“… they can only build the gates so high.”

September 2011
S	M	T	W	T	F	S
	1	2	3
4	5	6	7	8	9	10
11	12	13	14	15	16	17
18	19	20	21	22	23	24
25	26	27	28	29	30

OUR LINKS

YubaNet
White House Blog
Watts Up With That?
The Union
Sierra Thread
RL “Bob” Crabb
Barry Pruett Blog

“… they can only build the gates so high.”

24 September 2011

George Rebane

On these pages I have predicted that there will be blood in the gutters when the government destroys the economy (which they insist on characterizing as “the private sector”) to a level where new jobs are non-existent and savings are gone. The usual liberal response in the attendant comment streams has been that ‘there goes that right wingnut again, fomenting violence’. A reader reminds me that now we have the Progressive Poster Boy Michael Moore (here) joining Mayor Bloomberg to advise his audiences of such a future. (It appears that they just didn’t know how to read the obvious tea leaves very well.)

Consequently, the guilty parties who must immediately be brought to account are the – wait for it – corporations and the ‘rich’. Monies must be extracted from them using the government’s force majeure in sufficient amounts to redistribute it either through transfer payments or state sector/selected jobs. And we are assured that there are no gates high enough behind which corporations and the rich can hide to keep out an avenging government of the ‘peepuhl’ when these use “street demonstrations and civil disobedience to make their voices heard.”

So Moore’s advice is to turn on the screws, and “deal with it non-violently now.” In his social program for the country he definitely sees a Bolshevik type of ending, and tells us that he would like to avoid achieving that end through Bolshevik means.

This is the kind of call-to-arms that is going on the airwaves from the liberal lamestream (see union videos from Wisconsin, Ohio, Seattle). In the meantime the administration’s mental midgets are assuring everyone that they don’t see a double-dip coming as long as we pass the huge tax increases of the latest stimulus (aka American Jobs Act) that President Obama wants to pile on to the previously passed new taxes, fees, and regulations already in the pipeline. All of this is, of course, scheduled to land on us after the 2012 election so as “not to distract” the voters in making their decisions.

As I’ve stated unequivocally before, I believe we have entered Depression2. Neither party has a plan to bring us out of it quickly, and one party is already working their plan to make Michael Moore’s warnings come true.

Posted in Agenda 21, Current Affairs, Our Country

48 responses to ““… they can only build the gates so high.””

D. King

24 September 2011

Bill Shultz of Red Eye interviewed some of the protestors in the Wall Street ” Day of Rage”.
http://thedc.com/oSjCO8#ooid=BuM3d0MjosefzXiY58dL5cFtK241MeUE

LikeLike
Paul Emery

24 September 2011

George
Who does have a viable plan in your opinion?

LikeLike
George Rebane

24 September 2011

PaulE – no one has a plan to pay off the country’s financial obligations in today’s dollars. Republicans describe a plan to minimize the pain of our recovery. Democrats have a plan that maximizes the pain, and it is already in motion to fundamentally change the country as they have promised.
But then, it all depends on what you want as the desired outcome.

LikeLike
Todd Juvinall

24 September 2011

They will monetize the debt, or do what Germany did in the 20’s in their overnight move. They just said the mark was worth X and the world accepted it.

LikeLike
Russ Steele

24 September 2011

Michael Moore will visit Nevada City in October and bring his message to the people on KVMR . Maybe we can all take to the streets and give him a taste of his own prescription.

LikeLike
Todd Juvinall

24 September 2011

He needs a membership in Weight Watchers (the left is also trying to make ugliness a immutable trait for lawsuits under the ADA). Why are they so chubby over there on the left? LOL. It might be good to have a bunch of us on the right shoving a microphone in his face and ask him why he hates the country so much.. Good idea Russ.

