Rebane's Ruminations
August 2011
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When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work, because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation. – Peter/Paul Principle (expanded version)

George Rebane

TimeMagazine110815 Time, America’s premier leftwing news magazine, is going all out to cast the conservatives and their ideas as the debt debacle devils in the recent and ongoing debate.  Its 15aug11 issue features articles on the country’s fiscal woes and ‘How the Tea Party Hijacked America’.  The latter is actually a back-handed compliment to the enormous impact that the tea party movement has had and promises to have on our politics.  Michael Crowley writes the featured piece that firmly establishes that the tea party movement is definitely not in Republican control, but instead is a major burr under its blanket.  His leading tagline and takeaway is that the tea party is a “populist movement underestimated by both parties has shown that it’s here to stay.”

This assessment goes a long way to explain away the almost hysterical flood of articles from the progressives that the tea party movement is a rapidly waning force on the country’s political landscape, and that it may self-destruct even before the 2012 election.  This line is picked up in the hinterlands’ blogosphere by the mindless followers of the lamestream.  Meanwhile the founder/leaders of the various tea party factions, like Mark Meckler of the Tea Party Patriots, are getting more and more national air time, as incredulous hosts of TV commentary programs embarrass themselves trying to entice out some slip-of-the-tongue that might connect the tea parties to social issues or the Republican party (see also the comment streams on RR).  Crowley goes on –

In January, Senate majority leader Harry Reid predicted that the Tea Party would soon “disappear.” Now, having pushed Reid’s party into a deal few people would have thought possible a few months ago–trillions in spending cuts, possibly with no new taxes–the Tea Party is more convinced than ever that its facts and its tactics are the right ones. And its influence is hardly waning–something Reid is the first to admit. The Tea Party’s sway in Congress, Reid lamented as the Senate approved the debt deal on Aug. 2, “has been very, very disconcerting … it stopped us from arriving at a conclusion much earlier.”

Barack Obama has long promised a post-partisan environment in the capital. But he never imagined that a minority of Americans would come to play such an outsize role in the public conversation. Polls may show that Americans overwhelmingly want more compromise in Washington, but the Tea Party’s leaders–and the roughly 25% of Americans who consider themselves Tea Party supporters–are primed for more confrontation. The debt fight, believe it or not, is probably just the beginning.

What continues unexamined is the basis for the tea parties being labeled as “rightwing” or “far right” organizations. As confirmed on these pages, those descriptors are supposed to be true just because the left repeats them with increasing frequency, while themselves claiming to be “in the middle”. Crowley’s article sheds no light here.


In the same issue Rana Foroohar in ‘The Wealth Gap Widens’ laments about the widening distribution of wealth and observes that the debt deal “has exacerbated the real problem underlying our woes; the fact that most people not only feel but actually are much worse off than they were three years ago.”  She also correctly points out that during time of want, the richer and smarter are able to better retain their wealth than their less fortunate counterparts – in short, material and educational inequalities increase.  But she fails to connect the dots that this widening continues as long as the economy is down, and the economy stays down as long as government continues Keynesian spending, taxing, and regulatory policies.

Finally, the message that is totally absent from Time is that continued borrowing, along with its ever-growing debt service costs, is the real reason that the US is following the European model down the sinkhole.  And it is the real reason why our credit ratings will continue to be downgraded.  The media, including Time and Fox News, did nothing to enlighten the public on the issues when they kept referring to the ‘default catastrophe’ in every other sentence of their reporting during the recent debt deal debate.  It was the rare bird who dared peep that there was no way that America would default on its current debt service.  Now, after it is apparent that the deal did nothing to salve our fiscal wounds, even Barney Frank (of ‘Fannie and Freddie are healthy’ fame) has come out to tell all that default was never in the cards.

All this said and done, do you notice that there still is not a solution to our economic tailspin to be had from within the Beltway?  We can’t spend our way out, and we can’t tax our way out, and we can’t generate wealth out of growing stacks of regulations (witness EPA’s new ozone regulations).  The socialist sickness is firmly over the land, and it can only be removed by a miracle next November, one that will again unleash the entrepreneurs and businesses to employ people and create new wealth.

