Real News and Pabulum (updated)

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November 2011
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Real News and Pabulum (updated)

17 November 2011

George Rebane

Until further notice, please pay attention to –

1.    The German/French sovereign debt spread – subtract German interest rate from French interest rate. This summarizes the entire eurozone crisis. Use formula/chart in 'Investors playing the odds' to find likelihood that France defaults and/or that the ECB starts massive printing of euros to bail out their banks – hyperinflation.
2.    The price of gold – ever upward, but watch for the super-exponential bubbles.
3.    Israel’s plan to attack Iran’s nuclear weapon facilities. When there’s no news about it, the risk of attack goes up.
4.    China’s US debt holdings – decreases are bad.

And ignore the following as distracting noise, pabulum, or simply entertainment –

1.    Who’s ahead among the Republican presidential candidates.
2.    Promised Congressional spending cuts and tax increases.
3.    Pedophiles in athletics.
4.    Moonbeam’s plans to reduce California’s unfunded liabilities.
5.    Anything on climate change that is connected to the UN.
6.    Obama’s promises.
7.    Bernanke’s economic projections and statements on quantitative easing.

8. Who ran their hand up whose dress.

9. Anything concerning Occupy.

10. Any claims that government mandated green energy will ever be affordable.

Reader edits invited.

Posted in Critical Thinking & Numeracy, Current Affairs, Our Country, Our World

72 responses to “Real News and Pabulum (updated)”

Bob W

17 November 2011

Under noise, pabulum, or simply entertainment:
9. Anything concerning Occupy.

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Russ Steele

17 November 2011

Under noise, pabulum, or simply entertainment:
10. Any claims that green energy will ever be affordable.

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George Rebane

17 November 2011

Re BobW’s 737am – I was a bit discombuberated about the occupiers in this list of near-term important stuff. Most certainly if they start throwing molotovs into Macy’s, and that’s picked up across the country, then it’s time to pay attention. OK, let’s add it.
Re Russ’ 808am – Well those claims for the near-term are most certainly pabulum. But as an engineer, I hate to say ‘never’ for technology objectives. But if you’ll accept ‘Any claims that government mandated green energy will ever be affordable.’ will most certainly be true in the near-term.

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Douglas Keachie

17 November 2011

The iranians are not stupid. The plants are way way underground, with multiple entrances, miles apart, and probably under Tehran itself, not a politically nukable target. It may take them awhile, but they will get the bomb, if they don’t already have it.

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Douglas Keachie

17 November 2011

Currently deciding whether to cash in gold, so that more than a passing interest. Bus service, here to ski areas, a local topic of interest, as it would boost both hotel and restaurant business, nobody likes crawling up 80, and rates are cheaper and food as good if not better here. Covered in Pelline’s blog. Well, at least the SquawAlpine merger was, and I brought up the additional about busses & businesses, along with another dude. Double your pleasure with Squawvine wine? Nope, that’s one of my lesser creations.

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George Rebane

17 November 2011

Russ asked me to delete the thread referring to JeffP’s blog. I agree that such mudballs detract from the real discussions we seek in these pages. The thread has been deleted.

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Paul Emery

17 November 2011

Let’s add Tea Party burpings to the list of avoidable subjects.

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George Rebane

17 November 2011

PaulE – what’s a ‘Tea Party burp’? Example?

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mike thornton

17 November 2011

George writes:
“what’s a ‘Tea Party burp’?”
Now that would be a long, long list of which plenty of examples exist right here!

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George Rebane

17 November 2011

MikeT – I think you missed the point. In this post we are talking about news that is broadcast on established news media. You, I imagine, would be the last to ascribe RR as such.
I think that PaulE is referring to some offerings that issue from one or more of the Tea Party factions which are intended for public consumption, but he will be the judge of that. As an analog to the Occupiers, they have their various leadership confabs, and then tell the press what their latest “burps” are so that they can remain in the public eye. Capice?