LikeLike
JZimm

24 September 2011

George,
I keep getting sucked in. One comment and done, I won’t promise but will try extremely hard. I know this is pointless but to read your nonsense leaves me no choice but to call you out on it.
It is the privatization over our government that has caused this crisis in the US and globally. Five billion in lobbying efforts brought us the Gramm Leach Bliley 1999 and then Commodities Futures Modernization Act. These two pieces of lobbyist written legislation put the US government/ taxpayer on the hook for Wall St reckless behavior. Another socializing the risks/ losses while privatizing the profits, good business plan.
Both political parties are owned by the financial sector. The financial sector assures itself with appointments to heads of world organizations such as IMF or World Bank. To make the robbery of public coffers legal these banking manufactured crisis are saved by the very entities that were the creators of the crisis. Austerity measures is the deal to receive more fiat money created from nothing with huge amounts of interest lumped on that needs to be paid on the backs of the citizens of these nations. Don’t have money maybe you could exchange some of the monetary debt with payments with oil or rare minerals.
I have been speaking and warning of our current situation for years but it has been yourself and others from both major partisan teams creating a division between the electorate ensuring our governments role of taking on the external costs of business while the private sector keeps the profits. I withdrew my consent to belong to either of those teams long ago, which allows me to see problems for what they are and how they actually were created without complete spin. It is no surprise to me to see corporate profits hit record highs as the economy for the productive American economy spirals into a depression.
http://www.benemery.org/financial-market-reform.html
Have a good day and hopefully I will not get sucked in again.

LikeLike
Brad Croul

24 September 2011

The TEA mantra of less taxes/smaller government sounds good. But now, the Defense Dept. recently claimed the nation’s unemployment rate will go up by one percent if their budget is cut and they have to lay off hundreds of thousands. Oh well, these people in the military industrial, national security, anti-terrorism complex need to get real jobs anyway.
TEA advocates do not care about blood in the streets, all they care about is less taxes.
In the video, Bloomberg, not Moore, said we will have an “American Spring” with blood in the streets if more jobs are not available. Employees need employers. If big business wants to sit on a trillion dollars in cash and not hire, all the while paying themselves outlandish salaries and bonuses, then government must hire these jobseekers to keep them from rioting in the streets.
But the TEA says no more taxes so no more government jobs. TEA patriots, by all their stall tactics and bickering, will crash the economy.

LikeLike
George Rebane

24 September 2011

JZimm – your clarified vision demonstrated by the non-partisan point to Democrat congressional contender Ben Emery is touching.
Nevertheless, you have not seen me endorse Bush2’s or anyone else’s bailout programs on RR. Were you a regular (or more careful?) reader, you might have picked up von Mises’ ‘Do nothing, sooner!’ admonition repeated throughout these pages.
Now that we have that straightened out, the question that begs you or anyone else of an answer is, ‘What is your plan forward from here?’ I too have been warning of this for years, but sunk costs don’t count.
BradC – apparently you did not watch the MMoore video.

LikeLike
Ben Emery

24 September 2011

George,
This is Ben Emery not JZimm, who is JZimm?

LikeLike
Ben Emery

24 September 2011

George,
Public Financing of Campaigns is the biggest step towards removing the corruption out of our government. We have discussed my ideas of reversing the American economic woes but here are some consolidated ideas.
http://www.benemery.org/economic-reform.html
Ben Emery

LikeLike
Steve Frisch

24 September 2011

Moore is right about one thing, the history of America is that when there is blood in the streets it’s usually the upper class that either loses or reforms in the end.

LikeLike
Brad Croul

24 September 2011

George, yes I watched it. Moore said it was not himself predicting blood in the streets, it was Bloomberg. That is why Moore was saying let’s try to fix it before it gets to that point.

LikeLike
Todd Juvinall

24 September 2011

Public financing does not work. Instant disclosure of any amount over 99 bucks and then let the people decide.

LikeLike
George Rebane

24 September 2011

BenE – perhaps you can explain why the moniker on your 329pm got labeled as from JZimm (see above).
BradC – Moore’s acceptance of Bloomberg’s pronouncement was tacit and unambiguous, that’s why he suggested the remedy because he concurred with Bloomberg’s premise. Capice?

LikeLike
Brad Croul

24 September 2011

People keep screaming about high taxes but at least they have the privilege of paying taxes. What is the alternative- having no job, no money, no opportunity? The people needing to be helped by your tax money are not driving Ferraris, they are having trouble paying for food. The problem is that there is so much money flowing through government coffers with inadequate oversight and so many greedheads out there trying to work the system that it is spoiling the whole apple barrel.