Exit question:  Until then, who will be the first to import the notion of ‘austerity’ from across the pond and introduce it into the national lexicon?

[8aug2011 update]  In response to S&P’s downgrade and the world markets’ bloodbath, today President Obama and his progressive minions put the blame squarely on the shoulders of the Tea Party movement.  The Tea Parties are comprised of 20-25% of US voters, and 40% of Americans say they “support” the principles of the movement.  The Tea Parties are made up of hundreds (thousands?) of independent small groups marbled into communities throughout the land.  The Tea Parties have no unified leadership or central control body that marshals and directs their attitudes and voting behavior.  The Tea Partiers are the office or factory worker here, the retired person there, and the lady who runs the hair salon or auto repair shop on the corner – its hard to conceive of a more spontaneous or grass roots movement in American history.

And the Tea Parties have been telling the nation for the last three years exactly how it is headed in the wrong direction and what would happen if the government didn’t change its economic policies.  It was the same people’s voice that also sent new members to Congress who promised Tea Party voters that they would stay true to its principles.

And what was told has now come to be – but after everything that has happened, our growing debt is still totally out of control, and to this day we have NO PLAN TO REPAY OR EVEN REDUCE IT.   Our credit ratings are finally beginning to catch up with and reflect long-established truths.  And, yes Mr President, we Tea Party Americans from every nook and cranny of this exceptional nation take full credit for making every effort to turn our ship of state from the disastrous course to which you are holding it fast.

Posted in , ,

116 responses to “Time at the Tea Party (updated 8aug2011)”

  1. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    I didn’t fabricate this:
    Yesterday I gave a pan handler $1.
    That is one dollar more than Exxon and B of A paid in federal taxes, combined, last year.
    Here’s what the Tea Party has done to the economy:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/keachie/sets/72157627391509622/detail/
    I’ll be working these images, (and a few others) together into a collage on the subject.

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  2. Larry Wirth Avatar
    Larry Wirth

    Hell, Keach, the “very undeserving” already do affect the economy and public safety negatively. You sayin’ they have the capacity to be an even bigger drag?

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  3. bill tozer Avatar
    bill tozer

    Larry and Scott, excellent replies. Glad to see Doug is finally pro-life. It took awhile, but he is finally coming around.

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  4. George Rebane Avatar

    DougK re 1226am – “Here’s what the Tea Party has done to the economy: …” What a delightfully simplistic view of our economy; it must give great comfort and joy. Sen Kerry no doubt shares it with you since he is fishing for some sanctions to silence the TPs.
    Mikey re 934pm – please keep us apprised of how the Mighty Ms Maddow responds to that most reasonable challenge to debate Hoover’s response to the start of Depression1.

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  5. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    So Douglas, you reinforced the economy (gasp – one dollar!) of some one who has chosen to not provide anything of worth to the community and you slam 2 large companies that do provide an immense amount of value to the world as well as thousands of good paying jobs as well as billions in payroll, payroll taxes, property taxes, and goodness knows how many other fees and revenue enhancements for the govt. Also the govt gets plenty in taxes from capital gains from the folks that buy and sell their stock. Just because they don’t collect more taxes from us and hand them to the govt as “corporate taxes”, hardly means they don’t pay any tax.

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  6. Larry Wirth Avatar
    Larry Wirth

    George, slowly percolating up to public consciousness despite the LSM drag is a little matter called “Operation Gunwalker.” I’m pretty sure Holder is toast, but will it reach Obamao? It should, of course, but I’m curious as to your take on this.

