Rebane's Ruminations
June 2011
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George Rebane

Archie&Meathead Apropos to the lively discussion at ‘True Value of Work and Caring Economics’, Harvard professor of government Harvey Mansfield contributed a telling piece about the “poor choices … students made in selecting their courses and majors.”  In ‘Sociology and Other Meathead Majors’ Dr Mansfield points out the distinction between education based on facts and that based on values.  And, of course, therein lays a root cause of rot in our workforce.  Majors in ‘values based’ subject areas are hard to sell on the labor markets.  And moreover, such majors are victims of the commercially useless leftwing ideologies that are rampant in the country’s schools.  That is a double burden that no employer, save the government, wants to bear.

Mansfield opines that “Archie Bunker was right to be skeptical of his son-in-law’s opinions.”, and goes on to say –

More fundamental, however, is the division within the university today, in America and everywhere, between science and the humanities. Science deals with facts but the humanities also have to deal with values. This is where the problem of bad choices arises. We think that one can have knowledge of fact but not of values—the famous “fact/value” distinction.

Science has knowledge of fact, and this makes it rigorous and hard. The humanities have their facts bent or biased by values, and this makes them lax and soft. This fact—or is it a value?—gives confidence and reputation to scientists within the university. Everyone respects them, and though science is modest because there is always more to learn, scientists sometimes strut and often make claims for extra resources. Some of the rest of us glumly concede their superiority and try to sell our dubious wares in the street, like gypsies. We are the humanists. 

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332 responses to “‘Meathead’ Majors”

  1. D. King Avatar
    D. King

    “I do think that creating performance metrics for government agencies, boards, commissions and programs will help business in the long run by helping to force government activities to prove their worth.”
    Another agency?
    You just can’t help yourself Steve.
    May I humbly suggest:
    Department of Redundancy Department

    Like

  2. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    There have been a number of ‘moderate’ Republicans running for statewide offices. You’ve not noticed? Even Schwarzenegger carried all but 6 counties in 2006, and in happier times called the most liberal Senator in the US by the name “Uncle Teddy”.
    Here’s your Other Voices… filled with falsehoods and wishful thinking. Where is the disclaimer your company will gain revenue from AB32 implementations, that the SBC budget would have been negatively impacted by Prop 23? Then, as now, you dance around it, as if the fact that your Carbon profits will just help you fund your other activities changes anything. A lie by omission remains a lie.
    http://www.theunion.com/article/20101002/OPINION/101009967&parentprofile=search
    And yes, I directly challenged you regarding this in the comments; shall I dig those out too?

    Like

  3. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    ggoodknight, 9/7/2010 1:49 PM PDT on theunion.com

    Stephen Frisch writes [same day] “By the way, I never said I was an expert, I am not. I am a guy, just like you, who reads about public policy and digs in to it if it is of interest. There is nothing wrong with that. If you think I’m not qualified to discuss this, then neither are you.”
    Perhaps I’m confused… aren’t you the same Stephen Frisch who is CEO of the so-called “Sierra Business Council”, and a significant portion of your business involves capitalizing on the regulation of carbon dioxide?Does the SBC stand to gain from AB32 and the defeat of Prop 23, or doesn’t it?”

    Remember now, Steve?

    Like

  4. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Yet Greg in that very same other voices I identify myself as the President of the Sierra Business Council. Anyone who wants to look can. I admit I am not an expert on the science in my comments that follow, I remember. I think you miss the point ALL OF US HAVE A RIGHT to be involved in public policy. This is friggin America.
    So if you are going to say I have a vested interest I would say all citizens have a vested interest and PLEASE DISCLOSE YOUR STOCK PORTFOLIO!
    You are just a lazy couch potato dude! I am out doing it and you are frustrated.

    Like

  5. Mike Thornton Avatar

    Well, well, well…
    My point about “demonizing” is as Steve put it. It usually doesn’t take more than a sentence or two, before one of the regressive posters call somebody some sort of derogatory name or applies some unwarranted stereotype label to them, calls them a “liar” or even gets into trying to make fun of their physical appearance. When this happens, none of the regressive posters complain about it and very often jump on the band wagon. However, we all know what happens when the regressives believe that the same thing is being done to them or simply want to try and trump something up, in order to take the focus off the issues.
    Regressive IS the appropriate term to use and I’ll continue to use it!
    What I see here is actually pretty simple. Regressives want the ability to say and do anything they want to their opponents. But at the same time they want to limit what their opponents can say or do to them. This has been the bottom line from the regressive playbook for the last 30+ years and “liberals” have fallen for it.
    Let me see you guys clean up your act and start treating people with decency and respect.
    I’ll actually bet real money that you won’t do it, because the truth of the matter is that I don’t think you can do it!
    I really believe that if you actually tried to stick to the real issues and stop the sleazy attacks, you’d run out of material in less than a day!