LikeLike
D. King

24 September 2011

Bloomberg / Moore-on
Here is mayor Numbnuts blaming the Time Square bomb on 60% of the American people who didn’t like having Obamacare crammed down throats.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdbUwlM4bK4
So, Moore should watch what he calls for.

LikeLike
Greg Goodknight

24 September 2011

Public financing is politicians voting themselves the wherewithall to run their next campaign.
A wretched idea.

LikeLike
Scott Obermuller

24 September 2011

Public financing of political campaigns is completely un-Constitutional. The folks that call for it have provided no details on how it would work, other than some union backed candidate that can come up with a quick amount of signatures. I say anyone can give anything as long as it’s public. Elected officials should first honor the Constitution and our vaunted free press should try to do their job. It would help if the electorate was even vaguely aware of the issues and paid attention to what was happening with their money. A republic depends on an educated, moral population. We seem to have neither. What we have now is a brain-washed rabble, screaming for “our rights” with no conception of what their rights are. And we have a president that has called our Constitution “fatally flawed”. I do see bloodshed in the future. When the rabble are hungry, they have always turned to violence. This will be no different. Sad.

LikeLike
George Rebane

24 September 2011

Cato discusses Principal Agent Theory and argues rational voter ignorance –
“Rather than being informed and active citizens, voters find it rational to be ignorant about the political issues around them and the impact policies might have. Even a civic-minded person may not find it worthwhile to become an informed voter when the chance of personally influencing outcomes at the ballot box is infinitesimal. One might hope that the press would take more of an interest in such matters; but given that their readers have only minimal interest in political affairs, the tendency of the media is to concentrate on political trivia rather than the deeper, underlying issues.
Studies in the United States and Europe confirm the existence of massive voter ignorance, irrespective of educational achievements and social class. In the United States, for example, as many as 70 percent of voters can’t name either of their state’s senators, and the vast majority cannot estimate rates of inflation or unemployment within 5 percent of actual levels. It is this rational ignorance of public policy that enables politicians to maintain policies that injure voters’ interests. The ability to rely on a steady stream of tax revenue creates a “soft budget constraint.” This, in turn, enables politicians to act opportunistically either to their own benefit or those of special interests rather than for the public good. In the latter case, politicians tend to opt for policies that concentrate highly visible benefits on organized groups (such as farmers) while dispersing the costs widely, across the unorganized groups who ultimately pay the pricetaxpayers.”
http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/v33n5/cprv33n5-1.html

LikeLike
Russ Steele

24 September 2011

A quick review of the IP addresses might tell us who J Zimm is.

LikeLike
D. King

24 September 2011

This is all too much for me George; I need to get lost in mindless entertainment.
You know, some kind of fantasy / pretend world with the pregnant man ect…
I just don’t know what CATO is on about!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqjsAerlAys

LikeLike
George Rebane

24 September 2011

Principal Agent Theory examines the efficacy of selected agents (e.g. politicians, corporate directors) who serve their principals (e.g. voters, shareholders). Due to the existence of multiple commons (cf. Garrett Hardin) in structures of governance and corporate management, the principal agent paradigm often falls apart wherein the agent no longer serves the principal. Shareholders have ready and rapid alternatives when they are no longer served. Voters do not, since elections are infrequent and no alternative forms of governance are available. In our republic, transiting to a democracy, many argue that we are now in that stage of social evolution .

LikeLike
Ben Emery

24 September 2011

Public Financing of Elections is an investment in a government that is controlled by the people.
Not any kook can come in off the streets and get funding. Signature and small donation requirements will weed out the serious vs those who are trying to exploit the system. Those here who have run for public office or worked on some kind of campaign understand that getting signatures takes patience and being reasonable. Within our current system our elected officials spend much of their time fundraising for their next campaign, which means going for the easy big money is the best way of going about this process. It also means they rely on lobbyists more and more to write and explain the legislation going to committee. Who has big money ready to invest into political parties and candidates? Big money special interests, which include wealthy businesswomen/ men, large corporations, entire industries, and unions. When any one of these institutions or entities funds/ backs a candidate or party there are major strings attached. Eliminate the need for these strings and would could eliminate much of the waste in our government thus reducing its size. Decentralization is the key to a healthy economy and society.

