Rebane's Ruminations
July 2011
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George Rebane

Oslo110722 So now Norway has Anders Behring Breivik, its own equivalent of America’s Timothy McVey.  We read that the 32 year old farmer has killed almost one hundred people, personally murdering eighty some by shooting each of them at close range.  He also posted a YouTube video (now removed) of himself declaring his terror rampage before first setting off a bomb in the center of Oslo, and then going out to a nearby island, disguised as a policeman, to shoot the youth gathered there.

We read that Breivik was a declared Christian “extreme right winger with anti-Muslim sentiments.”  He was disturbed by what he saw as the permissive multiculturalism that has given rise to the Islamic enclaves throughout Europe including his native Norway.  Apparently this attack was in planning for almost two years, and was to serve as a dramatic call for European “martyrs” to begin some sort of violent pushback of Islam and Marxism that he has described in a long “compendium/book” he titled 2083 – A European Declaration of Independence.  I have not read it, but it can be downloaded from google docs here.

What we do know is that he ordered six tons of fertilizer from which he presumably made at least one bomb, and that the island massacre lasted 90 minutes before the Norwegian SWAT team finally arrived after 40 minutes, and then took another 50 minutes to stop the killing.  Apparently there was not a single law-abiding gun on the island that could have saved lives during that interminably long killing spree.

It is hard for me to conclude that this was the act of a sane individual.  Perhaps he offers an explanation in his compendium as to how he thought that his terror would start some kind of spontaneous attack on people of non-European cultures.  But to a sane person, no matter his politics or sentiments about Islam and western culture, this act did nothing to achieve his declared end.  In fact, I think, like Timothy McVey, this was the most horrifically inappropriate and misguided use of violence that Breivik could have conceived – an assessment I cannot lay at the feet of Islamic terrorists who have so far used worldwide terror effectively to advance their ends.

Now we await for the investigation to reveal the complete and, perhaps, a different story about Breivik.  I am saddened that so many people had to die at the hand of a twisted individual, especially one who claims to be a defender of western culture.

Your thoughts?

[update]  One question that occurs during events like these is ‘to what extent is this a canary in the mine?’  It is usually at the edges that society first shows that something with it is awry.  The mentally or economically frail begin to visibly protest existing conditions, and then start to act like outlaws.  Wealthy and advanced societies usually react positively if not always in a timely manner to such signs.

If shopkeepers begin reporting that bread is being stolen from their shops, and this becomes more widespread, then an enlightened collective would be better served by finding the cause of the problem instead of just hiring more police.  If ill-schooled students graduate in greater numbers when more money is put into education, then an enlightened collective would conclude that there might be other factors at work than lack of funds.

But here we come into a conundrum – ascribing cause.  Upon reflection philosophers and scientists have come to understand that cause is ascriber-specific.  People with different belief systems, knowledge, intelligence, experience, and data can look at an event and ascribe markedly (wildly?) different precursors that were its actual cause.  To the extent that a culture and/or ideology are shared by a society, they will tend to interpret things in a more like manner and come to similar conclusions as to cause.  And the opposite is also true as we witness every day (and also on these pages).

So, in Norway was this madman a harbinger, a fraying edge that declares existence of a deeper problem in Norway’s European population?  What caused him to go on his murderous rampage, and what should the Norwegians do to minimize the likelihood of such future occurrences?

(In a future post I am planning to do a piece on causality that may help in the discussion of events like this and broader aspects of assessing public policy.  The effort always is to promote complete, clear, and concise communication on these pages.  Hard duty.)

Posted in , , ,

153 responses to “Norway Terror (updated)”

  1. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    “would Jesus vote Republican” 10,000 plus hits
    “would Jesus vote Democratic” 4 hits
    Someone explain that?