    Like

  6. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Wow, I leave for some fun for a short time and this place gets real hot!
    Paul, you crack me up, what a hoot!
    Thornton, you are stuck in a hate rut, “regressive” doesn’t bother me as you intend it too. I would say returning our country to its roots of freedom and less government is a very laudatory “regressive” goal. So have at it.
    Frisch, you are why Americans don’t like lobbyists. Since you were the chief lobbyist against Prop 23 and were then going to benefit from grants and loans if you succeeded, you have become the poster child for the Sacramento corruption industry. You are a hypocrite par excellence. Also, the bills you say you got passed don’t add one private sector job but they do create more Steve Frisch’s. We are trying to stop that kind of meaningless deck chair movement.
    Greg, you are obviously much smarter then Frisch and Thornton so keep up the good work.

    Like

  7. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Todd I doubt you even read the bills. I wonder why Dan Logue and Doug LaMalfa voted for them?

    Like

  8. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Paul and Mike I think you know see why my question here is “what is the value proposition”? These people and their ideas have no value. They are a waste of time.

    Like

  9. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    By the way I have yet to benefit from one grant or loan due to the failure of Prop 23, and there is non on the horizon, although there is no such thing as trust with you guys.

    Like

  10. wmartin Avatar
    wmartin

    I think someone needs a hug.
    Honestly, the best rants are to be found on democraticunderground.com although, last time I checked on Mr. Pelline’s sight, there’s some pretty decent harpy action going on there.
    Aside from all these people accusing each other of being meanies, I was thinking about George Rebanes question about the sparseness of new science/engineering graduates and the great number of new workers who are more qualified at the unskilled end of the scale.
    The cynic in me wonders if it’s really a problem. High tech firms claim labor shortages as an issue mostly, so far as I can tell, to drive down rates via the various flavors of H1B-esque programs. There’s also a lot of groups including, oddly enough, normally pro-labor Liberals that think it’s cool to ship in millions of campesinos. The primary net effect of this last thing is to cap income and working conditions for blue collar work in a lot of the US.
    If there is a shortage of people, where is it really? I’ll bet it’s nowhere obvious. It wouldn’t surprise me if labor shortfalls simply don’t exist to any great degree in mature industries (including software and web development), but instead come up in truly new industries.

    Like

  11. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    SB 201 is here and maybe SteveF can explain how this is going to help create jobs.
    http://www.leg.state.nv.us/Session/76th2011/reports/history.cfm?ID=478
    Looks like a party line vote too. 27-15
    SB 14 places “performance” based budgeting into the State Constitution and recieved a unanimous Senate vote. Whether it will become law is yet to be seen.
    http://e-lobbyist.com/gaits/CA/SB14
    SB 15 is also a budget tweaker bill and was a unanimous vote.
    http://e-lobbyist.com/gaits/CA/SB15
    I would like to know how SteveF had anything to do with this and how the private sector gets any benefit? I think he was blowing smoke.

    Like

  12. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    So Steve, my post was being researched while you were asking me if I read the bills. See above. Please tell us all how these bills create one private sector job here in California. If anything they are simply budget tweaks. Based on your smarmy response and challenges about these bills, tell us how you had anything to do with them? Did you work with your Senator and Assemblyman on them?

    Like

  13. Michael R. Kesti Avatar
    Michael R. Kesti

    To use the term “regressives” to describe conservatives would be akin to using the term “pro death” to describe those who are willing to allow abortion. In both cases the words are valid and accurate, and they completely misrepresent the issues’ actual philosophical differences with the intent to demonize and judge.

    Like

  14. George Rebane Avatar

    Re shortage of skill sets for jobs. Being back in the technology entrepreneurial saddle, my anecdotal experience about the shortage of science/math proficient people confirms government and industry claims. I also see a lot of senior (50+) ‘fighter pilots’ out there earning high salaries at levels that in the past would have called for their accepting a ‘bomber pilot’ job or being fired because two or three junior technical workers would have been available to out-produce him.
    [‘fighter pilot’ is a term for a highly skilled (technical) individual who likes to work alone, is very productive/innovative, and rejects offers to lead others. ‘bomber pilot’ is the converse of someone who takes his technical skills into a group/dept leadership position and leverages his experience and education to the benefit of his employer.]