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  7. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    Let’s see, are corporations paying some sort of tax on the fact that their employees have paychecks and the corporations are required to withhold some of the money and then forward it to the government? Just what exactly do you call that tax? How much is it? What is it based on?
    “Gee, I was unemployed for five years and I finally got a job that pays $100,000, just like the one I used to have. Do I get to deduct that $500,000 I didn’t earn during those unemployed years over the next five years as “losses from previous years” like a corporation does?”
    I don’t think so.
    When Exxon pays a fine, that’s a “business expense.” When you or I do, it is not a cost of keeping our personhood going despite the mistakes made by our personhood. We get no deductions for life’s mistakes, corporations do. What a racket you are supporting.
    As for providing jobs, without willing workers, you wouldn’t be providing jack’s hat. It take two to tango, and of late the über rich have been trampling everyone else’s feet.
    By your logic of using the taxes provided by employees as taxes paid by them, the workers might just as well start making similar claims about how the corporations couldn’t even exist without them. And that is true, unless they replace the workers with Chinese communists, oh, that’s already happened….?

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  8. George Rebane Avatar

    Good question LarryW. The Gunwalker (aka ‘Fast and Furious’) scandal is definitely growing, and growing towards the White House. From everything that I have read it appears to be the latest high-level conceived federal program to assault Second Amendment rights, based on two since proven lies – 1) that the US is a major source of guns for Mexican cartels, and 2) that lax US gun laws allow dealers to sell thousands of guns to obvious ‘buyers’ who then transfer them into Mexico. It turns out that it’s a lot harder to get stuff into Mexico than out of it, and getting so many of these seeded guns across the border would have required ATF help.
    But the operation went terribly wrong because, as usual, there wasn’t a bright bulb in the government’s string of leading lights that reached from Washington to the Arizona border. The 21jun11 Washington Post cover-up piece was most likely leaked by someone very high in the chain, else we have to start accusing the newspaper of hacking confidential government servers. So now the fed’s wagons are tightly circled with no one even answering FOIA requests. One thing is clear, Fortress Gunwalker has been rapidly erected to protect someone on the Potomac, and not in a dusty district ATF office in Tucson.

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  9. George Rebane Avatar

    DougK, why do you think that all these under-paid and unappreciated workers don’t come together on their own, form a collective corporation where ‘fair wages’ are paid to all, profits are kept low and then equitably distributed, and then compete the bejeezus out of those greedy corporations owned by shareholders?
    It’s all those ‘excess profits’ that go to the blood-sucking capitalists that keep the prices so high. The selfless workers laboring in harmony for the common good should be able to put out a better and cheaper product or service. What’s stopping them?
    Why doesn’t a union do it? They’ve got the workers. Just put a business plan together, go to the government for funding (make it a ‘green company’), and you’re on your way to a socially just future where everyone is happy dancing in the streets. Why not give it a try?

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  10. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George
    What you are proposing is cooperativism and is actually happening in South America and Europe. Workers own their own factories and form Coops with pretty good success. That’s an excellent idea that should be tried more in this country. As companies go broke they can dump the over paid executives, buy the business and run their own company with workers as owners. There is a long history of cooperativism in Japan also. The government doesn’t need to be involved.

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  11. bill tozer Avatar
    bill tozer

    Power to the people and all that stuff. I remember when they burned the BofA in Illa Vista and even later in life had a roommate who was arrested for roasting marshmallows at the smoldering site. Yep, don’t trust anyone over thirty, flower power, smile on your brother. The Summer of Love was replaced within 4 years with the Summer of Streaking. Time marched on and the revolution never came. Unfortunately, some are still stuck in a 60’s time warp rehashing what they learned about economics from their much worshiped Marxist professors. I never wish anyone ill, but do take pleasure knowing these time warpers must lay awake at night angry that a few Fortune 100 companies have more cash in their vaults than the US Treasury. Like a worm burrowing its way through the brains of our sleepless friends, the thought eats at them and sours their whole outlook on life. If only they could get their hands on all that money and distribute it to the poor, then life would be grand. Its so unfair! We must find a way to get our hands on that money! There needs to be more laws! Well, our friends with these worms squirming in their heads have looted our Treasury and now the evil MAN is the logical target of their obsession. Burn down the banks and IBM, seize their vaults of gold coins, haul the CEO’s off to jail and lets all go roast marshmallows. Be sure to wear a flower in your hair.

