Rebane's Ruminations
November 2011
S M T W T F S
 12345
6789101112
13141516171819
20212223242526
27282930  

ARCHIVES


OUR LINKS


YubaNet
White House Blog
Watts Up With That?
The Union
Sierra Thread
RL “Bob” Crabb
Barry Pruett Blog

George Rebane

[This is the submitted form of my regular column in The Union which appears in its 12nov11 print and online editions (here) under its less harsh title 'Public service unions will be our demise', no doubt edited for a more sensitive readership than frequent these pages.]

Today socialist Europe is unraveling after years of ‘robbing Peter to pay Paul’ has finally hit a brick wall.  With riots in the streets, the Peters have run out of money and patience with a system of governance that simply does not work.  And what has caused the rot now toppling governments of countries that have essentially gone broke and live on borrowed money?  You need look no further than the trans-national common denominator – public service unions.

These unions have bloated governments to hire and retire workers in prodigious numbers.  In Greece, the current paragon of socialist corruption, more than one in four of the country’s workers are government employees being paid benefits that are out of reach in the private sector.  Well, the music has stopped and everyone there is scrambling for a safe seat.  Why? Because the lenders are refusing to throw more money into a fiscal cesspool from which there is little chance of payback.  Eurozone lenders say that there is less than one chance in ten that Greece will NOT go fiscally belly-up in the next twelve months.

But Greece is chump change when compared to Italy, Europe’s third largest economy on a headlong charge off the inevitable socialist cliff.  Maybe Greece can be bailed for a year – anything longer is not feasible.  There is no will left in Europe’s more fiscally prudent countries to rescue Greece.  It will simply have to quit the euro, and print itself into oblivion with drachmas.  But Italy is too big to bail and, for the sake of international stability, too big to fail.  The country’s sovereign debt is over $2,500,000,000,000 (that’s trillions), and they can’t print euros.


Next to bankrupt behind Italy are Spain, Portugal, Ireland, …, and even France, whose banks have been heavy lenders to both Italy and Greece.  And every one of the teetering Europeans has been put on a collision course with the iceberg by their respective public service unions that have organized their government employees into wards of the state – with recourse.  When pushed, these short workweek, long vacation, early retirement, large pension workers know they can shut down their country in a heartbeat.  They have done it before, and they’ll do it again.

Why does all this concern us?  Because we connect to Europe in more ways than we can count, and we are copying their mistakes at an extraordinary clip.  When public service unions appeared in America, our first socialist president FDR fought the idea, and wrote a prescient letter in 1937 about their collective bargaining powers, foretelling their disastrous impact on the country.  He was ignored.

Over the decades since WW2, the power and reach of public service unions have grown through their incestuous relationships with elected politicians who became their handmaidens and co-conspirators in bamboozling private sector taxpayers (to the extent we pay government employees their salaries, we also pay their taxes).  And so these cancerous unions grew until they metastasized through all levels of government, its agencies, bureaus, and schools.  Today the active military is still free of their influence, but don’t hold your breath.

The spread of this cancer in our public infrastructure has recently been detailed by Philip Howard, chairman of the non-partisan, non-profit Common Good (commongood.org).  It is a shocking tale of unions whose leaderships and members have bilked jurisdictions out of hundreds of millions, and run up unfunded liabilities into the hundreds of billions (California’s current obligation is over a half a trillion dollars).

The methods the unions have taught their members include ‘spiking’ salaries and going on disability just before retirement.  We actually pay for them to take college courses on how to game retirement benefits.  For example, 82% of senior CHP officers are ‘disabled’ in their last year of employment.  Union rules tie the hands of government and school administrators, and sky-rocket operating costs.  In the last ten years the LA school district succeeded in firing just five out of their 33,000 teachers at a cost of $3.5 million.  And such stories are the norm in thousands of agencies, bureaus, towns, and counties across the country.