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  15. D. King Avatar
    D. King

    ‘Meathead’ Majors
    Steve Said:
    “These people and their ideas have no value. They are a waste of time.”
    Steve,
    Your intensions are good, however, to get to 33% renewable in the stated time frame is not possible unless you pencil whip the numbers by reducing overall consumption in an economically debilitating amount. A better approach would be to leave things as they are and invest money into energy research. I’m not talking about wind, solar, bio, but physics. That is where you will find the amount of energy you need, and, it is there Steve.

    Like

  16. George Rebane Avatar

    Agreed with DaveK – set up a very large prize for success, and stand back.

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  17. Mikey McD Avatar
    Mikey McD

    “Regressive”- when liberals do ‘it’ they call it “reform.” Those using logic can’t ignore the run-away government spending, debt, regulations, tax structure… reform is needed.
    AB32 forced an ideology on the people of CA. God only knows what the Thornton’s of the world would be calling republicans for forcing their ideology on the people (using junk science, fear, propaganda none the less)?
    AB32 matches the definition of ‘regressive.’ AB32 is the poster child for “regressive.”

    Like

  18. Mikey McD Avatar
    Mikey McD

    hypocrisy- when big corporations collude with government there is evil but when hand selected niche businesses (and non-profits) collude with government there is never ending sunshine, lollipops and birds chirping.
    “I simply attract a different type of business owner, thats my niche. “

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  19. Mike Thornton Avatar

    No Michael. there’s a big difference between “pro death” and “pro choice” and there’s as big a difference between “conservative” and “regressive”.
    There’s noting “conservative” about what you guys are proposing. It is in fact “extremist”!
    However it is extremely accurate to call it “regressive”, since it is (in essence) an attempt to roll back not only New Deal legislation, but to even roll back the idea that we live in an integrated (I don’t only mean racially) society and that there is a social contract to work together to better the lives of all Americans, not just the wealthy and privileged!
    So the actual misrepresentation is when “regressives” call themselves “conservatives”!

    Like

  20. D. King Avatar
    D. King

    George,
    McCain suggested $1.00 per person in the U.S.
    $300+ million, Katie bar the door!

    Like

  21. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    By the way Todd, I was talking about CALIFORNIA Senate Bill 201 not Nevada Senate Bill 201.
    I’m not going to tell you any more about how we worked on them than I did above. You will need to read the posts.
    D. King–we are already at about 20% renewable generated power in the State of California already. Capital investment and permitting processes are in place to put us at about 25% over the next 5 years. 33% is a target. At the current rate of bringing renewables on line we should meet 33% by about 2025. Reducing per capita consumption, and California is already at about 60% of the consumption rate of the average American, through energy efficiency can reduce the gap even more.
    We are doing Direct Install energy efficiency in businesses right now and the average savings after an install is about 20% with less than a 1-year payback.
    Demand response is another way to meet the goal. We are helping businesses install software that will adjust the timing of their sue of energy to bring the savings up even more, and reduce demand on non-baseload power.
    I agree with you that more research is needed.

    Like

  22. Mikey McD Avatar
    Mikey McD

    Thornton, and your solutions to our debt crisis? Unfunded liability crisis? pathetically low savings yields on mom and pops savings accounts? Bankrupt SS? An ignored and failing educational system?
    Do you call it ‘EXTREME’ when you balance your checkbook each month?

    Like

  23. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Gee Michael, I can’t help it if you don’t like the word. It is nonetheless accurate and in the dictionary, so i guess you regressive’s are just going to have to live with it. I prefer reactionary but I will go with Mike on this one!

    Like

  24. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    By the way Todd, perhaps you can call your good friends Dan Logue and Doug LaMalfa about SB 14 & 15. They voted for them. If you guys can’t see how these bills improve the states financial position in the long run I can’t really help you. To understand it. YOU NEED TO DO THE WORK.

    Like

  25. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Oops, SB201 is linked here. Please tell me how you helped in this bill. When I went back to get the first link I hit the wrong one.
    http://e-lobbyist.com/gaits/CA/SB201
    All three bills were unanimous so that tells me they are in the scope of political votes where no one would vote against say, widows and orphans. So tell us how you managed to be a part of these three unanimous votes Steve and how these are going to create one job here in our bankrupt state.

    Like

  26. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    By the way Todd, I can’t help but note that according to the timelines above you did not wait to actually read them, or even know if you the accurate links, before you mouthed off with your uninformed opinion that they “don’t create one private sector job”; confirming my suspicion that you are 2/3 of a fully formed ideology chasing 1/3 of a fully formed intellect.