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  12. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    At 12:04 George goes completely mysterious, at 12:18 he comes back to his senses, somewhat…

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  13. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    here’s my copy and paste talking point for today. Enjoy it with your BofA marshmellows:
    “In 1786, just ten years after the American Revolution, a large group of debt-ridden farmers rose up against local government and the wealthy businessmen who sought to maximize profits from their investments in our new country. Small farmers were losing their income and property to a few dozen powerful landowners. Ironically, “Shay’s Rebellion” scared the founding fathers into lobbying for a stronger government against the threat of unrestrained democracy.
    Today the great majority of us are in the same financial position as those farmers, and it’s just as personal. We own less than our parents. Our college graduate children, burdened with tens of thousands of dollars in loans, can’t find jobs. We worry about our Social Security and Medicare benefits as wealthy Congressmen tell us these long-time programs waste money.
    It gets even more personal:
    (1) If you make $50,000 a year, you’d be making $92,000 if median household incomes had just kept pace with the growth of the economy since 1970. That missing $42,000 goes every year to the richest 1% of Americans.
    (2) If you make between $35,000 and $200,000, you pay more taxes, percentagewise, than the richest 1% of Americans.
    (3) You pay roughly a 6% tax on a pair of shoes. There’s a ZERO tax on financial transactions that make up much of the income for the richest 1% of Americans.
    The only good solution to all of this is increased taxes on the highest incomes. That would tax the individuals and corporations who benefit most from national security, government-funded infrastructure, and public research that has created profitable modern technologies.
    Today, as in 1786, the wealthy and well-connected members of Congress want to make sure they retain control. In 1786 Sam Adams, who had been one of the strongest voices for the Revolution, argued that rebellion in the new Republic should be punishable by death. We need to fight back in 2011 before modern-day Republicans consider Adams’ suggestion.”

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  14. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    “Check out London on CNN just now:
    “You sayin’ they have the capacity to be an even bigger drag?”
    And don’t forget the Galleria fire, it doesn’t have to be political at all, stupid without meds will do.

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  15. bill tozer Avatar
    bill tozer

    Look at CNN? Yep, those riots now are just thieving and looting, plain and simple. Criminal acts of chaos that have nothing to do with the original little protest at a local police station after a shooting. I watched the clip of a young man being helped up from the ground, only to have his “helpers” reach in and steal the contents of his backpack. Bigger boys than the fallen kid, which tells me it is just a bunch of bullies. Guess universal health care did not soothe the savage beast. The number one ethnic group arrested in the Rodney King riots was not blacks, nor whites, nor Mexicans. According to the LAPD, the group with the most arrests was El Salvadorans arrested for looting. Thugs. Liked a LA Times article at the time which the reporter questioned a young man pushing a shopping cart full of new Nikes down the street. When asked if he was doing this because of Rodney King, the lad replied “Rodney King? Who does he play for?” Don’t confuse the seedier side of human nature with political or econmical unrest. The riots of the 60’s were for a different reason. London is more of the Lord of the Flies variety. Kinda like typical lib thinking: “What is mine is mine and what is yours is mine” Or, kinda like a baby if you prefer: I want it and I want it NOW. Gimme, gimme, gimme. Ah, its summer time which is the best time to riot, loot, steal. The riots in London 4 months ago were caused by the gov’t hinting that students may have to pay a wee bit more for their tuition. Talk about entitlement mentality. London today is what we call “flash mobs” here.

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  16. bill tozer Avatar
    bill tozer

    Doug, to be fair, there is unrest brewing in the air and the target is Big Brother. Its been brewing for decades, but reared its ugly head to make front page news in the summer of 2010. Congressmen coming home for their summer break were greeted with angry constituents demanding change of the status quo. The numbers of these amateurish hillbillies grew despite being demonized by the then Speaker of the House, dismissed by main street media, and called racists and rednecks by the out of touch looney left. They did not demand housing, or food stamps, or free rent, or jobs or healthcare or free anything. They demanded that government stop wasteful spending, live within its means, stop making behind closed door deals, and fulfill campaign promises. This unorganized motley crew has put more fear in the heart of the professional politicians than the riots in our urban cities in the 60’s. They cannot be bought, which is most confusing. They won’t go away. They won’t be swept under the carpet. And most frightening is they have their sights on the election of 2012. There is indeed unrest in the air.