In sum, today almost every busted government budget can be traced back to the excesses squeezed out by public service unions with the help of their toady elected politicians.  And as recent occupations and elections show, the European disease has now fully riddled our public sector, with its inevitable devastation soon to follow.  Philip Howard advises – “America should ban political contributions by public unions, by constitutional amendment if necessary. Government is supposed to serve the public, not public employees.   America must bulldoze the current system and start over. Only then can we balance budgets and restore competence, dignity and purpose to public service."

George Rebane is an entrepreneur and a retired systems scientist in Nevada County who regularly expands these and other themes on KVMR and Rebane’s Ruminations (www.georgerebane.com).

Posted in , ,

91 responses to “The (inter)national cancer of public service unions”

  1. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    Greg, It’s not worth responding to you. You are a dinosaur intent on simply eating time.

    Like

  2. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Another pithy one liner from Frisch. And here I was actually expecting a thoughtful response.
    At least you chose well for your parting shot; The Fox and the Grapes is one of Aesop’s best.

    Like

  3. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Hmmm, I wonder what that “dinosaur” quip was meant to infer. Age? I’m apparently both younger and better looking than Frisch, with a kid in college and years away from SS and Mediscare. Ideas? Nothing is more tired than the same-old arthritic progressive old-tyme religion, and cAGW alarmism is currently flying south for the winter as fast as it can.
    Steve, you jumped in to this threat with your usual snooty content-free one liners and not once back up your cheap shots with solid content and reasoning, just empty posturing. A dinosaur following this old adage:
    “When in trouble or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout”
    How’s the SB Council doing these days, Steve? I’m so looking forward to seeing the current IRS filings.

    Like

  4. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Checking, Frisch has been a busy bee posting tomes on subsidized solar energy in the safe cocoon over at the Former Union Editor’s sandbox.
    A great place to hide if you don’t want to discuss the issues in an open forum.

    Like

  5. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    Now why would you want to see our IRS filings? I think you will be disappointed.
    I can assure you that we are 100% up to date, 100% legal, uphold the highest standards for a non-profit organization including a voluntary set of transparency and accountability principles endorsed by the Independent Sector, do independently audited financial statements every year, require conflict of interest statements from our board members, and file all of our paperwork on time and thoroughly with all the appropriate agencies. If one wishes to look at past filings they can simply go to the California Attorney General’s web site or the Secretary of State’s web site, where everything up to 2009 is posted. We have of course filed 2010, but neither agency has posted them yet. Our data will be available there when the State catches up.
    But here is what they will show:
    In 2010 SBC had revenue of $ 2,066,000 (up significantly from 2009)
    We had expenses of $ 1,994,000
    Just over $100,000 of our revenue came directly from public sector sources mostly for contract work (about 10%)
    About $1,900,000 of our revenue came from private sector sources, the vast majority of it for contract services provided. The remainder is membership and donor revenue.
    About $800K of our revenue is pass through for a combination of contractors and energy efficiency incentives.
    Our largest expenses are salary, wages and benefits, which is normal in an organization managing contract work.
    We filed no lobbying expenses, because nothing we did in 2010 qualified as lobbying–public education regarding public policy issues does not qualify as “lobbying” under IRS code unless it is “directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office.” Public and voter education efforts on behalf of a specific issues qualify under IRS code as “political activity” and require no special filing. We of course thoroughly vetted this legally before our engagement in the Proposition 23 campaign. No direct lobbying expenses in 2011 either.
    We plan to file lobbying expenses in 2012, because we will be taking specific positions on specific legislation (mostly around governance reform issues) and asking legislators to vote a specific way.
    I made about $100K last year, and I am not one bit embarrassed about it. I work about 65-70 hours a week, and manage 24 projects with a staff of 26 right now. Our staffing goes up and down depending upon what projects we are working on.
    SBC has almost no debt–about $8K for a company vehicle which is used by the entire staff when anyone travels more than 50 miles from Truckee (to save on the IRS milage re-imbursment payments).
    I can tell you what 2011 will show when we file in next spring…it will show that our revenue and expenses grew by another 30%, to about $2,800,000 and $2,700,000 respectively (our staff keeps a pretty tight watch over these things so we can tell you where we are with less than 1% any day of the week).
    Anything else you want to know? Our organization is committed to sustainable business practices, which means we believe in sharing information.
    I think it is humorous when you, and Todd, and a myriad of others here, attack non-profits for their activities. Non-profit organizations have significantly higher standards for transparency, accountability, reporting and enforcement of conflict policies than any other business in the country (SEC filings would be the notable exception).