LikeLike
Ben Emery

24 September 2011

D King,
It is about saying trusting our government in the hands of everyday people is dangerous because they are too simple minded to understand such complex issues and problems. It is saying that we should leave it up to the privileged who can afford good educations and study how government should work. I think I posted Thomas Jefferson’s opposition to this idea with a letter to John Adams.
I have called George out on in his writings is his absolute disregards for any opinions/ ideas of the founders that counter his interpretation of their intent. There was great debate among those who fought the revolution, framed the type and form of government we shall create, and the Constitution that were the documents outlying the limited powers this government should be allowed. If you want to read amazing thrillers and action read the stories and letters of the era.

LikeLike
George Rebane

24 September 2011

BenE – we have read the same “thrillers”. Nowhere in there did I see any statement of hope that ignorant people can rule themselves through any form of government known then or now. Their trepidations about the Great Experiment they launched are a matter of record bordering on legend. That is why they were supporters and promoters of education applied in the broadest sense. To disregard those warnings is to disregard their legacy to us.
I happen to believe the evidence is overwhelming that a certain class of politicians has done everything possible to create and franchise the most ignorant electorate in our history for the simple reason that it is their sinecure.

LikeLike
Ben Emery

24 September 2011

George,
I cannot explain the question you put forward at 24 September 2011 at 05:43 PM. I posted like I always do. I didn’t even see the name thing until I read your post to the name. As you well know I don’t shy away from my opinions no matter how much they might differ from your own.

LikeLike
Dixon Cruickshank

24 September 2011

Steve Frisch –
Moore is right about one thing, the history of America is that when there is blood in the streets it’s usually the upper class that either loses or reforms in the end.
BTW Steve – that is you – just say’in

LikeLike
Todd Juvinall

24 September 2011

What BenE fails to acknowledge in his sympathies for public financing is someone still has to make rules. That would be the politicians who will tilt them for self preservation. Public financing in its truest form should allow anyone to run. No rules at all since the public interest is not protected unless the floodgates are totally opened to all. I ran for Assembly in 1992 and I finished third in the Republican primary. I spent the least money and I was third out of seven. I worked my ass off, I put 22000 miles on my personal vehicle in four months. What I learned is in the real world you have to have money and as Obama said during the last days of his race when asked how he was qualifies for the office, he said, well, I ran a billion dollar campaign so I am qualified to lead. Same at all levels of government politics. You are raising money but also meeting people, making friends who’ll help and getting publicity. Public campaigns are the lazy ass way and they don’t work.

LikeLike
bill tozer

24 September 2011

George, that picture you posted to accompany this article makes me want to vomit.

LikeLike
Ben Emery

24 September 2011

Todd,
When you are talking $20 to $200 donations your correct in that you have to work you butt off. Why are campaigns exploding in cost at much faster rate than inflation? McClintock spent $1.7 million against two candidates that didn’t even have $50k between the two of them, why? Because he could. He is a very good politician but or poor representative. I have complimented him on finally getting a back bone and voting against the unconstitutional Patriot Act.
The more money one has to raise the more time they have to spend away from doing their jobs and making deals, which leaves the door open for lobbyist written legislation. I think most people who originally run for office do so because they thing they can make a difference. Living in a bubble where the town is heavily employed with good paying jobs America looks fine. They loose their perspective on how average Americans live and the choices they have to make.
I went to a big two fundraiser last year for governor of California. I sat in the room and chatted with a potential governor one on one not because they cared what I had to say but because I got a seat at the table due to a big donor that had an extra ticket and gave it to me. My idea for a State Owned Bank wasn’t received with enthusiasm. It is a good idea to bring the power to the states to fund their own infrastructure projects with low interest loans keeping the money supply consistent and readily available. The interest goes back into the state coffers paying down the debt. One state does this and they had a 4% unemployment rate in 2010 with the only state surplus in the country and were increasing state spending for the fiscal year of 2011.

LikeLike
Todd Juvinall

25 September 2011

BenE, you have just written what the difference is between you and me and the rest of the people on the right. You are government centric, we are private centric. Thanks for a very clear and concise perspective of the liberal philosophy. That is why your ilk are a smaller and smaller minority. Thank goodness.

