Rebane's Ruminations
March 2011
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George Rebane

Gadhafi President Obama has made it clear that he wants the Arabs to view the US as being just one of the boys the UN mustered to take on Moammar Gadhafi.  Not only that, but we’re in the back of the pack somewhere right behind the French, Brits, and Italians.  That is our new inclusive and multi-lateral ‘by your leave’ foreign policy.  Of course, no Arab in his most charitable moment believes that; Obama’s audience is the addled of America.

Obama has skillfully(?) created a power vacuum in the Mediterranean for others to fill.  And they have put on a mighty charade to do so.  The French even had one of their jets draw first blood, and the British are there with their handful of fighters (but they couldn’t muster their carrier to make it, even though it would have been a tremendous opportunity for some in theater training).  Actually, nothing would successfully move toward the Libyan beach without America’s presence and support.

One of our eleven carrier task groups led by CVN USS Enterprise is operating off Libyan shores, along with the amphibious warfare group centered on the large deck USS Kearsarge assault carrier.  Two of our Tomahawk capable nuclear subs are also in theater.  And of the 124 Tomahawks fired so far, 122 were launched from US Navy ships.  But we do hear that the French, and maybe the Brits, are doing some independent targeting for political purposes.  This may explain tonight’s report of Moammar’s Tripoli compound coming under missile attack – an attack that the Pentagon denied having any part in .


Obama’s strategy seems to have been to get there at the last possible moment after making sure that 1) “pivotal statements” had been issued by the Arab League (who are now busy retracting them), 2) the UN Security Council had wordsmithed a resolution, and 3) our European friends were already there with their dozen jets.  All this was to confirm in the world’s mind that this participation was “not in America’s interests”, but merely to do the right thing for the Libyan people within the imprimatur of the international community.  And maybe, just maybe, that’s actually what our commander-in-chief was really thinking (Lord save us all).

While all this is going on, we have reporters who still don’t know any basics of modern warfare delivering silly reports from the balconies of Tripoli, and Chris Wallace on Fox News asking Admiral Mike Mullen (Chmn Joint Chiefs of Staff) political questions that no military man would dream of answering.  Just once I would like to hear one of these high ranking flag officers respond ‘Chris, your question requires me to second guess my civilian political bosses.  You should know enough about how our government and military work to not go there during such interviews.  Were you trying to sandbag me, or do you have extra time to fill so I can deliver some lame sidestep answer?’  Maybe that would bring such interviews back into the adult realm.

Meanwhile President Obama is making it clear that we are not there to take out Gadhafi, the one whom he identified as a rogue and no longer “the legitimate” leader of Libya.  Well then, what are we going to do if we let him survive as the leader over some part of that North African desert?  Will this be Saddam Hussein and Gulf One revisited?  Even as Moammar the Mighty surrounds himself with a protective cordon of women and children who ‘volunteer’ to give their lives for him, all of the Arab world will view our letting the sumbich live as another confirmation of American weakness.  And for this we will pay a price.

Were I king, there would be an immediate $10M reward to whoever can deliver Gadhafi’s head in a basket, while we make sure that both the rebels and his own security people have an equal opportunity to collect the money.  And were we to continue involving ourselves in such two-bit adventures, I’d make damn sure that we would loudly confirm what everyone already believes and knows – that America does act in its own best interest on the world stage.  It’s time to climb back into the front seat.

[21mar2011 update]  RR reader and commenter Mikey McD included a link to a telling four-year-old interview the Boston Globe did with then Senator Barack Obama that John Galt, another reader and commenter, recommended for all to read and feared its removal from the newspaper’s website.  To allay such fears I have abstracted that interview, and you can download a pdf of it here – Download Obama22dec07Q&A.

Posted in , , ,

72 responses to “Libya – Driving from the Back Seat (updated 21mar2011)”

  1. Greg Goodknight Avatar
    Greg Goodknight

    There are some Congresscritters on the left talking about impeachment; apparently the Pres consulted the UN, the French, the Brits and the Arab League but forgot all about the Congress.

