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May 2011
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George Rebane

Is the Great Divide already under way?  RR readers are familiar with the Great Divide discussion in these pages (RR search ‘great divide’).  The basis for the idea of a structural change in these United States is an old one, one that is provided for by our Constitution, and one that was in lively national discussion even before The War for Southern Independence (aka The Civil War).  Today the debate has again become compelling due to the seemingly irreconcilable polarization between the factions of the Left and those of the Right.

BoeingNLRB One ‘solution’, to the indisputable fact that both sides live in their own universe, is a peaceful separation of the two cohorts into a confederated assembly of the current states.  One that would enable open practice of limited government, Founders’ constitutionality, fiscal prudence, and free markets.  The other would continue the current collectivist path to socialism and whatever may follow that folly.  The actual division of territories is among the several problems that need a good-faith dialogue to solve peaceably.

Another and perhaps more serious problem is the asymmetry with which both sides view the Great Divide.  The people on the Right see themselves in a growing bondage of restraints, constraints, unlimited taxation, and loss of liberties.  Their general response is ‘let us go our own way.’  The Left’s general response is ‘oh no you don’t!’, the direct implication being that they would then very quickly run out of OPM, the fuel that always powers progressivism.

But for completeness, I have to add that there are a few progressives who firmly believe that their social order does not need money from other people; they can generate the necessary wealth themselves.  In fact, some of them even claim that it is the Left that is generating the country’s wealth and dragging along the worthless Right.  (Such progressives should be complemented for their keen insight, and the conversation taken to the next stage of how the Great Divide can remove from them the burden of having to carry the Right.)

A useful path toward the Great Divide is the re-establishment of states’ rights.  Removing such constitutional rights from the states has been a proto-progressive passion at least from the time of Lincoln.  Many recognize that the expansion of the Interstate Commerce Act (1887) and central banking (Federal Reserve 1913) have been the prime tools for reducing states to administrative districts of a strong federal government.

Today a last bastion of states’ rights is how they divide themselves into ‘right to work’ and ‘forced union’ states.  For all intents and purposes this already is a step toward the Great Divide, with the proviso that, if properly handled, such a divide may not even be necessary.  But here’s the rub.  The Left is lying to all ignorant enough to believe them that not forcing workers to join unions is actually denying workers their rights.  This twisted logic is one of the insane pillars upon which collectivism proudly stands.


By every measure available, states that allow workers to freely join unions (or not) have out-performed those whose governments use the gun to force union membership.  For that reason companies like Boeing have been actively migrating the growth parts of their business to states where workers are free to choose.  And the unions, correctly sensing a seminal danger to their survival, are pulling out all the stops and paying the right politicians and bureaucrats to bring the full force of government to stop such dangerous actions by America’s corporations.  Laffer and Moore detail these goings on in the 13may11 WSJ (‘Boeing and the Union Berlin Wall’) from where the nearby graphic is purloined.

The hope here is that most Americans have yet to join the ranks of the entitled sheeple, and will see that such union tactics benefit neither them nor the nation.  In the interval Obama’s administration and the Democrats are throwing the National Labor Relations Board into the breach to tell Boeing where it can and cannot build its airplanes.  This is a first, and would mark a giant step forward in the socialization of America.  And, of course, it further motivates those of us on the Right to permanently shed the looney tunes and merrie melodies of the Left.

My feeling is that this is just the beginning of such debates as the Right-leaning states begin to flex their atrophied muscles.  What will power the division is the fiscal hurricane that will soon sweep the land.  Citing an avalanche of references, Mauldin and Tepper (Endgame) point out that we are past the tipping point.  Most of the world’s governments are in terrible fiscal shape and have only “bad and worse choices” consisting of inflate, default, or devalue (a form of inflation).   These governments, including the US, “simply lack the ability to fulfill” their debt, entitlement, and pension obligations.

Having passed the tipping point, the only unknown is how we will hit bottom.  Will it be a repeat of Weimar 1923, Brazil 1999, Argentina 2001, Iceland 2008, or something more draconian that involves restructuring the government or the nation itself?  The known part is that both the Right and the Left will do all they can to convince Americans that it was the other side that caused all the damage, and that fundamental changes to governance must be made if we are to avert a similar disaster.  And depending on the extent of the damage, one of those changes might well be a form of The Great Divide.