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  17. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    The rioters in London were simply looking for a way to fain a few flat screens so they could watch their brethren riot at soccer games.
    Paul, United Airlines employees bought the company many years ago out of a labor dispute I believe. They found out the management was right.

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  18. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Bill
    Yes, my observations are a snapshot and everything can change. Tonights recall in Wisc will be a canary in the goldmine about whether the Republicans overreached to the extent they make the electorate fell uncomfortable. The polls do show support for Obama to be higher than either the Dems of Repubs who are at an all time low as is Congress. The influence of the Tea Party is huge and has changed the national dialog. The classic behavior of a conservatives, however is that they resist change and with that in mind they may feel uncomfortable with too sudden a change of policy so they may return to more traditional Republican roots which may account for the apparent decline of TP support. I hope my definition that the typical behavior of a Conservative being different from the Conservative political dictum is makes sense. One is a predictable behavior and the other is a philisophy.

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  19. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Someone sais the R’s are winning in Wisconsin.
    If conservatives don’t like change Paul, then how do you explain the success of America and its businesses? Change and decision making are required on a moment to moment basis n a business. Do you think that GM and FORD were stuck in a no change mantra? Of course not, they had a different set of designs every year since I was a little kid. You have a imaginary opinion of conservatives. Now take a look at liberals. George Soros for example. He bets against a country’s currency and makes millions and billions an produces nothing. He adequately fits youe views of no change. He has a system of undermining currency and uses it all the time. Some have said he ,made a billion this week betting against the dollar. So, please, tell us all you liberal “makers” of change we can believe in. I’ll go with FORD.

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  20. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    I think you misunderstood my piece. I was trying to differentiate the difference between conservative behavior and the conservative political philosophy. In that sense I can even a liberal organization may exhibit conservative behavior.
    As of 8:45 Republicans have won three recall seats, the Democrats have won 2 and are leading in the third. They need 3 wins to take control of the Wisc Senate and repeal Scott Walkers anti union legislation. Either way, the Dems took the fight to the heart of Republican territory and may win three recalls which is unprecedented. These are districts that have gone Republican for years.

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  21. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Douglas – could you provide the basis of your fantasies posted at 2:08? I know that you “feel” these bullet points are accurate, but some of us like facts. I will admit that the very filthy rich pay the same exact sales tax as the blind woman of color in a wheel chair when buying a new Rolls Royce, but some of the items you listed seem a bit dubious.

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  22. Larry Wirth Avatar
    Larry Wirth

    Keach, you amaze me! Your above comment about George and his thoghts made me wonder how many of the nimrods — you know who you are — on this blog had even heard of gunwalker. Now I know- zero. Get a grip folks, stuff happens all the time.

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  23. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    LarryW, you mean like Iran Contra?
    ToddJ, you mean like the Big Three are still solvent and sell more and better cars than anyone else in the world?
    ScottO, you mean there is sales tax on the buying/selling of stocks, commodities, etc? I don’t think so.
    “There’s a ZERO tax on financial transactions that make up much of the income for the richest 1% of Americans.”
    And here is some fresh meat for you. I’m sure you think it is a GREAT IDEA to have a business person in the White House, and here is my take, from a posting at Pelline’s blog, in response to John Stoos.
    _________________________________________________________________________________________>
    Douglas Keachie
    “And yes there is truth in the concept of those job creators. Having folks invest in plants and equipment that can make things INCREASES our wealth”
    This is ABSOLUTE ELEPHANT EXHAUST!
    What is the first rule of a successful businessman?
    If you think it is “create jobs,” you’ve been marvelously brainwashed.
    The first rule of a successful businessman is to create MONEY.
    Increasing your payroll increase the amount you have to pay out, and DECREASES your money. Unless, of course, you design things such that more workers actually results in way more income, enough to cover the EXPENSE of having those additional workers, AND produce ADDitional profit, enough to make it worth the risk, money and time needed. Currently most USA employers are sitting on their cash and doing NOTHING.
    Speaking of which, where are the cheapest places to find workers skilled just enough to get’r done. It certainly isn’t in the USA. Non Union Dirt Mover can’t find work, despite kissing up to every tea bagger in town.
    Putting a busissman in charge of the While House is the very best way to roll this country over into full automation creating wealth for the very, very few, while 307,000,000 fight over crumbs.