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Russ Steele

17 November 2011

I recommend that we add The Tea Party Debt Commission Budget Report as number 5 under the issues to pay attention to.
http://blogs.freedomworks.org/files/TeaPartyBudget.pdf

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mike thornton

17 November 2011

George:
I agree with you that the commercial media spends way too much time on trivial and meaningless stuff. But of course you spin off that legitimate topic to go onto the standard RR political diatribe.
Here’s some legitimate news:
http://news.yahoo.com/patriotic-millionaires-beg-supercommittee-higher-taxes-185620525.html
Can we agree that this should be given extensive coverage, since it goes counter to the arguement being promlugated by the Tea Party and the Republican inteligensia?

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Greg Goodknight

17 November 2011

Just how much have the Patriotic Millionairs donated (above and beyond what is legally due) to the IRS to date?

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mike thornton

17 November 2011

I don’t know GG, but the fact is that they are going to Congress and saying that they’re willing to pony up some of their cash so the entire burden doesn’t fall on the poor and working class. I think they should be commended for their patriotism.
Clearly you’re going to hold onto your miserly view.

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Scott Obermuller

17 November 2011

‘Patriotic’ millionaires asking to have their taxes increased is a joke. They can do that themselves any time they want if they actually had any sort of integrity. This is a stunt. It does not counter any sort of argument whatever from fiscal conservatives. The govt is spending way too much money. And it’s financial obligations are not realistically covered by the current model moving forward. Even if these pathetic bozos got their wish, this country would still be buried under an avalanche of debt. That fact is becoming increasingly clear to an ever increasing number of people. The ‘rich’ don’t have the money to pull this country out of it’s hole. Spain’s and Italy’s cost of debt service is approaching 7%. That is a fact. What part of this don’t you on the left get?

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Greg Goodknight

17 November 2011

Ahh, so they’ll be “Patriotic” only if the Congress forces all the other ‘fat cats’ at the same time. Not exactly ringing the bell, is it?
The history of budget deals is rife with tax increases now with spending reductions later. Later never comes.
Major spending reductions now, tax increases starting in two years, you might have a deal.

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Todd Juvinall

17 November 2011

How about anything Chuck Schumer or Harry Reid say?

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George Rebane

17 November 2011

MikeT 1212pm – I’m not sure what their claim to patriotism is beyond writing the IRS a bigger check than is required by tax law. Declaring the magnitude of their patriotism by publishing 1) the percent of their income they had to pay, and 2) the percent they actually paid could be impressive and cause me to applaud. But showing ‘patriotism’ by asking Congress to dip its hand deeper into my pocket without consulting me is bullcrap in a free society. And doing so before writing the bigger checks themselves is doubly so.
In this argument the fact stands that if you taxed the ‘rich’ at 100%, it still wouldn’t make a difference.

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Todd Juvinall

17 November 2011

I saw a analysis of donations/giving by the liberals and the conservatives. It was something like three or four to one giving more by the right. So maybe Thorton should start digging into his Ralph Lauren jeans and start putting his money where his mouth is rather than telling us to pay more. Capice Thornton?

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George Rebane

17 November 2011

MikeT 1212pm – “But of course you spin off that legitimate topic to go onto the standard RR political diatribe.” Since you didn’t/couldn’t give any examples of Tea Party “burps”, perhaps you could point readers to what “political diatribe” have I gone off into here.
ToddJ – re giving by the Right/Left. There was a university study done on that a few years back which the WSJ published. The results where overwhelmingly one-sided. Conservatives gave more than five times to charities than liberals. The reason, the study revealed, was that in the aggregate liberals don’t look at themselves as having an individual responsibility to give to the needy. They perceive that it is the job of the collective (i.e. government) to provide for the poor. Therefore, they work for starting more programs with those purposes, which require more spending, which require more taxes, which requires OPM, … , you know the drill. A totally different mindset.