Posted in , , ,

458 responses to “An Eerie Feeling re the Great Divide”

  1. Mike Thornton Avatar

    We are whatever Todd says we are, Paul, don’t you know that?

    Like

  2. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    It’s a pretty important question when framing this discussion that we have a common understanding of what words mean. Christian nation =theocracy ???
    What does “Christian Nation” mean ? Is it specific in the Constitution or an interpretation? I’m interested in what our Libertarian contributers have to say.

    Like

  3. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    You atheists are a hoot. Christian nation does not mean a theocracy. It is the real world here not some ogga booga liberal wannabee world. Most of the country believes in the Christian religion, a fact. The rest in a one GOD. Some are non believers.. Now should I s p e l l i t o u t f o r y o u? There is no separation of church and state in the Constitution. Please back up your bogus claim. The Constitution does not allow the establishment of a state religion and does not deny the free exercise of religion. Please read more than the Pagan News and DailyKos. My position is, one more time for, the dense liberals here, teach it all in ethics and social studies and allow it to be placed in a science class as another view of what could be. I watched a science program on the sun last night and there are many things the scientists still don’t understand or can prove. Why are you afraid?

    Like

  4. Mike Thornton Avatar

    It’s amazing how people like Todd turn everything on its head in order to come up with their own preconceived and desired outcome.
    If somebody says (for example) we should teach school kids about the positive contributions that people who are gay have made to California, the “Conservatives” go nuts! Or if somebody wants to build a Masjid somewhere they go crazy over that.
    But when they want to shove their version of culture or religion down the entire country’s throat and somebody says: “Wait a minute.” They say: “What are you afraid of?”
    Stunning!

    Like

  5. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Todd, two questions now, no fair looking…
    How many times is God mentioned in the Constitution?
    How many times is religion mentioned in the Constitution?

    Like

  6. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Todd
    “You atheists are a hoot.”
    You know me well enough to define my spiritual inspiration and I rather resent this. This is really out of bounds. I asked a simple question to clarify and better understand your statement and that was your response.
    “Back up my bogus claim?” What claim? I only asked a question to understand what you meant when you wrote this. “but that doesn’t change the fact we are a Christian nation.”
    You could have accurately said that a majority of Americans are Christians and we wouldn’t be going through this right now but to say we are a “Christian Nation” demands clarification.

    Like

  7. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    edit
    “You don’t know me well enough…..

    Like

  8. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Greg, the term conservative in relation to politics did not even exist when many philosophers now quoted by the modern conservative movement were alive. As a matter of fact the term conservative to describe a political philosophy did not emerge in the US until the late 19th century. I used the term relative to how it is used today. I am fully aware of the political philosophy of classical liberalism. I actually consider myself in many ways more a classical liberal than a modern liberal.
    I think you are nit picking…the point of the original comment was not to argue over the definition of the word conservative, it was to demonstrate that I am not unfamiliar with the works modern conservatives consider important. Those works include the works of the people I listed.

    Like

  9. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Sorry Paul, I thought you told me you were an atheist. I apologize for offending you. Thornton on the other simply supplies a continued vacuous argument on every topic so I have decided to sit back and watch the comedy. Greg, I believe religion is mentioned in the First Amendment. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” and the DOI mentions “Natures God” as well. I wonder Greg, can you tell us of all the signers of the DOI and the Constitution how many were not Christians?

    Like

  10. Mikey McD Avatar
    Mikey McD

    “Does reading a work count if there is no understanding?
    Posted by: Greg Goodknight | 16 May 2011 at 01:54 PM”
    Right on Greg.

    Like

  11. George Rebane Avatar

    MikeT, you hit a nerve when you accuse me of “ducking and dodging” – what have I ducked or dodged?
    (a) Do you believe in intelligent design? Yes.
    (b) Does the concept of Intelligent Design depend on the existence of a “Designer”? Yes.
    (c) Who or what, do you believe that designer to be? An intelligence, beyond my conception, that is superior to mine. The Christian version of such a being comes closest to my understanding, but fits neither the simplistic representations of my detractors (to date), nor are they acceptable to today’s traditional Christians. As a scientist I have come to accept a cohesive amalgam of tenets drawn from Christianity, Vedanta, and Zen that is both compelling and comforting.