    Like

  27. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I think SteveF is off the meds again. The bills he cites do not create jobs. Read them and then look at the votes. Widows and orphans. I think a hypocrite like Frisch is simply been caught in his own web of deceit and he is using his third grade mental capacity to do the peepee dance of bogus facts. Please StevF, read your bills you seem to believe you had something to do with before you embarrass yourself any further.

    Like

  28. D. King Avatar
    D. King

    Steve,
    Including Hydro is misleading people. If Global Warming is reducing snowpack (oops),
    and that means less water, well then… I have to tell you, to an engineer, banning light bulbs was not your best, first, move!
    Still, I don’t think you understand how fast new energy will arrive. Don’t put all your eggs…

    Like

  29. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Golly, Br’er Frisch is a bit hot under the collar. Steve, that quote from TheUnion comments wasn’t from your OtherVoices, it was from comments from an OtherVoices by County Supervisor Spencer. You hadn’t identified yourself as CEO of the rent seeking SBC, you were just a regular guy, not an expert, despite being in a position to be working on legislation (no doughnut at meetings?), or so you now claim. Disingenuous at best.
    Now he’s melting down, apparently thinking I must be motivated by income in dirty energy stocks. Sorry, Steve, but I own no individual stocks nor do I own any ETFs or other funds that are specific to energy production or distribution. Closest thing I have to skin in the energy game is a paltry four figure investment in a commodity ETF as a very speculative play in an alternative energy scenario, in an IRA. Nor have I ever earned a penny from working in any industry even peripherally related to energy other than having big electric bills.
    I wasn’t a meathead in college, Steve. Math and physical sciences. I’m in this discussion because in my opinion, the evidence is clear that the science that has driven your ‘good public policy’ is false, and our economy is being harmed by it.

    Like

  30. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    I think free minds and free markets are the true progressive ideals. Classic liberalism. John Locke and Thomas Jefferson. Self styled “Progressives” seem oriented towards robbing Peter to pay Paul, and growing the power of the state to boss people around. Free to live as you choose, as long as it’s the life “Progressives” want you to live. In my mind, that’s true Regressivism.
    Thornton, how many of the desperately poor in our country are functionally illiterate? How many of those could not have been expected to read because of mental defects? I expect the answers are on the order of “most all” and “very few”. You?

    Like

  31. Mikey McD Avatar
    Mikey McD

    Worth repeating: “I think free minds and free markets are the true progressive ideals. Classic liberalism. John Locke and Thomas Jefferson. Self styled “Progressives” seem oriented towards robbing Peter to pay Paul, and growing the power of the state to boss people around. Free to live as you choose, as long as it’s the life “Progressives” want you to live. In my mind, that’s true Regressivism.”
    Posted by: Greg Goodknight | 04 June 2011 at 11:30 AM

    Like

  32. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Golly, Steve, I believe you’ve claimed here that the SBC has 700 business members, but your Schedule O claims “MEMBERSHIP: SIERRA BUSINESS COUNCIL IS A MEMBER-BASED ORGANIZATION OF OVER 700 INDIVIDUALS WHO ARE COMMITTED TO PIONEERING INNOVATIVE SOLUTIONS IN THE SIERRA NEVADA. MEMBERSHIP PLAYS A KEY ROLE IN NETWORKING PLANNING AND IMPLEMENTING THE ORGANIZATION’S MISSION”.
    700 individuals, or 700 businesses? Which is it?
    I see that year you got $100K in reportable compensation vs $520K for everyone else combined, and the fees for services provided was on the order of $400K. Nice percentage of the action, Steve.

    Like

  33. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    How true. What we now have in the Thornton’s Frisch’s and their ilk are “pro-gressives” They are rent seekers and live off the rest of us. Therefore they are “pro” short for professionals. Gressives are shared by all.

    Like

  34. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Todd, forgive me for repeating myself, but your snipings are not contributing to the discussion.

    Like

  35. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    D. King–Hydro is not included in the renewable portfolio standard in California. You propensity to assume with out research is showing.

    Like

  36. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Greg, my point remains, I have a first amendment right, as an individual and as a member of an organization, protected under the freedom of association clause. In America, we are all equal. I am always just a guy, whether speaking individually or on behalf of my organization. If you want me to address a specific point by the way I wold prefer it if you link to the original source material. You are trying to divert attention from the core point. I have a right to speak up, and there is NOTHING you are your bullying friends can do about that.

    Like

  37. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Well Greg, why can’t I question your motivations if you can question mine? Lets see your stock portfolio.