    Like

  6. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    Oops that should read ‘about 5%” up above.

    Like

  7. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    Really Greg? Snooty content free one liners? Here are my posts:
    “So, I am sure all of you guys are supporting Governor Brown’s proposals to reform the public pension system as a good first step toward getting this problem under control, right?
    Posted by: Steve Frisch | 12 November 2011 at 08:59 AM”

    “I was thinking more of this Brown, Mikey:
    http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_19289626
    Posted by: Steve Frisch | 12 November 2011 at 09:26 AM

    George, I just worked 45 minutes on a 11 point detailed reply and lost all the content, any chance of recovery?
    Posted by: Steve Frisch | 12 November 2011 at 04:10 PM

    I thanked Russ and George for their technical advice:
    “Russ and George, thanks for your helpful advice.

    Posted by: Steve Frisch | 12 November 2011 at 05:59 PM

    Then you posted this:
    “Some folks confuse quantity with quality. One well supported point devoid of personal attack would be a breath of fresh air from any of the usual suspects.

    Posted by: Greg Goodknight | 12 November 2011 at 05:50 PM”

    And I replied thus:
    “Gee Greg, you asked a question, and an important one. I regret that I can’t answer a complex public policy issue with a pithy one line response. Perhaps we should acknowledge the limits of blogging and bloggers attention spans when we discuss these issues.

    Posted by: Steve Frisch | 12 November 2011 at 05:58 PM”

    “Gee Steve, I thought you’d know the difference between making one good point supported by facts and reasonable logic and coughing up a “pithy one line response”. I’d be more impressed by one good limited post that actually took a 45 minute eternity to research and write than 11 points averaging about 4 minutes per… one minute of research and 3 minutes writing. Not much there there.
    My expectation is that your “eleven point response” was more dodging and obfuscation; what a shame it was lost to the four winds.

    Posted by: Greg Goodknight | 12 November 2011 at 06:53 PM”

    Then you followed up by needling me about having a life and I responded by calling you a “dinosaur”
    So I ask, what do you mean by ‘snooty content free one liners”? It seems that to anyone reading the record you would be the one escalating the normal cycle of insult and incivility.
    Which just leads me to ask, “who is the jackass here?”

    Like

  8. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Looking forward to the 2011 filings, one never knows what one will find. With friendlies in Sacramento and Washington I’m not surprised of your claims of growing overall revenues. How is membership and donor revenue trending?
    Nice you got a China vacation out of it this year.
    “Sustainability” is such an interesting topic. Since the SBC was formed, the proven reserves of traditional fuel has skyrocketed; we have centuries of coal and natural gas, with the US leading the world’s inventory. The only thing left of your “sustainability” issue is that CO2 tipping point, which, if you follow even the mainstream Climate journals, you’ll know the latest CO2 sensitivity estimate is about 2 degrees for a doubling. The last IPCC estimate was 3.0 degrees, and they got that not by a careful derivation from measurements, but rather an averaging of the wildly varying choices made by the climate modelers to make their results fit the records kept by the likes of the UAE Climategaters and the millionare bureaucrat ‘scientist’, Hansen of NASA-GISS.
    As knowledge of the effects of oceans, clouds and solar magnetic effects, I expect the best guess for CO2 sensitivity will keep dropping, down to about the 1 degree for a doubling that is predicted by classic thermodynamics. It is a shame in a way; the positive feedback models were developed as a possible geoengineering to avert the next ice age, but we’re not going to be able to SUV out of that one, whenever it might be.
    The current economy has real problems; making it more expensive for everyone to heat and light their homes and workplaces is not the answer.
    You might want to correct the record, I don’t think I’ve attacked “non-profits for their activities”. I question your non-profit, it’s activities, and yours, because of your antics in Nevada County politics and in print. I don’t think you’ve seen me “attacking” any others.