    Like

  12. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    A wise man once said. ““The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: Be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.”

    Like

  13. wmartin Avatar
    wmartin

    Well, I can’t say that I expected teleology to pop out of this somehow.
    So, flesh out this intelligent design thing a bit. Does it occur all the time? Is it a local phenomenon? What’s the end game?

    Like

  14. George Rebane Avatar

    Wmartin – we have yet to touch teleology. But give evidence that you have read what I have here written re ID, and we may then productively continue. I don’t want to repeat myself.
    And have I now also been accused of ‘perpetual ignorance’? My, oh my, why do they come?

    Like

  15. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    Its not always about you George! It was an open ended comment.

    Like

  16. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    The answer regarding the number of times “god” is mentioned in the Constitution is zero. It may surprise many to hear the Declaration of Independence, while being one of the most impressive documents in the history of mankind, was essentially the work of one man, Thomas Jefferson (with thanks and a hat tip to John Locke’s 2nd Treatise on Government), who once wrote:
    “Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever; that considering numbers, nature and natural means only, a revolution of the wheel of fortune, an exchange of situation is among possible events; that it may become probable by supernatural interference! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in such a contest.”
    Not exactly mainstream Christian, eh Todd? He was even accused of being an infidel when he ran for the presidency, and spoke fondly of Unitarianism, which at least today seems mostly a church for atheists.

    Like

  17. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    I forgot to mention… the DOI does not have the force of law. It could go away and the Constitution would not change. No law would change.
    It’s arguable that had the DOI been part of the Constitution, the Confederacy would have been allowed by the Northern states to secede, since a key element is the need for consent of the governed, and the Confederacy was based on a rejection of that consent under the Constitution.

    Like

  18. George Rebane Avatar

    Excellent (16 May 2011 at 08:32 PM) point GregG.
    And apologies to SteveF for exposing some thin skin.

    Like

  19. Mike Thornton Avatar

    Thank you for the direct answers, George.
    I totally respect your right to your conception(s)
    The real issue that I’m trying to get to has to do with the mutual respect of differing understandings of the designer or the creator or whatever we might like to call it.
    A lot of what I see on these pages (particularly from Todd) in an incredible level of intolerance and downright prejudice against faiths other than Christianity.
    Of course I mean Islam in particular!
    I can’t help but wonder, Would those who so militantly want ID taught in our public schools allow for an equal treatment and examination of the concept from more than one religious perspective?
    My guess is that for the most part, that answer is “No!”
    I think most people agree that for the majority of people who promote it, “ID” is simply code for “creationism” and what they are really asking for is to have their religious view and only their religious views taught in publicly funded schools.
    They also want their “faith” to basically take the place of scientific inquiry or should I more correctly say to “trump” it, when it’s politically expedient or economically profitable to do so.
    As a “scientist” I would hope that you would reject that effort, since we’ve seen what organized religion has done to stifle scientific inquiry in the past. And to the scientists that dared to challenge the church.
    Many of the mostly conservative people who post on RR (including yourself) are quite often talking about freedom and tyranny. I think you would be hard pressed to say that there could be anything less free or more tyrannical than a nation governed by a “theocracy”, where an offense against the regime is considered an offense against God.
    The current state of affairs in Iran comes to mind.
    So the point is, that there is a tremendous amount of talk about freedom and patriotism here on RR, but for the most part it’s freedom and patriotism according to a pretty narrow and rigid definition. Which, at least in my understanding of the founding principles of this great nation, are hardly free or very patriotic.
    I truthfully don’t know where you stand on these issues?
    Do you support the type of things that Todd says? Because I don’t see you or any of the other “conservatives” that post here, ever saying that you don’t.
    On the other hand you’re all quite willing to criticize the few non-conservatives that post here in not only strong, but inflammatory and degrading terms at the drop of a hat.
    I guess it would be a little easier for me to back off (as I should as well, at times)if it seemed like the basic premise here wasn’t “The conservative way, or the highway.”
    Anyway, that’s my three cents and once again, I do appreciate you directly answering my inquiry.