    Like

  2. George Rebane Avatar

    On Fox News with Chris Wallace today Sen Jack Reed (D-RI) was asked about this omission. He tried to put a good face on it and failed miserably. There are a lot of funny things going on in Washington under this community organizer and his intimate band socialists.

    Like

  3. Bob Hobert Avatar
    Bob Hobert

    Greg,
    Q. Why would a wannabe dictator consult Congress?
    A. Doing so just slipped his mind, as he has only contempt for our constitutional government.

    Like

  4. D. King Avatar
    D. King

    Wow, I’m starting to feel sorry for the hard left in this county. They’ve been ridden more times than the Tea Cups at Disneyland. No, were not leading in Libya, were not trying to take out Gadhafi (that’s illegal). Yeah, it’s the French / Brits, doing all the illegal things, not us…really. I suppose you reap what you sow.

    Like

  5. Russ Steele Avatar

    War by committee is not an effective strategy, especially when one of the committee is the French. I am reminded to the phase “If you break it you own it.” The French do not have the staying power or the balls to stay committed and the Brits are broker than we are. So, who is paying for this mess? Who is going to pay for the rebuilding? Who will lead the rebuilding? We have been snookered into doing the French’s dirty work, and we are going to end up paying the price. America’s incompetence is on display for everyone to see.

    Like

  6. Russ Steele Avatar

    Heritage Morning Bell this morning: Spectator-in-Chief
    The U.S. needs proactive long-term strategies that look ahead of events rather than trail them. Unfortunately we are getting the exact opposite from our Commander in Chief. President Obama is putting the U.S. military to work at the behest of the world rather than leading the world. Brit Hume accurately described this yesterday: “This is not leadership, this is followership.” In two major areas now the President has voted “present” in the last two weeks: on the budget, where he is AWOL, and on Libya, where he has purposely chosen to follow even as our troops do the heavy lifting.

    Like

  7. George Rebane Avatar

    One could, I suppose, think that Libyan reconstruction will be paid for by Libyan oil whose revenues will stay in the country under a new government. But that kind of thinking is just a laugh line on the Daily Show.

    Like

  8. John Galt Avatar

    Even Democrats are realizing that electing Obama was a big mistake. Whether we should or shouldn’t be involved in Libya’s strife is a separate matter from whether or not BO should have consulted Congress before engaging our military.
    He should be reprimanded for not consulting congress on this action.

    Like

  9. D. King Avatar
    D. King

    Look, this can’t work! The fatal mistake is the assumption that once hostilities are over, a benevolent democracy will spontaneously combust into existence. Ha…no way, not going to happen! The U.N. is now filled with left leaning bureaucrats whose only demonstrated ability is to create policies that fund the U.N. You can’t run the world from a remote location.
    This will end badly!

    Like

  10. Mikey McD Avatar

    “The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.”
    Barack Obama, 2007 Boston.com – Special reports – News: see #2 http://www.boston.com/news/politics/2008/specials/CandidateQA/ObamaQA/

    Like

  11. Mikey McD Avatar

    My prayer is that the Libyan people don’t hate me for the unjust actions of ‘my president’ (Obama the Nobel Peace Prize Winner)…
    * Were we attacked? No.
    * Is it our business? No.
    * Does it affect us? No.
    * Can we afford it? No.
    * Did Congress declare war? No.
    I hope the anti-war crowd does not lay hypocritically fallow.
    Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the United States Constitution, sometimes referred to as the War Powers Clause, vests in the Congress the exclusive power to declare war.

    Like

  12. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    Did it occur to you thats why he waited and is following maybe, then he can say we were just helping our friends out – just a police action kinda

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  13. Mikey McD Avatar

    98% of the ordnance (122 of 124 missiles) were courtesy of the red,white, blue.. just helping out friends!?! Imagine the field day our media would be having with Bush; Hypocrites!
    Dear Lame Stream Media, unprovoked, unconstitutional war is either good or evil; which is it?
    bonus question… what exactly does Obama get the peace award for; continuing Bush’s wars or for starting additional war(s)?