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  24. George Rebane Avatar

    DougK, you are a true gem for these pages – long may you wave. In your estimation, how many like-minded Americans do you see out there among the 307M?
    (BTW, Dirt Mover didn’t look me up, I found him and was damn glad to have a professional to properly move my dirt.)

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  25. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Paul you are a tricky fellow, at least you think you are. You make statements and discuss what we all think and you imply are your heartfelt positions and when we rip it apart you come back with a , oh, you misunderstood me or I was really not serious. Sorry but your debate or discussion technique is quite childish.
    Regarding Wisconsin, as of this post time the R’s are winning 4 democrats 2. Your observation about these being R strongholds is also bogus. Most of the R’s won in democrat districts as evidenced by the returns and voter registration last November. The D’s had a stronghold taken by R’s not the other way. Also, Kapanke was a anomaly a R in a traditional D district who was destined to be booted and has been. Please do a better analysis so you don’t embarrass yourself further.

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  26. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Here is a link to the latest results in Wisconsin.
    http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/127331193.html

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  27. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Todd
    Sorry you can’t understand my drift. I can’t make it any simpler.
    In 2004, Dan Kapanke was elected to the Wisconsin State Senate in 2004 and was solidly reelected in 2008 so he was not likely to be “booted” as an anomaly. Randy Hooper was elected in 2008 as a Republican during a big Democratic year in a narrow victory.

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  28. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    “In your estimation, how many like-minded Americans do you see out there among the 307M?”
    Possibly two.
    And for this evening’s entertainment:
    http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2011/s3269873.htm
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D0VhS8qXT0

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  29. bill tozer Avatar
    bill tozer

    Paul, no clarification necessary. We both know that between 08/09/2011 and 11/0?/2012 is about 4 billion years in political terms. Heck, if this were 8/09/2007, we would be talking about Hillary and a little known Jr. Senator from Illinois would still be about 6 months away from announcing his candidacy on a cold February 2008. Still, I enjoy the speculation. Also, you make a lot of sense to me (whether I agree or not), despite what my dear fellow posters write. There is a difference between having a liberal or conservative or liberation philosophy vs the political actions of party machines. Sometimes a vast difference. I find your points valid and uncontentious. The Tea Party stuck to its guns and went after RHINOs first and foremost. Sen.Bennett of Utah was an automatic shoe-in until he woke up one day and was out on the streets. Yes, the Republican party bosses felt the heat from this populous revolt and most every incumbent of both parties had to start speaking a bit differently, adding a more fiscal conservative tone to their speeches. Even Barney Frank was challenged and had his boyfriend showing up at every appearance of his opponent to heckle and disrupt his gatherings. Barney had to hold back giving money to other campaigns to(God forbid!)spend money on his own reelection. The Time article blames the Tea Party for hijacking America and I find this amusing. The sheer arrogance of Time deriding a populous uprising (gasp!)that kicks professional politicians in the teeth is just what the founders designed and hoped for. I have been waiting for this to occur since I was a lad reading the Golden Fleece awards in Readers Digest mags that everybody seemed to have on their toilet bowl tanks back then. Your points are valid. Life is not all black and white. Many have failed to live up to their moral and philosophical convictions and will continue to do so. I know I have failed many a time.

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  30. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    Dirt could use a few more like you, GeorgeR, spread the word.
    BillT (Treasury Bill? :))
    Agreed, the 2012 election could go a million ways different from what we are aware of today.

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  31. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    Interesting to see that no mention of the Constitution is made at the following site, as they list 15 principles of the Tea Party. Obviously other things are more important to them, including social values.
    http://teaparty.org/about.php

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  32. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    PaulE, give us your analysis now that the R’s have retained the Wisconsin Senate.