    Like

  2. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    Prove it, Keachie!
    OK, here is a nice review of Jesus Camp, complete with credits:
    “Indoctrinating the kids, 27 November 2007
    9/10
    Author: Dennis Littrell (dalittrell@yahoo.com) from SoCal
    As the closing credits roll we hear Norman Greenbaum’s “Spirit in the Sky.” The lyric goes something like, “I got a friend in Jesus…He’s going to set me up with the spirit in the sky…when I die…I’m going to go to the place that’s the best.” A similar point-blank irony suffuses this engaging documentary by Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady. Norman Greenbaum had his tongue firmly in cheek, of course, but Becky Fischer and her fellow molders of children are serious. She believes in indoctrinating the children and she says so. She points out that in Muslim lands the children are similarly indoctrinated, and even more so. It is a war. The word “war” is used repeatedly at Jesus Camp which was located (ironically, I guess) in Devil’s Lake, North Dakota. It’s a war that must be won, and implicitly the war is against liberals and mainstream American culture, but explicitly against science, especially biological evolution, and against other faiths. Becky pretends to apologize before telling us that Christianity has The Truth and therefore should triumph over other religions, creeds and cultures. She believes that. There can be no question about the sincerity of her beliefs.
    What struck me most powerfully is what was REALLY being taught at Jesus Camp. That is, methods of indoctrination. Behind all the rhetoric about Jesus and being saved was the political agenda for the fundamentalist movement. Part Nazi rally, part revival meeting, part Brainwashing 101, what really came across were all the persuasive techniques that Becky Fischer, Ted Haggard and the others had perfected. Suffer the little children indeed. Get ’em while they’re young, Becky tells us. The impressions made and beliefs instilled in children before the age of, say eight, will last a lifetime, she tells us.
    She says she loves America. We see out of a car window the endless sameness of asphalt roads, telephone poles and electric wires, KFC restaurants and car dealerships that form the main streets of most any American town. I doubt that she loves the America of the Museum of Modern Art or the America of Benjamin Franklin or Thomas Jefferson or the redwoods or the Grand Canyon. Becky says that she loves America, and then she says she prays to get away from this awful world–or words to that effect.
    I find it tough to find credence in people who devote their lives to manipulating the emotions of children in an effort to create a new generation of opportunists (or zombies) to mindlessly champion the slogans of their political and social agenda. How sad it was to see young Levi O’Brien–bright, talented and impressionable beyond his years–being molded into a future TV evangelist. He will learn the clever deceit practiced not by people like Becky Fischer, who as I said, is a true believer, but more like Ted Haggard himself or any number of moneyed evangelical personalities who preach one thing in public and in their private lives do something else. He will learn the same techniques that Becky and Ted have learned, techniques of rhetoric and persuasion, of indoctrination and the manipulation of emotions. He will learn what leads to success in evangelical land, that truth comes from religious authority and political and economic power, and that anyone who thinks differently is an enemy.
    Becky Fischer thinks liberal America will be worried after seeing this documentary. Her ability to mold children into her brand of Christianity should scare us, she thinks. But revivalist America comes and goes with the passing of time. We’ve seen it all before. What is different today is that evangelicals were able to elect somebody like George W. Bush and to control the Congress and cow the media. I think America has seen where that leads, to the weakening and embarrassment of America; and I am betting that America has learned its lesson and that the politicians who would do the work of the faith-based, ignorance-based, head-in-the-sand, evangelical movement will lose out to more enlightened leadership. After all, unlike Becky, most of us and our children must live in this world without the fantasy of imminent rapture, and therefore must work toward making the world a better place for all of us.”

    Like

  3. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    I guess you guys will just have to spend a little more time on the couch. We can explore your propensity to transfer frustration over modern society and its diminution of your social position vis a vis people who were previously members of the underclass into political theory;)

    Like

  4. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    Gues who wrote this?
    Around 2000, I realized that the democratic struggle against the Islamization of Europe, and European multiculturalism, was lost. It is simply not possible to compete with democratic regimes that import millions of voters. 40 years of dialogue with the cultural Marxists / multiculturalists had ended up as a disaster. It would now only take 50-70 years before we, Europeans, were the minority. So I decided to explore alternative forms of opposition. But the biggest problem then was that there were no options for me at all. There was no known armed culturally conservative, or Christian, anti-Jihad movement.
    Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2084895,00.html#ixzz1T5qwhxwy

    Like

  5. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    I think there’s something in the water up here…sheesh.