    Like

  14. John Galt Avatar

    We all better read that link Mikey posted before Obama has his Q & A with the Boston Globe removed and stored next to his birth certificate.
    (Thanks Mikey; looks like you’re well equipped to defeat Obama in 2012. )

    Like

  15. George Rebane Avatar

    Thank you MikeyM and JohnG, to circumvent such tampering with the record, I have made that interview available as a download in the 21mar11 update to this post.

    Like

  16. Russ Steele Avatar

    Oh, my how different things look when Obama is at the other end of the big stick. The next Republican Candidate should use this bit of history whack Candidate Obama for his lack of foresight and integrity. This little bit of history is most likely what caused the huge delay, after declaring the Libyan leader must go, as Obama’s political minions had to find a way for him to blame French and the Brits. I predict we will soon be hearing Obama declare: “The French and Brits made me do it” Or, some similar foolishness nonsense.

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  17. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    I’m still not sure what the objective really is – apparently not to take him out – but he has to step down, I may be a retarded redneck screaming rock ape but I still don’t know what the end game is. Another situation where you can’t tell the good guys from the bad guys and Gadifi is supposed to go where and how?

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  18. John Galt Avatar

    Thanks George.

    Like

  19. bill tozer Avatar
    bill tozer

    I think Obama played it right.. Radioactive Japan, Tomahawk missiles fired on Libya. Sounds like the perfect time to visit Rio.

    Like

  20. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    Defiant Qaddafi Boosts Rebel Assault
    what could go wrong
    the liberial democrats always think they can make anything better, from mother nature to human nature – always ends in = epic fail

    Like

  21. John Galt Avatar

    A true leader would want to be on hand to make a difference. It’s as if Obama can’t handle the stress and needs a distraction.

    Like

  22. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Perhaps he should adopt the Bush strategy used in Iraq and Afghanistan. Get in and stay indefinitely, spend billions of dollars ant thousands of American lives. Now that’s a plan to be admired.

    Like

  23. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Let’s hear it for the Flipper. Now this is the type of Conservative leadership we need.
    This was Newt March 11th on Fox News
    “Gingrich, speaking with Fox News’ Greta Van Susteren last night, said that the U.S. should “exercise a no fly zone this evening” and that the U.S. should proceed unilaterally. On forming a coalition with other nations, he said, “The United States doesn’t need anybody’s permission. We don’t need to have NATO, who frankly, won’t bring much to the fight. We don’t need to have the United Nations.”
    This was Newt yesterday on Politico
    Newt Gingrich blasted the decision to attack Libya Sunday afternoon as “opportunistic amateurism without planning or professionalism.”
    “It is impossible to make sense of the standard for intervention in Libya except opportunism and news media publicity,” Gingrich said in a statement to POLITICO, his first public comments since President Barack Obama gave the go-ahead order on Saturday.
    Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0311/51625.html#ixzz1HO5pyl7M

    Like

  24. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Palin/Huckabee

    Like

  25. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    2 things Paul, yes it is kinda the same as Iraq and Af, we haven’t found any end and don’t even know what anybody wants it to be?? I posted I can’t figure it out, and reading the world news nobody can figure out what we are trying accomplish – so what is the exit strategy when you don’t know when you have accomplished the objective – which is unknown.
    Newt is saying if the US acted alone at least we would maybe have control and would have some strategy – although I don’t think we should have done anything in the first place. We already have done enough damage in Egypt – leave well enough alone after that fiasco, doesn’t anybody in DC have some duct tape.
    Obama is foriegn policy nightmare, paul you want to throw rocks at Bush – just wait, this will be a good dose of liberial meets reallity coming up – it ain’t that easy.
    Definition: Duct Tape, has a light side and a dark side and holds the universe together – just say’in
    alternate use: keeping President from saying or doing any more dumb stuff

    Like

  26. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Ah yes…..Sara Palin Now there’s a foreign policy expert. This non finisher for a single term of Governor in a small state who’s entire experience in foreign affairs consists of negotiating crabbing territories with the Russians is just what we need in this complex world. Now the Huckster is a pretty good Bass player and that might win my vote. I know the value of someone who can hold down the bottom line in a band. You can’t distract a good bass player.