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  33. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    California, located right on the Ring of Fire, should be paying more attention to:
    M: Geothermal. It is the only 24/7 renewable. You cannot close a coal plant and use wind or solar. Those two are too intermittent. Geothermal runs 24 hours a day, 365 days a year; however, geothermal carries high drilling risk, and we need to improve our targeting technology to reduce the risk of dry holes. So it carries more risk but is the only 24/7 renewable that can support base-load power.

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  34. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Douglas – You should be a boxer. You dodge and weave with the best. I guess you’re not going to let us in on your secret knowledge of the universe. Of course there is no tax on a lot of financial transactions. I never said there were. The good “working folk” you lefties supposedly support will feel the hit on that one if it’s implemented, but what do care? Just hit the govt up for a bailout on the pensions and stick the wealthy with the tax bill. I do notice that there will be a tax on the profit. The private citizen puts up the risk capital, does all the work and the govt skims the profit. If it’s so easy to make bazillions tax free in the market, why aren’t you doing it?
    BTW – geo thermal has and is being tried, but the returns aren’t what they thought and maintenance is much more than anticipated. “we need to improve our targeting technology to reduce the risk of dry holes.” Well, yes, but it seems that the educational system is more interested in turning out graduates in lesbian native indian studies, and punching holes in the ground is a political no-no with most of the left.

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  35. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Sure Todd
    Actually the Democrats won two of the three seats they thought they had a reasonable shot at. The senate seats elected in 2000 would have been more vulnerable but they, along with the Governors seat weren’t eligible. Keep in mind that there have been only 13 other successful recalls of state-level office holders nationwide since 1913 so successful recalls are quite rare. Personally I don’t like recalls unless serious graft or corruption is involved. This was primarily a case of buyers remorse. Recalls because you disagree with the way someone votes seldom succeed. The allegations from Republican Senator Randy Hopper’s wife that he moved out of his district to shack up with his mistress could have contributed to his close defeat.
    While the Democrats needed three seats to form a majority they can now team up with Republican Senator Dale Schultz who opposed Governor Walkers anti union legislation to achieve the same goal. We’ll see if it goes that way.

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  36. George Rebane Avatar

    “Possibly two.” Not to worry DougK, I believe that you may have fellow ideologues numbering at least in the low millions.

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  37. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Thanks Bill for the insight
    I forgot about Bennett of Utah. Yes, that was a statement that Republicans could no longer take for granted their seats. As a populist movement the Tea Party is historic and is forcing Americans and elected officials to look closely at something very stinky, which is always unpleasant. Speaking as an observer here I wonder how this will settle with the big money investor types that have been profiting quite handily due to the unlimited credit offered the US at least up to now. Much of the stimulus went directly to banks and insurance companies which they gobbled up quite handily. The money that is a result of our unfunded wars waslargely distributed to military providers and contractors, again running up the national credit card. Why should those institutions want an end to unlimited national credit? The job of politicians is to gather enough public support to get elected once then please special interest groups to get the big money to stay in office. That’s where I think the big conflict will come with the Tea Party. If they actually threaten the flow of tax dollars or borrowed money to big money gatherers they will be marginalized. I think this will happen within the Republican Party and, judging by the potential players in rgw Pres race it is obvious that Romney is gathering the big bucks, second to Obama who is the real champ at that right now.
    I’m thinking of writing a song. It will go something like this
    Where as all the money gone, long time passing
    Where has all the money gone,long tome ago
    Where has all the money gone gone to (fill in the blank) every one
    When will they ever learn, when will they ever learn
    it needs to be finished

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  38. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    “Where has all the money gone”… it was “transfered” out of the middle class.
    Follow the money up to the ultra rich, corporate “owners” and CEO’s… and to oil companies too.
    The money just moved up, it’s not lost.

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  39. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    It was also gathered by increasing the national debt right?

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  40. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Paul, you are so wrong man. You should stick to writing songs. In Wisconsin the one R who lost by 750 votes was found out to be diddling his young staffer and to only lose by that small margin is a true miracle. It shows the voters in his district liked the liberal even less. The Kapanke district voted Obama big time in 2008 and was an anomaly in the experts view. It is a D district but the people were PO’d enough last November to keep Kapanke elected in 2004. Also, 30,000 less voters showed up in District 32 than last November..