    Like

  20. George Rebane Avatar

    MikeT, I firmly believe that ID can be examined and is being examined independently from any religious persuasion. I will gladly share and expose my credo to serious enquiry, as I have stated before in thes pages. I invite other readers and commenters to also do so to the extent that they are comfortable. But I don’t want to start comparing and contrasting my credo to that of others who frequent these pages. It would exhaust me and be dubiously productive. I will let the reader do such comparative analysis on their own time and share with us their results.
    Finally, I do urge those interested in my belief system to search these pages. The last four years here have seen a flood of outpourings regarding my experiences and beliefs. To the extent that readers find them of interest, these should be reviewed. And in turn, I should be taken to task on any inconsistencies discovered or reasoning considered in error or too thin. After all, this is the sum and stuff of RR.
    As stated in my tagline, from all of us these are “observations and interpretations of events from the last great century of Man.”

    Like

  21. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    MT writes “On the other hand you’re all quite willing to criticize the few non-conservatives that post here in not only strong, but inflammatory and degrading terms at the drop of a hat.”
    As a non-conservative, I beg to differ. I’ve always been treated civilly here by George and most of the rest, and I can’t recall ANYONE who was ever criticized in “inflammatory and degrading terms” by George, even when inflammatory and degrading terms would have been most appropriate.

    Like

  22. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I find it fascinating that no credence is given to the very men who gave the country to us are for being Christians. Science cannot explain everything and those of little or no faith in things greater than themselves are destined for great disappointment. When non believers such as Thorton chastise the believers I am sure they are full of sadness. The wonder of a Jesus and belief in his life and teachings would be a welcome interlude for the Thornton’s crass view of life. Too bad.

    Like

  23. Steven Frisch Avatar
    Steven Frisch

    I find myself in stunned accordance with Greg’s description of the United State’s as a secular state. He made the very points I am fond of making; that the DOI is not law, and that the Constitution intentionally avoids religious direction.
    I also find myself in awe of the wisdom of the founders, who were predominantly Christian, for their recognition that freedom of religion is one of the bedrock principles of liberty, and to secure that liberty the sovereignty of the individual and their right to apostasy must prevail.

    Like

  24. wmartin Avatar
    wmartin

    So, back to this intelligent design business.
    I spent a few moments, though the magic of Google, looking back over old posts. The primary argument made concerned the difficulties in cooking up comfortable, for living beings at least, laws of physics from whole cloth.
    Whether the earliest days of the universe were managed by someone or the way things currently are is purely a matter of survivor’s bias is an interesting question, but doesn’t seem like the sort of thing you’d bother with in K-12.
    Anyone? Does ID imply activities beyond ingredients for the primordial soup? Perhaps a little work to assist in the invention of eyes or vertebrae? Does the ‘I’ have any special interest in other nations (or planets for that matter)? Is there a goal here? Is the Prime Mover a Republican or Democrat?
    Gotta know.

    Like

  25. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Yes we actually agree the DOI is not law. If it was adopted as part of the law of course it would be enforceable. What it is is the complaints against the King and the words of separation from the King. The Revolutionary War was fought without the Constitution so perhaps the Patriots and the Founders had other “laws” (maybe an unwritten pact?) that were utilized during the conflict (or the AOC not adopted until 1781?). They were mostly Christians yet they were sure to allow others their beliefs by not allowing a “State” church as they had left that behind in Europe. That was a major personal sacrifice for them but does disprove the country is a Christian nation.

    Like

  26. wmartin Avatar
    wmartin

    “and that the Constitution intentionally avoids religious direction.”
    Buncha troublemaking Freemasons.
    As a practical matter, the US is asecular (is that a word?) as all get-out. You can tell from personal writings from different periods that’s it’s less true now than then, but there’s still a lot of powerful church mojo in public life.
    At least the US managed to put a member of one of them furrin churches in office finally. The confessional booth in JFK’s White House must have been the hot ticket in town.