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Todd Juvinall

17 November 2011

George, do you have the link for that study? I just recall the Bush/Gore campaign where Gore wa doing the liberal mantra about the miserly R’s and perhaps that is what inspired the WSJ to review the giving. Then the libs tried to do it again during the Kerry flop. The left has a fog on the brain about these things. We on the right are too humble to pat ourselves on the backs about giving or other social things. When Gore and Kerry were running they tried to tell us how much smarter they were than Bush and when the transcripts were reveleed it showed Bush had better grades! I guess that might be the reason we have never seen Obama’s transcripts?

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Mike Thornton

17 November 2011

Here ya go.
4. Moonbeam’s plans to reduce California’s unfunded liabilities.
5. Anything on climate change that is connected to the UN.
6. Obama’s promises.
7. Bernanke’s economic projections and statements on quantitative easing.
8.
9. Anything concerning Occupy.
10. Any claims that government mandated green energy will ever be affordable.

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Mike Thornton

17 November 2011

TJ, you show yourself to be a bigger A-0 every time you open your keyboard. You have no idea what charities I give too or how much money and/or time I donate to charitable causes.
You are truly a pitiful and small man.

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Ben Emery

17 November 2011

George,
Real issue or chatter?
“There was a university study done on that a few years back which the WSJ published. The results where overwhelmingly one-sided. Conservatives gave more than five times to charities than liberals.”
I disagree with the narrative of such a study on the fact that it is based in capital only. Going off such a study would allow your misrepresentation of liberals/ collectivists believing that is the governments job to take care of the poor true. Based on your description of the study I personally would be almost at the 0% range, I don’t have lots of extra money to donate. If the study looked at donation of time instead of capital I would be pretty high on the list. Both capital and time are needed. If you start seeing the world through a different lens things begin to become more clear.

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Todd Juvinall

17 November 2011

Ben, you have beaten the horse to death here and everywhere in your mantra on money. You want higher taxes and more money to be paid by those that have it. Now you expect us to buy your “golly, I volunteer more than you so we are even”. I shake my head at the total illogical rants of the left.

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Todd Juvinall

17 November 2011

Thornton, you know you don’t donate to the poor. I bet you drive right by those folks on the corner and I bet you don’t even look at them.

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Bill Tozer

17 November 2011

I read last year the Vice President of the United States of American, the former Senator Joe A Biden, gave a mind boggling $500 to charity per released tax returns. Of course it is legal to write off the 500 clams, but I was underwhelmed with the amount. Not wonder when Joe was running for Prez, only 3% of the Dems and libs voted for him in the primaries. Guess that means 97% of the Dems in Iowa, New Hampshire, and sundry places voted against him. And he became VPeep. Only in America could a rejected candidate be one breath from being the Big Honcho, the Top Dog, The Leader of the Free World. Personally, I don’t keep track of my donations or write them off. Don’t let the left hand know what the right hand is doing. I donate for fun and free cause it is the Right thing to do. Prez Clinton wrote off even his underwear he donated to charity. That is totally legal, but come on, who would want Bubba’s tighty whiteys? Guess that goes in the entertainment category.

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George Rebane

17 November 2011

BenE 505pm – I think you are drastically wrong on the volunteer time that conservatives put in to charities. There the asymmetry of what kinds of time conservatives put in would blow your mind. Where it is clear that liberals put in more time is for civic/political action groups that militate toward what kind of world they would like to create (e.g. Agenda 21). There you liberals beat the pants off conservatives, as is very apparent in the direction the country has taken in the last 45 years.
MikeT 449pm – Thank you. That indeed is the characterization of current inconsequential news items and the general attitude of the message of RR, or as you say, “the standard RR political diatribe”. We all wish you would address your remarks to the diatribe instead of the diatribers. But, that would be asking too much.

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Mike Thornton

18 November 2011

I do address the diatribes. And the diatribers, George. You just don’t like the answers.
Don’t get me wrong, I understand why you have such a hard time. You guys get proved wrong every single day. If I got slapped around as much as you do by the likes of Frisch, the Emeries and Enos, I’d be grumpy too.