    Like

  6. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    Set your calibration engines to stun–this is what a far lefty actually looks like, since so many of you seem to not have a clue: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/25/opinion/25krugman.html?_r=1&hp

    Like

  7. Larry Wirth Avatar
    Larry Wirth

    Doug K, as far as I know, you wrote this. Not saying it’s original, but until now, it’s a point of view I’d never heard expressed so clearly.
    George, as I follow your blog, I can’t help wonder what you did to attract so many truly deranged readers from the slums of leftism. Sheesh…indeed.

    Like

  8. George Rebane Avatar

    DougK, what proposition is your 1033PM comment supposed to support?
    SteveF, “… transfer frustrations over modern society …” ??? We were attempting to discuss a madman’s response to a widely acknowledged social phenomenon that is sweeping Europe. What are you contributing?

    Like

  9. George Rebane Avatar

    LarryW, I have a flawed policy for managing comments on RR, and seem to be hanging on to a futile hope that the ideas herein will attract more than people with mud buckets. I have had partial success in this, but only enough to keep me going.
    All recommendations for improving these comment streams are welcomed and seriously studied.

    Like

  10. Mike Thornton Avatar

    Lets face it, guys, the Oslo killer is a fundamentalist Christian, terrorist assassin who is every bit an Al Qaeda “soul mate”. Let’s face another fact. The only difference between this guy and many, many of the “regressives” here in the USA is that he actually followed through on his rhetoric and “put his money where his mouth was”!
    He IS you! And that’s why you’re spinning around like “tops” trying so very, very hard to make it/him something other than what he is, a “politically motivated right wing terrorist killer” and if he’s “crazy” he’s no crazier than most of you and the majority of the people you claim to support!

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  11. George Rebane Avatar

    MikeT, thanks for your usual incisive analysis and conclusions. Maybe communicating them directly to the Norwegian government will save that nation considerable time and money in their investigation.
    And your conclusive accusations of the rest of us are vintage Thornton (cum Saul Alinsky). All that remains now is revealing your prescription to cure the ills that surround you.

    Like

  12. D. King Avatar
    D. King

    It never ceases to amaze me, how after a tragedy, the left gets giddy.

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  13. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    George< i was responding to your analogy regarding psychoanalysis.

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  14. Walt Avatar
    Walt

    Why is it when we hear of a shooting rampage,, it’s usually done by a kook Leftist? ( FACT)
    Here is something to think about. Just how ” motivated” are the mine haters? What “extremes” would they go to when IMM gets approval? Would a new chapter of E.L.F. suddenly show up in town?
    You can surely bet that destruction and vandalism will occur.Death threats, ETC…
    OH Ya,,, it could happen.( more than likely) So If and when it does,, just who will our ” peaceful” Progressives blame for doing that damage? The Mine of course. ” It was their fault… They opened.”. We are protecting the environment from the dangers of mining”. Yes,,,,, it could happen. And another yes,,, we do have people around here that ARE that radical.

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  15. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    Walt posts… “when IMM gets approval” and rants about enviro’s. Sorry Walt the word “when” is wrong, it will never get approved for so many, many reasons.
    Walt… please get back on track and back on topic.

    Like

  16. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    GRebane, Greg Goodknight made the comment about sending kids to politically oriented summer camps (in apparent amazement that anyone here would do such a thing), and I merely supplied such a camp with a far right fundy Christian stance, to show him that not only do such summer camps exist in the USA, but also in some political and political/religious combos, that he might not want to acknowledge.
    “Doug K, as far as I know, you wrote this. Not saying it’s original, but until now, it’s a point of view I’d never heard expressed so clearly.
    George, as I follow your blog, I can’t help wonder what you did to attract so many truly deranged readers from the slums of leftism. Sheesh…indeed.”
    Glad you acknowledge that this is deranged. If you had followed the link, you’d know it came from the Norway homegrown terrorist’s writings. I did not write any part of it.