    Like

  9. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    Nice job ignoring the issues you brought up about what you hope to find in our filings and turning the issue back on climate change! Smart people are going to debate that issue for centuries, although I find it amusing that all the debate seems to be here and in the UK and Australia, all places where Fox News and oil companies are strong and the existing power structure has a vested interest in maintaining industry dominance. We can just agree to disagree on that one; and 97% of the scientific community is on my side!
    I think I just thoroughly proved you have absolutely no reason to question my non-profit, its activities or mine , which anyone who wants to can go see for themselves with a simple review of public records. I think the problem here is that what you think you know about non-profit law and what you actually know about non-profit law are continents apart. If you think otherwise, make your claim buddy. otherwise you are pissing up a rope.

    Like

  10. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    By the way, you going to respond to the pretty clear proof up above that I acted like a saint and you were the jackass?

    Like

  11. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Yes, Steve, you are the jackass here. Your very first post was snooty and misleading; you’ve completely failed to justify Brown’s so-called state pension reform being any sort of step towards solving the state’s problems, it’s just as far as he can go without losing his biggest contributors, state and local employee unions.
    I’m sure I’d run out of fingers and toes counting the number of times you’ve left in a huff, uttering something along the lines of a Cartmanesque “screw you guys, I’m going home” like your 12:09PM this afternoon, only to come back more sooner than later. In a binary representation, 20 fingers and toes would be more than enough.
    Of course, by 1130 this AM, you’d already written something like 500 words waxing eloquently about solar shenanigans over at the FUE sandbox, so I wasn’t needling you about having a life, I was needling you about your lack of follow-through here.

    Like

  12. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    My very first post was a question Greg….and just because I said you were not worth responding to does not mean I am going away…whenever one of you makes a statement so outrageous or inaccurate that it must be countered you can count on a Mike, or a Ben or a Steve or a Steve call you out on it, and when we are gone there will be someone else to make the case, because what your crew believes is so stupid that it engenders response.
    I have no responsibility to respond to you; you never stays on point, serially changes the subject, and escalates every conversation with anyone who disagrees with you into a flame war. I have zero respect for your needs here.
    I love the way you disparage Todd though; pity you don’t see that you are just Todd with a slightly expanded vocabulary.

    Like

  13. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Steve, 97% of the climate community agrees with me… yes, it’s gotten warmer since the little ice age, and yes, mankind has an effect on climate. Those are the two questions that 97 or 98% claim is based on, and I pass the test. It was nothing about CO2 and the details of the positive feedback hypothesis. Flimsy research used by even less solid science ignorami among the political class. Just how much science did you take as a state college polisci major?
    You brought up cAGW by hoisting the “sustainability” petard, which came into being at the UN subsequent to the IPCC formation. No, the ‘debate’ won’t last five years; the claims for runaway warming are freezing up faster than most dreamed a couple years ago, and won’t last past the next big financial calamity. It’s one thing to risk spending everyone into the poorhouse, it’s another thing to risk starving and freezing everyone already there.
    The poor are hungry? Let them eat corn ethanol and bio-diesel.

    Like

  14. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    See , you are back on climate change–I smoked you on who was an ass first, smoked you on the transparency and accountability of my organization issue, and smoked you on obfuscating –I never brought climate change up here–look at the posts above!
    How many logic classes did you have at Harvey Mudd? Perhaps a little more time spent on getting along well with others might have prepared you for civil society.

    Like

  15. George Rebane Avatar

    Administrivia – Jeff Pelline’s ad hominem droppings and related comments deleted.

    Like

  16. Jeff Pelline Avatar
    Jeff Pelline

    The truth hurts, doesn’t it George? I heard that you’re in line to be our Planning Commissioner if Sue McGuire wins re-election. That alone is going to sink the poor woman! LOL.