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Mikey McD

18 November 2011

“Diatribe” for progressives to address:
What should the punishment be for a 30 year old father of 3 who chooses NOT to pay ‘his’ social security taxes?

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George Rebane

18 November 2011

MikeT – again you misunderstand and we mis-communicate. Please rest in the comfort that I am not in the least grumpy, but try to provide a stimulating experience for RR readers. Judging from your frequent visits, I take it that you enjoy your time here also. But honestly, we don’t see much substance in your address of issues. In this assertion I invite you to compare and contrast your own efforts with those of, say, Messrs Ben Emery, Doug Keachie, Paul Emery, and even Steven Frisch.
Having said that, you have to ask yourself why you are tolerated here (in spite of the emails I get about your contributions). The reason is simple when we recall what the purpose of RR is – it is a conservative/libertarian commentary and readers’ forum for explicating a distinct socio-political ideology and its benefits to enlightened governance addressed primarily to the ‘independent’ and ‘middle-of-the-road’ readers.
In this light I welcome contention and debate from the Left of the ideas that I and like minded readers present here. And you have a distinct place in that spectrum of contention that I want my readers to see. You are currently the book-end in the political spectrum here. You represent the rabid Left and I want those undecided readers to see every word of how people of your ilk respond to the ideas discussed herein.
If you didn’t shower us with your contributions, I and others would have to go cut/paste them from sites like truthout.com and diverse lamestream outlets. Instead, you favor us by showing all what one of you looks like in vitro, right here in these comment streams giving your best responses to what is being discussed. That is your raison d’etre on RR, and as long as you remain semi-civil and it is acceptable to you, it shall so remain.

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Greg Goodknight

18 November 2011

Perhaps one of these days Frisch will comment on that professor from his old PoliSci department at ‘Frisco State, who believes conservatism is racism. Steve has made it very clear here that he believes denouncing bigoted words and thoughts is essential to retain one’s own credibility.
Here we go, Steve. You’ve a degree in PoliSci, from the same school. Do you think conservatism is inherently racist?
Personally, I think mainstream conservatism is fundamentally flawed, though conservatives with libertarian leanings are not lost causes. But racist? Only an intellectual bigot could agree with that.

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Mike Thornton

18 November 2011

Well, gee George, I guess getting 7 emails would be a bit overwhelming…. I come here because I find it entertaining. What I always find amazing is your double standard for discourse on RR. You and your friends say some of the most hateful and obnoxious things on a daily basis and that is apparently OK with you. In fact (by your actions) you encourage it. Now either you do this consciously, which says to me that you’re a hypocrite or (and this is possible true) that you’re so blinded by your own ideology that you simply can’t see it.
And to be clear, I’m happy to have a substantive discussion on any topic. What I won’t do is engage in a one sided fight where the “Gang of 8” gets to use the Todd Juvenile “Rules of Engagement”, but nobody else does.
When it comes to RR “ideas” as you like to call them. The fact of the matter is that they don’t wash in the real world. I don’t have to “cut & paste” to prove that. I really believe that you’ve gotten a bit used to having your small circle of sycophants and fellow travelers, telling you and each other how brilliant you all are that you’ve begun to believe your own hype.
Lets face it George, how long have you been doing this blog? And how many regular posters do you have? If it weren’t for the likes of the few lefties (and to some degree Crabb)you’d have the same eight people stroking each other over and over.
So, in the end I’m happy to treat you and the rest of the “Gang of 8” with the same decency and respect that you guys treat others with.
The day I see you publicly put TJ in check, is the day that I’ll take you seriously on these matters.