    Like

  17. D. King Avatar
    D. King

    Just a general question; do our lefty / progressive friends take responsibility for the failed experiment in multiculturalism?
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1355961/Nicolas-Sarkozy-joins-David-Cameron-Angela-Merkel-view-multiculturalism-failed.html

    Like

  18. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Thornton is not to be taken seriously since we all learned he was simply a run of the mill bloviator on KVMR and a very biased “news” guy. He cracks me up.

    Like

  19. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    Hey George… do you apply any standards to Todd’s endless, off topic, personal attacks?
    George… why do you allow Todd to do this all the time and fail to address his actions here? George you “council” others about their personal attack posts, so why not do the same for Todd?

    Like

  20. George Rebane Avatar

    MikeT, great link. Everyone not familiar with leftwing ‘logic’ and the tenor of discourse from that ideology should definitely visit the site. The article itself reads like some comments on these pages. Wow!
    For the careful reader, comparing an annual political indoctrinaton for future Labor Party leaders to a tea party sponsored civics lesson celebrating America is a bit of a stretch.
    BTW, I don’t see anything wrong with Norway’s long-ruling Labor Party bending twigs so that they grow into the proper left-leaning trees; this no more than our political parties hold retreats for young Democrats and Republicans. And during the 1930s Hitler Youth camps were legally held both in Germany and the United States.
    I think the problem that people have with such camps (as did Breivik) is what they don’t agree with that is taught there, because no doubt such youth indoctrination is extremely effective. This has been known for millenia by governments and organized religions.
    During the latter part of the 20th century even the American progressive movement discovered the power of getting hold of the little darlings while they’re young, as witnessed by these ideologues gaining almost total control of our public schools through politically active and ideologically calcified teachers’ unions.

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  21. Mike Thornton Avatar

    Gee, George, talk about “logic”. When you guys do it, its a “civics lesson”, but if someone else does it (that you don’t like) it’s “indoctrination”.
    Amazing!
    But nevertheless, the bottom line remains. Once again a Christian “terrorist” commits political murder, inspired by American right wing rhetoric and you guys are trying to obfuscate the issue. You are once again making excuses for political violence when it supports your goals. You’ve done it before, I knew you would be doing it this time and I know you’ll be doing it, each and every time it happens in the future!

    Like

  22. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    George, remember, these fellows don’t even like the Boy Scouts but they love the indoctrination camps for leftwingers. Amazing.

    Like

  23. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Oh, and I listened to the link to Glenn Beck and surprise! Beck condemned the man and called him no better than Al Queda. So I would suggest people listen to the things they supply here since now MT has a huge pie in the face. Self thrown!

    Like

  24. George Rebane Avatar

    Yes, it’s all indoctrination MikeT. By “civics lesson” I was attempting to communicate a right/left ideology neutral indoctrination that should have nothing to do with Republican or Democrat viewpoints.
    “… making excuses for political violence …”, “You’ve done it before,…” ??? What? Where? Are these gratuitous accusations, or some more amateur psychoanalytics?
    MikeT, your recent absence was a such refreshing interlude – how about a reprise?

    Like

  25. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    George, your last post was a hoot! Right over his head though.

    Like

  26. Bonnie M Avatar
    Bonnie M

    As my husband often says, “Paper stands still for whatever is written on it.” That doesn’t mean it’s the truth. It’s up to us to go to the source if we want to seek the truth…and consequently it frees us from confusing conjecture. I get a kick out of those who use Christ to prove this or that argument, but don’t know anything about him, other than what they’ve been told by others. Thanks George, for clarifying the news report we heard regarding the terrorist’s resentment towards Norway’s government labor party. The muslim connection reminds me of what Nikita Khrushchev (as first Secretary of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union) said many years ago when he was asked what religion he preferred. He chose Islam. I suppose he chose it for it’s totalitarian rule like the Communist (labor) party that ruled Russia following the revolution. Amazing how it just keeps going…like the energized rabbit.

    Like

  27. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Oh, here is a line from MT’s fav guy Sheaffer’s Wikipedia entry, “On February 7, 2008, Schaeffer endorsed Senator Barack Obama for the Democratic Party’s presidential nomination,”
    Yep, just as I thought.