    Like

  27. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    As compared to your community organizer/activist with no executive experience (two years in the Senate) and a lifelong Senator who never had a job. Yep, you got us man, your people are truly qualified. Not!

    Like

  28. Sarah H Avatar
    Sarah H

    I will join the “shocked” crowd that Emery is pro-war when a dem is in office.

    Like

  29. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    My jury is out on this matter. I welcome speculation on the extent of human suffering and death that may have occurred without Gaddafi being restrained so if the purpose of this intervention is to protect innocent people from slaughtered perhaps it’s justified. However, we did nothing to help the people of Rwanda, for example, because there was nothing of value in that region that was in our national interestt so we observed a controlled burn to occur that cost thousands of lives.
    I serious question our true motives in this matter. If stopping human suffering was our main interest in using our military than we don’t have a very good record.
    The way the US (yes under Obama) and Britain sat back and allowed the release of the Lockerbie bomber Abdel Baset al-Megrahi a couple of years ago for “humanitarian reasons ” (he reportedly had cancer) shows that there are powerful players in the mix and it’s all about oil contracts in play with Gaddafi’s regime . Perhaps the greater good is served by intervening but I l question the motive.
    One final thought. How would the Repubs have positioned if we did nothing and it led to the slaughter of thousands ? My guess is that we’ll have an early out on this one and we won’t have 60,000 troops on the ground eight years after declaring “mission accomplished,”

    Like

  30. Michael Anderson Avatar
    Michael Anderson

    This will go quick.
    It is only about Libya oil. If you think otherwise, you are delusional. K Street and Wall Street are on board. Everyone’s blog ramblings here were completely disregarded before you even thought about typing. You have nothing to say. Go back to sleep.

    Like

  31. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I wonder how you liberals would deal with a Libya that was say, a major source of the world’s food? You bet oil plays a part in many decisions because it makes the world work. Why wouldn’t it? Rwanda was a fiasco because Clinton was indecisive. He learned his lesson though and intervened in the Balkans to help prevent genocide and we had no strategic reason there. I have always given him kudo’s for that. You liberals seem to be simply complainers and you never even have an answer to our place in the world as the most powerful country left standing. We on the right believe that being the biggest means more responsibility and sometimes we need to be the adult country in a sea of children. so, go back to sleep and dream of unicorns. Let the adults alone and stop whining.

    Like

  32. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Todd
    Todd,
    Why do you make everything into a Liberal-Conservative perspective? This issue is much more complex than that. I am confused in this issue about what the right thing to do is. Certainly looking at recent history and the decisions made in Iraq and Afghanistan are important considerations. The world is changing rapidly and the torrent of rebellion in this region is resulting in quick decisions that may not have every detail right. The question of the greater good is always in my mind but the true motives of the powers that be are always intruding in my decision.

    Like

  33. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    I do not disagree with your last comment here. I just read the comments you have made previously here and have derived my responses to them. The world is a fast changing place in some areas and is mired in the past in others. How fast should we respond when genocide starts Paul? How is it you have an issue with oil and it’s place in the viability of the planets advances? I am surprised you did not answer my view of how would you react and what would you do if the food supply was at risk from tyranny.