    Like

  17. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Wow, thew usual suspects are doing their thing all over the place. No wonder no one likes Pelline. What a bore.
    SteveF, Greg smoked you man. No one here believes anything you say because you have fibbed so much on most issues. Supply the exact links to your reports so we can verify your numbers.
    You three or four liberal posters are being backed into a corner you all made. You are just not believable and you have kn clout in the County. Too bad, so sad.

    Like

  18. George Rebane Avatar

    JeffP 559pm – And pray what “truth” might that be? And where in the world would a journalist like you be getting truth, let alone such hot rumors about what Sue McGuire might do upon her “re-election”?

    Like

  19. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    Sorry Toddy, I supplied the information for where you can find the appropriate documents. Anyone who wants to look will see i was 100% truthful. You will have to go there yourself.

    Like

  20. Barry Pruett Avatar

    Well George, if Sue McGuire is going to appoint you to the planning commission in 2017 upon her re-election that would certainly be a scoop!

    Like

  21. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Sorry SteveieF, you did not supply anything but hot air. Your style s well known, cut and paste bloviate and obfuscate. Supply the links, the exact links or be considered simply a fibber.
    I did talk with some folks that were at the meetings on NH2020 you supposedly mediated. They said you were a complete joke and to this day laugh about t. I had forgotten.

    Like

  22. George Rebane Avatar

    Agreed Barry. JeffP’s brand of journalism is unique in many ways, and that scoop(let?) is certainly one of them.

    Like

  23. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Pelline should be in charge of the homeless program here in Nevada City. He can wear his PJ’s and allow the cold and hungry to use his yacht for shelter. Oh, that was last year. Sorry.

    Like

  24. Jeff Pelline Avatar
    Jeff Pelline

    Looking forward to 2012!

    Like

  25. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Jeff Ackerman’s abilities as a reporter and as the Publisher make Pelline look like a cub reporter for Grit.

    Like

  26. Jeff Pelline Avatar
    Jeff Pelline

    And how is that comment relevant to the discussion? Notice how George is selective in his deletions. This blog is a joke.

    Like

  27. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    Todd, do your own homework you lazy putz. I told you exactly where to look.

    Like

  28. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    tevieF, you have not supplied anything of relevance. For a guy who bloviates page after page here of meaningless stuff, you sure are lazy when asked to provide proof.
    For Pelline, you simply left your comment open ended and silly and I filled in your blanks. I can’ believe you were actually hired here as a cub reporter.

    Like

  29. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    So, I am sure all of you guys are supporting Governor Brown’s proposals to reform the public pension system as a good first step toward getting this problem under control, right?
    Posted by: Steve Frisch | 12 November 2011 at 08:59 AM
    Checking the dictionary:
    as·i·nine
    adj.
    1. Utterly stupid or silly: asinine behavior.
    2. Of, relating to, or resembling an ass.
    Not even Steven Frisch bothered to try to support the Brown pension proposal; it is indefensible as a “good first step”, and you didn’t even bother trying. This was your first post in this thread, Steve, and you were intentionally being an ass. You’re good at it, too, but you did get smoked.
    Here’s a WSJ editorial on it, just days old:
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204528204577010070865554042.html
    The Mercury News thinks unions won’t do any better than the Brown plan:
    http://www.mercurynews.com/opinion/ci_19259393
    Here’s Dan Walters today:
    http://www.sacbee.com/2011/10/28/4012968/dan-walters-is-jerry-browns-pension.html
    Like Walters, I doubt Brown is willing to fight his core support to get even this passed, and it won’t fix what’s broken.

    Like

  30. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Frisch is a simple bomb thrower and nothing more. He won’t even place the link to his legal documents because he can’t back anything up he spews. But, we all know Jerry Brown better than Jerry knows Jerry and nothing will happen with the pensions as Greg has stated. We have a trillion dollar problem and a 5 billion solution. That isn’t even a decent return in interest! The problem is two fold. On going pressure from all levels of government to fund the pensions and a change in the rules of setting them. Nothing will happen.

    Like

  31. Ben Emery Avatar

    How dare workers want to have a say in the work place, how dare they!