    Like

  28. Mike Thornton Avatar

    [Removed gratuitous comment denigrating RR readers and me without contributing anything to the topic at hand. gjr]

    Like

  29. D. King Avatar
    D. King

    From my earlier posts:
    David Cameron U.K. P.M.
    “Cameron launched a scathing attack earlier this month(s) on 30 years of multiculturalism in Britain warning that it fostered extremism.”
    Again, does the left take responsibility?
    See, before multiculturalism, there wasn’t any!

    Like

  30. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    Thanks george for kudo’s – in a country like Norway apparently he felt such frustration because there is no alternative. The US and other EU countries at least have some political means for change, apparently not so much there. It also appears that “Christian” has absolutely nothing to do with anything – other than he’s not a muslim – not many Hindu’s there I suspect.
    This is a nationalistic issue that is becoming more wide spread in europe as the EU encroches with their Socialistic/Multicultural plan for the continent – most do not like being called Europians – they prefer Brit-German – Irish. The NAZI’s like them or not rode a wave of Nationalism to power after WW1, they didn’t start out with a plan to kill jews but it was german Nationalism at its core – those same feelings still exist today in all of Europe to some extent.
    Kinda like our resistence to Globel Governence – we are Americans and want to stay that way – just say’in
    Thank You Bonnie for the post that inspired it, nice to see you here.

    Like

  31. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    This conversation is making me sick to my stomach. It’s accomplishing exactly what Behring Breivik wanted.

    Like

  32. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    So George…
    You removed a post by Mike Thornton and posted:
    [Removed gratuitous comment denigrating RR readers and me without contributing anything to the topic at hand. gjr]
    Posted by: Mike Thornton | 25 July 2011 at 02:37 PM
    So wil lyou apply the very same stands to Todd’s personal attack post?:
    “Thornton is not to be taken seriously since we all learned he was simply a run of the mill bloviator on KVMR and a very biased “news” guy. He cracks me up”
    Posted by: Todd Juvinall | 25 July 2011 at 11:35 AM
    George… do you apply posting standards to all or just some?

    Like

  33. George Rebane Avatar

    No, I’m probably not being fair, but MikeT’s comment was a bit beyond ToddJ’s – neither added to the discussion, one was just more broadly egregious. I seek refuge in what a wise coach told me years ago about the risk in fairness, “Never seek justice, just mercy.”

    Like

  34. Mike Thornton Avatar

    More proof that what I’m saying about right wing bloggers is indeed relevant and in fact a major topic of discussion on the internet today.
    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/25/998605/-Right-wing-bloggers-suddenly-circumspect-in-wake-of-Norway-attacks-?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dailykos%2Findex+%28Daily+Kos%29&utm_content=My+Yahoo
    All anyone has to do is to go through past posts on RR and they’ll find that what I’m saying is correct!
    George will NEVER apply the same standard to Todd or any other “regressive”! George is as biased and partisan as they come. He doesn’t like what I post, because I call him and his fellow regressives out for exactly what they are!

    Like

  35. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    [Removed another comment continuing to criticize my admittedly faulty management of RR comments. Removal of further such diatribes will not be acknowledged. This is becoming a pain in the ass. Capiche? gjr]

    Like

  36. George Rebane Avatar

    MikeT, thanks for the continued reference to dailykos.com. I’m not sure who all takes that site’s output for anything other than professing the hard left agenda (as is their every right to do).
    And all you have to do is to produce one citation on RR that has me promoting terror or political violence, else you’re history here until you do.

    Like

  37. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    Mr Thornton I pesume you are correct on your read of george, as he pointe dout to Steve- although you forget one major factor – he owns the place.
    I don’t think George or anyone else here or any blogger has condoned what was done – in the trying to understand it you have to face certain realities for his motivation – and your incessent whining about someone else doesn’t change any of them.
    Doesn’t your paryer rug need washing or something

    Like

  38. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    ” Capiche?”… yep, two sets of standards here.

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  39. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Dixon
    “in the trying to understand it you have to face certain realities for his motivation ”
    Are you willing to provide the same dictum to the perpetrators of 9-11 ?