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Todd Juvinall

18 November 2011

Thorton is a fine example of the extreme left and I applaud George for leaving his comments here for all to read. How a supposed grown man can be such a whiner especially about the meany name Todd just cracks me up. One only needs to remember all the radio shows hosted on KVMR where Thornton ambushed people he didn’t like. Of course, then he had control of the microphone didn’t he? So, thank you George for letting all people of intelligence read the liberals words here.

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Greg Goodknight

18 November 2011

Thornton, your tactics are indistinguishable from Todd’s. You’re a bombthrower unspoiled by self-awareness or an excess of formal education.

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Mike Thornton

18 November 2011

And on another note:
In response to something TJ said in an earlier post; You’re right Todd. I ride my bike or drive past poor and homeless people everyday. On most days (in fact) it’s literally hundreds of them. More an more every day. Let’s be clear however, that whatever my level of charitable giving and volunteer work is, it is the type of society and policies that you and the rest of the “Gang of 8” beat the drum for that is putting more and more, men women and children into poverty and out on the streets. The selfish, greedy, pitiless, mean and small vision you seek to saddle the country with is something, not to celebrated, but to be ashamed of. So you’re right Todd, I don’t give every homeless person, I see money or invite them to come live with me. But them again, I actually do work to try and help make it easier for people to have a home, a job, a decent education and a future.
I would really suggest that you go to that Bible you like to thump and read: “The Sermon on the Mount”. It might do you a little good.

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Mike Thornton

18 November 2011

Todd”
I’m not whining about you. I’m using you as an example of George’s hypocrisy.
There’s a huge difference, but I understand that you’re a legend in your own mind and think the world revolves around you. It doesn’t!

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Mike Thornton

18 November 2011

GG are you saying TJ has a lack of self awareness and lack of formal education?

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Todd Juvinall

18 November 2011

Why do people that don’t believe in the Bible always use it to make their points? That has to be an illness.
Greg, you may be right about me, I do try and expose the hypocrites on the left like Thornton and for that I am guilty.
I do chuckle when I read how mean and whatever ad hominem the Thornton’s claim their opposition is and how the liberals are filled with sweetness and light. America is great because the people corralled government and its lackeys and let the people prosper because when someone does something for themselves and succeeds it usually rolls out into the general population. The entrepreneur creates something, like say a Steve Jobs in his garage, or a Hewlett in his garage, and lo and behold, over time and with lots of hard work they succeed. The results of their success are millions of the “middle class” employed and many billions of dollars spreading throughout the economy. Then when all the success is known, the government comes in and calls them misers and bums for making so much money. That is what Thornton and his ilk do. They cry the blues about those that are a success, never giving them any kudos for actually creating something and employing millions and making the place work. Instead Thornton is apparently jealous of the success so like many on the left they create an industry of critics and people who preach hate of the successful. Never mind the successful gives billions of dollars of their own money to help along with the taxes taken and redistributed by Thornton’s ilk. No, it is strictly envy on the part of the left. Ben Emery is also a good example of that.
If anyone had any doubts about the liberals/commie/socialists envy then listen to the interviews of the scofflaws calling themselves the “Occupy Wall Street” protestors. They are spoiled brats whose moms ad dads made it in America and now the kids are rebelling against that success and trying to “change” the unfair system. The “opportunity” country is now going to become the “outcome” country. That is the lesson the radical left like Thornton want.

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Greg Goodknight

18 November 2011

Thornton, you should be able to parse what I wrote and determine what it means. I’ll help you:
“Thornton’s tactics are indistinguishable from Todd’s”
“Thornton is a bombthrower unspoiled by self-awareness or an excess of formal education”
Those are two separate statements. Do you think one can deduce from those a statement about Todd’s self awareness or formal education?

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Steve Frisch

18 November 2011

I believed that I stated above that I do not believe that all conservatives are racists, and in line with that I do not believe that conservatism is inherently racist. I do think that many people who are racists gravitated to the conservative wing of the Republican party after they adopted the southern strategy in the late 1960’s, many of them emigrating from the democratic party from both the Dixiecrats and the conservative northern urban base that opposed integration. Because of that there is a greater concentration of racists in the republican party today than the democratic party, which I believe is evidenced here by posters tolerance of tongue in cheek race baiting jokes like “moving on up”.