LikeLike
Ben Emery

25 September 2011

Todd,
Thank you for having a real discourse on this thread. You’re right, I believe government can and should be used for good and you think government can only mess things up. The government we are living under today is owned and ruled by corporate dominance. So I agree with you on our current government as being bad but I want to create a government that represents the people.
I think you will agree on this but who knows? The USDA has been captured by private industry and this governmental agency now does the bidding for big agriculture pushing out small farmers. This has been growing since the 80’s. That is why Farm Aid was created.
http://farmageddonmovie.com/

LikeLike
Todd Juvinall

25 September 2011

BenE, give us all three governments of the past that you think emulates your view of what a government, a good government would be or was. Not our country but pick any from the historical record.

LikeLike
Todd Juvinall

25 September 2011

Oh, regarding USDA. Please review all the rules and regulations that any farmer, large and small must abide by. Then, when you see the scope of the government rules and the costs, tell us how a small farmer can survive. The facts the EPA have started issuing regulations to control dust (plowing regs for goodness sakes), pig and cow crap and all the other stuff will then give you a clue on the reasons.
Since I am in the construction industry, tell us how all the thousands of government rules have improved the construction of residential housing? I recall a building permit was 25 bucks back in the early sixties (according to my dad whose uncle, my great uncle, Homer Juvinall was chief building inspector for Nevada County, said) and one inspection was required. The permit was also for the septic. Many of those hoses are still around (as are gold rush era Queen Anne’s) and there were no permit’s for them. So, please tell us all how the structure to house people is better for us after we now pay 20 thousand in fees and have 10 inspections?

LikeLike
Ben Emery

25 September 2011

Todd,
Your point is the same as mine. When, where, and who pushed for these rules and regulations? It is big business that is the biggest pusher of these things. The new expensive sprinkler system mandate might have been lobbied for by the industry, what do you think? Look at what GE tried to do with prop 16, basically eliminate all competition.
I remolded our house in CO before we moved back to NorCal. When our house was built and where it was built I don’t think there were almost any building regulations. When I got into the walls I found open electrical junctions connected by electrical tape and a rats nest of wires you wouldn’t believe in the laundry room. The contractor who built the house couldn’t tell me where the septic tank was other than the south side of the house. I had to dig I don’t know how many holes with a shovel since the house was built on a steep grade and I didn’t have the money or access to equipment that could handle it. I finally hit and exit line and had to jam a hose through it until it hit a blockage or 90 degree, dig another hole and repeat. When I got to the tank the input and output lines were pvc and only pieced together no cement. These are only a couple of things that was wrong with the house but things the average person doesn’t even think about when purchasing their future home. Some rules and regulations are needed but today we are inundated with to many at the local levels forcing us to go with the big boys because they can reduce cost through their purchasing power.

LikeLike
Ben Emery

25 September 2011

Todd,
“give us all three governments of the past that you think emulates your view of what a government”
I ask you for the same courtesy of naming three present of past governments outside the US emulates your view of how a government and the society it creates should look like?
My answer is presently the Scandinavian nations are having the most balanced and best results. Here is the latest poll on quality of life and political health of nations. This trend has been happening for awhile, so I will consider it part of history as well. No matter how much you want to try to return to the days of the late 18th Century you cannot. The Great Lakes were the far wild northwest at this point, where land and resources were seemingly endless. The world population at this point in time was just under a billion people, I think we are going to reach 7 billion on the planet this year. Much different planet.
http://www.swedishwire.com/economy/5763-sweden-worlds-best-country-politically-

LikeLike
Todd Juvinall

25 September 2011

So it would appear BenE you would dismantle all the rules and regulations you believe were created by and for big business? Since you say they effected negatively to small business and individual freedom I think we have arrived at some agreement. Regarding your purchase of a crap house. Yes there are people who will do that. In the 70’s here in Nevada County there were a lot of “fly by night” contractors and I ended up being hired to repair their crap. Yet I and many others who were able to withstand those scofflaws built good houses. Most of my dad’s homes he built are still here and in good shape. So, the governments action in response to the scofflaws was to punish all of us with more rules and restrictions and standards, just like we were bad little boys (look at what they did in response to the Angora fire at Tahoe). The government answers any transgression with a rule which affects all. Then we end up with what we have now. Go get a copy of the zoning ordinance, building standards and the law for our local “comprehensive site plans” and then tell me how that has made your life better.