    Like

  27. Mike Thornton Avatar

    Truthfully, Todd, I really can’t understand how you can reconcile your great love for Jesus and what he stood for, with the actions and policies that you advocate for.
    Even the most cursory reading of the New Testament, shows that the “Prince of Peace” stood in direct opposition of nearly 100% of everything you profess.
    Steve, I will agree with you that George does refrain from nasty attacks and he has indeed even backed off the use of “Raghead” which I think is a positive development.
    However, I think you may have a bit of the “asking the fish to describe water” syndrome going on here, when it comes to the actual nature of much of the commentary on RR.
    I would also argue (from my admitted limited experience) that when George does jump in to criticize what he believes is inappropriate commentary or “over the top” rhetoric it is (virtually) never that which comes from the conservatives, who post here.
    I also agree with you that the USA, isn’t a “secular nation”, in that the vast majority of people living here profess a belief in God. To go even farther, for the majority of those the God they profess to believe in is the Christian God, but that is a far cry for the premise that we are a “Christian Nation” or that the Founding Fathers had a plan to allow Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson to be writing the laws that govern our secular lives. It’s also a far cry from the proposal that children in our public schools should be allowed to be propagandized to believe in one religious view. Especially when we all know that many of the people who are pushing for this to happen, fully intend (and have been) using religion as a political weapon.

    Like

  28. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I get a kick out pagans telling us what Christians are or are not. At least Thornton provides us all with a good laugh.

    Like

  29. Mike Thornton Avatar

    (A)I’m not a “pagan” and (b) I’ve actually read the book.
    I’m not telling you what “Christians are or are not”, I’m telling you that when you read the New Testament and what Jesus said was an appropriate way to act in the world and towards other people, it doesn’t match the things you say you believe in.
    It’s just that simple!

    Like

  30. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    By a ‘secular nation’ I did not mean that the vast majority of residents do not believe in a supreme being, I meant that the state is separate from religion. I should have said secular state.

    Like

  31. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Here is a wonderful rendition of Amazing Grace that all pagan’s and atheists should listen t. The tenors and bagpipes will fill you with joy.
    http://www.clarrissegill.com/videoclips/amazing_grace.php
    William Wilberforce (24 August 1759 – 29 July 1833)the man who stopped the slave trade was a evangelical Christian. Amazing Grace was a movie about him and I would recommend the pagan’s and the atheists rent it.Perhaps they can square his beliefs with the present day slave trades by Muslims in Africa.

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  32. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Thornton, give us some Biblical New Testament examples you seem to think you know that will prove your point.

    Like

  33. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Todd, please, an acknowledgment that the primary author of the Declaration of Independence, a past President whose image graces our currency, was not a practicing Christian.

    Like

  34. Mike Thornton Avatar

    Oh Todd, just give it up!
    If I have to sit here and waste my time quoting the Bible to you in order to prove that Jesus was totally on the side of the poor, the downtrodden and the outcast, then you need to go read it. Not me!
    While I’m sure that William Willberforce was a great guy and perhaps even the epitome of a “good” Christian, if you really think that any one man “stopped the slave trade” you’re seriously out of touch.
    And regarding “Muslims being involved in the “present day slave trades” do you have any idea, how much sex trafficking and sexual slavery in taking place right here, right now in the US? I would also be willing to bet that more of those folks claim to be Christians than claim to be Muslims.
    Why can’t you get it through your head that there are indeed bad people, who are Muslim or claim to be Muslim as well as bad people who are Christian or claim to be same?

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  35. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Greg, go here to see why I cannot agree with you.
    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=14285
    Thornton, why can’t you simply give us all a few New Testament verses to back up your claims I am not being Christian-like. The reason is because you are simply a bloviator without substance. You need to read a broader range of books.

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  36. Mike Thornton Avatar

    I’ve got a better idea, Todd.
    Why don’t you go read “The Sermon on the Mount” and then compare it to what you’ve written here and on other comment boards you’ve participated on.
    If you can reconcile the two as being in sync, then more power to you!

    Like

  37. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    “bloviator without substance”
    Todd,
    Thanks for introducing me to this word, I will likely use it in the future when responding to someone who has no substance behind their statements. By the way, I’m still waiting for your explanation of how the war in Iraq saved millions of lives. Calling people you don’t know Pagans also seems a bit bloviatorish.

    Like

  38. Mike Thornton Avatar

    Very interesting that all of a sudden there is a lot of talk about trying to require that “creationism” be taught in New Jersey and Wisconsin public schools.
    The analysis I’m listening to says that this is simply another Republican attempt to create a “wedge” issue, but more importantly to create a “diversion” to distract from what needs to happen regarding taxes, jobs and the economy, social security and medicare
    I agree that this is exactly what is going on here!