    Like

  40. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Enos, speaking of double standards, why your apparent double standard over at the wingnut Big Boy’s Blog? All you have to do to get banned over there is to win a few arguments.

    Like

  41. Ben Emery Avatar

    Didn’t read the thread, I work outside and don’t have the time, but can only assume the dialogue didn’t go this direction.
    Horrific acts are possible by extreme sects of any group. I think the response is just as important as the act itself.
    Norway is much more liberal than Clinton administration. My guess they will handle this tragedy with faith in the justice system. Terrorist acts are criminal acts perpetrated by extreme fringes of political or religious faiths. Clinton handled the first trade center bombings like a crime and the perpetrators are in prison. McVeigh, Nichols, and Fortier received trials and were found guilty for their crimes.
    George Bush had 19 extremists largely from Saudi Arabia 15/19 and went a totally different route of fear, weakness, exploitation, and stripping Americans of their civil liberties. No country attacked the US but we responded with attacks on countries that had very little or no connection to the attacks. George Bush declared war with military force on a emotion that cannot surrender making it a perpetual war, which creates more hatred towards the US.

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  42. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    What is interesting to me regarding comments like BenE’s is his total lack of history. PaulE is the same. The Arabs have conquered where there are through force and intimidation and most of their land mass was secured within 50 years of Mohammed’s death in the 600’s. They have been in a perpetual jihad against all infidels since day one. I have said and referenced a number of times the book “Jefferson’s War” as an early example of our country’s interaction with the Islamic fanatics. I suggest Paul and Ben read it for some reference other than their own short life’s experience. Regarding the rules here. This is George’s blog and he can be whatever he chooses to do here. He puts out his ideas and ALLOWS us all to comment. There are people who debate rationally like George and there are flamethrowers and there are whiners. I would suggest that SteveE stay away and give his opinions to other blogs that enjoy his type of input. It does not seem to go over to well here. I have to boot some of his comments on my blog because of his incessant whining and massive cut/paste techniques. He also likes to keep pasting the same massive story’s again after I remove them. He does this all over the blogosphere.
    Anyway, it appears that the media is finally doing their job on this Norway tragedy and it is becoming obvious this murdering scumbag was never seen on church or seen practicing Christianity. A policeman made the original statement about this guys religion and no one checked it out. His manifesto reads like a secular pagan apparently and once again, the left has done their dirty deed trying to make someone a Christian murderer so they can gain some moral equivalency I guess. And once again, we defended our religion and the truth is now out and on our side.

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  43. George Rebane Avatar

    Todd, you raise a good point on Breivik’s supposed Christianity. The WSJ reported that Breivik declared that he was raised in a “liberal and secular household.” The left’s blogosphere is now hyper with painting him as a devout fundamental Christian, making explicit statements that he represents the pent up emotions of similarly characterized right wingers in the US. Everyone should strap on their bullet proof vests until we can get the guns out of the hands of the public (like in Norway).

    Like

  44. Bonnie M Avatar
    Bonnie M

    George, this is a wonderful blog where people can express themselves intelligently on current affairs. Thank you for keeping it that way.

    Like

  45. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    “Kinda like our resistence to Globel Governence – we are Americans and want to stay that way – just say’in”
    We’re NOT going to stay that way, if we keep on with the exportation of the jobs and the extreme concentration of the wealth in the hands of nobles and royal families of the Corporatocracy. Show me the difference between here and Saudi Arabia, except where maybe they have better health care for the masses.

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  46. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    Mr Emery I certainly would, they had completely different motivations but believe them enough to act.
    I can acknowledge that fact without doubt. Not really sure where your going with it, the guy is reallt really pissed his Government is giving his country or at least half of it to the muslims. Back in the old days of the Ottoman Empire they at least had to kill some people to gain ground and enclaves, in the PC/UN world of today not so much – just say’in

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  47. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    I see nobody disagrees with the notion that the summer camp documented in “Jesus Camp” is indeed a politically oriented summer camp.

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  48. Douglas Keachie Avatar

    “Let’s see…the confessed killer is anti-tax, anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim. Remind you of any groups in the US?”
    From FB, liberal NC circles.

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