LikeLike
Todd Juvinall

25 September 2011

Oh and BenE. You use the Scandinavian countries as they are today as your response to my question. Quite a dodge. But by you using them you show us a lot. You say we need more rules because the world is billions of people then you chose countries from the north with small populations as your examples, socialist countries and strictly white. Now that also tells us alot about you.
Regarding your claim I want to return to the past or the 18th century America. I never said that at all. I love the time I have been on the planet and I consider myself a very lucky soul to be born here and able to live during this time. I do not long for a past time. America has just been under attack by the left and I and many others are trying to right the ship. There is no way I would trade my life here for another time. I would suggest you stop assuming so much.

LikeLike
Ben Emery

25 September 2011

Todd,
Once again, we are in agreement. Believe it or not, my opinions aren’t very far off from those of conservative RR on many issues. Personally I am a very conservative individual but socially and politically I am very progressive/ populist.
As for the crap houses, I have worked on a number of them in Nevada County as well. I got lucky and landed this private ranch job a couple years before the market crashed.

LikeLike
Ben Emery

25 September 2011

Todd,
Name some countries in the southern hemisphere outside of Australia and Chile that have governments who you would possibly emulate? My answer wasn’t a dodge at all but an honest answer to the question you posed. The dodge was done by yourself. Why? I believe due to the fact that the type of government you think you want is found all over the world, they are called third world nations. My brother lives in one for the last 5 years. The well-to-do live a very decent standard of living but rest of the people live a very hard day by day lifestyle.
There is virtually no government services outside of police, military, and the occasional bribe if you want a permit for a competing business with the gov officials own business. He finds those in the US with anti-government services mentality absurd.
In the rural area’s of the country where he lives there is no running water, no electricity, no paved roads, no hospitals, no police stations, no regulations, and so on. Going hourly wage I think is around 20 cents. My brother is married and lives within the community in something we would call a one room run down shack with no electricity or water . What he does in the country is working with and on access to safe water and sanitation, especially with the young children. Here are some facts about these issue globally. http://water.org/learn-about-the-water-crisis/facts/

LikeLike
Todd Juvinall

26 September 2011

BenE, you have dodges the question I asked and I ave not dodged yours. I explained in detail I prefer America and at least here we are able to try and fix things in our system. Your brother lives in a foreign country so he has to follow their rules. Usually you do what they tell you or lose your head, that is his choice. I read a conflict problem within your mind. You like socialism in the Scandinavian countries where everyone is equal (some more than others) and then complain the third world countries have a rich and poor segment with no middle. Well, America has a middle but I do agree it has been under attack by the left for many years. We on the right want to boot the lefty scofflaws and replace them with people with common sense, that would be conservatives.

LikeLike
Mikey McD

26 September 2011

Michael Moore is a hypocrite. Michael Moore is a terrorist.

LikeLike
Mikey McD

26 September 2011

What the socialist/progressive mind fails to grasp is that by limiting the power of government you also limit the power of lobbyists, special interests, etc.
The SOLUTION IS LESS GOVERNMENT POWER.

LikeLike
Todd Juvinall

26 September 2011

The Gallup Poll has come out and the liberals are on the run. I did a post about the poll this morning. Liberals won’t believe it though.
http://sierradragonsbreathe.blogspot.com/2011/09/gallup-poll-says-49-of-americans-say.html

LikeLike
Ben Emery

26 September 2011

Mickey,
That is what I am saying. Remove the influence of lobbyists and the payback from the government drops.
What we have is a viscous cycle of legal theft of the national treasury and infrastructure.

LikeLike
Ben Emery

26 September 2011

Todd,
Maybe you should post this poll that gives opinions of a whole spectrum of large institutional powers.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/147026/Americans-Decry-Power-Lobbyists-Corporations-Banks-Feds.aspx
When any type of institution grows too big it becomes unaccountable and reckless.

LikeLike
Todd Juvinall

26 September 2011

You posted the poll right? So why do I need to?

LikeLike