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  41. Mikey McD Avatar

    Wisconsin special election shows that the Tea Party IS THE MAJORITY and reiterates the MANDATE BY THE PEOPLE to CUT GOVERNMENT.
    http://www.atlassociety.org/tni/when-atlas-shrugged

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  42. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    As a private individual I bought a truck. I paid sales tax on that truck. I bought it to drive and as an investment. A 1920’s truck in running condition is worth a lot of money, so eventually my 1990’s F150 should be worth a lot too, so it is an investment. The markets do go up and down. Sadly the market has gone down for my 1990 truck and I have to sell it. At a loss. Again whoever buys it will have to pay sales tax. However, seeing’s how I’ve lost a lot of money on my investment, I want to use that money to offset so gains I’ve made elsewhere. If my truck was a stock, I be able to deduct every bit of my “loss,” against other earnings.
    Why are stocks so “special?” They also have no sales taxes associated with them. And if you sell them for more than you paid for them, you pay a measely 15% on the DIFFERENCE ONLY. The buyer of my truck pays sales tax on the full amount of purchase, like most other things that are bought and sold.
    So, again, why are stocks, commodities, etc. so special? Is it because that’s the way most of the über wealthy make their cash?

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  43. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    I want to correct you Todd so you don’t embarrass yourself. Kapanke did not run in 2010 he ran in 2008 and won his second term. He would not have been eligible for recall if he ran in 2010. In 2010 he ran for Congress against Democrat Ron Kind and lost.
    I acknowledged that Randy Hoppers lower brain likely affected his election so what’s the big deal?
    Either way two recall wins is a big deal because they are so rare.

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  44. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    I have a friend who works in Geothermal, so I am aware of the issues. I am just suggesting that more state sponsored research or incentives might be a good idea. I guess it will take one more Fukishima, perhaps a nuke plant on a fault line?

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  45. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    “who lost by 750 votes was found out to be diddling his young staffer ”
    better her than the citizens he’s supposed to be serving…

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  46. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    It was actually around 1200 votes. Randy Hopper. His soon to be ex wife made it big deal claiming he moved out of district to live with the bonkee.

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  47. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Actually Douglas, you need to pay income tax on the proceeds of the sale of your F150. You will do that, won’t you? Or are you a tax cheat? As far as taxes on stock, what state will be collecting the tax? If there is going to be a sales tax on stock, guess how many milliseconds for the whole deal to move to a non sales tax state? As Homer would say – dooh! You want fed tax on that transaction? Guess how many milliseconds to move the whole thing off shore?

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  48. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    Pass a law taxing all possessions off shore and on shore. make the off shore rates DOUBLE!
    A while back we discussed Tea Party members and the social values they cherish. here’s a sample I wandered into:
    “Employers
    Retired Law Enforcement
    High School
    School of Hard Knocks
    Philosophy
    Favorite Quotations Be The Person Your Dog Thinks You Are.
    Basic Information
    About Craig Outdoorsman, Hunter, Fisherman, Trapper, Survival Instructor, Weapons Instructor, Patriot, U.S. Military Veteran.
    Outdoorsman
    Survivalist ( Non-Militia )
    Christian
    Patriot
    Anti-Government
    Anti-Muslim
    Anti-Liberal
    Anti-Progressive
    Anti-Atheist
    Anti-Homosexual
    Pro-2nd Amendment
    Pro- States Rights
    Pro-Israel
    Marksman
    Semi-Retired Biker ( You Never Quit Being A Biker )
    Pro-Military
    Interested In Women
    Relationship Status Divorced
    Sex Male
    Contact Information
    Facebook http://facebook.com/craig.jaggard

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  49. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    ScottO,
    I don’t actually own an F150. I just used that as an example. None of my vehicles are for sale, unless some idiot offers me a ridiculous price. Yes, I do pay my taxes.

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  50. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    I do apologise Douglas, I forgot you make up almost everything you post.

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