    Like

  39. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Paul, read Thornton since he is the biggest bloviator I read since Pelline and Frisch. ]]Paganism is practiced by people all over the planet, so why is that bloviating? If a person is a pagan or an atheist why is that so embarrassing to them? Why can’t they stand up and welcome those terms? Thornton is simply a person who knows nothing of Christianity but has a teeny bit of knowledge about what he thinks it says. I think he is actually just lazy and knows he cannot back up his bloviations here.
    Regarding the saving of millions of lives. I was speaking on the freedom now being experienced by the 12 million or so females who were simply chattel before we kicked out Saddam. They were not people but things.

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  40. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Todd, did you even read the piece you linked?
    “Jefferson was not, in my opinion, a genuine Christian. In 1813, after his public career was over, Jefferson rejected the deity of Christ. Like so many millions of church members today, he was outwardly religious, but never experienced the new birth that Jesus told Nicodemus was necessary to enter the kingdom of Heaven.”
    It seems to make my point for me.

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  41. Mike Thornton Avatar

    Todd, I’m pretty sure that a “Pagan” and an “Atheist” are actually two different things.
    Since you’re such an expert, why don’t you break down the “Sermon on the Mount” and show us how the policies you advocate and the attitude you bring to the debate coincide with the teachings of Jesus.
    And while we’re at it, where are the jobs, Todd?

    Like

  42. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    Thornton, the jobs are in Texas.

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  43. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Greg, yes I read the piece and it mirrors what I have said.
    Grg, good comeback on the Thornton. One thing about his ilk, they never answer the question..

    Like

  44. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    Back to the Great Divide, and ignoring the irony in the point that Todd is touting Wilberforce as ‘ending slavery’ when we fought a war 30 years after his death that took more than 600,000 lives, I still have not received an answer to my question from a couple of days ago. If one of the seminal desires of people touting the Great Divide is the wish to live with people of similar culture, values and ideology, how does one separate themselves without denying others their basic constitutional rights?
    The problem I have with the theory is that it is pie in the sky nonsense. There is no way in a modern society to achieve it without backtracking on our core values of personal liberty as Americans. This is why I describe it as a fundamentally un-American proposal.

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  45. Mike Thornton Avatar

    Good points, Steve!
    I guess my question is, that from where I sit the so-called “conservatives” are actively undermining progress on issues that are crucial to the survival of the country and they have no intention of stopping until they remake America into what they believe it should be, and that (imho) is “fundamentally un-American”. So what do we do?

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  46. Mike Thornton Avatar

    Texas has the same unemployment rate as New York
    8.3%

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  47. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    Gosh Mike, I guess we just have to fight these ideas tooth and nail, like the patriotic, pro-constitution Americans we are!
    My father, who taught American history, taught me, that if you love this country you have to struggle to renew it every generation. I remember reading Gibbons The Decline and Fall of Roman Empire with him in my teens. Rome fell when it’s citizens stopped defending it’s exceptionalism. We all must defend that exceptionalism in our own way.

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  48. Mike Thornton Avatar

    I’m up for the fight, Steve.
    I just think it’s important to realize what it is we’re up against and have some idea what the end game is.
    Part of their agenda is to make it impossible to have a “free and fair” election that they could actually lose.
    All you have to do is look at the vote “caging” that has gone on, “Citizens United” and the breaking of unions as a way to de-fund the Democratic party to realize that if they are actually allowed to take power they have no intention of giving it up, ever again….
    So, lets say, just for sake of argument, that what I’m saying here has some legitimacy to it.
    Then what?

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  49. D. King Avatar
    D. King

    “Gosh Mike, I guess we just have to fight these ideas tooth and nail, like the patriotic, pro-constitution Americans we are!”
    LMAO!

    Like

  50. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Speaking of Texas, it has the highest percentage of medically uninsured, around 27%. A model for the future California needs to emulate.
    Mass. has by far the lowest thanks to Romney care, around 5%.
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/122387/uninsured-highest-percentage-texas-lowest-mass.aspx

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