Rebane's Ruminations
December 2010
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George Rebane

Most people consider government subsidies to be the transfer of some form of assets – cash/stuff/services that the government owns - from the government to the subsidized entity.  Not so the liberal of whatever coloration.  In their book the government effectively owns everything, and we the people are allowed to husband and use some things that government owns for a restricted interval that the government deems proper.

Therefore according to their logic, if the government could, say, tax someone or some corporation more than it is doing now, then those stipulated additional taxes not collected are termed by the lefties as just another government subsidy.  The same goes for the assessment of fees by the government and its agencies.  Since such minds can conceive of no limits to the tribute government can exact in taxes or fees, the amount of such subsidy can be anything that the progressive hand cares to write down.

Given that form of twisted logic, a liberal can claim that you are receiving any given amount of government subsidy if they feel that you should pay that amount as additional tribute, and are not now doing so.  The same, of course, goes for liberal claims of corporate subsidies.  And here the situation really gets wild and woolly.  Given the long history and complexity of collusion between government and industry groups, corporations, and organized labor, the progressive mind sees no end to subsidies that government continues to give to industry.

It all depends on how far back you want to go and which pieces of legislation or regulations you want to include in toting up the package of subsidies that you will argue industry has been getting.  The main thing to remember, if one attempts to understand the liberal mind, is that it all belongs first and foremost to the collective or government.  With this in mind, their talk of subsidies all makes ‘perfect sense’.

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20 responses to “The Liberal Mind – Government Subsidies”

  1. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Very true George. The USA has created a huge industry of rent seekers and their impact on the budget is totally out of proportion with what we taxpayers receive from them. I firmly believe these people running the subsidized rent seeking scams cannot make it on their own and require the assistance. If it isn’t this form of welfare, we taxpayers would be sending conventional welfare checks.
    I would suggest the country needs a cutoff to grants and loans and other subsidies and let the chips fall where they may. Rent seekers like SBC and Exxon-Mobil should be cutoff and maybe we can get our country back to solvency.

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  2. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    George, lets’ start with corportate subsidies for… “farming”.
    What “farmers” get the vast majority of farm subsidies? Well that would be corporate “farmers”. I use the term “farmers” becasue they are really corporate machines that grow and raise on a massive scale, not family farmers, not small local farmers, they are mega corporate “famers” and “growers”.
    Taxpayers have been giving them a lot of money for a very long time… why? And what about tabaco “farmers”, why do taxpayers give a lot of money to corporate tobaco farmers?
    Corporations get a LOT of subsidies, direct and indirect.
    I hope that some of your posters here respond in a respectful, factual way and not another batch of personal attacking, name calling and ranting. I hope the responses can address the this issue… we will see.

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  3. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Be careful George, we wouldn’t want to upset Baja.
    I disagree with Baja about farmers though. If anything is to be subsidized it should be food and water at the very least. The Great Depression proved that farming is different than most other things. Without cheap food there would be many riots. Without water, there would be no food. I do think there should be a review and then a dismantling of the rest of the of Ag and any subset of that department contains a grant division. Billions of dollars wasted. Stop it for a while.subsidies. Just go the Dept.

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  4. Barry Pruett Avatar

    Whoa Enos: Instead of getting rid of subsidies that have been around for over 80 years, why not focus on new wasteful subsidies that are being created out of whole cloth right now. I would prefer that we stop creating more subsidies (subsidizing green that won’t pencil out) – then deal with reforming the traditional subsidies.

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  5. George Rebane Avatar

    SteveE, yes indeed corporations do get actual cash returns from the government in addition to favorable markets and sometimes even protection from competition. We are in violent agreement there. How and where should we put an end to that?
    But my piece points out the claim that an individual or corporation does not pay enough tax is also a government subsidy, this is unique to the collectivist mindset. Many of these same people also believe that corporations actually pay taxes, when what happens is that such costs are passed on to customers and serve only to inhibit the company’s growth and its supply of whatever goods/services it provides. You can never increase the supply or improve the product by taxing it more – but that’s a topic for another ‘The Liberal Mind’ post.

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  6. Mikey McD Avatar

    Obama says a lot during this Sept 20 2010 liberal rally on CNBC. In answering Rick Santelli’s question about deficit spending Obama says the following about extending Bush’s tax cuts…. “WE CAN’T GIVE $700 billion dollars AWAY to America’s wealthiest people.” Read that statement a few times… Obama believes that the wages and earnings earned by Americans are the property of the government! Tax cuts are not giving government money to tax payers, tax cuts allow the tax payer to keep more of THEIR wages and earnings.
    http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1595612535&play=1

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  7. An Idea Avatar
    An Idea

    “Since such minds can conceive of no limits to the tribute government can exact in taxes or fees, the amount of such subsidy can be anything that the progressive hand cares to write down.”
    Bad premise.
    But, It’s all about jobs; the government employees’. Senators, Presidents, Secrataries — they all manipulate the electorate to keep the government manna flowing into their pocketbooks. Whichever side of the electorate thinks it’s winning, they’re just dupes of the ruling class — the clerks, the cops, the vice superintendants of the school board. “When custodians of the public trust elevate themselves to heights above that of their populace, they have betrayed that trust and must be removed.”