    Like

  38. wmartin Avatar
    wmartin

    LOL. The ‘discussion’ is just a cacophony.
    Just to throw in my own yammering, in response to:
    “Steve,
    Including Hydro is misleading people. ”
    Here’s how I see hydro as being misleading.
    . It’s low hanging fruit.
    . It’s practically all finished up. IE. there ain’t no more.
    . Being used as a baseline for renewable, that is, non-mined energy, is kind of disingenuous.
    My own thinking on renewables is incredibly simplistic. If you can buy some property, get the permits, put in a field of mirrors plus a steam turbine, and sell power to PGE at less than they can make it for out of something like natgas, I suggest you get to it.
    All the handwaving that goes along with solar/tidal/wind power makes my arms tired.
    To Mr. Rebane on technology hiring, if you pay more,they will come. A lot of what I think has happened has been a combination of the fact (I believe) that companies are unwilling to train new hires combined with decreasing wages in technology jobs over the decades. The H1B push is just a way to beat prevailing wages.

    Like

  39. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Greg, since the majority of businesses in the Sierra Nevada are sole proprietorships, and under IRS code sole proprietors are treated as individuals, the language is correct. Our membership is actually about 80% sole proprietors, 10% corporate, and 10% local governments and individuals.
    By the way, 2009 was a while ago. Our annual revenue in 2010 was just below $2 million, and is about $3 million this year. When the new data comes out you will see that the percentage of earned income has come up substantively.
    Must just chap your hides that we at SBC are good at what we do!

    Like

  40. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    What a waste of breathe (sic) you guys are. Mean, nasty short and brutish is an appropriate description.

    Like

  41. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    wm is right, it is an ill informed, illogical, mean spirited, ignorant cacophony.
    (By the way, micro-hydro that does not exist today does count toward the renewable portfolio standard)
    http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/NR/rdonlyres/B123F7A9-17BD-461E-AC34-973B906CAE8E/0/ExecutiveSummary33percentRPSImplementationAnalysis.pdf
    This is a good example however of how the right does not read, do research, or think before blowing out their airholes.

    Like

  42. D. King Avatar
    D. King

    D. King–Hydro is not included in the renewable portfolio standard in California. You propensity to assume with out research is showing.
    Steve,
    You are correct; I was looking at the U.S. as a whole.
    Please provide a link to your 20% in today’s utilization of renewables, less hydro, in California.

    Like

  43. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Sure D. KIng–you can find almost everything here, or linked to here.
    http://www.cpuc.ca.gov/PUC/energy/Renewables/
    The links to renewables in place and coming on line are on the right hand side of the page. If you add in what has come on line this year, both from IOU’s and POU’s were are about at 20%. There are at least another 8000 MW of renewables coming on line in the next few months. I just visited one of the facilities down in the desert region that will bring in 750 MW by this August.
    By the way, thanks for acknowledging the correction.

    Like

  44. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    I’m sure the current state government is being berry, berry good to the rent seekers, Steve. Enjoy it while it lasts.
    Fess up. The same time you were claiming to be no expert in public policy on The Union blogsite, you were ‘working on’ legislation.
    Your filings to the IRS says “individuals”. You keep with your claim 700+ businesses, but now that’s 80% sole proprietors, 10% corporate (which isn’t an ‘individual’; do you mean an individual who just happens to work for a corporation?) and 10% “local governments and individuals” which also begs the question… these are just individuals who either work for local governments, or individuals who just don’t work anymore?
    Steve, it’s obvious: you BS for a living.

    Like

  45. Mikey McD Avatar
    Mikey McD

    “I believe that if a government program does not meet its objectives it should go away.” Posted by: stevenfrisch | 03 June 2011 at 11:32 PM
    Greg, care to help me provide a list?
    For starters, The Federal Reserve, Department of Education, Dept of Energy… locally, CARB…

    Like

  46. stevenfrisch Avatar
    stevenfrisch

    Greg, please post the link to John Spencer’s other voices that I commented on, with comments. Tell me specifically what he was referring to.
    Greg it obvious that you are a frustrated A$$hole for a living. Get out in the real world and do something.

    Like

  47. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Steve, you seem to be the one who is frustrated. And an a$$hole to boot.
    I gave you the date, you’re smart (for a meathead, anyway), find it yourself.
    Finally, what part of ‘I don’t own any stocks’ don’t you understand?

    Like

  48. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Back to the SBC tax filings, it appears (assuming they had the same staff levels currently listed), while Steve got $100K, the average employee got something like $31K. I’m guessing “Energy Associate” might be significantly less. What is your compensation in your filing for 2010, Steve, and what is the compensation for your staff?

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