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Mike Thornton

18 November 2011

Frankly I wish more liberals would eschew the “We are sweetness and light” and kick a little more ass. And GG, do you need a road map to follow a an exchange? If you want, I’ll slow down to Mensa speed and let ya catch up…..

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Todd Juvinall

18 November 2011

Golly, guess the OWS folks were only funning in their blatant anti-Semitic rants. Also, the ZERO statements by any Tea Party Patriot along those lines must mean they were closet anti-Semites based on the ridiculous screed by Frisch. So, I am “moving on up” to a better life here in Nevada County, come on along!

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Steve Frisch

18 November 2011

Yeah well Todd I would not allow a blatantly anti-semitic remark to go unchallenged either, even when delivered by a fan of OWS. I think since you troll these blogs regularly you know I am no immediate fan of OWS. I think their message is muddled and disorganized, and I have expressed that consistently. Neither would I countenance racism by a conservative democrat.

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Mike Thornton

18 November 2011

I disagree with you Steve (not on TJ) but on OWS. The message is clear and it is focused!
The economic, political and social systems (as currently constituted) in the US are structured to work in favor of the 1% and directly against the 99% (technically the 80%) but 99% is a better soundbite)
I submit that asking OWS to come up with their plan for derivatives reform or restructuring the global economic system, campaign finance etc. is playing into the hands of the 1% and their “Running Dog Lackies” (that one was for all the RR Cold Warriors)
There are lots of smart people who have the skills and expertise to take on those issues and they already know what needs to be done. They simply aren’t doing it! The idea that they should be able to demand that a bunch of people living in a park have to come up with the plan is (frankly) ridiculous and lets the real culprits off the hook…

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Greg Goodknight

18 November 2011

Thornton, it’s easy to think at faster-than-light speed if you are unconstrained by reality. Marx was the same way.
Groucho was faster and funnier.

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Todd Juvinall

18 November 2011

I has to suck to be such a sour puss about everything Frisch. You should have been part of Enigma, looking for the hidden meanings in everything people say. No, I don’t recall you taking your buddy Bruce Levy to task for his statements on John Stoos about the Christian religion. (since you troll the blogs) Or any other lefty for that matter. The reason is you are a lefty and birds of a feather…..So when I read the disingenuous crap from a liberal about his/her disavowing a lefty comment without really ever seeing one, I know it is just BS.
Thornton is a true believer and is totally simpatico with the OWS because he is pone. The same nihilistic endeavors by people who do nothing to make the human race prosper or advance. In that regards you and Thornton are the same, you want to take the money from the people that have it and give to those that don’t and are mostly lazy asses. Blood brothers. Only it appears SF is better at the redistribution than Thornton appears to be.

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Mike Thornton

18 November 2011

I’m a big fan of Groucho “Say the secret word (in this case “wingnut’) and get a hundred dollars.”
I think Marx (Karl) was a pretty smart and insightful guy. However I don’t kiss his arse like you guys do with Ayn (the hypocrite) Rand.
Todd, can you please tell me how sticking the bank (and the taxpayers) with bad loan debts and failed projects does anything to “make the human race prosper or advance”?

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George Rebane

18 November 2011

MikeT – Just to review, it appears that the 1977 CRA, the role of Fannie and Freddie as government guaranteed loan buyers, the exhortations of such as Barney and Maxine re the health of Fannie and Freddie and the enforcement of the CRA, the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999, the Fed’s insistence on making money essentially free, had little little or nothing to do with causing the real estate bubble and its eventual burst. Government gets a pass, and it’s all the fault of the “banksters”.

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Todd Juvinall

18 November 2011

MikeT I have no idea what you are asking me. But, as is the case with anything you say, that would not be unusual.

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