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  8. George Rebane Avatar

    Pray tell Idea, why is that a “bad premise”?

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  9. Steve Enos Avatar
    Steve Enos

    Barry says… “Instead of getting rid of subsidies that have been around for over 80 years, why not focus on new wasteful subsidies”.
    Yikes! that’s some twisted logic! So if a subsidy has been around for a long time we should not address it? So just keep giving away taxpayers money to corporate “farmers” and the corporate tobaco grows and just keep going down that road?
    And Todd responds that providing subsidies to “farmers” and for water is dandy?
    These two responses are 100% inconsistent with true conservative values.

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  10. Mikey McD Avatar

    I am against true subsidies (whereby corporations, individuals or union buy monomoplies and government aid/collusion); farmers, schools, green tech, chambers of commerce, business councils, etc. Review Davy Crockett’s “Not Yours To Give” speech.
    A reasonable man cannot accept the liberal mindset which Rebane described brilliantly whereby my labor, property, liberty are somehow ‘owned’ by the collective. Obama’s quote from above shows this enslaving ideology of the progressive.
    There is not an activity of man that our government has not found a way to tax.

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  11. An Idea Avatar
    An Idea

    “such minds can conceive of no limits” Obviously liberals do have limits as to the amount they believe we can be taxed; it’s the precise value about which we all argue (interminably). High, low, flat, progressive… Subaru, Chevy…
    Who’s trying to redistribute your wealth? Government employees through entitlements. Think Bell California is the exception and not the rule? Think they’re not glad we’re chasing our tails while they’re funding their pensions?

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  12. George Rebane Avatar

    Not at all SteveE; Barry didn’t say to ignore such subsidies, only that we first stop piling on additional subsidies. When the boat is filling with water faster than you can bail – fix the leak first, then bail out the water that is already in the boat. The same with illegal aliens – secure the border first, then decide how to deal with those already in the country. However, you do demonstrate that this is a turn of logic that might not be accessible to all ideologies.

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  13. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    I would be glad to see an end to all subsidies by the Feds. All earmarks, give aways, special projects, welfare, food stamps, everything except that which is spelled out by the constitution. That would be the end to most of the corruption and baloney coming from Washington. The state govts could be as generous as they feel with the knowledge that they can not print money and they will receive no bailouts from the feds. I was watching a lot of CNN on Friday and was particularly amused at Jeff Sach’s urgent plea on behalf of the poor, wretched billionaires that really want to pay more taxes but just can’t due to evil Republicans not letting them do so. Eliot Spitzer sat there like a bobble head just agreeing with the terrible distress that faces the wealthy today. Eliot was of course, going on about the inequity of wealth distribution and how the govt needs to step in and even it out. The best line of the day must go to M Moore for opining that “we need to re-instate the inheritance tax because it doesn’t affect anyone anyway.” OK Michael, whatever you say.

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  14. George Rebane Avatar

    Idea – the limit referred to here is an amount or rate certain. It is not the process by which the left can keep raising taxes indefinitely. For example, many conservative think tanks have identified the limit of total taxes on a nation’s GDP to be in the 12-15% range for generating maximum tax revenues. Today we are at a stifling 23+% level, and historically we have been at the 18-19% level.

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  15. Dixon Cruickshank Avatar
    Dixon Cruickshank

    In responce to Scott – we would have to eliminate the the minimun wage for that to work and just turn capitalism loose. I don’t think after the creation of the welfare state that is really possible anymore. The dependence of so much of the population on the governemet would have to be over a long period of time, just as the dependence was.

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  16. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    I would love to see the end of minimum wage laws. I simply want a free market for both capital and labor. I would agree that it is highly unlikely that we will ever see this. The alternative is the death spiral we are now in. Ever increasing numbers of uneducated, whining,non-producers demanding all of their needs to be met by the govt. We already know the ending many times over. Just look at history. For some reason, there are folks that think that the USA is some how exempt from reality. That we can create wealth out of thin air and have our energy needs met by good intentions. Everyone will play nice, if we just talk to them politely.

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  17. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    Scott, absolutely correct.

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  18. Steve Frisch Avatar
    Steve Frisch

    There was never a ‘free market’ for both capital and labor. It is a libertarian fantasy.

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  19. Todd Juvinall Avatar
    Todd Juvinall

    No, it is real.

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  20. Scott Obermuller Avatar

    Steve, I said I wanted a free market, I didn’t say it existed. There is no perfect anything and we should never allow the desire for the perfect to get in the way of striving towards it as a goal. We are going towards more and more govt control over the market and labor and we have nothing but disaster as the result. Even China sees a need for some semi-free market to stave off the ruinous ways of the past. The way that the average citizen reacts to the thought of being responsible for their own lives and well-being is proof enough of the damage that is being done. We are devolving into a helpless and pathetic basket case of a country. Anyone who thinks there is a magic spell that will save our nation is the one living a fantasy.

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