place, but again not enough to make much difference in the global temp. Their main effect has been to contaminate ground level temperature data that the IPCC used to make its first alarmist predictions. Finally, CO2 does not make the air “dirty”, even if it increased several hundred percent to levels the earth’s biosphere has enjoyed many times in its opulent growth periods in the past.
    Now, the political impacts of increasing atmospheric CO2 are a whole different matter.

    Like

  41. D Avatar

    Interesting how the simulation of Yucca Mountain is suspect, but not a world wide climate model.
    http://motherjones.com/politics/2001/09/yucca-mountain-nuclear-roulette

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  42. George Rebane Avatar

    DougK 342pm – Yes, if we could somehow stop the thermal agitation of the atmospheric gases and major air movements laterally across the surface, then CO2 (atomic wt 44) would be the heaviest compared to the two major gases of O2 (32) and N2 (28); CO2 would definitely want to migrate toward the bottom of the barrel. But the mixing energies totally overpower the gravitational effects which produce the homogeneous mix we see.

    Like

  43. Gregory Avatar

    “You do seem to have at least an inkling of what it takes to be a good teacher, in that you found relatively recent summary materials covering the topic in which the student is interested. Your bedside manner might be improved a bit.”
    No amount of obscenities would do justice to your thoughts, Keachie. You’ve spread lies about me in multiple different forums, and your daughters should be ashamed of their father. The “bedside manner” you’ve received is far better than you’ve deserved.
    I’ve sent you similar links over the years, and the effect has been as pearls before swine. It’s doubtful this one will be any different with time.
    “When it is all said and done, wouldn’t you prefer a planet with clean air?”
    Everyone would, Keach. CO2 is clean. Who would you starve to usher in this alternative energy Utopia we’d have if only the whole world followed the folly of California, Spain and others?
    -Greg

    Like

  44. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    Of course CO2 itself is clean, but some hold that it may help trap heat here on earth, especially in the urbanized and otherwise densely populated regions.
    What we know for sure is that:
    CO@ is the canary from the coal mine, which heralds all the rest of the not so good stuff that is released into the atmosphere, when burning fossil fuels. It’s pretty darn hard to burn oil or coal without producing carbon dioxide.
    Have you had your daily dose of sewer gas? Sewer gases may include hydrogen sulfide, ammonia, methane, carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides. Improper disposal of petroleum products such as gasoline and mineral spirits contribute to sewer gas hazards. Sewer gases are of concern due to their odor, health effects, and potential for creating fire or explosions.
    The stuff your car produces when burning gasoline or diesel has a lot in common with sewer gas, and a few extra specialties of its own.
    Hydrogen sulfide is really nasty stuff, smells like rotten eggs in lower concentrations, and then a funny thing happens in higher concentrations above 70 ppm, it overwhelmes you sense of smell, and you CAN’T smell it. And then at around 1000 ppm, it kills you within minutes.
    Small amounts of hydrogen sulfide occur in crude petroleum, but natural gas can contain up to 90%.[6] Volcanoes and some hot springs (as well as cold springs) emit some H2S, where it probably arises via the hydrolysis of sulfide minerals, i.e. MS + H2O → MO + H2S.[citation needed]
    About 10% of total global emissions of H2S is due to human activity. By far the largest industrial route to H2S occurs in PETROLEUM REFINERIES: The hydrodesulfurization process liberates sulfur from petroleum by the action of hydrogen. The resulting H2S is converted to elemental sulfur by partial combustion via the Claus process, which is a major source of elemental sulfur. Other anthropogenic sources of hydrogen sulfide include coke ovens, paper mills (using the sulfate method), and tanneries. H2S arises from virtually anywhere where elemental sulfur comes in contact with organic material, especially at high temperatures.
    Hydrogen sulfide can be present naturally in well water. In such cases, ozone is often used for its removal; an alternative method uses a filter with manganese dioxide. Both methods oxidize sulfides to much less toxic sulfates.
    As for folks dying, they do that already, and if I saw a world wide effort to get internal combustion engines out there to pump fresh water and grow crops and move stuff to market, I might listen to that argument. As it is, only capitalism, and not altruism serves as the main driving force behind the coal petroleum based economies. Givenm that a full push to solar will, in the long run, save far more lives, you know which side I’m on.