    Like

  34. D. King Avatar
    D. King

    I can’t get my head around this one.
    Oil?…yes. Freedom / Democracy?…I don’t think so.
    The whole Lockerbie / BP oil connection makes more sense.
    The belief that you can devastate an army, but don’t have to put boots on the ground only leads to a power vacuum and chaos. That is the mistake we made in Iraq… and bad intel. I don’t see this ending well. Todd’s point about the Balkans is correct. We didn’t wait, we put civilian cops in to keep order and train locals.

    Like

  35. George Rebane Avatar

    I confess that my interest in the Libyan intervention peaks with the notions of 1) America acting in its (national) self-interest, and 2) President Obama’s circumvention of Congress and the Constitution. In the latter case I invite perusing the points brought up by Douglas Feith here – http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703858404576214412589911054.html?mod=WSJ_Opinion_LEFTTopOpinion

    Like

  36. D. King Avatar
    D. King

    I think it’s more likely number 2 George.
    Just like the Law of the Sea Treaty and NOAA’s fishing regulations.

    Like

  37. D. King Avatar
    D. King

    Law of the Sea Treaty
    From: March 15, 2004
    “The Law of the Sea Treaty originated in the 1970s as part of the United Nations’ redistributionist agenda known as the “New International Economic Order.””
    “…the Law of the Sea Treaty was designed to transfer wealth and technology from the industrialized states to the Third World.”
    So George, Patents, Oil, food…ect.
    http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2567
    As to B.P. and Libya
    http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20110317-712221.html

    Like

  38. D. King Avatar
    D. King

    “BP admits ‘lobbying UK over Libya prisoner transfer scheme but not Lockerbie bomber’”
    “Separately, the European Union’s top energy official said he would look to impose a ban on new deepwater oil and gas drilling in Europe.”
    http://tinyurl.com/35zlug5
    Your take?

    Like

  39. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George
    You cited Douglas Feith as a source of direction in understanding this issue. I’m sure you are aware of his role in the campaign of lies that led to the infamous WMD justification for the war in Iraq. I can provide you with lots of information about him if you like. He was part of the original group of Neocons (The Project for the New American Century) that so famously wished for a “fortuitous event such as Pearl Harbor” to justify our involvement in Iraq.
    Remember the Office of Special Plans under the Bush Administration?
    Are you sure you want trumpet this guy?

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  40. George Rebane Avatar

    Expose away Paul. I cited Feith as an author of an article that raised issues that stand on their own feet. The usual tack of going after someone as a persona that bears little on what is now being said is a staid approach which I have addressed just recently in these comment threads.

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  41. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Fair enough George. I admit going after the messenger but I have little interest in the opinion of one of the architects of the war in Iraq which will go down in history as one of the greatest foreign policy blunders in American history. Feith and his ilk had no respect whatsoever for American law. You have to give some consideration for the source of opinion to expect it to have any credibility. Would you seriously consider an argument for example for national health care that came from Ralph Nader without being affected by your opinion of the credibility and intent of the writer?

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  42. George Rebane Avatar

    Paul, I consider Mao to be one of the most evil people ever to have lived, especially for the total callousness with which he killed (estimates vary) over 100 million of his own people during peace time in a political make-over of China. But were he to write a serious treatise on warfare using indigenous irregular forces, I would still pay attention.
    Feith cited chapter and verse instead of “opinions”, even if were the evil purveyor of WMD rumors that got us into Gulf2, his treatment of Obama’s entry into Libya is worth consideration on the merits of his points alone. BTW, they are now being picked up by everyone of every stripe.

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  43. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Wee defended George. I’ll have more later.

    Like

  44. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    Dear Mr Emery:
    I will stand corrected after reading about the statements of Newt, you were correct he did flip flop. Frankly he lost me when he pandered to the Ethanol Industry in Iowa months ago, just for the record.
    It is the worest governement policy in the entire world bar none, 30% of our corn crop goes to make an inefficent fuel nobody wants – and we pay big subsides – worse than the solar fiasco’s in europe.
    I can understand everyone’s bewilderment with the Libya issue, and I also agree with the fact that it is not a Lib/Con issue always.
    This has been a good thread and discussion – especially between Paul and Todd, as I said eariler I have no clue what the purpose or the end game is and apparently I’m not alone.