    Like

  32. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    BenE, with your above statement (7:48) it is obvious you have never owned or run a business with employees. There are thousands of pages of can-do’s and can’t-do’s just in California laws. Go look in the lunch room of your place of work (if you have one) and read all the posters legally required to be placed on the walls. Workers comp, SSA of which a employer pays 1/2, withholding and even down to how much a person can lift regarding weight of an object. So, it appears that once again you are bloviating on an issue you have no knowledge about. Liberalism is a mental disorder is a book which explains the malady.

    Like

  33. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Todd, no need to exaggerate; it’s a half-trillion dollar problem.
    Ben, your asinine (definition above) comment is off-base. This isn’t about ‘workers having a say in the workplace’, this is a case where the management the workers paid to get elected made pension and retirement healthcare agreements that the state knows is unsustainable. They probably hoped that property values would continue rising ad infinitum, and even if they didn’t, someone in the future would figure out how to fix it.
    If you read the editorials, there will be at least one proposition that will fix it by changing the deal current employees will get. Jerry Brown didn’t fix surging property taxes when he had the chance, and prop 13 was the result, though he was sort of against it. It doesn’t take a big stretch of the imagination to wonder if he’ll punt to the initiative process on this one, with a plausible (to some) denunciation of the initiative that will fix the problem without him having to anger his union constituency directly.

    Like

  34. George Rebane Avatar

    GregG 1119am – I think you nailed it on Moonbeam punting us an initiative on fixing public pensions. Given the recent record of Californians in the voting booth, I’m not sure that the unions’ cash will not carry the day and get them to render an insane verdict to resolve our unfunded $500B question. Ohio is the most recent poster child on the unions’ ability to convince the sheeple.

    Like

  35. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    After 13 passed, over Brown’s ‘objections’, he became a born again Howard Jarvis acolyte in implementing 13. Watch for the re-run.
    If, by some reason, a proposition that fixes the problem fails at the ballot box, the next stop will probably be the adult supervision of receivership, probably not the legacy Brown wants; he’ll need to lose his job to a Republican before that happens.

    Like

  36. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Lest it be lost, the SBC’s Frisch didn’t answer the question about the trend of membership and donation revenues. Since he promised to answer any questions, I’m sure it was a simple oversight.

    Like

  37. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Now now Greg, that is too much to ask of the rent seeker. Pressure!

    Like

  38. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    “My very first post was a question Greg”
    Yes, it was. A snooty, asinine one.
    “So, I am sure all of you guys are supporting Governor Brown’s proposals to reform the public pension system as a good first step toward getting this problem under control, right?”
    Posted by: Steve Frisch | 12 November 2011 at 08:59 AM
    snooty: (adj) Showing disapproval toward others, esp. those considered to be of a lower social class.
    Synonyms:
    arrogant – supercilious – haughty – conceited – stuck-up
    When you “asked” that question, a reasonable observer would have believed you thought it was a good first step, and the folks you were sending a dig to would be against it for no other reason but ugly partisanship. Instead, you got substance. If you have a $500 BILLION dollar liability you have no identified resource to pay off, cutting that down to $495 BILLION isn’t the answer. You’ve danced around any substantive response, so you resorted to your usual playbook. Attack.
    You know, sarcastic might have been slightly better as a description, as is asinine, but, having checked, “snooty” also fit just fine. I think the problem is that insulting folks he doesn’t like or agrees with comes so naturally that Steven Frisch doesn’t even know he’s doing it.
    Steven Frisch, you started in this thread with a one sentence, sarcastic, asinine, snooty remark. And then whined when you got hit back. Nut up or shut up.

    Like

  39. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I have posted a article on SBC and Frisch’s 990’s on my blog. Looks like his posts here are BS.
    http://sierradragonsbreathe.blogspot.com/2011/11/sbc-990s-2002-2009-you-decide-if-they.html

    Like

  40. George Rebane Avatar

    ToddJ – Excellent. I think this should be pursued on your blog.

    Like

Leave a comment