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  45. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    BTW, maybe you are concerned they will get around to the leaded gas still used in small planes?
    If you were concerned about starving children, how about children with lower IQ’s?
    The tetra-ethyl lead found in leaded avgas and its combustion products are potent neurotoxins that have been shown in scientific research to interfere with brain development in children. The United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has noted that exposure to even very low levels of lead contamination has been conclusively linked to loss of IQ in children’s brain function tests, thus providing a high degree of motivation to eliminate lead and its compounds from the environment.[15][16]
    “ While lead concentrations in the air have declined, scientific studies have demonstrated that children’s neurological development is harmed by much lower levels of lead exposure than previously understood. Low level lead exposure has been clearly linked to loss of IQ in performance testing. Even an average IQ loss of 1-2 points in children has a meaningful impact for the nation as a whole, as it would result in an increase in children classified as mentally challenged, as well as a proportional decrease in the number of children considered “gifted.”[16] ”
    Or maybe the need to speed through the universe exceeds your need for intelligent children? Yes the 186 million gallons of avgas is only .14% of the autogas used on the ground each year, but every bit hurts.
    You like being sanctimonious about the starving children, so I thought I’d give it a go, too.

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  46. Gregory Avatar

    “You like being sanctimonious about the starving children”
    A quote of mine illustrating this, please. It isn’t just starving children that bear the brunt of energy costing six times as much (a factor used by Energy Sec’y Chu) as it could.
    While you’re digging for that, a quote illustrating the “the angelic royalty you seem to connect with aviation” quip you made earlier.
    Just a couple of the defamations that have sprung from the mind of Keachie. Might not be a lie, Keachie probably believes in the caricatures he carries around in his head more than the reality of what I have written.

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  47. Gregory Avatar

    “Of course CO2 itself is clean, but some hold that it may help trap heat here on earth, especially in the urbanized and otherwise densely populated regions.”
    No, they don’t Keachie. Get the alarmist science straight… they are doing their best to not claim there is an “urban heat island” effect, because that undermines the claims to CO2 being the culprit.
    Where CO2 is supposed to work its dastardly deed is well above the ground,in the upper troposphere, especially over equatorial regions. That large bubble of heat is predicted by all the models but has yet to be found. See page 22, the right side of the screen, for the NASA GISS (Hanson’s work) simulation vs the measured reality:
    http://indico.cern.ch/getFile.py/access?resId=0&materialId=slides&confId=52576
    And yes, you’ve been given that link before.
    Keachie, you are both a Lysenko Looney and a Climate Change Clown.
    “What a maroon! What an ignoranimus!” -Bugs B.

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  48. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    Did I ever say our realities are the same? You grabbed my totally undefined “some” and assigned to the group you decided it went with, and so IMHO, based on that and a whole lot of other items you choose to expose of yourself online, you are indeed quite the control freak. If i say it is near the ground, and you say all the warming folks are looking for it upstairs but can’t find it, doesn’t that seem to re-enforce the opinion I posted? I frankly have no desire to waste any more of my time responding to pretty much anything you wish to say, because even if I am in agreement with you, you’ll look for some way to use it to attempt to trash me.
    I really have to doubt that you are qualified as a resident of this little hamlet, in the social department.

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  49. Gregory Avatar

    Reality is reality, Keach, and if you say I act as if I am part of an aviation “angelic royalty”, you’re just blowing smoke out of your ass (as usual) if you can’t dredge up at least one quote that supports it.
    I don’t know what you think that photo represents. Is that where you live? Or just some random place you’d like to live? And why do you think this jog in the thread is appropriate?

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