    Like

  45. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    Thanks Dixon for appreciating the difficulty of he situation
    As much as I oppose the squandering of our military in settling regional scraps I believe the greater good may be accomplished in this matter by preventing what appeared to be the slaughter of thousands who no longer had the ability to defend themselves. Time will tell if the action will help in improving the long term situation of the people. In this case it does coincide with strategic American interests which allows it to happen but it still might be for the better.
    As a teenager I recall the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 and couldn’t understand why they received no help from the so called freedom loving West.

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  46. George Rebane Avatar
    George Rebane

    Paul, serious people – commentators and political analysts – spreading a lot of ink attempting to discover how our Libyan in involvement “does coincide with strategic American interests”. They admit failure in their efforts, and most are asking President Obama to set the matter straight in a talk from the Oval Office. Can you outline how our strategic interests are being served here?
    Re the 1956 Hungarian revolution – do you still have a question about the reason for our providing no material help to the freedom fighters?

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  47. Mikey McD Avatar
    Mikey McD

    We should not be/never should have been involved in Libya. Will they [Libya] run to our aid when we get fed up with the BS in Washington and start marching?
    Support the red cross and drop water, blankets and food; not bombs.
    The ‘anti-war’ crowd are hypocrites (its ok for the socialist nobel prize winner to wage an unconstitutional war but not for a repub).
    Imagine the difference we could have made to spend the Iraq war budget on ‘anti-oil’ energy technologies.

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  48. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    George
    I can justify this on humanitarian principles that it serves the greater good to intervene to prevent the slaughter of perhaps thousands because I don’t believe Qaddafi would have any restraint once his army is unleashed. To reverse the question then do you think we should sit back and do nothing and allow Qaddafi free range to kill thousands of people trying to free themselves from a brutal dictator?
    I did support our initial invasion of Afghanistan to destroy the base camps of the perpetrators of 9/11 but not the indefinite occupation. Our invasion of Iraq was based on lies and deception.
    My support of the Hungarian Revolution was based on the youthful idealism of America coming to the rescue of freedom loving people in the world. That idealism led to me being a Barry Goldwater supporter and ended with the Viet Nam war.
    From a summary by Stephen Hurst
    “The military intervention begs many questions and illustrates once again the stark inconsistences in an American foreign policy that tries to balance democratic ideals against pragmatic national interests. The U.S. 5th Fleet base in Bahrain allows the United States to project military power in the Persian Gulf, Red Sea and Indian Ocean. ”
    Why else would it be there? We coddled Qaddafi for years because he controls the oil mainly distributed by BP. We went so far as to sit by and allow the release of the Lockerbie bomber Abdel Baset al-Megrahi without a wimper. You really need to look into that. I speculate that we lost confidence in our ability to control him and decided to support those against him to hedge our bet. That qualifies as a vital national interest that would justify intervention for humanitarian reasons. As I stated before, if this same situation were presented in a country with no essential resources we would have remained spectators.
    You better believe the anti Obama crown would have taken the opposite view if he would have done nothing and allowed the slaughter without intervention. My support is very qualified based on an early exit. As I stated before, we’ll see if eight years later we have 50.000 ground troops in Libya like we do in Iraq.
    Mikey , I see recognize the constitutional questions concerning the Iraq war. Did you speak out against it at the time and join in the efforts to bring our troops home ?

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  49. Paul Emery Avatar
    Paul Emery

    One other note:
    In issues such as this it serves us to disregard the constraints of Liberal-Conservative, Republican-Democrat dogma and express personal views. It makes for a much more detailed and interesting conversation.

    Like

  50. Mikey McD Avatar
    Mikey McD

    Paul, when have you known me to keep my opinion to myself :)? Yes, I have (and continue) to speak out against the Iraq/Libya wars.

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